@channelin lol more like a funny bone. I love the concept of comparing individuals to another in order to try and prove some sort of point. you have never meant either of them so stop acting like youre some kind of fight promoter. you want to try and show up an art, you have to do it yourself. and please, wear the tap out shirt if you choose to do so.
once upon a time ninjutsu wasn't even ninjutsu. It was a number of poor people over many, many years searching for, studying, coming up with and trying different teachings to defend themselves against their opressers. so who's to say what ninjutsu is not if its effective against the ememy!?
people should all stop arguing, i am a practitioner of this art and this is the only real source of ninjutsu alive today, i wish you all the best whatever you train in etc.. Gambatte
Well i was going to read all these comments and try and draw a conclusion about what everyone was saying...but after skimming quite a bit of it...I realized there are just a bunch of trolls on here that are really good at looking up wikipedia information and back peddling a lot...I'm talking to you "Kommisar" and "Arteanor". Everybody seems to be a damn expert about something they don't seem to practice...a lot of arguing about ninjutsu and nothing about ninpo...funny. Have fun guys.
"I realized there are just a bunch of trolls on here that are really good at looking up wikipedia information and back peddling a lot"
isn't always the BEST when kids spout off like they're hard, just because they know you can't cuff em in the head?
the funniest part of this is that hatsumi has a CREW of people that POLICE his wiki, in addition, the same people constantly MAKE UP articles and cite nothing,
@Arteanor Damn bro, sorry...I didn't know you were the master and know all encyclopedia of all things martial arts...or not martial arts according to you. Most martial art forms borrow techniques from other styles...that's their way of adapting to what is necessary...For example, if a martial artist says, I just got my ass whooped by Taijutsu, I need to adapt to counter that better...
Bujinkan and Ninjutsu do have A LOT in common...but I guess I can't argue with the MA encyclopedia.
"Bujinkan and Ninjutsu do have A LOT in common..."
you base this on WHAT ?? do you have a source for this knowledge of ninjutsu? or is your only source the student of a person who MADE UP his connection TO NINJUTSU. hell he doesn't even know any ninjutsu,
"but I guess I can't argue with the MA encyclopedia."
no your problem is that you can't argue with the scrolls... Bansenshukai, Shoninki, and the Ninpiden... we can see what ninjutsu WAS, and what it WASN'T.
yes, keep pretending that this is something you have to take my word for.
still no historical documentation?
no sources? NADA?
methinks you ought to have something more substantial when you are asking to rewrite history than ' well my teacher told me....' ESPECIALLY when that goes in the face of all recorded history of the country.
you are out of your element.
go READ the shinobi manuals. BANSENSHUKAI, NINPIDEN SHONINKI!
the answer to that is available by looking at the MASSIVE number of people that PAY for hatsumi's 'ninjutsu' despite the fact that none of them seem to notice that from the demo's shown BY HATSUMI, his own art is useless... HOWEVER, it is ALSO entirely a LIE... he has NO CONNECTION to any sort of ninjutsu...
@Arteanor You obviously know very little about Ninjutsu or Bujinkan. (A majority of martial arts aren't like this style) What ridg00 stated could be accurate in the fact that in 99% of all videos, they are simply doing demonstrations and not full on sparring. If anyone were to actually try to spar with Sensei Hatsumi he would probably have to use a lot of restraint to keep them alive. All the techniques in this style are designed to kill or completely subdue quickly and accurately.
"You obviously know very little about Ninjutsu or Bujinkan."
those 2 have no relation.
if your only frame of reference for ninjutsu is the lies of hatsumi, you have some homework to do, Bansenshukai, Ninpiden, Shoninki... go READ the shinobi manuals... then come talk hard.
asserting the supernatural power of hatsumi always good for the lulz...
too bad all of the techniques are part of other martial arts, and have nothing to do with ninjutsu, he just tagged the name on it.
I never said don't question... where did I say this? lol.
I don't mind if you question Hatsumi... Feel free.
-Btw I watched the Video.
Anthony strawmanned a lot of what Mr. Parker said.
Not only that I love how Anthony writes off what Parker said just because he doesn't provide a page number etc etc.
