However, if a man WANTS temporary, meaningless sex with a strange woman, and as they are both HONEST about it, why shouldn't he be able to pay her without the risk of either of them getting arrested? It's both their own business if that's what they want to do! tOur laws are too much under the influence of religion wether we want to admit it or not.
To honest I don't think hookers loves THEMSELVES much less men. I mean if you sell your body for some cash you clearly don't love yourself! That's another reason why no man should believe a hooker when she says she loves him; how can you love someone if you can't love your own damned self?
@asodimu213 Because people who don't share your personal sexual mores must not love themselves, right? Your assertion is no more persuasive than a traditional Christian who insists that anyone who has sex before marriage doesn't love themselves, or a radical muslims assertion that any woman who doesn't wear a burka is disrespecting themselves.
@MissTemperence I think you miss the point of what I said. Think logically now. Would any woman with any speck of self respect and intelligence willingly expose themselves to be used for nothing more than cheap sex not to mention the possibility of getting an STD? I don't think so!
I dont think this woman is telling the full truth. I think she is speaking what she personally feels by men. Listening to your videos... I can concur and agree that feminism did damage in terms of gender relations with others, it left a lot of men (and women) angry and confused on how to get thier needs met with the opposite sex. I have been perusing through pages of some MRA's and feel sad to report that tehre are MRA's making the same mistakes as the rad-fems did. I worry about this.
@FinalJusticeMovement :) thanks. I agree with fixing the damage and confusion stemming from feminism especially the confusion between gender relations. I jsut wonder though where mra's blurr the line of what feminism truely is responsible for, and other things that contributed to problems that men face. then of course liek the radical feminists being misogynist, seeing mra's that are pinning their negativity and blame (even if their feelings are just) on women.
@FinalJusticeMovement I aslo watched the other videos, I really like it you put out quality videos! I apprecaite your channel and videos ebcuase I see you as trying to form a bridge between the gap, verses certain MRAs who are just making that gap wider. I don't agree that prostiute all dont care about men (lol) but I think its a graet ans positive step that you encourage men to learn how to engage and charm women for real relationships! it was always my theory that the issues most mra's have to
@rosskay it was always my theory that the issues most mra's have today stem from not getting basic needs men from women, society, and attachment needs met ( same for feminists, as you know I tried to help them, and you know how that one went down, lol)
You do realize that Shelley Lubben is a complete and total liar and addict in denial whose anti-sex-work crusade has been completely discredited not only by people still active in the porn industry but by women she's claimed to have "saved" as well, right? She is telling you exactly what you want to hear, skillfully whoring out her new "viewpoint" in exactly the same manner which she once used to sell her body in porn flicks. She's full of shit and apparently so are you.
@FinalJusticeMovement No, she's a liar to me because she claims to have been forced into porn when she clearly wasn't and because she pretends she's in recovery when she's actually still a drunken pill-popper. And no, what she said in your clip was NOT "100% true" - she claims to speak for all sex workers when she herself is the shittiest of the shitty examples of such. Most of the female porn performers I've met and heard from don't hate men at all. I stand by my original remarks.
@FinalJusticeMovement "what she said IN THE CLIP WE USED was 100% true." That sex workers hate men? Does this include the sex workers that are men? What about sex workers who've married someone they met on the job? Do they hate him? To insist that all sex workers all feel the same way about all clients, all the time, is ridiculous, and child-like in it's simplicity.
@FinalJusticeMovement Ok, so it's only the entirity of all FEMALE sex workers that we feel we can speak for. Gotcha, my apologies. As for the other point, somewhat true. It would depend on how you define promiscuity. Is it promiscuity for a sex worker who dances nude on stage? Or does phone sex? Some would say yes, others no. And of course, there are many married couples who are not sex workers who are swingers, or engage in threesomes, etc Do they not love eachother?
@FinalJusticeMovement My point didn't have much to do with it being female sex workers. My point is, that is still an incredibly huge group of people. It's ridiculous to say that such a large group of people all share the exact same, simplistic feelings about something. Do you really believe you can say that ALL female sex workers hate men? Do you really believe every woman in sex work feels the same way about it? Doesn't that seem suspiciously simplistic to you?
TEMP: "It would depend on how you define promiscuity." >> Promiscuity is DEFINED as one who engages in sexual intercourse with numerous partners (polygamous) or one who is not sexually monogamous. TEMP: "Is it promiscuity for a sex worker who dances nude on stage?" >> I see what you're getting at, and I acknowledge the mistake in my last reply to you. I was specifically speaking of prostitutes, porn performers, and a PORTION of exotic dancers who double as prostitutes. (TBC) --FJ
@FinalJusticeMovement "Promiscuity is DEFINED as..." You are right. But is it really promiscuity that is the issue, or fidelity? Afterall, if a couple agrees to not let others see their naked bodies, and someone breaks that rule, it doesn't really matter if they were not technically promiscuous, does it? It's cheating by their standards, so the betrayal is still there. I'll ask again, do couples into swinging/threesomes not really love eachother?
TEMP:' "[I]f a couple agrees to not let others see their naked bodies, and someone breaks that rule, it doesn't really matter if they were not technically promiscuous, does it? It's cheating by their standards, so the betrayal is still there...." >> WHAT??? Where did THAT come from? Well, first off, if a couple (outside of those who live according to the laws of Orthodox Judaism) don't allow each other to merely see each other nude, the relationship is in trouble already! (TBC) --FJ
@FinalJusticeMovement By "others" I meant people outside the relationship. A lot of people do consider stripping for a third party (i.e., someone outside the relationship, someone other than the significant other) to be cheating. A lot of people consider going to a strip club to be cheating. A lot of people do consider that to be too intimate.It's really not unusual for couples to be possesive of eachother's bodies in that way. People's standards in regards to fidelity really do vary quite a bit
TEMP:' "[I]f a couple agrees to not let others see their naked bodies, and someone breaks that rule, it doesn't really matter if they were not technically promiscuous, does it? It's cheating by their standards, so the betrayal is still there." >> (cont.) Furthermore, if there is NO INTIMATE ACTIVITY between the couple whatsoever AND they are putting "rules" on each other while doing so, then there is NO BETRAYAL, NO CHEATING, NO LOVE and CERTAINLY NO RELATIONSHIP for either of them! (LOL) -FJ
(part 2) The rest is just mind numbingly obvious. As someone who's worked in a number of areas of the sex industry, I can tell you that the VAST majority of men know that they are paying for a fantasy experience. There is a very small minority of socially inept, confused people who become deluded into thinking a real relationship will develop. It is a business, it is about money. For the majority of people, this goes without saying. Also, Shelly Luben cannot speak for anyone but herself.
The title of this video alone is hilarious. How many people really find themselves in a situation of having to reject a prostitute? Prostitutes aren't soliciting customers on every street corner. You generally have to seek them out. Don't answer an escort ad, don't approach a prostitute who's walking the street, and this will likely never be an issue. Do you go to a restaurant when you're not hungry and yell at the waitress when she tries to take your order?
@FinalJusticeMovement T"he man who feels the need for sex DOES NOT have to PAY for a fantasy experience he can have from someone who will appreciate him for his wit or his personality." Well, yes and no.. No, he does not need to pay for sex, it is entirely his choice and he will not die wihout it, it is purely optional. But the reality is, not every person can get laid on wit and personality alone. Some people are too inept. (cont)
Outstanding video. I try to tell friends and my nephews all about this every now and then. It's one of the reasons I don't go to strip clubs and I never go to Hooters (even if the food was good, which it isn't, I despise being patronized).
@FinalJusticeMovement One thing I wonder about, and I'm not too sure but it's just a part of an observation I have, is if strippers and prostitutes have any genuine self-respect? I don't think they do. Is getting naked for strange men for money remotely dignified? I don't think it is. In fact, for some of these girls, I don't know if they know the meaning of the word Dignity.
@FinalJusticeMovement One thing I wonder about, and I'm not too sure but it's just a part of an observation I have, is if strippers and prostitutes have any genuine self-respect? I don't think they do. Is getting naked for strange men for money remotely dignified? I don't think it is. In fact, for some of these girls, I don't know if they know the meaning of the word Dignity.
@FinalJusticeMovement (cont 2) Of course, just because someone can get laid without paying for it, doesn't mean there aren't reasons why they may prefer it. Maybe he doesn't want to invest too much time and effort. Maybe he's not looking for a relationship and doesn't want to deal with any emotional issues arising. Maybe he has a kink he wants to explore with someone who he knows won't blab about it. Maybe he wants a very specific kind of sex partner, etc.
@MaxxTheMerciless Who is to say what everyone finds "dignified" when it comes to nudity? Some people would never dream of getting naked on a nude beach. Some people object to the very idea of nude beaches existing. Some people would get naked and think nothing of it. I grew up in a hippie community where people frequently went au natural. Nudity is no big deal to me, I don't have negative feelings about other people seeing me naked. Why should that be any different in a club?
@MaxxTheMerciless Who is to say what everyone finds "dignified" when it comes to nudity? Some people would never dream of getting naked on a nude beach. Some people object to the very idea of nude beaches existing. Some people would get naked and think nothing of it. I grew up in a hippie community where people frequently went au natural. Nudity is no big deal to me, I don't have negative feelings about other people seeing me naked. Why should that be any different in a club?
@MissTemperence What happens if someone comes up to you and strips you nude at a public pool? You might feel a bit humiliated, certainly violated, right?
There is a distinct difference between a nude beach and on a street somewhere. But, let's go back to something you touched on. The point of the nude beach is to mitigate the feeling of shame. You don't feel so bad if everyone else is naked too. It's really a form of mental conditioning to what...cont...
@MaxxTheMerciless If someone forced me to do something against my will, yes, I would feel violated. But that is a very different situation than one where I decide to disrobe myself. Yes, there's a difference between a street and a beach. There's also a difference between a street and a club that exists for nude dancing. Not everyone is nude on a nude beach, it is always optional and it is always a mix.
@MissTemperence But you said "Who's to say what everyone finds "dignified?" Evidently, everyone does. And if you find that being nude is as dignified as being clothed, then what difference to you would it be if someone ripped the clothes off your body in a public place? The fact that we designate places indicates a reason we do what we do, though we may have forgotten why. That reason is because we value individual dignity.
@MissTemperence cont... to what is normally a cultural taboo. It's also a segue to debauchery. It's also a well known fact that many nudist also happen to be swingers. I'm not saying necessarily one thing leads to another, but it's possible. Permissiveness in one behavior can and does lead to permissiveness in others.
However, we're also talking about prostitution, not simply going to a nude beach.
I cannot imagine a little girl dreaming of being a prostitute.
