Overpronation, The Truth

[orbitboy]

I don't think that's Geb in the video. Google his other running videos (they're quite numerous) and notice how different the arm carriage is, as well as foot strike. This guy is obvioulsy qhite fast, but I don't think it's Geb.

[crimsonmonieful]

Haile doesn't do this anymore. I used to do the same thing. I had hyper pronation. I had surgery and I'm not sure if it is helping me much. 

[runlevel0]

You are right, I just forgot the "little" detail that he was a kid then! And I bet it wasn't only to school he had to run: Anywhere you have to go in these countries you have to go by foot. I dont' agree with people who say that Ethiopians or Kenians are genetically predisposed, these guys are good because they train hard and are extremely motivated.

[MrGuitaristMatt]

Also, note that Haile Gebrselassie weighs around 120 pounds, so he has significantly less weight to deal with than the average runner.

[runlevel0]

@MrGuitaristMatt The 'average runner' weights around 120 pounds ;)

Maybe the average European / US reacreational runner may be in the 140-150 range but athletes, even tall ones range between a 7 and 17% of body fat index so that even a guy of standard heigh (taht's 5.7 - 5.8 or 1.71m -1.72m) can weight 120 pounds. It's thus not such a special advantage, specially not compared to other elites.

[Shorty20122012]

So the point of this is that I need to strengthen my midsection/core(?) so that I don't get injuries while running due to pronation?

What exercises should I be doing?

I saw in another video, a guy describing having to correct the hip posture in order to strengthen the tendons that go from your waist down to your ankles. What do you think about that?

[BorchettaGroup]

I have strong calve muscles and i over-pronate with no pain. I run in crappy $20 shoes but starting to run more. So i went to a running store that has the high-speed camera and tread mill to make sure i got the best shoe for me. They gave me a high-arch-support shoe that showed on the camera to fix my pronation. WIthin two weeks i have knee pain and a pulled achilles tendon and will likely miss my next triathlon. I'm going back to my crappy shoes and started doing arch muscle exercises.

[tadaa11]

This looks like the end of the race. Of course he's going to be over pronating. He's tired!

[MrGuitaristMatt]

@tadaa11 That makes no sense at all. Your bones, ligaments, and tendons don't stop working when you get tired...

[tadaa11]

@MrGuitaristMatt Those three things ultimately attach to muscle, which get tired and lose stability. Watch someone hit the wall in a marathon. They literally fall inward with each step and sometimes fall down and cant get up. Pronation is normal, btw. These anti pronation shoes allow people to run way further than they should be running. Running bare foot for like 6 months is a great way to learn what your body can handle and also how to build up without breaking down tendons.

[RapForMeDotCom]

Why is the volume so low? Please email me if you need help with video production for the web. This is a great resource but will only have minimal impact due to audio problems.

[worldbestlatindad]

do you know if over-pronation is got some to do, or if is related whit small calves muscles?

[thankallahalltime]

thenoblequran (Ctrl+Enter)

[FPChris]

The +95% people the run at the local parkstreet never run with the legs high behind. These people are doing a fitness "jog" at 10:00 - 12:00 miles. The guy in your video has STRONG ankles. Something that 40-60 year olds likely don't. Totally different mechanics in my opinion. Like others have posted this is ONE guy. Someone always breaks the mold.

[XOZTCATPREZ]

There's no doubting his speed and records, but he has had two achilles tendon operations. Is this a sign of extreme efficiency?

[openuniverse2003]

@XOZTCATPREZ Good call. Typically the pain/soreness goes away as soon as you start jogging, then it hits you like a ton of bricks when you sit around for the rest of the day. I've found that wearing a splint overnight helps, as does doing heel dips on the bottom step of a stairway. I also think that you'll get different medical opinions when you have a condition whose cause isn't easy to pin down exactly. Do what works and makes you pain-free is all you can really do.

[criscros7]

I don't know anything about running, but watching that guy run makes me cringe. I can hardly watch it. It's sending shivers down my spine. It's like watching a tennis or soccer player badly spraining or even breaking his ankle. And that guy does it with every step. lol

[Xcelerate2]

"HI-LEE" not Hayley.

[pgjr00]

ohh great, just paid out for stability running shoes to try to help my knee, now it looks like I didn't need them. The running shop said I was moderately over-pronated but the new shoes haven't made any difference at all. What is really helping most is some strengthening exercises a trainer at my gym taught me to do.

