@class2b Actually no, that's not armor. That's a clay form that goes under the armor which outlines the vitals area that the armor is supposed to protect. It's used to also show backface deformation.
@raxeon The creator of Dragonskin Murray Neal is in the video at 1:38. You see him face the camera at around 2:06.
This is the video after the heat test in which the armor is exposed to a common high heat for several hours. The ceramic discs feel apart and the 7.62x51 bullet passed through with no resistance as there was nothing there. DS armor failed during both government tests at the heat and disel fuel/chemical durability testing.
@raxeon The video is more than conclusive. It was shown before Congress and Murray himself was pointed out while being questioned. Dragonskin hype was so overblown that it became the only armor to get a Congressional hearing and a second round of testing under very heavy scrutiny. The armor failed both times. Congress lambasted Murray for wasting their time. The results were made public. Under optimal conditions the armor works fine. Combat is usually not under optimal conditions.
@rawdenashitey different agencies and plus most of them are civilians. the general V.I.Ps don't be stupid guy the govt only cares about them so marinate in the knowledge instead of answering your own question
@rawdenashitey - It was originally advertised by the company as being NIJ lv IV before they even had the certification then when they got caught they tried to get it certified but were denied to which they filed an appeal. But that doesn't stop them from actually selling the vests they just can't advertise or endorse them as being a lvl 4 vest. it's all in the wiki which is where i'm sure you got the info about the cia and especially the generals (since they do not advertise that information)
Something to consider, you generally aren't going to be locked in place when your shot or taking shrapnel, and usually if it hits a vest, it's going to take you off your feet because the energy of impact being pushed around you not through you. So even if you soaked the thing in motor oil or laundry detergent, or heated up in an oven, i'd still like to think that if it was on a soft target that can be pushed around it'll still work pretty effectively.
Mail call, future weapons, and countless other tests have been done on this armor and ALL of them except the military's test have shown it to be flawless! The military denied Dragon Skin before testing it. The simple truth is that the military does not want to pay for new state of the art armor.
@turayde You do realize the military banned Dragonskin before testing it was because they were claiming NIJ certification before the NIJ ever gave them any such certification? That's a very big no no.
It had nothing to do with the military "out to get DS" but rather the DS guys being idiots.
@turayde It's not. The concept is sound but there are too many issues that follow it. You can't repair a vest in the field where as monolith plates can be swapped out if damaged. The discs fall off in binding/bending areas in the armpit and stomach areas after hard use. Weight is a huge thing right now and NIJ IV rated weigh a ton. Too many downsides especially when lots of guys want to move to smaller plate carriers than full vests.
@Luishazong No you wouldn't. The discs falling out near binding locations like the armpits and stomach leave huge uncovered holes. The armpit area is around your chest and at an oblique is a path straight to your heart and/or lungs. The weight is a major issue if you're running up a hill maneuvering around some Muj, ambushing your guys.
Those are situations that put your life at greater risk than normal.
hmmm strange that 3 different independent tests showed this armor to work but 1 army test shows it to fail ? I smell skunk shit here , somthing isnt adding up
yeah. how come the video is in bits and not streamed. i guess the dragon skin maker dude wants too much money for the shit. it looks legit. so why arent we using it?
@slimddozen money aint the issue, reports were going around of family members getting back dragon skin vests that they bought for loved ones in the war, the army had banned it all together.
Even if it fails under extreme temperatures and chemicals I would still use it. Maybe bring it out in at night only or during winter. Use interceptor during hot day patrols. Perhaps it could be allocated to special forces only to manage the cost. The increased mulitple shot capability is worth it.
It's been what at least 3 years now since DS came out. I'm sure that problem (if it really was legit) was fixed long ago. I wonder why Murray the CEO of Pinnacle hasn't talked. I wonder if he was threatened by the military to supress the technology while the other manufacturer has the contract. Eventually this superior armor will get into the market here or abroad and be produced by foreign corporations, not even the US military can stop that! I bet someone is doing it now.
@tecnolover2642 The company filed for bankruptcy. His shady practices, extreme cost to purchase/repair, and also the weight of the armor killed off many of his police buyers as well. At some point, no one wanted to buy the stuff. So it's pretty much gone.
To be honest, other testers have given DS a thumbs down for anything other than an air conditioned firing range.
@tecnolover2642 You do realize that the DS body armor fails in "extreme weather conditions." That is in hot heat (ie. Iraq, Afghanistan) or bellow freezing temperatures or after submersion in liquid the adhesive used fails and shot penetrations were occurring first try. He's avoid bad PR for his company claiming NIJ III protection when they were never NIJ certified. Your conspiracy theories hold no water, go get some meds for your paranoia.
@SkInHoUnD you're cool. go be a keyboard warrior somewhere else douchebag. People who serve in the military and who many have loved ones serving want to know. Now sit down. Shut the fuck up and let the adults talk. Or go indulge in some cock. You're a faggot wrapped in a rainbow. Have a nice day.
@chittyx2bangx2 Haha I love it when little kids get owned on the internet, then rebuttal with uncontrollable anger. You need a life son. No one gives a fuck about "body armour" and its obviously your bed time.
@calistarious That would be kind of hard to do. Do you see the guy with the glasses at 0:16 and 2:03? That's Murray Neal, the owner and CEO of Pinnacle who makes Dragonskin.
I admit that I was intrigued by dragonskin, but I've come to the realization that the whole conspiracy theory is just not so. 'Army banned DS before testing to protect other suppliers' is just like the moon landing hoax.
When it works I won't deny it's better than Interceptor, but it's complex and much more can go wrong than just four ballistic plates. Pinnacle unfortunately didn't address these problems and DS was banned because it was prone to failure under extreme temperatures and chemicals.
u know what... i think the army banned it because it would be wayyyy too expensive to be shot at.... i mean.. titanium plates overlapping each other.. than again, the money is worth spending to save lives
@FroznDemon2 yeah, i heard on the radio that the families of soldiers who have fallen get paid about half a million in benefits. it would be much cheaper to replace the dragonskin
if you all complain well go to iraq yourself and test it i was there and i trust the armor we use and this stuff is just as good if not better it all saves live belive me i know the vests we use today will stop 5 7.62 X 51 rounds i know i shot my plats after they were hit with shrapnal just to see and the vest itself can withstand multipul shots from a 9MM
@MaxAC40 then again the dragon skin armour was designed to take more punishment than the IBA plates in use now, so they won't have to be replaced as frequently. it is sort of a balancing act
The Army Colonel that tested Dragon Skin...barred tjhe Armies DS expert from their testing...had him fired...and then went to work for a major provider of Interceptor.
It has been reported that DS type III was tested against type V threats, the results of which were used by that Colonel to ban DS.
The Interceptor provider that the Colonel went to work for, had to recall 5000 Interceptor vests that were defective.
The inventor of Interceptor states that DS is superior to Interceptor.
@meltdown1232000 all true, but DS isn't perfect either. In the Air Forces tests Pinnacle sent them vests with faulty ceramic plates, when asked for a recall Pinnacle stated that soldiers should continue to wear the faulty armor cause "some armor is better than no armor", and even after repeated requests Pinnacle never provided corrected vests for testing. Doesn't prove anything about the army's tests but just goes to show that Pinnacle can be equally as shady.
@kerenskymkii saw one test....DS was hit over 100 times with everything from 9MM to AK rounds...then the same vest was placed over a live grenade, which was set off. It did NOT fail. If a soldier had jumped on that grenade to save his mates...he would have also lived.
Those videos are fine, but a level IIIA vest without a plate can stop multitudes of 9mm and AK rounds are not the APM2 bullets that are required to pass level IV. The grenade test was a publicity stunt in other words DS didnt let anything through but show me the video where a normal ESAPI plate system does there is none probably because they know that it would yield near the same effect and wouldn't make DS look as cool. Im not saying its bad but Pinnacle is still a money driven company.
@Rulictar Not necessarily, if the vest absorbed the initial blast, and directed the shock outward, like a shaped charge, the person would have a pretty good chance. Grenades, by design, are not really "blast" killers, but, shrapnel killers.
@meltdown1232000 The exact opposite is true. Hand grenades produce little shrapnel and most grenade and IED kills are caused by the overpressure that the explosion creates. The first Marine in Iraq to get a Medal of Honor died after he covered a grenade with his kevlar (helmet) and body. He managed to contain the explosion and prevent any others from dying by the overpressure from the blast still caused massive hemoraging in his brain and internal organs and he died a few days later.
well... i think it was a canadian soldier in afghanistan, who jumped on a RGD grenade trap, and saved his mates lives. his harris radio absorbed most of the blast. he got no serious injuries.
@TeamSmiths not trying to discredit the marine's actions, but when an explosion is contained the pressure is actually increased drastically, that is physic plain and simple. isn't the technique that is taught "hit the deck and cover your face and neck?" there is a reason that soldiers and marines wear helmets and body armour. the helmet should protect their brain from the shockwave of the explosion and shrapnel, body armour protects vital organs from the same.