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont) You do know that many traditional cultures do not cover breasts, right? There is no one "cultural norm." some of these cultures covered up body parts we consider completely non-sexual, like knees. As for nudists being swingers, that's just your own misconceptions about a group[ you obviously have no experience with and knopw nothing about. You just assume that because YOU equate nudity with sexuality.
@MissTemperence Only those traditional cultures that are closer to the stone age than those that ordinarily don't do you see women routinely going around topless. True, you tend to see that kind of thing on the French and German Rivieras, but you don't see them doing that on the streets of Paris or Berlin, or anywhere else, do you?
And, I said that one debauchery leads to others. Permissiveness leads to other behaviors. Not all nudists are swingers, but many swingers started out as nudists
@MaxxTheMerciless "Only those traditional cultures that are closer to the stone age" So because their culture is different than yours, it is therefore invalid? So what if it's not happening on the street? Just because nudity isn't socially acceptable in every situation doesn't mean it is "degrading." or that people have no respect for themselves. " one debauchery leads to others." You haven't established that nudity is "debauchery." and that's a slippery slop fallacy anyway.
@MissTemperence Yes, they're invalid. Just because some cultures do something is no justification that we should adopt that behavior.
You are the one trying to explain to me why nudity is dignified. I'm trying to show you reality, that your statement is really just a tactic in an effort to win an argument rather than have a discussion.
Now, if you don't have a problem with nudity, here's an idea. Let's mandate all young, unmarried females go around naked.
@MaxxTheMerciless When you are arguing about what is a "natural" taboo by citing that many cultures prohibit nudity, you can't just dismiss the cultures that don't help you win your argument. You are confusing arguments of what is natural, with arguments of what is moral. They are not the same thing. " Let's mandate all young, unmarried females go around naked. " Can you understand the concept of "consent" and why it might be important?
@MissTemperence But it is YOU that thinks that nudity has no sexual component. Fine, if what you say is absolutely true, why not mandate something like that? Why would you have a problem with it? Consent be damned, that's just a convention. Or, at the very least, allow child pornography to be made, bought and sold legally. Surely there might be some children that wouldn't mind being filmed naked.
@MaxxTheMerciless "But it is YOU that thinks that nudity has no sexual component." Nope. What I said is that is is not always sexual, not necessarily sexual. "consent" is not convention. That's an odd statement, and a weak attempt at an argument.
@MissTemperence Weak attempt at an argument? Hardly. And what's more you're grasping at straws. Nudity may not always be sexual depending on the specific context, I agree, but you said that nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual. I'm sorry, but it is. Otherwise, we wouldn't insist on privacy in changing rooms. We wouldn't insist on privacy at a doctor's office. We wouldn't have laws about public indecency.
@MaxxTheMerciless "Nudity may not always be sexual depending on the specific context, I agree, but you said that nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual. I'm sorry, but it is. " These are contradictory statements.
@MissTemperence No, not for any free thinking human being they are not. It depends squarely on the situation. A person knows the difference between art and porn on sight, for instance. But, there is always a sexual component that nudity begins with, but might be mitigated by the circumstance. Seriously, though, if you sit there and believe that there is no necessarily sexual component to nudism, you are truly naive.
@MaxxTheMerciless "But, there is always a sexual component that nudity begins with, but might be mitigated by the circumstance" That's just one persepctive. One could just as easily say that nudity does not start out with a sexual component, and the sexual aspect is created by the circumstances.
@MissTemperence See, what you are trying to do is change the convention, and make the situation relative to the person, and not the society at large. You may say you have no problem with nudity, but why, then, do you bother with clothes beyond the need to stay warm? Do you work? I'm sure you probably would have a problem with being forced to wear suitable attire for the job, as an infringement of your personal liberty.
@MaxxTheMerciless "I'm not really trying to change the convention, I pretty much limit my nudity to places where it is accpeted and to be expected. What I'm doing is challenging your idea that everyone who doesn't share your feelings regarding when and where you feel compfortable being nude somehow lacks respect for themselves.
@MissTemperence Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You said that you don't have a problem with nudism on the whole, that you didn't see it as anyway degrading. If that's the case, then by rights you shouldn't have any problem being naked anywhere for any reason. But by virtue of the FACT THAT YOU DO means that you are not only a hypocrite, but a moron!!! You're trying to justify what you do, and paint the rest of us as being intolerant bigots. But perhaps you might want to reexamine that.
@MaxxTheMerciless I personally do not have a problem with people seeing me nude. That doesn't mean I'm "trying to change convention." I adhere to many laws that I don't necessarily agree with, as one usually must in any society. You're not a bigot for feeling how you feel about nudity, you're a bigot for insisting that other people can't simply have a different personal comfort level regarding nudity than you.
@MissTemperence Nonsense, again. It's not bigotry - since it has a rational component to it, it's not bigotry. By virtue of the fact you know where and when to put your clothes on, and why, means you have some sense of dignity even if you don't fully understand it.
What you are saying also is that if you could you'd get rid of public indecency laws, right?
@MaxxTheMerciless Just because I conform to certain societal standards doesn't mean I agree with them. It doesn't mean I find it undignified to be without clothing. People often refrain from jaywalking if they know they are in an area where people are frequently ticketed for it. That's not a reflection of some deep, personal convictions regarding jaywalking. It's just not worth the potential consequences at that particular time.
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 2) "you'd get rid of public indecency laws, right? " Well actually, in my state, being nude in public is technically legal, and being nude alone is not in violation of "public indecency laws." Certain types of self touching when you are nude would be, but not just being nude. but that doesn't mean I would feel comfortable being nude in front of people who are uncomfortable with it. I don't object to cursing either, but I don't do it in front of my grandmother (cont)
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 3) because that makes her uncomfortable, which in turn would make me feel bad for making her feel that way. That doesn't mean I'm personally opposed to swearing, Basically, what you seem to be implying is that I must feel ashamed of being nude if I'm not willing to do it all the time, regardless of the consequences. That's a very weak argument. I never said nudity can or should take priority over everything.
@MissTemperence No, I didn't imply that. What I said was if you think it's so natural and normal then you ought to go naked anywhere, and not let convention or anything else stop you. By virtue of the fact that you do let convention dictate where you're going to be clothed means there are standards you adopt, even if you say you disagree with them. Have you ever considered the reasons why we have such standards?
@MaxxTheMerciless "and not let convention or anything else stop you." I never said that. What I way saying is that I think the convention is silly, and that I disagree with your idea that our culture's attitude towards nudity is natural or inherent. That doesn't mean it might not be in someone's own best interest to adhere to a convention anyway, even if one does not agree with it. Just because someone adheres to convention, it doesn't follow that the convention is therefore justified.
@MissTemperence Well, I do agree with that. I find it rather hypocritical for a society to allow strip clubs when it disdains brothels. I suppose there is a difference, but my focus is on Excellence within Society, and how do you Promote that? Permissiveness breeds weakness within people; it makes them slothful and apathetic when they need to act, as they look to others to see to what needs to be done.
@MaxxTheMerciless So do you agree that there should be a reason to not be permissive of something? Or should we just be restrictive for the sake of being restrictive? I thought living in a free society meant we allow something unless we have a good reason to not allow it, not just criminalizing things for the sake of it. All this talk of permissiveness does nothing to prove that nudity somehow leads to slothfulness, a pretty bold claim.
@MissTemperence Not at all, but at the same time you don't promote such things.
The point of having a free society is that we, the people, are the rulers of ourselves within a community. One of the things that is sorely lacking is that most people in this nation do not understand what Freedom is. It's not the right to go about naked in public, to fornicate with whomever you choose, to get drunk and stoned, etc. Sure, you can do that, but if left unchecked by a society that....cont...
@MaxxTheMerciless But freedom IS all those things. Being able to make choices about those things you mention is an issue of bodily autonomy, and that has everything to do with freedom. You have nothing to back up what you are saying. You are just making an empty assertion that being permisive of nudity will somehow lead to social ills. That is nothing but a slippery slope fallacy. Sparta's victory came at a toll, not everyone would like to live a life devoted to military and war.
@MissTemperence No it isn't. That is considered Liberty, and Liberty is not the same as Freedom. Liberty in and of itself has no purpose. It bears nor seeks responsibility for what it does, and denies any adverse influence it may have on society at large. And on the contrary, I have lots of evidence to support the fact that when citizens begin to absolve their personal responsibilities, as the Spartans did toward their own society, they always fall well before the enemy is at the gates.
@MaxxTheMerciless "Freedom: 1.The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint." So yes, that's definitely an issue of freedom you're talking about. I would agree that there can be such a thing as too much freedom. I would agree that freedom needs to be limited in certain ways. But it is what it is."
@MissTemperence That's not Freedom. That's Liberty. Again, that is not the kind of thing the Founders thought of when they thought of Freedom. Otherwise, George Washington would not have referred to Religion as an indispensible support for a free society. That only proves my point that our culture has redefined what Freedom actually is.
@MaxxTheMerciless I have shown you the definition. It certainly fits. Reasserting your original point does nothing to address the fact that the definition fits perfectly. It doesn't matter if that's not what the founding fathers had in mind. They also regarded women and blacks as property. The definition of freedom does not start and end with what you believe the founding fathers had in mind. That's very ethnocentric of you.
@MissTemperence No, it doesn't fit, because what you've described is pure liberty.
The whole point of the American Experiment is for people to rule themselves. Liberty is not enough for this, because people want to be successful. That is the other half of Freedom - Purpose. Without it, you have no Freedom, but a license that leads nowhere.
Why can't you incite a panic by yelling "fire" in a crowded theater?
@MaxxTheMerciless What I have described fits both the definition of freedom and liberty. Though I will agree freedom is a rather broad and vague concept. One that a lot of people want to make fit their own more specific definition. There is certainly a freedom in being permitted to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. Though I would say that's not a freedom we should afford people in society.
@MissTemperence But that is my point. Freedom IS NOT the right to do what you please. And why? Because we place limits on that kind of license. And why? Because of Purpose. We place penalties on you should, by the actions you take, and the words you say, incite a riot or a panic where people or property get hurt. That is NOT FREEDOM. Because Freedom must have a Purpose. The purpose of the Freedom of Speech is the transmission of knowledge and Truth, not lies and vulgarity.
@MaxxTheMerciless "Because we place limits on that kind of license." Yes, which is to say we put a limit on freedoms. As well we should. I think you're just trying to make "freedom" mean something more specific than it does. Probably because, as an American, you're emotionally attached to the word "freedom" and want it to have entirely positive connotations. Freedom does not have to "have a purpose," that's not part of it's definition.
Freedom MUST have a purpose. Otherwise, it's not Freedom. Because any boob can mess around and do nothing. It doesn't require any special talent to be a bum. But how long do you think such a person would last if there was nobody to subsidize his behavior? Not very long at all, unless he found he was hungry and was willing to do whatever to feed his hungry stomach. Of course Freedom must have a purpose. Without it, it is not Freedom.
