I like how you said in a previous video that translating is supposed to make it as close to what the original Japanese saw, but then you want to take out entire character gimmicks (talking using their name), which makes it different from what the Japanese experience.
I agree with most of what you say, though I think things such as honorifics should stay a long with translations on signs and such as I like to know what they say, heck even professionals in the anime industry want to have text for signs/writing in the shows but can't in a lot of situations because of subtitle guidelines
5:53 I totally get what you mean when characters refer to themselves with their name. Why are they speaking in third-person? I know it's supposed to be cutesy in Japan but in America it makes you Dr. Doom or WWF era The Rock.
It seems like you put a good bit of work into making these videos. Thank You.
However, your insults detract from your arguments/opinions. It's almost as if you forget this is your opinion. No more or less valid than any other. Your criticism of those that don't share your opinion is disappointing.
@donoho I personally enjoy the insults and find that they make the video more entertaining.
this video was not made to be super-professional like it's part of a job application. he's not trying to submit a petition to the United States Secretary of Anime Subtitling.
what he's doing is calling out silly people for doing dumb things, and pointing out why it's dumb and why they should stop. it's ok to be insulting and entertaining for a video like this.
I have to agree with everything this say, some times I even need to pauze my screen to read all the stuff written on it. Now with digital tv thats possible but not everyone has digital tv or the remote in hand to pauze the freaking show every minute. I don't know if the translater added more english text than what it said or that the japanese simply talked a lot faster. I'm studying Japanese atm and I hope in 3 years I can watch anime and shows in raw.
"Shinigami" may translate literally to "death god", but the common English term is "Grim Reaper", or just "Reaper". "Grim Reaper" is too negatively loaded to match the connotations the word is supposed to have in Bleach, and "Reaper" on its own is commonly thought of as "short for Grim Reaper", so that'd just carry the same negative ballast.
"Soul Reaper", while made up, is perfectly understandable and carries the meaning "shinigami" is supposed to have in the story. It's a brilliant choice.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but if the shot was focused on japanese text, I'm sure that for english viewers to get the same experience they should know what it says. Especially if a sign/paper said something significant, and it wasn't spoken :/
I agree with everything in these videos except for the fact that people do speak as the third person in English speaking countries. It's not all anime that refer to them self by their name. Sailor Moon doesn't, but maybe that way of speaking is unique to the characters in that particular story...
The only issue I have what you've not seemed to have mentioned, is what about when a character referrs to theirself in a playful manner, (usually female) like they're not from this planet, y'know? In a "cutesy" sorta way.
Or catchphrases. I dunno. That said, we all know Lee Chaolan's catchphrase is "Excellent!" though, that's because of his "Engrish". Sometimes I think there should be exceptions.
I prefer word for word translations. Keyword: Translation.
The anime at 0:35 you complain about all the things begging for the viewers attention, but in this show a ton of jokes are written in the background and the show is a lot less enjoyable when you miss all those jokes seeing as it's a comedy. If I was a Japanese viewer, I would be dealing with the same things regardless, listening to the characters while trying to catch the background writing for jokes.
This is stupid! I agree that all the flashy karaoke subs & stupid trivia pop ups have no place. But some words like daimyo & shinigami are best left in Japanese. in case you haven't noticed those words are also used in the English audio dub.
I've seen professional DVD subs that include English text for Japanese charters.
FYI Most westerners can't read Japanese charters. It makes sense that some Japanese charters have a translation provided. Any professional translator would understand this!
I don't like most of the Japanese words left in 'translations' in subtitles. Nowadays, yes, I know what 'shinigami' means. But when I first got into anime, and saw that term, it confused the hell out of me. Same with all the honorifics. The only way I could actually find out what they meant was by asking my friend who was teaching herself Japanese, or when I read the 'translators notes' in the backs of my manga volumes. (Oh and to explain- I encountered anime several months before I read manga.)
@EspeonSilverfire2 So do you like the English "translation" as Soul Reaper? Shinigami directly means Death God and it was retarded as hell for Viz to make up their own bullshit term.
@DrunkSamurai I have 3 points to make in response. 1) The translation 'Soul Reaper' is only used in Bleach, and not in any other series e.g. Death Note. 2) That is a professional translation. This documentary is about fan translations and subs, so this is pretty irrelevant. 3) I know for a fact that the Bleach creator himself, Tite Kubo, has said that Soul Reaper is actually closer in meaning to what he intended than Death God or Shinigami. So no, as a Bleach fan, I have no problem with it.
@EspeonSilverfire2 1) Which doesn't mean anything. They still used it. 2) The point being they made up their own term for no reason.
3) No that is bullshit. I have repeatedly asked for people to prove he said it and yet they never produce anything showing it. So you do not know for a fact he said it. That thing was bullshit made up by morons on a forum.
@DrunkSamurai I can see that arguing with you is pointless, so I won't bother replying after this. I will concede that perhaps 'for a fact' was too strong a wording. However, I did some research, and Kubo has used 'Soul Reaper' in the latest Bleach book Masked. Check the scans on bleach.wikia (dot ) com/wiki/Bleach:_Official_Character_Book_2_MASKED . It says 'Detailed explanation of Soul Reaper' on one of the original Japanese scans (i.e. untranslated so Viz have not touched them).
I actually don't mind if they translate a set of japanese characters on the screen unless the person or persons in the show state what it is than there is no need to translate it. Since fansubs are done by amateurs you can't really expect it to be professional. But yes stop the flashy text.
And once again, Otaking thinking is one sided. Take out your knowledge of the Japanese language/culture then give a solution.
However, your solution to a better translated interaction was great which would of helped if you gave more on these examples instead of ranting and insulting. The quotes from expert TL is helpful in your argument but it's void if you yourself don't offer solutions as you did with the re-translated segment.
I seriously can't understand the part with the third Person at the end. If the character refers to himself in third person, why would you translate it in first person in the sub?
Also, I prefer honorifics like -chan -san -sama -Onee-chan etc way more, since, translated in english, its either sounds stupid, or it gives you a false expression on the characters relationship to each other
Just Imagine a wife refers to her husband with -san. Which wife calls her husband with Mr.X?
@oOoOFaKeoOoO Agreed with your last sentence. That meaning will be extra tricky to not leave the -san honorific alone unless the viewer is able to understand why she is referring to her husband with the -san prefix.
Which I am fine with leaving such honorific as above intact unless the TL is able to take up the challenge to find a way to express her usage of -san towards her husband without using Mr.
The thinking should always be directed to how a new viewer will see it, not the avid fan.
Speaking in third person can have important meaning, though. Example: Kanon 2006. Even the professional dub has a girl refer to herself in third person.
I'm all for translating japanese written text and signs if they are relevant to the story. It frustrates me when you see nothing but unreadable characters without meaning (original viewers knew what was written there).
i don't like the translations like grim reaper for shinigami, escencially beacuse the grim reaper and the shinigamis are not the same, the fansub it's not made for general people, is for the fans of the anime that like to know more about the culture, maybe that's just my opinion,.but maybe the solution for the people that is upset to the work made by fans is buy the original dvd's
Just to point out, in terms of making English viewers understand, grim reaper is a better translation then death god... it is a term understood by many and is used in some profesional fansubs I own.
@Grandstra I don't know. Just because most people here know what final fantasy is doesn't mean a random person will know Bahamut is a highrank summon or Curaga is a healing spell.
@BuranLyoko Yeah, I'm sure baka is such an important cultural cornerstone of the Japanese language it must forever go untranslated.
Even if they're not aimed for the mainstream, that's still no excuse for sloppy and amateurish translation. All you're doing is pandering to your audience. Every anime is someone's first, so it needs to be accessible as possible. Claiming it's just for a specialist audience is laughable.