@meltdown1232000 Shrapnel killers yes, but when laying directly ON the grenade the blast would have been directed outwards towards your arms, likely tearing your them off and severely wounding your neck. Good luck with that outcome...
@nicholassklavenitis You will be fine if you are not being mobile, which most troops ARE mobile since it is an inherent requirement of modern combat. Dragon Skin is way too heavy for the modern soldier, weight is a HUGE issue right now.
@skks666 12.7 is a .50 caliber.... .50 caliber simply means .50 inches which equals 12.7mm (Same thing in two different units). The .50 caliber you are likely referring to (the one we use) is the .50BMG or 12.7x99mm. When someone says .50 caliber, it simply means the bullet is .50 inches in diameter at its base, it does not refer to a specific weapon or bullet. So when Jasper Rambo-wannabe says he got a .50 caliber Desert Eagle, it doesn't mean he's firing the same round as a Barrett through it.
@W1zardF1ngers428 actually while 12,7cm is half an inch in measurement, when talking about a 12,7 round people are usually referring to the russian 12,7x108 which is a different caliber than .50BMG or .50AE. These are all different types of bullets and when someone says .50 caliber without specifying the weapon, they usually are indifferent about the differences and shouldn't be talking about bullets in the first place.
@skks666 12.7mm, not cm. Typo? : ) As far as 12.7 reference, I hear many people refer to the .50BMG in its metric configuration, and if someone spoke of a 12.7 I would think of the .50BMG not the Russian round. This may be a difference in our geography, not sure. I was simply stating that .50 caliber is improperly thought of as a specific cartridge rather than a bullet diameter. However, the BMG, AE, and Russian 12.7 are all the same CALIBER (.50/12.7mm), they are different ROUNDS. Semantics...?
@W1zardF1ngers428 Semantics perhaps, the original commentator claimed that the insurgents didn't have .50 cal in their arsenal and and I was merely correcting him by saying that they do have the 12,7x108. The .50BMG metric configuration is 12,7x99mm which is also different, but like you said, might be a matter of geography in leaving out the cartridge length. However I don't feel such inaccuracies are for the connoisseur, the same goes for just saying 7.62, which one does it mean?
@skks666 I see your point and it makes sense. I guess I am saying that when stating 7.62 it doesn't refer to any one round (unless given in context), but ONLY the bullet diameter. You could purchase 7.62 bullets and reload them into multiple different types of rounds. You are right though, when someone says 7.62 I think .308 nine times out of ten unless we are talking about AK's or something. In hindsight it definitely looks like I was looking for something wrong in your post and I apologize.
but i saw on another video a side by side test including interceptor and ds, the interceptor was penetrated by the so called "armored piercing" round and the ds deflecte the bullet. If you also watch future weapons, they put grenade beneath DS, and the result is no penetration at all....
Even the inventor of the interceptor armor told the media that dragon skin is way more better. I think the reason why the army banned the dragon skin is they ordered already interceptor and deployed it already in Iraq...
@RGM79GM1 Whether Pinnacle was right there during the test has now revalence during that test on the Dragon Armor. I say this because the Dragon Armor that was given to be tested, was delivered prior to the test, so the Personel running those tests had more than enough time to weaken the integrity of the armor, or simply sabatoge it by any means necessary.
As for why he didnt get mad, perhaps he was shocked the results were like that, perhaps he didnt want to get emotional in fear of retaliation or detainment? Either way, one fact remains true, they requested another test of the dragon armor, BUT the owners wanted to maintain possession of it all the way to the actual test, meaning NO ONE could tamper with it. They were declined a retest on numerous occasions due to this condition they wanted.
@shadowwbn He didn't look shocked to me. Seemed kinda calm like he was expecting it. You know this wasn't the first vest that failed right? As I said before you should read the Army's report of testing. Even if you think they lied thier tests are actual tests & not simply shooting it.
Apart from the fact that then no one could inspect it until tested the Army had no reason to test it again. They already had to buy 30 vests so why would they want to buy 30 more?
@shadowwbn That would be about $60,000 spent simply on testing them. As for you saying they were tampered with look at the x-rays in the Army tests and tell me where you see evidence of that. Or are you just going by Pinnacle?
Since you answered my question I have another if you don't mind. Why are you willing to accept that the Army lied but not that the guys standing to make several billion dollars could be lying? I think either could lie but in this case I belive the Army.
@xxwaterxxx Uh $1,000 times 30 vests is $30,000 and to do another test would be the same price and numbers so yeah $60,000 spent on testing. No it is level IV. They were testing SOV-3000 which is level IV. Why would they test level III armor to replace the level IV OTV? I mean going by that they'd be getting less protection for a higher price.
This is why I know this happens, about a decade ago a General/Cornel (i forget which) at Ft Campbell mandated that all soldiers were required to purchase 1 of 2 types of running shoes from Nike. I worked the 'Gut Truck' at FT campbell for over a year & I asked them whats up with everyone using the same shoes, because if they work the best, then I want to buy them, & each time I would get a very unhappy facial expression & told "EVERYONE has to use these in PT because of our commander.
@shadowwbn It does make sense for commanders picking the shoes. Maybe they had issues with people getting really really bad ones? Anyway that really has nothing to do with this. It is a completely different situation.
Anyway even if you don't trust the Army you really should look at the test results. Can't be objective if you only get stuff from one side of the arguement after all.
@shadowwbn Doesn't have to change your mind but you gotta admit that thier tests are a lot better than simply sticking it on something and shooting it.
What reason does the Army have to lie about this?
@shadowwbn You could say cost but don't forget that when a soldier gets killed they have to pay the life insurance which can be $100,000, plus they'd need to train and equip an entirely new person to replace them which could be between $10,000 and $20,000. So if DS was better and kept them alive it would be cheaper than if they got killed.
@hobofuture Doesn't really matter if the Army pays or not. Do you think that other parts of the goverment would let them do that if they were the ones that had to pay without trying to bring it up with the DOD or higher? The Army does have to pay for all the costs of a replacement though which are still higher than DS so my point still stands even if you bring life insurance out of the picture.
@hobofuture Wow that was probably the most irritating comment I have EVER read on YouTube. It comes from taxpayers, us, me, you, the people that work their ASS off. Next time the government spends billions of dollars on some liberal bailout for companies that should have been forced to dissolve, and builds bridges for turtles, and wastes money on more useless crap, you can rest assured they took it out of our paycheck. Come on, you sound like a liberal when you make such illogical statements.
@RGM79GM1 my recruiter told me it costs (very roughly) 150,000 by the time they are overseas. That's just for basic infantry though, a higher tech job would be way more
@shadowwbn Had to be delivered before testing. How else would it get inspected and they would need time to expose it to the various enviroments. The reason it would need to be inspected is to see if it got damaged during shipping. Probably other reasons also.
The money is allready divided, too big contract to be broken!
This is how the world works, of the great USA atleast!
Lets go share our democracy or Demolition Crazy to those who threat our big corporations. The Military hardware business is too big and powerfull to let Usa be without a war more then decade. Now we need to have a lottery, whats next?! Iran or one Korea's, the one they think is the bad one by flipping the coin before they charge!
@Tuuppaan Take your liberal, rainbow land fairytale shit elsewhere. You bash the one country that lets you spout your bullshit that is hardly worthy of free speech. Try whining about your home country while living in Venezuela, or under the Taliban, and you'll be wishing you lived under our 'Demolition Crazy' while you rot in prison forever or have your tongue ripped out while your wife/mother/daughter/sister is raped by some asshole for not wearing her headdress. I feel bad for people like you.
@W1zardF1ngers428 "[...] Take your liberal [...]" I was reading your comments with a lot of respect. Now I'm trying hard not to ignore them. Good job, it usually takes a lot for that to happen for me.
That video shows the biggest bunch of bullshit I have seen in a long ass time.
*They do not show the material under the armor to show it doesnt already have holes in it.
*They do not show the armor at all, its freaking taped up all to hell, and when they do remove it, that idiot is standing in the line of sight so you cant even see shit.
*Not to mention the video feed being interupted like 4 times. Plus the angle of recording changes, which you woould assume means...........
you would assume means either they have a camera man that wanted a better angle, BUT if that is the case then why didnt the camera man change its position whenever those idiots blocked his view.
So, its easy to deduce each time the video had a black out, they did something they did NOT want us to see.
Not to mention the fact that they did NOT show was weapon or bullet caliber they used, so they used a freaking 50 Cal. for all we know.
lengths, but I do unfortunetly, only because it is the ONLY reason that makes sense plus its happened so many other times in the past that it's actually not surprising.
Check out the financial record of the Interceptor, and compare it to both current generals in the US army, and the ones that recently retired around the time the selection was made. You will the greedy piece of trash that was bought off. All at the expense of our soldiers that are sacrificing EVERYTHING to defend our nation.
seriously, if enough indisputable evidence is presented, and our govt does NOT punish them for sending our soldiers out to war, without the BEST protection, I will go to their house and beat their dumbass into a coma, then when they woke up, BAM, back in a coma, this will repeat over and over again until they fuking die, this is NOT acceptable. Putting our economy at risk
for money is one thing, but for those that sacrifice EVERYTHING including their life, is BULLSHIT & will NOT be tolerated
@shadowwbn So if it is a BS test why is the owner of Pinnacle, Murray Neal, in it? Can anyone explain to me why he is there and not complaining at all if it is a BS test?
