I have a propane forge and I have tried to do forge welding. After I did it I looked in my forge and it looks to as if the brick is getting eaten at. Is the flux messing up my forge liner? Am I using too much flux?
@gatorj3333 Flux will quickly eat your bottom brick! Most likely you're using too much flux. Try using less and make sure you use a flux designed for gas forges. I've switched over to Iron Mountain and love it. If your bottom brick isn't ribbed, you may want to try propping your work up, or take Chris Gregory's tip of putting a shovel full of smithing coal in the bottom to protect it. It'll take some practice to prevent the flux from damaging the brick, but stick with it. It gets easier!
@densonfarrier Hmmmm - I seldom work with propane forges (and therefore firebrick) but would you mind explaining the flux eating the brick? Are we talking plain borax here? Is it corroding the brick, or flowing into the porous surface and breaking it up as it heats/cools? I'm curious because I'm switching over to propane and do a lot of forge welding.
BEWARE of the RED TOMLINSON school of horseshoeing. RED IS A THIEF. He'll take your deposit and you'll NEVER get a time,place or ANY details on meeting for that firse class. RED IS A TRAVILING THIEF. He uses PO Boxes,eamils and cell phones to hide from people. DONT PAY THIS PIECE OF CRAP A SINGLE $. You'll never see him again !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi im new to blacksmithing and was wondering if someone wants to become a farrier these days do they need to have any sorta college education like vetinary or something?
As of right now, there is no regulation in the farrier profession. So anyone with some horseshoes can go right to work shoeing. However, if you want to stay in the profession for any amount of time you should go to school, and/or apprentice with an experienced shoer. You can go the the American Farrier's Journal website to get a great listing of farrier schools both in the US and Canada. There is a lot more to shoeing a horse than just nailing on shoes!
@densonfarrier or you could be lucky (or unlucky as it were) and have a ferrier/trainer for a dad lol, nice vid man I never got to learn the fire and hammer part but now that I've spent almost 2 years learning about blade making all the things my dad told me about hot shoeing and shoe making make sense, but I digress. Thanks for the forge welding tips!
Good tutorial. Really like your setup. I might suggest another station with the flux at your waist level because sometimes turning around to get something invites an accident. 5 Stars!
I like your technique. I make a lot of patternwelded steel, using a gas forge. I tend to use borax with a bit of flourspar mixed in. In my opinion, lots of folks use way too much flux, in the belief you can substitute flux for proper cleaning or proper heat. If you do it right, you can weld high-carbon at a bright orange-yellow heat, doesn't need to be sparking.
You are absolutely correct! Flux is only supposed to act as a barrier against oxidation so that we can get to a welding temperature without a ton of scale forming and ruining our weld. I've seen guys use so much that it was just running off and eating the forge liner. A little goes a long way! The more you use, the more it costs you in flux and replacement liners. Keep the work clean, your scarfs tight, and you are good to go. In coke, I sometimes don't use it at all!!!
The smith who taught me how to properly forgeweld large, multiple layered billets said that people who skip the cleaning and just trust their flux are expecting a boy to do a man's job. I grind right down to bare metal, with a lot of stuff in steel now, nickle, manganese,etc. some of the oxides give stubborn a new meaning.
I won't confirm, or deny your suspicions, and unfortunately I have to run. My friend Buster has a pressing engagement that I'm bringing him to. It could be explosive for his career!
It takes a couple of minutes to come up to a welding heat. You heard right, flux will eat the bottom of you forge rather quickly. To prevent this, you can either line the bottom of the forge with coal or coke, make a forge tray using forge mud, or lay the project to be welded on an old horseshoe, but basically keep the flux away from the liner. Don't use a lot of flux or it'll drip on the liner. It you need to be portable, go for propane, otherwise coke is the way to go.
I am trying to teach myself to forge weld, i have a propane forge and have been using it for hobby forging, but i have never been able to forge weld yet. How hot do you get it and what kind grade of steel is easiest to learn on?
Forge welding is hard to learn, but once you get it, it's as easy an any other aspect of forging. You can forge weld all magnetic steels. Iron welds the easiest of all materials. You can also forge braze aluminum. Just use a good flux, keep you work free of slag, scarf your welds, and get the work to the same color as your forge liner. Work fast, and keep at it. It'll come with practice. Have fun and happy hammering!!
thanks for the tips, i think my problems so far have been my lack of flux.... i have been reaching white hot but the metal doesn't seem to want to "stick" to itself.
I started with a long heel Werkman horseshoe which is 5/16" x 3/4" hot rolled, flat stock, but you can forge weld any steel with varying degrees of difficultly depending on the carbon content. Wrought iron (which is really scarce these days) can be welded almost by accident, with little or no flux, but for horseshoeing, we normally simple mild steel available from most any steel supplier. Let me know if you have any other questions.
