Gretzky revolutionized the game, without question - but he wasn't superman. It took some time, but once teams figured out how to play him and isolate him with close checking, physical play and special defensive schemes, his production plummeted back to mortal levels. This does nothing to detract from his greatness, it just makes him more human. The best thing about Wayne's playing is his "hockey sense," his ability to see the game several steps ahead. He was peerless in that regard.
The overall level of competition in today's game is such that we may never again see someone break 70 goals. If it happens, it is going to be rare. We won't see 200 points in a season or 90 goals again under the status quo. Expansion diluted the talent in the NHL for a decade or so around the time Gretzxky came into the league, due to the WHA teams joining the league. Parity was a joke; the NHL worst teams were like high-level minor league or junior squads.
Gretzky's vision of the ice and the game was said to be second to none, as was his intelligence for the game. Against these have to be balanced the size, speed and skill level of today's players, and overall parity in the game. Gretzky benefitted from watered-down talent in a rapidly-expanding league, rules that favored offenses, and goalies hampered by primitive equipment and a less-advanced art. Gretzky would have been shut down in today's game to a much-greater extent.
There's no denying that the Great One is among the greatest ever hockey players, and the most prolific scorer in history. However, Gretzky wouldn't score anything like 90 goals or 200 points in a season, in today's game. The goalies are too expert, the shot-blocking too fierce...and the players too big, too fast, and too well-trained for heroics of the kind we saw in the 1980s. Gretz would be fortunate to break fifty goals a season in today's environment.
I watched hockey back then. I never realized how horrible the goalies were until you look back at the old clips. I mean some of the shots Gretzky scored with on this video clip would be routine saves today.
if goalies played back then like they do today, gretzky wouldve had a 40 goal season in 82 games. assists he'd still dominate because he somehow had eyes in the back of his head
Man, goalies don't play like they did against Gretzky and other in the 1980s like they do in todays NHL, lol. A lot of those shots came at the blueline. That's impossible to do in today's NHL.
@liesinpale Don't look at the plain stats, look deeper. And you'll find, that it's about dominance. Gretzky dominated through almost all his career, collecting 10 Art Ross trophies. If, let's say, someone is better, than maybe he can win at least 7-8 Art Ross? And I really don't care, if he wins it scoring only 50 points in a season - just prove that you're better than others.
Just remember statisics don't lie, Plus if you look at his line mates, they put guys out there to protect him, not play with him. He is truly a Canadian hero
@BispingFan28: True, stats don't lie ... but they can mislead. Stats aren't everything either. Gretzky has a legitimate case as the greatest scorer of all time; he holds all those marks - but that does not necessarily make him the greatest or most complete player of all time. Surrounded by a stellar case of stars in Edmonton, he won multiple cups. Not so elsewhere. Once teams figured out how to play Gretzky - physical and with close fore/backchecking, they were able to contain him.
Gretzky was an amazing player no doubt, but man were goalies bad back in the early to mid 80's! That standup style of play really left them vulnerable to dekes and side to side plays. It would be interesting what kind of production Gretzky would have if he came into the league within the last 10 years or so. Goalenders are alot more athletic now and goaltending techique has improved 1000x since say 1986...
@khabibissell Obviously his numbers would be lower, but he would still be the best. He was shooting against the same goalies as everyone else was, but beating 2nd place by 70+ points. For 21 straight years, no one won a scoring title except Gretzky, Lemieux, and Jagr. We've had 5 different winners now in the last 5 years because there is no one who dominates the way Gretzky and Lemieux did. They don't even dominate like Jagr.
@khabibissell Ya, but everyone else back then were shooting against the same goalies and Gretzky, and he was winning scoring races by nearly 80 points. The goaltending should affect everyone from that era - yet Gretzky was scoring 200 points a year in his prime, and averaged over 180 pts a year for 10 years! Lemieux is the only other one to even break 180, and he did it 1x. You can't say Gretzky's points were only because of goaltending when he was winning Art Ross trophies just on his assists.
@khabibissell Oh for sure - even with bad teamates, Gretzky sets records (liike his 3rd season, where he more than doubles the next closest Oiler in points while getting 50 in 39 and 212 pts). But they wouldn't be as out of reach as they are. But without a strong team, he doesn't win any cups, as shown by his LA years where he made the finals, but couldn't win. History would not look as favorably upon him without any championships.
@khabibissell: The variation in the level of talent between the pipes was bigger than it is today. Back in the old days, 1970s and before, the most-talented athletes on a hockey team were not asked to play goal. Consequently, you got some great athletes at the position, some also-rans. Today, the best athlete on a pro hockey team, and the best skater, is often a goalie. Equipment improvements have made a world of difference; the old leather pads were heavy, especially when wet, and small, too.
I'm watching game 5 of the 1985 Stanley Cup final as we speak...you've got to see the assist he gets on Coffey's goal...incredible. This is a player for all ages!
@Scoclamor Is that the one where he draws both the defenders to him, then hits Coffey with a blind behind the back pass (and it was a forward pass, despite being behind the back) and sent him in alone from the face off circle? He had another similar one against Chicago in the playoffs short handed, where he sent Kurri in on a break away from center on a behind the back pass that went cross ice... just insane.
@shazariahl They sure were. The Kurri goal was shorthanded vs the Hawks, April 24, 1983. Killing a 5 min major, Gretzky got a nice assist, and then assisted again on the goal that you described! Coffey's goal, damn!
@shazariahl ...yeah, and if you do a search for "Gretzky blind pass", you'll find both those goals here on YouTube. As great as Orr and Lemieux were, they didn't have the vision Gretzky had, and to me, that's what puts him ahead of the other two.
@penguinlord992 But he'd win the scoring title every year...and no one will ever approach 163 assists in one season...or 2 assist per game, in a single season, EVER!
And this was before they took out holding, hooking and brutal interference. Gretzky and Lemieux are like 100 year storms that came within a few years of each other. This talk of Crosbabay and Ovechkin being in the same category is ridiculous fanboy hyping. No basis in reality. Crosby and Ovechkin are in the same league as greats like Yzerman and Lafleur but no where near Wayne and Mario. Not even close.
You guys are fucking stupid! Wayne gretzky does not suck! Do you have to have a hard shot to be a good player no all you need is good sportsman ship. When he was 6 years old he got 234 goals againtst 12 year olds
@vladtepes97 And he'd still get about 100 assists. Sedin is going to get about 80-85 assists...so Gretzky would probably get about 100 assists...maybe 120. He's 49...but he's still smarter than EVERYONE!
The reason the butterfly style took off is because the pads are so huge these days, the actions of the NHL about reducing their size has been a joke so far
Don't forget this was an era when hooking,holding,and interference was virtually legal and a five on three was rare enough to rate a special mention on the sports page.
It's sort of funny that you're making fun of people who are Utubing here, yet you're doing the exact same thing... That's irony for you. Oh, sorry. "Irony" is the non-plural version of the word "ironic." Oh, sorry. "Ironic" is when the actual meaning of something is the exact opposite of its literal meaning... Oh, sorry. This word pertains to your comment because you "actually" meant to insult people here, but all you did was "literally" insult yourself. Quite well too. Congrats!
