Tuning a harpsichord in Bach's temperament - Bradley Lehman

[retiredsk8tr1953]

Thanks. Great demo! Is it the Ditonic or Syntonic comma divided here?

[thebpl]

@retiredsk8tr1953 Ditonic (or Pythagorean) comma

[rodstartube]

that looks like an already tempered cat

[shiningnight73]

I'm just one more guy taught in music school that well-tempered=equal tempered. Just found your article on the diagram on the WTC title page. Incredible that this was overlooked for so long! Really, really cool. Thanks, man! Bach is even MORE genius than I already knew.

[shobarsch]

cat likes meantone

[MrMaestro14231]

why are the colors of the keys on your harpsichord inside-out?

[iluvspam6]

Oh, Brad you make me laugh. Hitting yourself in the head when there is a perfectly (!?!?!) good cat sitting RIGHT THERE to "use" instead... I didn't REALLY call a cat "good", did I? Ah, Bach. You ROCK!!!!!! And how is it that the tuning of the temperament is your highest viewed video. Put something on here that we'll watch (and share) over and over again. And how does "Freebird" sound on this????

[RoboticusMusic]

my cat jives with its tippy tail like that too.

[karlmahlmann]

Very informative video. I take it there is no "octave stretching" on a harpsichord as is common in piano tuning. Again, very nice presentation.

[JLeeGraham]

This is a revelation! Fantastic!  I'll give it a try. Thanks!

[mrmolinodelahoz]

I like very much your technique and style of playing music. The tuning varints drives me crazy and I finally setteled on equal tones. If I were playing Bach´s art of fuge all in d I would make a mean tune to work in that one key. All perfect intervals for d. Also some harpsichords have false vibrations and do not reveal their true relationships. Who knows why?

[thebpl]

Thanks! Incidentally, the Art of Fugue does NOT work well in meantone. I play all of it, and I recorded Contrapunctus 3 on my CD demonstrating this temperament.

Meantone doesn't work because the music goes beyond the ordinary 12 notes (Eb-Bb-F-C-G-D-A-E-B-F#-C#-G#) in both directions. For example, Cp 3 requires 16: those 12, plus Ab, Db, D#, and A#. Whenever those 4 notes come up, if it's tuned in meantone, it's suddenly horribly dissonant.

Maybe I'll make a demo video of that sometime.

[Pianotec]

I've find the C# major triad choking, there is such difference between the c# f and f a thirds that they are in fact inverted (the faster being the lowest one). This is very far from equal , to my ears (too much !).

Instructions are clear, well done .

[neunwest]

look at the cat... she seems warmed and relaxed listening to all that sound :)

[yyjchou]

Thanks for doing the demo. It's exactly the same method my first harpsichord teacher showed me over 15 years ago, same procedure. I reckon - the American way? (She was a DMA from Julliard). I would enjoy Werckmeister and Kirnberger very much, but this way (or your way) of tuning the harpsichord is practical for daily use and depends on individual taste and ear rather than following historical approaches, which I think was also came from taste, mathematical calculation, and trial and error.

[wandalewlandowska]

Post Script: I love the cat on the harpsichord!

[pianoplayeruk]

your cat seems to have rather large ears.. Probably caused by all the Bach it gets to listen to...

[rickisteiner]

thanks !

[rickisteiner]

Is that the same steps for doing equal temperament on a piano?, asks my piano-tuner fiance.

[thebpl]

No, this is a different temperament. It happens to work very well on pianos, too, but it's not equal.

[nrvstorm]

What pitch level are you tuning this to? I have an A 430 fork that I'm using...

[thebpl]

My harpsichord in this demo is at 440.

[123odi321]

the cat...*LoL*

[wandalewlandowska]

Absolutely brilliant deduction from the title page and an excellent tutorial. It's a mistake to think Bach suddenly 'discovered' the equal division of the comma over the octave; it was known in Frescobaldi's day but he rejected it because it lacked drama and tension/release his writing demands. Lehman's discovery is taking Cleveland by storm; everyone's tuning harpsichords and PIANOS according to Bach and loving it as it's unspeakably beautiful. Important discovery.

[latribe]

I'm not sure about this temperament. It's worth looking at the Kellner "Bach" temperament which was derived from similar sources. It's a well behaved unequal temperament that makes a lot of sense in its gradual progression from the white keys to the extremes of the black keys with lots of accidentals.

[wandalewlandowska]

Thanks for your comment, Latribe. I have heard objections to the "Bach" temperament only twice. The first was motivated by a piano tuner's intransigence to try anything new. When I visited my grandson in Cleveland last year, he introduced me to a number of harpsichords, an 1815 Broadwood piano & a few modern ones tuned in this system. My instruments are now in Bach. I've noticed more harpsichords in London as of late are tuned to "Bach". It's a matter of taste, I suspect. I do like Kellner, too.

