I don't know if you're right about this. Sometimes you can't avoid real life fights. When it's them or you, and you choose not to fight, it's gonna be them.
Although you, you have a family so I guess you'd want to keep your head down. That's fair enough.
But I fear a big internal war is coming in the west. The overclass 1% and their supporters against people who are tired of being screwed over and tyrannized into oblivion by then.
I mean sure, I acknowledge that sounds like crazy extremist talk right now. But I see how in my country the right-wing bastards dismantle our society. And how they do that in EVERY society. I've seen over the last 30 years and before that how the rich worldwide steal more money and power and influence and abuse it more and more.
And they won't give it up peacefully. (Although some rich people don't like the system either, the ones in power won't give it up.)
But you know when that fight comes in... probably a few decades, barring a huge turnaround I don't expect. When the situation has degraded into a big banana republic and people stop taking it anymore.
Then I don't think they will be wrong to fight back for their honest hard-earned slice of the pie. Against rich people who buy fifth yachts over their back as they lose their healthcare, house and what not more.
Some fights NEED to be fought, and one IS coming I fear.
"it doesn't matter who the aggressor is, just that there is continued escalation" how does that make sense? if there wasn't an aggressor there wouldn't be escalation, the aggressor is the escalator. What matters is how you respond to an aggressor, by letting them bully you and take whatever they want from you? (it is the nature of aggressors to continue their aggression if unabated) or fight for your rights.... to paaaartaaay... and freedom and other good things.
The Internet is anything but fragile. Networks come and go, sites come and go, people come and go, organizations come and go, content comes and goes, technology comes and goes... but the Internet abides.
Meh, either way is good for me... If anyone tries to harm TF or Phil or any Rationalist on YT, they'll have a war on their hands... Not just a figurative one... A real one... Go ahead... We'll kill every single one of you...
what happens on YT stays on YT? Now is only that where true, it should be but its not. And we are far to lax with those that take it off YT or allow others to do it for them.
Most religious people are babies that begin to play the "hurt feelings" card if the arguments get tough. Or come up with unjustified real world consequences. But most of the time they start crying. That makes me feel bad despite knowing that I am not the cause of it but this childhood indoctrination by parents and priests.
@C0nc0rdance TF has a large audience and he has a responsibility to be absolutely certain of things before he unleashes 150k people on a person. Ali has received death threats, the fbi called on him and other harassments for something he clearly did not do. His video that TF keeps playing was not a death threat and the kid isn't a terrorist, yet TF continuously portrays him that way. Ali tried multiple times to reason with him and TF laughed in his face. He deserved to have his job called.
@AmetReloads I don't know what a terropansy is. Go through DFs videos starting with the one TF so famously quote mined. You will see that he attempted to open a line of dialog with him in an open forum and said that he would be willing to retract his statement if TF clarified what he meant. What was the qualifier of "we will send you to the god you wish you knew"? If you or anyone kills an innocent Muslim or non-Muslim then Muslims and their non-Muslim allies will send you to the god you ...
@christo930 So your interpretation of "awaken a sleeping giant who is hostile" is "kill"? Even if that made any sense, which it doesn't, thunderf00t's "sleeping giant" was simply a reference to secularists standing up to attacks and bullying by Islamists. Haha, I'm guessing dawhy's paranoid delusional personality leads him to believe that thunderf00t literally has a sleeping giant that he's planning to unleash on Mecca like king kong lol.
@kyebean No, he was saying that if some maniac tried to perform a genocide on anyone, that that person or people would be sent to the god they wish they knew. It was a poor choice of words, but TFs attacks have become more and more overt and open. It is clear that he despises Muslims, not Islam.
@christo930 "Thunderf00t and people who think like you, if you ever, ever try to awaken some sort of sleeping giant that is hostile to any muslim or non-muslim innocent person, as mandated in the KOARAAN, and the true interpretation of the Sharia that all true muslims and the majority of the muslims in the world share, we muslims the servants of *creepy gibberish* and our non muslim allies, will send you to the god you wish you knew." Where's the part about maniacs committing genocide?
@kyebean First of all, notice the qualifier. Second, notice how he says non-Muslim innocent people and Muslims and their non-Muslim allies... Third, did you actually watch TFs whole video DFs whole video and then the next video he put out called "Caution: Scary Muslim At Work" found at /dawahfilms#p/u/41/0ZllAj6_rWg on youtube? He took TFs initial video as a threat of genocide and that is when ali made his famous video, then he tried to open up a dialog with the for-mentioned video.
@christo930 I've watched all TF's videos about this and none could be construed as threat of genocide by anyone other than a complete retard. Quote me TF's threat of genocide.
@kyebean "For your continued existence is entirely at the discretion and of the good will of the giant and that is all that stands between you're being granted continued existence" from "South Park vs Islam" 4:40
Dawahfilms, who I entirely disagree with, then posted a video called "Caution: Scary Muslim at Work" Where he asks for clarification and agrees to post a retraction if TF would only clarify the meaning of those words. He invited TF to a civil discussion and TF just ignored it..
@christo930 My interpretation of TF's statement is that those who embrace science and de-emphasize religion tend to be much more powerful because of their access to the advanced society, technology and weaponry that result from science. That's not a threat of genocide, he's just pointing out that religious extremists are attempting to bully, terrorize and control people who are much more powerful than them. So, TF didn't take him up on his offer to talk, it doesn't mean he "despises Muslims".
@kyebean Honestly, I am not a TF hater and am a fellow atheist, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to ask for further clarification on a statement like "you're being granted continued existence". DF did kind of over-react initially, but I didn't construe it as a threat due to the qualifier. But what really disappointed me was when DF responded with a plea for dialog and a willingness to give TF the benefit of the doubt on that statement and TF ignoring his invitation to dialog..
@christo930 TF may have talked to him in private, who knows? I can understand someone being reluctant to have anything to do with someone who is threatening them. TF basically said, watch out nutbags, the people you're messing with are more powerful than you. Then DF said if you are indirectly hostile to an innocent person, me and my deluded buddies all around the world will kill you (they actually have killed people recently, simply for insulting their imaginary friend).
@kyebean DF hasn't said that nor has TF, so we can chalk that one up. What TF said could easily be construed as a threat and should have at least communicated to his subs that DF wanted to open a line of dialog but he considers that a waste of time.
@christo930 What's inaccurate about my paraphrasing? I'm one of his subs and I don't care that he didn't communicate that. It's entirely his prerogative who he wants to talk to. He made an 8.5 minute video entitled "The Sleeping Giant" to clarify what he meant. He has never given any indication that he despises any person who believes Islam. He has never threatened genocide. Even if he did, anyone who has watched his videos would be an absolute moron to take it seriously.
@christo930 If you're going to post a link, at least make it one that works. I've tried searching that link on Dawah's channel, I've tried appending it to the youtube address, and I've tried googling it. None of those work. Perhaps it's a made-up link?
godwin's law : all debates will devolve into arguments and continue to devolve to a point of nazi anlogys at wich point the side that takes said position has lost. althow i dont know how well it applies to islamic extreamists (not implicating moderate muslims) that would be perfactly happy waring swasticas and replasing "mit got unst" with alla, killing jews, gays, and anyone they feel dose not fit into there idea of a pure race...or am i wrong?
This is why 70%+ are religious nuts in this country. All they have to do is get upset and the atheist go back in the closet to keep the peace. I'm sick of it. See Sam Harris for a quick education.
c0nc0rdance: In addition to being one of the most rational voices on youtube, you are also by FAR the wizest! You are a leading star, and a role model for so many!
Second correction: it appears the deaths per year by drunk driving in the United States outstrip those caused by terrorism only by a factor of about fifty -and that's if we only count the "casualties" as those ~17,000 who outright killed, not the ~275,000 who are merely injured. Of course, to say 400 American civilians have been killed per year by terrorism is quite like saying there has been no global warming trend since 1998 (in fact it would be a far more egregious error if taken seriously).
@polymath7 The problem being that we are not simply counting deaths, but trying to evaluate what is an appropriate responce to a person who argues that killing people is a way to convince them of truth. The moral difference between driving drunk and making such arguement should be obvious to you. If it is not, I don't know how to help you.
All credit to you for taking this approach, I must say, a class act.
It's important to have a balanced perspective on this issue ! You make so many good points that I can't pick just one to praise. Excellent stuff C0nc0rdance, and very well spoken as usual.
Sorry, I think you are advocating giving in to people who will not hesitate to see you beheaded. You are afraid of them, as am I, but if we ignore them they will kill us.