@MaxxTheMerciless I would agree that to be truly free is a balancng act. But that doesn't mean that issues of bodily autonomy regarding drugs, sex, etc. aren't issues of freedom. They still fit the definition. As I said, freedom has many facets. There is "freedom to" and "freedom from," and sometimes they are at odds with eachother.
@MissTemperence Wrong. They most certainly are. Everything has to do with Freedom.
Take Drugs. Libertarians would very much love to end the War on Drugs, and they cite how much damage in terms of life and property it has caused. But, they fail to understand the PURPOSE of the War on Drugs. While I can agree we should legalize it, we need people to fully suffer the consequences of their choices rather than subsidize their rehabilitation through welfare programs.
@MissTemperence I would advise you, with all due respect, not to simply to let a book, especially a dictionary, do your thinking for you. The Founding Fathers didn't. They sought Truth, and Truth can be arrived at both by knowledge and reason.
@MissTemperence See, your definition demonstrates how we've bastardized Freedom into a relative meaning, to the point it has really no meaning at all, nothing fundamental to what a free society looks like or is. We have forgotten, in a sense, and on purpose, by those who wish to make you think that Personal Responsibility on your part is to be avoided. Indeed, in our culture today, it's a negative connotation, but it is the essence of what Freedom is all about.
@MaxxTheMerciless My definition is the dictionary definition, not the definition I would like it to have. If anyone has bastardized it, it's you. Freedom is a vague concept. It is not specific to what you think society should be. Almost every culture thinks they value freedom, but some place more of an emphasis on "freedom to", some place more of an emphasis on "freedom from."
@MissTemperence No, it's not a vague concept. Freedom has a definition, but we've forgotten what it means. YOU simply do not like it. Because that means you've got to grow up.
Not intending to be insulting, but Growing up means taking on responsibilities, to take the time to do things that would otherwise keep you from the pleasures you enjoy. It means fighting, and dying if necessary, so that the nation you live in survives. It means giving birth to children and raising a family. cont.
@MaxxTheMerciless "Freedom has a definition, but we've forgotten what it means." Uh...no we haven't. As evidenced by the fact that I can look it up in the dictionary and show you the definition. YOU are the one who doesn't like the definition. Yes, growing up means taking on responsibilities, tempering freedoms with responsibility.
@MissTemperence Because that definition IS NOT CORRECT. It is not correct.
Freedom IS Responsibility. Freedom IS Power! And Power requires what in order to be successful? Responsibility!
The whole point of the American Experiment is to give people the Power to control their lives. But without Responsibility, and the Indispensible Supports George Washington pointed out, there can be no such thing as Freedom.
@MaxxTheMerciless "Because that definition IS NOT CORRECT" LOL.Freedom and responsibility are not the same thing. Just because they need to be balanced, that does not mean they are the same thing.
@MissTemperence See, what you want to do, is divorce Freedom from Responsibility, like others apparently have, and then redefine it as something that means something that it isn't in an effort for you to cede that responsibility to....someone else.
@MaxxTheMerciless "See, what you want to do, is divorce Freedom from Responsibility" Nope, I've said all along that they need to be balanced. But that does not make them the same thing. You're the one rejecting the official definition, and now you're accusing others of trying to redefine it?
@MissTemperence cont...It means that you place your needs and wants in a subservient position to what OUGHT to be done. You like to run around naked, fine, but you know you can't do that everywhere, all the time, for any reason. There are places for that. But understand that we are finite beings, with constraints on what we can do based on time and energy. How productive is it, how much does it contribute to society, when you frolic about naked on a beach with others?
@MaxxTheMerciless "How productive is it, how much does it contribute to society, when you frolic about naked on a beach with others? " It's not productive when I go to the beach in a one piece either. It's not productive when I sit on my porch enjoying the scenery. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to do those things. Life isn't just about being optimally productive at all times.
@MissTemperence Life may not just being optimally productive, I grant you, but it isn't all about the pursuit of pleasure either. Life is about being the best we can be, in more ways than one. I don't have a problem with pleasure in and of itself, but I do have a problem when we promote it as an alternative to other, far more healthy and productive, activities.
@MaxxTheMerciless "but it isn't all about the pursuit of pleasure either." No, it's a balance. And if someone can't come up with a good reason as to why I shouldn't sit on my porch enjoying the scenery, I'm going to continue doing so in my free time. The same logic applies to nudity. If someone can't explain why and how it's detrimental to society, I'm not going to accept the assertion that it is. What is "more healthy" than laying around on a nude beach?
@MissTemperence What you choose to do is influential. Everything you do, or say, is influential, even if you don't think it is, perhaps in ways you can't even imagine at the present moment. Also, what you choose not to do is also influential. This is why I say behaviors that are permissive even if controlled to some degree lead to other sorts of behaviors. Call this a slippery slope analogy, but it's the truth.
@MaxxTheMerciless "What you choose to do is influential." True, but incredibly vague. These vague ramblings can't be enough to persuade me that tolerating nudity would lead to negative behaviors, anymore than I should believe that tolerating people eating chocolate or wearing plaid is going to lead to negative behaviors. Basically, all you ca say is that tolerating some things might lead to tolerating other things.
@MissTemperence Cont...Would you take children to a nude beach? Do you have a problem with your children seeing you naked? Are you willing to expose them to others who go to such places, even if they might be a bit more sexually expressive than you are? Are you going to make them get naked as well?
Now, as far as I'm aware, they don't allow children at such places, but I could be wrong. If this is the case, would you be willing to allow children there, and be naked with everyone else?
@MaxxTheMerciless I would be comfortable with my children being at a nude beach, of course. As I said, I was raised among nudists, so why wouldn't I? I haven't encountered "sexual expression" at such places. Though child predators are everywhere, I wouldn't worry especially about it at a nude beach. I would not make them get naked, no. Why would I? And yes, they do allow children at many nude beaches, resorts, etc.
@MissTemperence Can you see that if you weren't raised under that influence that perhaps you might not be as comfortable as you are now? The point is that what you do matters. What you do may have repercussions you do not immediately see or are affected by directly. Would you imagine that one thing could lead to others? So you haven't encountered sexual expression where you are at, today, but things do change. And where that change leads is often based on what is permissible today.
@MaxxTheMerciless "Can you see that...perhaps you might not be as comfortable?" Certainly. If I was raised in a family that had a different attitude towards nudity, I'm sure it's most likely my feelings and views would be more in line with theirs. That's kind of my point- this is largely just cultural, not inherent. The rest of this post is just more of the vague "things have consequences" and "one thing could lead to another thing."
@MissTemperence Of course it's cultural. What I challenge is your implication that you might find what the culture finds distasteful is a bit wrong on some level. You want specifics, but that's a strawman argument that ignores history and how cultures rise and fall. It begins somewhere, and if you do not take responsibility for what you choose to do when issues and problems arise you are part of the entropy. Why do many swingers find their way to nudist locales?
@MaxxTheMerciless "What I challenge is your implication that you might find what the culture finds distasteful is a bit wrong on some level." Suggesting that I would feel differently if I was raised differently does nothing to prove that. It's not a straw man argument to say you need a better argument than "things often lead to other things." That could be used to prop up any ridiculous slippery slope fallacy. We might as well fear anything and everything by that logic.
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 2) "Why do many swingers find their way to nudist locales?" I have not found that to be the case at all. And given that I actually spend time at nudist locales and you do not, your assertion of what goes on there means nothing. I don't doubt that there are swingers who also enjoy non-sexual nude environments as well, but if they're not swinging there (and I haven't seen it), then I'm no more concerned by their presense there than I would be at Applebees.
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 2) Yes, but you should be able to explain more of a causation than that, Otherwise, as I said, this could all of this could be said in support of an argument that not wearing purple of every day could "lead to consequences," etc. Your argument is basically "one thing could lead to others...therefore, nudity will lead to something bad." That's not really even an argument.
@MaxxTheMerciless "I have lots of evidence to support the fact that when citizens begin to absolve their personal responsibilities..." For this to make any sense, we first need to establish that there is a responsibility to limit public nudity. You have not yet done that. Until you do that, it makes no more sense than saying there is a responsibility to wear purple everyday.
@MissTemperence We already do limit public nudity. But, at the moment, I would say it's getting more and more laxed these days. When you see radio shows do publicity stunts of strippers holding up signs completely nude and basically getting away with it relatively unscathed by anyone there is something at work there.
The point, though, is to be aware of the influence such behavior can bring.
@MaxxTheMerciless "We already do limit public nudity" Yes, but that doesn't address what I've said. You still haven't proven that there should be a responsibility to limit nudity. Just the mere fact that we do (to varying degrees) does not explain why it is necessary. All you can say is vague things like "there's something at work there." Which explains nothing.
@MissTemperence I can list dozens of other civilizations. France is a spectacular example. There was a time when France had a real empire. They sought excellence but they thought they could channel the baser proclivities of their citizens scientifically and methodologically. Then World War I happens, which devastates France so much that the population resorts to a huge gimmick (the Maginot Line) rather than hard work and responsibility to defend themselves against another attack.
Since World War II, they are but a shadow of what they once were. True, not since Napoleon has France reached greater heights of glory, but at the same time prior to the Great War they weren't doing too bad. Now, look at them. They are the butts of a lot of jokes, and deservedly so.
@MaxxTheMerciless There's a lot that's been said about the end of French imperialism. I wouldn't be so quick to point to cultural aspects. What exactly has happened to the French since WWII? I've lived in France. I found it to be a pretty great place to live, with a populace that enjoys a fairly high standard of living.
@MissTemperence But look at the French now? When there is trouble in the world, the French don't usually go anywhere. Nobody asks them first for help. They ask the US, the UK, Austrailia, Germany, all before they ask France. This is because France isn't too interested in defense anymore, not so much since the US takes that responsibility from them.
@MaxxTheMerciless The French don't have a lot of trouble. Unlike the US, the French don't have to worry about their poor foreign relations making them a target. Are we constantly sending our military to save the French? No. So what if they're not a military super power? Life is about more than power. They enjoy a higher standard of living for their people.
@MissTemperence Actually, in one sense, we are sending our military to save the French. At some point, they decided they didn't want to assert themselves. They abrogated their personal responsibility because they could, and decided to indulge in their own decadence. Why not, when someone else is willing to do the heavy lifting true Freedom requires? You might think they are doing okay, but they are dying. Their culture is decaying, because they do not assert it.
@MaxxTheMerciless meaning they didn't want to involve themselves in foreign affairs that had nothing to do with them? Good for them! I don't see a lot of good coming from the wars the US has been involved in over the last decade.It was never about "defendig freedom." I'm pretty sure France would still be just fine without it. Everyone has been saying Europe is "dying" for decades now. But they continue to do just fine.
