"Atheists in the closet" I don't think anyone should hide that they are atheists! I found it quite fun being the only one out of my family and my school to be the only atheist. I even put it on Facebook so everyone could know my beliefs! it's a free country and I don't get why anyone would be judged on the fact that they are atheist? unless you're hanging around some hardcore Christians :P
The Catholic Church is full of old pedophiles and hypocrites still propagating the myths and superstitions of people who lived in the Bronze Age.
Our civilization begins when we no longer give credence to these lunatics. You do not get morality, equality, or democracy from the bible; you get genocide, racism, and tribalism.
Nice move for Hartman to cut Silverman off early so he could preach his point of view for the second half of the video without any opposition. What a pussy.
"religion of atheism"??? funny how he seems to use the word "religion" to negate atheism. i dont believe in santa, i guess thats a religion too!!! what a pathetic and transparent tactic.
Why does he cut the interview short only to give himself free time at the end to define the issue? That is unfair to the invited guest. I have the impression he does this often.
@RigbyBullnut Well, if you are a religious subhuman, then "thinking" is something you know little about. XD Thats why you can be religious. Your inability to think for yourself. Thinking is what makes me a Human, makes me superior to you and places a barrier between me and being a degenerate child rapist oppressive religitard. Don't bust a hemisphere pretending you know what "thinking" is. Just go read your Bible of death and be happy Humans provide for you.
@699backstab I merely suggested the opposite of what you typed - as far as I can see, you can dish it, but you can't take it, huh?
How 'bout we make a truce? You stop trashing people with beliefs beyond your own "free-thinking" comprehension, and I'll stop retaliating towards you, the self-appointed "superior" party - deal?
@RigbyBullnut You are right I cant take it. Too much integrity. I never want to be the one taking, just the one dishing. It is a battle of words and the subject is god. Ive chosen the natural state of homo sapein sapen and that is the secular atheistic point of view, you lean towards the superstitious tarot cards, Jesus concepts. We might throw in alchemy and astrology to make you see more easily how ridiculous your side really is. Your outlook is built upon a house of cards.
@699backstab That's a no then. My apologies to you. I didn't realise I was talking an expert on the doings of the hereafter. Should I be assuming you have exclusive knowledge that the rest of humanity do not possess? Have you been deceased, and "there was nothing there", or found out without a shadow of a doubt that there is definitely no God?
Tell me about your oh-so impressive experiences outside of this realm of existance that have led you to your strong assertions.
Ill use another feature built into real Humans and one which you are devoid of, logic.It is the theist that makes the claim that there is an afterlife. The claimant saddles themselves with the burden of proof. So it is you the insane religitard that must put forth your scientific, peer reviewed, demonstrable, empirical evidence for me and other Humans to mull over. When we are satisfied we will rule on your assertion. Your claim is extraordinary and requires equivalent evidence
@699backstab You want knowledge with a strong evidence base? Go look in a science book, there's plenty there.
Faith, on the other hand, does not require evidence. Like most athiests that want to aggressively prove their point, you are asking for that which doesn't exist - you either believe it or you don't.
You refer to yourself as a "free-thinker" - yet you cannot think outside the box you have created for yourself - you're trapped by your own assertion of "no God".
@699backstab Whatever your story is, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if you're an athiest, a Buddhist, a Martian. Whatever, do what you want.
The only objection I have is when you come on here just to insult others, just for not believing as you do. Guess what - your reality is just for YOU. I couldn't care less whether you agree with what I believe in, but could you at least respect other people's opinions and beliefs? Especially considering this argument is largely theoretical.
Its important to stamp out bad ideas. It is no longer acceptable to think what ever you want. Or to believe what ever you want. This is how bad ideas prosper and it is how religion has brought my species to the brink of extinction. Facts are facts. There aren't facts for me and facts for you. Is math one way for you and another for me? God isn't there. This fact is as solid as math because the amount of evidence available to prove He is, is zero. And that is good math XD
@699backstab "It is no longer acceptable to think what ever you want. Or to believe what ever you want." Says who? Who are you, the thought police?
I suggest if ANYONE should be keeping things to themselves, it should be you and that twisted Orwellian thought process you have going on.
I am a person of faith. There, I said it, and I won't be silent about it just because it offends athiests. And I can't be the only one who believes that.
@RigbyBullnut The war on religion is next. It going to be a massacre. Although religion is much more skilled at killing raping and murdering, it has had thousands of years of practice at exterminating Human life, when it comes to freedom, for which religion does not stand, Atheists will fight harder and win out. Atheists don't murder and they don't rape because they aren't hurting for Jesus. Atheists hurt for good causes. So watch out religitard. Join the Humans, fight for freedom
@699backstab I am fighting for freedom - fighting for freedom against you. If you had your way, anyone that expressed anything not validated by scientists under experimental conditions would be executed.
No. Freedom is not being told what we can & cannot believe.
I am willing to admit that in the past, people have acted atrociously in the name of religion. But that is only half the story. Humans are more than just beasts, they have spirit and soul, & I will fight for my right to express it
@RigbyBullnut Science is your only worthwhile endeavor. Everything else has no real value. I say, convert to Human Atheist or go see your god. 5 billion failed fallen ridiculous degenerates in a hole in the desert covered with bibles and korans and pig guts just to get the process moving along. In a million years the Atheists will have fuel for their cars
@699backstab So you would be so vile against a fellow human being (yes human being, genetically no different), just because he believes in something beyond your own limited comprehension? That tells me all I need to know about you.
I recognise a lost cause when I see one. Unless YOU have something worthwhile to offer, this is my last reply. If I don't respond, it's because you've offered nothing but horse manure for an answer. Good luck with that.
"So you would be so vile against a fellow human being (yes human being, genetically no different), just because he believes in something beyond your own limited comprehension? That tells me all I need to know about you."
I agree with your reaction...However, you must understand this is how Christians and Muslims see atheists...Even my own mother who doesn't know I'm a non-believer, thinsk the WORST a person can be is an atheist. And this is just for the disbelief :P
@TurboDally I don't have a problem with athiests in general, I really don't. Its just this one in particular that got my attention for all the wrong reasons.
Beliefs are for an individual to decide. But there is a difference between free will and
1.insulting
2.declaring war on
3. burying in pig guts
someone just because they don't share the same opinion as you.
You're a non-believer, fine, I'm not one to judge you for it. I would only ask you for the same mutual respect, agreed?
@RigbyBullnut wrote: "If you had your way, anyone that expressed anything not validated by scientists under experimental conditions would be executed."
LOL... you gotta be kidding me?? If atheist's had their way people who didn't accept science would be ridiculed, not killed. The same cannot be said for theists who kill people who don't believe as they do.
@atheistram I have never asked an athiest to be silent, nor have I spoken out in support of legislating Christian morality. If that's all you have taken from my posts, go back and read them more carefully.
And by the way, despite what you might think, an individual's reality IS subjective - given that people perceive things differently, their resultant reality will also be unique.
@atheistram Agreed. So the possibility of God should be a reality for everyone. Believers embrace this existance, athiests reject it, agnostics aren't sure of it. But for any one of those groups to declare "MY truth is the REAL ABSOLUTE truth with NO margin of error" - they are deluding themselves. One thing agnostics have going for them is that they are smart enough to realise that they don't know everything.
@atheistram That is the beauty of faith. It is not for one to wait around for evidence.
Unfortunately there is the ugly side of faith, where people take it TOO far, and I can understand why people might turn away from religion because of that.
My most basic principle is: if you know love, you know God.
@atheistram You can take that as such, its a matter of personal perception.
And saying if you know love, you know God - its just a philosophy. It works the same the other way around, because God = love. That's just what I believe. Again, feel free to be argumentative and make snide remarks about the way I look at things, since your opinion is so much more valid and correct then mine.
I think the mystic feeling would be emphasized when a person becomes an atheist. Since every reason and logic of atheists come from the EMPIRICAL NATURE. When a person understands the beauty of the earth, the stars, or the universe, that's when he or she fully appreciates the beauty of nature... this is what SAGAN'S telling, that peculiar connection between the natural world (THE REAL ONE) and the person itself. THAT'S THE BEST MIRACLE.