I've never really calculated it, but I normally use two thirty pound cylinder's per 6 day week. In actuality, propane is probably my smallest expense overall.
The cost of materials in general are my lowest expenses. Running a business gets you a lot of different bills, insurance (commercial auto, liability, disability, health), cell phone bills, diesel fuel for the truck, membership dues, continuing education, etc. No one ever said that running a business was cheap.
Yep, membership dues. I belong to a bunch of different professional associations which account for about $1000 per year in dues. Granted, I don't have to belong to them, but it is another business expense. Also, one of my membership dues is over $300/year, but lets me get a discount on my health insurance and liability insurance which more than makes up for it in the long run.
It definitely does take a lot more time and skill, but I've found it to be a necessary skill. Most barns aren't wired for 230V and welding a 3/8" thick horseshoe using a 110V welder is questionable at best, you just don't get good penetration. Since there is a lot of stress on the weld, you don't want to be second guessing whether or not it will break. However, in this day and age, you can just stock you truck with pre-made barshoes, but what fun would that be?
I agree that those rods would work well, but again, most stick welders are 230V. Most farriers I know, myself included, have a 110V Flux Cored Wire Welder, which is good for toe clips on Saddlebred, but not good for thicker steel. I only have 1 barn that I visit that has a 230V plug. Don't forget I'm traveling from barn to barn. In my shop, that's a different story. If I'm making bar shoes ahead of time, I use my square wave.
I am attending school in scottsdale Az now for equine science i want to eventually find a decent farrier school near wickenburg Az i do a bit of bladesmithing by no means am i a bill moran but am not green enough to put half moons on my anvil face any more any suggestions? thx.. by the way terrifis job on that weld, for those that dont know that is very difficult to do.
Its a JHM Competitor. It weighs 260#, give or take. I've had it for years and it was made prior to Anvil Brand buying JHM. If the quality is still there, buy one if you get the chance. My next anvil will be a EuroAnvil. They make beautiful double horned anvils in the 400# range.
That is the flux (Sure-Weld). It prevents weld contamination from oxidation. It allows us to superheat that particular area of the shoe without excessive build up of slag. This is especially important in an atmospheric propane forge. With coal or coke, I normally don't use flux, but if I have to, I'll use anhydrous borax. Hope this helps.
Other than using Sure-Weld welding flux, the only thing that I'm using to weld (fuse) the shoe is adequate heat, good timing, and a preheated anvil. Proper heat management and timing with your hammer are the most essential, but a good quality flux, especially with propane, is paramount.
I'm not sure I understand the question. If you could clarify, I'd be happy to answer. FYI: the steel is is 5/16" x 3/4" mild steel, hot rolled (a Werkman long-heeled shoe). The flux is Sure-weld. I'm using a 300# anvil, Jim Keith tongs, and a Forgemaster forge.
When I get free time, which is few and far between, I 'tinker' around with a little decorative work: mostly horsehead hoofpicks, s-hooks, wine racks, fireplace tools. A long time ago, my friend Mike told me, "you have to do something other than making horseshoe, or you will go crazy!" I'm already crazy, but it does seem to help.
This is a great video. Are you using a 20# propane tank? how many hours does that typically last?
Fairwinds66 9 months ago
Nice. A video from the 1800s. I forsee this becoming more common in the future.
pinoyfourlyf 11 months ago
I have a propane forge and I have tried to do forge welding. After I did it I looked in my forge and it looks to as if the brick is getting eaten at. Is the flux messing up my forge liner? Am I using too much flux?
gatorj3333 1 year ago
@gatorj3333 Flux will quickly eat your bottom brick! Most likely you're using too much flux. Try using less and make sure you use a flux designed for gas forges. I've switched over to Iron Mountain and love it. If your bottom brick isn't ribbed, you may want to try propping your work up, or take Chris Gregory's tip of putting a shovel full of smithing coal in the bottom to protect it. It'll take some practice to prevent the flux from damaging the brick, but stick with it. It gets easier!
densonfarrier 1 year ago
@densonfarrier Hmmmm - I seldom work with propane forges (and therefore firebrick) but would you mind explaining the flux eating the brick? Are we talking plain borax here? Is it corroding the brick, or flowing into the porous surface and breaking it up as it heats/cools? I'm curious because I'm switching over to propane and do a lot of forge welding.