What evidence are you talking about? The tv shows that have DS? That is some bad evidence. They show whatever the episode is about in a positive light or make it seem better than it is.
There is no camera man it is on a wall or ceiling.
@shadowwbn Why would they show the armor? The guys testing it know what it is so they would have no reason to show the camera what it is. If it had holes in it before being shot why didn't Murray Neal throw a tantrum?
Weapon? They don't use a weapon it is a test barrel. As for the round it is a armor piercing .30-06. You people would know this if you read the Army's test results. Do you know anything about real armor tests?
@shadowwbn ya i didnt see any holes plus whos to say the material underneath isnt playdoh that would get fucked up if the vest was shot with a paintball gun
@gravedanger666 If that is how you feel than do you mind explaining why Murray Neal is in the video and why he isn't angry? You really can't see the holes? They shine a light into them. Shadowwbn didn't say there are no holes he thinks they were there before being shot though. Which if so once again why didn't Murray Neal get angry?
Level V armor is too heavy IMO level IV protection is between 30-50lbs so level V would be higher. Uh Level III-IV DS costs over $2,000 possibly even $5,000. There is no price figure for the level V because no one can buy it.
It is really hard to understand what you typed but it seems like you think I don't think strong armor will be around long right? If so then you are wrong. I do think DS has lots of fanboys. Proven by the fact that pointless tests are brought up and failures are ignored.
No they don't. They have a limited amount of money total and even less for armor. Maybe you can't understand this but any money used to purchase military gear is paid for by US tax payers and last I checked they do not have a infinite amount of money.
I can't understand it because your bad at spelling. You can't understand my 2nd paragraph yet you respond to it? Somehow that doesn't make sense or are you just saying you don't understand cause I did?
Yes fanboys. Anything can have a fanboy. These are people that think it is the best simply cause they are told so. They also ignore all evidence that it isn't. Ringing any bells?
No they aren't. DS isn't as good as you seem to think. The US Army and special forces members agree that it isn't that good.
Oh and if price didn't matter the F-22 would still be in production instead of the F-35. Problem was it cost too much so it was cut and replaced with something cheaper. Thanks for playing.
The army special forces are not involed with Body armor what so ever.
5 billion for all are troops to come home salfey hmmm did you know we just took out a 2trillon loan oh and the war cost several billon a year already.
Link post?
Lol thier is none.
So first read up on your information sedcond Open you mind. Third learn what are special forces do. they do Combat operations not dictating armor.
I know they don't decide the armor. However SF can legally use DS. So their opinions matter. If they hate it why would it be better for regulars?
Considering the Army tests, this video, and the opinions of SF members it would not bring them back safely. The fact that heat melts the adhesive holding the discs together it would be bad.
That is different money. The money for buying new gear is limited and split between all branches.
Google "professional soldiers dragon skin". Read the topic called "Dragon Skin Testing and the Truth". Made by a user called The Reaper.
One of the members there was even incharge of testing DS for the Army. He was a SF member before that though.
I've been reading up on this for years. My mind is open. However as I have said I trust the Army and SF more than Pinnicle. I know what they do. However they can use DS and get experiance with it and if they hate it why would regulars like it?
Oh and in that topic the other link is the first link in the first post. It shows the results of the Army test and why DS failed. This video is one of those tests.
Not sure why I can't just post the links though. When I try to it won't accept my post.Which is why you'll have to google it yourself.
@MoneyVSMetal Special Operations Forces are well versed in combat operations, and since body armor is a vital part of modern combat operations, I would say their opinion is quite weighted. Most modern tactical equipment manufacturers (Blackhawk?) are made by ex-Special Forces or experienced operators. Dragon Skin is WAY too heavy for modern combat and equipment needs. Special Forces are the ones to ask what kind of weight is viable, wouldn't you think? Stopping capability is not the only factor.
@MoneyVSMetal Actually the military doesn't have a blank check. The Air Force had to downsize by about 1000 officer and enlisted so they could afford to make upgrades to aircraft because they couldn't afford it and congress wouldn't increase their budget.
The army lies.. They are no better then the goverment.
Steel core rounds make 4th level body armor look like crap. Dragon skin makes steel core rounds look like crap.
I love how people say it's not durable nor can it withstand heat.
But yet i survied a LIVE FRAG.
A frag that generates Sevral Hundred Degrees and makes ends meat out of men.And yet when tested on dragon skin.. Frag did not penitrate dragon skin. and dragon skin was still holding.
Wow just wow. As I said before the frag is pointless foir a DS test as is the 100 9mm rounds. Both the 9mms and shrapnel are stopped by the KEVLAR not the DS. The frag may generate heat but it doesn't last long. Army heat test lasted for hours.
Not sure why so many people can't understand that the DS isn't what stops shrapnel and pistol rounds.
You are saying that it is great cause it can stop them yet simple kevlar is all that is needed to do so and is much cheaper than a DS vest.
Oh and as for the Army lying. That may be true but they don't lie about everything. Last I checked companies trying to sell a product lie also and I trust the Army a lot more than some company trying to sell something.
When looking at a $2,000,000,000 sale nearly anyone would lie. BTW I get $2,000,000,000 from going with a $1,000 DS price times 2,000,000 US military(closer to 3,000,000 though) personel. It is atleast 2(I think 5) times more than that really as that is the price of the OTV.
@MoneyVSMetal You know absolutely nothing about armor and ballistics beyond what Mac says on Future Weapons. My engine block can do the same thing, why don't we sew that into a vest and give it to our soldiers? You are missing the point my friend. We are not disputing its ability in such situations that you described, but rather that its mere ability is a moot point. Its ability to do these things does not make it BETTER, unless it does these things under certain conditions or constraints.
I've seen aftermath photos and know personnel who have survived ballistic threats from small arms and frag wearing RBR M-TAC 300 and BAE Systems IOTV NIJ IIIA kevlar aramid fiber kevlar body armor with NIJ IVA monolithic ablative ceramic plates.
The lack of battle proven testing and controversy does not make me feel this is a gamble I want to take. If Dragon Skin cannot withstand prolonged miserable conditions and its durability is short-lived, it is not worth its outrageous $5000+ price tag
Basically any ballistic vest can be penetrated by a knife. DS, the OTV, the MTV, & the IOTV are all meant to stop bullets but were not made to stop blades. They have to be made differently to stop blades.
Some vests can stop both but they are probably heavy and are deffinetly more expensive.
They probably aren't made to stop knives since generally the wearers would be armed with rifles and could kill most knife wielders before they got close enough.
@gunmadkiller This is also very true, all forms of "soft armor" such as ballistic kevlar (not to be confused with the "hard" ballistic kevlar resin matrixes used to make combat helmets) are susceptible to knives/stabbing weapons; only the plates offer protection at this point.
Even Dragon Skin will not be able to solve this problem, and as you've mentioned, vests are designed in mind with the thought that the shooter can defeat a knife-wielding opponent with his firearm.
For anyone saying the video is fake the guy with the mustache is the guy in charge of pinnical. <_<
As for the frag the Dragon skin had nothing to do with no penetrations. Soft body armor as in kevlar stops the fragments not the hard armor same with the 9mm rounds.
Oh and about it being banned before testing IIRC the Air Force tested it before the Army and it fell apart and was then banned. Then a new version was made and the Army tested it. Don't quote me on it though.
...The Army are the ones saying it sucks. <_< They are also the ones that say it can't handle tough conditions. If you can find it I reccomend reading the Army report for testing.
What isn't true BTW?
You mean the air force test or the vest they tested? If you mean the test I don't think so. IIRC they didn't even shoot it. It just fell apart. Which is why they banned it. Then Pinnacle went back to the drawing board and made the current DS several years later.
surely there arent several companies deeply invested in the military and all have patents on the interceptor model armor. And surely they wouldn't rig a test to fail for the new guy on the block, who coincidentally wont share the patent with the other companies.
surely the military wouldn't protect its previous investors becuase wars aren't ever fought for profit... right?
just like the M16 tests back in Korea wern't rigged to fail... o wait.
@NoahHoe You are referring to the military-industrial complex, and its presence is always influencing decisions, but rarely dominating them. Wars are rarely fought FOR profit, but they certainly create profit for many companies, as does nearly any action in a market economy. You must remember that many companies make much lower profit margins off the government military contracts, and usually vie for the contracts because it says more about the quality of their product than for profit margins.
@wigtrimer Dragonskin comes in several different ratings. The higher ratings can indeed stop 308 and 8mm. Google search around for the reports & vids.
@LemmeLieHere Its mere ability to stop these rounds is no feat, my engine block does so as well, should I sew it into a vest and make someone wear it? If you were in combat, the vest would be way too heavy for you carry much of your equipment that you needed. Weight is the biggest problem with Dragon Skin.