[latribe]

Hi! Yes - I appreciate where you're coming from - but I understand that the Bradley Lehman temperament is furthest away from purer tuning in the region of 3 or 4 accidentals. This doesn't really make a good deal of sense to me.

Tunings such as Kellner move progressively from very good in all white keys to "most interesting" in the "most remote" all black keys. This makes some philosophical sense. Certainly Chopin's Raindrop Prelude and Funeral March in particular benefit in Kellner.

[latribe]

Anyway, thanks for reminding me of this video and how helpful it is. I'll try the tuning before long.

However, the other aspect is that the BL thesis relies on turning the squiggle upside down, and other interpretations such as that by John Charles Francis don't rely on such gymnastics of interpretation and broadly correlate with the Kellner Bach temperament, itself not far from Kirnberger III which has historical provenance.

For these two reasons I have not paid much attention to BL.

[wandalewlandowska]

I see, Latribe. I didn't know this, and must confess to being out of the loop concerning any subjective modifications made to make the system "work". I will advise my grandson in Cleveland about this. I must say, however, that it is indeed a beautiful temperament which seems to be very popular amongst musicians both in the UK and America. I will research the work of JC Francis. Thank you for your message.

[latribe]

Hi! We had fun at the weekend with an instrument on which we could alter temperament easily - search YouTube for

"Introduction to unequal temperaments in F Sharp" and "Krebs in F Minor in Kellner temperament" "Trying out meantone temperament in F minor" from which you'll see what the Lehman temperament and the Kellner temperament are trying to avoid.

[wandalewlandowska]

I'll watch these, Latribe. Thank you.

[ralkramralkram]

This is a really weird song! Did Bach really write this song?

[tormodal]

Thank you for this major discovery! I have tried this temperament with several instruments. It works. Not a keyboard player myself, I must say a harpsicord tuned this way is just easy to play in tune with. Modern piano tuners refrain from comment please. This is not within your scope of experience...

[nrvstorm]

I'm a modern (equal temperament) tuner who is enjoying this temperament for a McNulty fortepiano. So Tormodal, it is within the 'scope of my experience'.

[juan486]

Fuck, it was confusing. Really interesting man, all about Bach's drawing, but still, hahaha, I couldn't understand much of what you did, I need to read more about it.

That's a nice harpsichord.

Greets man.

[c0string]

I've spent the last decade working for Bösendorfer and Steinway, tuned 100s of pianos by now, and I tell you this is THE absolute worst thing I have ever heard in my life, I've tuned plenty of harpsichords and organs. From my experience this temperament can be accepted, just not the way this guy is doing it, it doesnt sound like it's supposed to....

[thebpl]

"Doesn't sound like it's supposed to" in what way, please? This video isn't about setting equal temperament.

[c0string]

I never said anything about equal temperament... I've tuned plenty of instruments with Bach's tuning for concerts using only his works. I'm saying either theres something wrong with the harpsichord or your intervalls sound bad. Theres nothing pure about those 5ths, look into it..

[thebpl]

I've listened again to my original .WMV file with the volume turned all the way up, and the E-B-F#-C# 5ths and octaves are clean. Perhaps YouTube's conversion to Flash has muddied the sound a little bit? Granted, the whole thing originates at the lousy built-in microphone of my videocam.

But those three 5ths are definitely clean and pure on that harpsichord, every time I do it...and I've set this temperament more than 300 times since 2004. Sorry that sound doesn't come through properly.

[thebpl]

Anyway, the point isn't to quarrel too much about free amateur digital videos, or call them "THE absolute worst thing".

This video is pedagogical: showing people how to set up this temperament in a hands-on and "no-fear" way, without needing any electronic devices. I've also used it on my clavichord and on organs and pianos. It works for everything.

If you have details of the concerts you've used this for, please send them to me and I'll add them to the Usage page at larips. Thanks!

[henricusbajanensis]

I read your article on EM...how stupid of all of us not to catch the evidence in the frontispice,it was all there! Bravo

[tonyshawk]

i should go and read it too, i don't know about tuning but i do have access to that journal

[titilecool2445481]

duuuuude look at that fat ugly cat on top of the piano!

[CapriSonnet]

It's not a piano

[tonyshawk]

the cat is so cute!

[orangecappuccino]

the cat is adorable. you`re odd ;)

[richardmix]

You're right about the tuning fork not hurting, but it will provoke giggling when you conduct an a cappela chorus, which is why I make a habit of using my knee!

[estudiomonteverdi]

many thaks ! very helpful !