The reason Anthony does this... is because he doesn't have access to these sources. Same tactic I see you using as well. That is not research, my friend.
antony writes off what parker says because it is either based on people who are simply regurgitating what hatsumi has said, based purely off of his own words of course... or it is pure speculation, just like YOU are speculating at the reasons for antony's course of action...
well we don't write history or science books based on one guys say so....
the problem is, that if he wants to have his claims to ninjutsu be substantiated, he is going to have to prove them. publicly, DEAL ok?
@Arteanor: in my inbox i have a message from anthony saying that hatsumi and the bujinkan do teach authentic ninjitsu , "the issue is whether they are a direct lineage". i certainly got taught most of the things anthony talked about in his video's and never thought anything of it until i went to you tube to see this sort of carry on. for gods sake its a mishmash of styles developed according to which clothes you wore and where you came from. you miss the point of bujinkan entirely, poor u.
@Arteanor look at choson ninja vs takamatsu, quoting anthony 'noone says they dont sometimes teach ninjutsu'
the question isnt about the techniques, its about where they came from originally. accusations of plagerisim ect are rampant in this debate; quit with the silly statements and questions
antony is referring to the small segments of supplementary ninjutsu from the research likely done by takamatsu....
but it shows the integrity of your argument that you have to try and quote mine him.
"the question isnt about the techniques, its about where they came from originally. accusations of plagerisim ect are rampant in this debate; quit with the silly statements and questions"
"anthony said its not the techniques, its the lineage. im ok with that."
it wouldn't matter who said that, WHY CAN'T you PROVE it IS ninjutsu?
we see copying from the prodigious amount of research these men did on the subject... we even see things like takamatsu telling the BRD, that the lineage for togakure had TEN / ELEVEN of the "greatest shinobi ever" in the bansenshukai.
@crazytempest lol, well if you really want to find out if you're right...go to one of the next seminars and ask to fight with the head speaker/sensei...have fun with that bud.
He looks experienced. He should be being the last real ninja alive, officially I mean, but his students looks sooo fake. Look at them punching, not even trying to reach a target, just seem to be doing a show. And again, the comments are funny, funny how much shit people can talk! Thanks for video.
You know there are a ton of internet tough guys here on youtube. Hatsumi is doing these moves slow for instructional purposes. If you people were so intelligent you'd figure that out. Ninjutsu is such broad tactical martial art that you can't explain it like JuJitsu. Too many jocks on this thing with no respect for anything. Hatsumi is truly the last ninja. All the naysayers don't know what they are talking about.
since we both know that there is no evidence of any fighting techniques, striking, locks... anything that the rest of the world would think about when you say martial arts....
is it a military art? of course, but so is the placement and digging of latrines, if ninjutsu is a martial art, then so is latrine digging....
Doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks about martial arts. It's about what actual practitioners of martial arts(in this case more particularly those of traditional Japanese budo). In which your definition of martial arts is skewed. Martial art is a philosophy which gets expressed through physical techniques.
These physical techniques do not have to be just "locking someone in joint lock or choking them"
"Doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks about martial arts. It's about what actual practitioners of martial arts(in this case more particularly those of traditional Japanese budo)"
uh, problem, the REST of that community says that ninjutsu ISN'T a martial art... the only people trying to shoe it over the line is takamatsu-den...
"In which your definition of martial arts is skewed."
@Arteanor You still have definition of martial arts skewed. And once again it doesn't matter on what "you" think martial arts are. It's what they actually are... Which goes a lot deeper than being codified practices and tradition. It goes by philosophy. Whether you like it or not. Martial arts are philosophy in which get represented in physical techniques. Ninjutsu has a general philosophy that gets represented in physical techniques.
"You still have definition of martial arts skewed. And once again it doesn't matter on what "you" think martial arts are"
that is why i cited from the referenced wiki....
and since my definition sees fit to include all of the arts EXCEPT the ONE you are trying to shoe in.... and needs no bulky quantifiers, meaning it is objective, it is a superior definition...
yours is subjective, making for an overly broad definition...
Doesn't matter if you cited from the reference wiki... going with the best definition that DESCRIBES martial arts. You are lacking.