I've never met anyone who has gone apeshit because you said "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" (on the Internet or otherwise). Is this a manufactured thing or what?
Believers? Belief requires a faith. A lack of belief is not a faith. Otherwise, we would all have inifinite faith, for there is an infinite number of things not to believe.
What an idiot. First of all, atheism is NOT a religion. Secondly, this nonsense about people like Pol Pot and other dictators doing what they did because of removal of religion is wrong. They became the state religion. Pol Pot, Stalin and Kim Jong Il became the gods of their countries. This has been discussed, over and over. The interviewer needs to do more research.
What all of those dictators (you forgot Adolf Hitler) did was to replace the religious ideas with their own ideas. "If the people are gullible enough to eat that religious crap, they goin' to eat my facist-crap as well!".
It's all about gullibility wether a god is included or not.
That's why critcal thinkers are persecuted in all non-democratic, non-free societies.
@TheCurmudgen Actually, Kim Il-sung became the god of North Korea. His son, Jong-il, was not considered nearly as highly as his father, and his official title reflected such. Just the same, the personality cult definitely extended into his dictatorship, and now it extends into Jong-un's dictatorship.
ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION...Why do people keep trying to say that? The general public has NO IDEA what atheism really is. They just paint red horns on it and call it a day.
@SupremeARA915 Alright asshole, my topic wasn't about the holidays. It was about the definition of atheism and how it gets distorted.
Now then, on the topic of conversion, you should care because you're supposed to spread the word of god to everyone. After all, that's what christianity says to do. If you don't care, then you're not really a Christian. You're just some punk who likes the comforting fables religion offers but won't do everything mandated by your religion.
@acoti There's probably a reason why SupremeARA915 doesn't try to convert you - you have no interest in what he/she, or any other "religious nut" has to tell you, coz you ain't listening to a word of it (lost cause).
As a Christian, I don't try to convert people as I also believe in a person's right to believe in what they want. It would be like a muslim trying to convert me - I wouldn't want to hear it, because it contradicts the faith I already have.
@RigbyBullnut Then he's not a Christian and neither are you. When you think people should decide their faith for themselves, you're not being Christian; you're being rational. You're leaving it up to the person to decide, not trying to convince them of something like religious dogma does to many people from the day we are born. Kids at Jesus camp aren't being allowed to make their own choices because this is how Christianity works.
You sir, are a rational person and I appreciate that.
@acoti I believe in Jesus as the Saviour of the world. In my humble opinion, that would make me a Christian. But that's just me. I say Christian and not a bible-basher, they can't look up from their books long enough to notice life happening (I cope it from them too for not being extreme enough). You'd probably like nothing better than to distance me from them (I don't blame you, I'm a pretty likeable guy. :P) but I can't deny what my heart tells me. And thank you for seeing the difference.
I remember this, this is sad. I can't imagine waking up every morning to unravel the beliefs of people worldwide. if i didn't agree i would just get over myself....
Religions, flawed as they might be, still have some values at their core. The kind of Militant Atheism this Silverman guy is promoting has nothing in its core - Reason can mean a whole lot of different things, not all good. Reason in Nazi Germany or Communist Russia meant that getting rid of weak/undesirable people was reasonable because they drag down the rest of society and drive away resources from the fittest.
Carl Sagan actually labeled himself an agnostic. Technically I think that term was incorrect for someone who does not hold a belief in a god but thats what he labeled himself.
and why did this guy call atheism a religion? O_o
and what is all this talk of freakin "mystics" at the end? o_O
@LeftHandCookie No, we KNOW there is no god. Just as we KNOW dragons and Santa don't exist. The burden of proof doesn't sit on those who deny the crazy claims of a higher power, it sits on those making the claims. Therefore, we cannot BELIVE there is no god because we never said there was a god to begin with.
@jugarnaut40 actually, you don't KNOW anything doesn't exist. you believe it. have you studied and examined the whole of the universe and existence? no you haven't.
@Follower172 This is the dumbest argument. I say I know there is no god. If you use your logic, then you should at the very least be polytheistic and worship every god of every religion. You should also be preparing for a vampire attack because after all, you don't know for sure that vampires don't really exist. Come on, can't you see how dumb that sounds?
@jugarnaut40 how is that a dumb argument? I used YOUR logic! you are arguing that YOUR OWN logic is dumb. My logic is simply, I presuppose that God exists, you don't. I have a Christian world view, you dont. My worldview is more consistent than yours, and you borrow from mine to make sense of yours. example would be that you cannot give me a rational reason why something like, rape for example, is wrong. objectively, morally wrong.
@Follower172 How is that my logic? When did I once say that you can't know something doesn't exist?
As for rape, well it's pretty simple. Neither of us want to be raped. So we can agree not to rape each other. Morals come from humans. Not from god. They aren't really there, we just super impose a list of circumstances that we can all find objectionable. This is how any descent society operates. And believe you me, your view hasn't a speck on consistency in it.
@jugarnaut40 neither of us want to be raped, but what about the guy who thinks it is okay to rape someone whether they like it or not? WHY is he wrong? you have no rational basis, because if you are consistent, you would say that he ISN'T wrong, that you simply don't agree with him!
@Follower172 I'm getting that feeling like I'm talking to a wall. I tried to make it clear that the label of right and wrong are completely arbitrary. Humans decide what's right and what's wrong. So yes, the guy who thinks it's cool to rape anyone he wants technically isn't wrong. But I, and the vast majority of humanity, don't agree with him. Now the reason we deem it morally wrong is because he's hurting others against their own will. All these rules of society and morality come from humans!
@jugarnaut40 So all you can tell a rape victim, ultimately is that you and most people don't agree with it, but it ISN'T wrong. What happened to her/him, really isn't wrong, it is just something that we don't like. that is ALL you can offer them.
@Follower172 Not some fucked up, imaginary friend who you seem to have no problem believing in or worshiping. What about the crusades? Can you explain that? Why did your god feel it necessary to slaughter men women and children who didn't believe in your specific religion? Now I'm pretty sure you can't disagree with him because after all, that's considered a sin. And you most likely won't say he's wrong for commanding it because once again, that's a major sin. So please, explain yourself.
@jugarnaut40 yeah, so the crusades happened. a defensive action was initiated by Rome against the attacking muslim invaders. and yes atrocities and bad things happened and were committe by both sides. how is that an argument? evil men did evil things. just because someone bombs an abortion clinic in the name of Jesus doesn't mean he is speaking for Jesus. again...SHOW me where the Bible commands Christians to kill or do those things...still waiting
@Follower172 Did you not read the rest of the comment? Or maybe you haven't read the old testament. He commands that gays be hung, that disobedient children be stoned, that those who work on the sabbath be put to death. What about the story where Abraham is commanded to kill his own son? There are so many situations in which the penalty is death or death is commanded that for you to even ask for one reference is pretty pathetic seeing as how you claim to be a bible following christian.
Anyone who'll tell you the bible doesn't say to kill people has never read the bible. They think the bible is nothing but love and fairy tales and promise of eternal heaven. Morons, the whole lot of them.
Perhaps you should read the bible yourself.
Another favorite technique of believers is when they say they only accept the new testament. Well, I reject 1 more testament than you do. Then, how different are we really?
@Follower172 Are you blind or just dense? evilbible(dot)com /Murder(dot)htm
You're under the impression that just because you're Christians you're exempt from the bible's commands. Wrong. When the bible commands it, it must be carried out for it is the word of God. To think he must specify who should carry out the order is absurd and a blatant attempt at fruitlessly exonerating yourself from the blood on your God's hands.
@acoti so you are equating God carrying out judgement in the Old testament against people who tried to whipe out Israel, and against people who are justly condemned as sinners with God randomly telling all believers to kill people? my point? you need to consider context. the OT was s theocracy, you won't even allow for context, because as soon as God condems someone, you only see him killing, and nothing else. and since all you can say is you don't like it...what is your argument?
@Follower172 Please do me a favor and properly punctuate your thoughts so I can understand what you're saying. In what context is it ok for capital punishment to be executed for merely working on the sabbath, or for the mere accusation of being a witch, or for being a homosexual. Tell me in what context is that ok.