@MissTemperence But that means that the French have no say in anything. That means they are inconsequential to the state of Man in the world. That means, whatever they are, they decide they are going to withdraw from Life itself, and let others take over. That is the greatest form of cowardice there is. The license of a lack of personal responsibility means you never have to risk anything when others risk them for you.
@MissTemperence Also, there is a greater and greater preponderance of a Muslim population that insists on France adopting a separate law based on Sharia for the Muslim population. Right now, French President Nicholas Sarcozy is trying to prevent this, but what about the next president? What if they get another like Chirac, which is very likely?
@MissTemperence Persia is another great example, so is Rome, Britain, and lots of others. Persia is particularly instructive. Based on a strange caste structure, the almost 400,000 soldiers that faced Alexander's 44,000 Macedonian Hoplites at the Battle of Gaugamela were totally uninterested in winning the battle. They were untrained (at a time when men were expected on some level to see to their own training), and when they faced actual trained fighting men, they lost spectacularly.
@MissTemperance Back to Persia, the Persian Empire was a very decadent empire. San Francisco could learn a few things from ancient Babylon. Of course, like other nations, Persia was a slave society, and it got so bad that so-called citizens (if you could call them that) would not do certain work expected of slaves, and I'm not talking about the rich. When called upon to fight, most of them were ready and willing to retreat at the first signs of trouble because...cont.
@MissTemperance cont... because they felt no responsibility to the nation they were defending from the likes of an Alexander, who's nation and army, by the way, were focused like a laser, very well disciplined and trained, and not so self-indulgent by the time of Gaugamela. When you replace personal responsibility with Permissive behaviors, over time, it destroys a culture, to the point they are unready to face the enemy when they come.
@MissTemperence cont... that needs to remonstrate such behavior on some level or another, it will fester into other things, not the least of which is very productive or healthy for society at large. When you have a majority of a population that abstains from their own personal responsibilities to both themselves and their communities, and their nation for that matter, you get a deteriorating nation. It may not be so obvious, but....cont...
@MissTemperence cont...but, little by little the look of the country changes by the evils we tolerate.
Take Sparta. When they conquered Athens in the Pellopennesian War they had a strong code of ethics that eschewed the pleasures of the world in order to build the character of the individual Spartan, with the result they had the world's greatest fighting force at that time. But the permissive ways of Athenian culture got the better of the Spartans, until they, too, were conquered.
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont) "Not all nudists are swingers, but many swingers started out as nudists" Do you have anything to back this up, or is this just purely your own speculation? In which case, it's worthless.
@MissTemperence Yes, actually, I do. There have been numerous shows and stories that follow the Swinging community, and a great many of these people attend nude locations and "swingers conventions" in order to network and hook up. More than likely, they either start out there or they end up going there because how likely is it you're going to get agreeable partners where they don't have any problem getting naked in front of strangers? Better than you'd probably think.
@MaxxTheMerciless "and a great many of these people attend nude locations and "swingers conventions" in order to network and hook up" In the swingers community, there are events where people are nude, but that does not mean that they are the same as a nudists event. Swingers are likley nude or close to it while swinging, but it does not mean that nudists are swingers.
@MissTemperence I didn't say all nudists are swingers, but permissiveness travels along the least paths of resistance. And to say that nudism has nothing to do with sex is silly. Perhaps you might have that opinion, but can you be sure that everyone else that enjoys that does too?
@MissTemperence Also, to say that nudists do not enjoy a sexual component to it all is silly on its face. Of course there is. I'm not saying it devolves into orgies and such all the time, but surely such activity crosses the mind. Why not? It's a bit like saying drinking alcohol in and of itself doesn't necessarily compel one to drive intoxicated, but misses the point of the situation entirely.
@MaxxTheMerciless Is there a sexual component to it when you are showering in a locker room? well...maybe so, but not for most people. No, nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual. It's not particularly arousing to be in a nudist community, especially if you have grown up in that community. Once again, I would suggest that the reason you assume there is is because YOU have equated nudity and sexuality.
@MissTemperence In a locker room you're generally in there with members of the same gender.
"Nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual." I bet that's what you keep telling yourself. Okay. Just start walking naked everywhere you go. Don't confine it to just a nude beach. Strut your stuff.
1. You cannot determine what is sexually satisfying for someone else.
2. Sex is not always free, even with non-working girls.
3. Love, respect, and great sex are not mutually inclusive.
4. Movies, video games, network cable--all things that are paid for that aren't real.
5. What if I just want to have sex? What if I don't want a relationship? Why do I have to have sex with someone who "cares about me"? Does that somehow give more validity to the sexual encounter/experience?
Keep in mind, Chromatic, that we are not covering multiple facets of human behavior at the same time (unless otherwise indicated in the video), but rather we are addressing one particular aspect and making one solid point per Lesson. We'll get more specific on details as the Lessons continue. Now, to address your rebuttals: 1) We may not be able to determine what turns everyone on. But we CAN determine that the MAJORITY of people are NOT S&M junkies looking to be sexually mutilated. (TBC) -FJ
3. I should have said "aren't always" mutually inclusive. but I disagree with your stance that sex is ALWAYS better with some one who loves you, etc. Always? Someone can love all they want, but if you suck at something, you just suck. Love and sexual prowess don't always go hand in hand. This I know for a fact, unfortunately. Just because my wife loves me doesn't mean she cooks better than the chef downtown who only wants my money. Laters.
@DionLaurent1 Then you have accepted an old scam. Anyone who pays for sex has been scammed. You give the person sex (sharing your body with another person) + your money. And you get only sex. That is what you call a bad exchange. Sex is and has always been an equivalent change.
@jay890g I agree, it is a equivalent exchange. But that is not how women see it. They see it as them doing you a favor. And most men have followed that crap. These western women think they all have the magical pussy that no man deserves. I personally go over seas for sex. The women are hotter, and humble. Unless you are just having casual sex with a female friend, you are paying in some way. Either by paying for dates, buying her stuff, or the direct transaction.
@DionLaurent1 LMAO! That made my day! Your right about that. As much as it makes me laugh, it makes me angry and sad at the same time. After thinking about for a while. Thanks for the reply.
@jay890g The same goes for me. It makes me laugh and pisses me off. That's why I am a strong advocate of successful men going to foreign, none western countries to find better quality women. And interesting enough, there are feminist women catching on to what we are doing and are trying to make it illegal for American men to communicate online to foreign women. These bitches don't give it up, but they don't want us getting it from anywhere else. Looks like they're scared of competition. LOL
At least a hooker is upfront and tells you how much the sex will cost you before it happens. You girlfriend, or wife-to-be will tell you absolutely nothing.
Marriage really is a form of legalized prostitution. Single men are absolute fools if they get married. The sex gets old very fast. Don't think a prenup will save you either. Prenups are easily circumvented by smart divorce lawyers. So please, stay single and stay happy.
@JP5466 Marriage has become a form a legalized prostitution, and I agree that it has been tarnished and destroyed by a lot of factors. I believe this is by design. Having a family is a particular advantage that promotes a man's power in ways he doesn't have when he's single. So, in my opinion, we need to take it back. We need to be leaders again.
@MaxxTheMerciless The only way we're going to take it back is if we get the divorce laws changed/amended. Until then, there is no way I am going to get married (in the traditional sense) and risk financial ruin. I guess marriage would work out for some men with very little to lose. Still, when the kids come along, she owns you... and your balls too.
@JP5466 I don't disagree. I would not advise any man to get married right now, unless you can be certain the lady in question is loyal and faithful, and even then I would be against it until certain protections are reinforced for men. But it begins, in my opinion, with standing on principles and demanding accountability from women. To do that, we have to put our focus elsewhere, and I believe that is where Faith comes in. Because you can't do this alone.
@pinegrove33 At first I was going to disagree with your statement; you know, the old "everyone loves someone" schtick, but after some careful thought, it really is sad. I've never met a well-adjusted hooker. Damn. Earth is screwed up something terrible.
Sorry, but Lubben is well known for lying and deceit. Anything she says is not to be trusted.
avdmeers 1 month ago
As slippy as Lubben can be at time in her mission,
there are two things you must consider:
1) A broken clock is correct twice a day..
2) NOT ALL, but MUCH of what she says about the adult industry
IS INDEED TRUE. And I know for a FACT that most female sex
workers hate men. (Why do you think the vast majority of porn
"actresses" are bisexual?)
Say what you will about Lubben, but there's no way you can
dispute the truth of what she said in THIS video.
--The Final Justice
FinalJusticeMovement 1 month ago
Sorry I don't get it, What sex on earth is free? Jerkin off ?
gmann1695 2 months ago in playlist More videos from FinalJusticeMovement
However, if a man WANTS temporary, meaningless sex with a strange woman, and as they are both HONEST about it, why shouldn't he be able to pay her without the risk of either of them getting arrested? It's both their own business if that's what they want to do! tOur laws are too much under the influence of religion wether we want to admit it or not.
gwenshin 2 months ago
To honest I don't think hookers loves THEMSELVES much less men. I mean if you sell your body for some cash you clearly don't love yourself! That's another reason why no man should believe a hooker when she says she loves him; how can you love someone if you can't love your own damned self?
asodimu213 2 months ago
Right on, Asodimu.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 2 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement thank you, sir!
asodimu213 2 months ago
@asodimu213 Because people who don't share your personal sexual mores must not love themselves, right? Your assertion is no more persuasive than a traditional Christian who insists that anyone who has sex before marriage doesn't love themselves, or a radical muslims assertion that any woman who doesn't wear a burka is disrespecting themselves.
MissTemperence 2 months ago
@MissTemperence I think you miss the point of what I said. Think logically now. Would any woman with any speck of self respect and intelligence willingly expose themselves to be used for nothing more than cheap sex not to mention the possibility of getting an STD? I don't think so!
asodimu213 2 months ago
@MissTemperence WHOA random religious assertion, right thar. Strawman arguments galore. Is this how you start arguments? If so, that is...sad.
blacktigerpaw1 2 months ago
basic needs met* not men, hhehe
rosskay 4 months ago
I dont think this woman is telling the full truth. I think she is speaking what she personally feels by men. Listening to your videos... I can concur and agree that feminism did damage in terms of gender relations with others, it left a lot of men (and women) angry and confused on how to get thier needs met with the opposite sex. I have been perusing through pages of some MRA's and feel sad to report that tehre are MRA's making the same mistakes as the rad-fems did. I worry about this.
rosskay 4 months ago
First of all, Ross, welcome back. Indeed, I have missed you and I hope all
is well with you. Now, as far as your comment is concerned, your concern
is one that a lot of people, both male and female, MRA and non-MRA alike,
have addressed to us in one form or another. Some of them are genuinely
concerned while others use it as a smarmy reverse-psychology guilt-trip tactic.