I am not.
So it is always better to go with what works... especially if you're pragmatic like myself.
And actually it fits in martial arts.... It's just clear you don't understand it quite yet. Because this definition requires a bit more thought process.(Most westerners don't understand Eastern concepts very well)
@Arteanor Actually definitions are usually made by an agreement of a large population or small group. And definitions are subject to change as semantics is a subjective topic. Therefore I go by the definition which works best(being that I am pragmatic and like to use things that work better). Which what I am saying works much better and is much more detailed.
Actually it does fit Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu itself has an obvious philosophy which goes hand and hand with the job of the Ninja. The techniques of Ninjutsu seems to generally fit the philosophy that would be required of a Ninja to be successful. This is seen in books like Bansenshukai and Togakure-Ryu.
And my explanation of martial arts actually does come from the Martial Arts community. Well those who are actually from martial arts and understand them.
Oh so you have a legitimate historical source that proves definition of Martial arts? Well now! lol.
There are discrepancies in just about every Koryu story.
You do realize the Ryu stemming from Miyamoto Musashi considered him to live to about 120 years old.
When I think he (according to independent sources) died at a much earlier age. I think he died in his 60's. That doesn't mean the entire lineage is fraudulent though.
Actually in reference to me saying "Doesn't matter if you cited from the reference wiki"
You said
"says the guy who doesn't think verifiable sources are a good tool, and who doesn't understand how definitions are written..."
Mhmmm... Oh really?! lol
Actually I was wrong. It wasn't Musashi. It was Iizasa Ienao Choisai... and the Ryu teaches him to have lived 102years. While in a more historically accurate sense it was around 40years old he died.
Not exactly... They are under no obligation to really prove anything to you. Maybe to its members, but not to you. I don't even really see how that would make anyone a cult.
Well according to many Koryu members taking them seriously.
According to Japanese researchers that take them seriously.
I will stand by my "Not exactly"
They are taken seriously, there's only few that disagree with Bujinkan. And they really don't have much evidence to do so. They just use argumentum ad ignorantiam. Such as yourself.
Also apparently you didn't read my sentence. The members have access to the info, you don't.
"Well according to many Koryu members taking them seriously."
can you show me where someone from a recognized koryu, WITH THE AUTHORITY to SPEAK for that KORYU, has spoken for the bujinkan's ninjutsu claims accuracy, and why.
"According to Japanese researchers that take them seriously."
who? you like to use titles, never names... cite some sources please, not just say u have...
"Yeah just head over to e-budo anytime you feel like it."
glad you have one... check these out:
showthread. php?t=38421
showthread. php?t=35175
'Just like I said... I recall an established Koryu member on Martial Arts Planet calling Anthony an idiot.'
who? i asked names. i also don't understand what relevance this has... it's a red herring fallacy for you to divert the subject to a hearsay ad hominem attack of a researcher.
Uhh you said give you "NAMES" geezus dude... Do you ALWAYS have to keep lying? I mean seriously... No one can get anywhere with you because you constantly change up things.
I gave you names of Japanese researchers that agree with Togakure ryu.
I do not REQUIRE citation or any of the other shit you asked for.
If you hint something, you're giving reason to believe something(therefore NOT assumption). IT's really that simple
To show you another example since you think it only fits "one martial art"
-Now remember each time I point out a statement you made that is incorrect, that discredits you on this topic.
Let us take a Korean art of Tae Kwon Do. The general philosophy of Tae Kwon do is "The foot is a far better weapon than the hand. A small mans legs are longer than a large mans arms and stronger than arms of even the largest man. From this they believe you can make kicks stronger and as fast."
"To show you another example since you think it only fits "one martial art""
HAHAHAHAHA a simple search of the comments shows you are lying... i never said this, to quote me saying so is intentionally dishonest, and entirely expected...
thank you for showing that the best defense that the bujinkan can teach you is to LIE .... be proud. i know i certainly am for busting you on this.
"And also I think you mean "intellectually dishonest" not "intentionally dishonest"'
the fact you are being both, is slipping by you...
i have already caught you in a lie, i will be reposting it after our dialogue... i don't think you can get much more intentionally dishonest than simply fabricating a quote... can't you use the copy feature?
