Getting Normal

[stephipaul]

i just commented on how stupid this one guy was talking out his ass on ppl like u. THIS IS REAL. u ve been there, done that and bought the t-shirt. i admire u for chosing life. may God be with u

[AtheistPharmacist]

Absolutely FANTASTIC video- ive been on MMT for 6 years- thankyou for a lucid presententation of the many, many people helped by MMT. You people are exactly like me- this is such a great mini-documentary!!! Awesome!!!

[hwydave]

@AtheistPharmacist ,

Thanks a lot for your comments and I'm really glad you like the video. It's also great to hear from other people who are happy and doing well on MMT - I hope that stories like yours help to improve methadone's reputation in the drug treatment world.

[hwydave]

@AtheistPharmacist ,

Thanks a lot for your comments and I'm really glad you like the video. It's also great to hear from other people who are happy and doing well on MMT - I hope that stories like yours help to improve methadone's reputation in the drug treatment world.

[MyNikkiT]

It's great seeing someone with POSITIVE information on the Methadone Maintence Program. My husband and I have been on the program here in New Brunswick, Canada for almost 2 years. It's given us our lives back. We LIVE life now, instead of existing. Keep it up!!

[zuspan69]

Im glad it is working for you ive been on it. Suboxone is alot better if you find a good doctor that isnt rapping there pacnts for money.

[MegaRene2]

yeah but methadon abstinence is one month and longer,i get off in prison it takes 4 mounth to be a person like i was before i use opiats mtd heroin eccc.

[andrewtp21]

Monthlies?!! woah man, no wonder you think methadone rocks! I even have to go in on christmas day!! And the doctors blame the system on our affiliation with America and the "War on Drugs"!

[hwydave]

No doubt about it - the less a clinic imposes on their patient's lives, the better. By refusing patients takehomes and using other forms of control like dose caps, callbacks, ect. the clinics just push people who would benefit out of treatment and further stigmatize the medication. As good as MMT has been for me, I'd have a whole different take if I had to go every day for the last 5 years.

[billyklez]

You must be living in Canada. On behalf of myself and all of my friends in U.S. harm reduction, I apologize for the hypocrisy, arrogance, and brutality of our country. We sincerely hope that you do not hold our leaders' decisions against us, the resisting individuals.

[andrewtp21]

Western Australia.. 33 years .. daily ...

[billyklez]

ah, again ... sorry for exporting our abusive policies. it appears to be one of our specialties. i can't imagine daily pickups ... i'm a suboxone patient ... monthly prescription from the pharmacy ... but for the uninsured, it's not an option .... very expensive.

[andrewtp21]

The ONLY difference is that you are getting a LEGAL drug! In fact you are now way more physically addicted than you were on heroin! Heroin withdrawal may be more intense but it is over within a week or two. Methadone withdrawal won't even peak till about the 3rd week of abstinence! overall you will suffer intense withdrawals with NO sleep for around 7 weeks! And then it may be 18 months or more before you feel normal, even with lots of excercise and proper diet etc.

[hwydave]

Hi Andrew + thanks for your comments- First off, I guess I'd say that that the legality of Methadone is a huge aspect of it's ability to allow patients to live a stable life. However, you seem to be confusing dependence with addiction - addiction involves significant disorder and negative circumstances, not simply tolerance /wd that develops when anyone takes opiates. You also seem to be assuming that MMT is simply a route to abstinance - many view it as a maintnce med like Insulin 4 diabetic.

[hwydave]

I also should point out, that beyond the legality - other differences include not ever being junksick, having a bank account, job, house, life, ect. Not waiting all day on a dealer or risking life, limb, and jail in the neighborhood. Not OD'ing, getting HIV/AIDS/Hep C. No track marks, abcesses, cotton fever. Having food in the fridge, not commiting crimes everyday, having friends/ family/ free time. ability to travel, hold a job, go to school. Those are enough differences to convince me.

[andrewtp21]

Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly, but wouldn't it be better if we got legal heroin as an option aswell? instead of just really long half-life meds like mehadone and buprenorphine that take forever to get off!?

[hwydave]

Yep, I do agree that legal heroin should be an option and I'm pretty much against prohibition in general. I'm not sure if I'd use it as a maintenence med personally (though I'd probably do it recreationally here and there), just cause I think the shorter half-life would be less convienent, but I absolutely think it should be available for anyone who wants it.

[JennyHighley]

@hwydave couldn't agree more! well said. if i was going to make a list, i would have listed all those things too. when you think about it - it's quite amazing what MMT makes possible.