I said youtubing on a friday night, a phrase that means your a loser with nothing else to do on the prime night of the week to socialize. your response = FAIL as does your sexlife you willy wonka looking dipshit
@xSayHiToTheBadGuyx - Read the above comment. It pertains to you and your hilarious and well-thought-out comment. BTW, a high school education is your friend. (Look into it.)
He's to me is the best there ever !!!! His slapshots are undeniable if you look the goalies can't even drop to make an attempt it's already in the goal =) it is soooooo funny to watch
Gretzky is the best and would've been the best today too. Common tryna compare ovechkin to him a like a slap in the face. Thurr's far more better players than ovechkin too. Lemieux, Yzerman, Jagr, Sakic to name a few...need i say more?
not all goals have to be hard guys, its just cuz he actually made them. gretzky was better than anyone you can name. better than ovi malkin crosby datsyuk and lemieux.
I think if you watched an entire game from 85-88 you would see how great Gretzky was. He saw the ice better than anybody, and he was able to steal pucks unlike anyone ever before or since. If you watched the Canada Cup where Lemieux scored the famous goal, the MVP of the tournament was Gretzky. He did so many things to dominate every aspect of the game when he was motivated, and you will not see that from Ovechkin. Crosby and Malkin are not even close to Mario and Jagr, the game is weak today!
Just give Ovechkin time to learn a little bit more. Right now I'll agree that he's a big puck hog, but he's still a great player. Crosby and Malkin were highly touted, but I don't think they'll ever see Gretzky records. I don't think anybody in the NHL, again, will see Gretzky records.
gretzky had alot of assists to he wasnt always a puck hog and besides if u had a chance to get 50 goals in 39 games would you play like normal or go for the record
You're def right... No one will ever see gretzkys records, because look at these goals hes scoring. there might as well not be a goalie in net they are so bad. those shots are not hard and they are right on the ice where a 10 year old goalie doing a basic butterfly would stop those. ovi, crosby, malkin, datsyuk, and more > gretzky. Its a joke watching these goals
Wayne at the end of his career was still a top 20-30 player in the NHL. Mario came out of retirement and dominated only a few years ago. Now imagine Gretzky and Lemieux with the new light equipment and sticks. Remember that the equipment back then was very heavy and small. Gretzky and Lemieux dominated everytime they had the puck back then, and if they were young today they would dominate today as well. Ovechkin can score, but he doesn't dictate the entire game day in day out.
I'm sorry but you're leaving out a key component of the Ovechkin Gretzky argument...the GOALTENDING was unbelievably bad when Gretzky broke all of his records...Ovechkin is facing butterfly goaltending that prevents 50% of Gretzky's goals...Gretzky is still the best...technically...but its clear who has more individual talent...OVECHKIN
Keym, thanks for your response, and proving to me that you don't know the game. Yes, Patrick Roy changed the game with his technique, but that doesn't mean that goalies who came before him were "unbelievably bad". Yes, the equipment's changed, but it goes both ways. How many more points would 99 and 66 have gotten if they played with composite sticks?
I was basically pointing at your poor choice of words. My point is that Dryden, Parent, Esposito and others I named were not "unbelievably bad".
your right it was a poor and hasty choice of words...composite sticks are a huge advantage that new players have over today's goalies... we'll see how Ov's career turns out
@TheRealDerfMan All excellent goaltenders... in their day. When I was a young netminder coming up Vanbiesbrouck was my idle. My point was that Grezky, and those mid 80's Oiler teams were ahead of their time and goalies and goaltending technique took a while to catch up. By the early 90's, the playing field was leveling out and you didn't see crazy point totals like that so much anymore.
@khabibissell The Oilers were indeed ahead of their time. They had three of the best players of their day in Gretzky, Messier and Coffey. And I also can't disagree that the goaltending technique caught up in the early 90's where goalies were playing a much better butterfly than Tony Esposito did. My comment was directed at those who say outright that "the goalies in the 80's sucked ass", which in my eyes, they didn't. The technique wasn't what it is today, but they sure didn't suck ass either.
Again, yes the goalies are better for two main reasons. 1) Good athletes opt to be goalies more often now than in the past. 2 The goaltending equipment is much bigger. Look how skinny the goalies looked back then. At the same time however today's composite hockey sticks are modern skates are also much much better. That's why all the players today seem to be able to wire the puck and to skate so well. more -->
Throw in the increased use of supplements today (eg Creatine) that were not widespread in the 80s. (I took Creatine for 3 months and experienced a 15% strength gain in squats and bench press). That's why you can't readily compare players from different eras. What we do know however is that when Gretzky was in his absolute prime there was no other player who was close to him. You can't say that about Ovechkin, Crosby, or Malkin.
Whybugus, you're absolutely correct. Anybody trying to compare let's say Ovechkin with Gretzky, Orr, or Richard doesn't get how you can't compare eras. Coaches like Scotty Bowman, Roger Nielson, and we can even argue Jacques Lemaire, changed the way the game is played. I don't doubt that Bobby Orr would have the talent to score 50 goals if he played today, but would he be able to? The game is so different now that he probably wouldn't be able to score even 40 in today's game. Who knows, right?
hmmm maybe you shuld check out the equipment they used back then is like nothing compared to today using lumber stick that had no curve how could you say they couldnt have those records in todays game?
Gretzky was a great hockey player, and for his time. Ovechkin is a great hockey player... for his time. In 25 years, Ovechkin will seem dated, just like Gretzky. You can't compare today with yesterday. Just take them for what they are for the time that they are in. In 25 years, the equipment will be even lighter, the ice synthetic allowing players to go twice as fast, the conditioning will be even better... well, you get the picture.
It's a joke to even compare. Look back at the record years for Gretzky. Look at his point totals and then look for second place. No other player in any sport has EVER dominated the way Gretzky did. Bad goal tending or not, he also had a heavier stick and equipment to skate with. There has yet to be 1 player to dominate the way he did. Gretz had 28 more goals and 27 more assists than the next highest point getters in each category. Mario was the most talented player EVER and Gretzky the best.
thats actually a really good comment. i respect what mario did more than i respect wayne, not anything against wayne but the way mario overcame everything that would have stopped most to be the most dominate player in the game for years and arguably of all time amazes me. he missed two months of a season due to chemotherapy and came back and won the scoring title.
Everyone else in Gretzky's day was shooting against those same goalies, but Gretzky was beating them by 65-79 points in the scoring race during his prime. Ovechkin didn't even win the last scoring race, and lost another to Crosby 2 years before that. While he is certainly a great player, he does NOT dominate the league like Gretzky did. When Gretzky was in his prime, he was winning scoring races by the all-star break, and had seasons with more assists than anyone else had points.
Have you ever tried tried a skateboard from the 70s?
If you skateboarded in the 70s then you would be using 70s skateboards, no helmets and no pads. Unless you are the best in the world today I doubt very much you would be the best in the world back then either. You would probably fall off crack your skull and give up?
Not to mention Rodney Mullen would still be 100 times better than you. No offense if you are a great skateboarder, but seriously. Anyway, Gretzky owns Ovechkin, but Ovechkin still owns.