My main language is spanish, I've seen dubbed and subbed english movies and guess what: They don't fill them with untranslated words just so it "feels" english.
1. ...wait, you oppose superimposition for storefronts and other in-show text? I mean, if it's a serious shot with them staring at a grave, don't you want to be staring at the grave, not at the grass near the grave labelling it as "Tanaka Tarou"?
2. Referring to oneself by one's own name is more common in Japanese than in English, but it still demonstrates oddity and immaturity in a similar way to doing so in English.
Fansubs today have many serious problems, but I'd say these aren't so.
No creo que tu punto de vista sea correcto, si quisieramos ver las cosas como lo ven los japoneses, nos bajaríamos las raws y aprenderiamos japonés para tener la misma experiencia televisiva que ellos. La mision de que haya tantas lineas y tantos incrustados es comprender lo que dicen. Es cierto que muchos fansubs no saben hacer que parezca discreto, llenando pantallas y pantallas de texto inutil y desmesurado, pero a esos no se les suele llamar fansubs, si no fastsubs. En ellos si que hay ego.
i don't remember how many times i pressed Space to stop the videos and read translator's note. thanks god i'm looking at this alone in my room, and not with friends...
2:06 "and puts the skill of the translator to a severe test" wow ! even a pro supports my opinion ? i always thought fansubbers are just lazy brains who don't know what a transposition is...
And I don't really know what you mean by "If you can't translate, you have no business calling yourself a translator."
You mean translating the way you want it to be translated? Sorry, mate, but there's no *true* way to translating. Besides, most "professional" (note that I used the word "most" there) translators use "Americanized" slang and language in their translation. Is that the so-called "proper" translation? How about if one were to use "British" slang? Calamity? The horror? Woe is me?
@Pitchguest "t there's no *true* way to translating." of course my friend ! there are many way to translate anything according to the richness of its meaning. but the choice is YOURS ! for the sake of legibility and fluence, you should impose the reader YOUR translation, so he can be comfortable with the show. you shouldn't let him decide, let him do the work in your place. because he suddently has to think about the translation and it interrupts his focus on the show.
@DrunkSamurai mmm ? how ? why does the fact that someone suddently cannot help thinking about something ELSE than the show he is watching, because of the translator's lazyness, makes you question his intelligence ?
When the fuck does fansubbers write "kisama" and "anata" and whatever the fuck you think they do "most of the time" anyway?! Seriously, what the fuck are you on about? (Read: they DON'T.)
Not ever in my life have I seen a fansubber write "kisama" when they mean "the hell are you." Not ever in my life have I seen them write "anata." Stop being stupid on purpose, stop being so bloody ignorant. It's an old video, but for *fuck's sake*. I feel stupider for just *watching* this piece of shit.
I disagree about your referring-to-self-in-the-third-person thing. It's uncommon but traditionally "weird" characters in English have been doing it for centuries--Smeagol/Gollum from LOTR and Sloth from Goonies are just two examples I can think of right now.
As someone said, agree and disagree. Agree because there are some things that we dont understand if it is translated literaly from japanes. It most be adapted. Agree because sometimes fansubs fill the screen with a lot of things that are not necessary. Disagree because one of the reasons that makes me watch anime is for learn about the japanes culture and unfortunately this is my only way and the official translation loose a lot of things. Fansubs may do a balance. By the way, nice documentary.
As for keeping the speaker using their name instead of using I, it DOES happen in English. See: Children. Yes, not many children do it, but you still see it. Though, not having seen the anime before, I can probably guess that Miwako is rather immature and childish for her age.
Translating Zanpaktou is weird. It'd be the same as translating Iaijutsu. Really weird. Oh, and I haven't mention that it'd be more of a mouthful than before.
As I said to the friend (a freelance professional translator) who linked me this documentary, you really need to preserve things like idiosyncratic speech patterns (like this Miwako's) and expressions that are intended by the writer to sound weird... and it's hard to preserve puns in translation, too.
That said, it's usually okay to render "zanpaktou" as "soul-sword" and "iaijutsu" as "fast-draw," unless the technical jargon is really important to the scene...
Karaoke subs in a non-opening/ending sequence is distracting yes. It's also why not many groups do it anymore.
For the SZS, ignoring the translation notes, and the dialogue subtitles, the board jokes are meant to screw with you anyway. Not to mention, not many people can understand what a person is saying while simultaneously reading text. so having a mess of text on screen can technically be used to simulate the experience.
Oh, and explaining to use what japanese food are is stupid.
@Tanuka So? In your country is there a special way for "childish people" to say "I"? No? Then it's "I".
Same applies to "nakama", which One Piece translators seem to like to leave in Japanese. It doesn't matter that in Japanese there are more or different ways to say "friend" or "comrade", in my language (Spanish) there are many ways too to say it, like "camarada" (comrade), "amigo" (friend), "colega" (buddy), etc. Just use the goddamn word that most suits it in your language.
@Aitorcitillo That's like saying it's irrelevant to keep even the basic characteristics of a person's distinct speech pattern, like keigo or even Japanese dialects. Even things like that help the creators properly develop and shape a character. I don't see the relation between childish characters talking in third person and the raging wapanism shown by Kaizoku-Fansubs.
Loved everything so far, but I only have one nit pick.
Speaking about oneself in the third person in the English language does happen. Not often, but it does happen. If the entire anime is translated, and something comes up (like an inquiry into why the character speaks in the third person) than their name should be kept as it is. If not, yes, you are absolutely correct.
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ill say that again: those are FASNUBS they are doing it on their free time and we should be gratfull we can see anime easily and freely because of them.
@maniula12 I am grateful to be able to understand a show I like in another language thanks to their work. I am not grateful to be missing a large part of what the original show had to offer (what is lost in sub-par translation) because the fansubbers subtitle to the level of their personal preference and not to some professional standard.
I can see how you'd think that, but I'm actually refering to subtlety of references and speech (not intended to be "gotten" unless personally recognized, like stealth puns or inside jokes) and the chance to focus your attention on the details of the animation instead of competing with reading an unnecessary bombardment of excessive, informational texts, examples shown in the video.
@xjxm I must have forgot to respond to this before. I do not think translator notes are ever unnecessary if they are explaining a pun/joke or what something is.
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Now, about what i just said i have the perfect proof: when you are brining examples of words in japanses that are saved in the english translation at ther'e original meaning you totally IGNORE that some of the fasnubs just put the editor's comment i talked about so the watchers could understand! totally ignored them and focused on you rubbish.
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Now i have to say somthing a bit ugly: Your'e an idiot: first, YOU do not accept the explantions of the fasnubs editor to some of the japanese words, then you do not accept them USE it. lets think together: they are (some of them, because the fasnubs groups are diffrent, some good but some bad) putting those explantions so the watchers can understand the right word in japanse instead of switching it with somthing else without the exact meanning!
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Be ashamed.
Do you even know whats a "gigai"?, "Zanpakto"?.
those are objects in the world of the anime you just brought, theres no need to find another mean to them because there is no such thing in the real world, plus, the watchers should know what they mean since those were explained in the anime itself.
He does, but I'm doubtful Americans, or most Westerners should watch SZS if they're not gonna get references. Hell, even with all of those notes, many still don't know what the fuck is going in SZS. Some stuff is just not meant for other cultures outside one's own, no matter how hard you try to present it over there.
I dont agree that the subs at 5.57 - 6.45 are wrong.
I mean, if the character is explicitly reffering to himself in the 3d person it display's an egotystical trait of the character. replacing it with "I" would make it sound strange since the she is speaking her name.
not really, speaking of yourself in third person is childish (as children and also many immature shoujo heroines do it), but not necessaryly egotistical. It's obvious she is childish anyway. I mean, look at the pink hair and sugar that emanates from her.