This is a hysterically brainless statement by which you ought to be deeply embarrassed, unless you consider anonymity sufficient palliative to assuage the sting of making a fool of yourself.
Who exactly are "they"? Muslims simpliciter? Those who since 2001 have killed fewer American civilian deaths than drunk driving -by a factor of roughly 100?
@polymath7 No, I will not. They are people who use threats and violence as arguements. They may be facists or the people who went after Michel Moore after his Oscar speach. He had to hire people to protect him. I hate all religion and all superstition equally, but the people who threaten to cut your head off if you don't convert...yeah my head is less empty than yours when I don't simply play the odds of being hit by a drunk or attacked by a Muslim. Both happen and both are not tolerable.
Dawah stepped way over the line in his actions YT is an open forum but to extend that to someones personal life to threaten them, their job or personal life is akin to stalking he should leave YT. There is no justification for his actions if TF has done something unlawful DF should have called the police not stalk someone and gather data on their personal lives.
@MsOneiroi77 The problem as far as I'm concerned is that for example, TF got Dawah problems with the FBI implying that he was a terrorist. And also he states that such information was given by a former TF's friend, and that he's not the only one who has it. I do not try to defend him, I just want people to know both sides. I think BOTH of them stepped way over and made stupid desitions.
@Ottmar555 yes its gotten out of hand, really grown men who should know better acting out grudges and squabbles its like watching a reality tv soap opera. It was TFs fans that alerted the FBI to DW but still to retaliate and use doc information like that is just as bad. if they get worked up its time to walk away from YT and do something productive with their lives.
The internet is real life-there is no line, no "what happens on youtube stays on youtube" rule. We All Know This!
Folks seem to excuse using the internet for harassment, defamation, humiliation of users using their real faces who say or do something someone doesn't like and insist it is NOT fair to seek to fight irl to stop them. And who imagined this is to be a rule? It isn't one.
PPL need to stop doing shit on the internet they can't get away with irl! The internet IS real life. ...cont
So Tf00t has been *waaaaayyy* out of line a Long Time here. But DF is also out of line here - and not because he contacted Tf00t's employer. (People write to complain about controversial figures who in universities and research institutions All The Time! PZ Myers? James Watson? Bill Ayres? Ward Churchill? Richard Sternberg? Angela Davis! William Shockley!)
DF went too far cuz he used TF's real life joblessness to humiliate, harass him on youtube-which isn't ok irl either.
Why do you speak like a preacher in many of your videos (this one particularly)? Your subs react accordingly when you do this, and it’s frightening. Your subs are human beings, who are very persuadable. When you speak like this, they go into drone mode. There's something psychological and fundamental going on here. People need leaders, and you are taking on a role. But you are speaking for science, and science doesn’t operate this way. It’s dishonest, and I think you should stop.
It's a real shame you didn't post this preachy pearl clutching sermon about conduct when VFX was being publicly pilloried in what could have been handled in a quiet and more amicable manner. I also don't recall your 'Ghanid-esque' sentiments when DF was being fucked with either. TF, DPR, et al set the code of conduct and the rules and now that the sword is pointed at TFs throat all of a sudden it's "King's X, King's X!". You want to harp about conduct, you should start with your own
Taking in mind your support of extrajudicial killings of american citizens, im sure its difficult to digest that some people reserve their legal rights and use lawful methods for protecting their rights.
You drunkyard fool, who cares whose necks it is?
Stalking, harassment are still crimes, no matter whose neck it is..
Lets not pretend though,that it isnt your pathological hate for Tf, that is driving your comments.
OH MY GOD. enough of this stupid youtube drama, every one of my channels i subscribe to are making videos related to this stupid drama about this girl, DMCA this, DMCA that, I DONT CARE AT ALL about any of this. just make the videos that people subscribed to you for. you are just giving more attention to these rediculous people. all these videos are about being offended and youtube comments. none of this matters..nobody is being harmed by any comments on youtube. THIS IS THE INTERNET - GROW UP
Yeah let's take the anonymity away from gay Muslims who are "hating on Islam" when they try to reform it, or the freedom fighters in monarchy's all over the world who are "hating on the government" when fighting for democracy. You're either an idiot or haven't thought through the consequences of what you said. Most controversial speech is hate from someones perspective.
I also can't see how Dawah thinks announcing to the world what he did is doing himself any favors. Whether or not it's actually the case, he comes across as a fanatically embittered stalker who spends night and day plotting revenge against Tf00t.
I wanted to make a video on how messages get lost when either side stops being intellectual and logical, and starts getting emotional and personal. I think this video sums up the necessary steps in a more political and community way.
Doesn't it seem a bit odd to flip out over what someone says about you online? When people freak out over stuff they see on YouTube, I just laugh. What makes it funny is that 99.9% of the time the people in dispute have never met and have silly names to boot.
"Chihuahua94355 called me a monkey! That little fucker! I'm going to go to his house and kill him!"
Seriously, people. Go outside. Kiss a girl. Write the great American novel.
@thebigJ1er I just checked his channel and the offending video. After some dramatic self-righteous ranting about Thunderf00t's take on the Potholer/amenakin thing, he lets the viewer know that he mailed colleagues of thunderf00t his YT videos. Basically, he's honestly admitting to being a doc dropping douchebag.
@Holammer What's funny about it is that he's assuming that they 1. give a shit or 2. haven't seen it. Like YouTube is a secret place where you can't see things unless someone shows it to you. He also plays the "wounded religious folk" card. "What will the MUSLIMS say when they see your videos?!
You're speaking about someone who doesn't have a whole lot else in his life, nor the emotional maturity to deal with conflict without letting it consume him.
The other 'someone' is just really, really ignorant about actual real, living breathing everyday Muslims.
I think this really is quite a pertinent video, and I hope some people take note.
Wait... did I hear you talking about the internet and then say "for this fragile world community to survive.."
ROFLCOPTER!
Come ON man, do flamewars and trolls cause your wifi to explode? Do they make your modem pack it's bag and go fishing? Do fibre optics ignite? The worldwide internet "community" has guts and blood and is here to stay, rules of conduct immerge naturally and are community driven but even without them, the internet will never die.
I'm sorta a part of 2 communities here on YT. One is the freethinkers/atheist/left wing style community, the other is the miniature war gaming community.
Y'know, things like Warhammer 40,000 or Waermachine.
With the latter community, there's no false DMCAing, no huge wars between channels and very, very little trolling. As a community, I prefer the wargaming one, it's a lot more peaceful, and honestly? If the whole internet took a leaf outta that book, it'd be a much better place.
@Vehementi And it's not like wargaming has no differing views, either. For example, one person might prefer Warmachine and can't stand 40k, the other muight be the total opposite, or one person might prefer Space Marines, whilst the other can't stand Space Marines and loves Tyranids.
We can get into huge debates about tactics, army lists, painting, everything, but ultimately, it's all very peaceful.
As for death threats themselves, I would really love to see an analysis done of who makes them and who gets them and why, and with a section dealing with death threats made on YouTube.
... in a merciless rebuttal. DF responded by making not so vague death threats, as if being a Muslim entitled him to do that, and as for tone, he was rather sanctimonious, and that never works in debate. TF is now able to rub DF's own words in his face, so when your own words are your undoing, what is the poor guy to do but claim some sort of persecution? That, or retreat.
The tone of one's statements in a debate is important and will affect the direction it takes. But the tone also has to match the import of the point made, and at least match the vigor of the opposing side. There are many voices in this religion/science debate and we need to hear from them all. But we need to deal more with the content than the emotion in its delivery. In this debate the poor Muslim boy got his ass handed to him by TF who actually listened to DF and used his own words...
I believe we all have the capacity to be nice, except the killers of our society, thats wrong, mankind, I have been all over the world, & people are just wonderful, regardless of where you go, 3rd world, in the mountains, I may not know how to speak there language, but I know I can always make them laugh,&enjoy the moment together, they may not have enough to eat but they always have enough to share,& its not polite to say no thank you, cause you know they do not have enough,
that was beautifully said. I wonder tough how that would go over at lets say a KKK really in the south, or a poor Italian neighborhood in the 60tys like Williamsburg , Brooklyn, NY or Irish bar in hells kitchen, Manhatten during saint Patrick day around happy hour, or just some plain young people on a packed bus lets say dixie highway, 5 pm mid week, it always sounds good, & I am sure it would be a wonderful thing, I know personally, we all want that idea, but a bikers conventions in S cal hmmm
Personally, I think the key is to treat online fora like the real world as far as possible. I've travelled a lot and people are generally agreeable everywhere. It's obviously easier to criticise someone at a remove, and formulate a response to a criticism too. But why do people here find it so hard to agree to disagree? Politeness costs nothing. It's also less entertaining, unfortunately. The demanding road is also the road less travelled.