For those of you suggesting that the goalies were bad back then, I'd suggest that you watch the whole game.
Gretzky scored 5 goals but had many more chances. Pete Peters robbed Gretzky of 3-4 other great chances.
The only problem that I have with this record is the empty netter. Gretzky scored more empty net goals than anyone which is a record in itself, but I'd have preferred it if he'd have scored such an important goal on a goalie.
No one will ever touch this record. It was all offense back then. Goalies are so much better now, and teams don't have as many defensive breakdowns. Hell you're lucky to see a 2 on 1 in a game today. Back then you'd see at least a couple per period.
Imagine Ovechkin playing in the 80's....He'd destroy Gretzky's records (well maybe not any of his assist records), but he'd break the 92 goal mark ...I know, I know, not really fair to compare different eras, but still....
Yes ofc, he took icehockey to a new step, but i think its importent to see how much better he is than the other players instead. No1 could touch him, now the goalies have bigger padses and so, but you get also better practice conditions, and sports have been taken more seriously.
The goalies weren't as good, but if they were so easy to score on, why didn't anyone else have 200 points in a season ever? He won scoring races by 70-80 points on a yearly basis. Yet all those other guys were shooting against the same goalies he was. If goalies were so terrible, why couldn't anyone else come within 80 points of him? He dominated more than any player ever.
Whenever you see a video of the greatest players it looks like the goalies and other players suck. Look at some of the videos where Lemieux makes Borque look silly. Come on we're talking about Borque one of the top 5 defencemen of all time!! If Wayne Gretzky was from this generation he would be quicker, faster, and stronger than before because of conditioning, nutritional, training, and equipment advances and he would dominate the exact same way as he did back then.
come on though, a simple butterfly in today's days would stop so many of the goals from back in the day. half the time the goalies didnt even drop down of course a low shot will go in. i wont take away from his speed, intelligence, great hands and shot, but against goalies today with their pad sizes and butterfly style,his pts would no doubt be not nearly as high. so ovie and crosby n geno doin what they do in todays type of game is incredible. avg goals a game bck then was higher than today too
If it was so simple then everyone else would have been scoring like Gretzky. In his prime for 3-4 years, Gretzky had more assists than the second best scorer had points. Gretzky was much better than everyone else during his early prime years. You can't even begin to compare Crosby to Gretzky. In Crosby's early prime years (i.e. now) one could argue that Malkin and Ovie are better. From 1982-1987 there was noone who was even close to Gretzky.
everyone did score more, note how i said the avg goals per game for a team was higher when gretzky played than now. i didnt say crosby only, i also mentioned malkin and ovechkin. gretzky got assists bc the goalies werent as good despite who was shooting. when gretzky was avg at 100 and some pts from 79 to 93, the gpg avg never dropped below 7.03 and was at 8.03 at one time. now the gpg is about 5.5 so yes the goalies and defense were weaker there were stats to prove it
The only valid way to begin to compare players across different eras is to understand how dominant the players were/are compared to other players of the same era. Again, in his prime for 3-4 years, Gretzky had more assists than the second best scorer had points. Gretkzy's dominance over his contemporaries (during his prime) is unequalled.
Man your so wrong about that you cant compare people to how well they did compared to other players in there time its stupid, like jstemz said and hes right the gaolies now adays are alot better and its way harder to scare goals
Yes the goalie equipment is bigger there are more good goalies today but that does not mean Crosby, Malkin, and/or Ovechkin would have scored 200 points four seasons in a row (let alone one) using an old wooden hockey stick and old-style skates in the 80s.
i dont think hes the best player skill wise but definetely probably the highest point getter and the goalies back then were shit compared to today aswell and that is just my opinion so noone freak out
What people forget is he was the ultimate play maker. Even back then he wasn't the fastest, the strongest, nor was he hardest shot. Nothing would change today. He'd still be underestimated.
As I look at the video and consider your comments...I think I actually have to agree. The pads and equipment that these goalies were using in those days were so small that it was almost like just another player standing in goal. The days goalies have huge wide blockers, pads, glove and stick. Still, Gretzky's puck-handling and shot-creating ability would have made him a star in any era.
Really? Lemieux missed way more games than Wayne did, and had less points. He also had less points per game, and his prime lasted way fewer yeras. Wayne AVERAGED 180 points/year for his first 10 years. Lemieux only had what... 1 season that broke 180? Wayne had 4 seasons over 200, Lemieux had 0. Wayne holds every career and single season record of worth - Lemieux is always 2nd. Wayne was a way better playmaker too - 163 assists! Lemieux's best season for assists ties Wayne's 8th best season.
I'll say it again. Lemieux is a way better hockey player then Gretzky. Had Lemieux had the team that Gretzky had in the early 80's, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Lemieux has SHIT teams to play for. (Except for three years), Gretzky was loaded with great talent.
So, these stats that you are tossing in my direction, tell that to the tourists. I am fully aware of those stats.
I am also aware of the fact that once Gretzky left Edmonton, he never won another cup.
im not even in high scool yet fucktard. and if u think that mario's better then Gretzky, then just compare there stats, ha Gretzky was a +98 at the end of one of his seasons. mario didnt even break 40+. yea lemme tell ya hes a way better player to have on ur team.
let me tell you that mario is the best, wayne played on an elite team arguably the best team ever assembled, mario had 3 years with a solid team and thy won 2 cups, as soon as wayne sold out he never won another and he never won an olympic gold, in the big time games wayne could never get it done alone, mario always could. thats the difference. and in their prime years mario had more points per game than wayne did.
Gretzky's 1st season he tied for scoring title. Messier had 12 goals, Oilers were 16th out of 21 teams. Not an elite team. 2nd season? Oilers were 14th and didn't secure a playoff spot until the final day of the season. Gretzky broke the assist and points records. 3rd season? Kuri arrived in the NHL and had 85 points. Coffee was 2nd in team scoring with 105. Gretzky had over double that with 212. Don't tell me it was his teammates when he had over 2x as many points as the next closest guy.
@shazariahl that's an excellent point. The way I see it is, Gretzky was the most effective scorer but Lemieux had more raw talent and finesse. A lot of the time, you wouldn't hear Gretzky's name a lot during the game, but by the end of the night he had 3 points. Lemieux was better at making defensemen look silly. They were both incredible players, and it's ridiculous to compare them to Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, etc like some guys do. They're not even close to either of those two players.
mario had cancer missed two months and beat wayne for the art ross. that commands respect. wayne said himself mario is a better player. and mario had a better points per game average when he retired the first time it wasnt until he came back for the last few years that his ppd average dropped. through the 80s and 90s mario was a more dominant player, look it up ppg averages dont lie.. mario was the best player in waynes prime.
Those weren't Wayne's prime years though. His prime were the 6 straight years he averaged over 200 pts (something Lemieux never did even once). If you want his "extended" prime, its the 10 seasons he averaged over 180 points (something Lemieux only did once). The years Gretzky went to the Kings were NOT his prime years. Gretzky's best seasons PPG are better than Lemieuxs best PPG - and his career PPG are better despite playing 500 more games. Like you said, PPG don't lie.