Can't say I agree with everything in this document, but some things are spot-on.
What is genuine? Obviously, you have trouble deciphering the original cultural context (as do I in lot of cases, and as most people who are not japanese)
When you say that's it's as weird to translate japanese texts appaearing for example on a tumb as translating alien dialtect in Star Wars, you imply that Japenese is some king os alien language that what invented for the purpose of anime and that has no meaning.
Don't you translatea note someone left in subtitles for example ?
what he's saying is that adding a seperate line, even for the sake of translation, just looks messy and awkward. just because you disagree with his point doesn't give you the right to put words in his mouth.
and also, just because you, a "pro" subber, wants to see something awful and poorly done, doesn't give you the right to speak for what fans in general want to see.
and also, not all studies come from books. wanna find them? 2 words: google it.
In the whole shinigami to deathgod thing, i would say the most natural translation would be "Grim reaper" and some of the older anime dvds I own would agree.
I would rather go with "Death God", it's simpler and less embarrassing. What a lot of fansubbers don't understand is their language excludes "normal people" from watching anime. It's an awkward, fetishistic, excluding approach and it limits the appeal of anime. Shouldn't the goal be to show people a new, fantastic thing, rather than to create a community focused on circle-jerking over their language? It's self-serving and immature! Translations should be about the art, not your e-peen.
3:20 Do you remember Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3? They traveled in time and used the word daimyo. No one got confused, just thought "that must be some high social rank".
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One thing about Shinigami vs. Death God. Just say no to Soul Reaper which is a term invented by Viz for no goddamn reason. Yes I prefer Shinigami but wouldn't care if it was translated to Death God. Soul Reaper is just terrible and Viz is a shitty company all around.
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It doesn't matter. Soul Reaper is a shitty term. They made it up for no real reason. Also it's nice to get a lot of thumbs down from ignorant morons who don't know shit.
Maybe just that but Death God is still the better term. Actually no. Notice hardly anybody is responding to my comments. That just means they are ignorant and know I'm right.
So because people don't reply to your comments you are right?
How?
Maybe nobody replied to your comments because they were inflammatory. Insulting people also has the effect of making people dislike you which could be why you got voted down.
How is Soul Reaper a shitty term? Their job is collecting souls and sending them to soul society or hell.
Also what do you mean by "Maybe just that but Death God is still the better term" it doesn't make sense.
One thing I'll never understand in fansubs is the frequent presence of the original lyrics in kanji/hiragana/katakana during openings and endings. Aren't romaji lines enough for karaoke purposes?
I'm amused that we keep seeing clips of the Death Note fansub even though the *official* sub was heavily literal with subs of letters, signs, etc, all the way up the screen. The manga also retained honorifics. Argument from authority, yo.
I share with most of the opinions here. Notes should only be used for japanese or asian cultural explanations. English subs for "Garbage" stickers should definatedly not be there, it's understandable through vision, however for things like graves it's useful, to understand some things. For the school board parts. Yes, translations shouldn't be there as they serve no purpose in the understanding of progression or dialogue. Finally, we understand maybe u r a pro, but don't get angry at free servic
Very true. If the on-screen text is understandable through context, read out loud, or unimportant fluff, there's no reason to toss some obstructing translation into the middle of the screen. Unless said grave is just shown like that, it's important you understand whose grave it is, and it's not explained or made obvious, of course you go ahead and translate it. If not, leave it be. No one gives a crap about what random family name the artists put on some random gravestone in some random pan.
I totally agree. I don't know if you've seen the fansubs for .hack//GIFT, but they were terrible. Luckily, I got the DVD, and the official subs by Bandai (which are a million times better).
Fansubs are the worst when translated by weeaboos. We do not need senpai, san, chan, furo, onii-chan, or any of that other crap. Just translate the damn thing or stop doing it all together.
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Japanese honorifics are used to show the degree of respect someone adresses to another.They are essential for a better understanding of whats really happening on the screen.Removing them would result in a poor americanization.
@chojinhaiiii I hate to see those thumbs down you got, since you're right. Japanese honorifics describe the relationship between two people and sometimes Uncle, Jeezer, Sister cannot achieve the same effect.
maybe the fansubbers think that we viewers want to know EVERYTHING that is on the screen, and..... yeah sometimes I like to know whats written on the door seeing as I can't read Calligraphy or Asian characters.
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Sorry, you may be right that there are many separated nuances, in French and Germany, but they don't have a medium such as anime that attacts as much attention!
"There aren't any good German cartoons out there, so German translations don't have to be filled with untranslated bullshit", is that what you're saying?
Also, there are many great German movies on the market, and "anime" is not a "medium". "Cartoon" is a medium, "anime" is just a label for cartoons from geographical location x.
@Pikachu132 wrong "anime" is the equivalent to saying "cartoon" its the name for the medium but the "anime community" wanted something to make it "different"
The overlaid text is sometimes necessary because the anime itself is complete nonsense, or because if you would translate all the text on screen at the bottom of the screen with the other subtitles, you would get crit by a wall of text.
I especially hate DVD subs where 2 people are talking at the same time, and the subs just go over each other, and you get all messed up having no idea who just said which line.
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I'm really not understanding the point of this video. Fansubbers are hobbyists who translate anime for other hobbyists, all who belong to a niche group who like Japanese culture and want to see these anime with their original references. They don't want similes and metaphors translated, they'd rather understand them in the cultural context. They don't want honorifics translated, they want to enjoy the subtleties of Japanese interaction.
all of those theories on translation are only for professionals. fansubs originally were made out of love for the genre, not to try and please the audience. they aren't professionals, so you shouldn't have the same expectations. if you play a pickup game of basketball at the park, you don't expect the people there to play like NBA players.
*Translator's note: Adios is short for "vaya con dios" which means "go with God". It is used as a traditional Spanish farewell. However, since it has no direct English equivalent it cannot possibly be translated
I find the referring-to-oneself-by-name thing highly amusing when it comes to fanfiction! Particularly when non-Japanese characters do it. For instance, in a lot of Hetalia fanfiction, Italy often refers to himself by name and rarely uses "you" even though he's Italian, NOT Japanese.
Ok, I understand how stupid the translation of songs DURING action scenes to clutter up the page, but I do find it helpful to have some translation under the titles of doors for English people to know what is behind the door. I mean it isn't as annoying to look at, but it's there and it doesnt bother me
Anime fansubbers and japanophiles are the kind of people who use terms like "one-chan" and think that makes them smart and above the lesser casual fans. Most of them are elitist tools that are biased, self-important diots who desperately crave the attention and recognition on the internet that they can't get in the real world. Ever. They are consumate losers and their entire life can be summed up in two words: Epic Fail.
I believe that instances of people referring to themselves in the third person should be written as such in English.
In the professional subs and dubs of Cowbow Beebop, Edward still uses "Ed" to refer to herself instead of "I". She has a very odd way of talking which illustrates her eccentric nature, and removing it also removes that aspect of the character.
you make good points but some stuff really aren't that big of a deal as you make it. Like in the video before, that 'atmosphere' scene was done well enough, even with 3 lines of text. Clearly people who watch the fansubs are not going to get the same effect as the Japanese viewers.
Difference in translation and localization. If there was some beautiful metaphor that I probably wouldn't understand I'd still rather read it translated then have it replaced with something completely different.
A lot of these notes in your video are gobbledy-gook.
You complain that anime should be "more like the Japanese version" and "how the Japanese see it", and yet, you advise that "sempai" should be translated as "captain", which is completely wrong and false.