Our position is strictly to dispense the truth and expose the social destruction
of radical feminism and backlash it.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement :) thanks. I agree with fixing the damage and confusion stemming from feminism especially the confusion between gender relations. I jsut wonder though where mra's blurr the line of what feminism truely is responsible for, and other things that contributed to problems that men face. then of course liek the radical feminists being misogynist, seeing mra's that are pinning their negativity and blame (even if their feelings are just) on women.
rosskay 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement I aslo watched the other videos, I really like it you put out quality videos! I apprecaite your channel and videos ebcuase I see you as trying to form a bridge between the gap, verses certain MRAs who are just making that gap wider. I don't agree that prostiute all dont care about men (lol) but I think its a graet ans positive step that you encourage men to learn how to engage and charm women for real relationships! it was always my theory that the issues most mra's have to
rosskay 4 months ago
@rosskay it was always my theory that the issues most mra's have today stem from not getting basic needs men from women, society, and attachment needs met ( same for feminists, as you know I tried to help them, and you know how that one went down, lol)
rosskay 4 months ago
You do realize that Shelley Lubben is a complete and total liar and addict in denial whose anti-sex-work crusade has been completely discredited not only by people still active in the porn industry but by women she's claimed to have "saved" as well, right? She is telling you exactly what you want to hear, skillfully whoring out her new "viewpoint" in exactly the same manner which she once used to sell her body in porn flicks. She's full of shit and apparently so are you.
PaulineTriage 4 months ago
In case you HAVEN'T READ OUR DISCLAIMER, Pauline
(which it is quite obvious you haven't), I suggest you do so before
drilling that foot further up your excrementary orifice than you JUST
managed to do. The fact of the matter is that whether or not Shelley
is full of crap or not (which in many cases, she is, especially since
she's no better than a radical feminist), what she said IN THE CLIP
WE USED was 100% true. Is she a liar TO YOU because she
ADMITTED what NO active sex worker will?
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement No, she's a liar to me because she claims to have been forced into porn when she clearly wasn't and because she pretends she's in recovery when she's actually still a drunken pill-popper. And no, what she said in your clip was NOT "100% true" - she claims to speak for all sex workers when she herself is the shittiest of the shitty examples of such. Most of the female porn performers I've met and heard from don't hate men at all. I stand by my original remarks.
PaulineTriage 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement "what she said IN THE CLIP WE USED was 100% true." That sex workers hate men? Does this include the sex workers that are men? What about sex workers who've married someone they met on the job? Do they hate him? To insist that all sex workers all feel the same way about all clients, all the time, is ridiculous, and child-like in it's simplicity.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
FJM: "what she said IN THE CLIP WE USED was 100% true."
TEMP: "Does this include the sex workers that are men?"
>> If you were paying attention, you'd have noticed that Lubben specifically
was talking about FEMALE sex workers.
TEMP: "What about sex workers who've married someone they met
on the job? Do they hate him?"
>> The primary requirement of a sex worker is DEFAULT PROMISCUITY,
and as such, honor or TRUE LOVE in a relationship involving one or
two sex workers cannot exist.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement Ok, so it's only the entirity of all FEMALE sex workers that we feel we can speak for. Gotcha, my apologies. As for the other point, somewhat true. It would depend on how you define promiscuity. Is it promiscuity for a sex worker who dances nude on stage? Or does phone sex? Some would say yes, others no. And of course, there are many married couples who are not sex workers who are swingers, or engage in threesomes, etc Do they not love eachother?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
TEMP:
"Ok, so it's only the entirity of all FEMALE sex workers that we feel we
can speak for. Gotcha, my apologies."
>> Don't twist my words. I clearly pointed you to the fact that SHELLEY LUBBEN
was speaking PARTICULARLY of the women in the sex industry, and since
they are the FOCUS of this video and our series -- not to mention that the vast
majority of all sex workers ARE UNDOUBTEDLY FEMALE -- you should expect
a strict consistency on our behalf to the topic and the points made within.
-FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement My point didn't have much to do with it being female sex workers. My point is, that is still an incredibly huge group of people. It's ridiculous to say that such a large group of people all share the exact same, simplistic feelings about something. Do you really believe you can say that ALL female sex workers hate men? Do you really believe every woman in sex work feels the same way about it? Doesn't that seem suspiciously simplistic to you?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement "Promiscuity is DEFINED as..." You are right. But is it really promiscuity that is the issue, or fidelity? Afterall, if a couple agrees to not let others see their naked bodies, and someone breaks that rule, it doesn't really matter if they were not technically promiscuous, does it? It's cheating by their standards, so the betrayal is still there. I'll ask again, do couples into swinging/threesomes not really love eachother?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
TEMP:
"[I]s it really promiscuity that is the issue, or fidelity?"
>> Just what I was getting at. Where there is promiscuity, there can be NO
FIDELITY WHATSOEVER, especially when trying to establish a relationship.
(to be continued)
--The Final Justice
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement By "others" I meant people outside the relationship. A lot of people do consider stripping for a third party (i.e., someone outside the relationship, someone other than the significant other) to be cheating. A lot of people consider going to a strip club to be cheating. A lot of people do consider that to be too intimate.It's really not unusual for couples to be possesive of eachother's bodies in that way. People's standards in regards to fidelity really do vary quite a bit
MissTemperence 4 months ago
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
TEMP:
"Is it promiscuity for a sex worker who dances nude on stage?
Or does phone sex? Some would say yes, others no."
>> Obviously not. However (as indicated by my previous comment),
this doesn't mean that the potential for promiscuous behavior
doesn't exist. Nude dancing (not including burlesque) and phone sex
(where there is no physical contact) are NOT acts of intercourse.
However, if the dancer or phone sex operator keeps contact with a
# of clients, promiscuity is possible.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
TEMP:
"[T]here are many married couples who are not sex workers who are
swingers, or engage in threesomes, etc Do they not love each other?"
>> Married or devoted couples DO NOT NEED outside sources be they
human or mechanical) to fulfill their respective sexual desires if they
TRULY love each other -- no matter HOW HIGH their sex drives are. Sex is
a BOND that never leaves a person's mental history. Too many SEXUAL
bonds can alter an individual's perception of LOVE, so the answer is no.
-FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 4 months ago
(part 2) The rest is just mind numbingly obvious. As someone who's worked in a number of areas of the sex industry, I can tell you that the VAST majority of men know that they are paying for a fantasy experience. There is a very small minority of socially inept, confused people who become deluded into thinking a real relationship will develop. It is a business, it is about money. For the majority of people, this goes without saying. Also, Shelly Luben cannot speak for anyone but herself.
MissTemperence 5 months ago
The title of this video alone is hilarious. How many people really find themselves in a situation of having to reject a prostitute? Prostitutes aren't soliciting customers on every street corner. You generally have to seek them out. Don't answer an escort ad, don't approach a prostitute who's walking the street, and this will likely never be an issue. Do you go to a restaurant when you're not hungry and yell at the waitress when she tries to take your order?
MissTemperence 5 months ago
Semantically speaking, you're correct, Temp.
But, in essence, you know exactly what the basic message of our title ensues.
Communication and solicitation of ANY nature is a two-way street.
Sex workers prey on potential customers just as much as the other way around.
Don't forget -- it's the HOOKER that needs the money. The man who feels the
need for sex DOES NOT have to PAY for a fantasy experience he can have from
someone who will appreciate him for his wit or his personality.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago
Semantically speaking, you're correct, Temp.
But, in essence, you know exactly what the basic message of our title ensues.
Communication and solicitation of ANY nature is a two-way street.
Sex workers prey on potential customers just as much as the other way around.
Don't forget -- it's the HOOKER that needs the money. The man who feels the
need for sex DOES NOT have to PAY for a fantasy experience he can have from
someone who will appreciate him for his wit or his personality.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement T"he man who feels the need for sex DOES NOT have to PAY for a fantasy experience he can have from someone who will appreciate him for his wit or his personality." Well, yes and no.. No, he does not need to pay for sex, it is entirely his choice and he will not die wihout it, it is purely optional. But the reality is, not every person can get laid on wit and personality alone. Some people are too inept. (cont)
MissTemperence 5 months ago
Outstanding video. I try to tell friends and my nephews all about this every now and then. It's one of the reasons I don't go to strip clubs and I never go to Hooters (even if the food was good, which it isn't, I despise being patronized).
MaxxTheMerciless 5 months ago
RIGHT ON, Maxx!
Sounds like a good topic idea for the future.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago in playlist More videos from FinalJusticeMovement
@FinalJusticeMovement One thing I wonder about, and I'm not too sure but it's just a part of an observation I have, is if strippers and prostitutes have any genuine self-respect? I don't think they do. Is getting naked for strange men for money remotely dignified? I don't think it is. In fact, for some of these girls, I don't know if they know the meaning of the word Dignity.
Dignity can be very attractive.
MaxxTheMerciless 5 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement One thing I wonder about, and I'm not too sure but it's just a part of an observation I have, is if strippers and prostitutes have any genuine self-respect? I don't think they do. Is getting naked for strange men for money remotely dignified? I don't think it is. In fact, for some of these girls, I don't know if they know the meaning of the word Dignity.
Dignity can be very attractive.
MaxxTheMerciless 5 months ago
This is why we put these videos together.
The bottom line for female sex workers, particularly hookers, strippers,
Hooters girls and most porn film performers,has NOTHING AT ALL
to do with DIGNITY and EVERYTHING to do with a financial and/or
political MEANS TO AN END provided by MEN --
which is what FEMINISM is all about!!
--The Final Justice
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago
@FinalJusticeMovement (cont 2) Of course, just because someone can get laid without paying for it, doesn't mean there aren't reasons why they may prefer it. Maybe he doesn't want to invest too much time and effort. Maybe he's not looking for a relationship and doesn't want to deal with any emotional issues arising. Maybe he has a kink he wants to explore with someone who he knows won't blab about it. Maybe he wants a very specific kind of sex partner, etc.
MissTemperence 5 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless Who is to say what everyone finds "dignified" when it comes to nudity? Some people would never dream of getting naked on a nude beach. Some people object to the very idea of nude beaches existing. Some people would get naked and think nothing of it. I grew up in a hippie community where people frequently went au natural. Nudity is no big deal to me, I don't have negative feelings about other people seeing me naked. Why should that be any different in a club?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless Who is to say what everyone finds "dignified" when it comes to nudity? Some people would never dream of getting naked on a nude beach. Some people object to the very idea of nude beaches existing. Some people would get naked and think nothing of it. I grew up in a hippie community where people frequently went au natural. Nudity is no big deal to me, I don't have negative feelings about other people seeing me naked. Why should that be any different in a club?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence What happens if someone comes up to you and strips you nude at a public pool? You might feel a bit humiliated, certainly violated, right?