1. those 80s oilers were a much better team than lemieux ever was on, filled with hall of famers. that makes the difference between their best seasons rather meaningless. the drastic drop in gretzky points after being traded to the kings speaks for itself.
2. lemieux retired while still at a decent age, only to come back later and play older than gretzky ever did. he also played injured a lot. your 500 more games shit is just plain retarded.
Mario had teams filled with hall of famers too, he wouldn't have won the cup without them.
And for the drastic drop when Gretzky went to the Kings, he went from 2.33 ppg to 2.15 ppg, drastic... and don't forget he went from the Cup winning team to the 18th place team.
Actually the drop is more significant after being badly injured in Canada Cup 91, especially his goal scoring ability, he never scored more than 40 goals after that (and he got older too...).
@joyfulvulture 1. As I already said, Gretzky's 212 pt year the next closest Oiler had 105 points, Coffey. Kurri and Messier both had less than 90. Gretzky had more goals than that. It BECAME a great team, but the first few years they were lower half of the NHL.He still broke the records.
2. Lemieux's team wasn't as good, but he only broke180 pts. once. Gretzky averaged that for 10 years. Gretzky's production dropped as he aged - just like Lemieux.
Gretzky's totals dropped for the most part because hockey got harder, why you think it's so hard to get 120 points today. The only person standing a chance to reach 130 or more points in this era is Crosby. By the way the goalies were absolute shit back then it's pretty easy to see. Just look at how they don't even play stand up correctly or haven't started the use of the butterfly which greatly increased the degree to score in the NHL The talent in this era is far greater then the old era.
@shazariahl True, but Lemieux had a lot of really bad injuries not to mention cancer. if you want a player who's less play making and sheer personal talent i choose Lemieux, if you want someone who is an amazing play maker its Gretzky.
'mario had cancer missed two months and beat wayne for the art ross'
In case you didn't know (Mario fans usually don't know hockey very much), that year when Mario had cancer, Gretzky missed half of the season from injuries. So I don't know why it's so a big deal that Mario beat Wayne for the Art Ross.
Mario also said Wayne was the best, who do you believe?
he was not a bum you meanie
TIGERMAN118 1 month ago
Gretzky was a bum
AlienBusDriver 2 months ago
Gretzky revolutionized the game, without question - but he wasn't superman. It took some time, but once teams figured out how to play him and isolate him with close checking, physical play and special defensive schemes, his production plummeted back to mortal levels. This does nothing to detract from his greatness, it just makes him more human. The best thing about Wayne's playing is his "hockey sense," his ability to see the game several steps ahead. He was peerless in that regard.
GeorgiaBoy1961 3 months ago
The overall level of competition in today's game is such that we may never again see someone break 70 goals. If it happens, it is going to be rare. We won't see 200 points in a season or 90 goals again under the status quo. Expansion diluted the talent in the NHL for a decade or so around the time Gretzxky came into the league, due to the WHA teams joining the league. Parity was a joke; the NHL worst teams were like high-level minor league or junior squads.
GeorgiaBoy1961 3 months ago
Gretzky's vision of the ice and the game was said to be second to none, as was his intelligence for the game. Against these have to be balanced the size, speed and skill level of today's players, and overall parity in the game. Gretzky benefitted from watered-down talent in a rapidly-expanding league, rules that favored offenses, and goalies hampered by primitive equipment and a less-advanced art. Gretzky would have been shut down in today's game to a much-greater extent.
GeorgiaBoy1961 3 months ago
There's no denying that the Great One is among the greatest ever hockey players, and the most prolific scorer in history. However, Gretzky wouldn't score anything like 90 goals or 200 points in a season, in today's game. The goalies are too expert, the shot-blocking too fierce...and the players too big, too fast, and too well-trained for heroics of the kind we saw in the 1980s. Gretz would be fortunate to break fifty goals a season in today's environment.
GeorgiaBoy1961 3 months ago
it's just like with Wilt Chamberlain in NBA, players were less athletic than nowadays, but he's certainly the best
RuFfLeSs 9 months ago
I watched hockey back then. I never realized how horrible the goalies were until you look back at the old clips. I mean some of the shots Gretzky scored with on this video clip would be routine saves today.
berezin99 1 year ago
if goalies played back then like they do today, gretzky wouldve had a 40 goal season in 82 games. assists he'd still dominate because he somehow had eyes in the back of his head
MESSier1188 1 year ago
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vincenz1111 1 year ago
big deal.
I think i might be able to score 100 goals with ovechkin in my game.
krzie18 1 year ago
the goalies sucked all u needed was a wrist shot to beat them
dobby6786 1 year ago
Man, goalies don't play like they did against Gretzky and other in the 1980s like they do in todays NHL, lol. A lot of those shots came at the blueline. That's impossible to do in today's NHL.
liesinpale 1 year ago
@liesinpale Don't look at the plain stats, look deeper. And you'll find, that it's about dominance. Gretzky dominated through almost all his career, collecting 10 Art Ross trophies. If, let's say, someone is better, than maybe he can win at least 7-8 Art Ross? And I really don't care, if he wins it scoring only 50 points in a season - just prove that you're better than others.
Muxej 1 year ago
Just remember statisics don't lie, Plus if you look at his line mates, they put guys out there to protect him, not play with him. He is truly a Canadian hero
BispingFan28 1 year ago
@BispingFan28: True, stats don't lie ... but they can mislead. Stats aren't everything either. Gretzky has a legitimate case as the greatest scorer of all time; he holds all those marks - but that does not necessarily make him the greatest or most complete player of all time. Surrounded by a stellar case of stars in Edmonton, he won multiple cups. Not so elsewhere. Once teams figured out how to play Gretzky - physical and with close fore/backchecking, they were able to contain him.
GeorgiaBoy1961 3 months ago
Gretzky was an amazing player no doubt, but man were goalies bad back in the early to mid 80's! That standup style of play really left them vulnerable to dekes and side to side plays. It would be interesting what kind of production Gretzky would have if he came into the league within the last 10 years or so. Goalenders are alot more athletic now and goaltending techique has improved 1000x since say 1986...
khabibissell 1 year ago
@khabibissell Obviously his numbers would be lower, but he would still be the best. He was shooting against the same goalies as everyone else was, but beating 2nd place by 70+ points. For 21 straight years, no one won a scoring title except Gretzky, Lemieux, and Jagr. We've had 5 different winners now in the last 5 years because there is no one who dominates the way Gretzky and Lemieux did. They don't even dominate like Jagr.
shazariahl 1 year ago
@khabibissell Ya, but everyone else back then were shooting against the same goalies and Gretzky, and he was winning scoring races by nearly 80 points. The goaltending should affect everyone from that era - yet Gretzky was scoring 200 points a year in his prime, and averaged over 180 pts a year for 10 years! Lemieux is the only other one to even break 180, and he did it 1x. You can't say Gretzky's points were only because of goaltending when he was winning Art Ross trophies just on his assists.
shazariahl 1 year ago
@shazariahl Don't get me wrong Gretzky was an amazing player. His teammates on the Oilers weren't too shabby either...
khabibissell 1 year ago
@khabibissell Oh for sure - even with bad teamates, Gretzky sets records (liike his 3rd season, where he more than doubles the next closest Oiler in points while getting 50 in 39 and 212 pts). But they wouldn't be as out of reach as they are. But without a strong team, he doesn't win any cups, as shown by his LA years where he made the finals, but couldn't win. History would not look as favorably upon him without any championships.
shazariahl 1 year ago
@khabibissell: The variation in the level of talent between the pipes was bigger than it is today. Back in the old days, 1970s and before, the most-talented athletes on a hockey team were not asked to play goal. Consequently, you got some great athletes at the position, some also-rans. Today, the best athlete on a pro hockey team, and the best skater, is often a goalie. Equipment improvements have made a world of difference; the old leather pads were heavy, especially when wet, and small, too.