@Follower172 Also, your response to rape not being an absolute moral transgression is nothing more than an appeal to emotion.
Politician use it all the time. "No Child Left Behind Act" -If it helps just ONE child, then this program is a success. Fuck anyone who believes that.
Morality is determined by the masses because they survive and make the best rules. Not some book written by some random people using it to control people.
@acoti again...what is your evidence that morality is determined by the masses? so you are saying that it is agreed on by popular vote? you are full of it, you don't live that way. Jeeze, a guy goes home for Christmas break, and celebrates and people think he "gives up" on an argument. If I press you on this, you will say RAPE IS wrong, not that you think it is bad, or that you don't like it. You live inconsistently with what you say. why should I take you seriously?
@Follower172 You're under the impression here that the popular vote is always stagnant. The popular vote until recently was that homosexuality is an abomination. (This of course was due to the bible's influence). Now, the opinion of the masses is changing.
A man of faith asking for evidence? Sad to say, I have not researched this, nor have I looked at other researchers' works on the matter, but it is something I have hypothesized for a long time now.
@Follower172 LOL, I like your use of the rape example. Rape is wrong because it is forcing someone to submit to an act against their will. It is a violation of someone's rights. The funny thing is, killing someone for being gay is just as much of a violation of someone's rights as is rape. The same can be said for killing someone for working on the sabbath. It's just plain wrong but the bible tells us it is right.
@Follower172 In fact, the bible tells that if your daughter is raped, the man who carried out the act must pay for her and he is to wed her. But of course, there has to be some sort of context that makes this ok right? NO, there ISN'T.
I think these acts are wrong because they are direct violations of someone else's rights. Rights which societies have agreed on over thousands of years because this is how we survive and live longer. You believe they are wrong because some book tells you so.
@acoti IT doesn't say that. The Hebrew word isn't raped, it is simply if a man has sex with a woman out of wedlock! learn your hebrew before going there. even in consensual sex, where the woman wants sex, in hebrew culture (hence the "context") if a man sleeps with a woman, even if she wants it, he is acting outside God's law, he is now responsible for her wellbeing. so you are right, context doesn't make something right or wrong, but it does allow you to actually understand what was said!!
@Follower172 " If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deuteronomy 22:28-29
@Follower172 You are stagnant. You are unwilling to change because you have accepted God as the highest authority. His word will always be your law. Tell me then, if God's word is your law, why do you follow municipal laws, or victimless federal laws or any other law not established by God himself? Why do you not own slaves? God permits it.
Oh wait, is it because you live inconsistently with what you say? You dare make that claim of me when you clearly live the lie?
@acoti God established the governments we have now, and so long as the laws we have don't violate his law, I am doing just fine. municipal laws don't violate his law. And the Bible did not condemn nor did it command or condone slavery. IT was a fact that slavery existsed, and he told slaves to serve as you would serve Christ, and told owners to love and to care for their slaves. what is your argument exactly? SHow me how I live a lie. show me where I am inconsistent...
@Follower172 I think acoti is talking about old testament laws, the ones that deal out death sentences to homosexuals, people who work over the Sabbath, blasphemers, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is pointing out that you don't uphold those laws as decreed by God Himself, then how can you call yourself Christian?
I know the answer, but I"ll let you field this one ....
@RigbyBullnut i'll address both. the hebrew words (the OT was written in hebrew) DO NOT mean rape, the NIV translaters got it wrong...hence the reason no other translation agrees with them. second, I addressed the OT laws. they were given to the children of israel, not all people. The Jews were given the laws and ordinences, and they were based on sin or not sin. If it is a sin that a person lies with another man, then it is punishable by death...but you both ignore the fact that Christ...
@Follower172 Christ fulfilled the OT law entirely, the law was meant to show us that we needed a savior, since no one can actually keep the law. The NT (the new covenant ) is based on grace and imputed righteousness and is for all people (jew/gentile alike) not just for the jews. you are picking and choosing, I am using the entire council of scripture.
@Follower172 You live inconsistently because you do not kill people who work on Sunday, or people who are gay, or people who have struck their parents, or so many other people for so many other reasons. This is the word of God. Federal law prohibits murder. Federal law violates God's law. You don't follow God's law. You follow Federal law which is dictated by humanity. You live inconsistently.
@Follower172 In a nutshell, my point is that you should learn to judge and think for yourself. Don't take anything as truth just because you were raised since childhood to believe in it.
@jugarnaut40 I go home for Christmas break and enjoy family time and don't respond for a few days and they think I give up. cheeky. And since I couldn't respond to the other one...I asked for Acoti to show me the validity of reason without actually using reason. he seems to think I am the only one using circular reasoning. we all presuppose reason and logic, but we have never proven them. so I will stop using circular reasoning when you show me reasons validity without using reason itself
@Follower172 I'll do what I can to validate reason, because you seem to honestly believe this is a large obstacle against my argument.
You get in a car and start it up. You did that because from past experience, the car has started when you turned the key. You made a reasonable assumption.
If a grenade lands right next to your feet while you're in a battlefield, through past experience and a desire to survive and carry out your mission, you'll reasonably assume it'll blow and duck for cover
@acoti I did NOT say to validate reason and leave it at that. I said, validate reason WITHOUT actually USING reason to validate reason. The point is, you called my argument circular, for assuming what I have yet to prove (God) you do the EXACT same thing. You use reason to "prove" evolution (for example) becaue science is based on logic and reason, but you can't help but use logic and reason in validating logic and reason. my point was, I'll stop being circular in argument when you do
@Follower172 Well, you got me. I can't prove reason's validity without using reason. There's not much else I can say about that expect that I hope you don't have too much trouble living your entire life based solely on faith. Since reason isn't valid and whatnot.
But I do hope you realize that you're comparing apples to oranges here so your inquiry about reason's validity is itself invalid.
@acoti You are guilty of the same thing!!!! your life is also entirely based on faith if you presuppose something to be true without proving it!!! I didn't say reason is NOT valid!!! think for yourself for a minute. I never said reason is not valid. I said you (personally) are circular because you accept reason but cannot prove it (unless using reason to do so). I accept reason as valid, and I have a rational basis for it and logic, you do not. you can't account for either, you just use them
@Follower172 See, you're kinda wrong about that. Your logic is based on assuming things to be true without proving them whereas mine is based on assuming things to be untrue unless proven to be true. I don't have to prove reason's validity without using reason because we all know that reason works.
I don't understand how you could think that using reason is circular. We know it works, we see that it works. Validating it without reason just seems purely nonsensical.
@Follower172 Reason is what allows for our survival and continuation of our species.
To take everything on faith is to put your life in grave danger at every turn of a corner.
I don't know if you'll accept my conclusion on reason, but if you're so opposed, you're more than welcome to live your life on faith and faith alone. And don't confuse reason with faith. Assuming food will give your energy is based on reason, not faith so make sure to differentiate between the two.
@acoti With all due respect, life is an uncertain thing - nothing is absolutely guaranteed. So some people (like Follower172, even me) develop faith - faith that God will take care of us, faith that He knows what He is doing, faith that isn't backed up with watertight evidence. Of course, we could resort to saying, "life is shit, no-one is there", but I would rather be a bit more philosophical than that. Call it a fairytale if you must, from previous posts it is clear you've missed the point.
@RigbyBullnut I get the feeling that you're implying Atheists can't appreciate life. Should I be correct in feeling that, then you are wholly mistaken.
As for your opener, I understand that very well. Many people use religion and the promise of eternal happiness as a crutch so they could move forward. This, as innocent as it may seem, is dangerous as demonstrated by radical islamists. This is why separation of church and state is crucial.
@acoti I'm not at all suggesting that athiests cannot appreciate life - when life is all you believe in (i.e. no afterlife etc) and all that exists to you, I'm sure you're going to appreciate the life that has been given to you all the more, considering that's once it's done, there is nothing afterwards.
I too appreciate life, but from a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I am merely stating that your philosophy is not for me, and that should be fine for you, right?