There is a distinct difference between a nude beach and on a street somewhere. But, let's go back to something you touched on. The point of the nude beach is to mitigate the feeling of shame. You don't feel so bad if everyone else is naked too. It's really a form of mental conditioning to what...cont...
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless If someone forced me to do something against my will, yes, I would feel violated. But that is a very different situation than one where I decide to disrobe myself. Yes, there's a difference between a street and a beach. There's also a difference between a street and a club that exists for nude dancing. Not everyone is nude on a nude beach, it is always optional and it is always a mix.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence But you said "Who's to say what everyone finds "dignified?" Evidently, everyone does. And if you find that being nude is as dignified as being clothed, then what difference to you would it be if someone ripped the clothes off your body in a public place? The fact that we designate places indicates a reason we do what we do, though we may have forgotten why. That reason is because we value individual dignity.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence cont... to what is normally a cultural taboo. It's also a segue to debauchery. It's also a well known fact that many nudist also happen to be swingers. I'm not saying necessarily one thing leads to another, but it's possible. Permissiveness in one behavior can and does lead to permissiveness in others.
However, we're also talking about prostitution, not simply going to a nude beach.
I cannot imagine a little girl dreaming of being a prostitute.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont) You do know that many traditional cultures do not cover breasts, right? There is no one "cultural norm." some of these cultures covered up body parts we consider completely non-sexual, like knees. As for nudists being swingers, that's just your own misconceptions about a group[ you obviously have no experience with and knopw nothing about. You just assume that because YOU equate nudity with sexuality.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Only those traditional cultures that are closer to the stone age than those that ordinarily don't do you see women routinely going around topless. True, you tend to see that kind of thing on the French and German Rivieras, but you don't see them doing that on the streets of Paris or Berlin, or anywhere else, do you?
And, I said that one debauchery leads to others. Permissiveness leads to other behaviors. Not all nudists are swingers, but many swingers started out as nudists
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "Only those traditional cultures that are closer to the stone age" So because their culture is different than yours, it is therefore invalid? So what if it's not happening on the street? Just because nudity isn't socially acceptable in every situation doesn't mean it is "degrading." or that people have no respect for themselves. " one debauchery leads to others." You haven't established that nudity is "debauchery." and that's a slippery slop fallacy anyway.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Yes, they're invalid. Just because some cultures do something is no justification that we should adopt that behavior.
You are the one trying to explain to me why nudity is dignified. I'm trying to show you reality, that your statement is really just a tactic in an effort to win an argument rather than have a discussion.
Now, if you don't have a problem with nudity, here's an idea. Let's mandate all young, unmarried females go around naked.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless When you are arguing about what is a "natural" taboo by citing that many cultures prohibit nudity, you can't just dismiss the cultures that don't help you win your argument. You are confusing arguments of what is natural, with arguments of what is moral. They are not the same thing. " Let's mandate all young, unmarried females go around naked. " Can you understand the concept of "consent" and why it might be important?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence But it is YOU that thinks that nudity has no sexual component. Fine, if what you say is absolutely true, why not mandate something like that? Why would you have a problem with it? Consent be damned, that's just a convention. Or, at the very least, allow child pornography to be made, bought and sold legally. Surely there might be some children that wouldn't mind being filmed naked.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "But it is YOU that thinks that nudity has no sexual component." Nope. What I said is that is is not always sexual, not necessarily sexual. "consent" is not convention. That's an odd statement, and a weak attempt at an argument.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Weak attempt at an argument? Hardly. And what's more you're grasping at straws. Nudity may not always be sexual depending on the specific context, I agree, but you said that nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual. I'm sorry, but it is. Otherwise, we wouldn't insist on privacy in changing rooms. We wouldn't insist on privacy at a doctor's office. We wouldn't have laws about public indecency.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
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@MaxxTheMerciless "Nudity may not always be sexual depending on the specific context, I agree, but you said that nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual. I'm sorry, but it is. " These are contradictory statements.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence No, not for any free thinking human being they are not. It depends squarely on the situation. A person knows the difference between art and porn on sight, for instance. But, there is always a sexual component that nudity begins with, but might be mitigated by the circumstance. Seriously, though, if you sit there and believe that there is no necessarily sexual component to nudism, you are truly naive.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
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@MaxxTheMerciless "But, there is always a sexual component that nudity begins with, but might be mitigated by the circumstance" That's just one persepctive. One could just as easily say that nudity does not start out with a sexual component, and the sexual aspect is created by the circumstances.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence See, what you are trying to do is change the convention, and make the situation relative to the person, and not the society at large. You may say you have no problem with nudity, but why, then, do you bother with clothes beyond the need to stay warm? Do you work? I'm sure you probably would have a problem with being forced to wear suitable attire for the job, as an infringement of your personal liberty.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "I'm not really trying to change the convention, I pretty much limit my nudity to places where it is accpeted and to be expected. What I'm doing is challenging your idea that everyone who doesn't share your feelings regarding when and where you feel compfortable being nude somehow lacks respect for themselves.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You said that you don't have a problem with nudism on the whole, that you didn't see it as anyway degrading. If that's the case, then by rights you shouldn't have any problem being naked anywhere for any reason. But by virtue of the FACT THAT YOU DO means that you are not only a hypocrite, but a moron!!! You're trying to justify what you do, and paint the rest of us as being intolerant bigots. But perhaps you might want to reexamine that.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless I personally do not have a problem with people seeing me nude. That doesn't mean I'm "trying to change convention." I adhere to many laws that I don't necessarily agree with, as one usually must in any society. You're not a bigot for feeling how you feel about nudity, you're a bigot for insisting that other people can't simply have a different personal comfort level regarding nudity than you.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Nonsense, again. It's not bigotry - since it has a rational component to it, it's not bigotry. By virtue of the fact you know where and when to put your clothes on, and why, means you have some sense of dignity even if you don't fully understand it.
What you are saying also is that if you could you'd get rid of public indecency laws, right?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless Just because I conform to certain societal standards doesn't mean I agree with them. It doesn't mean I find it undignified to be without clothing. People often refrain from jaywalking if they know they are in an area where people are frequently ticketed for it. That's not a reflection of some deep, personal convictions regarding jaywalking. It's just not worth the potential consequences at that particular time.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 2) "you'd get rid of public indecency laws, right? " Well actually, in my state, being nude in public is technically legal, and being nude alone is not in violation of "public indecency laws." Certain types of self touching when you are nude would be, but not just being nude. but that doesn't mean I would feel comfortable being nude in front of people who are uncomfortable with it. I don't object to cursing either, but I don't do it in front of my grandmother (cont)
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 3) because that makes her uncomfortable, which in turn would make me feel bad for making her feel that way. That doesn't mean I'm personally opposed to swearing, Basically, what you seem to be implying is that I must feel ashamed of being nude if I'm not willing to do it all the time, regardless of the consequences. That's a very weak argument. I never said nudity can or should take priority over everything.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence No, I didn't imply that. What I said was if you think it's so natural and normal then you ought to go naked anywhere, and not let convention or anything else stop you. By virtue of the fact that you do let convention dictate where you're going to be clothed means there are standards you adopt, even if you say you disagree with them. Have you ever considered the reasons why we have such standards?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "and not let convention or anything else stop you." I never said that. What I way saying is that I think the convention is silly, and that I disagree with your idea that our culture's attitude towards nudity is natural or inherent. That doesn't mean it might not be in someone's own best interest to adhere to a convention anyway, even if one does not agree with it. Just because someone adheres to convention, it doesn't follow that the convention is therefore justified.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Well, I do agree with that. I find it rather hypocritical for a society to allow strip clubs when it disdains brothels. I suppose there is a difference, but my focus is on Excellence within Society, and how do you Promote that? Permissiveness breeds weakness within people; it makes them slothful and apathetic when they need to act, as they look to others to see to what needs to be done.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless So do you agree that there should be a reason to not be permissive of something? Or should we just be restrictive for the sake of being restrictive? I thought living in a free society meant we allow something unless we have a good reason to not allow it, not just criminalizing things for the sake of it. All this talk of permissiveness does nothing to prove that nudity somehow leads to slothfulness, a pretty bold claim.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Not at all, but at the same time you don't promote such things.
The point of having a free society is that we, the people, are the rulers of ourselves within a community. One of the things that is sorely lacking is that most people in this nation do not understand what Freedom is. It's not the right to go about naked in public, to fornicate with whomever you choose, to get drunk and stoned, etc. Sure, you can do that, but if left unchecked by a society that....cont...
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless But freedom IS all those things. Being able to make choices about those things you mention is an issue of bodily autonomy, and that has everything to do with freedom. You have nothing to back up what you are saying. You are just making an empty assertion that being permisive of nudity will somehow lead to social ills. That is nothing but a slippery slope fallacy. Sparta's victory came at a toll, not everyone would like to live a life devoted to military and war.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence No it isn't. That is considered Liberty, and Liberty is not the same as Freedom. Liberty in and of itself has no purpose. It bears nor seeks responsibility for what it does, and denies any adverse influence it may have on society at large. And on the contrary, I have lots of evidence to support the fact that when citizens begin to absolve their personal responsibilities, as the Spartans did toward their own society, they always fall well before the enemy is at the gates.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "Freedom: 1.The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint." So yes, that's definitely an issue of freedom you're talking about. I would agree that there can be such a thing as too much freedom. I would agree that freedom needs to be limited in certain ways. But it is what it is."
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence That's not Freedom. That's Liberty. Again, that is not the kind of thing the Founders thought of when they thought of Freedom. Otherwise, George Washington would not have referred to Religion as an indispensible support for a free society. That only proves my point that our culture has redefined what Freedom actually is.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless I have shown you the definition. It certainly fits. Reasserting your original point does nothing to address the fact that the definition fits perfectly. It doesn't matter if that's not what the founding fathers had in mind. They also regarded women and blacks as property. The definition of freedom does not start and end with what you believe the founding fathers had in mind. That's very ethnocentric of you.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence No, it doesn't fit, because what you've described is pure liberty.
The whole point of the American Experiment is for people to rule themselves. Liberty is not enough for this, because people want to be successful. That is the other half of Freedom - Purpose. Without it, you have no Freedom, but a license that leads nowhere.