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Mahatma Gandhi, (attributed).
I think that people are entitled to express a personal opinion and to have that opinion criticized by those who disagree. It's the essence of free speech. But deliberately drawing that opinion to the attention of specific people in the hope of negative retribution is not just overstepping the line of "fair criticism", it's catapulting it.
@ferrett78-But deliberately drawing that opinion to the attention of specific people in the hope of negative retribution is not just overstepping the line of "fair criticism", it's catapulting it.
What do you mean by "negative retribution". I think it's certainly legitimate to bring attention to someone who is doing wrong (filing false DMCA's for example) in order to shame them so they might either see the error of their ways, or at least to discourage them, or others from doing likewise.
@TheNakedAtheist I agree. If the original comment is in violation of the law, bringing it to the attention of the authorities is being responsible. However, if the original comment or action is not illegal, bringing it to the attention of people the commenter is associated with in real life, in the hopes that some will be offended by it and take action, is not. It's (literally) childish. Even if you find the original comment personally offensive.
@ferrett78-I cannot agree with the actions of those who reported Dawah to the authorities
While I agree he shouldn't have been reported to authorities. I couldn't say I disagree with the actions of those who reported him unless I knew what motivated them. If they honestly thought Ali was a threat then they were right to take that action. If they did it to harass then it was obviously wrong. That's assuming of course that it actually happened, and I've seen no evidence that it did.
@TheNakedAtheist "While I agree he shouldn't have been reported to authorities. I couldn't say I disagree with the actions of those who reported him unless I knew what motivated them."
This is why I included "unless his actions were illegal and warranted it" in my comment. To be honest, I havent really looked into the situation that much. While I get in my fair share of disagreements, I do try to avoid what I feel is unnecessary drama on YouTube.
@TheNakedAtheist And in that regard, I cannot agree with the actions of those who reported Dawah to the authorities (unless his actions were illegal and warranted it), nor can I agree with the actions of Dawah in mailing TFs faculty. It reminds me of that one kid in the playground who calls another kid a "bad name", but who runs to every teacher they can find in the hope of finding one that will listen, when the other kid calls him one back.
I will say in this channel the same thing I have said in other channels on the matter. How something is said can be as important as what is being said. Unnecessarily swearing, rudeness and crudeness add nothing of value to a conversation. They demean intelligence and the forum being represented. Basic courtesy is a requirement not just of Utube but of life.
I'm sorry C0nc0rdance but the fact that you mention DahwahFilm's 'intrusion' as you called it and do not refer toThunderf00t's interference shows that the Demanding Road (turning your cheek) is biased idea.
@langsense I'm not familiar with the drama but did thunderfoot doc-drop, make real life threats or otherwise take youtube drama out of youtube into the real world? I think that's the point of this vid.. youtube will always have vids that are bigoted, hateful and/or offensive, but it's when someone escalates the conflict by taking it into the real world that they've crossed the line.
Apparently TF, either himself, or his rabid followers reported Dahwah to the FBI, several times. Therefore, affecting his life. If you are willing to attack someone online, with slander or hate, then you should face the consequences. There are too many people who use the internet to bully, to spread hate and fear.. and they do it with impunity. TF, I believe has become one of those unfortunately and he needs to see that it has consequences.. in real life.
And your point is? If DF had never made a video that could have been interpreted, or misinterpreted as a threat then the FBI would never have had a reason to investigate him. Are you seriously implying that the FBI investigating him (IF they actually did) is somehow TF's fault because he brought more attention to that video than DF would have liked, or they investigated him based on TF's characterization of the video? lol
And if someone had shot TF because they had believed Ali's mischaracterization of TF's "Sleeping giant" video as a call for genocide against Muslims would he have been responsible for that response?, or would you have said it was TF's fault for not expressing himself more clearly? OR would you have rightly blamed the person who shot him.
@TheNakedAtheist "OR would you have rightly blamed the person who shot him."
I'll take door number 3. People have a responsibility for their own actions. As I said earlier, while you may personally disagree with others or find their comments offensive, it is irresponsible to take vengeful action because of it. You are free to express a contrary opinion, and to contact authorities if the situation warrants it. False DMCAs or mailbombing a faculty would be an example of an UNwarranted reaction.
Nothing happened to TF as far as I'm aware.. but DF had his life threatened and was reported to the FBI. I did not see or hear TF tell his viewers to stop doing this.
It is strange to hear the same arguments from atheists that Right Wing pundits such as Beck or O'Reilly have used. Also, the same hate and vitriol.
@langsense-Nothing happened to TF as far as I'm aware.. but DF had his life threatened and was reported to the FBI.
TF likely had his life threatened far more from religious extremists as a result of DF characterizing him as a bigot calling for the genocide of Muslims than DF was threatened by atheists, and another assumption to add to ferrett78's list is that DF was contacted by the FBI at all. AND if he was you don't know whether legitimate concern was the motivation.
@langsense-It is strange to hear the same arguments from atheists that Right Wing pundits such as Beck or O'Reilly have used.
Guilt by associated fallacy. E.g. As a vegetarian Hitler made the same arguments against eating meat as modern vegetarians make, does that make them wrong? Obviously anti-theistic sentiment directed at Muslims is going to resonate with, and and share in common some points and arguments used by people who are anti-Muslim.
Unfortunately the response to that commonality by many on the left is to avoid criticizing Islam at all, or to avoid criticisms (no matter how reasonable) that happen to share that commonality with right wing assholes. We see this in other cases as well. Right winder criticize immigration and use it as hate. For example "the Mexicans are taking your jobs". So the left either supports, or says nothing about immigration for fear of being identified as a right wing bigot.
When in fact immigration is a problem. The influx of immigrants allows the rich to pay slave wages for certain Jobs, and then claim "Americans won't do those jobs" when in fact they would if they paid a decent wage which they won't as long as they have an immigrant work force.
As you said 'misinterpreted' .. I watched both Dahwahs and TF's videos and TF definitely misinterpreted what DF said.. whether deliberately or not is another matter.
Actually, no, it's not another matter. TF and his minions were the only ones who saw what DF said as a threat.. and either TF is not as intelligent as I thought him to be or he deliberately made out that DF was threatening him. I believe the latter.
In the context of DF mischaracterizing "the sleeping giant" video as a bigoted call for genocide it is not unreasonable to percieve that video as a thinly veiled death threat. It's only if you believe DF honestly misunderstood that video, and his mischaracterization was unintentional that it can bee seen otherwise. Do I think TF believe it wasn't? I can't say. In any case he had just been accused of being a genocidal bigot by DF, so I can't say I blame him for portraying Ali's
...video as being a death threat in retribution. The only reason Ali is seen by some as the victim in that exchange is because TF has more subs, and thus won the flame war, AND because he allegedly was reported to the FBI. If TF had been murdered by Muslim extremists as a result of Ali's mischaracterization the situation would be entirely different, and Ali would be seen almost universally as the villain.
@TheNakedAtheist "The only reason Ali is seen by some as the victim in that exchange is because TF has more subs, and thus won the flame war, AND because he allegedly was reported to the FBI."
No, DawahFilms is often seen the victim because in a video he apologized for his stupid misinterpretations of the "sleeping giant" message and wishe to recant what he said, and yet Thunderf00t continues to call him a terrorist who supports death threats despite knowing full well the truth of the matter.
@langsense That's not cool at all (contacting the FBI etc). I'm not a huge fan of either of them (though I admit I liked TF's anti-creationism science vids) so I'm not shedding any tears. Suffice to say it is a pity that so few people these days can disagree but still be mature about it.
A+ This is a very touching video and rational. Thanks for making it. I was watching the Dawahfilms and Thunderf00t vids and was pretty upset on how it was handled.
I am with TF in his defense of science and reason and his utter contempt for the crap put out and the nastiness done in the name of religion. I applaud him for being as forceful and scathing as the situations he has addressed warrant, while also showing respect for genuinely peaceful xtians and Muslims. I also note that DF's responses to TF criticism of the murderous elements of Islam has been to confirmed TF's assertion. In other words, DF seems to need profession help.