You see Mr. Otaking, the internet is comprised of people who think if they write in Japanese they will be noticed as someone who has a through understanding of the Japanese language. These people aren't writing an adaptation to my and many others chagrin, because they can't write an adaptation. Instead we are given a clusterfuck of honorifics and Wikipedia-esque notes that these subbers believe they are entitled to write. An adaptation of a work takes effort, half-assed, subbing much easier.
I think you missed the point. It's about a mile in the opposite direction of the one you went in.
He's saying that if explanations of specific plot elements were not given to the Japanese audience, they should not be given to the fansub audience either. At the same time, translations should be sensible and aim to impart the closest meaning possible to the original language while still making sense to anyone who walks off the street and reads them.
He didn't say "senpai = captain in all circumstances." The point was that for Escaflowne and those characters, Captain was a good way to translate senpai. Other translations would be appropriate for other shows and situations. Translation isn't a 1:1 equivalency game.
@Tsuchirinhon Based on your logic, we should use Japanese words for everything as opposed to English words, and put them on top because that is how Japanese viewers watched them.
Again, if the point is "to give the viewer/reader the same experience as the original audience," then what is the problem with translating Japanese text that appears onscreen as part of the in-show environment? It's providing the English-speaking viewer with the ability to read what the characters are reading, just the way the original Japanese audience could read what the characters are reading.
I like how you said in a previous video that translating is supposed to make it as close to what the original Japanese saw, but then you want to take out entire character gimmicks (talking using their name), which makes it different from what the Japanese experience.
Make up your mind!
RyanSaotome 2 weeks ago
I agree with most of what you say, though I think things such as honorifics should stay a long with translations on signs and such as I like to know what they say, heck even professionals in the anime industry want to have text for signs/writing in the shows but can't in a lot of situations because of subtitle guidelines
joricXYZ 3 weeks ago
@joricXYZ Then the companies should get rid of those obsolete "guidelines" and translate how they want to.
DrunkSamurai 2 weeks ago
Shinigami in Bleach are officially tranlsated to "Soul Reapers", and it freaking fits
krx50 1 month ago
@krx50 No it really doesn't. What fits the most is Death God because that is literally what Shinigami translates to.
DrunkSamurai 2 weeks ago
have you seen any of the kamen rider subs.
justice is done. enough said
seikajigoku 1 month ago
5:53 I totally get what you mean when characters refer to themselves with their name. Why are they speaking in third-person? I know it's supposed to be cutesy in Japan but in America it makes you Dr. Doom or WWF era The Rock.
ElFino013 1 month ago
Swearing and insults = less credibility.
Katingaan 2 months ago
It seems like you put a good bit of work into making these videos. Thank You.
However, your insults detract from your arguments/opinions. It's almost as if you forget this is your opinion. No more or less valid than any other. Your criticism of those that don't share your opinion is disappointing.
donoho 2 months ago
@donoho I personally enjoy the insults and find that they make the video more entertaining.
this video was not made to be super-professional like it's part of a job application. he's not trying to submit a petition to the United States Secretary of Anime Subtitling.
what he's doing is calling out silly people for doing dumb things, and pointing out why it's dumb and why they should stop. it's ok to be insulting and entertaining for a video like this.
bobdonda 2 months ago
I've actually learned a bit of the structure of japanese sentences and the language itself through these kinds of subbings.
kapanihan 3 months ago
simple answer: just being a non-japanese, know it all fanboy. so i agree to this video, they must learn from this.
but i have to disagree about the Miwako part. she really is calling herself in 3rd person (something about being MOE, cute etc.) well just saying...
arsetothem 3 months ago
I have to agree with everything this say, some times I even need to pauze my screen to read all the stuff written on it. Now with digital tv thats possible but not everyone has digital tv or the remote in hand to pauze the freaking show every minute. I don't know if the translater added more english text than what it said or that the japanese simply talked a lot faster. I'm studying Japanese atm and I hope in 3 years I can watch anime and shows in raw.
Quiraj4 3 months ago
"Shinigami" may translate literally to "death god", but the common English term is "Grim Reaper", or just "Reaper". "Grim Reaper" is too negatively loaded to match the connotations the word is supposed to have in Bleach, and "Reaper" on its own is commonly thought of as "short for Grim Reaper", so that'd just carry the same negative ballast.
"Soul Reaper", while made up, is perfectly understandable and carries the meaning "shinigami" is supposed to have in the story. It's a brilliant choice.
Pikachu132 3 months ago
I agree with a lot of what you said, but if the shot was focused on japanese text, I'm sure that for english viewers to get the same experience they should know what it says. Especially if a sign/paper said something significant, and it wasn't spoken :/
RazorDucki 4 months ago in playlist MUST WATCH
I agree with everything in these videos except for the fact that people do speak as the third person in English speaking countries. It's not all anime that refer to them self by their name. Sailor Moon doesn't, but maybe that way of speaking is unique to the characters in that particular story...
fighter4luv 4 months ago
The only issue I have what you've not seemed to have mentioned, is what about when a character referrs to theirself in a playful manner, (usually female) like they're not from this planet, y'know? In a "cutesy" sorta way.
Or catchphrases. I dunno. That said, we all know Lee Chaolan's catchphrase is "Excellent!" though, that's because of his "Engrish". Sometimes I think there should be exceptions.
I prefer word for word translations. Keyword: Translation.
But some "TL Notes" are O.K.
BAlOHAZADO 5 months ago
The anime at 0:35 you complain about all the things begging for the viewers attention, but in this show a ton of jokes are written in the background and the show is a lot less enjoyable when you miss all those jokes seeing as it's a comedy. If I was a Japanese viewer, I would be dealing with the same things regardless, listening to the characters while trying to catch the background writing for jokes.
chao1111 5 months ago
This is stupid! I agree that all the flashy karaoke subs & stupid trivia pop ups have no place. But some words like daimyo & shinigami are best left in Japanese. in case you haven't noticed those words are also used in the English audio dub.
I've seen professional DVD subs that include English text for Japanese charters.
FYI Most westerners can't read Japanese charters. It makes sense that some Japanese charters have a translation provided. Any professional translator would understand this!
Cannablazed 5 months ago 3
@3:40 Yup, we're all racist.
AnarchyMitsukai 5 months ago
I don't like most of the Japanese words left in 'translations' in subtitles. Nowadays, yes, I know what 'shinigami' means. But when I first got into anime, and saw that term, it confused the hell out of me. Same with all the honorifics. The only way I could actually find out what they meant was by asking my friend who was teaching herself Japanese, or when I read the 'translators notes' in the backs of my manga volumes. (Oh and to explain- I encountered anime several months before I read manga.)
EspeonSilverfire2 6 months ago
@EspeonSilverfire2 So do you like the English "translation" as Soul Reaper? Shinigami directly means Death God and it was retarded as hell for Viz to make up their own bullshit term.
DrunkSamurai 5 months ago
@DrunkSamurai I have 3 points to make in response. 1) The translation 'Soul Reaper' is only used in Bleach, and not in any other series e.g. Death Note. 2) That is a professional translation. This documentary is about fan translations and subs, so this is pretty irrelevant. 3) I know for a fact that the Bleach creator himself, Tite Kubo, has said that Soul Reaper is actually closer in meaning to what he intended than Death God or Shinigami. So no, as a Bleach fan, I have no problem with it.
EspeonSilverfire2 5 months ago
@EspeonSilverfire2 1) Which doesn't mean anything. They still used it. 2) The point being they made up their own term for no reason.
3) No that is bullshit. I have repeatedly asked for people to prove he said it and yet they never produce anything showing it. So you do not know for a fact he said it. That thing was bullshit made up by morons on a forum.