Panzerzimmerpflanze 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
BEWARE of the RED TOMLINSON school of horseshoeing. RED IS A THIEF. He'll take your deposit and you'll NEVER get a time,place or ANY details on meeting for that firse class. RED IS A TRAVILING THIEF. He uses PO Boxes,eamils and cell phones to hide from people. DONT PAY THIS PIECE OF CRAP A SINGLE $. You'll never see him again !!!!!!!!!!!!!
itwasallgoodinthe70s 2 years ago
Hi im new to blacksmithing and was wondering if someone wants to become a farrier these days do they need to have any sorta college education like vetinary or something?
killerkohyar 2 years ago
As of right now, there is no regulation in the farrier profession. So anyone with some horseshoes can go right to work shoeing. However, if you want to stay in the profession for any amount of time you should go to school, and/or apprentice with an experienced shoer. You can go the the American Farrier's Journal website to get a great listing of farrier schools both in the US and Canada. There is a lot more to shoeing a horse than just nailing on shoes!
densonfarrier 2 years ago
thanks i will check out the site.
killerkohyar 2 years ago
@densonfarrier or you could be lucky (or unlucky as it were) and have a ferrier/trainer for a dad lol, nice vid man I never got to learn the fire and hammer part but now that I've spent almost 2 years learning about blade making all the things my dad told me about hot shoeing and shoe making make sense, but I digress. Thanks for the forge welding tips!
delta2131 1 year ago
I love the sound of your gas forge !
phili878 2 years ago
Good video...thanks for sharing :-)
Homesteadforge 2 years ago
Good tutorial. Really like your setup. I might suggest another station with the flux at your waist level because sometimes turning around to get something invites an accident. 5 Stars!
viper8red 2 years ago
I like your technique. I make a lot of patternwelded steel, using a gas forge. I tend to use borax with a bit of flourspar mixed in. In my opinion, lots of folks use way too much flux, in the belief you can substitute flux for proper cleaning or proper heat. If you do it right, you can weld high-carbon at a bright orange-yellow heat, doesn't need to be sparking.
althesmith 2 years ago
You are absolutely correct! Flux is only supposed to act as a barrier against oxidation so that we can get to a welding temperature without a ton of scale forming and ruining our weld. I've seen guys use so much that it was just running off and eating the forge liner. A little goes a long way! The more you use, the more it costs you in flux and replacement liners. Keep the work clean, your scarfs tight, and you are good to go. In coke, I sometimes don't use it at all!!!
densonfarrier 2 years ago
The smith who taught me how to properly forgeweld large, multiple layered billets said that people who skip the cleaning and just trust their flux are expecting a boy to do a man's job. I grind right down to bare metal, with a lot of stuff in steel now, nickle, manganese,etc. some of the oxides give stubborn a new meaning.
althesmith 2 years ago
Judging by your voice, I have a hard time believing you're not the mythbusters guy
RazorRivetRiot 2 years ago
I won't confirm, or deny your suspicions, and unfortunately I have to run. My friend Buster has a pressing engagement that I'm bringing him to. It could be explosive for his career!
densonfarrier 2 years ago
It takes a couple of minutes to come up to a welding heat. You heard right, flux will eat the bottom of you forge rather quickly. To prevent this, you can either line the bottom of the forge with coal or coke, make a forge tray using forge mud, or lay the project to be welded on an old horseshoe, but basically keep the flux away from the liner. Don't use a lot of flux or it'll drip on the liner. It you need to be portable, go for propane, otherwise coke is the way to go.
densonfarrier 2 years ago
I am trying to teach myself to forge weld, i have a propane forge and have been using it for hobby forging, but i have never been able to forge weld yet. How hot do you get it and what kind grade of steel is easiest to learn on?
spleegulence 2 years ago
Forge welding is hard to learn, but once you get it, it's as easy an any other aspect of forging. You can forge weld all magnetic steels. Iron welds the easiest of all materials. You can also forge braze aluminum. Just use a good flux, keep you work free of slag, scarf your welds, and get the work to the same color as your forge liner. Work fast, and keep at it. It'll come with practice. Have fun and happy hammering!!
densonfarrier 2 years ago
thanks for the tips, i think my problems so far have been my lack of flux.... i have been reaching white hot but the metal doesn't seem to want to "stick" to itself.
spleegulence 2 years ago
what metal did you use?...im new :P
demonslayer112223 3 years ago
I started with a long heel Werkman horseshoe which is 5/16" x 3/4" hot rolled, flat stock, but you can forge weld any steel with varying degrees of difficultly depending on the carbon content. Wrought iron (which is really scarce these days) can be welded almost by accident, with little or no flux, but for horseshoeing, we normally simple mild steel available from most any steel supplier. Let me know if you have any other questions.
densonfarrier 3 years ago
ITS COOL
sharn123456 3 years ago
propane is expensive, how many gallons per hour do you use?
mortson978 3 years ago
I've never really calculated it, but I normally use two thirty pound cylinder's per 6 day week. In actuality, propane is probably my smallest expense overall.
densonfarrier 3 years ago
What do you pay so much for, The Steel for the shoes?
mortson978 3 years ago
The cost of materials in general are my lowest expenses. Running a business gets you a lot of different bills, insurance (commercial auto, liability, disability, health), cell phone bills, diesel fuel for the truck, membership dues, continuing education, etc. No one ever said that running a business was cheap.
densonfarrier 3 years ago
membership dues?
mortson978 3 years ago
Yep, membership dues. I belong to a bunch of different professional associations which account for about $1000 per year in dues. Granted, I don't have to belong to them, but it is another business expense. Also, one of my membership dues is over $300/year, but lets me get a discount on my health insurance and liability insurance which more than makes up for it in the long run.
densonfarrier 3 years ago
takes a lot more time then say conventional welding, but cool.