@LemmeLieHere Its mere ability to stop these rounds is no feat. My engine block can do this too, should I sew it into a vest and make someone wear it? Dragon Skin is way too heavy to be used in combat situations, since you would not be able to carry much of your equipment that you need. Its not all about stopping capability, weight is VERY important to any soldier, the armor isn't stopping anything that other armor cannot stop. The plates are irreplaceable as well, which is impractical.
@W1zardF1ngers428 Do you really have nothing better to do than reply to year-old comments like mine? 8 of the posts on this page are from you.
As for weight, basic SOV-2000 DragonSkin vest weighs 5.5 lbs., basic Interceptor vest weighs 8.4 lbs. This is without all of the inserts, groin protection, etc. You are right about the plates not being replaceable, but most of your arguments here are nitpicking. Stop trolling.
If your engine block is so great, sew it into a vest and go swimming.
@LemmeLieHere The SOV-3000, not 2000 is comparable to an IBA with ESAPI plates inserted. Compare apples to apples my friend. A full Interceptor vest XL weighs around 31 lbs with EVERYTHING, including the additional armor protection. Now you tell me how much an SOV-3000 weighs with everything else? I think Dragon Skin is revolutionary, but it needs more development and work. Your last statement was moronic. Make logical arguments like the middle part. I'm nitpicking? Really? It's BODY ARMOR...
@W1zardF1ngers428 I don't think the plates need to be replaced most of the time, even after the vest is shot, considering the more than 100 rounds of ammunition they put through these vests while testing them. And they're NOT too heavy. I've got a good friend who is a police officer and on the SWAT team, everyone else on that team, my brother included, wears dragon skin armor. Fully geared, they weigh close to a typical soldier, and they can perform just fine, so I'm not buying your argument.
@nick42701 - just so you know rick I am a former US Marine and I can tell you a full load-out for us is WAY more than your typical police officer even swat lol. Interceptor vest + sapi plates = 25lbs then + 40lb rucksack + 10-20lbs of gear/ammo (depending on your position in the squad you could have 249 barrels etc) yeah we're way overloaded sometimes lol. I work corrections now and I can tell you from wearing my dragonskin vest (I purchased one) they're WAY lighter feeling
@nick42701 - Actually sir it is HIGHLY recommended whenever your bulletproof vest takes any impact to replace the protective elements that holds especially true to the vests issued to our military by Point Blank (US ARMY) the IOTV (Improved Outer Tactical Vest or "Interceptor") and protective products something or other (can't remember) MTV (Modular Tactical Vest) (US Marines)which rely on large single element ceramic plates to stop rounds.
Army test lab said the adhesive that holds the Dragonskin disks in the matrix degrades at high temperature. Pinnacle Arms (maker of Dragonskin) said they fixed the problem and want a retest... which is taking a reeaalllyy long time. Some even claim the original test was fixed, and tested at higher temp. than normal. Who knows who's telling the truth anymore.
However, I've seen other tests, & they look impressive.
If I were in combat, & I could afford it, I'd buy Dragonskin.
this is a false test the bullet didnt even hit on the side they are showing it hit on the left hand side (as you would be wearing it) at the black holder this test was a scam and need to be retested by the Real Army the men fighting useing the Interceptor
fake, the video is a fake, look where the bullet penatrated the armor, and look where they are taking pictures, first off the armor was strapped on prior to us seeing the back, so how do we know the hole wasn't there before, and the bullet hit the left strap below the horizontal strap, and the bullet hole was much higher and more towards the right, and how do we know it's actually dragon skin? all it shows it armor being shot, very questionable especially for a military test.
that cant be right the hit is to high up from where the actual round hit the vest
BlackBEAR4533 2 months ago
at 1:21 you can see the shape of the armor which is the interceptor not dragon skin. Dragon skin has scale like layers
class2b 4 months ago
@class2b Actually no, that's not armor. That's a clay form that goes under the armor which outlines the vitals area that the armor is supposed to protect. It's used to also show backface deformation.
brainplay 2 months ago
how does interceptor do in this test?
RichardPortis 4 months ago
can we wear dragon skin and interceptor together ? 2 in 1 ?
moistfaucet 4 months ago
@moistfaucet Do you like wearing 70lbs of armor before adding another 50lbs of ammo and gear on top of that?
brainplay 4 months ago
@brainplay, i did not know the armor that heavy.
moistfaucet 4 months ago
Believable government test. From a government that told us about "saddam's nooookular" bombs.
ThePatriotMuckraker 5 months ago
What are the perameters of this test?? What was used? is that really dragon skin?? This video is without anything to back up anything?!?!?
raxeon 5 months ago
@raxeon The creator of Dragonskin Murray Neal is in the video at 1:38. You see him face the camera at around 2:06.
This is the video after the heat test in which the armor is exposed to a common high heat for several hours. The ceramic discs feel apart and the 7.62x51 bullet passed through with no resistance as there was nothing there. DS armor failed during both government tests at the heat and disel fuel/chemical durability testing.
brainplay 4 months ago
@brainplay And they could also be testing other armor, cause the armor itself is not shown, this video is inconclusive.
raxeon 4 months ago
@raxeon The video is more than conclusive. It was shown before Congress and Murray himself was pointed out while being questioned. Dragonskin hype was so overblown that it became the only armor to get a Congressional hearing and a second round of testing under very heavy scrutiny. The armor failed both times. Congress lambasted Murray for wasting their time. The results were made public. Under optimal conditions the armor works fine. Combat is usually not under optimal conditions.
brainplay 4 months ago
@brainplay I'm talking about this video, where in the hell do you see any congress?? LMAO!!
raxeon 4 months ago
@rawdenashitey different agencies and plus most of them are civilians. the general V.I.Ps don't be stupid guy the govt only cares about them so marinate in the knowledge instead of answering your own question
xaploq1 5 months ago
Did they use a 50.cal Armor Piercing Round or what?
thepuma117 6 months ago
ok future weapons tested this vest and it stopped some of the biggest rounds.. and a grenade???? wtf???
yourcomingoffstupid 7 months ago
so if this body armour failed why does some agencies including the CIA, sscret service and generals in afghanistan use it??
rawdenashitey 9 months ago
@rawdenashitey - It was originally advertised by the company as being NIJ lv IV before they even had the certification then when they got caught they tried to get it certified but were denied to which they filed an appeal. But that doesn't stop them from actually selling the vests they just can't advertise or endorse them as being a lvl 4 vest. it's all in the wiki which is where i'm sure you got the info about the cia and especially the generals (since they do not advertise that information)
jdcase1982 6 months ago
looks bulky and heavy. I dont want to murder. You will suffer in hell forever ! You serve the devil! AND GREED! THAT IS YOUR GOD.
FOXnewsAlien 11 months ago
@FOXnewsAlien LOL thats little to much man
wade239 10 months ago
That testing rig looks like freaking torture equipment....
NaxTactical 1 year ago
our troops need this armor!!!,,i dont mind paying higher taxes 4 saving lives......
stratcat70 1 year ago
Something to consider, you generally aren't going to be locked in place when your shot or taking shrapnel, and usually if it hits a vest, it's going to take you off your feet because the energy of impact being pushed around you not through you. So even if you soaked the thing in motor oil or laundry detergent, or heated up in an oven, i'd still like to think that if it was on a soft target that can be pushed around it'll still work pretty effectively.
johnnythemonster 1 year ago
Comment removed
johnnythemonster 1 year ago
its something that needs to be in our army
halolover3610 1 year ago
Mail call, future weapons, and countless other tests have been done on this armor and ALL of them except the military's test have shown it to be flawless! The military denied Dragon Skin before testing it. The simple truth is that the military does not want to pay for new state of the art armor.
turayde 1 year ago
@turayde You do realize the military banned Dragonskin before testing it was because they were claiming NIJ certification before the NIJ ever gave them any such certification? That's a very big no no.
It had nothing to do with the military "out to get DS" but rather the DS guys being idiots.
brainplay 1 year ago
@brainplay Good to know, thanks for correcting me. In your opinion is dragon skin good, or not?
turayde 1 year ago
@turayde It's not. The concept is sound but there are too many issues that follow it. You can't repair a vest in the field where as monolith plates can be swapped out if damaged. The discs fall off in binding/bending areas in the armpit and stomach areas after hard use. Weight is a huge thing right now and NIJ IV rated weigh a ton. Too many downsides especially when lots of guys want to move to smaller plate carriers than full vests.
brainplay 1 year ago
@brainplay Good to know, thanks again for the insight.
turayde 1 year ago
@brainplay well i would galdly overlook all those down sides you mention if the damn things gonna save my life!
Luishazong 1 year ago
@Luishazong No you wouldn't. The discs falling out near binding locations like the armpits and stomach leave huge uncovered holes. The armpit area is around your chest and at an oblique is a path straight to your heart and/or lungs. The weight is a major issue if you're running up a hill maneuvering around some Muj, ambushing your guys.