DrunkSamurai 5 months ago
@DrunkSamurai I can see that arguing with you is pointless, so I won't bother replying after this. I will concede that perhaps 'for a fact' was too strong a wording. However, I did some research, and Kubo has used 'Soul Reaper' in the latest Bleach book Masked. Check the scans on bleach.wikia (dot ) com/wiki/Bleach:_Official_Character_Book_2_MASKED . It says 'Detailed explanation of Soul Reaper' on one of the original Japanese scans (i.e. untranslated so Viz have not touched them).
EspeonSilverfire2 5 months ago
I actually don't mind if they translate a set of japanese characters on the screen unless the person or persons in the show state what it is than there is no need to translate it. Since fansubs are done by amateurs you can't really expect it to be professional. But yes stop the flashy text.
TheEnd1190 6 months ago
And once again, Otaking thinking is one sided. Take out your knowledge of the Japanese language/culture then give a solution.
However, your solution to a better translated interaction was great which would of helped if you gave more on these examples instead of ranting and insulting. The quotes from expert TL is helpful in your argument but it's void if you yourself don't offer solutions as you did with the re-translated segment.
kantoriX1 6 months ago
I seriously can't understand the part with the third Person at the end. If the character refers to himself in third person, why would you translate it in first person in the sub?
Also, I prefer honorifics like -chan -san -sama -Onee-chan etc way more, since, translated in english, its either sounds stupid, or it gives you a false expression on the characters relationship to each other
Just Imagine a wife refers to her husband with -san. Which wife calls her husband with Mr.X?
oOoOFaKeoOoO 7 months ago
@oOoOFaKeoOoO Agreed with your last sentence. That meaning will be extra tricky to not leave the -san honorific alone unless the viewer is able to understand why she is referring to her husband with the -san prefix.
Which I am fine with leaving such honorific as above intact unless the TL is able to take up the challenge to find a way to express her usage of -san towards her husband without using Mr.
The thinking should always be directed to how a new viewer will see it, not the avid fan.
kantoriX1 6 months ago
Speaking in third person can have important meaning, though. Example: Kanon 2006. Even the professional dub has a girl refer to herself in third person.
TheGreenGentlemon 8 months ago
I'm all for translating japanese written text and signs if they are relevant to the story. It frustrates me when you see nothing but unreadable characters without meaning (original viewers knew what was written there).
Tionois 8 months ago
i don't like the translations like grim reaper for shinigami, escencially beacuse the grim reaper and the shinigamis are not the same, the fansub it's not made for general people, is for the fans of the anime that like to know more about the culture, maybe that's just my opinion,.but maybe the solution for the people that is upset to the work made by fans is buy the original dvd's
IMNME45 8 months ago
Just to point out, in terms of making English viewers understand, grim reaper is a better translation then death god... it is a term understood by many and is used in some profesional fansubs I own.
BenjaySama 9 months ago
@BenjaySama They used Soul Reaper not Grim Reaper. Death God would have been the best way to go because that is the actual translation.
DrunkSamurai 8 months ago
1:22 Not a good example. I'm sure most people got this joke in Japan. Dragon Quest is EXTREMELY popular there.
Grandstra 9 months ago
@Grandstra I don't know. Just because most people here know what final fantasy is doesn't mean a random person will know Bahamut is a highrank summon or Curaga is a healing spell.
eleanore97 7 months ago
@eleanore97 I know that. But there's a difference when a big number of people understand a joke versus a reduced group.
Grandstra 7 months ago
Honorifics and words like Baka have a special meaning to the target audience.
You have to remember the AUDIENCE.
Fansubs ARE NOT aimed at the general public like you seem to think they are.
This series of videos (except the first one) is not really a documentary.
It's your own personal rant aimed at modern day fansubbers.
I agree with you on some points, but are you really going to change the minds of those
who you basically called egotistical, selfish, and lazy?
BuranLyoko 10 months ago
@BuranLyoko they dont have a special meaning to anyone fansubs are SUPPOSED to be for everyone not for weeaboos and otakus that say baka irl
Jayday12345678910 10 months ago
@Jayday12345678910 I'm pretty sure that anime is still for everyone even if fansubbers choose to leave some stuff untranslated.
DrunkSamurai 9 months ago
@BuranLyoko That's the point. Japanese people do manga and anime aimed to Japanese audiences, not the rest of the world.
Grandstra 9 months ago
@BuranLyoko Yeah, I'm sure baka is such an important cultural cornerstone of the Japanese language it must forever go untranslated.
Even if they're not aimed for the mainstream, that's still no excuse for sloppy and amateurish translation. All you're doing is pandering to your audience. Every anime is someone's first, so it needs to be accessible as possible. Claiming it's just for a specialist audience is laughable.
DrJohannFaust 4 months ago
I stopped watching anime because of all the stupid subtitles that make NO SENSE!
punkkitten7X2 11 months ago
1:24 Thank you, I rather search for "Dragon Quest" on the Internet.
joe9320 11 months ago
4:34 sounded like the Filipino word for "Your (ordinal prefix)"
joe9320 11 months ago
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@ 5:56
NOPE.
Nothing annoys me more than when a character says a name but it's translated as "I," "them," or "you."
JostheLynx 1 year ago
I agree 100%.
Haters gonna hate.
My main language is spanish, I've seen dubbed and subbed english movies and guess what: They don't fill them with untranslated words just so it "feels" english.
Karserable 1 year ago
1. ...wait, you oppose superimposition for storefronts and other in-show text? I mean, if it's a serious shot with them staring at a grave, don't you want to be staring at the grave, not at the grass near the grave labelling it as "Tanaka Tarou"?
2. Referring to oneself by one's own name is more common in Japanese than in English, but it still demonstrates oddity and immaturity in a similar way to doing so in English.
Fansubs today have many serious problems, but I'd say these aren't so.
1angelette 1 year ago
No creo que tu punto de vista sea correcto, si quisieramos ver las cosas como lo ven los japoneses, nos bajaríamos las raws y aprenderiamos japonés para tener la misma experiencia televisiva que ellos. La mision de que haya tantas lineas y tantos incrustados es comprender lo que dicen. Es cierto que muchos fansubs no saben hacer que parezca discreto, llenando pantallas y pantallas de texto inutil y desmesurado, pero a esos no se les suele llamar fansubs, si no fastsubs. En ellos si que hay ego.
P48L1N 1 year ago
i don't remember how many times i pressed Space to stop the videos and read translator's note. thanks god i'm looking at this alone in my room, and not with friends...
2:06 "and puts the skill of the translator to a severe test" wow ! even a pro supports my opinion ? i always thought fansubbers are just lazy brains who don't know what a transposition is...
zecle 1 year ago
And I don't really know what you mean by "If you can't translate, you have no business calling yourself a translator."
You mean translating the way you want it to be translated? Sorry, mate, but there's no *true* way to translating. Besides, most "professional" (note that I used the word "most" there) translators use "Americanized" slang and language in their translation. Is that the so-called "proper" translation? How about if one were to use "British" slang? Calamity? The horror? Woe is me?
Pitchguest 1 year ago
@Pitchguest "t there's no *true* way to translating." of course my friend ! there are many way to translate anything according to the richness of its meaning. but the choice is YOURS ! for the sake of legibility and fluence, you should impose the reader YOUR translation, so he can be comfortable with the show. you shouldn't let him decide, let him do the work in your place. because he suddently has to think about the translation and it interrupts his focus on the show.
zecle 1 year ago
@zecle If somebody gets distracted because something is left untranslated then that makes me question their intelligence.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
@DrunkSamurai mmm ? how ? why does the fact that someone suddently cannot help thinking about something ELSE than the show he is watching, because of the translator's lazyness, makes you question his intelligence ?
zecle 1 year ago
@zecle Something else? If there's a translation note its not going to make you think about something else considering it has to do with the show.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
When the fuck does fansubbers write "kisama" and "anata" and whatever the fuck you think they do "most of the time" anyway?! Seriously, what the fuck are you on about? (Read: they DON'T.)