GeorgiaBoy1961 7 months ago
I'm watching game 5 of the 1985 Stanley Cup final as we speak...you've got to see the assist he gets on Coffey's goal...incredible. This is a player for all ages!
Scoclamor 1 year ago
@Scoclamor Is that the one where he draws both the defenders to him, then hits Coffey with a blind behind the back pass (and it was a forward pass, despite being behind the back) and sent him in alone from the face off circle? He had another similar one against Chicago in the playoffs short handed, where he sent Kurri in on a break away from center on a behind the back pass that went cross ice... just insane.
shazariahl 1 year ago
@shazariahl They sure were. The Kurri goal was shorthanded vs the Hawks, April 24, 1983. Killing a 5 min major, Gretzky got a nice assist, and then assisted again on the goal that you described! Coffey's goal, damn!
Scoclamor 1 year ago
@shazariahl ...yeah, and if you do a search for "Gretzky blind pass", you'll find both those goals here on YouTube. As great as Orr and Lemieux were, they didn't have the vision Gretzky had, and to me, that's what puts him ahead of the other two.
TheRealDerfMan 1 year ago
gaurantee if he was the age he is in this video and plays in the nhl today that would not happen
penguinlord992 1 year ago
@penguinlord992 But he'd win the scoring title every year...and no one will ever approach 163 assists in one season...or 2 assist per game, in a single season, EVER!
Scoclamor 1 year ago
he is a canadian
99hockeynhl 1 year ago
I don't even think that dumbass in net was even trying to stop the shots o.e look at 0:35 he doesn't even move
razorslice17 1 year ago
this guy cant play hockey.
MultiLolwhat 1 year ago
Goaltending was poor in those days. Plus the pads were tiny.
johnnycash0503 1 year ago
statistically, the most dominant player in all of sports
KGfan7 1 year ago
And this was before they took out holding, hooking and brutal interference. Gretzky and Lemieux are like 100 year storms that came within a few years of each other. This talk of Crosbabay and Ovechkin being in the same category is ridiculous fanboy hyping. No basis in reality. Crosby and Ovechkin are in the same league as greats like Yzerman and Lafleur but no where near Wayne and Mario. Not even close.
D0NKY 1 year ago
You guys are fucking stupid! Wayne gretzky does not suck! Do you have to have a hard shot to be a good player no all you need is good sportsman ship. When he was 6 years old he got 234 goals againtst 12 year olds
powerkid111 1 year ago
if gretzky played today he'd score only about 45-50 goals a season, but you have to remember, he's 49 years old.
vladtepes97 1 year ago
@vladtepes97 And he'd still get about 100 assists. Sedin is going to get about 80-85 assists...so Gretzky would probably get about 100 assists...maybe 120. He's 49...but he's still smarter than EVERYONE!
Scoclamor 1 year ago
The reason the butterfly style took off is because the pads are so huge these days, the actions of the NHL about reducing their size has been a joke so far
DouglasEdward84 2 years ago
Don't forget this was an era when hooking,holding,and interference was virtually legal and a five on three was rare enough to rate a special mention on the sports page.
TurnpikecIII 2 years ago 4
This was also before butterfly goalies were the norm - much more flexible and consistent than the old standup goaltending.
seedvt0 2 years ago
Ovy and crosby are over rated We need players like Pavel Bure and Mario lamiuxe and Gretszky back ..
mikeissocool19 2 years ago
At least you spelled Bure right, god.
MrSS454 2 years ago 2
@mikeissocool19 yeah, my 3 favs, but too bad about Lemieux and Bure's short careers, oh well
zekethehillbilly 1 year ago
Ya man sucks..
mikeissocool19 1 year ago
With goalies like that todays top scorers would be able to score 100+/season
johx88 2 years ago
@johx88 see turnpike's comment and get humbled
zekethehillbilly 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
fuck hockey and fuck u trailer park drinkin beer and youtubing on a friday night in ur wives panties who dislike this comment. FUCK YOU!
xSayHiToTheBadGuyx 2 years ago
It's sort of funny that you're making fun of people who are Utubing here, yet you're doing the exact same thing... That's irony for you. Oh, sorry. "Irony" is the non-plural version of the word "ironic." Oh, sorry. "Ironic" is when the actual meaning of something is the exact opposite of its literal meaning... Oh, sorry. This word pertains to your comment because you "actually" meant to insult people here, but all you did was "literally" insult yourself. Quite well too. Congrats!
corebare 2 years ago
I said youtubing on a friday night, a phrase that means your a loser with nothing else to do on the prime night of the week to socialize. your response = FAIL as does your sexlife you willy wonka looking dipshit
xSayHiToTheBadGuyx 2 years ago
@xSayHiToTheBadGuyx - Read the above comment. It pertains to you and your hilarious and well-thought-out comment. BTW, a high school education is your friend. (Look into it.)
corebare 2 years ago
Comment removed
corebare 2 years ago
hahaha get a life
rhinoman6969 2 years ago
get a jobbbbbbb
xSayHiToTheBadGuyx 2 years ago
@xSayHiToTheBadGuyx
Hey Drinking beer and watching hockey is all im good at :P
mikeissocool19 2 years ago 2
He's to me is the best there ever !!!! His slapshots are undeniable if you look the goalies can't even drop to make an attempt it's already in the goal =) it is soooooo funny to watch
TominatorX2 2 years ago
Gretzky is the best and would've been the best today too. Common tryna compare ovechkin to him a like a slap in the face. Thurr's far more better players than ovechkin too. Lemieux, Yzerman, Jagr, Sakic to name a few...need i say more?
sumguy1973 2 years ago
If you took away all of gretzkys goals, he would still be the leader of all time in points.
ovetchkin only had 112 points in the 07-08 season...gretzky had 200 points in more than 1 season.
kickapoo42 2 years ago
not all goals have to be hard guys, its just cuz he actually made them. gretzky was better than anyone you can name. better than ovi malkin crosby datsyuk and lemieux.
kickapoo42 2 years ago 2
Nice try, Poo Kicker!!!! Ovechkin is the greatest hockey player ever!!!! Already by the age of 24 he established himself as the best ever!!!!