How have you caught me in a lie? I just said I guess I misread you, and then I re-quoted you. Now you're the one lying in order to use argumentum ad hominem.
@Arteanor This philosophy normally deals with being simply put "sneaky" (avoiding as much contact with enemy and trying to escape). Due to the typical job of Ninja.
This can generate "combatitive" techniques or other techniques that help them in their cause. Which are all considered "martial"
There are other aspects of war besides a physical fight. One of the biggest jobs of warrior is gaining information on their enemy.
"this philosophy normally deals with being simply put "sneaky" (avoiding as much contact with enemy and trying to escape). Due to the typical job of Ninja."
so running away is a martial art? as long as i do it from a fight? that is quite the broad definition...
why not just argue the definition to be anything you can use in a sentence on the topic of war...
it would be more honest of you, rather than pretending to a definition that you have to subjectively moderate...
@Arteanor And by "rest of community" you must be talking about Shinobi Soldiers "crew" because the only people I see saying Ninjutsu isn't a martial art is those supportive of Anthony Cummings.
Actually no I am not unfamiliar... but you are very unfamiliar about a lot of things. (Which I will point out a little bit later).
Yes I am familiar that you can choose to register to these societies and submit any records you have for criticism to them. In order to determine if your art is indeed a "Koryu" system. To my knowledge... hatsumi only allows his densho to be viewed with HIM present. And couple people have actually read them.
@Arteanor Also from what I hear most of the Ninpo/Ninjutsu in Bujinkan is passed through Kuden. I'm not sure I would have to confirm that with Bujinkan member. But anyways... I thought you were referring to Ninjutsu... not Bujinkan? Because I know Koryu folks allllllll agree that Ninjutsu is a Koryu art. Not modern creation.
"Sure there is... you have Ninjutsu lineages like Togakure ryu that teaches fighting techniques."
uh, problem... the lineages of these 'ninjutsu' ryu are entirely without verification, citation, or any evidence beyond the say so of takamatsu toshitsugu...
but you knew this already, more of you being dishonest ( both still, be proud.)
i ALSO asked you to cite the evidence ( since you DO challenge the statement).
can't you manage that, its harder than asserting hmm?
Actually there is evidence beyond Takamatsu. Togakure ryu is also traced back with Kukishin lineage. In Sengoku Ninpo Zukan, Okuni Izumo who is known as previous Soke of Kukishin Ryu Happo Biken is the son in law of Toda Eisaburo Nobumasa who is previous Soke of Togakure ryu. And there is also other old documents that relating the same stuff as Takamatsu. Along with non Togakure ryu Japanese researchers that agree.
"Actually there is evidence beyond Takamatsu. Togakure ryu is also traced back with Kukishin lineage."
kukishin has no connection to shinobi.
"In Sengoku Ninpo Zukan, Okuni Izumo who is known as previous Soke of Kukishin Ryu Happo Biken is the son in law of Toda Eisaburo Nobumasa who is previous Soke of Togakure ryu."
but isn't in any lineage charts?
"And there is also other old documents that relating the same stuff as Takamatsu" CITE THEM, or is this MORE fiction...
I'm just pointing out that independent sources verify Toda/Togakure existance. Since Okuni Izumo had a father in law which is listed in Togakure Ryu lineage.
Not only that you have mentioning of them in Tammon In Nikki, Iranki, and Mikawa go Fudo-Ki
The Shoninki also mentions the word "Ninpo" which is a term Takamatsu also used.
Koshu ryu densho also talks about Koshu Ryu Jingai Jutsu Togakure Ryu Kaneru
he has a source in japan that can verify them.... get in touch with him, i can't believe you haven't been in on the investigation of togakure vids yet...
"The Shoninki also mentions the word "Ninpo" which is a term Takamatsu also used."
so what? the shoninki was already public, it was common knowledge to the field... takamatsu knew and used that.
"Koshu ryu densho also talks about Koshu Ryu Jingai Jutsu Togakure Ryu Kaneru"
you are simply quoting from message boards.... seems i am simply good enough to google the precise post you read... that chris parker sure can build a strawman....
too bad he can't knock down the things antony has said...