Just for info, I increased my running speed from 7.8 min/miles to 7.1 over 2 months, running 5.5 miles 3 times a week. I didn't do any other exercise.

[ramonsistilha]

I agree, everthing is blamed on pronation and the cure is always othotics, or another "better pair of shoes". it's a money spinner, strengthen you hips, glutes and core and save yourselve a ton of money. And don't heel strike!!

[gyro1nyc]

Over-pronation is not a problem, it is a consequence of the narrowed base of gait adopted in running. Hyperpronation can cause injury. Can the runner recover from over-pronation? What is the weight of the runner? What is the conditioning of the runner? There are many variables. Also, it will be wrong to compare runners with the population with hyperpronation, who cannot re-supinate adequately (Haile clearly does) - this stress exposes tissue to injury and can respond to motion control.

[johnny4463435]

i run and i have flat feet in fact the whole sole of my foot touches the ground if i put it down and i have the problem in this video, not only do i get the ankle pain when running but a couple months ago i had case of very high pain in the ball of my foot. physiotherapist said it was due to excess pressure put on the ball of foot due to the flat feet and other stuff. he told me to get this orthotic and i did and it reduces (not eliminates) this ball of foot pain but then puts pain in the arch.

[phillsmit1982]

please can you look at my video as i really really could do with some gait advice?

[DutchPetriot]

So where does the pain in the center of my foot and my shin splits come from then?

[tylatylaBill]

he is not heel striking for you idiots out there

[WolfmanHorsecow]

Quote from Matt Fitzgerald:

I was surprised to see Geb wearing ... one of adidas’ heaviest trainers ... Here’s a man who is so meticulous about his gear that I overheard him complaining to an adidas technical engineer about the side slits in his shorts not being deep enough, and of all the shoes he could choose for logging heavy miles it’s a pair with marshmallow soles. Here’s a man who grew up running barefoot and has no interest in going back!

[japwhican3]

Ouch, that looks like his ankle is going to snap every time he puts his foot down.

[postaldude2]

Yeah, but he weighs 40 kg. I don't pronate half as much but weigh 95 kg, and ocasionally I have pain after running. I gues weight is more important than pronation.

[heathmoor]

@postaldude2

He doesn't weigh 40 kg, but rather 56 kg (a difference of 16kg, a 29% error).

If you are fat, lose weight. If you are too tall, find another sport; tall people are very appreciated (and favored) in many sports other than endurance running.

[randalllfloyd]

I agree with creasprint. Every case is different. Haile must have a VERY strong Achilles tendon. It looks horribly bent in this clip

[njsportsmed]

he had surgery on his achilles, he has a super strong core/spine pelvis to head and runs from his hips, the correct way to run

[medliberty]

Does this makes a case for strengthening the hip abductors in order to stabilize the trunk and inward rolling knee? I've been doing hip abductor exercises and notice that my plantar fasciitis is improving. I dont know if it is a coincidence.

[manonmercy]

@njsportsmed the fact that he had surgery on his achilles, directly tell us that overpronation is a bad thing.

[FitAcc]

@manonmercy No it doesn't. That is a very blinkered statement. It tells us that he had a problem with his achilles that needed surgery. Could have been caused by any one of many things.

[creasprint]

So, if you really are having problems, get some help. It can turn into something a lot worse very quickly. My problems started with my left foot just never feeling right, no matter what shoe I had on. I used to drive myself crazy trying to find shoes that my feet felt good in.

[powderski11]

why not just go barefoot then

[Hgreene1130]

@powderski11

Because no collegiate or elite runners train exclusively barefoot. It's a supplement.

[creasprint]

This may be true for Haille, but not for the general population. I'm just a high school runner and I've tried everything I can think of to eleviate some of the pain I've had recently. I haven't been able to run for months, and I'll be visiting a podiatrist this week.

If you truely are having pain when you run, do me a favor and get some help. I waited too long and a simple overpronation/plantar fasciitis problem has turned into a curved spine, a functional short leg, and knee problems.

[fandoghshekan]

Hi please explain to me how bad is the curved spine. How long it took for it to curve? How did you end uo with a short leg? Thanks.

[Edsta92]

@creasprint

You say you "have tried everything"---does that include barefoot running? If not, Google it and read up. This is the obvious little secret that the shoe industry and podiatric racket does NOT want you to know about.

[Thjeko]

Very true!

On my Thjeko channel there's another nice vid of Haile's beautiful running (showing him from beside). I made the vid last year when he was in my country to run a race and was hoping to run a WR on the half marathon.