@RigbyBullnut That is more than ok with me. I've no problem with others believing in god, but this whole debate started with how Follower172 defined atheism. I weighed in and it went from there. This has been a level headed discussion and I'm enjoying it. I don't expect him to convert, so everything here has been for discussion/debate. I don't intend to leave it at, "You have different views from me so let's leave it there" I learn nothing that way. I want to see where he's coming from.
@acoti As for the mention of radical islamists, I disgree with ANY fundamentalist from ANY religion, be it a muslim plunging a plane into a building or a catholic fundamentalist blowing up an abortion clinics and shooting doctors who practice as such.
Its fundamentalists that screw things up for everyone, because they can't see past their own beliefs to respect other people, and end up killing "in the name of God". As a peaceful individual I refuse to cause harm. I'm a lover not a fighter.
@RigbyBullnut If religion is what gets you going every day and keeps you motivated and not thinking about death or what's out there, I can accept that and that's fine. Use it to keep yourself up. But DO NOT expect everyone to believe what you believe and DO NOT expect laws to be dictated by he whom you hold as your lord. Maybe it's just me but I think that's sufficient for both parties.
You may say "life's shit, no one's there" I say "It's amazing I got here; better do what I can while I can"
@acoti Religion is not what gets me going every day to keep me motivated. LIFE is what keeps me going. I just happen to give thanks to something that is superior than me. I want the freedom to express that, just like you have to freedom to express whatever it is you believe. No, I don't expect everyone to believe as I do, its called free will, to do what we want with it. And I don't have a problem with your attitude towards life, in fact its a good philosophy to have.
@RigbyBullnut My apologies. I had hoped it would show that I was directing that to the general populace but I was wrong. I meant not to direct that towards you.
Your belief on our origins and deities differs greatly from mine but you sound like you live a moral life. It is something I most appreciate in people and it is they whom make my life bearable.
@acoti I can certainly understand why you would react to me the way you did when I said I was Christian. The people you associate with that label are the same people that give me crap about being too liberal.
"Oh you're not a real Christian because blah blah blah"
You and I probably share a similar opinion of those biblebashing, brainwashed individuals. Let me assure you, I'm not like that.
Anyone capable of love is a good person in my book, their choice of faith is just another detail.
@Follower172 Because if you get your morals from god, then you should stone to death your disobedient child. You should be donation everything you own to the poor. You should be hanging gays and murdering those who disagree with you. Because that's what your fucked book of fairy tales tells you to do. But I'm pretty fucking sure your world view, as obscure is it may be, looks nothing like that. So go ahead, do your best to find my some consistency.
@jugarnaut40 It would be nice if you would actually read the old and new testament as one book, and be consistent in your argument. Where, for example, are Christians told to hang gays and murder those who disagree? Show me where the Bible says that, I will de-convert. Confusing old testament theocracy (that was only for the children of israel - the Jews) and the new testament covenant of grace is kind of silly. while you rant and rail, why not show some examples. argue consistently
@AD6043 and off is a tv channel :) merry christmas, happy hanukah, happy kwanza, happy Arab spring (not sure what it is), and happy new year! im an atheist, and i sponsor this message
My position is that religious beliefs are harmful because of the relationship with how people determine truth and morality. If someone's view of reality is not as accurate as it could be than they will make less moral decisions simply because in order to decide what will do the most good someone needs to analyze reality. He admits that positive feelings can come out of both but that isn't what people say is wrong with religion(at least not me) its how its based on faith and appeals to authority.
American Atheists stated main goal is for the civil rights of Atheists with a secondary goal of seperation. There are other orgs that have the main goal of seperation. FFRF and Americans United. Silverman should have pointed that out to the host who wanted to know why not focus on seperation.
Such a tired argument against atheism... Really? Stalin, Mao, Paul Pot atheist regimes? Let's see; One central father figure who is all knowing and infallible. One authority that no ordinary man can dispute and must obey without question or be punished. Sounds familiar?
The measure of whether it is,..........consists of the following.
Can it apply and get tax free status like a church or mosque ?
Is there an offering plate involved ?
If you can say yes to both questions, it is a religion.
AutoBahnForever 1 week ago
"Atheists in the closet" I don't think anyone should hide that they are atheists! I found it quite fun being the only one out of my family and my school to be the only atheist. I even put it on Facebook so everyone could know my beliefs! it's a free country and I don't get why anyone would be judged on the fact that they are atheist? unless you're hanging around some hardcore Christians :P
brandonluco 2 weeks ago
Why can't everyone just get along and be Pangea again!?
imfeelingchristmasy 2 weeks ago
awkward moment at 3:53
MrThiskid28 3 weeks ago
The Catholic Church is full of old pedophiles and hypocrites still propagating the myths and superstitions of people who lived in the Bronze Age.
Our civilization begins when we no longer give credence to these lunatics. You do not get morality, equality, or democracy from the bible; you get genocide, racism, and tribalism.
northoforacle 3 weeks ago
THEY WERE BOTH RIGHT hehehe
hardxxcorey 3 weeks ago
The host is a moron, enough said.
urcritic 1 month ago
again Stalin is brought up to make atheism look bad....facepalm.
removing religion didnt make stalin stalin. so religion + stalin = moral society? LOL
nickallah 1 month ago
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"The philosopher has never killed any priests, whereas the priest has killed a great many philosophers."
Nietzschean1000 1 month ago
Is it me or is this Thom Hartmann rather immature?
arjegt1039 1 month ago 4
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Nice move for Hartman to cut Silverman off early so he could preach his point of view for the second half of the video without any opposition. What a pussy.
ZeerosFate 1 month ago
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ZeerosFate 1 month ago
"religion of atheism"??? funny how he seems to use the word "religion" to negate atheism. i dont believe in santa, i guess thats a religion too!!! what a pathetic and transparent tactic.
xamot27 1 month ago 14
Atheism is not a religion you silly goose. And Silverman is an idiot for not correcting him on that.
chadbrochill61 1 month ago
as soon as the reporter said "your religion of atheism" i knew he had no idea what he was talking about :p
Kulkieeeee 1 month ago
What the fuck? Why is he walking around? Do people often do this on american television?
7373walker 1 month ago
@7373walker WHAT SORCERY IS THIS!?
sausagecatjohnson 1 month ago
I agree with his last few statements.
mastercrowly 1 month ago
Why does he cut the interview short only to give himself free time at the end to define the issue? That is unfair to the invited guest. I have the impression he does this often.
Strelnieks66 1 month ago
Atheist=Human being, Religious person=degenerate untrustworthy subhuman
699backstab 1 month ago
@699backstab That's funny, here I was thinking it was the other way around.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut Well, if you are a religious subhuman, then "thinking" is something you know little about. XD Thats why you can be religious. Your inability to think for yourself. Thinking is what makes me a Human, makes me superior to you and places a barrier between me and being a degenerate child rapist oppressive religitard. Don't bust a hemisphere pretending you know what "thinking" is. Just go read your Bible of death and be happy Humans provide for you.
699backstab 1 month ago
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RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
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@699backstab I merely suggested the opposite of what you typed - as far as I can see, you can dish it, but you can't take it, huh?
How 'bout we make a truce? You stop trashing people with beliefs beyond your own "free-thinking" comprehension, and I'll stop retaliating towards you, the self-appointed "superior" party - deal?
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut You are right I cant take it. Too much integrity. I never want to be the one taking, just the one dishing. It is a battle of words and the subject is god. Ive chosen the natural state of homo sapein sapen and that is the secular atheistic point of view, you lean towards the superstitious tarot cards, Jesus concepts. We might throw in alchemy and astrology to make you see more easily how ridiculous your side really is. Your outlook is built upon a house of cards.
699backstab 1 month ago
@699backstab That's a no then. My apologies to you. I didn't realise I was talking an expert on the doings of the hereafter. Should I be assuming you have exclusive knowledge that the rest of humanity do not possess? Have you been deceased, and "there was nothing there", or found out without a shadow of a doubt that there is definitely no God?
Tell me about your oh-so impressive experiences outside of this realm of existance that have led you to your strong assertions.