Actually Chris Parker is up there on the list with Don Roley. When it comes to getting information about Ninjutsu. The stuff that Anthony is repeating from Bansenshukai and etc. Are really things that are already known lol. And they are also found in the Togakure Ryu curriculum.
Anthony tends to make the mistake that most of what is represented in Bujinkan is Togakure.... When in reality most of Bujinkan is samurai school teachings.
"Actually Chris Parker is up there on the list with Don Roley."
good, i talked to don, he relied entirely on assuming the very same points you do... thank you for providing me further reason not to take your word for it....
" Anthony tends to make the mistake that most of what is represented in Bujinkan is Togakure.... When in reality most of Bujinkan is samurai school teachings"
then why are they marketed as ninjutsu? and why is the curriculum same as 'ninpo taijutsu'??
Actually the only person doing the assuming is you... you haven't really did any research outside of "google"
which you hinted that you google everything I have typed. Kinda hard to prove something to someone who only relies on his google searches for verification. He doesn't actually talk to the Koryu members. If someone wanted to find out something about my family... They will come to ask my family members. Reasonable enough?
Actually saying you "hinted" means I was given reason to believe something based off what you had said. (-facepalm-)
Actually no you don't rely on historical evidence for your verification. I have provided plenty of sources and then you went off on a tangent about how Chris Parker said the same thing.
Which could be considered Red Herring Fallacy if you want to be blunt.
"and as such indicates to me that you are not citing a source you know anything about, simply regurgitating someone else's assumptions...."
...Of Which you still didn't prove wrong.
"except that i never changed it to the topic, simply indicated that message board posts are bad sources...."
That's argumentum ad hominem.
Also I looked at those threads I really didn't see anything to help your case. I read up to 5 pages on both. And I saw a lot of the same things I have said.
Yeah there is a reason... Chris parker has already done it on Anthony's video. Anthony never replied. The post contains sources for your to look up. Now... if he didn't even give you something to look up. And just made the claim. THEN you would be correct. But since you have sources in which you can physically go check out. Then.. .you really don't have much to say until you prove them to be wrong. The same way Buffon said "Nishna is not in Genpei Seisuiki"
When did Chris Parker say anything about Genpei Seisuiki? I've never heard HIM bring that up, nor have I heard Don Roley bring it up. Can you show me where this is brought up?
did you even watch ANY of them? its evidence for togakure ninjutsu 8 mentions him at a scant 13 seconds....
= omJb0iZz2zI
"Soke of what?"
what does it matter?
since you know nothing of any arts i have claimed to even know, or could easily make up any number of fake names... and since proving things that are imaginary to be non-existent is tricky....
"you really don't have much to say until you prove them to be wrong" REMEMBER?
I am more familiar on this topic of logic than you are.
Argumentum ad hominem can also be the case for more than just a personal attack on the man. Attack on the source can also be an argumentum ad hominem.
The same way you dismiss my claims without checking into them.
Until you do something in the example of what Buffon has done... I have no reason to believe you. Although I see it as highly unlikely "named" sources and "named" people are made up. So I am more inclined to believe so.
Last time I checked it's BBT "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu"
It went through a name change a long time ago.
So tell me... Do you know what is apart of the Togakure Ryu curriculum?
Why are you worried about names... you should be using empirical observations of the techniques they're using to determine what "ryuha" they're using the most.
Tell me where you see A LOT of Togakure ryu being demonstrated?
I know they haven't changed the content. But what you DON'T understand... that the content you see is barely Togakure ryu. In fact there is hardly any Togakure ryu exposed on the internet.
That is the reason for the name change.
So you don't know what is apart of Togakure ryu curriculum... yet You think you're in a position to tell us that Bujinkan claims that most of what it is doing is togakure(because of a previous name)
"you DON'T understand... that the content you see is barely Togakure ryu."
it was cited...
"In fact there is hardly any Togakure ryu exposed on the internet."
then why don't the BJK say that? why do they, including hatsumi, say that the proof is already published.. but nobody can ever show it, name it, cite it...
its not that i say it doesn't exist, just that in 3 years nobody can direct me to it...