TheMJtheGOD 2 years ago
not even on the radar as the best ever, maybe one day
lh141 2 years ago
gretzky was better.
kickapoo42 2 years ago
im not the biggest gretzky fan but i think if gretzky was in his 20's today he would still score 60-70 goals a season
redmenrule 2 years ago
I am sorry, those goalies back then were shit, any goalie today would of stopped some of those.. but equitment plays a huge factor
Arrovv 2 years ago
the goalies sucked for everyone else too, but he still managed to be VERY superior than anyone else in terms of points back then.
francoisbeaudry8922 2 years ago
just as good as they are today.
kickapoo42 2 years ago
crosby sucks ass redwings beat his ass any day
Codplayer418 2 years ago
visit shottec . com
Bhockey179 2 years ago
The game was very different those days. Nothing to take away from Gretzky, but many of his records would be impossible today.
PVAimo 2 years ago
i agree, the game is faster and far more aggressive now, if only Ron Hextall was still playing, he'd give that crosby pussie a piece of his mind! lol
nikebauer1993 2 years ago
More aggressive...LOL omfg lol!
java68 2 years ago
Lemieux is the greatest (period)
rmpimpin911 2 years ago
only in your mind, which is obviously limited.
MajinBadat 2 years ago
I think if you watched an entire game from 85-88 you would see how great Gretzky was. He saw the ice better than anybody, and he was able to steal pucks unlike anyone ever before or since. If you watched the Canada Cup where Lemieux scored the famous goal, the MVP of the tournament was Gretzky. He did so many things to dominate every aspect of the game when he was motivated, and you will not see that from Ovechkin. Crosby and Malkin are not even close to Mario and Jagr, the game is weak today!
cddorcas1 2 years ago
Just give Ovechkin time to learn a little bit more. Right now I'll agree that he's a big puck hog, but he's still a great player. Crosby and Malkin were highly touted, but I don't think they'll ever see Gretzky records. I don't think anybody in the NHL, again, will see Gretzky records.
ActoneSUCKA 2 years ago
gretzky had alot of assists to he wasnt always a puck hog and besides if u had a chance to get 50 goals in 39 games would you play like normal or go for the record
monkeyzrule111 2 years ago
You're def right... No one will ever see gretzkys records, because look at these goals hes scoring. there might as well not be a goalie in net they are so bad. those shots are not hard and they are right on the ice where a 10 year old goalie doing a basic butterfly would stop those. ovi, crosby, malkin, datsyuk, and more > gretzky. Its a joke watching these goals
GooseLeagueGamers 2 years ago
your just jealus because he wasnt on your favorite team.
kickapoo42 2 years ago
Wayne at the end of his career was still a top 20-30 player in the NHL. Mario came out of retirement and dominated only a few years ago. Now imagine Gretzky and Lemieux with the new light equipment and sticks. Remember that the equipment back then was very heavy and small. Gretzky and Lemieux dominated everytime they had the puck back then, and if they were young today they would dominate today as well. Ovechkin can score, but he doesn't dictate the entire game day in day out.
cddorcas1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
These goals are horrible. Empty netters, goals flailing around aimlessly. The game was clearly a different game back then.
Stripper4Girlz 2 years ago
he didn't need to be eye candy man. he's the great one.
MecalPetree 2 years ago 2
wat are u talking about wayne grezky way better than oveckin
billsfan1818 2 years ago 2
I'm sorry but you're leaving out a key component of the Ovechkin Gretzky argument...the GOALTENDING was unbelievably bad when Gretzky broke all of his records...Ovechkin is facing butterfly goaltending that prevents 50% of Gretzky's goals...Gretzky is still the best...technically...but its clear who has more individual talent...OVECHKIN
keymastercp70 2 years ago
Yeah... Mike Liut, Tom Barrasso, Ron Hextall, John Vanbiesbrouck, Grant Fuhr, Andy Moog, Billy Smith... all incredibly bad goalies.
As far as individual talent goes, Ovechkin doesn't come close to Mario Lemieux. He's good, but nowhere near Mario.
TheRealDerfMan 2 years ago 4
you're just making a bad argument that doesnt even DESERVE a response...whybugus above says what I need to say
keymastercp70 2 years ago
Keym, thanks for your response, and proving to me that you don't know the game. Yes, Patrick Roy changed the game with his technique, but that doesn't mean that goalies who came before him were "unbelievably bad". Yes, the equipment's changed, but it goes both ways. How many more points would 99 and 66 have gotten if they played with composite sticks?
I was basically pointing at your poor choice of words. My point is that Dryden, Parent, Esposito and others I named were not "unbelievably bad".
TheRealDerfMan 2 years ago
your right it was a poor and hasty choice of words...composite sticks are a huge advantage that new players have over today's goalies... we'll see how Ov's career turns out
keymastercp70 2 years ago
@TheRealDerfMan All excellent goaltenders... in their day. When I was a young netminder coming up Vanbiesbrouck was my idle. My point was that Grezky, and those mid 80's Oiler teams were ahead of their time and goalies and goaltending technique took a while to catch up. By the early 90's, the playing field was leveling out and you didn't see crazy point totals like that so much anymore.
khabibissell 1 year ago
@khabibissell The Oilers were indeed ahead of their time. They had three of the best players of their day in Gretzky, Messier and Coffey. And I also can't disagree that the goaltending technique caught up in the early 90's where goalies were playing a much better butterfly than Tony Esposito did. My comment was directed at those who say outright that "the goalies in the 80's sucked ass", which in my eyes, they didn't. The technique wasn't what it is today, but they sure didn't suck ass either.
TheRealDerfMan 1 year ago
Again, yes the goalies are better for two main reasons. 1) Good athletes opt to be goalies more often now than in the past. 2 The goaltending equipment is much bigger. Look how skinny the goalies looked back then. At the same time however today's composite hockey sticks are modern skates are also much much better. That's why all the players today seem to be able to wire the puck and to skate so well. more -->
whybugus 2 years ago
Throw in the increased use of supplements today (eg Creatine) that were not widespread in the 80s. (I took Creatine for 3 months and experienced a 15% strength gain in squats and bench press). That's why you can't readily compare players from different eras. What we do know however is that when Gretzky was in his absolute prime there was no other player who was close to him. You can't say that about Ovechkin, Crosby, or Malkin.
whybugus 2 years ago
Whybugus, you're absolutely correct. Anybody trying to compare let's say Ovechkin with Gretzky, Orr, or Richard doesn't get how you can't compare eras. Coaches like Scotty Bowman, Roger Nielson, and we can even argue Jacques Lemaire, changed the way the game is played. I don't doubt that Bobby Orr would have the talent to score 50 goals if he played today, but would he be able to? The game is so different now that he probably wouldn't be able to score even 40 in today's game. Who knows, right?