Go on, dazzle me.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
Ill use another feature built into real Humans and one which you are devoid of, logic.It is the theist that makes the claim that there is an afterlife. The claimant saddles themselves with the burden of proof. So it is you the insane religitard that must put forth your scientific, peer reviewed, demonstrable, empirical evidence for me and other Humans to mull over. When we are satisfied we will rule on your assertion. Your claim is extraordinary and requires equivalent evidence
699backstab 1 month ago
@699backstab You want knowledge with a strong evidence base? Go look in a science book, there's plenty there.
Faith, on the other hand, does not require evidence. Like most athiests that want to aggressively prove their point, you are asking for that which doesn't exist - you either believe it or you don't.
You refer to yourself as a "free-thinker" - yet you cannot think outside the box you have created for yourself - you're trapped by your own assertion of "no God".
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@699backstab Whatever your story is, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if you're an athiest, a Buddhist, a Martian. Whatever, do what you want.
The only objection I have is when you come on here just to insult others, just for not believing as you do. Guess what - your reality is just for YOU. I couldn't care less whether you agree with what I believe in, but could you at least respect other people's opinions and beliefs? Especially considering this argument is largely theoretical.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
Its important to stamp out bad ideas. It is no longer acceptable to think what ever you want. Or to believe what ever you want. This is how bad ideas prosper and it is how religion has brought my species to the brink of extinction. Facts are facts. There aren't facts for me and facts for you. Is math one way for you and another for me? God isn't there. This fact is as solid as math because the amount of evidence available to prove He is, is zero. And that is good math XD
699backstab 1 month ago
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RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@699backstab "It is no longer acceptable to think what ever you want. Or to believe what ever you want." Says who? Who are you, the thought police?
I suggest if ANYONE should be keeping things to themselves, it should be you and that twisted Orwellian thought process you have going on.
I am a person of faith. There, I said it, and I won't be silent about it just because it offends athiests. And I can't be the only one who believes that.
Stamp us out like bad ideas? I don't think so.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut The war on religion is next. It going to be a massacre. Although religion is much more skilled at killing raping and murdering, it has had thousands of years of practice at exterminating Human life, when it comes to freedom, for which religion does not stand, Atheists will fight harder and win out. Atheists don't murder and they don't rape because they aren't hurting for Jesus. Atheists hurt for good causes. So watch out religitard. Join the Humans, fight for freedom
699backstab 1 month ago
@699backstab I am fighting for freedom - fighting for freedom against you. If you had your way, anyone that expressed anything not validated by scientists under experimental conditions would be executed.
No. Freedom is not being told what we can & cannot believe.
I am willing to admit that in the past, people have acted atrociously in the name of religion. But that is only half the story. Humans are more than just beasts, they have spirit and soul, & I will fight for my right to express it
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut Science is your only worthwhile endeavor. Everything else has no real value. I say, convert to Human Atheist or go see your god. 5 billion failed fallen ridiculous degenerates in a hole in the desert covered with bibles and korans and pig guts just to get the process moving along. In a million years the Atheists will have fuel for their cars
699backstab 1 month ago
@699backstab So you would be so vile against a fellow human being (yes human being, genetically no different), just because he believes in something beyond your own limited comprehension? That tells me all I need to know about you.
I recognise a lost cause when I see one. Unless YOU have something worthwhile to offer, this is my last reply. If I don't respond, it's because you've offered nothing but horse manure for an answer. Good luck with that.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut
"So you would be so vile against a fellow human being (yes human being, genetically no different), just because he believes in something beyond your own limited comprehension? That tells me all I need to know about you."
I agree with your reaction...However, you must understand this is how Christians and Muslims see atheists...Even my own mother who doesn't know I'm a non-believer, thinsk the WORST a person can be is an atheist. And this is just for the disbelief :P
TurboDally 1 month ago
@TurboDally I don't have a problem with athiests in general, I really don't. Its just this one in particular that got my attention for all the wrong reasons.
Beliefs are for an individual to decide. But there is a difference between free will and
1.insulting
2.declaring war on
3. burying in pig guts
someone just because they don't share the same opinion as you.
You're a non-believer, fine, I'm not one to judge you for it. I would only ask you for the same mutual respect, agreed?
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut If believer's would STOP legislating their morality on the rest of us, then we could reach an agreement.
atheistram 1 month ago
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@RigbyBullnut wrote: "If you had your way, anyone that expressed anything not validated by scientists under experimental conditions would be executed."
LOL... you gotta be kidding me?? If atheist's had their way people who didn't accept science would be ridiculed, not killed. The same cannot be said for theists who kill people who don't believe as they do.
atheistram 1 month ago
@699backstab
"The war on religion is next"
Dude, it's war OF religion- Christians and Muslims fighting each other and dragging everyone else with them.
"Atheists hurt for good causes"
Eh? Troll? The only thing atheists have in common is they don't believe in gods :O
TurboDally 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut wrote: "I am a person of faith. There, I said it, and I won't be silent about it just because it offends athiests."
Then why should atheist's be silent?
atheistram 1 month ago
@atheistram I have never asked an athiest to be silent, nor have I spoken out in support of legislating Christian morality. If that's all you have taken from my posts, go back and read them more carefully.
And by the way, despite what you might think, an individual's reality IS subjective - given that people perceive things differently, their resultant reality will also be unique.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut Yes, but objective reality is the same for everyone.
atheistram 1 month ago
@atheistram Agreed. So the possibility of God should be a reality for everyone. Believers embrace this existance, athiests reject it, agnostics aren't sure of it. But for any one of those groups to declare "MY truth is the REAL ABSOLUTE truth with NO margin of error" - they are deluding themselves. One thing agnostics have going for them is that they are smart enough to realise that they don't know everything.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut I am an agnostic atheist. I realize I don't know EVERYTHING but until sufficient evidence for God presents itself, I can't believe.
atheistram 1 month ago
@atheistram That is the beauty of faith. It is not for one to wait around for evidence.
Unfortunately there is the ugly side of faith, where people take it TOO far, and I can understand why people might turn away from religion because of that.
My most basic principle is: if you know love, you know God.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut So faith is the bastion of ignorance according to you??
I know love, and I DON'T know God.
atheistram 1 month ago
@atheistram You can take that as such, its a matter of personal perception.
And saying if you know love, you know God - its just a philosophy. It works the same the other way around, because God = love. That's just what I believe. Again, feel free to be argumentative and make snide remarks about the way I look at things, since your opinion is so much more valid and correct then mine.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@RigbyBullnut wrote: "Guess what - your reality is just for YOU."
Reality does not depend on belief
atheistram 1 month ago
Awe =/= mysticism.
cosmicforums 1 month ago
I think the mystic feeling would be emphasized when a person becomes an atheist. Since every reason and logic of atheists come from the EMPIRICAL NATURE. When a person understands the beauty of the earth, the stars, or the universe, that's when he or she fully appreciates the beauty of nature... this is what SAGAN'S telling, that peculiar connection between the natural world (THE REAL ONE) and the person itself. THAT'S THE BEST MIRACLE.
enigmaANGELO 2 months ago
@UceGotDaJuice what about all the atheist actors?
superstringer32 2 months ago
If you think atheism is a religion, you're fucking ignorant.
TellingItLikeItIsSJM 2 months ago
theres a president for american athiests and for american catholics. well Im president of american people who dont give a fuck
NinjatasticFilms 2 months ago
I've never met anyone who has gone apeshit because you said "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" (on the Internet or otherwise). Is this a manufactured thing or what?
DeadFishFactory 2 months ago
@UceGotDaJuice All of them? All atheists are boring?
TampaRed 2 months ago
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TheUberAtheist 2 months ago
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Believers? Belief requires a faith. A lack of belief is not a faith. Otherwise, we would all have inifinite faith, for there is an infinite number of things not to believe.
vegapoky 2 months ago
What an idiot. First of all, atheism is NOT a religion. Secondly, this nonsense about people like Pol Pot and other dictators doing what they did because of removal of religion is wrong. They became the state religion. Pol Pot, Stalin and Kim Jong Il became the gods of their countries. This has been discussed, over and over. The interviewer needs to do more research.