[andrewtp21]

I see quite a lot of take-home doses in your fridge! Here in Western Australia I have had no take home doses except for public holidays for several years now! Even though I've been unable to free myself of Subutex or Methadone maintanence for 33 years!!! I became suicidal when they made me go back on methadone after being on subutex for 6 years. It happened because I was trying to save enough sub to go on holiday by sneaking some out i.e., diverting! the only way to get doses while camping!!!

[hwydave]

Yeah - both my wife and myself get monthlies, which obviously makes the system alot easier to deal with. We have problems with clinics here too, but luckily in Chicago, they're pretty cool. I have no doubt that with appropriate reforms to the clinic system - the medication can accomplish even more than it already is doing. Good luck to you.

[ruthannalston]

MMT saved my life when eveything else I tried did not work. I am a MMT pt and have been for 9 yrs. YES, 9 yrs. I would love to be able to live a life without MMT, but if I have to, I will stay on it for the rest of my life. There is a big difference between dependence and addiction. I would prefer dependence over addiction any day.

Some people can do it with NA or cold turkey or other methods, but I COULD NOT.

Don't bad mouth those of us who have chosen this way to stay clean.

[nathannathan124]

The girl talks about being sick when she was on dope and trying to find it everyday. but what would happen if she was cut off of the methadone? It's like a double edge sword. U can tell these people are doing better but they are still addicted. What if her methodone wasn't there the 1st thing in the morning. I just feel these good people are kidding theirselves. I am 2 years clean next month.

[hwydave]

Hi Nathan. I think you might be confusing dependent with addicted: sure she's dependent on methadone and without it she'd be sick, however she hasn't been sick in 5 years because she's on a legal, stable perscription medication. The diagnostic definition for addiction involves continued use of a substance despite continued negative consequences, whereas lots of people are dependent on opiates without being addicted to them, ie. Cancer patients, people with back pain, ect.

Thanks,

David

[hwydave]

By the way, I'd also mention that "clean" is highly subjective term that differs widely from culture to culture and person to person. However it usually involves a particular belief system involving abstiance-only solutions to addiction which the girl in the film generally does not support. Thanks for the comment.

-David

[montyone]

I never understand why they dont just prescribe

heroin/opiates (synthetic dilaudid like stuff obv.).

Whats the point..Methadon is addictive as well..and the

worst part about addiction is gettin ur stuff/ organizing

and qualityissues anyway - all that stress and agony of waiting would be resolved ( 2 some extend with Methadon as well?!)

They seem 2 not grant the rush 2 those oh so irresponsible, lazy "Junkies", me thinks sometimes.

[billyklez]

hey, thanks for the great comments. one thing, though, there's a big difference between addiction and dependence. most people who take methadone the way it's supposed to be taken (same dose consumed same time each day) enjoy very stable lives, good relationships, etc. even though they are chemically dependent. addiction occurs when your life is no longer manageable. so it's not what you do to the drug, it's what the drug does to you. does taking it make your life more or less manageable?

[hwydave]

Thanks for the comments. I agree with what Billyklez said, but I would also support the heroin-based maintenance programs (or the legalization of dope). I think you've got a point that many of our drug laws have a real problem with obtaining pleasure from a substance deemed a "drug" hence mainstream drug policy won't let you get that rush.

-David

[angeloamericano]

Methadone can be a valuable tool in recovery or a holding pattern or a dead end. You sound like you are doing methadone right. Check out my new video here on you tube "getting off methadone" all the best

[hwydave]

Thanks for your comments Angelo, and I did watch your video - good job. While I don't see everything entirely the same way in terms of doses and candidates for MMT, and think even those who may not be "abstinant" are still reducing the harm they'd encounter without MMT - I certainly agree that the clinic system is a huge problem. I'd like to see Methadone's distribution system changed so people don't have as many issues leading them to have to taper.

-David

[jrsweeney21]

Your videos are great! they remind me of how my life was almost a year ago. 8 more days will make me 1 year sober from my IV opiate use. Methadone has saved my life. Very Inspiring. Keep up the good work.

[billyklez]

Thanks for the kind, encouraging words. And congratulations on your upcoming 1 year anniversary. That's really fantastic ... stay in touch and stay tuned ... more films to come .......... -Greg Scott

[hwydave]

Thanks and congratulations on a year - I've been on MMT a little over four, and it still amazes me how different my life used to be.

-David

[billyklez]

You're right, "it is different for everyone." I wish everyone would recognize this, understand this. IT's much like dieting or learning something new, or having sex ... everyone does it the same way, but everyone's trying the same thing. If you need methadone out of your life, so be it. It's your need, you own it. So who's to say it's the wrong need, or a wrong-headed want? Finding and knowing peace ... that's a question very different from the one of dependence. It's a rare achievement.