Those are situations that put your life at greater risk than normal.
brainplay 1 year ago
hmmm strange that 3 different independent tests showed this armor to work but 1 army test shows it to fail ? I smell skunk shit here , somthing isnt adding up
whiddon1 1 year ago
this could be any body armour! there is no proof that this is dragon skin
holdonflixxen 1 year ago
anyone else notice that in between them hanging the vest up, and shooting the vest, one of the shoulder straps is moved (not even on the plate) ?
ill trust the many many independent tests of this armor before i trust the military's test.
NoahHoe 1 year ago
yeah. how come the video is in bits and not streamed. i guess the dragon skin maker dude wants too much money for the shit. it looks legit. so why arent we using it?
slimddozen 1 year ago
@slimddozen Lol you answered your own question, its "too much money"!
GoodEvenings 1 year ago
@GoodEvenings me too, I'm in the military and i'm saying that
dizzleblackizzle 1 year ago
@slimddozen money aint the issue, reports were going around of family members getting back dragon skin vests that they bought for loved ones in the war, the army had banned it all together.
darkchild256 1 year ago
Even if it fails under extreme temperatures and chemicals I would still use it. Maybe bring it out in at night only or during winter. Use interceptor during hot day patrols. Perhaps it could be allocated to special forces only to manage the cost. The increased mulitple shot capability is worth it.
hurricane6613 1 year ago
@hurricane6613
It's been what at least 3 years now since DS came out. I'm sure that problem (if it really was legit) was fixed long ago. I wonder why Murray the CEO of Pinnacle hasn't talked. I wonder if he was threatened by the military to supress the technology while the other manufacturer has the contract. Eventually this superior armor will get into the market here or abroad and be produced by foreign corporations, not even the US military can stop that! I bet someone is doing it now.
tecnolover2642 1 year ago
@tecnolover2642 The company filed for bankruptcy. His shady practices, extreme cost to purchase/repair, and also the weight of the armor killed off many of his police buyers as well. At some point, no one wanted to buy the stuff. So it's pretty much gone.
To be honest, other testers have given DS a thumbs down for anything other than an air conditioned firing range.
brainplay 1 year ago
@tecnolover2642 You do realize that the DS body armor fails in "extreme weather conditions." That is in hot heat (ie. Iraq, Afghanistan) or bellow freezing temperatures or after submersion in liquid the adhesive used fails and shot penetrations were occurring first try. He's avoid bad PR for his company claiming NIJ III protection when they were never NIJ certified. Your conspiracy theories hold no water, go get some meds for your paranoia.
chittyx2bangx2 1 year ago
@chittyx2bangx2 hey folks...or you could remember its YOUTUBE...and people with lives dont give a fuck. Good luck in life faggot.
SkInHoUnD 1 year ago
@SkInHoUnD you're cool. go be a keyboard warrior somewhere else douchebag. People who serve in the military and who many have loved ones serving want to know. Now sit down. Shut the fuck up and let the adults talk. Or go indulge in some cock. You're a faggot wrapped in a rainbow. Have a nice day.
chittyx2bangx2 1 year ago 34
@chittyx2bangx2 Haha I love it when little kids get owned on the internet, then rebuttal with uncontrollable anger. You need a life son. No one gives a fuck about "body armour" and its obviously your bed time.
oralgoat69 1 year ago
@oralgoat69 No one gives a fuck about body armour??? Are you fucking stupid?? Or did I not understand???
StefanSu91 1 year ago
@oralgoat69 ye not guna lie, anything that stops me from dying is usually top of "care" list
septikmusic 1 year ago
@chittyx2bangx2 LOL!!!
Sad really.
SkInHoUnD 1 year ago
@chittyx2bangx2 That was some impressive shit-talking my friend!! ;)
SilentChaos12Gaming 1 year ago
@chittyx2bangx2 hell fuckin ya
jones13186 9 months ago
@chittyx2bangx2
A faggot wrapped in a rainbow?
You don't mind if I steal that would you? That has to be one of the funniest things I've heard in awhile.
ThatUJohnWayne 4 months ago
@ThatUJohnWayne Feel free brother. Only stipulation, always respect those who serve regardless of country. :)
chittyx2bangx2 4 months ago
Look carfully and you can see that, the armor was changed. look at the difference between 0:20 and 0:28.
calistarious 1 year ago
@calistarious That would be kind of hard to do. Do you see the guy with the glasses at 0:16 and 2:03? That's Murray Neal, the owner and CEO of Pinnacle who makes Dragonskin.
brainplay 1 year ago
I admit that I was intrigued by dragonskin, but I've come to the realization that the whole conspiracy theory is just not so. 'Army banned DS before testing to protect other suppliers' is just like the moon landing hoax.
When it works I won't deny it's better than Interceptor, but it's complex and much more can go wrong than just four ballistic plates. Pinnacle unfortunately didn't address these problems and DS was banned because it was prone to failure under extreme temperatures and chemicals.
BattleshipAgincourt 1 year ago
u know what... i think the army banned it because it would be wayyyy too expensive to be shot at.... i mean.. titanium plates overlapping each other.. than again, the money is worth spending to save lives
FroznDemon2 1 year ago
@FroznDemon2 yeah, i heard on the radio that the families of soldiers who have fallen get paid about half a million in benefits. it would be much cheaper to replace the dragonskin
ducks962 1 year ago
@FroznDemon2 it is not titanium, it is a non-oxide ceramic plate
6broseph 1 year ago
@6broseph It also has titanium in.
StefanSu91 1 year ago
if you all complain well go to iraq yourself and test it i was there and i trust the armor we use and this stuff is just as good if not better it all saves live belive me i know the vests we use today will stop 5 7.62 X 51 rounds i know i shot my plats after they were hit with shrapnal just to see and the vest itself can withstand multipul shots from a 9MM
pvtbrowning 1 year ago
The discs are the problem
Dragonskin plates can't be replaced, They're woven into the vest.
.
Plates are designed to be replaced. With interceptor, you can take gunfire and replace the plates cheaply/easily/on the fly.
.
If dragonskin is hit, the vest has to be replaced. The damaged discs are compromised. You don't want a questionable vest.
.
It's 10,000 for a dragonskin vest, and I don't think anyone plans on getting shot 30 times.
Interceptor saves lives, and isn't 10,000 to replace every time
MaxAC40 1 year ago
@MaxAC40 then again the dragon skin armour was designed to take more punishment than the IBA plates in use now, so they won't have to be replaced as frequently. it is sort of a balancing act
6broseph 1 year ago
The Army Colonel that tested Dragon Skin...barred tjhe Armies DS expert from their testing...had him fired...and then went to work for a major provider of Interceptor.
It has been reported that DS type III was tested against type V threats, the results of which were used by that Colonel to ban DS.
The Interceptor provider that the Colonel went to work for, had to recall 5000 Interceptor vests that were defective.
The inventor of Interceptor states that DS is superior to Interceptor.
meltdown1232000 1 year ago
@meltdown1232000 all true, but DS isn't perfect either. In the Air Forces tests Pinnacle sent them vests with faulty ceramic plates, when asked for a recall Pinnacle stated that soldiers should continue to wear the faulty armor cause "some armor is better than no armor", and even after repeated requests Pinnacle never provided corrected vests for testing. Doesn't prove anything about the army's tests but just goes to show that Pinnacle can be equally as shady.
kerenskymkii 1 year ago
@kerenskymkii check the Pinnacle employee list...chock full of ex Army brass.
I think the ultimate endorsement for DS is...when asked which armor HE'D wear in combat, the inventer of Interceptor replied, "Dragon Skin".
meltdown1232000 1 year ago 2
@kerenskymkii saw one test....DS was hit over 100 times with everything from 9MM to AK rounds...then the same vest was placed over a live grenade, which was set off. It did NOT fail. If a soldier had jumped on that grenade to save his mates...he would have also lived.
And that was just their threat III vest.
meltdown1232000 1 year ago
Those videos are fine, but a level IIIA vest without a plate can stop multitudes of 9mm and AK rounds are not the APM2 bullets that are required to pass level IV. The grenade test was a publicity stunt in other words DS didnt let anything through but show me the video where a normal ESAPI plate system does there is none probably because they know that it would yield near the same effect and wouldn't make DS look as cool. Im not saying its bad but Pinnacle is still a money driven company.
kerenskymkii 1 year ago
@meltdown1232000 lol sure no penetrations would have been made but the shock wave would have been severe.
Rulictar 1 year ago
@Rulictar Not necessarily, if the vest absorbed the initial blast, and directed the shock outward, like a shaped charge, the person would have a pretty good chance. Grenades, by design, are not really "blast" killers, but, shrapnel killers.
meltdown1232000 1 year ago
@meltdown1232000 Hmm, I'll look into most of that later, but you got a point.
Rulictar 1 year ago
@meltdown1232000 The exact opposite is true. Hand grenades produce little shrapnel and most grenade and IED kills are caused by the overpressure that the explosion creates. The first Marine in Iraq to get a Medal of Honor died after he covered a grenade with his kevlar (helmet) and body. He managed to contain the explosion and prevent any others from dying by the overpressure from the blast still caused massive hemoraging in his brain and internal organs and he died a few days later.