When debate turns to or is an excuse for insults and/or threatening behavior and possible physical violence than it's the end of the road. You can insult if it's humourous or done with elan, people should learn to live with the words they hear and say.
Dawah is an asshole, and that is clear from his videos. He may pretend to get along or to be civil at times but his vehemence makes it clear that he would slit your throat for your words.
I'm actually siding with Dawah in this drama, but the semi doc-dropping was uncalled for, as well as his using bisexual as an insult. As well as some other things. I'm not a big fan of either person, tbh, but I will watch the drama from a distance with amusement.
@Atalantius-as well as his using bisexual as an insult
Did he really? I couldn't sit through 10 minutes of Dawahhh-ing, but in light of that I'm even more surprised that at least one you-tuber I ordinarily respect made supportive comments on it. Not that his doc dropping threats alone aren't enough reason to find his actions reprehensible.
@TheNakedAtheist Well, he kind of did. Essentially, he said that Tf00t's bisexual 'druggie'(which I guess is common knowledge, seeing as she made that video public) girlfriend left him for another girl, then went "WOW! WOW!". I wasn't impressed by that. Still, I think Tf00t's been unfair to him, and unfair with his islam videos in general, but that's neither here nor there, I guess. I just don't think it's as a black/white issue as some think, and am leaning towards dawah kind of. ^^
That may well be, but that in no way justifies blackmail, and threats of potential doc dropping to get him to remove video's, and retract what he said. If the FBI thought Ali's "death threat" video was serious enough to warrant an investigation (and that seems to be his biggest gripe) that's Ali's fault, not TF's.
@TheNakedAtheist I don't think it was a death threat. But let's not get into that. Oh, I agree with you, it doesn't justify doc dropping or blackmail at all. He did talk about the FBI thing in his video though, which, like him or not, you may want to check out. And it's not really his fault, since the main reason (apparently), was a number of Tf00t's subscribers contacting the FBI themselves. That's not tf00t's fault either, mind you.
It really doesn't matter who did, or didn't contact the FBI (assuming of course that anyone did, and that he was actually contacted). Before they would have done anything they would have looked at the video in question. and determined for themselves whether they thought it justified any action on their part.
@TheNakedAtheist What did Dawahflims do? She has removed her comment from TF's channel (I searcher :)) But you have me curious as heck. PLEASE explain. Pretty please!!!
Could someone fill me in on what Dawahfilms did and what happened with that drama? And the potholer/amenakin seemed to be getting on with each other civilly, are you just referring to the trolling by anti-muslim bigots?
In response to TF's latest video about Amanakin DF is blackmailing him, and threatening to contact his employers, or drop his docs if he doesn't remove the videos TF has made that he doesn't think were fair. TF's response to those threats are on his blog, and it's hilarious. lol
I don't know if you're right about this. Sometimes you can't avoid real life fights. When it's them or you, and you choose not to fight, it's gonna be them.
Although you, you have a family so I guess you'd want to keep your head down. That's fair enough.
But I fear a big internal war is coming in the west. The overclass 1% and their supporters against people who are tired of being screwed over and tyrannized into oblivion by then.
And those fuckers won't give it peacefully.
TheSkunkCat 3 months ago
@TheSkunkCat
I mean sure, I acknowledge that sounds like crazy extremist talk right now. But I see how in my country the right-wing bastards dismantle our society. And how they do that in EVERY society. I've seen over the last 30 years and before that how the rich worldwide steal more money and power and influence and abuse it more and more.
And they won't give it up peacefully. (Although some rich people don't like the system either, the ones in power won't give it up.)
It'll be a fight.
TheSkunkCat 3 months ago
@TheSkunkCat
But you know when that fight comes in... probably a few decades, barring a huge turnaround I don't expect. When the situation has degraded into a big banana republic and people stop taking it anymore.
Then I don't think they will be wrong to fight back for their honest hard-earned slice of the pie. Against rich people who buy fifth yachts over their back as they lose their healthcare, house and what not more.
Some fights NEED to be fought, and one IS coming I fear.
TheSkunkCat 3 months ago
I would like to see your review of those brain exercise games like lumosity
Bulloxe4 4 months ago
"it doesn't matter who the aggressor is, just that there is continued escalation" how does that make sense? if there wasn't an aggressor there wouldn't be escalation, the aggressor is the escalator. What matters is how you respond to an aggressor, by letting them bully you and take whatever they want from you? (it is the nature of aggressors to continue their aggression if unabated) or fight for your rights.... to paaaartaaay... and freedom and other good things.
kyebean 4 months ago
The Internet is anything but fragile. Networks come and go, sites come and go, people come and go, organizations come and go, content comes and goes, technology comes and goes... but the Internet abides.
kyebean 4 months ago
"Vee-lay-piin"
RyuDarragh 4 months ago
Meh, either way is good for me... If anyone tries to harm TF or Phil or any Rationalist on YT, they'll have a war on their hands... Not just a figurative one... A real one... Go ahead... We'll kill every single one of you...
champjklccmk 4 months ago
Meh, drama is fun to watch. I think the people most worked up about all this are the commenters, and a few videographers of questionable sanity.
l337pwnage 4 months ago
what happens on YT stays on YT? Now is only that where true, it should be but its not. And we are far to lax with those that take it off YT or allow others to do it for them.
liesandtricks 4 months ago
Most religious people are babies that begin to play the "hurt feelings" card if the arguments get tough. Or come up with unjustified real world consequences. But most of the time they start crying. That makes me feel bad despite knowing that I am not the cause of it but this childhood indoctrination by parents and priests.
pcuimac 4 months ago
I have T-foots back.
soulinite 4 months ago 2
@soulinite
He's revealed his name on his channel. It's Phil McCrakin.
C0nc0rdance 4 months ago 5
@C0nc0rdance He's still T-foot to me. :)
soulinite 4 months ago
@C0nc0rdance I thought it was Phil Mason.
Drgamedood 4 months ago
@Drgamedood It was a pun. ;)
l337pwnage 4 months ago
@C0nc0rdance TF has a large audience and he has a responsibility to be absolutely certain of things before he unleashes 150k people on a person. Ali has received death threats, the fbi called on him and other harassments for something he clearly did not do. His video that TF keeps playing was not a death threat and the kid isn't a terrorist, yet TF continuously portrays him that way. Ali tried multiple times to reason with him and TF laughed in his face. He deserved to have his job called.
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 He is a terropansy.
He doc dropped Thunderfoot although he knows that he receives death treats.
Malicious person, malicious stalking, malicious intends, malicious results.
Who told u that DF tried to reason with anyone?
He tried to harass stalk & coerce him to delete his videos.
On the contrary it was DF that rejected the invitation for a discussion from Tf.
As for the death treat:"WE will SEND YOU to the god u wish u knew,as MANDATED in the QURAN"
Sound like a death treat to me.
AmetReloads 4 months ago
@AmetReloads I don't know what a terropansy is. Go through DFs videos starting with the one TF so famously quote mined. You will see that he attempted to open a line of dialog with him in an open forum and said that he would be willing to retract his statement if TF clarified what he meant. What was the qualifier of "we will send you to the god you wish you knew"? If you or anyone kills an innocent Muslim or non-Muslim then Muslims and their non-Muslim allies will send you to the god you ...
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 So your interpretation of "awaken a sleeping giant who is hostile" is "kill"? Even if that made any sense, which it doesn't, thunderf00t's "sleeping giant" was simply a reference to secularists standing up to attacks and bullying by Islamists. Haha, I'm guessing dawhy's paranoid delusional personality leads him to believe that thunderf00t literally has a sleeping giant that he's planning to unleash on Mecca like king kong lol.
kyebean 4 months ago
@kyebean No, he was saying that if some maniac tried to perform a genocide on anyone, that that person or people would be sent to the god they wish they knew. It was a poor choice of words, but TFs attacks have become more and more overt and open. It is clear that he despises Muslims, not Islam.
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 "Thunderf00t and people who think like you, if you ever, ever try to awaken some sort of sleeping giant that is hostile to any muslim or non-muslim innocent person, as mandated in the KOARAAN, and the true interpretation of the Sharia that all true muslims and the majority of the muslims in the world share, we muslims the servants of *creepy gibberish* and our non muslim allies, will send you to the god you wish you knew." Where's the part about maniacs committing genocide?
kyebean 4 months ago
@kyebean First of all, notice the qualifier. Second, notice how he says non-Muslim innocent people and Muslims and their non-Muslim allies... Third, did you actually watch TFs whole video DFs whole video and then the next video he put out called "Caution: Scary Muslim At Work" found at /dawahfilms#p/u/41/0ZllAj6_rWg on youtube? He took TFs initial video as a threat of genocide and that is when ali made his famous video, then he tried to open up a dialog with the for-mentioned video.