STRYKER7191 3 years ago
It definitely does take a lot more time and skill, but I've found it to be a necessary skill. Most barns aren't wired for 230V and welding a 3/8" thick horseshoe using a 110V welder is questionable at best, you just don't get good penetration. Since there is a lot of stress on the weld, you don't want to be second guessing whether or not it will break. However, in this day and age, you can just stock you truck with pre-made barshoes, but what fun would that be?
densonfarrier 3 years ago
just wip on a E6010 or E6011,small diameter electrode. That'll get good penetration
STRYKER7191 3 years ago
I agree that those rods would work well, but again, most stick welders are 230V. Most farriers I know, myself included, have a 110V Flux Cored Wire Welder, which is good for toe clips on Saddlebred, but not good for thicker steel. I only have 1 barn that I visit that has a 230V plug. Don't forget I'm traveling from barn to barn. In my shop, that's a different story. If I'm making bar shoes ahead of time, I use my square wave.
densonfarrier 3 years ago
Thanks for sharing apart of your knowledge with us...5 stars
TomLumpkins 3 years ago
I am attending school in scottsdale Az now for equine science i want to eventually find a decent farrier school near wickenburg Az i do a bit of bladesmithing by no means am i a bill moran but am not green enough to put half moons on my anvil face any more any suggestions? thx.. by the way terrifis job on that weld, for those that dont know that is very difficult to do.
n8m4jesus 3 years ago
that is a brilliant anvil. i would kill for that
wildcountrytim 4 years ago 2
Its a JHM Competitor. It weighs 260#, give or take. I've had it for years and it was made prior to Anvil Brand buying JHM. If the quality is still there, buy one if you get the chance. My next anvil will be a EuroAnvil. They make beautiful double horned anvils in the 400# range.
densonfarrier 4 years ago
today i've try your technic
and i've grant thanks very much for your advise
but i think i've let my steel to much in the fire
because he began to gleam and to make blister^^
but i've grant but i use activated hard coal
thanks again
alchamy30 4 years ago
yes thank you very much
I don't know how to thank you
sorry for my english
alchamy30 4 years ago
yes okay but we can see that you put something on the horse shoe two times
and afte you put yoursteel into your forge
and after you use your hammer
watc your vidéo at the 2.37min
alchamy30 4 years ago
That is the flux (Sure-Weld). It prevents weld contamination from oxidation. It allows us to superheat that particular area of the shoe without excessive build up of slag. This is especially important in an atmospheric propane forge. With coal or coke, I normally don't use flux, but if I have to, I'll use anhydrous borax. Hope this helps.
densonfarrier 4 years ago
i want to mean to fuse the steel of the horse shoe
sorry
alchamy30 4 years ago
Other than using Sure-Weld welding flux, the only thing that I'm using to weld (fuse) the shoe is adequate heat, good timing, and a preheated anvil. Proper heat management and timing with your hammer are the most essential, but a good quality flux, especially with propane, is paramount.
densonfarrier 4 years ago
sorry i xnt to man to fuse his steel
alchamy30 4 years ago
very good vidéo
somebody know what's the man use to cast his steel thank for your answer
alchamy30 4 years ago
I'm not sure I understand the question. If you could clarify, I'd be happy to answer. FYI: the steel is is 5/16" x 3/4" mild steel, hot rolled (a Werkman long-heeled shoe). The flux is Sure-weld. I'm using a 300# anvil, Jim Keith tongs, and a Forgemaster forge.
densonfarrier 4 years ago
very good men, i'm from brasil, and i'm a farrier, post a video making a heartbar shoes, thanks (PS. my english is terrible)
guicelent 4 years ago
Sorry it took so long, but I've finally gotten a video dealing with heartbars up for you. You can get their from my main channel. Hope you like it.
densonfarrier 4 years ago
do you do any blacksmithing
1theblacksmith1 4 years ago
When I get free time, which is few and far between, I 'tinker' around with a little decorative work: mostly horsehead hoofpicks, s-hooks, wine racks, fireplace tools. A long time ago, my friend Mike told me, "you have to do something other than making horseshoe, or you will go crazy!" I'm already crazy, but it does seem to help.
densonfarrier 4 years ago
Very informative, thanks for posting!
AmericanFabricator 4 years ago