TeamSmiths 1 year ago
@TeamSmiths
well... i think it was a canadian soldier in afghanistan, who jumped on a RGD grenade trap, and saved his mates lives. his harris radio absorbed most of the blast. he got no serious injuries.
kalx007 1 year ago
@TeamSmiths not trying to discredit the marine's actions, but when an explosion is contained the pressure is actually increased drastically, that is physic plain and simple. isn't the technique that is taught "hit the deck and cover your face and neck?" there is a reason that soldiers and marines wear helmets and body armour. the helmet should protect their brain from the shockwave of the explosion and shrapnel, body armour protects vital organs from the same.
6broseph 1 year ago
@meltdown1232000
Some are, they are called concussion grenades.
Many countries still use them, including China.
cr9527 1 year ago
@meltdown1232000 Shrapnel killers yes, but when laying directly ON the grenade the blast would have been directed outwards towards your arms, likely tearing your them off and severely wounding your neck. Good luck with that outcome...
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
you will be fine with dragon skin if your not being a tard and rolling around in oil or diesel and dont jump in an oven
nicholassklavenitis 1 year ago
@nicholassklavenitis You will be fine if you are not being mobile, which most troops ARE mobile since it is an inherent requirement of modern combat. Dragon Skin is way too heavy for the modern soldier, weight is a HUGE issue right now.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
Yeah, after 16 years in the Army I trust the leadership explicitly. Not. Procurement is more about politics than functionality or even cost.
knarfster 1 year ago
rofl, sure looks like a 50. cal round, no vest is gonna withstand that but insurgents dont have 50 cal weapons.
Hatinonthehaters 1 year ago
@Hatinonthehaters true, although they might have 12.7x108 weapons which have greater power than .50
skks666 1 year ago
@skks666 12.7 is a .50 caliber.... .50 caliber simply means .50 inches which equals 12.7mm (Same thing in two different units). The .50 caliber you are likely referring to (the one we use) is the .50BMG or 12.7x99mm. When someone says .50 caliber, it simply means the bullet is .50 inches in diameter at its base, it does not refer to a specific weapon or bullet. So when Jasper Rambo-wannabe says he got a .50 caliber Desert Eagle, it doesn't mean he's firing the same round as a Barrett through it.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@W1zardF1ngers428 actually while 12,7cm is half an inch in measurement, when talking about a 12,7 round people are usually referring to the russian 12,7x108 which is a different caliber than .50BMG or .50AE. These are all different types of bullets and when someone says .50 caliber without specifying the weapon, they usually are indifferent about the differences and shouldn't be talking about bullets in the first place.
skks666 1 year ago
@skks666 12.7mm, not cm. Typo? : ) As far as 12.7 reference, I hear many people refer to the .50BMG in its metric configuration, and if someone spoke of a 12.7 I would think of the .50BMG not the Russian round. This may be a difference in our geography, not sure. I was simply stating that .50 caliber is improperly thought of as a specific cartridge rather than a bullet diameter. However, the BMG, AE, and Russian 12.7 are all the same CALIBER (.50/12.7mm), they are different ROUNDS. Semantics...?
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@W1zardF1ngers428 Semantics perhaps, the original commentator claimed that the insurgents didn't have .50 cal in their arsenal and and I was merely correcting him by saying that they do have the 12,7x108. The .50BMG metric configuration is 12,7x99mm which is also different, but like you said, might be a matter of geography in leaving out the cartridge length. However I don't feel such inaccuracies are for the connoisseur, the same goes for just saying 7.62, which one does it mean?
skks666 1 year ago
@skks666 I see your point and it makes sense. I guess I am saying that when stating 7.62 it doesn't refer to any one round (unless given in context), but ONLY the bullet diameter. You could purchase 7.62 bullets and reload them into multiple different types of rounds. You are right though, when someone says 7.62 I think .308 nine times out of ten unless we are talking about AK's or something. In hindsight it definitely looks like I was looking for something wrong in your post and I apologize.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
but i saw on another video a side by side test including interceptor and ds, the interceptor was penetrated by the so called "armored piercing" round and the ds deflecte the bullet. If you also watch future weapons, they put grenade beneath DS, and the result is no penetration at all....
sinigatalupin 1 year ago
Even the inventor of the interceptor armor told the media that dragon skin is way more better. I think the reason why the army banned the dragon skin is they ordered already interceptor and deployed it already in Iraq...
sinigatalupin 1 year ago
Yet they replaced it with another vest. <_< Plus dragon skin had been around years before the 2003 invasion. It failed back then though also.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
What i don't understand is why there are two holes in the molding clay, but the armor was only shot once.
aben1217 1 year ago
@aben1217 It was shot twice.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1 Whether Pinnacle was right there during the test has now revalence during that test on the Dragon Armor. I say this because the Dragon Armor that was given to be tested, was delivered prior to the test, so the Personel running those tests had more than enough time to weaken the integrity of the armor, or simply sabatoge it by any means necessary.
shadowwbn 1 year ago
As for why he didnt get mad, perhaps he was shocked the results were like that, perhaps he didnt want to get emotional in fear of retaliation or detainment? Either way, one fact remains true, they requested another test of the dragon armor, BUT the owners wanted to maintain possession of it all the way to the actual test, meaning NO ONE could tamper with it. They were declined a retest on numerous occasions due to this condition they wanted.
shadowwbn 1 year ago
@shadowwbn He didn't look shocked to me. Seemed kinda calm like he was expecting it. You know this wasn't the first vest that failed right? As I said before you should read the Army's report of testing. Even if you think they lied thier tests are actual tests & not simply shooting it.
Apart from the fact that then no one could inspect it until tested the Army had no reason to test it again. They already had to buy 30 vests so why would they want to buy 30 more?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@shadowwbn That would be about $60,000 spent simply on testing them. As for you saying they were tampered with look at the x-rays in the Army tests and tell me where you see evidence of that. Or are you just going by Pinnacle?
Since you answered my question I have another if you don't mind. Why are you willing to accept that the Army lied but not that the guys standing to make several billion dollars could be lying? I think either could lie but in this case I belive the Army.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1 it less then 60000dollar and they are firing level 4 bullets when this is just a level 3 armor
xxwaterxxx 1 year ago
@xxwaterxxx Uh $1,000 times 30 vests is $30,000 and to do another test would be the same price and numbers so yeah $60,000 spent on testing. No it is level IV. They were testing SOV-3000 which is level IV. Why would they test level III armor to replace the level IV OTV? I mean going by that they'd be getting less protection for a higher price.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
This is why I know this happens, about a decade ago a General/Cornel (i forget which) at Ft Campbell mandated that all soldiers were required to purchase 1 of 2 types of running shoes from Nike. I worked the 'Gut Truck' at FT campbell for over a year & I asked them whats up with everyone using the same shoes, because if they work the best, then I want to buy them, & each time I would get a very unhappy facial expression & told "EVERYONE has to use these in PT because of our commander.
shadowwbn 1 year ago
@shadowwbn It does make sense for commanders picking the shoes. Maybe they had issues with people getting really really bad ones? Anyway that really has nothing to do with this. It is a completely different situation.
Anyway even if you don't trust the Army you really should look at the test results. Can't be objective if you only get stuff from one side of the arguement after all.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@shadowwbn Doesn't have to change your mind but you gotta admit that thier tests are a lot better than simply sticking it on something and shooting it.
What reason does the Army have to lie about this?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@shadowwbn You could say cost but don't forget that when a soldier gets killed they have to pay the life insurance which can be $100,000, plus they'd need to train and equip an entirely new person to replace them which could be between $10,000 and $20,000. So if DS was better and kept them alive it would be cheaper than if they got killed.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1 Yes but they don't specifically have to pay the Life insurance, a goverment branch will. Who knows where that money comes from.
hobofuture 1 year ago
@hobofuture Doesn't really matter if the Army pays or not. Do you think that other parts of the goverment would let them do that if they were the ones that had to pay without trying to bring it up with the DOD or higher? The Army does have to pay for all the costs of a replacement though which are still higher than DS so my point still stands even if you bring life insurance out of the picture.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@hobofuture Wow that was probably the most irritating comment I have EVER read on YouTube. It comes from taxpayers, us, me, you, the people that work their ASS off. Next time the government spends billions of dollars on some liberal bailout for companies that should have been forced to dissolve, and builds bridges for turtles, and wastes money on more useless crap, you can rest assured they took it out of our paycheck. Come on, you sound like a liberal when you make such illogical statements.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1 cost a lot more than 20,000 to train a soldier but yes I completely agree
Ibanez2005gio 1 year ago
@Ibanez2005gio Couldn't find actual numbers so 10,000-20,000 was just a guess. Do you happen to know how much it does cost?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1 my recruiter told me it costs (very roughly) 150,000 by the time they are overseas. That's just for basic infantry though, a higher tech job would be way more
Ibanez2005gio 1 year ago
@Ibanez2005gio Ok thanks.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1 No problem man.
Ibanez2005gio 1 year ago
@shadowwbn
What's a Cornel?