Not ever in my life have I seen a fansubber write "kisama" when they mean "the hell are you." Not ever in my life have I seen them write "anata." Stop being stupid on purpose, stop being so bloody ignorant. It's an old video, but for *fuck's sake*. I feel stupider for just *watching* this piece of shit.
Pitchguest 1 year ago
All according to keikaku
Translator's Note: Keikaku means plan
ShykinArcana 1 year ago
I disagree about your referring-to-self-in-the-third-person thing. It's uncommon but traditionally "weird" characters in English have been doing it for centuries--Smeagol/Gollum from LOTR and Sloth from Goonies are just two examples I can think of right now.
Onslaughttitude 1 year ago
As someone said, agree and disagree. Agree because there are some things that we dont understand if it is translated literaly from japanes. It most be adapted. Agree because sometimes fansubs fill the screen with a lot of things that are not necessary. Disagree because one of the reasons that makes me watch anime is for learn about the japanes culture and unfortunately this is my only way and the official translation loose a lot of things. Fansubs may do a balance. By the way, nice documentary.
papaluxurious2 1 year ago
As for keeping the speaker using their name instead of using I, it DOES happen in English. See: Children. Yes, not many children do it, but you still see it. Though, not having seen the anime before, I can probably guess that Miwako is rather immature and childish for her age.
Translating Zanpaktou is weird. It'd be the same as translating Iaijutsu. Really weird. Oh, and I haven't mention that it'd be more of a mouthful than before.
tatsu751 1 year ago 3
@tatsu751 I agree and disagree!
As I said to the friend (a freelance professional translator) who linked me this documentary, you really need to preserve things like idiosyncratic speech patterns (like this Miwako's) and expressions that are intended by the writer to sound weird... and it's hard to preserve puns in translation, too.
That said, it's usually okay to render "zanpaktou" as "soul-sword" and "iaijutsu" as "fast-draw," unless the technical jargon is really important to the scene...
pardusardens 1 year ago
Karaoke subs in a non-opening/ending sequence is distracting yes. It's also why not many groups do it anymore.
For the SZS, ignoring the translation notes, and the dialogue subtitles, the board jokes are meant to screw with you anyway. Not to mention, not many people can understand what a person is saying while simultaneously reading text. so having a mess of text on screen can technically be used to simulate the experience.
Oh, and explaining to use what japanese food are is stupid.
tatsu751 1 year ago
By changing "Miwako" to "I", the childish speech she uses is lost in translation.
Tanuka 1 year ago
@Tanuka So? In your country is there a special way for "childish people" to say "I"? No? Then it's "I".
Same applies to "nakama", which One Piece translators seem to like to leave in Japanese. It doesn't matter that in Japanese there are more or different ways to say "friend" or "comrade", in my language (Spanish) there are many ways too to say it, like "camarada" (comrade), "amigo" (friend), "colega" (buddy), etc. Just use the goddamn word that most suits it in your language.
Aitorcitillo 1 year ago
@Aitorcitillo That's like saying it's irrelevant to keep even the basic characteristics of a person's distinct speech pattern, like keigo or even Japanese dialects. Even things like that help the creators properly develop and shape a character. I don't see the relation between childish characters talking in third person and the raging wapanism shown by Kaizoku-Fansubs.
Tanuka 1 year ago
Loved everything so far, but I only have one nit pick.
Speaking about oneself in the third person in the English language does happen. Not often, but it does happen. If the entire anime is translated, and something comes up (like an inquiry into why the character speaks in the third person) than their name should be kept as it is. If not, yes, you are absolutely correct.
iOniV2 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
This is bullshit! It sounds to me like Waa Waa (note: Waa Waa means a little baby crying) XD
It just some bitter translator who had run out of clients because people do it for FREE in their FREE time.
Besides Japanese it´s a languaje that can´t be measure by classic translation rules.
ergmog 1 year ago
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ill say that again: those are FASNUBS they are doing it on their free time and we should be gratfull we can see anime easily and freely because of them.
Be ashmed.
maniula12 1 year ago
@maniula12 I am grateful to be able to understand a show I like in another language thanks to their work. I am not grateful to be missing a large part of what the original show had to offer (what is lost in sub-par translation) because the fansubbers subtitle to the level of their personal preference and not to some professional standard.
xjxm 1 year ago 14
@xjxm I think you're talking about official subs and not fansubs.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
@DrunkSamurai Thanks for your reply.
I can see how you'd think that, but I'm actually refering to subtlety of references and speech (not intended to be "gotten" unless personally recognized, like stealth puns or inside jokes) and the chance to focus your attention on the details of the animation instead of competing with reading an unnecessary bombardment of excessive, informational texts, examples shown in the video.
xjxm 1 year ago
@xjxm I must have forgot to respond to this before. I do not think translator notes are ever unnecessary if they are explaining a pun/joke or what something is.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Now, about what i just said i have the perfect proof: when you are brining examples of words in japanses that are saved in the english translation at ther'e original meaning you totally IGNORE that some of the fasnubs just put the editor's comment i talked about so the watchers could understand! totally ignored them and focused on you rubbish.
maniula12 1 year ago
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Now i have to say somthing a bit ugly: Your'e an idiot: first, YOU do not accept the explantions of the fasnubs editor to some of the japanese words, then you do not accept them USE it. lets think together: they are (some of them, because the fasnubs groups are diffrent, some good but some bad) putting those explantions so the watchers can understand the right word in japanse instead of switching it with somthing else without the exact meanning!
maniula12 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Be ashamed.
Do you even know whats a "gigai"?, "Zanpakto"?.
those are objects in the world of the anime you just brought, theres no need to find another mean to them because there is no such thing in the real world, plus, the watchers should know what they mean since those were explained in the anime itself.
maniula12 1 year ago
This guy does realise that Sayonara Zetsubo Sensei gets half it's humour from the random stuff written on the board?
Garnerish 1 year ago
@Garnerish
He does, but I'm doubtful Americans, or most Westerners should watch SZS if they're not gonna get references. Hell, even with all of those notes, many still don't know what the fuck is going in SZS. Some stuff is just not meant for other cultures outside one's own, no matter how hard you try to present it over there.
Chroenix 1 year ago
Anyone know what the Indian movie is? Star Wars, LOTR and Moulin Rouge are pretty recognizable, but this one not so much . . .
EatRune 1 year ago
I dont agree that the subs at 5.57 - 6.45 are wrong.
I mean, if the character is explicitly reffering to himself in the 3d person it display's an egotystical trait of the character. replacing it with "I" would make it sound strange since the she is speaking her name.
keep it as genuine as possible.
Slagdar 1 year ago 4
@Slagdar
not really, speaking of yourself in third person is childish (as children and also many immature shoujo heroines do it), but not necessaryly egotistical. It's obvious she is childish anyway. I mean, look at the pink hair and sugar that emanates from her.
Can't say I agree with everything in this document, but some things are spot-on.
What is genuine? Obviously, you have trouble deciphering the original cultural context (as do I in lot of cases, and as most people who are not japanese)
lunkdragon 1 year ago 3
what is this fast thing?
(watch video till the end)
AndrosForever 1 year ago
When you say that's it's as weird to translate japanese texts appaearing for example on a tumb as translating alien dialtect in Star Wars, you imply that Japenese is some king os alien language that what invented for the purpose of anime and that has no meaning.
Don't you translatea note someone left in subtitles for example ?
menluvmen 1 year ago
@menluvmen
No, he doesn't imply that.
at all.
what he's saying is that adding a seperate line, even for the sake of translation, just looks messy and awkward. just because you disagree with his point doesn't give you the right to put words in his mouth.
and also, just because you, a "pro" subber, wants to see something awful and poorly done, doesn't give you the right to speak for what fans in general want to see.
and also, not all studies come from books. wanna find them? 2 words: google it.