[jasonjantzen]

my point was simply that the notion of a human race that has a significant advantage over another because of their genetics is fluff. Africans, Europeans, & Americans (north & south) have all demonstrated "super human" abilities when running. sports scientists and medical professionals can't explain the majority of these "special" cases. What I've noticed most of these "genetically gifted" folks have in common: they run a hell of a lot, like 200 miles or more a week.

[jasonjantzen]

xr29fb32: so you're saying there's a breed of super or sub-human race on our planet? wow! you should make a movie out of that...oh wait, the comic books already got you beat!

[xr29fb32]

You can't really use runners of African descent as a model for the masses.  They are a whole different animal. They can get away with things that non-Africans can't. That's why they win all of the races. Their bodies are completely different.

[timreespt]

you are obviously an expert on anatomy, physiology and bio-mechanics... 'a whole different animal' 'their bodies are completely different' ...really please explain?

[jpkabler]

Really? So are you aware of the fact that West Africans and East Africans are genetically(on a relative level of course) completely different? In fact, East Africans are more genetically similar to Euro and Asian people than they are to West Africans. Look it up. Its on the web.

[drpsnell]

Outstanding work Doc! Per the overpronation, biomechanist, Benno Nigg's research has confirmed your points here. Your points on level pelvis and strong glutes have been verified in Irene Davis' lab at U Delaware. your remarks on importance of a strong spine/core verified in Stu McGill's work. I run too and work with runner's in my clinic. Less support and forefoot strike combined with the above points "cures" most running injuries.

[oldschoolwc]

hey, just checkn in on you guys. I looked at a running magazine and it had Andrew Wheating(the tall miler guy) and he was wearing a nike Equalon, a verry corrective shoe. Ive just never deen an elite wearing a shoe for someone with less than perfect biomechanics. Just throwing that out there. Thanks.

[oldschoolwc]

seen not deen. sorry

[gabilotas]

Nice video... thanks for such a clear explanation

[dtuu6170]

what if your only pronating on one foot. That is my problem .... during my sprint training sometimes my lower back hurts. Im thinking its the unbalanced pressure of having one pronated ankle and the other normal. Ps i am a flat footer, also play rugby.

[timreespt]

learn pose from a decent practitioner, there are loads of crap ones out there. Basically, your problem is not overpronation but time on support. If you spend too long on one leg (ie slow cadence) then over pronation is a problem. Learn to run with the ball of the foot falling directly below your centre of mass, as that happens the other foot should be directly under you butt, just like your man in the video.

[GetBackJack123]

@timreespt Well, If I want to learn to run injury free and more efficiently, why can't I go do it? Is it really necessary to go to a practitioner? What should I know if I want to go run like this tomorrow?

[thebbk]

There is a very significant point made here which I think may be getting overlooked. The amount of time his foot stays on the ground is very small. He is efficient in that he lands under his body - not out in front, then lifts his foot up very quickly - as opposed to pushing off. He doesn't crash his heels. Most recreational runners land on their heels - out in front, pull themselves over their feet then end with a strong push off while in a overpronated position. That's how trouble starts.

[shroom1357]

@thebbk Try to run 4:40 pace w/out "pushing off". If you look at videos of Geb or KB from the side there is a definite push-off and landing out in front of the body. What many people are missing in this video is 1) Geb has had injuries, most notably achilles problems and 2) we don't actually know what shoes he trains in.

[deltawye]

@shroom1357 I will not contest the push-off, but I do not see Haile ever "landing out in front of the body." watch?v=YSp1r1QhUSY

Of course his feet reach out in front, but they move back before landing.

[DutchPetriot]

@thebbk THANKS for this aditional info! ( the heel thing ) cause that just might be my problem !

[clash44]

@thebbk here's the thing that I've found though. Although landing under your hips has become a fairly commonly shared idea about how to avoid damage to the knees ankles etc. I've found that in any race where you've got to cover some serious distance it just isn't effective enough to run the way your body naturally would.

[clash44]

@thebbk the other half: moving you legs like a pendulum and engaging every muscle in you legs by putting them out in front of you in a lunge sort of stride gives you a "pull" and of course then following through over your feet gives you the natural push that continues to propel you forward.In effect you become twice as efficient and move twice as fast as the competition. Granted, I've had knee and hip issues since I started doing that and now no longer run; but hey I won a few races XP

[njsportsmed]

yes, may cause injury

basic neutral running shoe like what was made in the 70s/80s

would fall under competition/racing for most manufacturing (but not racing flats)

[navajjo66]

Also, just wondering do you have a view on this i.e. might shoes that are pitched at overpronators actually be harmful in some cases, and if so what type of shoe would you recommend as an alternative?