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 I've watched all TF's videos about this and none could be construed as threat of genocide by anyone other than a complete retard. Quote me TF's threat of genocide.
kyebean 4 months ago
@kyebean "For your continued existence is entirely at the discretion and of the good will of the giant and that is all that stands between you're being granted continued existence" from "South Park vs Islam" 4:40
Dawahfilms, who I entirely disagree with, then posted a video called "Caution: Scary Muslim at Work" Where he asks for clarification and agrees to post a retraction if TF would only clarify the meaning of those words. He invited TF to a civil discussion and TF just ignored it..
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 My interpretation of TF's statement is that those who embrace science and de-emphasize religion tend to be much more powerful because of their access to the advanced society, technology and weaponry that result from science. That's not a threat of genocide, he's just pointing out that religious extremists are attempting to bully, terrorize and control people who are much more powerful than them. So, TF didn't take him up on his offer to talk, it doesn't mean he "despises Muslims".
kyebean 4 months ago
@kyebean Honestly, I am not a TF hater and am a fellow atheist, but I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to ask for further clarification on a statement like "you're being granted continued existence". DF did kind of over-react initially, but I didn't construe it as a threat due to the qualifier. But what really disappointed me was when DF responded with a plea for dialog and a willingness to give TF the benefit of the doubt on that statement and TF ignoring his invitation to dialog..
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 TF may have talked to him in private, who knows? I can understand someone being reluctant to have anything to do with someone who is threatening them. TF basically said, watch out nutbags, the people you're messing with are more powerful than you. Then DF said if you are indirectly hostile to an innocent person, me and my deluded buddies all around the world will kill you (they actually have killed people recently, simply for insulting their imaginary friend).
kyebean 4 months ago
@kyebean DF hasn't said that nor has TF, so we can chalk that one up. What TF said could easily be construed as a threat and should have at least communicated to his subs that DF wanted to open a line of dialog but he considers that a waste of time.
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 What's inaccurate about my paraphrasing? I'm one of his subs and I don't care that he didn't communicate that. It's entirely his prerogative who he wants to talk to. He made an 8.5 minute video entitled "The Sleeping Giant" to clarify what he meant. He has never given any indication that he despises any person who believes Islam. He has never threatened genocide. Even if he did, anyone who has watched his videos would be an absolute moron to take it seriously.
kyebean 4 months ago
@christo930 Here is a perfect example of DF acting like a grownup and trying to open up a dialog:
/dawahfilms#p/u/41/0ZllAj6_rWg
christo930 4 months ago
@christo930 If you're going to post a link, at least make it one that works. I've tried searching that link on Dawah's channel, I've tried appending it to the youtube address, and I've tried googling it. None of those work. Perhaps it's a made-up link?
Zeuts85 4 months ago
@Zeuts85 You have to proceed the link with youtube's address or alternately you can search for the video called "Caution: Scary Muslim At Work"
christo930 4 months ago
godwin's law : all debates will devolve into arguments and continue to devolve to a point of nazi anlogys at wich point the side that takes said position has lost. althow i dont know how well it applies to islamic extreamists (not implicating moderate muslims) that would be perfactly happy waring swasticas and replasing "mit got unst" with alla, killing jews, gays, and anyone they feel dose not fit into there idea of a pure race...or am i wrong?
Lordpoison67 5 months ago
I think it can be summed up like this....
People are usually more firmly convinced that their opinions are precious than that they are true. - - George Santayana
alueshen 5 months ago
This is why 70%+ are religious nuts in this country. All they have to do is get upset and the atheist go back in the closet to keep the peace. I'm sick of it. See Sam Harris for a quick education.
sowcratees 5 months ago
@sowcratees It's because atheists only live one life, and actually appreciate and understand the sanctity of life for themselves and for others.
mcwhite001 5 months ago
c0nc0rdance: In addition to being one of the most rational voices on youtube, you are also by FAR the wizest! You are a leading star, and a role model for so many!
aLmAnZio 5 months ago
"An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind" - Mahatma Gandhi
captaindisguise 5 months ago
Second correction: it appears the deaths per year by drunk driving in the United States outstrip those caused by terrorism only by a factor of about fifty -and that's if we only count the "casualties" as those ~17,000 who outright killed, not the ~275,000 who are merely injured. Of course, to say 400 American civilians have been killed per year by terrorism is quite like saying there has been no global warming trend since 1998 (in fact it would be a far more egregious error if taken seriously).
polymath7 5 months ago
@polymath7 The problem being that we are not simply counting deaths, but trying to evaluate what is an appropriate responce to a person who argues that killing people is a way to convince them of truth. The moral difference between driving drunk and making such arguement should be obvious to you. If it is not, I don't know how to help you.
sowcratees 5 months ago
All credit to you for taking this approach, I must say, a class act.
It's important to have a balanced perspective on this issue ! You make so many good points that I can't pick just one to praise. Excellent stuff C0nc0rdance, and very well spoken as usual.
xxxAMurderofCrowsxxx 5 months ago
*caused fewer American deaths
polymath7 5 months ago
Sorry, I think you are advocating giving in to people who will not hesitate to see you beheaded. You are afraid of them, as am I, but if we ignore them they will kill us.
sowcratees 5 months ago 2
@sowcratees
"If we ignore them they will kill us"
*chortle*
Yes, wise So-crates, that's oll korrect.
This is a hysterically brainless statement by which you ought to be deeply embarrassed, unless you consider anonymity sufficient palliative to assuage the sting of making a fool of yourself.
Who exactly are "they"? Muslims simpliciter? Those who since 2001 have killed fewer American civilian deaths than drunk driving -by a factor of roughly 100?
Twit.
Hang your empty head.
polymath7 5 months ago
@polymath7 No, I will not. They are people who use threats and violence as arguements. They may be facists or the people who went after Michel Moore after his Oscar speach. He had to hire people to protect him. I hate all religion and all superstition equally, but the people who threaten to cut your head off if you don't convert...yeah my head is less empty than yours when I don't simply play the odds of being hit by a drunk or attacked by a Muslim. Both happen and both are not tolerable.
sowcratees 5 months ago
@DominoRolld I know that. That doesn't mean you have to turn it into a shitfest.
ForYeensSake 5 months ago
Heheh. Religion is a fucking joke.
GluttonForSex 5 months ago
Dawah stepped way over the line in his actions YT is an open forum but to extend that to someones personal life to threaten them, their job or personal life is akin to stalking he should leave YT. There is no justification for his actions if TF has done something unlawful DF should have called the police not stalk someone and gather data on their personal lives.
MsOneiroi77 5 months ago 3
@MsOneiroi77 The problem as far as I'm concerned is that for example, TF got Dawah problems with the FBI implying that he was a terrorist. And also he states that such information was given by a former TF's friend, and that he's not the only one who has it. I do not try to defend him, I just want people to know both sides. I think BOTH of them stepped way over and made stupid desitions.
Ottmar555 4 months ago
@Ottmar555 yes its gotten out of hand, really grown men who should know better acting out grudges and squabbles its like watching a reality tv soap opera. It was TFs fans that alerted the FBI to DW but still to retaliate and use doc information like that is just as bad. if they get worked up its time to walk away from YT and do something productive with their lives.
MsOneiroi77 4 months ago
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@Ottmar555 "...he states that such information was given by a former TF's friend, and that he's not the only one who has it. ..."
But he also states that he contacted tf00t's university and tried to hurt him professionally.
AlanCFA 4 months ago
The internet is real life-there is no line, no "what happens on youtube stays on youtube" rule. We All Know This!
Folks seem to excuse using the internet for harassment, defamation, humiliation of users using their real faces who say or do something someone doesn't like and insist it is NOT fair to seek to fight irl to stop them. And who imagined this is to be a rule? It isn't one.
PPL need to stop doing shit on the internet they can't get away with irl! The internet IS real life. ...cont
geodgereturns 5 months ago
@geodgereturns
So Tf00t has been *waaaaayyy* out of line a Long Time here. But DF is also out of line here - and not because he contacted Tf00t's employer. (People write to complain about controversial figures who in universities and research institutions All The Time! PZ Myers? James Watson? Bill Ayres? Ward Churchill? Richard Sternberg? Angela Davis! William Shockley!)