TheRealDerfMan 2 years ago
hmmm maybe you shuld check out the equipment they used back then is like nothing compared to today using lumber stick that had no curve how could you say they couldnt have those records in todays game?
imtheweedman1992 2 years ago
keymastercp70, the new rules of the NHL would have served gretzky's style more than ever. he would be better today than he was then
rhynerisdead 2 years ago
Gretzky was a great hockey player, and for his time. Ovechkin is a great hockey player... for his time. In 25 years, Ovechkin will seem dated, just like Gretzky. You can't compare today with yesterday. Just take them for what they are for the time that they are in. In 25 years, the equipment will be even lighter, the ice synthetic allowing players to go twice as fast, the conditioning will be even better... well, you get the picture.
freudling 2 years ago 2
It's a joke to even compare. Look back at the record years for Gretzky. Look at his point totals and then look for second place. No other player in any sport has EVER dominated the way Gretzky did. Bad goal tending or not, he also had a heavier stick and equipment to skate with. There has yet to be 1 player to dominate the way he did. Gretz had 28 more goals and 27 more assists than the next highest point getters in each category. Mario was the most talented player EVER and Gretzky the best.
cddorcas1 2 years ago
thats actually a really good comment. i respect what mario did more than i respect wayne, not anything against wayne but the way mario overcame everything that would have stopped most to be the most dominate player in the game for years and arguably of all time amazes me. he missed two months of a season due to chemotherapy and came back and won the scoring title.
lh141 2 years ago
Everyone else in Gretzky's day was shooting against those same goalies, but Gretzky was beating them by 65-79 points in the scoring race during his prime. Ovechkin didn't even win the last scoring race, and lost another to Crosby 2 years before that. While he is certainly a great player, he does NOT dominate the league like Gretzky did. When Gretzky was in his prime, he was winning scoring races by the all-star break, and had seasons with more assists than anyone else had points.
shazariahl 2 years ago 2
Have you ever tried tried a skateboard from the 70s?
If you skateboarded in the 70s then you would be using 70s skateboards, no helmets and no pads. Unless you are the best in the world today I doubt very much you would be the best in the world back then either. You would probably fall off crack your skull and give up?
whybugus 2 years ago
Not to mention Rodney Mullen would still be 100 times better than you. No offense if you are a great skateboarder, but seriously. Anyway, Gretzky owns Ovechkin, but Ovechkin still owns.
swbright 2 years ago
To everyone comparing today's players to Gretzky.....
If I skateboarded in the 1970's, I would be the best in the world.
It is called relativity and evolution!! Stay in school.
joellyos 2 years ago
For those of you suggesting that the goalies were bad back then, I'd suggest that you watch the whole game.
Gretzky scored 5 goals but had many more chances. Pete Peters robbed Gretzky of 3-4 other great chances.
The only problem that I have with this record is the empty netter. Gretzky scored more empty net goals than anyone which is a record in itself, but I'd have preferred it if he'd have scored such an important goal on a goalie.
camper88 2 years ago
thats a good point, but i think it is still pretty special that he scored 4 other ones on a goalie in the same game.
Also many players slowdown when they are near a milestone and can feel the pressure but not the great one!
bottabing 2 years ago
it seems like all his record breaking goals were on open nets or just tap ins from the side of the net
lh141 2 years ago
No one will ever touch this record. It was all offense back then. Goalies are so much better now, and teams don't have as many defensive breakdowns. Hell you're lucky to see a 2 on 1 in a game today. Back then you'd see at least a couple per period.
Imagine Ovechkin playing in the 80's....He'd destroy Gretzky's records (well maybe not any of his assist records), but he'd break the 92 goal mark ...I know, I know, not really fair to compare different eras, but still....
TheVladinator16 2 years ago
Yes ofc, he took icehockey to a new step, but i think its importent to see how much better he is than the other players instead. No1 could touch him, now the goalies have bigger padses and so, but you get also better practice conditions, and sports have been taken more seriously.
Qvistern 2 years ago
The goalies weren't as good, but if they were so easy to score on, why didn't anyone else have 200 points in a season ever? He won scoring races by 70-80 points on a yearly basis. Yet all those other guys were shooting against the same goalies he was. If goalies were so terrible, why couldn't anyone else come within 80 points of him? He dominated more than any player ever.
shazariahl 2 years ago
Shut up. You are gonna ruin all of the shit talking on Gretz that people want to come up with.
dkickboxer 2 years ago
he was a great player but goalies had no clue what to do back then its a whole different story...
runegodd022 2 years ago
goalies blew back then. most of the goals in this game wouldnt have gone in today
jstemz 3 years ago
Whenever you see a video of the greatest players it looks like the goalies and other players suck. Look at some of the videos where Lemieux makes Borque look silly. Come on we're talking about Borque one of the top 5 defencemen of all time!! If Wayne Gretzky was from this generation he would be quicker, faster, and stronger than before because of conditioning, nutritional, training, and equipment advances and he would dominate the exact same way as he did back then.
whybugus 2 years ago
come on though, a simple butterfly in today's days would stop so many of the goals from back in the day. half the time the goalies didnt even drop down of course a low shot will go in. i wont take away from his speed, intelligence, great hands and shot, but against goalies today with their pad sizes and butterfly style,his pts would no doubt be not nearly as high. so ovie and crosby n geno doin what they do in todays type of game is incredible. avg goals a game bck then was higher than today too
jstemz 2 years ago
If it was so simple then everyone else would have been scoring like Gretzky. In his prime for 3-4 years, Gretzky had more assists than the second best scorer had points. Gretzky was much better than everyone else during his early prime years. You can't even begin to compare Crosby to Gretzky. In Crosby's early prime years (i.e. now) one could argue that Malkin and Ovie are better. From 1982-1987 there was noone who was even close to Gretzky.
whybugus 2 years ago 2
everyone did score more, note how i said the avg goals per game for a team was higher when gretzky played than now. i didnt say crosby only, i also mentioned malkin and ovechkin. gretzky got assists bc the goalies werent as good despite who was shooting. when gretzky was avg at 100 and some pts from 79 to 93, the gpg avg never dropped below 7.03 and was at 8.03 at one time. now the gpg is about 5.5 so yes the goalies and defense were weaker there were stats to prove it
jstemz 2 years ago
The only valid way to begin to compare players across different eras is to understand how dominant the players were/are compared to other players of the same era. Again, in his prime for 3-4 years, Gretzky had more assists than the second best scorer had points. Gretkzy's dominance over his contemporaries (during his prime) is unequalled.
whybugus 2 years ago
Man your so wrong about that you cant compare people to how well they did compared to other players in there time its stupid, like jstemz said and hes right the gaolies now adays are alot better and its way harder to scare goals
bigc151bitch 2 years ago
Yes the goalie equipment is bigger there are more good goalies today but that does not mean Crosby, Malkin, and/or Ovechkin would have scored 200 points four seasons in a row (let alone one) using an old wooden hockey stick and old-style skates in the 80s.
whybugus 2 years ago
Gretzky the great!!!
pedersen134 3 years ago
this guy says "reh-CORD" hahah
rondo2KG 3 years ago
The reason why the pads are so huge now is cuz the goalies are SHIT today.... When the league was smaller, we had way more talent to spread around...
Gretzky and Bobby Orr are the best players that ever lived...