TheCurmudgen 2 months ago
@TheCurmudgen Now his name is Kim Jong Dead ^^
What all of those dictators (you forgot Adolf Hitler) did was to replace the religious ideas with their own ideas. "If the people are gullible enough to eat that religious crap, they goin' to eat my facist-crap as well!".
It's all about gullibility wether a god is included or not.
That's why critcal thinkers are persecuted in all non-democratic, non-free societies.
M0rdH0rst 2 months ago
@TheCurmudgen Actually, Kim Il-sung became the god of North Korea. His son, Jong-il, was not considered nearly as highly as his father, and his official title reflected such. Just the same, the personality cult definitely extended into his dictatorship, and now it extends into Jong-un's dictatorship.
TampaRed 2 months ago
Lulz
TheGeneralBurn 2 months ago
ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION...Why do people keep trying to say that? The general public has NO IDEA what atheism really is. They just paint red horns on it and call it a day.
chuckwagon1645 2 months ago 2
2:46 xD he couldn't keep a straight face
Janovjev 2 months ago
I love being an atheist! :)
MissMaddyPatty524 2 months ago
@SupremeARA915 Alright asshole, my topic wasn't about the holidays. It was about the definition of atheism and how it gets distorted.
Now then, on the topic of conversion, you should care because you're supposed to spread the word of god to everyone. After all, that's what christianity says to do. If you don't care, then you're not really a Christian. You're just some punk who likes the comforting fables religion offers but won't do everything mandated by your religion.
Troll elsewhere.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti There's probably a reason why SupremeARA915 doesn't try to convert you - you have no interest in what he/she, or any other "religious nut" has to tell you, coz you ain't listening to a word of it (lost cause).
As a Christian, I don't try to convert people as I also believe in a person's right to believe in what they want. It would be like a muslim trying to convert me - I wouldn't want to hear it, because it contradicts the faith I already have.
Make your own choices, its not up to us.
RigbyBullnut 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut Then he's not a Christian and neither are you. When you think people should decide their faith for themselves, you're not being Christian; you're being rational. You're leaving it up to the person to decide, not trying to convince them of something like religious dogma does to many people from the day we are born. Kids at Jesus camp aren't being allowed to make their own choices because this is how Christianity works.
You sir, are a rational person and I appreciate that.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti I believe in Jesus as the Saviour of the world. In my humble opinion, that would make me a Christian. But that's just me. I say Christian and not a bible-basher, they can't look up from their books long enough to notice life happening (I cope it from them too for not being extreme enough). You'd probably like nothing better than to distance me from them (I don't blame you, I'm a pretty likeable guy. :P) but I can't deny what my heart tells me. And thank you for seeing the difference.
RigbyBullnut 2 months ago
I remember this, this is sad. I can't imagine waking up every morning to unravel the beliefs of people worldwide. if i didn't agree i would just get over myself....
snakedemon11 2 months ago
I am agonosic but i side with religious peopole i hate atheist and think they should die
ubermisogynist 2 months ago
@ubermisogynist
Umad?
cjc651 2 months ago
@ubermisogynist you're obviously a very stupid person lol.
shadowblade145 2 months ago
Religions, flawed as they might be, still have some values at their core. The kind of Militant Atheism this Silverman guy is promoting has nothing in its core - Reason can mean a whole lot of different things, not all good. Reason in Nazi Germany or Communist Russia meant that getting rid of weak/undesirable people was reasonable because they drag down the rest of society and drive away resources from the fittest.
xpto228 2 months ago
whats this news station? i like them :)
xXDISASTERPIECE934Xx 2 months ago
@xXDISASTERPIECE934Xx agree. i just found out about thom hartmann tonight.
AlwaysSunni 2 months ago
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Carl Sagan actually labeled himself an agnostic. Technically I think that term was incorrect for someone who does not hold a belief in a god but thats what he labeled himself.
and why did this guy call atheism a religion? O_o
and what is all this talk of freakin "mystics" at the end? o_O
who the hell is this guy?
stiimuli 2 months ago
Interesting, the president of American Atheists Incorporated looks like Jesus.
redneckmarine87 2 months ago 3
FUCK FUCK ATHEIST SON OF DEVILS!!!!!!!!
MattiasAyd 2 months ago
@MattiasAyd You must be a Christian. There are no devils.
matthewtaylorbrown 2 months ago
@MattiasAyd
Go be angry asshole somewhere else please.
s0nic777 2 months ago
Oh religion, WHY YOU SO SILLY!
MegaFreeman09 2 months ago 2
@LeftHandCookie No, we KNOW there is no god. Just as we KNOW dragons and Santa don't exist. The burden of proof doesn't sit on those who deny the crazy claims of a higher power, it sits on those making the claims. Therefore, we cannot BELIVE there is no god because we never said there was a god to begin with.
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@jugarnaut40 actually, you don't KNOW anything doesn't exist. you believe it. have you studied and examined the whole of the universe and existence? no you haven't.
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 This is the dumbest argument. I say I know there is no god. If you use your logic, then you should at the very least be polytheistic and worship every god of every religion. You should also be preparing for a vampire attack because after all, you don't know for sure that vampires don't really exist. Come on, can't you see how dumb that sounds?
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@jugarnaut40 how is that a dumb argument? I used YOUR logic! you are arguing that YOUR OWN logic is dumb. My logic is simply, I presuppose that God exists, you don't. I have a Christian world view, you dont. My worldview is more consistent than yours, and you borrow from mine to make sense of yours. example would be that you cannot give me a rational reason why something like, rape for example, is wrong. objectively, morally wrong.
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 How is that my logic? When did I once say that you can't know something doesn't exist?
As for rape, well it's pretty simple. Neither of us want to be raped. So we can agree not to rape each other. Morals come from humans. Not from god. They aren't really there, we just super impose a list of circumstances that we can all find objectionable. This is how any descent society operates. And believe you me, your view hasn't a speck on consistency in it.
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@jugarnaut40 neither of us want to be raped, but what about the guy who thinks it is okay to rape someone whether they like it or not? WHY is he wrong? you have no rational basis, because if you are consistent, you would say that he ISN'T wrong, that you simply don't agree with him!
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 I'm getting that feeling like I'm talking to a wall. I tried to make it clear that the label of right and wrong are completely arbitrary. Humans decide what's right and what's wrong. So yes, the guy who thinks it's cool to rape anyone he wants technically isn't wrong. But I, and the vast majority of humanity, don't agree with him. Now the reason we deem it morally wrong is because he's hurting others against their own will. All these rules of society and morality come from humans!
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@jugarnaut40 So all you can tell a rape victim, ultimately is that you and most people don't agree with it, but it ISN'T wrong. What happened to her/him, really isn't wrong, it is just something that we don't like. that is ALL you can offer them.
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 Not some fucked up, imaginary friend who you seem to have no problem believing in or worshiping. What about the crusades? Can you explain that? Why did your god feel it necessary to slaughter men women and children who didn't believe in your specific religion? Now I'm pretty sure you can't disagree with him because after all, that's considered a sin. And you most likely won't say he's wrong for commanding it because once again, that's a major sin. So please, explain yourself.
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@jugarnaut40 yeah, so the crusades happened. a defensive action was initiated by Rome against the attacking muslim invaders. and yes atrocities and bad things happened and were committe by both sides. how is that an argument? evil men did evil things. just because someone bombs an abortion clinic in the name of Jesus doesn't mean he is speaking for Jesus. again...SHOW me where the Bible commands Christians to kill or do those things...still waiting
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 Did you not read the rest of the comment? Or maybe you haven't read the old testament. He commands that gays be hung, that disobedient children be stoned, that those who work on the sabbath be put to death. What about the story where Abraham is commanded to kill his own son? There are so many situations in which the penalty is death or death is commanded that for you to even ask for one reference is pretty pathetic seeing as how you claim to be a bible following christian.
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@Follower172 bible(dot) cc/exodus/35-2. htm
That's one example.
Anyone who'll tell you the bible doesn't say to kill people has never read the bible. They think the bible is nothing but love and fairy tales and promise of eternal heaven. Morons, the whole lot of them.