DF went too far cuz he used TF's real life joblessness to humiliate, harass him on youtube-which isn't ok irl either.
geodgereturns 5 months ago
@geodgereturns Wait... who says he's jobless?
tarrin4ever 5 months ago
C0n,
Why do you speak like a preacher in many of your videos (this one particularly)? Your subs react accordingly when you do this, and it’s frightening. Your subs are human beings, who are very persuadable. When you speak like this, they go into drone mode. There's something psychological and fundamental going on here. People need leaders, and you are taking on a role. But you are speaking for science, and science doesn’t operate this way. It’s dishonest, and I think you should stop.
getrealrubberseal 5 months ago
I always watch your videos when I need to restore my faith in humanity.
nerds2x2ever 5 months ago 35
This has been flagged as spam show
@nerds2x2ever then you're pretty damn dumb.
fringeelements 5 months ago in playlist More videos from C0nc0rdance
@nerds2x2ever watch this?? watch the jersey shore instead!!!
RTRVII 4 months ago
It's a real shame you didn't post this preachy pearl clutching sermon about conduct when VFX was being publicly pilloried in what could have been handled in a quiet and more amicable manner. I also don't recall your 'Ghanid-esque' sentiments when DF was being fucked with either. TF, DPR, et al set the code of conduct and the rules and now that the sword is pointed at TFs throat all of a sudden it's "King's X, King's X!". You want to harp about conduct, you should start with your own
HeavyTrafficAhead 5 months ago
@HeavyTrafficAhead Yes that is the consequences for committing crimes.
Taking in mind your support of extrajudicial killings of american citizens, im sure its difficult to digest that some people reserve their legal rights and use lawful methods for protecting their rights.
You drunkyard fool, who cares whose necks it is?
Stalking, harassment are still crimes, no matter whose neck it is..
Lets not pretend though,that it isnt your pathological hate for Tf, that is driving your comments.
AmetReloads 5 months ago
Nice video. I need to remember this from time to time....
Jeffersonwazright 5 months ago
Great video man! Excellent sentiments, well put.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
i will not turn the other cheek!
SuperPimpjj 5 months ago
My friend, you know we have similar views on this... I just wish I was as eloquent as you.
RationalRoundtable 5 months ago
It's Global Thermonuclear War, and nobody wins.
But maybe - just maybe - you can lose the least.
managarm1349 5 months ago
Thank you!
I can take a reasoned breath.
I can breathe.
and dammit, life just simply is
and life is good.
tiznogodz 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
OH MY GOD. enough of this stupid youtube drama, every one of my channels i subscribe to are making videos related to this stupid drama about this girl, DMCA this, DMCA that, I DONT CARE AT ALL about any of this. just make the videos that people subscribed to you for. you are just giving more attention to these rediculous people. all these videos are about being offended and youtube comments. none of this matters..nobody is being harmed by any comments on youtube. THIS IS THE INTERNET - GROW UP
kekejojo1212 5 months ago
Nope nope nope.
Just go to places where you are allowed to be anonymous when you feel like hating on someone else.
roflschofel 5 months ago
@roflschofel
Yeah let's take the anonymity away from gay Muslims who are "hating on Islam" when they try to reform it, or the freedom fighters in monarchy's all over the world who are "hating on the government" when fighting for democracy. You're either an idiot or haven't thought through the consequences of what you said. Most controversial speech is hate from someones perspective.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
Amen! Err, I mean, well said!! ; )
I also can't see how Dawah thinks announcing to the world what he did is doing himself any favors. Whether or not it's actually the case, he comes across as a fanatically embittered stalker who spends night and day plotting revenge against Tf00t.
iamgoddard 5 months ago
I wanted to make a video on how messages get lost when either side stops being intellectual and logical, and starts getting emotional and personal. I think this video sums up the necessary steps in a more political and community way.
csbair 5 months ago
To some, it would appear, it's a demanding road to be great and let petty strife be.
So what if people call you names? Move on, since they can't.
Peace.
NielsC68 5 months ago
Doesn't it seem a bit odd to flip out over what someone says about you online? When people freak out over stuff they see on YouTube, I just laugh. What makes it funny is that 99.9% of the time the people in dispute have never met and have silly names to boot.
"Chihuahua94355 called me a monkey! That little fucker! I'm going to go to his house and kill him!"
Seriously, people. Go outside. Kiss a girl. Write the great American novel.
fkerpants 5 months ago 2
@fkerpants I concur entirely.
billygutter01 5 months ago
Wait, what did DawahFilms do now? I've not heard anything about it.
thebigJ1er 5 months ago
@thebigJ1er I just checked his channel and the offending video. After some dramatic self-righteous ranting about Thunderf00t's take on the Potholer/amenakin thing, he lets the viewer know that he mailed colleagues of thunderf00t his YT videos. Basically, he's honestly admitting to being a doc dropping douchebag.
Holammer 5 months ago
@Holammer What a sad little man.
thebigJ1er 5 months ago
@Holammer What's funny about it is that he's assuming that they 1. give a shit or 2. haven't seen it. Like YouTube is a secret place where you can't see things unless someone shows it to you. He also plays the "wounded religious folk" card. "What will the MUSLIMS say when they see your videos?!
Fuck that guy.
fkerpants 5 months ago
@fkerpants I think you may have put the quotes in the wrong place but if I understand your post correctly, yea, fuck that guy.
Jeffersonwazright 5 months ago
@Jeffersonwazright Oh, I didn't close them right. That's what I get for posting as I walk out the door.
Fuck that guy anyway.
fkerpants 5 months ago
u need to git a fukkin edukashun. skars dont heel, they r allready heeled duuuumy.
(Not really a hillbilly butt troll, just being ironic)
TheCraich 5 months ago
You're speaking about someone who doesn't have a whole lot else in his life, nor the emotional maturity to deal with conflict without letting it consume him.
The other 'someone' is just really, really ignorant about actual real, living breathing everyday Muslims.
I think this really is quite a pertinent video, and I hope some people take note.
Skindoggiedog 5 months ago
Everyone just cock it down a notch.
phurphy 5 months ago
Pretending that a few words on the Internet are the equivalent of war is hyperbole to the nth degree.
stevehayes13 5 months ago
Well said indeed.
Some people need to let their cyber ego relax a bit
GeneralMontague 5 months ago
Bloody marvellous. Very well said.
TheraminTrees 5 months ago
Perfectly addresses the issue, I left a comment on DWF's video which shared the tone you've taken.
lilililililililiilii 5 months ago
Wait... did I hear you talking about the internet and then say "for this fragile world community to survive.."
ROFLCOPTER!
Come ON man, do flamewars and trolls cause your wifi to explode? Do they make your modem pack it's bag and go fishing? Do fibre optics ignite? The worldwide internet "community" has guts and blood and is here to stay, rules of conduct immerge naturally and are community driven but even without them, the internet will never die.
8DX 5 months ago
Interfering into TF's private life transgressed the limits, and truly, Allah likes not the transgressors.
TheRationalizer 5 months ago
what did DawahFilms do?
Plausiblesarge 5 months ago
@c0nc0rdance Free Speech is Offensive*
inadaizz 5 months ago
I mean, look at the comments in this video: watch?v=dg6b1aQoGfk
Compare them to the comments in most other videos.
Yeah, wargamers get along really well. :)
Vehementi 5 months ago
@Vehementi Get along really well, even when disagreeing with eachother.*
Vehementi 5 months ago
I'm sorta a part of 2 communities here on YT. One is the freethinkers/atheist/left wing style community, the other is the miniature war gaming community.
Y'know, things like Warhammer 40,000 or Waermachine.
With the latter community, there's no false DMCAing, no huge wars between channels and very, very little trolling. As a community, I prefer the wargaming one, it's a lot more peaceful, and honestly? If the whole internet took a leaf outta that book, it'd be a much better place.
Vehementi 5 months ago
@Vehementi And it's not like wargaming has no differing views, either. For example, one person might prefer Warmachine and can't stand 40k, the other muight be the total opposite, or one person might prefer Space Marines, whilst the other can't stand Space Marines and loves Tyranids.
We can get into huge debates about tactics, army lists, painting, everything, but ultimately, it's all very peaceful.
Vehementi 5 months ago
As for death threats themselves, I would really love to see an analysis done of who makes them and who gets them and why, and with a section dealing with death threats made on YouTube.