[navajjo66]

Thanks for this. I'm not scientifically trained but am naturally skeptical of the "overpronation is bad for you" school of thought. My sense is that nature is usually quite efficient so that the running style you adopt naturally is probably the best one for you. I wonder how healthy it is for a person to wear shoes designed for overpronators when the purpose of the shoes is to force the person to adopt an unnatural running style.

[smartybbq]

the guys right. the runner is so strong his body compensates!

[timtak1]

10 km to school in the mornings, and 10km back!

[njsportsmed]

Love it! Thanks for the comment.

[timtak1]

about overpronation.

1) overpronation is nature's way of protecting from shocks.

2) Gebrselassie uses overpronation to protect himself from the shock of the speed he's running at.

3) Overweight people overprone to protect themselves from the shock of overweight even at low speed.

4) They could slow down still further but then they would hardly even be jogging.

5) If they wear shoes to prevent OP, then they'll hurt their knees.

6) They need to loose weight or stop jogging.

[gbudning]

screw jogging, lose the extra weight through weight training first, you'll be shoring everything up in the process and then once you're down to sub 25 or 30% BFP start jogging and the increased muscle mass will take the extra weight with ease. i have flat feet but i've never had issues because i'm strong and instead i compensate with a little pop in my gate.

[runlevel0]

@timtak1 that's not so much. 6 miles is a short run. Sure it wasn't 10 miles ?

[timtak1]

@runlevel0 According to his wikipedia article it was 10km (or about 6 miles) to school and back. It is perhaps not so far for an adult runner but for a primary(?) school child...ooh...And also think of the hope. He was running himself into a new future, out of his village and into the big wide world.

[booeing2007]

1) You've selected one (1) of the top runners to show that overpronatation is OK. That's similar to cigarette companies finding one smoker who hasn't died of cancer to prove smoke doesn't cause cancer.

2) In terms of efficiency, overpornation is bad because your force vector is not precisely lined up with where you want to go.

3) I don't have medical training and you do so your opinion would weigh much more; but, I think biomechanically this much overpronation cannot be right.

[njsportsmed]

I could fill You Tube with videos of 'overpronators' (if there is such a diagnosis, afterall it's an arbitrary angle with no science behind it) leading all of the marathon majors. Check out the lead group at the recent Rotterdam Marathon, everyone looks like Haille. Prolonged 'overpronation' is bad, not 'overpronation' in and of itself. Again, remember you can't just look at the feet. You've missed the point, sincerely, George Burns.

[cipherscribe1111]

Great video. Thank you for the information

[oldschoolwc]

I have looked at BareFeet orthotics that are supposed 2 strengthen the arch instead of providing the crutch of a motion control. And HyProCure internal sinus tarsi implant. Any kindof feedback would be apreciated. this is for a runner w/ sub 20min 5k. sub 1:30 half mar.

[njsportsmed]

Complex question. Treatment depends on symptom complaint and correct diagnosis...

I am not familiar with 'BareFeet' orthotics; my take, the only way to strengthen muscles is to use them. Avoid implants at all costs.

Remember training error (too much, too fast, not enough recovery) is just as important as running technique.

[medliberty]

I have PF and agree that the only way to strengthen muscles is to use them. However, while injured isnt it better to allow the injury to heal? If I had a broken bone, for example, wouldnt I be better off in a cast rather than trying to strengthen the bone by exercising it while injured? Some advise barefoot running/walking to cure PF but I think that may actually aggravate the problem in the injury stage. I'm all in favor of it after the injury has healed but unsure what to do while injured.

[oldschoolwc]

"motion control Bad, Overpronation Good!?! " Yeh, I want 2 belive this cause i have verry low arches but here are some of my takes. 1st I belive if I weighed the same as an elite, I would probable be able 2 wear watever shoes i wanted also. 170 on me looks thin(6ft) but is still 170. 2nd, barefoot activeties should be more emphisized early in life, thus forming good biomechs. I just figured elites would have perfect feet b/c if they didnt, how could they be so efficient??

[j000a111n222]

Manipulated pics!

[yorks432]

very interesting! thank you for this post