Actually it does make them an authority on the subject... since they're knowledgeable in the field. Since they study Ninjutsu. Chris Parker like I said has lineage to Takamatsu-den arts.
And thus if I need information about Bujinkan... I can ask him and he can provide sources.
Thus the sources I provided came from what he has told me. And you are free to go pick up copies of those sources and read for yourself.
There are outside sources that relate the same thing as Takamatsu(Along with Japanese researchers that agree)... can you prove Takamatsu got this information JUST from books?
@BlackShinobiShozoku Where exactly does he say that? Because he seems to talk about the art of the ninja within many of his books. Even inherent within the titles and ryu. Look, I don't claim to be an expert on anything here. But there are too many people on here claiming that they know everything about everything. Not to mention spend far to much time arguing or trying to brainwash everyone to their holier then thou opinion that bullshit has to reign supreme. Arteanor is a prime example.
I highly doubt it... as no one in Bujinkan(atleast all the high ranking and renowned ones I know) considers Hatsumi-san a Ninja. Nor do they consider themselves Ninja.
In fact... Bujinkan teaches very little Ninjutsu, most of it is passed down ancient samurai arts.
@BlackShinobiShozoku There are 3 Ninpo schools out of the nine. The art is a hybrid of them all. Not just one school. So Ninjutsu is apart of the art. Therefore Ninja. 2/3s of the books Hatsumi has written are about Ninjutsu. The sword work in Bujinkan is not strict samurai sword work, in fact it's the opposite.
Better yet, this blowhard who obviously likes to show off for the camera can just show something other than staged "fights" between him and his idiot, obedient students.
Budo is a strange martial art. It is highly effective but you don't have to be strong physically. It isn't aggressive or flashy so people who have not done it just don't get it. Those holds and strikes are very painful and they take the fight right out of you. Skilled practitioners have a high tolerance for pain and they know how to apply it as well.
thats a bit of a misnomer. budo basically means martial art, there are entirely separate arts which are drastically different that ALL fit underneath the title of budo, which fits into/under bujutsu.
it is also worth noting that while this video does contain budo, it does NOT contain ninjutsu...
try and walk through cro cop like that
channelin 7 months ago
@channelin yeah... hows that tap out shirt treating you
tburhenn 2 months ago
@tburhenn hit a nerve?
channelin 2 months ago
@channelin lol more like a funny bone. I love the concept of comparing individuals to another in order to try and prove some sort of point. you have never meant either of them so stop acting like youre some kind of fight promoter. you want to try and show up an art, you have to do it yourself. and please, wear the tap out shirt if you choose to do so.
cheers
tburhenn 2 months ago
@tburhenn im not even going to get into this. take care
channelin 2 months ago
@channelin
:)
tburhenn 2 months ago
that's one slippery dude
the26thhour 8 months ago
once upon a time ninjutsu wasn't even ninjutsu. It was a number of poor people over many, many years searching for, studying, coming up with and trying different teachings to defend themselves against their opressers. so who's to say what ninjutsu is not if its effective against the ememy!?
hasmat202 8 months ago
@hasmat202
"It was a number of poor people "
sounds like your still trying to fit it into the comic book mold.
"over many many years searching for, studying, coming up with and trying different teachings to defend themselves against their opressers."
can you cite a historical source for this 'oppressors' nonsense.
"so who's to say what ninjutsu is not if its effective against the ememy!?"
real shinobi, like the ones who wrote the Shoninki, Bansenshukai, and Ninpiden.
ninjutsu ISNT martial arts
Arteanor 7 months ago
Ninjutsu or not. I'm practising it and its working. My friends used it in real fight, and i did as well. And it works.
DragoonDragonFan 8 months ago
people should all stop arguing, i am a practitioner of this art and this is the only real source of ninjutsu alive today, i wish you all the best whatever you train in etc.. Gambatte
kylebujinkan 9 months ago
@kylebujinkan
there is absolutely no evidence for you claim that there is ninjutsu to be found in this organization....
there is also absolutely no evidence that ninjutsu is or includes any sort of martial arts component...
you may want to delete your comment, since i just proved your argument wrong to the last guy below us....
just read that, and then go read the scrolls listed.
you know BUPKIS about ninjutsu kiddo, and you will never learn if you only listen to fakes.