[psuedosurfer]

Some valid points as I recall the desperation I felt however it is different for everyone for myself and many others it is still not enough, despite total freedom from ILLICIT addiction to the preferable dependence as well as Chrohns disease with knackered arthritic joints I WILL Emancipate myself after 12 years of addiction! 30ml to zero I live on the east coast of england in Hull so a short ferry ride to Holland +4 days of treatment I"ll be home for the weekend free & KNOW PEACE

[psuedosurfer]

the next step when your ready, IBOGAINE

QUID PRO QUO

[hwydave]

I have heard some interesting things about Ibogane (and Howard Lostof seems like a decent guy) but I don't think of Methadone as part of any process towards some further goal, yet to be achieved. Being on MMT allows me to live a happy, productive life without the hardships of addiction - that's what I wanted from Methadone, and it more than delivered.

-David

[randy95023]

Thanks so much for posting this. I "get" it..

Methadone is a life-saver and it's a shame so many people misunderstand it. Every community should have easy access to Methadone.

[billyklez]

Thanks for your comment. Very well said.  I wish more people were as enlightened and articulate on the issue of methadone. I want to encourage you to bravely share your views with others in your community, your social group, your corner of the world. --Greg Scott

[myyarmyarm]

what a beautiful Intelligent woman I love ur Channel so raw and real but this girl could be anyone I hope she's clean and healthy thanyou for ur videos my only problem with them id there not enougf keep em comming

[hwydave]

Thanks for the comment, and Jo will be glad to hear to she looks good on film (we're married). She's definately doing great - been on maintenance for close to four years - and we're both havin a blast here in Chicago.

-David

[myyarmyarm]

Oh.....The reason she's so beautiful(*to me at least)is how Honest and open she's being "We had pancakes and Bacon this Morning they were delicious" she so open and at ease it's like she's talking to her best friend. I love ur films cracked quaters Amazing the brick yard broke my heart Keep em comming I'm very happy she's healthy and clean it would be a Horrible waste of such an intelligent women

[hwydave]

Thanks, Cracked Quarters and the Brickyard were actually filmed by friend and prof Greg Scott, who's listed here as Billyklez. I coulden't figure out how to upload my film so he posted it with his stuff.

[chrissys31]

once a mth she says she goes and picks up her meds where in the hell is she at? Im in michigan and I have to go 3 times a wk clean and then when your clean for 2 yrs you can come 1 time a wk. shit I would love to be at her clinic and with gas prices I feel like im using again damn near.

[billyklez]

She's enrolled in a clinic in Chicago ... it's one of the better ones, according to most accounts I've heard. Your clinic has an unusually strict, almost debilitating policy. A 2-year probationary period seems like it's almost designed to weed people out by setting up a good many to fail. Hang in there ... let me know if ever I can do anything to help with your situation.

[chrissys31]

omg that makes so much sense what you said. Now who are the ones that makes the rules for clinics is it the owners of it or the different states? I might even have to pawn my video camera for gas to get to the clinic so...Im hustling for gas now not dope!!

[hwydave]

Unfortunately, regulations exist at the Federal, State, and individual clinic level, so treatment is all across the board, often with clinics (or states) enacting rules that fly in the face of medical guidelines as well as common sense. Finding a good clinic makes a huge difference in one's life though - I only go to my clinic once a month too, and my clinic is generally cool. Some of these rules prevent people from re-entering the mainstream world.

-David

[nathannathan124]

Great answer, I understand, to be honest, I kinda always felt that people on methadone were just scared to go through full-blown withdraws. I guess I was bitter to hear people say they have been clean for 1 year and take methadone everyday. In my mind I thought if I had to quit the hard way everyone should, plus I went through hell and back and didn't want to hear their crap. Thank you, I will be in Chicago next week maybe we can have some coffee.

Nat

[hwydave]

It's not so much being scared of full-blown withdrawl (although it is torture), but more that Opiate addiction is a chronic, relapsing disease/condition - so, for someone who is addicted (not just physically dependent), the cravings, insomnia, and distopic feelings may never really go away - thus the high relapse rate. So taking a daily medication becomes more of a pragmatic choice about quality of life, as opposed to the morality based idea of "abstinance". Thanks for the comments.

-David

[nathannathan124]

I was under the impress Methadone was utilized to help people to get off opiates. In my case I was wounded while serving in the marines.I was worried about the pain after I gave up the opiates. Are you telling me the methadone is used for something else than getting off heroin and other drugs? Do not understand why you would need it your entire life? Is it a psychological thing? To me, you are trading one evil for another. Isn't methadone highly additive?