Perhaps you should read the bible yourself.
Another favorite technique of believers is when they say they only accept the new testament. Well, I reject 1 more testament than you do. Then, how different are we really?
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti WHERE does the BIBLE TELL CHRISTIANS.. Christians... to kill people. That was my question. still waiting, and you still haven't shown.
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 Are you blind or just dense? evilbible(dot)com /Murder(dot)htm
You're under the impression that just because you're Christians you're exempt from the bible's commands. Wrong. When the bible commands it, it must be carried out for it is the word of God. To think he must specify who should carry out the order is absurd and a blatant attempt at fruitlessly exonerating yourself from the blood on your God's hands.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti so you are equating God carrying out judgement in the Old testament against people who tried to whipe out Israel, and against people who are justly condemned as sinners with God randomly telling all believers to kill people? my point? you need to consider context. the OT was s theocracy, you won't even allow for context, because as soon as God condems someone, you only see him killing, and nothing else. and since all you can say is you don't like it...what is your argument?
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 Please do me a favor and properly punctuate your thoughts so I can understand what you're saying. In what context is it ok for capital punishment to be executed for merely working on the sabbath, or for the mere accusation of being a witch, or for being a homosexual. Tell me in what context is that ok.
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 Also, your response to rape not being an absolute moral transgression is nothing more than an appeal to emotion.
Politician use it all the time. "No Child Left Behind Act" -If it helps just ONE child, then this program is a success. Fuck anyone who believes that.
Morality is determined by the masses because they survive and make the best rules. Not some book written by some random people using it to control people.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti again...what is your evidence that morality is determined by the masses? so you are saying that it is agreed on by popular vote? you are full of it, you don't live that way. Jeeze, a guy goes home for Christmas break, and celebrates and people think he "gives up" on an argument. If I press you on this, you will say RAPE IS wrong, not that you think it is bad, or that you don't like it. You live inconsistently with what you say. why should I take you seriously?
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 You're under the impression here that the popular vote is always stagnant. The popular vote until recently was that homosexuality is an abomination. (This of course was due to the bible's influence). Now, the opinion of the masses is changing.
A man of faith asking for evidence? Sad to say, I have not researched this, nor have I looked at other researchers' works on the matter, but it is something I have hypothesized for a long time now.
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 LOL, I like your use of the rape example. Rape is wrong because it is forcing someone to submit to an act against their will. It is a violation of someone's rights. The funny thing is, killing someone for being gay is just as much of a violation of someone's rights as is rape. The same can be said for killing someone for working on the sabbath. It's just plain wrong but the bible tells us it is right.
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 In fact, the bible tells that if your daughter is raped, the man who carried out the act must pay for her and he is to wed her. But of course, there has to be some sort of context that makes this ok right? NO, there ISN'T.
I think these acts are wrong because they are direct violations of someone else's rights. Rights which societies have agreed on over thousands of years because this is how we survive and live longer. You believe they are wrong because some book tells you so.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti IT doesn't say that. The Hebrew word isn't raped, it is simply if a man has sex with a woman out of wedlock! learn your hebrew before going there. even in consensual sex, where the woman wants sex, in hebrew culture (hence the "context") if a man sleeps with a woman, even if she wants it, he is acting outside God's law, he is now responsible for her wellbeing. so you are right, context doesn't make something right or wrong, but it does allow you to actually understand what was said!!
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 " If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." Deuteronomy 22:28-29
>>It says rape does it not?
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 You are stagnant. You are unwilling to change because you have accepted God as the highest authority. His word will always be your law. Tell me then, if God's word is your law, why do you follow municipal laws, or victimless federal laws or any other law not established by God himself? Why do you not own slaves? God permits it.
Oh wait, is it because you live inconsistently with what you say? You dare make that claim of me when you clearly live the lie?
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti God established the governments we have now, and so long as the laws we have don't violate his law, I am doing just fine. municipal laws don't violate his law. And the Bible did not condemn nor did it command or condone slavery. IT was a fact that slavery existsed, and he told slaves to serve as you would serve Christ, and told owners to love and to care for their slaves. what is your argument exactly? SHow me how I live a lie. show me where I am inconsistent...
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 I think acoti is talking about old testament laws, the ones that deal out death sentences to homosexuals, people who work over the Sabbath, blasphemers, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he is pointing out that you don't uphold those laws as decreed by God Himself, then how can you call yourself Christian?
I know the answer, but I"ll let you field this one ....
RigbyBullnut 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut That's basically what I'm getting at.
I'm curious to see if the new testament plays a large role in this "answer".
acoti 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut i'll address both. the hebrew words (the OT was written in hebrew) DO NOT mean rape, the NIV translaters got it wrong...hence the reason no other translation agrees with them. second, I addressed the OT laws. they were given to the children of israel, not all people. The Jews were given the laws and ordinences, and they were based on sin or not sin. If it is a sin that a person lies with another man, then it is punishable by death...but you both ignore the fact that Christ...
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 Christ fulfilled the OT law entirely, the law was meant to show us that we needed a savior, since no one can actually keep the law. The NT (the new covenant ) is based on grace and imputed righteousness and is for all people (jew/gentile alike) not just for the jews. you are picking and choosing, I am using the entire council of scripture.
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 Admittedly, I knew little of the NT and its connection to the OT. I will refrain from commenting on the NT until I have read more on it.
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 You live inconsistently because you do not kill people who work on Sunday, or people who are gay, or people who have struck their parents, or so many other people for so many other reasons. This is the word of God. Federal law prohibits murder. Federal law violates God's law. You don't follow God's law. You follow Federal law which is dictated by humanity. You live inconsistently.
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 In a nutshell, my point is that you should learn to judge and think for yourself. Don't take anything as truth just because you were raised since childhood to believe in it.
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 So have you decided to give up?
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@jugarnaut40 I go home for Christmas break and enjoy family time and don't respond for a few days and they think I give up. cheeky. And since I couldn't respond to the other one...I asked for Acoti to show me the validity of reason without actually using reason. he seems to think I am the only one using circular reasoning. we all presuppose reason and logic, but we have never proven them. so I will stop using circular reasoning when you show me reasons validity without using reason itself
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 I'll do what I can to validate reason, because you seem to honestly believe this is a large obstacle against my argument.
You get in a car and start it up. You did that because from past experience, the car has started when you turned the key. You made a reasonable assumption.
If a grenade lands right next to your feet while you're in a battlefield, through past experience and a desire to survive and carry out your mission, you'll reasonably assume it'll blow and duck for cover
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti I did NOT say to validate reason and leave it at that. I said, validate reason WITHOUT actually USING reason to validate reason. The point is, you called my argument circular, for assuming what I have yet to prove (God) you do the EXACT same thing. You use reason to "prove" evolution (for example) becaue science is based on logic and reason, but you can't help but use logic and reason in validating logic and reason. my point was, I'll stop being circular in argument when you do
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 Well, you got me. I can't prove reason's validity without using reason. There's not much else I can say about that expect that I hope you don't have too much trouble living your entire life based solely on faith. Since reason isn't valid and whatnot.
But I do hope you realize that you're comparing apples to oranges here so your inquiry about reason's validity is itself invalid.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti You are guilty of the same thing!!!! your life is also entirely based on faith if you presuppose something to be true without proving it!!! I didn't say reason is NOT valid!!! think for yourself for a minute. I never said reason is not valid. I said you (personally) are circular because you accept reason but cannot prove it (unless using reason to do so). I accept reason as valid, and I have a rational basis for it and logic, you do not. you can't account for either, you just use them
Follower172 2 months ago
@Follower172 See, you're kinda wrong about that. Your logic is based on assuming things to be true without proving them whereas mine is based on assuming things to be untrue unless proven to be true. I don't have to prove reason's validity without using reason because we all know that reason works.
I don't understand how you could think that using reason is circular. We know it works, we see that it works. Validating it without reason just seems purely nonsensical.
acoti 2 months ago
How is this comparable to saying "God is validated through the Bible"? (Assuming of course that this is what you intend)
acoti 2 months ago
@Follower172 Reason is what allows for our survival and continuation of our species.