Arteanor 8 months ago
@kylebujinkan you may practice it but you seem to lose control of the mentality. that shows a lack of respect. "kylebujinkan" you advertise well.
tburhenn 2 months ago
Well i was going to read all these comments and try and draw a conclusion about what everyone was saying...but after skimming quite a bit of it...I realized there are just a bunch of trolls on here that are really good at looking up wikipedia information and back peddling a lot...I'm talking to you "Kommisar" and "Arteanor". Everybody seems to be a damn expert about something they don't seem to practice...a lot of arguing about ninjutsu and nothing about ninpo...funny. Have fun guys.
gamertildeath00 10 months ago
@gamertildeath00
"I realized there are just a bunch of trolls on here that are really good at looking up wikipedia information and back peddling a lot"
isn't always the BEST when kids spout off like they're hard, just because they know you can't cuff em in the head?
the funniest part of this is that hatsumi has a CREW of people that POLICE his wiki, in addition, the same people constantly MAKE UP articles and cite nothing,
i cited the shinobi manuals, wikipedia that fool.
waste of my time
Arteanor 10 months ago
@Arteanor Damn bro, sorry...I didn't know you were the master and know all encyclopedia of all things martial arts...or not martial arts according to you. Most martial art forms borrow techniques from other styles...that's their way of adapting to what is necessary...For example, if a martial artist says, I just got my ass whooped by Taijutsu, I need to adapt to counter that better...
Bujinkan and Ninjutsu do have A LOT in common...but I guess I can't argue with the MA encyclopedia.
gamertildeath00 9 months ago
@gamertildeath00
"Most martial art forms borrow techniques from other styles..."
o, k.... i don't like the logical fallacies your setting up here... what does what martial arts have to do with someone ripping off history?
"...For example, if a martial artist says, I just got my ass whooped by Taijutsu, I need to adapt to counter that better..."
but the 'taijutsu' of bujinkan is ENTIRELY compiled by takamatsu himself... you make my case for me that it has no connection to ninjutsu
Arteanor 9 months ago
@gamertildeath00
"Bujinkan and Ninjutsu do have A LOT in common..."
you base this on WHAT ?? do you have a source for this knowledge of ninjutsu? or is your only source the student of a person who MADE UP his connection TO NINJUTSU. hell he doesn't even know any ninjutsu,
"but I guess I can't argue with the MA encyclopedia."
no your problem is that you can't argue with the scrolls... Bansenshukai, Shoninki, and the Ninpiden... we can see what ninjutsu WAS, and what it WASN'T.
Arteanor 9 months ago
@Arteanor No, I can't argue with someone who thinks they know it all...I'm out...
gamertildeath00 9 months ago
@gamertildeath00
yes, keep pretending that this is something you have to take my word for.
still no historical documentation?
no sources? NADA?
methinks you ought to have something more substantial when you are asking to rewrite history than ' well my teacher told me....' ESPECIALLY when that goes in the face of all recorded history of the country.
you are out of your element.
go READ the shinobi manuals. BANSENSHUKAI, NINPIDEN SHONINKI!
what sources do you have??
Arteanor 9 months ago
anybody else has noticed that punches are always half meter from hatsumi's body?
ridg00 10 months ago
@ridg00
the answer to that is available by looking at the MASSIVE number of people that PAY for hatsumi's 'ninjutsu' despite the fact that none of them seem to notice that from the demo's shown BY HATSUMI, his own art is useless... HOWEVER, it is ALSO entirely a LIE... he has NO CONNECTION to any sort of ninjutsu...