Prelude610 5 months ago
... in a merciless rebuttal. DF responded by making not so vague death threats, as if being a Muslim entitled him to do that, and as for tone, he was rather sanctimonious, and that never works in debate. TF is now able to rub DF's own words in his face, so when your own words are your undoing, what is the poor guy to do but claim some sort of persecution? That, or retreat.
Prelude610 5 months ago
The tone of one's statements in a debate is important and will affect the direction it takes. But the tone also has to match the import of the point made, and at least match the vigor of the opposing side. There are many voices in this religion/science debate and we need to hear from them all. But we need to deal more with the content than the emotion in its delivery. In this debate the poor Muslim boy got his ass handed to him by TF who actually listened to DF and used his own words...
Prelude610 5 months ago
I believe we all have the capacity to be nice, except the killers of our society, thats wrong, mankind, I have been all over the world, & people are just wonderful, regardless of where you go, 3rd world, in the mountains, I may not know how to speak there language, but I know I can always make them laugh,&enjoy the moment together, they may not have enough to eat but they always have enough to share,& its not polite to say no thank you, cause you know they do not have enough,
so where did we go
AngstromJohnny 5 months ago
that was beautifully said. I wonder tough how that would go over at lets say a KKK really in the south, or a poor Italian neighborhood in the 60tys like Williamsburg , Brooklyn, NY or Irish bar in hells kitchen, Manhatten during saint Patrick day around happy hour, or just some plain young people on a packed bus lets say dixie highway, 5 pm mid week, it always sounds good, & I am sure it would be a wonderful thing, I know personally, we all want that idea, but a bikers conventions in S cal hmmm
AngstromJohnny 5 months ago
This is why I subscribed to you
wyvernlord23 5 months ago
Well spoken, Sir.
SeltsamerAttraktor 5 months ago
Personally, I think the key is to treat online fora like the real world as far as possible. I've travelled a lot and people are generally agreeable everywhere. It's obviously easier to criticise someone at a remove, and formulate a response to a criticism too. But why do people here find it so hard to agree to disagree? Politeness costs nothing. It's also less entertaining, unfortunately. The demanding road is also the road less travelled.
DaithiDublin 5 months ago
I like the usual You-tube drama around the controversial topics like religion or politics.
Its like watching text-based gladiator fights in the arena of ideas,
its very entertaining.
And yes I'm hypocrite for never taking part in any of those fights, because like my stress-free life to stay stress-free.
In the end our biology, new technologies & available resources are going to have a much greater influence on our society than these feuds over ideas.
unamaxify 5 months ago
Is the internet not the real-world? Is it some how 'fake'.
chessmastor 5 months ago
Really, If Dawahfilms does something to Tfoot in real life, does he really think there isn't going to be a backlash in real life?
Feralus69 5 months ago
Some people take youtube way to seriously.
TechGriffin 5 months ago 2
Bravo
jamesmaseobrown 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@C0nc0rdance You are an inspiration to us all :)
thinkhendo 5 months ago
>Road Rovers
>Minecraft
>Battlefield 3 Beta
What in the hell is with these recommended videos?
ReclusiarchGrimaldus 5 months ago
"This business is about letting things go so you can get what you want." - Bert Cooper, Mad Men. I think of this quote often, and in many contexts.
quaternio 5 months ago
So wait... what is this about? I'm lost.
thecommonersview 5 months ago
One more C0nc0rdance asks too much of humanity as a whole. :-)
Desertphile 5 months ago
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." Mahatma Gandhi, (attributed).
I think that people are entitled to express a personal opinion and to have that opinion criticized by those who disagree. It's the essence of free speech. But deliberately drawing that opinion to the attention of specific people in the hope of negative retribution is not just overstepping the line of "fair criticism", it's catapulting it.
ferrett78 5 months ago
@ferrett78-But deliberately drawing that opinion to the attention of specific people in the hope of negative retribution is not just overstepping the line of "fair criticism", it's catapulting it.
What do you mean by "negative retribution". I think it's certainly legitimate to bring attention to someone who is doing wrong (filing false DMCA's for example) in order to shame them so they might either see the error of their ways, or at least to discourage them, or others from doing likewise.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist I agree. If the original comment is in violation of the law, bringing it to the attention of the authorities is being responsible. However, if the original comment or action is not illegal, bringing it to the attention of people the commenter is associated with in real life, in the hopes that some will be offended by it and take action, is not. It's (literally) childish. Even if you find the original comment personally offensive.
ferrett78 5 months ago
@ferrett78-I cannot agree with the actions of those who reported Dawah to the authorities
While I agree he shouldn't have been reported to authorities. I couldn't say I disagree with the actions of those who reported him unless I knew what motivated them. If they honestly thought Ali was a threat then they were right to take that action. If they did it to harass then it was obviously wrong. That's assuming of course that it actually happened, and I've seen no evidence that it did.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist "While I agree he shouldn't have been reported to authorities. I couldn't say I disagree with the actions of those who reported him unless I knew what motivated them."
This is why I included "unless his actions were illegal and warranted it" in my comment. To be honest, I havent really looked into the situation that much. While I get in my fair share of disagreements, I do try to avoid what I feel is unnecessary drama on YouTube.
ferrett78 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist And in that regard, I cannot agree with the actions of those who reported Dawah to the authorities (unless his actions were illegal and warranted it), nor can I agree with the actions of Dawah in mailing TFs faculty. It reminds me of that one kid in the playground who calls another kid a "bad name", but who runs to every teacher they can find in the hope of finding one that will listen, when the other kid calls him one back.
ferrett78 5 months ago
I will say in this channel the same thing I have said in other channels on the matter. How something is said can be as important as what is being said. Unnecessarily swearing, rudeness and crudeness add nothing of value to a conversation. They demean intelligence and the forum being represented. Basic courtesy is a requirement not just of Utube but of life.
Sunhawk7ajj 5 months ago
I'm sorry C0nc0rdance but the fact that you mention DahwahFilm's 'intrusion' as you called it and do not refer toThunderf00t's interference shows that the Demanding Road (turning your cheek) is biased idea.
langsense 5 months ago
@langsense I'm not familiar with the drama but did thunderfoot doc-drop, make real life threats or otherwise take youtube drama out of youtube into the real world? I think that's the point of this vid.. youtube will always have vids that are bigoted, hateful and/or offensive, but it's when someone escalates the conflict by taking it into the real world that they've crossed the line.
antonc81 5 months ago
@antonc81
Apparently TF, either himself, or his rabid followers reported Dahwah to the FBI, several times. Therefore, affecting his life. If you are willing to attack someone online, with slander or hate, then you should face the consequences. There are too many people who use the internet to bully, to spread hate and fear.. and they do it with impunity. TF, I believe has become one of those unfortunately and he needs to see that it has consequences.. in real life.
langsense 5 months ago
@langsense
And your point is? If DF had never made a video that could have been interpreted, or misinterpreted as a threat then the FBI would never have had a reason to investigate him. Are you seriously implying that the FBI investigating him (IF they actually did) is somehow TF's fault because he brought more attention to that video than DF would have liked, or they investigated him based on TF's characterization of the video? lol
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
Continued...
And if someone had shot TF because they had believed Ali's mischaracterization of TF's "Sleeping giant" video as a call for genocide against Muslims would he have been responsible for that response?, or would you have said it was TF's fault for not expressing himself more clearly? OR would you have rightly blamed the person who shot him.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist "OR would you have rightly blamed the person who shot him."
I'll take door number 3. People have a responsibility for their own actions. As I said earlier, while you may personally disagree with others or find their comments offensive, it is irresponsible to take vengeful action because of it. You are free to express a contrary opinion, and to contact authorities if the situation warrants it. False DMCAs or mailbombing a faculty would be an example of an UNwarranted reaction.
ferrett78 5 months ago
@ferrett78
Nothing happened to TF as far as I'm aware.. but DF had his life threatened and was reported to the FBI. I did not see or hear TF tell his viewers to stop doing this.
It is strange to hear the same arguments from atheists that Right Wing pundits such as Beck or O'Reilly have used. Also, the same hate and vitriol.
langsense 5 months ago
@langsense "I did not see or hear TF tell his viewers to stop doing this."
This makes several assumptions.
1) That it was done multiple times.
2) That it was brought to TFs attention.
3) That TF is somehow responsible for the actions of his viewers.
4) That TF asking his viewers to stop actually would make them stop.