TagerDriver 1 year ago
In French translation of manga, they often leave character referring to themselves in the 3rd person singular using their own name.
menluvmen 1 year ago
Comment removed
menluvmen 1 year ago
In the whole shinigami to deathgod thing, i would say the most natural translation would be "Grim reaper" and some of the older anime dvds I own would agree.
BenjaySama 1 year ago
I would rather go with "Death God", it's simpler and less embarrassing. What a lot of fansubbers don't understand is their language excludes "normal people" from watching anime. It's an awkward, fetishistic, excluding approach and it limits the appeal of anime. Shouldn't the goal be to show people a new, fantastic thing, rather than to create a community focused on circle-jerking over their language? It's self-serving and immature! Translations should be about the art, not your e-peen.
Lobsterkin 1 year ago 30
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Only stupid people would actually get "excluded". I started with subs that had lots of translation notes and attacks yet I didn't get confused once.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
@Lobsterkin Well said.
EcologicalFighter 6 months ago
@Lobsterkin What you don't understand is tha "normal people" don't watch anime.
Grandstra 4 months ago
@Grandstra Because some people don't seem to want them to.
rubino83 3 months ago
@rubino83 No, they don't even watch official dubs.
Grandstra 3 months ago
@Grandstra Clearly a business model you support.
rubino83 3 months ago
@rubino83 Clearly not, is that I gave hope long time ago.
Grandstra 3 months ago
3:20 Do you remember Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 3? They traveled in time and used the word daimyo. No one got confused, just thought "that must be some high social rank".
Grandstra 4 months ago
@Grandstra Because TMNT is a Japanese series that was scribbled over by hobbyist translators.
rubino83 3 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
One thing about Shinigami vs. Death God. Just say no to Soul Reaper which is a term invented by Viz for no goddamn reason. Yes I prefer Shinigami but wouldn't care if it was translated to Death God. Soul Reaper is just terrible and Viz is a shitty company all around.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
Soul Reaper isn't too bad. It's a clever way of saying "Grim Reaper" without making it sound overly negative and evil.
Pikachu132 1 year ago 2
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There was no point to it at all. They should have used Death God which is the correct translation.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
But we don't call the guy who represents death "the Death God" in English, we say "Death" or "the Grim Reaper".
Pikachu132 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
It doesn't matter. Soul Reaper is a shitty term. They made it up for no real reason. Also it's nice to get a lot of thumbs down from ignorant morons who don't know shit.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
Soul Reaper doesn't sound that bad
Though simply saying Reaper on it's own would suffice well enough, wouldn't you say?
Also, you're getting thumbs down for being so abrasive not because people are ignorant
AutumnCrusader 1 year ago
Maybe just that but Death God is still the better term. Actually no. Notice hardly anybody is responding to my comments. That just means they are ignorant and know I'm right.
DrunkSamurai 1 year ago
You just come off as arrogant my good sir
And you have to tailor to content for the culture
So as we don't have "Death Gods" it wouldn't be the most ideal term, Reaper would by the most suitable for a western culture
AutumnCrusader 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
So because people don't reply to your comments you are right?
How?
Maybe nobody replied to your comments because they were inflammatory. Insulting people also has the effect of making people dislike you which could be why you got voted down.
How is Soul Reaper a shitty term? Their job is collecting souls and sending them to soul society or hell.
Also what do you mean by "Maybe just that but Death God is still the better term" it doesn't make sense.
docterjhey 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
OTA KING money money money hater hater hater money money money hater hater hater
starbucksfromhell 2 years ago
Here's a response: Zanpaktou and gigai are neither metaphores nor similes, they are lexemes, translator-kōhai.
Y3llah 2 years ago
One thing I'll never understand in fansubs is the frequent presence of the original lyrics in kanji/hiragana/katakana during openings and endings. Aren't romaji lines enough for karaoke purposes?
ayoama 2 years ago 2
I'm amused that we keep seeing clips of the Death Note fansub even though the *official* sub was heavily literal with subs of letters, signs, etc, all the way up the screen. The manga also retained honorifics. Argument from authority, yo.
vashtijoy 2 years ago
Yeah, the American translation of Death Note wasn't too good. I'm glad we got a better one here in Norway.
Pikachu132 2 years ago
Then I guess the real world of anime subs are deteriorating as well... :P
SaiKoSeSu 1 year ago
I do share the view about the fansubs being a mess sometimes, however like the sign's in the anime like infirmary is quite useful.
Most fansubbers do it right and if a serie is popular than you can still choose the one you like most.
and of course they still do it for free.
Chippychap369 2 years ago 4
I question the need for this childish practice nowadays even more. In the past, we might have needed some of these translator's notes.
Now... inter-webs. Use them.
rubino83 2 years ago
"You stupid motherfucking fucks"
Ohlollol
Sundrownpaw45 2 years ago
I agree with you, but szs do need all the subtitles.
silenthillfan27 2 years ago
I share with most of the opinions here. Notes should only be used for japanese or asian cultural explanations. English subs for "Garbage" stickers should definatedly not be there, it's understandable through vision, however for things like graves it's useful, to understand some things. For the school board parts. Yes, translations shouldn't be there as they serve no purpose in the understanding of progression or dialogue. Finally, we understand maybe u r a pro, but don't get angry at free servic
Bomer48 2 years ago
Very true. If the on-screen text is understandable through context, read out loud, or unimportant fluff, there's no reason to toss some obstructing translation into the middle of the screen. Unless said grave is just shown like that, it's important you understand whose grave it is, and it's not explained or made obvious, of course you go ahead and translate it. If not, leave it be. No one gives a crap about what random family name the artists put on some random gravestone in some random pan.
Pikachu132 2 years ago
I totally agree. I don't know if you've seen the fansubs for .hack//GIFT, but they were terrible. Luckily, I got the DVD, and the official subs by Bandai (which are a million times better).
Okoa 2 years ago 4
Fansubs are the worst when translated by weeaboos. We do not need senpai, san, chan, furo, onii-chan, or any of that other crap. Just translate the damn thing or stop doing it all together.
KanjiiZ 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Japanese honorifics are used to show the degree of respect someone adresses to another.They are essential for a better understanding of whats really happening on the screen.Removing them would result in a poor americanization.
chojinhaiiii 2 years ago
They are also intensly annoyi
KanjiiZ 2 years ago
@chojinhaiiii I hate to see those thumbs down you got, since you're right. Japanese honorifics describe the relationship between two people and sometimes Uncle, Jeezer, Sister cannot achieve the same effect.
Y3llah 2 years ago
but yeah, we don't need the stuff on top with the explanations.
AllenDGM 2 years ago
maybe the fansubbers think that we viewers want to know EVERYTHING that is on the screen, and..... yeah sometimes I like to know whats written on the door seeing as I can't read Calligraphy or Asian characters.
AllenDGM 2 years ago 4
Both Pani Poni and ZSZ need that kind of fansubs
lotusres91 2 years ago
The "Miwako" shouldn't be replaced with I; as it's childish, it should be some theretofore grammatically incorrect derivative such as "me".
ME DIDN'T INVITE HIM TO THE PARTY
Dauntaro 2 years ago
But that doesn't sound childish, just retarded.
LordOmberus 2 years ago 2
To be fair, the way the SZS fansubbers did it was perfectly justifiable except for the blue and pink text at the top of the screen.
Dauntaro 2 years ago
5:02, what anime is that anyway?
windyfx 2 years ago
lol
levitan71 2 years ago
Wow, and I thought only Craig David referred to himself in the Third person :D
atombat 2 years ago
Sorry, let me rephrase that!