To take everything on faith is to put your life in grave danger at every turn of a corner.
I don't know if you'll accept my conclusion on reason, but if you're so opposed, you're more than welcome to live your life on faith and faith alone. And don't confuse reason with faith. Assuming food will give your energy is based on reason, not faith so make sure to differentiate between the two.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti With all due respect, life is an uncertain thing - nothing is absolutely guaranteed. So some people (like Follower172, even me) develop faith - faith that God will take care of us, faith that He knows what He is doing, faith that isn't backed up with watertight evidence. Of course, we could resort to saying, "life is shit, no-one is there", but I would rather be a bit more philosophical than that. Call it a fairytale if you must, from previous posts it is clear you've missed the point.
RigbyBullnut 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut I get the feeling that you're implying Atheists can't appreciate life. Should I be correct in feeling that, then you are wholly mistaken.
As for your opener, I understand that very well. Many people use religion and the promise of eternal happiness as a crutch so they could move forward. This, as innocent as it may seem, is dangerous as demonstrated by radical islamists. This is why separation of church and state is crucial.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti I'm not at all suggesting that athiests cannot appreciate life - when life is all you believe in (i.e. no afterlife etc) and all that exists to you, I'm sure you're going to appreciate the life that has been given to you all the more, considering that's once it's done, there is nothing afterwards.
I too appreciate life, but from a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I am merely stating that your philosophy is not for me, and that should be fine for you, right?
RigbyBullnut 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut That is more than ok with me. I've no problem with others believing in god, but this whole debate started with how Follower172 defined atheism. I weighed in and it went from there. This has been a level headed discussion and I'm enjoying it. I don't expect him to convert, so everything here has been for discussion/debate. I don't intend to leave it at, "You have different views from me so let's leave it there" I learn nothing that way. I want to see where he's coming from.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti As for the mention of radical islamists, I disgree with ANY fundamentalist from ANY religion, be it a muslim plunging a plane into a building or a catholic fundamentalist blowing up an abortion clinics and shooting doctors who practice as such.
Its fundamentalists that screw things up for everyone, because they can't see past their own beliefs to respect other people, and end up killing "in the name of God". As a peaceful individual I refuse to cause harm. I'm a lover not a fighter.
RigbyBullnut 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut Indeed, radical atheists smear the image of atheism as do any radicals of any group.
acoti 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut If religion is what gets you going every day and keeps you motivated and not thinking about death or what's out there, I can accept that and that's fine. Use it to keep yourself up. But DO NOT expect everyone to believe what you believe and DO NOT expect laws to be dictated by he whom you hold as your lord. Maybe it's just me but I think that's sufficient for both parties.
You may say "life's shit, no one's there" I say "It's amazing I got here; better do what I can while I can"
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti Religion is not what gets me going every day to keep me motivated. LIFE is what keeps me going. I just happen to give thanks to something that is superior than me. I want the freedom to express that, just like you have to freedom to express whatever it is you believe. No, I don't expect everyone to believe as I do, its called free will, to do what we want with it. And I don't have a problem with your attitude towards life, in fact its a good philosophy to have.
RigbyBullnut 2 months ago
@RigbyBullnut My apologies. I had hoped it would show that I was directing that to the general populace but I was wrong. I meant not to direct that towards you.
Your belief on our origins and deities differs greatly from mine but you sound like you live a moral life. It is something I most appreciate in people and it is they whom make my life bearable.
acoti 2 months ago
@acoti I can certainly understand why you would react to me the way you did when I said I was Christian. The people you associate with that label are the same people that give me crap about being too liberal.
"Oh you're not a real Christian because blah blah blah"
You and I probably share a similar opinion of those biblebashing, brainwashed individuals. Let me assure you, I'm not like that.
Anyone capable of love is a good person in my book, their choice of faith is just another detail.
RigbyBullnut 1 month ago
@Follower172 So have you decided to give up?
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Follower172 So have you decided to give up?
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@Follower172 Because if you get your morals from god, then you should stone to death your disobedient child. You should be donation everything you own to the poor. You should be hanging gays and murdering those who disagree with you. Because that's what your fucked book of fairy tales tells you to do. But I'm pretty fucking sure your world view, as obscure is it may be, looks nothing like that. So go ahead, do your best to find my some consistency.
jugarnaut40 2 months ago
@jugarnaut40 It would be nice if you would actually read the old and new testament as one book, and be consistent in your argument. Where, for example, are Christians told to hang gays and murder those who disagree? Show me where the Bible says that, I will de-convert. Confusing old testament theocracy (that was only for the children of israel - the Jews) and the new testament covenant of grace is kind of silly. while you rant and rail, why not show some examples. argue consistently
Follower172 2 months ago
Comment removed
Appleholic1 2 months ago
Silverman is a hottie.
GalacticChimp 2 months ago 11
@GalacticChimp Hell yea!!!
sry for the hell part
FrostBeaver 2 months ago
Those wars were not fought based solely to end religion.
they were fought on an ideal where the ends justified the means and having 'faith' in said ideal in some case replaces religion.
The atheists we see today do not all fight religion, they fight faith.
bassmanco 2 months ago
If atheism is a religion, bald is a hair color
AD6043 2 months ago 36
@AD6043 and OFF is a t.v. channel
M3TR01DFANBOY 2 months ago
@AD6043 and off is a tv channel :) merry christmas, happy hanukah, happy kwanza, happy Arab spring (not sure what it is), and happy new year! im an atheist, and i sponsor this message
LBPThe2nd 2 months ago
Atheism is a religion?
Yeah, I'm a dogwalkerist, dogwalkerism, dogwlakerismist. Or something.
I believe in dog
hairyreasoner 2 months ago
Hey, retard on RT...
Do people who aren't religious and don't believe in god exist?
If yes, what are they called?
xMKIVxVR6x 2 months ago
damn. thom hartmann sucks. how'd he get on RT?
toolegit2quittttt 3 months ago
This host is an idiot about this subject.
BrooklynRagtag 3 months ago 3
@lefthandcookie I also believe in caring for others that doesnt make it a religion.
DareKabe 3 months ago
hahahaha @ the awkward laugh at 3:55
bentrend 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Atheism is a religion, as you BELIEVE that there is no God.
LeftHandCookie 3 months ago
Waits until the guy gets off, then does all this editorializing. Mighta forgiven it if his points weren't completely inane. Thumbs down.
jbuatti 3 months ago 2
My position is that religious beliefs are harmful because of the relationship with how people determine truth and morality. If someone's view of reality is not as accurate as it could be than they will make less moral decisions simply because in order to decide what will do the most good someone needs to analyze reality. He admits that positive feelings can come out of both but that isn't what people say is wrong with religion(at least not me) its how its based on faith and appeals to authority.
NicklausBennett 3 months ago
How is shoving your religion down everyone elses throat the moral high ground?
StubornLady 3 months ago 4
American Atheists stated main goal is for the civil rights of Atheists with a secondary goal of seperation. There are other orgs that have the main goal of seperation. FFRF and Americans United. Silverman should have pointed that out to the host who wanted to know why not focus on seperation.
y0nd3r 3 months ago
What a stupid wanker this host was. Damn. Why do these fuckers get a change to spread their propaganda on television?
bary1234 3 months ago
Such a tired argument against atheism... Really? Stalin, Mao, Paul Pot atheist regimes? Let's see; One central father figure who is all knowing and infallible. One authority that no ordinary man can dispute and must obey without question or be punished. Sounds familiar?
ehd543 3 months ago
This host is WAAAY too animated for Russia Today.
ajnode 4 months ago
can an atheist tell me where we came from?
sharpshooter617 4 months ago
@sharpshooter617 You and I came from our respective parents. I am an atheist.
PsychoticSnake 4 months ago
@sharpshooter617 At least we don't invent a magic man in the sky to fill in the gaps.
thebroodhn 4 months ago
@sharpshooter617 We come from our mothers' womb. Didn't they teach you this in bible class? Oh right, sex is a sin.....
rokanlover13 4 months ago