Well that would have defeated the purpose of being "no one special" wouldn't it have? :) Plus, I was sick as a dog and we only had an hour to do the whole thing so it was very rushed.
If you were actually interested in having an intelligent discussion about this, you surely would not have posted your first comment like you did which was essentially "Nyah, na-na-na na Nyah" but with an air of false authority.
If you seriously want to discuss the pros and cons of MMP over FPTP, email me from my site.
Proponents for MMP make a great deal of amazing claims, but I've seen almost no argument to back them up. Where is the tested implementation plan for these changes? There isn't one that's why nobody voted for it. There is nothing that prevents fraud, especially without a proper implementation plan. Besides you just alienated a constituent with you're smug arrogance that was one of only 53 % that voted in the province of Ontario.
What kind of fraud could there possibly be under MMP that is not also possible under FPTP? I've refuted (as best as possible in this medium) all your objections so now you start making things up?
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for in terms of a "tested implementation plan." What do you want? 100's of countries using some form of PR so we can see what happens?
If you're so concerned about the low voter turnout, you should have voted MMP. When every vote counts, more people come out to vote! This has been proven time and time again.
Besides, you were alienated before you even posted here with your omniscient insight into the minds of every voter in Ontario.
Expose my lack of knowledge on this issue? I did my research prior to voting and I found out MPP will result in a weaker, indecisive provincial government with a less democratic system, with one-third of the legislature chosen by party leaders and not directly by voters.
Indecisive? How so? Minority governments are only weak now because parties are simply biding time until they can trigger a new election. Rae's NDP was certainly decisive with their 37%. Too bad for the 63% that didn't vote NDP.
Less democratic? So 37% IS a majority? 2.2 Million Canadians represented by 2 MPs is democratic?
Chosen by party leaders? You realize that candidates are chosen by the parties NOW right? I can't just go and be the PC candidate in my riding. If you don't like the way YOUR party chooses list members, VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT PARTY!
$3.3 Million vs unfair election results with a majority government elected by a minority of voters. A government, I might add, that we're stuck with for 5 years. And you want to talk about accountability? Please. Show me where to deposit my quarter.
NoOneSpecial, I wondered about the cost of implementing the new system. Prior to voting, I phoned Elections Canada and it was revealed that they knew "NOTHING" about that aspect ? They spent millions of our tax dollars on a Citizens Assembly on Electoral Reform and they couldn't give me a straight answer ?
Well duh. Elections Canada has nothing to do with this. Even Elections Ontario wouldn't be able to answer your question because they don't handle the budget for legislature, only for running the election. IMO, your estimate is a little low.
I meant Elections Ontario you condescending smart ass, and they should no regardless what you believe. This proposed two-tier government system sounds like the government's solution to reduced voter turnout in the current electoral system. Reducing the public's power won't help suppress scandals such as the recent Cricket club incident. $ 100,000 requested and 1,000,000 paid, for no apparent reason or benefit to the people of Ontario.
Elections Ontario has NOTHING to do with the way government operates. I bet if you asked them how much our current government system costs they couldn't even tell you.
You iniated the name calling. Anyway the MMP would of lead to more minority government representation and smaller parties. Occasionally minority governments are sometimes good, but they can't deal with long term issues. They can't take tough measures because the leading party needs to get re-elected sooner. It was good discussing this important issue but I got to leave now to see the Leafs play this evening at the ACC. Take Care NoOneSpecial.
The only reason minority governments are so ineffective is that there is no incentive for the parties to work together. As you said, the parties just want to increase their popularity so they can trigger an election.
They are just biding time until they have a better chance at getting a false majority.
Under MMP this would totally change. Parties would have to work together and their incentive to do so is that come election time (in 4 years, not 16 months -- there's some cost savings for you) they will be judged by the electorate based on their ability to be an effective member of the coalition.
The hope of a majority is very slim, so they have to work within a minority.
No, it's a business associate of mine inviting me to the game. Besides how many chances do you have to see SidTheKid play hockey ? NoOneSpecial, you should be a little more gracious with me. I don't see anyone else on this forum interacting with you about this informative discussion.
And if you're coming on here claiming an informed decision was made, you can surely understand why I would want to expose your own lack of knowledge on the issue.
From your own tone, I don't think I'm going to convince you. But your misinformation will be corrected for everyone else.
"This proposed two-tier government system sounds like the government's solution to reduced voter turnout in the current electoral system."
Wow where to start. MMP is not a two-tier system by any stretch of the imagination. The government doesn't want MMP because it reduces their power since you won't see many (if any) more false majorities. MMP, along with other types of PR, has been shown to increase voter turnout.