Rofocowboy84 1 year ago
@shadowwbn Had to be delivered before testing. How else would it get inspected and they would need time to expose it to the various enviroments. The reason it would need to be inspected is to see if it got damaged during shipping. Probably other reasons also.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
wow dragon skin is way stronger then that prob fake
blackwallstreet49 1 year ago
@blackwallstreet49 So since no one else will answer this I'll ask you.
If it is fake why is the owner of Pinnacle in the video and why isn't he angry?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
Comment removed
shadowwbn 1 year ago
wtf?!
benke96kling 1 year ago
The money is allready divided, too big contract to be broken!
This is how the world works, of the great USA atleast!
Lets go share our democracy or Demolition Crazy to those who threat our big corporations. The Military hardware business is too big and powerfull to let Usa be without a war more then decade. Now we need to have a lottery, whats next?! Iran or one Korea's, the one they think is the bad one by flipping the coin before they charge!
Tuuppaan 1 year ago
@Tuuppaan Take your liberal, rainbow land fairytale shit elsewhere. You bash the one country that lets you spout your bullshit that is hardly worthy of free speech. Try whining about your home country while living in Venezuela, or under the Taliban, and you'll be wishing you lived under our 'Demolition Crazy' while you rot in prison forever or have your tongue ripped out while your wife/mother/daughter/sister is raped by some asshole for not wearing her headdress. I feel bad for people like you.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@W1zardF1ngers428 "[...] Take your liberal [...]" I was reading your comments with a lot of respect. Now I'm trying hard not to ignore them. Good job, it usually takes a lot for that to happen for me.
theclinger 10 months ago
if got the 50.cal id blow that shit out the window
KillerMooney 1 year ago
That video shows the biggest bunch of bullshit I have seen in a long ass time.
*They do not show the material under the armor to show it doesnt already have holes in it.
*They do not show the armor at all, its freaking taped up all to hell, and when they do remove it, that idiot is standing in the line of sight so you cant even see shit.
*Not to mention the video feed being interupted like 4 times. Plus the angle of recording changes, which you woould assume means...........
shadowwbn 1 year ago
you would assume means either they have a camera man that wanted a better angle, BUT if that is the case then why didnt the camera man change its position whenever those idiots blocked his view.
So, its easy to deduce each time the video had a black out, they did something they did NOT want us to see.
Not to mention the fact that they did NOT show was weapon or bullet caliber they used, so they used a freaking 50 Cal. for all we know.
I wish I didnt know why they went to these.....
shadowwbn 1 year ago
lengths, but I do unfortunetly, only because it is the ONLY reason that makes sense plus its happened so many other times in the past that it's actually not surprising.
Check out the financial record of the Interceptor, and compare it to both current generals in the US army, and the ones that recently retired around the time the selection was made. You will the greedy piece of trash that was bought off. All at the expense of our soldiers that are sacrificing EVERYTHING to defend our nation.
shadowwbn 1 year ago
seriously, if enough indisputable evidence is presented, and our govt does NOT punish them for sending our soldiers out to war, without the BEST protection, I will go to their house and beat their dumbass into a coma, then when they woke up, BAM, back in a coma, this will repeat over and over again until they fuking die, this is NOT acceptable. Putting our economy at risk
for money is one thing, but for those that sacrifice EVERYTHING including their life, is BULLSHIT & will NOT be tolerated
shadowwbn 1 year ago
@shadowwbn So if it is a BS test why is the owner of Pinnacle, Murray Neal, in it? Can anyone explain to me why he is there and not complaining at all if it is a BS test?
What evidence are you talking about? The tv shows that have DS? That is some bad evidence. They show whatever the episode is about in a positive light or make it seem better than it is.
There is no camera man it is on a wall or ceiling.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@shadowwbn Why would they show the armor? The guys testing it know what it is so they would have no reason to show the camera what it is. If it had holes in it before being shot why didn't Murray Neal throw a tantrum?
Weapon? They don't use a weapon it is a test barrel. As for the round it is a armor piercing .30-06. You people would know this if you read the Army's test results. Do you know anything about real armor tests?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@shadowwbn Oh and what I mean by you people is people that think they used a .50 cal not everyone else that posted here. Just wanted to clarify.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@shadowwbn ya i didnt see any holes plus whos to say the material underneath isnt playdoh that would get fucked up if the vest was shot with a paintball gun
gravedanger666 1 year ago
@gravedanger666 If that is how you feel than do you mind explaining why Murray Neal is in the video and why he isn't angry? You really can't see the holes? They shine a light into them. Shadowwbn didn't say there are no holes he thinks they were there before being shot though. Which if so once again why didn't Murray Neal get angry?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@shadowwbn look at the wall or things that cant move when judging when the camera moves
mrx78155 1 year ago
Also you get what you pay for.
4th level body armor 800-600 dollars.
3rd level body armor 300-400 dollars.
5th level body armor 5g's.
and if your stubid enough to belive high level body armor in are current times wount last... then your just idiot.
MoneyVSMetal 1 year ago
Level V armor is too heavy IMO level IV protection is between 30-50lbs so level V would be higher. Uh Level III-IV DS costs over $2,000 possibly even $5,000. There is no price figure for the level V because no one can buy it.
It is really hard to understand what you typed but it seems like you think I don't think strong armor will be around long right? If so then you are wrong. I do think DS has lots of fanboys. Proven by the fact that pointless tests are brought up and failures are ignored.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1
What does price matters.When the military has a blank check.
How can you not understand what i typed.
Becaues you sure hell i didnt undertand Your secound paragraph.
MoneyVSMetal 1 year ago
@RGM79GM1
What dose price matters.
Dont you understand we have a blank check.
Fanboys?Lol this is not a sport. The fcat is all others armors are CRAP and dragon skin is the best.
You didnt understand what i typed.
Sure in hell i didnt understand your second paragraph.
MoneyVSMetal 1 year ago
No they don't. They have a limited amount of money total and even less for armor. Maybe you can't understand this but any money used to purchase military gear is paid for by US tax payers and last I checked they do not have a infinite amount of money.
I can't understand it because your bad at spelling. You can't understand my 2nd paragraph yet you respond to it? Somehow that doesn't make sense or are you just saying you don't understand cause I did?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
Yes fanboys. Anything can have a fanboy. These are people that think it is the best simply cause they are told so. They also ignore all evidence that it isn't. Ringing any bells?
No they aren't. DS isn't as good as you seem to think. The US Army and special forces members agree that it isn't that good.
Oh and if price didn't matter the F-22 would still be in production instead of the F-35. Problem was it cost too much so it was cut and replaced with something cheaper. Thanks for playing.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
If nothing else answer this. Do you trust the US Army and special forces members or the guys trying to sell DS more?
Also please remember that DS sales would be atleast $5 billion. So do you honestly think Pinnicle would not lie to get $5 billion?
Did you even read the links I posted?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
Are you stubid.
The army special forces are not involed with Body armor what so ever.
5 billion for all are troops to come home salfey hmmm did you know we just took out a 2trillon loan oh and the war cost several billon a year already.
Link post?
Lol thier is none.
So first read up on your information sedcond Open you mind. Third learn what are special forces do. they do Combat operations not dictating armor.
MoneyVSMetal 1 year ago
I know they don't decide the armor. However SF can legally use DS. So their opinions matter. If they hate it why would it be better for regulars?
Considering the Army tests, this video, and the opinions of SF members it would not bring them back safely. The fact that heat melts the adhesive holding the discs together it would be bad.
That is different money. The money for buying new gear is limited and split between all branches.
Can't post them for some reason.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
Google "professional soldiers dragon skin". Read the topic called "Dragon Skin Testing and the Truth". Made by a user called The Reaper.
One of the members there was even incharge of testing DS for the Army. He was a SF member before that though.
I've been reading up on this for years. My mind is open. However as I have said I trust the Army and SF more than Pinnicle. I know what they do. However they can use DS and get experiance with it and if they hate it why would regulars like it?
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
Oh and in that topic the other link is the first link in the first post. It shows the results of the Army test and why DS failed. This video is one of those tests.
Not sure why I can't just post the links though. When I try to it won't accept my post.Which is why you'll have to google it yourself.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@MoneyVSMetal Special Operations Forces are well versed in combat operations, and since body armor is a vital part of modern combat operations, I would say their opinion is quite weighted. Most modern tactical equipment manufacturers (Blackhawk?) are made by ex-Special Forces or experienced operators. Dragon Skin is WAY too heavy for modern combat and equipment needs. Special Forces are the ones to ask what kind of weight is viable, wouldn't you think? Stopping capability is not the only factor.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@MoneyVSMetal Actually the military doesn't have a blank check. The Air Force had to downsize by about 1000 officer and enlisted so they could afford to make upgrades to aircraft because they couldn't afford it and congress wouldn't increase their budget.
kerenskymkii 1 year ago
Comment removed
kerenskymkii 1 year ago
The army lies.. They are no better then the goverment.
Steel core rounds make 4th level body armor look like crap. Dragon skin makes steel core rounds look like crap.
I love how people say it's not durable nor can it withstand heat.
But yet i survied a LIVE FRAG.
A frag that generates Sevral Hundred Degrees and makes ends meat out of men.And yet when tested on dragon skin.. Frag did not penitrate dragon skin. and dragon skin was still holding.