I like the noob below who wrote "but definetely probably the highest point getter".... Moron
ThaOShow 3 years ago
i think mario lemiux is on that list
lh141 2 years ago
Boss
BillaBilla18 3 years ago
i dont think hes the best player skill wise but definetely probably the highest point getter and the goalies back then were shit compared to today aswell and that is just my opinion so noone freak out
gorockgo123 3 years ago
What people forget is he was the ultimate play maker. Even back then he wasn't the fastest, the strongest, nor was he hardest shot. Nothing would change today. He'd still be underestimated.
lcradioprod 3 years ago 2
As I look at the video and consider your comments...I think I actually have to agree. The pads and equipment that these goalies were using in those days were so small that it was almost like just another player standing in goal. The days goalies have huge wide blockers, pads, glove and stick. Still, Gretzky's puck-handling and shot-creating ability would have made him a star in any era.
rentankonko 3 years ago
Not any era. He would not have survived the 6 team era. Not a chance. Besides, I would take Lemieux over Gretzky any day of the week.
dmellis98 3 years ago
Really? Lemieux missed way more games than Wayne did, and had less points. He also had less points per game, and his prime lasted way fewer yeras. Wayne AVERAGED 180 points/year for his first 10 years. Lemieux only had what... 1 season that broke 180? Wayne had 4 seasons over 200, Lemieux had 0. Wayne holds every career and single season record of worth - Lemieux is always 2nd. Wayne was a way better playmaker too - 163 assists! Lemieux's best season for assists ties Wayne's 8th best season.
shazariahl 2 years ago
I'll say it again. Lemieux is a way better hockey player then Gretzky. Had Lemieux had the team that Gretzky had in the early 80's, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Lemieux has SHIT teams to play for. (Except for three years), Gretzky was loaded with great talent.
So, these stats that you are tossing in my direction, tell that to the tourists. I am fully aware of those stats.
I am also aware of the fact that once Gretzky left Edmonton, he never won another cup.
dmellis98 2 years ago
wow stop talking u fag, there's no way lemieux is better than Gretzky, NO WAY
DX231 2 years ago
Thanks for coming out. Now learn how to conduct yourself like an adult as opposed to a high school dropout.
dmellis98 2 years ago
im not even in high scool yet fucktard. and if u think that mario's better then Gretzky, then just compare there stats, ha Gretzky was a +98 at the end of one of his seasons. mario didnt even break 40+. yea lemme tell ya hes a way better player to have on ur team.
DX231 2 years ago
let me tell you that mario is the best, wayne played on an elite team arguably the best team ever assembled, mario had 3 years with a solid team and thy won 2 cups, as soon as wayne sold out he never won another and he never won an olympic gold, in the big time games wayne could never get it done alone, mario always could. thats the difference. and in their prime years mario had more points per game than wayne did.
lh141 2 years ago
Gretzky's 1st season he tied for scoring title. Messier had 12 goals, Oilers were 16th out of 21 teams. Not an elite team. 2nd season? Oilers were 14th and didn't secure a playoff spot until the final day of the season. Gretzky broke the assist and points records. 3rd season? Kuri arrived in the NHL and had 85 points. Coffee was 2nd in team scoring with 105. Gretzky had over double that with 212. Don't tell me it was his teammates when he had over 2x as many points as the next closest guy.
shazariahl 2 years ago 2
@shazariahl that's an excellent point. The way I see it is, Gretzky was the most effective scorer but Lemieux had more raw talent and finesse. A lot of the time, you wouldn't hear Gretzky's name a lot during the game, but by the end of the night he had 3 points. Lemieux was better at making defensemen look silly. They were both incredible players, and it's ridiculous to compare them to Ovechkin, Crosby, Malkin, etc like some guys do. They're not even close to either of those two players.
aibangmaini 2 years ago
mario had cancer missed two months and beat wayne for the art ross. that commands respect. wayne said himself mario is a better player. and mario had a better points per game average when he retired the first time it wasnt until he came back for the last few years that his ppd average dropped. through the 80s and 90s mario was a more dominant player, look it up ppg averages dont lie.. mario was the best player in waynes prime.
lh141 2 years ago
Those weren't Wayne's prime years though. His prime were the 6 straight years he averaged over 200 pts (something Lemieux never did even once). If you want his "extended" prime, its the 10 seasons he averaged over 180 points (something Lemieux only did once). The years Gretzky went to the Kings were NOT his prime years. Gretzky's best seasons PPG are better than Lemieuxs best PPG - and his career PPG are better despite playing 500 more games. Like you said, PPG don't lie.
shazariahl 2 years ago
@shazariahl
lol you're a complete idiot.
1. those 80s oilers were a much better team than lemieux ever was on, filled with hall of famers. that makes the difference between their best seasons rather meaningless. the drastic drop in gretzky points after being traded to the kings speaks for itself.
2. lemieux retired while still at a decent age, only to come back later and play older than gretzky ever did. he also played injured a lot. your 500 more games shit is just plain retarded.
joyfulvulture 1 year ago
@joyfulvulture
Mario had teams filled with hall of famers too, he wouldn't have won the cup without them.
And for the drastic drop when Gretzky went to the Kings, he went from 2.33 ppg to 2.15 ppg, drastic... and don't forget he went from the Cup winning team to the 18th place team.
Actually the drop is more significant after being badly injured in Canada Cup 91, especially his goal scoring ability, he never scored more than 40 goals after that (and he got older too...).
Irato99 1 year ago
@joyfulvulture 1. As I already said, Gretzky's 212 pt year the next closest Oiler had 105 points, Coffey. Kurri and Messier both had less than 90. Gretzky had more goals than that. It BECAME a great team, but the first few years they were lower half of the NHL.He still broke the records.
2. Lemieux's team wasn't as good, but he only broke180 pts. once. Gretzky averaged that for 10 years. Gretzky's production dropped as he aged - just like Lemieux.
3. You aren't very joyful. Change your name.
shazariahl 1 year ago 4
Gretzky's totals dropped for the most part because hockey got harder, why you think it's so hard to get 120 points today. The only person standing a chance to reach 130 or more points in this era is Crosby. By the way the goalies were absolute shit back then it's pretty easy to see. Just look at how they don't even play stand up correctly or haven't started the use of the butterfly which greatly increased the degree to score in the NHL The talent in this era is far greater then the old era.
OneBloodOneGame 1 year ago
@shazariahl True, but Lemieux had a lot of really bad injuries not to mention cancer. if you want a player who's less play making and sheer personal talent i choose Lemieux, if you want someone who is an amazing play maker its Gretzky.
9999necron 6 months ago
@ lh141
'mario had cancer missed two months and beat wayne for the art ross'
In case you didn't know (Mario fans usually don't know hockey very much), that year when Mario had cancer, Gretzky missed half of the season from injuries. So I don't know why it's so a big deal that Mario beat Wayne for the Art Ross.
Mario also said Wayne was the best, who do you believe?
Irato99 2 years ago
Ya, Gretzky actually missed more games than season than Lemieux.
shazariahl 2 years ago
@Irato99 so mario had cancer and played wayne was a little less seriously injured than that i suppose.
lh141 2 years ago
wish i could have watched the oiler game somewhere else edmonton lost 3-2
serenades73 3 years ago
being around negative people really effects me,damn broken earphones
serenades73 3 years ago
Sorry bret but thats the best there is the best there was and the best there ever will be.
SPR00KS 3 years ago
finally some footage that isn't just a bunch of specs.
hizzleeee 3 years ago
the best player off all time
canadiancrippler89 3 years ago 4
the music is so cool
Walrustitty97 3 years ago
Made everything look easy
boaker10 3 years ago 2
Great footage! Thanks!
EDEEB7 3 years ago 3
plz comment
hockeygangsta87 3 years ago