And yes, a more accountable government would help eliminate these types of scandals that we all despise. Do you really think McGuinty is accountable? He won't have any challenge to his power for over 4 years. He can do what he wants with the province and he only got about 41% of the popular vote.
Purportedly, the members were chosen randomly, but can anyone establish which information was used to determine such random participation ? How about the ability of the members to make educated choices when it comes to this history making decision ?
The public want to eliminate misuse, abuse and squandering of their money. Taking all of the potential costs above into account, it's likely that each of the 22 extra members would incur around $150,000 each which would mean an additional cost of about 3.3 million dollars a year.
Furthermore, all MPPs would have been more accountable under MMP, list members and district members. To say otherwise is quite simply fear mongering to scare otherwise uninformed voters away from real change, so the party you represent continually gets more power than it is entitled to.
First off the people of Ontario didn't ask for this referendum and the associated costs. The change was pushed by small splinter parties like the one you represent. The public spoke October 10th and want more accountability. They do not want paid MPPs that have no accountability not to ridings or constituents or any other defined entity or channel. The people of Ontario want more transparency of the use of their tax dollars, at all levels of government.
Sad to say, your fear mongering shows you are completely ignorant of the issues. The Citizens' Assembly, made up of random Ontarians, called for the referendum. McGuinty called for the referendum as part of an election promise.
Considering the misinformation in your comment, you'll forgive me for taking your word for it that the Ontario public made an "informed decision." Polls and my own experience show that people really didn't know what they were voting for. It's a real shame, too. We haven't had a referendum in Ontario since Prohibition, and the importance of it was lost on many people.
The Ontario public made an informed decision October 10th. Using our tax dollars to pay for 22 more politicians and their staff at Queens Park, without knowing what the additional 22 will be doing, suggests that we need decisions made for us. I'm glad it was squashed we're overgoverned, and overtaxed as it is !!
I dont know the facts about the issue but man you shoulda got an actor for this vid
colouredbills 3 years ago
lol
Well that would have defeated the purpose of being "no one special" wouldn't it have? :) Plus, I was sick as a dog and we only had an hour to do the whole thing so it was very rushed.
NoOneSpecialCa 3 years ago
canadacup,
If you were actually interested in having an intelligent discussion about this, you surely would not have posted your first comment like you did which was essentially "Nyah, na-na-na na Nyah" but with an air of false authority.
If you seriously want to discuss the pros and cons of MMP over FPTP, email me from my site.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
Proponents for MMP make a great deal of amazing claims, but I've seen almost no argument to back them up. Where is the tested implementation plan for these changes? There isn't one that's why nobody voted for it. There is nothing that prevents fraud, especially without a proper implementation plan. Besides you just alienated a constituent with you're smug arrogance that was one of only 53 % that voted in the province of Ontario.
canadacup 4 years ago 2
What kind of fraud could there possibly be under MMP that is not also possible under FPTP? I've refuted (as best as possible in this medium) all your objections so now you start making things up?
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for in terms of a "tested implementation plan." What do you want? 100's of countries using some form of PR so we can see what happens?
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
If you're so concerned about the low voter turnout, you should have voted MMP. When every vote counts, more people come out to vote! This has been proven time and time again.
Besides, you were alienated before you even posted here with your omniscient insight into the minds of every voter in Ontario.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
Expose my lack of knowledge on this issue? I did my research prior to voting and I found out MPP will result in a weaker, indecisive provincial government with a less democratic system, with one-third of the legislature chosen by party leaders and not directly by voters.
canadacup 4 years ago 3
Weaker? MPPs competing to serve you = stronger.
Indecisive? How so? Minority governments are only weak now because parties are simply biding time until they can trigger a new election. Rae's NDP was certainly decisive with their 37%. Too bad for the 63% that didn't vote NDP.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
Less democratic? So 37% IS a majority? 2.2 Million Canadians represented by 2 MPs is democratic?
Chosen by party leaders? You realize that candidates are chosen by the parties NOW right? I can't just go and be the PC candidate in my riding. If you don't like the way YOUR party chooses list members, VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT PARTY!
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
$3.3 Million vs unfair election results with a majority government elected by a minority of voters. A government, I might add, that we're stuck with for 5 years. And you want to talk about accountability? Please. Show me where to deposit my quarter.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
NoOneSpecial, I wondered about the cost of implementing the new system. Prior to voting, I phoned Elections Canada and it was revealed that they knew "NOTHING" about that aspect ? They spent millions of our tax dollars on a Citizens Assembly on Electoral Reform and they couldn't give me a straight answer ?
canadacup 4 years ago
Well duh. Elections Canada has nothing to do with this. Even Elections Ontario wouldn't be able to answer your question because they don't handle the budget for legislature, only for running the election. IMO, your estimate is a little low.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
I meant Elections Ontario you condescending smart ass, and they should no regardless what you believe. This proposed two-tier government system sounds like the government's solution to reduced voter turnout in the current electoral system. Reducing the public's power won't help suppress scandals such as the recent Cricket club incident. $ 100,000 requested and 1,000,000 paid, for no apparent reason or benefit to the people of Ontario.
canadacup 4 years ago
Resorting to name calling now?