I do not condone threats or unwarranted reporting to authorities in any way, as you'd have seen from my previous comments.
ferrett78 5 months ago
@langsense "I did not see or hear TF tell his viewers to stop doing this."
This makes several assumptions.
1) That it was done multiple times.
2) That it was brought to TFs attention.
3) That TF is somehow responsible for the actions of his viewers.
4) That TF asking his viewers to stop actually would make them stop.
I do not condone threats or unwarranted reporting to authorities in any way, as you'd have seen from my previous comments.
ferrett78 5 months ago
Comment removed
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
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@langsense-Nothing happened to TF as far as I'm aware.. but DF had his life threatened and was reported to the FBI.
TF likely had his life threatened far more from religious extremists as a result of DF characterizing him as a bigot calling for the genocide of Muslims than DF was threatened by atheists, and another assumption to add to ferrett78's list is that DF was contacted by the FBI at all. AND if he was you don't know whether legitimate concern was the motivation.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@langsense-It is strange to hear the same arguments from atheists that Right Wing pundits such as Beck or O'Reilly have used.
Guilt by associated fallacy. E.g. As a vegetarian Hitler made the same arguments against eating meat as modern vegetarians make, does that make them wrong? Obviously anti-theistic sentiment directed at Muslims is going to resonate with, and and share in common some points and arguments used by people who are anti-Muslim.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
Continued...
Unfortunately the response to that commonality by many on the left is to avoid criticizing Islam at all, or to avoid criticisms (no matter how reasonable) that happen to share that commonality with right wing assholes. We see this in other cases as well. Right winder criticize immigration and use it as hate. For example "the Mexicans are taking your jobs". So the left either supports, or says nothing about immigration for fear of being identified as a right wing bigot.
(cont)
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
(cont)
When in fact immigration is a problem. The influx of immigrants allows the rich to pay slave wages for certain Jobs, and then claim "Americans won't do those jobs" when in fact they would if they paid a decent wage which they won't as long as they have an immigrant work force.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist
As you said 'misinterpreted' .. I watched both Dahwahs and TF's videos and TF definitely misinterpreted what DF said.. whether deliberately or not is another matter.
Actually, no, it's not another matter. TF and his minions were the only ones who saw what DF said as a threat.. and either TF is not as intelligent as I thought him to be or he deliberately made out that DF was threatening him. I believe the latter.
langsense 5 months ago
@langsense
In the context of DF mischaracterizing "the sleeping giant" video as a bigoted call for genocide it is not unreasonable to percieve that video as a thinly veiled death threat. It's only if you believe DF honestly misunderstood that video, and his mischaracterization was unintentional that it can bee seen otherwise. Do I think TF believe it wasn't? I can't say. In any case he had just been accused of being a genocidal bigot by DF, so I can't say I blame him for portraying Ali's
(cont)
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
(cont)
...video as being a death threat in retribution. The only reason Ali is seen by some as the victim in that exchange is because TF has more subs, and thus won the flame war, AND because he allegedly was reported to the FBI. If TF had been murdered by Muslim extremists as a result of Ali's mischaracterization the situation would be entirely different, and Ali would be seen almost universally as the villain.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist "The only reason Ali is seen by some as the victim in that exchange is because TF has more subs, and thus won the flame war, AND because he allegedly was reported to the FBI."
No, DawahFilms is often seen the victim because in a video he apologized for his stupid misinterpretations of the "sleeping giant" message and wishe to recant what he said, and yet Thunderf00t continues to call him a terrorist who supports death threats despite knowing full well the truth of the matter.
adafuns 4 months ago
@langsense That's not cool at all (contacting the FBI etc). I'm not a huge fan of either of them (though I admit I liked TF's anti-creationism science vids) so I'm not shedding any tears. Suffice to say it is a pity that so few people these days can disagree but still be mature about it.
antonc81 5 months ago
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faved, shared and embraced. thank you for this.
viicISrotcib 5 months ago
faved, shared and embraced. thank you for this.
viicISrotcib 5 months ago
So what exactly did DawahFilms did recently?
JaMoond 5 months ago
A+ This is a very touching video and rational. Thanks for making it. I was watching the Dawahfilms and Thunderf00t vids and was pretty upset on how it was handled.
Livelife8072 5 months ago
Great video.... I wish certain others had the sense you do.
MNICY 5 months ago
I am with TF in his defense of science and reason and his utter contempt for the crap put out and the nastiness done in the name of religion. I applaud him for being as forceful and scathing as the situations he has addressed warrant, while also showing respect for genuinely peaceful xtians and Muslims. I also note that DF's responses to TF criticism of the murderous elements of Islam has been to confirmed TF's assertion. In other words, DF seems to need profession help.
Prelude610 5 months ago 16
@Prelude610 +1
SeltsamerAttraktor 5 months ago
@Prelude610 "while also showing respect for genuinely peaceful xtians and Muslims"
Good one. You almost had me for a second.
volbla 5 months ago
When debate turns to or is an excuse for insults and/or threatening behavior and possible physical violence than it's the end of the road. You can insult if it's humourous or done with elan, people should learn to live with the words they hear and say.
abjectreality 5 months ago
Isn't "eye for an eye" compromise from long ago when a whole family would be killed for one person stealing an apple, type of justice?
startreking2007 5 months ago
Dawah is an asshole, and that is clear from his videos. He may pretend to get along or to be civil at times but his vehemence makes it clear that he would slit your throat for your words.
wwickeddogg 5 months ago 2
I'm actually siding with Dawah in this drama, but the semi doc-dropping was uncalled for, as well as his using bisexual as an insult. As well as some other things. I'm not a big fan of either person, tbh, but I will watch the drama from a distance with amusement.
Atalantius 5 months ago
@Atalantius-as well as his using bisexual as an insult
Did he really? I couldn't sit through 10 minutes of Dawahhh-ing, but in light of that I'm even more surprised that at least one you-tuber I ordinarily respect made supportive comments on it. Not that his doc dropping threats alone aren't enough reason to find his actions reprehensible.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist Well, he kind of did. Essentially, he said that Tf00t's bisexual 'druggie'(which I guess is common knowledge, seeing as she made that video public) girlfriend left him for another girl, then went "WOW! WOW!". I wasn't impressed by that. Still, I think Tf00t's been unfair to him, and unfair with his islam videos in general, but that's neither here nor there, I guess. I just don't think it's as a black/white issue as some think, and am leaning towards dawah kind of. ^^
Atalantius 5 months ago
@Atalantius-I think Tf00t's been unfair to him
That may well be, but that in no way justifies blackmail, and threats of potential doc dropping to get him to remove video's, and retract what he said. If the FBI thought Ali's "death threat" video was serious enough to warrant an investigation (and that seems to be his biggest gripe) that's Ali's fault, not TF's.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago 2
@TheNakedAtheist I don't think it was a death threat. But let's not get into that. Oh, I agree with you, it doesn't justify doc dropping or blackmail at all. He did talk about the FBI thing in his video though, which, like him or not, you may want to check out. And it's not really his fault, since the main reason (apparently), was a number of Tf00t's subscribers contacting the FBI themselves. That's not tf00t's fault either, mind you.
Atalantius 5 months ago
@Atalantius
It really doesn't matter who did, or didn't contact the FBI (assuming of course that anyone did, and that he was actually contacted). Before they would have done anything they would have looked at the video in question. and determined for themselves whether they thought it justified any action on their part.
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago
@TheNakedAtheist What did Dawahflims do? She has removed her comment from TF's channel (I searcher :)) But you have me curious as heck. PLEASE explain. Pretty please!!!
Sunhawk7ajj 5 months ago
The deterrence of mutually assured destruction doesn't work on an opponent motivated by concepts like martyrdom, jihad and Armageddon.
kittengenocide 5 months ago 33
@kittengenocide Also i'm sick of people labelling other people terms like bigots and trolls to avoid having to address their arguments
kittengenocide 5 months ago
Q: What do you call an empty jar of Cheeze Whiz?
A: Cheeze Whuz.
Fuzzy192006 5 months ago
Could someone fill me in on what Dawahfilms did and what happened with that drama? And the potholer/amenakin seemed to be getting on with each other civilly, are you just referring to the trolling by anti-muslim bigots?
crocoshocker 5 months ago
@crocoshocker
In response to TF's latest video about Amanakin DF is blackmailing him, and threatening to contact his employers, or drop his docs if he doesn't remove the videos TF has made that he doesn't think were fair. TF's response to those threats are on his blog, and it's hilarious. lol
TheNakedAtheist 5 months ago 3