I meant to say, 'You are correct', instead of 'you may be right'!
OllieWally1235 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Sorry, you may be right that there are many separated nuances, in French and Germany, but they don't have a medium such as anime that attacts as much attention!
OllieWally1235 2 years ago
"There aren't any good German cartoons out there, so German translations don't have to be filled with untranslated bullshit", is that what you're saying?
Also, there are many great German movies on the market, and "anime" is not a "medium". "Cartoon" is a medium, "anime" is just a label for cartoons from geographical location x.
Pikachu132 2 years ago 26
@Pikachu132 Are German fansubs of anime as crap and stupid as their English counterparts?
joe9320 11 months ago
@Pikachu132 wrong "anime" is the equivalent to saying "cartoon" its the name for the medium but the "anime community" wanted something to make it "different"
Jayday12345678910 10 months ago
The overlaid text is sometimes necessary because the anime itself is complete nonsense, or because if you would translate all the text on screen at the bottom of the screen with the other subtitles, you would get crit by a wall of text.
I especially hate DVD subs where 2 people are talking at the same time, and the subs just go over each other, and you get all messed up having no idea who just said which line.
Tekovince 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'm really not understanding the point of this video. Fansubbers are hobbyists who translate anime for other hobbyists, all who belong to a niche group who like Japanese culture and want to see these anime with their original references. They don't want similes and metaphors translated, they'd rather understand them in the cultural context. They don't want honorifics translated, they want to enjoy the subtleties of Japanese interaction.
supernesreviews 2 years ago
all of those theories on translation are only for professionals. fansubs originally were made out of love for the genre, not to try and please the audience. they aren't professionals, so you shouldn't have the same expectations. if you play a pickup game of basketball at the park, you don't expect the people there to play like NBA players.
GunterJPN 2 years ago
"not to try and please the audience"
What an utterly moronic thing to say. And yet, I won't argue aaginst it.
rubino83 2 years ago 2
Adios*
*Translator's note: Adios is short for "vaya con dios" which means "go with God". It is used as a traditional Spanish farewell. However, since it has no direct English equivalent it cannot possibly be translated
strizzuth 2 years ago 4
I find the referring-to-oneself-by-name thing highly amusing when it comes to fanfiction! Particularly when non-Japanese characters do it. For instance, in a lot of Hetalia fanfiction, Italy often refers to himself by name and rarely uses "you" even though he's Italian, NOT Japanese.
That is to say, I agree with you.
potterfreak0515 2 years ago
Ok, I understand how stupid the translation of songs DURING action scenes to clutter up the page, but I do find it helpful to have some translation under the titles of doors for English people to know what is behind the door. I mean it isn't as annoying to look at, but it's there and it doesnt bother me
Excalibur01 2 years ago 4
This is like when I first found out how 4Kdis ruined One Piece... Only this time if feel slightly stupider...
Rubberman202 2 years ago
wow.very intersting.Learning new things now. Now to part 5
DarkShinigamiX3 2 years ago
He missed the point with miwako.
noushisubs 2 years ago
Yeah, that was the one thing I kind of disagreed with. I've seen people refer to themselves in the third person in English.
Rubberman202 2 years ago 5
I'm a fansubber how can I make my final product as annoying as possible?
Joe402 2 years ago 9
Do not translate anything. Just plast over it in japanese and then translate it on a "note" right in top of the untraslated text,.
Bonus points if your translation actually wonders and ponder.
For instance:
"In this scene the character says X. I find it amusing because it reminds me when my grandmother did X and such"
OdaNoOwari 2 years ago
Gracias*
*Translator's note: Gracias means thanks in Spanish.
Joe402 2 years ago
Anime fansubbers and japanophiles are the kind of people who use terms like "one-chan" and think that makes them smart and above the lesser casual fans. Most of them are elitist tools that are biased, self-important diots who desperately crave the attention and recognition on the internet that they can't get in the real world. Ever. They are consumate losers and their entire life can be summed up in two words: Epic Fail.
Fuck them.
Azurani 2 years ago 42
Win. Japanese is cool, but when you leave "Oneeee-chann" or "Desu neeee???" it doesn't sound as cute as people want it to be.
BrandnEwkid 2 years ago 3
I believe that instances of people referring to themselves in the third person should be written as such in English.
In the professional subs and dubs of Cowbow Beebop, Edward still uses "Ed" to refer to herself instead of "I". She has a very odd way of talking which illustrates her eccentric nature, and removing it also removes that aspect of the character.
AdrianMagnus 2 years ago 2
Very good video! 5.45 - What's that?
Zlote 2 years ago
"Teki wa kaizoku" or "Galactic Pirates" as it was known over here.
OtaKing77077 2 years ago
It's ALL down to whether the intended audience actually cares about the language or rjust what theyre watching
If theyr eintested in the Language, it needs the san and all that, if they dont, it doesnt, simple as that
ShinraArmy 2 years ago
Do you have spell check?
DrakkhenToku 2 years ago
nope, do you have something to actually contribute in your comment?
ShinraArmy 2 years ago 4
you make good points but some stuff really aren't that big of a deal as you make it. Like in the video before, that 'atmosphere' scene was done well enough, even with 3 lines of text. Clearly people who watch the fansubs are not going to get the same effect as the Japanese viewers.
Demonmack0 2 years ago
Difference in translation and localization. If there was some beautiful metaphor that I probably wouldn't understand I'd still rather read it translated then have it replaced with something completely different.
JackDander 2 years ago
1:00 lol
Meteor465 2 years ago
A lot of these notes in your video are gobbledy-gook.
You complain that anime should be "more like the Japanese version" and "how the Japanese see it", and yet, you advise that "sempai" should be translated as "captain", which is completely wrong and false.
S'pretty stupid garbage.
Tsuchirinhon 2 years ago
He is the captain of the running team, so she calls him captain.
What's so hard to understand?
OtaKing77077 2 years ago
You see Mr. Otaking, the internet is comprised of people who think if they write in Japanese they will be noticed as someone who has a through understanding of the Japanese language. These people aren't writing an adaptation to my and many others chagrin, because they can't write an adaptation. Instead we are given a clusterfuck of honorifics and Wikipedia-esque notes that these subbers believe they are entitled to write. An adaptation of a work takes effort, half-assed, subbing much easier.
TOKAROTASTIC 2 years ago 7
I think you missed the point. It's about a mile in the opposite direction of the one you went in.
He's saying that if explanations of specific plot elements were not given to the Japanese audience, they should not be given to the fansub audience either. At the same time, translations should be sensible and aim to impart the closest meaning possible to the original language while still making sense to anyone who walks off the street and reads them.
Siendra 2 years ago
He didn't say "senpai = captain in all circumstances." The point was that for Escaflowne and those characters, Captain was a good way to translate senpai. Other translations would be appropriate for other shows and situations. Translation isn't a 1:1 equivalency game.
Zalis116 2 years ago 17
Comment removed
anti4kids2000 1 year ago
@Tsuchirinhon Based on your logic, we should use Japanese words for everything as opposed to English words, and put them on top because that is how Japanese viewers watched them.
anti4kids2000 1 year ago
I love it, btw way. Does anyone know of a good video hosting site where I can find Ghost in the Shell? The first movie
Suorrel 2 years ago
Manga Entertainment recently did a DVD re-release with a sweet slip cover, it's only about $15. I suggest buying it.
TOKAROTASTIC 2 years ago
Again, if the point is "to give the viewer/reader the same experience as the original audience," then what is the problem with translating Japanese text that appears onscreen as part of the in-show environment? It's providing the English-speaking viewer with the ability to read what the characters are reading, just the way the original Japanese audience could read what the characters are reading.
IamestheCoP 2 years ago