Elections Ontario has NOTHING to do with the way government operates. I bet if you asked them how much our current government system costs they couldn't even tell you.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
You iniated the name calling. Anyway the MMP would of lead to more minority government representation and smaller parties. Occasionally minority governments are sometimes good, but they can't deal with long term issues. They can't take tough measures because the leading party needs to get re-elected sooner. It was good discussing this important issue but I got to leave now to see the Leafs play this evening at the ACC. Take Care NoOneSpecial.
canadacup 4 years ago
Figures you're a Leaf fan!!!
The only reason minority governments are so ineffective is that there is no incentive for the parties to work together. As you said, the parties just want to increase their popularity so they can trigger an election.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
They are just biding time until they have a better chance at getting a false majority.
Under MMP this would totally change. Parties would have to work together and their incentive to do so is that come election time (in 4 years, not 16 months -- there's some cost savings for you) they will be judged by the electorate based on their ability to be an effective member of the coalition.
The hope of a majority is very slim, so they have to work within a minority.
That is accountability.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
No, it's a business associate of mine inviting me to the game. Besides how many chances do you have to see SidTheKid play hockey ? NoOneSpecial, you should be a little more gracious with me. I don't see anyone else on this forum interacting with you about this informative discussion.
breakerexpress 4 years ago 3
Yeah that should be a good game. Sid is incredible along with the other young Pens. The Leafs have a decent team this year too.
Actually I've been rather overwhelmed at the reaction my site has gotten considering how long it's been up.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
And if you're coming on here claiming an informed decision was made, you can surely understand why I would want to expose your own lack of knowledge on the issue.
From your own tone, I don't think I'm going to convince you. But your misinformation will be corrected for everyone else.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
"This proposed two-tier government system sounds like the government's solution to reduced voter turnout in the current electoral system."
Wow where to start. MMP is not a two-tier system by any stretch of the imagination. The government doesn't want MMP because it reduces their power since you won't see many (if any) more false majorities. MMP, along with other types of PR, has been shown to increase voter turnout.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
And yes, a more accountable government would help eliminate these types of scandals that we all despise. Do you really think McGuinty is accountable? He won't have any challenge to his power for over 4 years. He can do what he wants with the province and he only got about 41% of the popular vote.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
Purportedly, the members were chosen randomly, but can anyone establish which information was used to determine such random participation ? How about the ability of the members to make educated choices when it comes to this history making decision ?
canadacup 4 years ago 2
1. Yes, that information is available.
2. Contrary to what you might think or desire, this is a democracy and that is not how things work here.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
The public want to eliminate misuse, abuse and squandering of their money. Taking all of the potential costs above into account, it's likely that each of the 22 extra members would incur around $150,000 each which would mean an additional cost of about 3.3 million dollars a year.
canadacup 4 years ago 2
Furthermore, all MPPs would have been more accountable under MMP, list members and district members. To say otherwise is quite simply fear mongering to scare otherwise uninformed voters away from real change, so the party you represent continually gets more power than it is entitled to.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
First off the people of Ontario didn't ask for this referendum and the associated costs. The change was pushed by small splinter parties like the one you represent. The public spoke October 10th and want more accountability. They do not want paid MPPs that have no accountability not to ridings or constituents or any other defined entity or channel. The people of Ontario want more transparency of the use of their tax dollars, at all levels of government.
canadacup 4 years ago 2
I don't represent any party, I made that clear.
Sad to say, your fear mongering shows you are completely ignorant of the issues. The Citizens' Assembly, made up of random Ontarians, called for the referendum. McGuinty called for the referendum as part of an election promise.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
Considering the misinformation in your comment, you'll forgive me for taking your word for it that the Ontario public made an "informed decision." Polls and my own experience show that people really didn't know what they were voting for. It's a real shame, too. We haven't had a referendum in Ontario since Prohibition, and the importance of it was lost on many people.
NoOneSpecialCa 4 years ago
The Ontario public made an informed decision October 10th. Using our tax dollars to pay for 22 more politicians and their staff at Queens Park, without knowing what the additional 22 will be doing, suggests that we need decisions made for us. I'm glad it was squashed we're overgoverned, and overtaxed as it is !!
canadacup 4 years ago 3