Take note over 100 rounds were put into it.
MoneyVSMetal 1 year ago
Wow just wow. As I said before the frag is pointless foir a DS test as is the 100 9mm rounds. Both the 9mms and shrapnel are stopped by the KEVLAR not the DS. The frag may generate heat but it doesn't last long. Army heat test lasted for hours.
Not sure why so many people can't understand that the DS isn't what stops shrapnel and pistol rounds.
You are saying that it is great cause it can stop them yet simple kevlar is all that is needed to do so and is much cheaper than a DS vest.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
Oh and as for the Army lying. That may be true but they don't lie about everything. Last I checked companies trying to sell a product lie also and I trust the Army a lot more than some company trying to sell something.
When looking at a $2,000,000,000 sale nearly anyone would lie. BTW I get $2,000,000,000 from going with a $1,000 DS price times 2,000,000 US military(closer to 3,000,000 though) personel. It is atleast 2(I think 5) times more than that really as that is the price of the OTV.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@MoneyVSMetal You know absolutely nothing about armor and ballistics beyond what Mac says on Future Weapons. My engine block can do the same thing, why don't we sew that into a vest and give it to our soldiers? You are missing the point my friend. We are not disputing its ability in such situations that you described, but rather that its mere ability is a moot point. Its ability to do these things does not make it BETTER, unless it does these things under certain conditions or constraints.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
I've seen aftermath photos and know personnel who have survived ballistic threats from small arms and frag wearing RBR M-TAC 300 and BAE Systems IOTV NIJ IIIA kevlar aramid fiber kevlar body armor with NIJ IVA monolithic ablative ceramic plates.
The lack of battle proven testing and controversy does not make me feel this is a gamble I want to take. If Dragon Skin cannot withstand prolonged miserable conditions and its durability is short-lived, it is not worth its outrageous $5000+ price tag
Yphsheral 1 year ago
@Yphsheral I heard its also vulnerable to knife attacks
gunmadkiller 1 year ago
Basically any ballistic vest can be penetrated by a knife. DS, the OTV, the MTV, & the IOTV are all meant to stop bullets but were not made to stop blades. They have to be made differently to stop blades.
Some vests can stop both but they are probably heavy and are deffinetly more expensive.
They probably aren't made to stop knives since generally the wearers would be armed with rifles and could kill most knife wielders before they got close enough.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
@gunmadkiller This is also very true, all forms of "soft armor" such as ballistic kevlar (not to be confused with the "hard" ballistic kevlar resin matrixes used to make combat helmets) are susceptible to knives/stabbing weapons; only the plates offer protection at this point.
Even Dragon Skin will not be able to solve this problem, and as you've mentioned, vests are designed in mind with the thought that the shooter can defeat a knife-wielding opponent with his firearm.
Yphsheral 1 year ago
For anyone saying the video is fake the guy with the mustache is the guy in charge of pinnical. <_<
As for the frag the Dragon skin had nothing to do with no penetrations. Soft body armor as in kevlar stops the fragments not the hard armor same with the 9mm rounds.
Oh and about it being banned before testing IIRC the Air Force tested it before the Army and it fell apart and was then banned. Then a new version was made and the Army tested it. Don't quote me on it though.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
NOT TRUE ABERDEEN ARMY RESEACRCH SAID it can handle tough conditions and air force thing were poorly made
RIEKSONE 1 year ago
...The Army are the ones saying it sucks. <_< They are also the ones that say it can't handle tough conditions. If you can find it I reccomend reading the Army report for testing.
What isn't true BTW?
You mean the air force test or the vest they tested? If you mean the test I don't think so. IIRC they didn't even shoot it. It just fell apart. Which is why they banned it. Then Pinnacle went back to the drawing board and made the current DS several years later.
RGM79GM1 1 year ago
surely there arent several companies deeply invested in the military and all have patents on the interceptor model armor. And surely they wouldn't rig a test to fail for the new guy on the block, who coincidentally wont share the patent with the other companies.
surely the military wouldn't protect its previous investors becuase wars aren't ever fought for profit... right?
just like the M16 tests back in Korea wern't rigged to fail... o wait.
NoahHoe 2 years ago 5
@NoahHoe fuck. yes. dragon skin is the SHIT.
Waxxumus 1 year ago
@NoahHoe You are referring to the military-industrial complex, and its presence is always influencing decisions, but rarely dominating them. Wars are rarely fought FOR profit, but they certainly create profit for many companies, as does nearly any action in a market economy. You must remember that many companies make much lower profit margins off the government military contracts, and usually vie for the contracts because it says more about the quality of their product than for profit margins.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@wigtrimer Dragonskin comes in several different ratings. The higher ratings can indeed stop 308 and 8mm. Google search around for the reports & vids.
LemmeLieHere 2 years ago
@LemmeLieHere Its mere ability to stop these rounds is no feat, my engine block does so as well, should I sew it into a vest and make someone wear it? If you were in combat, the vest would be way too heavy for you carry much of your equipment that you needed. Weight is the biggest problem with Dragon Skin.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@LemmeLieHere Its mere ability to stop these rounds is no feat. My engine block can do this too, should I sew it into a vest and make someone wear it? Dragon Skin is way too heavy to be used in combat situations, since you would not be able to carry much of your equipment that you need. Its not all about stopping capability, weight is VERY important to any soldier, the armor isn't stopping anything that other armor cannot stop. The plates are irreplaceable as well, which is impractical.
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@W1zardF1ngers428 Do you really have nothing better to do than reply to year-old comments like mine? 8 of the posts on this page are from you.
As for weight, basic SOV-2000 DragonSkin vest weighs 5.5 lbs., basic Interceptor vest weighs 8.4 lbs. This is without all of the inserts, groin protection, etc. You are right about the plates not being replaceable, but most of your arguments here are nitpicking. Stop trolling.
If your engine block is so great, sew it into a vest and go swimming.
LemmeLieHere 1 year ago
@LemmeLieHere The SOV-3000, not 2000 is comparable to an IBA with ESAPI plates inserted. Compare apples to apples my friend. A full Interceptor vest XL weighs around 31 lbs with EVERYTHING, including the additional armor protection. Now you tell me how much an SOV-3000 weighs with everything else? I think Dragon Skin is revolutionary, but it needs more development and work. Your last statement was moronic. Make logical arguments like the middle part. I'm nitpicking? Really? It's BODY ARMOR...
W1zardF1ngers428 1 year ago
@W1zardF1ngers428 I don't think the plates need to be replaced most of the time, even after the vest is shot, considering the more than 100 rounds of ammunition they put through these vests while testing them. And they're NOT too heavy. I've got a good friend who is a police officer and on the SWAT team, everyone else on that team, my brother included, wears dragon skin armor. Fully geared, they weigh close to a typical soldier, and they can perform just fine, so I'm not buying your argument.
nick42701 10 months ago 3
@nick42701 - just so you know rick I am a former US Marine and I can tell you a full load-out for us is WAY more than your typical police officer even swat lol. Interceptor vest + sapi plates = 25lbs then + 40lb rucksack + 10-20lbs of gear/ammo (depending on your position in the squad you could have 249 barrels etc) yeah we're way overloaded sometimes lol. I work corrections now and I can tell you from wearing my dragonskin vest (I purchased one) they're WAY lighter feeling
jdcase1982 6 months ago
@jdcase1982 yet they are 20 pounds heavier than the Sapi+vests
techsniper777 6 months ago
@nick42701 - Actually sir it is HIGHLY recommended whenever your bulletproof vest takes any impact to replace the protective elements that holds especially true to the vests issued to our military by Point Blank (US ARMY) the IOTV (Improved Outer Tactical Vest or "Interceptor") and protective products something or other (can't remember) MTV (Modular Tactical Vest) (US Marines)which rely on large single element ceramic plates to stop rounds.
jdcase1982 6 months ago
Army test lab said the adhesive that holds the Dragonskin disks in the matrix degrades at high temperature. Pinnacle Arms (maker of Dragonskin) said they fixed the problem and want a retest... which is taking a reeaalllyy long time. Some even claim the original test was fixed, and tested at higher temp. than normal. Who knows who's telling the truth anymore.
However, I've seen other tests, & they look impressive.
If I were in combat, & I could afford it, I'd buy Dragonskin.
LemmeLieHere 2 years ago 2
this is a false test the bullet didnt even hit on the side they are showing it hit on the left hand side (as you would be wearing it) at the black holder this test was a scam and need to be retested by the Real Army the men fighting useing the Interceptor
DSMeclipsegst 2 years ago 2
fake, the video is a fake, look where the bullet penatrated the armor, and look where they are taking pictures, first off the armor was strapped on prior to us seeing the back, so how do we know the hole wasn't there before, and the bullet hit the left strap below the horizontal strap, and the bullet hole was much higher and more towards the right, and how do we know it's actually dragon skin? all it shows it armor being shot, very questionable especially for a military test.
xboxliveman177 2 years ago
DRAGON SKIN WILL NOT STOP A 308 OR A 8MM
wigtrimer 2 years ago