Why can't you incite a panic by yelling "fire" in a crowded theater?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless What I have described fits both the definition of freedom and liberty. Though I will agree freedom is a rather broad and vague concept. One that a lot of people want to make fit their own more specific definition. There is certainly a freedom in being permitted to yell "fire" in a crowded theater. Though I would say that's not a freedom we should afford people in society.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence But that is my point. Freedom IS NOT the right to do what you please. And why? Because we place limits on that kind of license. And why? Because of Purpose. We place penalties on you should, by the actions you take, and the words you say, incite a riot or a panic where people or property get hurt. That is NOT FREEDOM. Because Freedom must have a Purpose. The purpose of the Freedom of Speech is the transmission of knowledge and Truth, not lies and vulgarity.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "Because we place limits on that kind of license." Yes, which is to say we put a limit on freedoms. As well we should. I think you're just trying to make "freedom" mean something more specific than it does. Probably because, as an American, you're emotionally attached to the word "freedom" and want it to have entirely positive connotations. Freedom does not have to "have a purpose," that's not part of it's definition.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Completely wrong!
Freedom MUST have a purpose. Otherwise, it's not Freedom. Because any boob can mess around and do nothing. It doesn't require any special talent to be a bum. But how long do you think such a person would last if there was nobody to subsidize his behavior? Not very long at all, unless he found he was hungry and was willing to do whatever to feed his hungry stomach. Of course Freedom must have a purpose. Without it, it is not Freedom.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless I would agree that to be truly free is a balancng act. But that doesn't mean that issues of bodily autonomy regarding drugs, sex, etc. aren't issues of freedom. They still fit the definition. As I said, freedom has many facets. There is "freedom to" and "freedom from," and sometimes they are at odds with eachother.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Wrong. They most certainly are. Everything has to do with Freedom.
Take Drugs. Libertarians would very much love to end the War on Drugs, and they cite how much damage in terms of life and property it has caused. But, they fail to understand the PURPOSE of the War on Drugs. While I can agree we should legalize it, we need people to fully suffer the consequences of their choices rather than subsidize their rehabilitation through welfare programs.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence I would advise you, with all due respect, not to simply to let a book, especially a dictionary, do your thinking for you. The Founding Fathers didn't. They sought Truth, and Truth can be arrived at both by knowledge and reason.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence See, your definition demonstrates how we've bastardized Freedom into a relative meaning, to the point it has really no meaning at all, nothing fundamental to what a free society looks like or is. We have forgotten, in a sense, and on purpose, by those who wish to make you think that Personal Responsibility on your part is to be avoided. Indeed, in our culture today, it's a negative connotation, but it is the essence of what Freedom is all about.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless My definition is the dictionary definition, not the definition I would like it to have. If anyone has bastardized it, it's you. Freedom is a vague concept. It is not specific to what you think society should be. Almost every culture thinks they value freedom, but some place more of an emphasis on "freedom to", some place more of an emphasis on "freedom from."
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence No, it's not a vague concept. Freedom has a definition, but we've forgotten what it means. YOU simply do not like it. Because that means you've got to grow up.
Not intending to be insulting, but Growing up means taking on responsibilities, to take the time to do things that would otherwise keep you from the pleasures you enjoy. It means fighting, and dying if necessary, so that the nation you live in survives. It means giving birth to children and raising a family. cont.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "Freedom has a definition, but we've forgotten what it means." Uh...no we haven't. As evidenced by the fact that I can look it up in the dictionary and show you the definition. YOU are the one who doesn't like the definition. Yes, growing up means taking on responsibilities, tempering freedoms with responsibility.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Because that definition IS NOT CORRECT. It is not correct.
Freedom IS Responsibility. Freedom IS Power! And Power requires what in order to be successful? Responsibility!
The whole point of the American Experiment is to give people the Power to control their lives. But without Responsibility, and the Indispensible Supports George Washington pointed out, there can be no such thing as Freedom.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "Because that definition IS NOT CORRECT" LOL.Freedom and responsibility are not the same thing. Just because they need to be balanced, that does not mean they are the same thing.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence See, what you want to do, is divorce Freedom from Responsibility, like others apparently have, and then redefine it as something that means something that it isn't in an effort for you to cede that responsibility to....someone else.
That is what has happened.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "See, what you want to do, is divorce Freedom from Responsibility" Nope, I've said all along that they need to be balanced. But that does not make them the same thing. You're the one rejecting the official definition, and now you're accusing others of trying to redefine it?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence cont...It means that you place your needs and wants in a subservient position to what OUGHT to be done. You like to run around naked, fine, but you know you can't do that everywhere, all the time, for any reason. There are places for that. But understand that we are finite beings, with constraints on what we can do based on time and energy. How productive is it, how much does it contribute to society, when you frolic about naked on a beach with others?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "How productive is it, how much does it contribute to society, when you frolic about naked on a beach with others? " It's not productive when I go to the beach in a one piece either. It's not productive when I sit on my porch enjoying the scenery. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to do those things. Life isn't just about being optimally productive at all times.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Life may not just being optimally productive, I grant you, but it isn't all about the pursuit of pleasure either. Life is about being the best we can be, in more ways than one. I don't have a problem with pleasure in and of itself, but I do have a problem when we promote it as an alternative to other, far more healthy and productive, activities.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "but it isn't all about the pursuit of pleasure either." No, it's a balance. And if someone can't come up with a good reason as to why I shouldn't sit on my porch enjoying the scenery, I'm going to continue doing so in my free time. The same logic applies to nudity. If someone can't explain why and how it's detrimental to society, I'm not going to accept the assertion that it is. What is "more healthy" than laying around on a nude beach?
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence What you choose to do is influential. Everything you do, or say, is influential, even if you don't think it is, perhaps in ways you can't even imagine at the present moment. Also, what you choose not to do is also influential. This is why I say behaviors that are permissive even if controlled to some degree lead to other sorts of behaviors. Call this a slippery slope analogy, but it's the truth.
cont...
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "What you choose to do is influential." True, but incredibly vague. These vague ramblings can't be enough to persuade me that tolerating nudity would lead to negative behaviors, anymore than I should believe that tolerating people eating chocolate or wearing plaid is going to lead to negative behaviors. Basically, all you ca say is that tolerating some things might lead to tolerating other things.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Cont...Would you take children to a nude beach? Do you have a problem with your children seeing you naked? Are you willing to expose them to others who go to such places, even if they might be a bit more sexually expressive than you are? Are you going to make them get naked as well?
Now, as far as I'm aware, they don't allow children at such places, but I could be wrong. If this is the case, would you be willing to allow children there, and be naked with everyone else?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless I would be comfortable with my children being at a nude beach, of course. As I said, I was raised among nudists, so why wouldn't I? I haven't encountered "sexual expression" at such places. Though child predators are everywhere, I wouldn't worry especially about it at a nude beach. I would not make them get naked, no. Why would I? And yes, they do allow children at many nude beaches, resorts, etc.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Can you see that if you weren't raised under that influence that perhaps you might not be as comfortable as you are now? The point is that what you do matters. What you do may have repercussions you do not immediately see or are affected by directly. Would you imagine that one thing could lead to others? So you haven't encountered sexual expression where you are at, today, but things do change. And where that change leads is often based on what is permissible today.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "Can you see that...perhaps you might not be as comfortable?" Certainly. If I was raised in a family that had a different attitude towards nudity, I'm sure it's most likely my feelings and views would be more in line with theirs. That's kind of my point- this is largely just cultural, not inherent. The rest of this post is just more of the vague "things have consequences" and "one thing could lead to another thing."
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Of course it's cultural. What I challenge is your implication that you might find what the culture finds distasteful is a bit wrong on some level. You want specifics, but that's a strawman argument that ignores history and how cultures rise and fall. It begins somewhere, and if you do not take responsibility for what you choose to do when issues and problems arise you are part of the entropy. Why do many swingers find their way to nudist locales?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "What I challenge is your implication that you might find what the culture finds distasteful is a bit wrong on some level." Suggesting that I would feel differently if I was raised differently does nothing to prove that. It's not a straw man argument to say you need a better argument than "things often lead to other things." That could be used to prop up any ridiculous slippery slope fallacy. We might as well fear anything and everything by that logic.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 2) "Why do many swingers find their way to nudist locales?" I have not found that to be the case at all. And given that I actually spend time at nudist locales and you do not, your assertion of what goes on there means nothing. I don't doubt that there are swingers who also enjoy non-sexual nude environments as well, but if they're not swinging there (and I haven't seen it), then I'm no more concerned by their presense there than I would be at Applebees.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont 2) Yes, but you should be able to explain more of a causation than that, Otherwise, as I said, this could all of this could be said in support of an argument that not wearing purple of every day could "lead to consequences," etc. Your argument is basically "one thing could lead to others...therefore, nudity will lead to something bad." That's not really even an argument.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Before you respond to all this, I should ask you to look at a video, just to understand where I'm coming from.
Look up Archbishop Fulton Sheen - Freedom on YouTube. He's quite charming and is a delight to listen to.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "I have lots of evidence to support the fact that when citizens begin to absolve their personal responsibilities..." For this to make any sense, we first need to establish that there is a responsibility to limit public nudity. You have not yet done that. Until you do that, it makes no more sense than saying there is a responsibility to wear purple everyday.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence We already do limit public nudity. But, at the moment, I would say it's getting more and more laxed these days. When you see radio shows do publicity stunts of strippers holding up signs completely nude and basically getting away with it relatively unscathed by anyone there is something at work there.
The point, though, is to be aware of the influence such behavior can bring.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "We already do limit public nudity" Yes, but that doesn't address what I've said. You still haven't proven that there should be a responsibility to limit nudity. Just the mere fact that we do (to varying degrees) does not explain why it is necessary. All you can say is vague things like "there's something at work there." Which explains nothing.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence I can list dozens of other civilizations. France is a spectacular example. There was a time when France had a real empire. They sought excellence but they thought they could channel the baser proclivities of their citizens scientifically and methodologically. Then World War I happens, which devastates France so much that the population resorts to a huge gimmick (the Maginot Line) rather than hard work and responsibility to defend themselves against another attack.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperance Cont... Now look at France.