Respectfully asking.

[billyklez]

Great question! Yes, methadone is used to help people who suffer the clinical disease of addiction. It maintains one's dependence on opiates, thus stabilizing psycho-social functioning. But dependence and addiction (both clinical terms) are very different. One can be functionally dependent on methadone (the lifelong patients). When addicted, you function abnormally when taking the drug (e.g.,crime). Methadone is used for chronic pain relief, treatment of bipolar disorder, and addiction. Thanks!

[nathannathan124]

I hope these people take there Methadone the right way. I know methadone can help people but I know a lot of people are fucked up on the dones. I hope these people wing off the dones like they should. But one thing in clear they are trying. Stay positive. Good luck

[billyklez]

Thanks for the comment. But I hope you're not making the common mistake of logic that methadone patients MUST be weaned off their medication. For many patients, methadone is to health what insulin is to the well-being of diabetics. It's not what you do to the drug; it's what the drug does to you. Some people, such as myself, need to remain on an opiate substitute their entire lives .... In its absence, they lose functionality.

[hwydave]

I agree with Greg's comments and would add that I belive all of the participants view Methadone as a long-term manintenance medication and have no plans on discontinuing it's use. I absolutely plan to remain a patient for life as its allowed me to pursue my goals and live as I choose without being constantly hounded by addiction - without it, I'd either relapse, or live a very unhappy existance while waiting to relapse.

-David

[mikeandcooper]

hiya. i see what yer saying about yourself being on an opiate substitute for life otherwise you wont function. but wouldnt you function again once you got thru detox and withdrawal. wouldnt you return back to the way you were before opiates?

[billyklez]

perhaps ... though addiction changes brain chemistry. before opiates i was psychologically and emotionally miserable ... very dysfunctional. opiates have strong psychotropic properties ... mental health physicians in the more advanced countries use opiates to treat all sorts of disorders--bipolar, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc. going off the opiate substitute means going back to a living hell. i say, no thanks!

[mikeandcooper]

@billyklez i see your point. its working for you. what was the comment 3 moinths ago about. you said u must be living in canada and you apologize. just wondering what was that about. are you on suboxone now? or the done?

[hwydave]

Hi Mikeandcooper. Although some people can detox off of opiates and eventually return to normal, most cant - either due to having damaged endorphines by using opiates, or having never had enough to begin with. That's why maintenence is the prefered method with methadone or Sub - people who get off usually relapse, or just endure what then gets classified as depression, insomnia, ect. Not to say no one successfullty tapers, but most don't.

[snoop23foo]

this is cool, more people need to realize that the opiate epidemic is getting bigger and bigger everyday and this is becoming a very common problem. Although its hard for alot of people to get treatment cause it is such a huge epidemic that the clinic are full and booked for months. I mean, people ask for help and they basicly get turned away and are told to continue their drug habit untill they can fit you in! Whats that, these people need help now, glad to see someones helping, thanks :)

[billyklez]

Thanks for your thoughtful and encouraging comments. --Greg Scott

[snoop23foo]

absolutely no problem man. Ive been in and out, ya know, pretty much relapsing on and off the past 3-3.5 years. it defenitly can tear a person down physicaly and mentally. and honestly,i really think this is helping and inspiring alot of people, like there is hope, or there are options. I couldn't tell you how many times where i thought i'd just rather be dead than go on living like that. I don't think i'd ever take that action cause thats how my father went when i was 14, anywho i thank u again

[twfh]

I agree with you 100%.

[hwydave]

Sinboy, I don't know of any federal regulations on that and though SAMHSA recomends it, I couldn't find any specific rules - but let me know if I'm wrong. At the time the clinic was adding water to her individual bottles which bothers many patients who don't like the idea of unrefrigerated water sitting out for a month. As for saftey, we live alone with our cats, but I agree that everyone should be keeping their meds as safe as they deem nessesary.

-David

[hwydave]

Thanks for the comments ya'll.

-David

[gasjar74]

JF- So glad "you're just a normal girl." DF- Really enlightening. Thx.

[sinrboy]

At 4:16 how come the ladies Methadone isn't in a lockbox, instead of out in the open for anyone to have access to or steal?  It is Feral law to keep Methadone in a lock box at all times. This makes us all look bad. This needs to be taken down, and edited!!!!

[sinrboy]

Federal*

[asilek]

Great job, DF.

Thank you SO much for starting this project and thank you to your participants as well!

[qtpie20121]

So glad you got your project up & running! Great job. The statements made are so true! Best of luck with it. It is so good to see our voices being heard. Kris (Finding Normal)