Since World War II, they are but a shadow of what they once were. True, not since Napoleon has France reached greater heights of glory, but at the same time prior to the Great War they weren't doing too bad. Now, look at them. They are the butts of a lot of jokes, and deservedly so.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless There's a lot that's been said about the end of French imperialism. I wouldn't be so quick to point to cultural aspects. What exactly has happened to the French since WWII? I've lived in France. I found it to be a pretty great place to live, with a populace that enjoys a fairly high standard of living.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence But look at the French now? When there is trouble in the world, the French don't usually go anywhere. Nobody asks them first for help. They ask the US, the UK, Austrailia, Germany, all before they ask France. This is because France isn't too interested in defense anymore, not so much since the US takes that responsibility from them.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless The French don't have a lot of trouble. Unlike the US, the French don't have to worry about their poor foreign relations making them a target. Are we constantly sending our military to save the French? No. So what if they're not a military super power? Life is about more than power. They enjoy a higher standard of living for their people.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Actually, in one sense, we are sending our military to save the French. At some point, they decided they didn't want to assert themselves. They abrogated their personal responsibility because they could, and decided to indulge in their own decadence. Why not, when someone else is willing to do the heavy lifting true Freedom requires? You might think they are doing okay, but they are dying. Their culture is decaying, because they do not assert it.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless meaning they didn't want to involve themselves in foreign affairs that had nothing to do with them? Good for them! I don't see a lot of good coming from the wars the US has been involved in over the last decade.It was never about "defendig freedom." I'm pretty sure France would still be just fine without it. Everyone has been saying Europe is "dying" for decades now. But they continue to do just fine.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence But that means that the French have no say in anything. That means they are inconsequential to the state of Man in the world. That means, whatever they are, they decide they are going to withdraw from Life itself, and let others take over. That is the greatest form of cowardice there is. The license of a lack of personal responsibility means you never have to risk anything when others risk them for you.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Also, there is a greater and greater preponderance of a Muslim population that insists on France adopting a separate law based on Sharia for the Muslim population. Right now, French President Nicholas Sarcozy is trying to prevent this, but what about the next president? What if they get another like Chirac, which is very likely?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Persia is another great example, so is Rome, Britain, and lots of others. Persia is particularly instructive. Based on a strange caste structure, the almost 400,000 soldiers that faced Alexander's 44,000 Macedonian Hoplites at the Battle of Gaugamela were totally uninterested in winning the battle. They were untrained (at a time when men were expected on some level to see to their own training), and when they faced actual trained fighting men, they lost spectacularly.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperance Back to Persia, the Persian Empire was a very decadent empire. San Francisco could learn a few things from ancient Babylon. Of course, like other nations, Persia was a slave society, and it got so bad that so-called citizens (if you could call them that) would not do certain work expected of slaves, and I'm not talking about the rich. When called upon to fight, most of them were ready and willing to retreat at the first signs of trouble because...cont.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperance cont... because they felt no responsibility to the nation they were defending from the likes of an Alexander, who's nation and army, by the way, were focused like a laser, very well disciplined and trained, and not so self-indulgent by the time of Gaugamela. When you replace personal responsibility with Permissive behaviors, over time, it destroys a culture, to the point they are unready to face the enemy when they come.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence cont... that needs to remonstrate such behavior on some level or another, it will fester into other things, not the least of which is very productive or healthy for society at large. When you have a majority of a population that abstains from their own personal responsibilities to both themselves and their communities, and their nation for that matter, you get a deteriorating nation. It may not be so obvious, but....cont...
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence cont...but, little by little the look of the country changes by the evils we tolerate.
Take Sparta. When they conquered Athens in the Pellopennesian War they had a strong code of ethics that eschewed the pleasures of the world in order to build the character of the individual Spartan, with the result they had the world's greatest fighting force at that time. But the permissive ways of Athenian culture got the better of the Spartans, until they, too, were conquered.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless (cont) "Not all nudists are swingers, but many swingers started out as nudists" Do you have anything to back this up, or is this just purely your own speculation? In which case, it's worthless.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Yes, actually, I do. There have been numerous shows and stories that follow the Swinging community, and a great many of these people attend nude locations and "swingers conventions" in order to network and hook up. More than likely, they either start out there or they end up going there because how likely is it you're going to get agreeable partners where they don't have any problem getting naked in front of strangers? Better than you'd probably think.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless "and a great many of these people attend nude locations and "swingers conventions" in order to network and hook up" In the swingers community, there are events where people are nude, but that does not mean that they are the same as a nudists event. Swingers are likley nude or close to it while swinging, but it does not mean that nudists are swingers.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence I didn't say all nudists are swingers, but permissiveness travels along the least paths of resistance. And to say that nudism has nothing to do with sex is silly. Perhaps you might have that opinion, but can you be sure that everyone else that enjoys that does too?
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MissTemperence Also, to say that nudists do not enjoy a sexual component to it all is silly on its face. Of course there is. I'm not saying it devolves into orgies and such all the time, but surely such activity crosses the mind. Why not? It's a bit like saying drinking alcohol in and of itself doesn't necessarily compel one to drive intoxicated, but misses the point of the situation entirely.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MaxxTheMerciless Is there a sexual component to it when you are showering in a locker room? well...maybe so, but not for most people. No, nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual. It's not particularly arousing to be in a nudist community, especially if you have grown up in that community. Once again, I would suggest that the reason you assume there is is because YOU have equated nudity and sexuality.
MissTemperence 4 months ago
@MissTemperence In a locker room you're generally in there with members of the same gender.
"Nudism is not inherently and necessarily sexual." I bet that's what you keep telling yourself. Okay. Just start walking naked everywhere you go. Don't confine it to just a nude beach. Strut your stuff.
MaxxTheMerciless 4 months ago
@MassEFR34k Ha!
XYChromatic 5 months ago
1. You cannot determine what is sexually satisfying for someone else.
2. Sex is not always free, even with non-working girls.
3. Love, respect, and great sex are not mutually inclusive.
4. Movies, video games, network cable--all things that are paid for that aren't real.
5. What if I just want to have sex? What if I don't want a relationship? Why do I have to have sex with someone who "cares about me"? Does that somehow give more validity to the sexual encounter/experience?
XYChromatic 5 months ago
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago in playlist More videos from FinalJusticeMovement
2) In "The Smart Man's Guide", we START OFF by speaking about
the TRADITIONAL ILLEGAL prostitute", but we are WELL AWARE of
the LEGAL prostitute and WE WILL cover such aspects in due time.
3) Love, respect, and great sex actually ARE mutually inclusive,
especially if you DESIRE it to be so. Sex is ALWAYS better with
MUTUALLY loving, respectful, and (most importantly) COMPATIBLE couples.
Other than that, PAID sex is is NOT guaranteed to be GREAT sex either.
(TBC)
--The Final Justice
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago in playlist More videos from FinalJusticeMovement
@FinalJusticeMovement
1. Meaning?
2. Fair enough.
3. I should have said "aren't always" mutually inclusive. but I disagree with your stance that sex is ALWAYS better with some one who loves you, etc. Always? Someone can love all they want, but if you suck at something, you just suck. Love and sexual prowess don't always go hand in hand. This I know for a fact, unfortunately. Just because my wife loves me doesn't mean she cooks better than the chef downtown who only wants my money. Laters.
XYChromatic 5 months ago
Hmm. Perhaps, I should have emphasized that sex TENDS to be better
with someone who is more so COMPATIBLE with you. With overall
compatibility often comes SEXUAL compatibility.
I hope I've made myself a little bit more clear, Chromatic.
Thanks all the same.
--FJ
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago in playlist More videos from FinalJusticeMovement
@XYChromatic Thanks! And I agree with your 5 statements! Excellent Work!
DionLaurent1 5 months ago
Sex is NEVER free! Either spend money on a date that won't always guarantee sex, are get prostitute. Either way, you are paying.
DionLaurent1 5 months ago
@DionLaurent1 Then you have accepted an old scam. Anyone who pays for sex has been scammed. You give the person sex (sharing your body with another person) + your money. And you get only sex. That is what you call a bad exchange. Sex is and has always been an equivalent change.
jay890g 5 months ago
@jay890g Correction : equivalent exchange
jay890g 5 months ago
@jay890g I agree, it is a equivalent exchange. But that is not how women see it. They see it as them doing you a favor. And most men have followed that crap. These western women think they all have the magical pussy that no man deserves. I personally go over seas for sex. The women are hotter, and humble. Unless you are just having casual sex with a female friend, you are paying in some way. Either by paying for dates, buying her stuff, or the direct transaction.
DionLaurent1 5 months ago
@DionLaurent1 LMAO! That made my day! Your right about that. As much as it makes me laugh, it makes me angry and sad at the same time. After thinking about for a while. Thanks for the reply.
jay890g 5 months ago
@jay890g The same goes for me. It makes me laugh and pisses me off. That's why I am a strong advocate of successful men going to foreign, none western countries to find better quality women. And interesting enough, there are feminist women catching on to what we are doing and are trying to make it illegal for American men to communicate online to foreign women. These bitches don't give it up, but they don't want us getting it from anywhere else. Looks like they're scared of competition. LOL
DionLaurent1 5 months ago
@DionLaurent1 I agree.
XYChromatic 5 months ago
At least a hooker is upfront and tells you how much the sex will cost you before it happens. You girlfriend, or wife-to-be will tell you absolutely nothing.
Marriage really is a form of legalized prostitution. Single men are absolute fools if they get married. The sex gets old very fast. Don't think a prenup will save you either. Prenups are easily circumvented by smart divorce lawyers. So please, stay single and stay happy.
JP5466 5 months ago
@JP5466 Marriage has become a form a legalized prostitution, and I agree that it has been tarnished and destroyed by a lot of factors. I believe this is by design. Having a family is a particular advantage that promotes a man's power in ways he doesn't have when he's single. So, in my opinion, we need to take it back. We need to be leaders again.
MaxxTheMerciless 5 months ago
And in time, Max, we WILL address that aspect in all of its own context.
--The Final Justice
FinalJusticeMovement 5 months ago in playlist More videos from FinalJusticeMovement
@MaxxTheMerciless The only way we're going to take it back is if we get the divorce laws changed/amended. Until then, there is no way I am going to get married (in the traditional sense) and risk financial ruin. I guess marriage would work out for some men with very little to lose. Still, when the kids come along, she owns you... and your balls too.
JP5466 5 months ago
@JP5466 I don't disagree. I would not advise any man to get married right now, unless you can be certain the lady in question is loyal and faithful, and even then I would be against it until certain protections are reinforced for men. But it begins, in my opinion, with standing on principles and demanding accountability from women. To do that, we have to put our focus elsewhere, and I believe that is where Faith comes in. Because you can't do this alone.
MaxxTheMerciless 5 months ago
how anyone could think a hooker would love anyone is beyond me, sad
pinegrove33 5 months ago
@pinegrove33 At first I was going to disagree with your statement; you know, the old "everyone loves someone" schtick, but after some careful thought, it really is sad. I've never met a well-adjusted hooker. Damn. Earth is screwed up something terrible.
XYChromatic 5 months ago
So true and right on the mark. That female at the end on the video knows. She sonds as if she still is a man hater.
uratrick 5 months ago
1) All women exchange sexual experiences for financial rewards.
2) A good hooker/Stripper/Gold digger/ (BAD) Wife is like a hypnotist. She'll fool a "trick" into feeling like a "Real Man" .
3) Men Pay to be hypnotized.
4) Please Lean about Men before you make videos.
St1kyFinguz 5 months ago