Arteanor 10 months ago
Comment removed
gamertildeath00 10 months ago
@Arteanor You obviously know very little about Ninjutsu or Bujinkan. (A majority of martial arts aren't like this style) What ridg00 stated could be accurate in the fact that in 99% of all videos, they are simply doing demonstrations and not full on sparring. If anyone were to actually try to spar with Sensei Hatsumi he would probably have to use a lot of restraint to keep them alive. All the techniques in this style are designed to kill or completely subdue quickly and accurately.
gamertildeath00 10 months ago
@gamertildeath00
"You obviously know very little about Ninjutsu or Bujinkan."
those 2 have no relation.
if your only frame of reference for ninjutsu is the lies of hatsumi, you have some homework to do, Bansenshukai, Ninpiden, Shoninki... go READ the shinobi manuals... then come talk hard.
asserting the supernatural power of hatsumi always good for the lulz...
too bad all of the techniques are part of other martial arts, and have nothing to do with ninjutsu, he just tagged the name on it.
Arteanor 10 months ago
Comment removed
gamertildeath00 9 months ago
No wonder ninjas went extinct!
jooqan 1 year ago
I never said don't question... where did I say this? lol.
I don't mind if you question Hatsumi... Feel free.
-Btw I watched the Video.
Anthony strawmanned a lot of what Mr. Parker said.
Not only that I love how Anthony writes off what Parker said just because he doesn't provide a page number etc etc.
The reason Anthony does this... is because he doesn't have access to these sources. Same tactic I see you using as well. That is not research, my friend.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"I never said don't question... where did I say this? lol."
"you really don't have much to say until you prove them to be wrong"
do you not see that ' not having things to say' is like you advocating i censor myself to protect your fantasy?
"Anthony strawmanned a lot of what Mr. Parker said."
then u did NOT watch the video, check the start.
"Anthony writes off what Parker "
"The reason Anthony does this... is because he doesn't have access to these sources"
ASSERTION
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
antony writes off what parker says because it is either based on people who are simply regurgitating what hatsumi has said, based purely off of his own words of course... or it is pure speculation, just like YOU are speculating at the reasons for antony's course of action...
well we don't write history or science books based on one guys say so....
the problem is, that if he wants to have his claims to ninjutsu be substantiated, he is going to have to prove them. publicly, DEAL ok?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor: in my inbox i have a message from anthony saying that hatsumi and the bujinkan do teach authentic ninjitsu , "the issue is whether they are a direct lineage". i certainly got taught most of the things anthony talked about in his video's and never thought anything of it until i went to you tube to see this sort of carry on. for gods sake its a mishmash of styles developed according to which clothes you wore and where you came from. you miss the point of bujinkan entirely, poor u.
proteagrower 1 year ago
@proteagrower
"in my inbox i have a message from anthony saying that hatsumi and the bujinkan do teach authentic ninjitsu"
prove it, a screen cap video should suffice.
""the issue is whether they are a direct lineage""
it wouldnt matter if he DID say it, that still doesnt make it true.
"i certainly got taught most of the things anthony talked about in his video's " such as? and under who?
why is it that none of the other members of the buj have stepped forward to say the same??
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor why dont you ask anthony if the question is one of direct lineage.
why dont you look at some of his video's and responses to comments where he says that too.
how should i know why bjk in n.z. seems to include more than whats typically shown?
why on earth would 'one' be teaching ninjitsu to just anyone? its hardly responsible is it?.
why do you ask so many dumbass questions? your just gonna get all jumped up and silly when you read this arent you.
'scared bra?' lol i quote you
proteagrower 1 year ago
@Arteanor look at choson ninja vs takamatsu, quoting anthony 'noone says they dont sometimes teach ninjutsu'
the question isnt about the techniques, its about where they came from originally. accusations of plagerisim ect are rampant in this debate; quit with the silly statements and questions
proteagrower 1 year ago
@proteagrower
"noone says they dont sometimes teach ninjutsu'"
antony is referring to the small segments of supplementary ninjutsu from the research likely done by takamatsu....
but it shows the integrity of your argument that you have to try and quote mine him.
"the question isnt about the techniques, its about where they came from originally. accusations of plagerisim ect are rampant in this debate; quit with the silly statements and questions"
then stop claiming shit. or prove what u claim
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor well, i did prove it. its up on you tube in the public domain just as i said. in fact i directly quoted you/anthony/its just too easy
i cant comment on other peoples experience of the bujinkan, only mine and what/how people have taught me.
'but it shows the integrity of your argument that you have to try and quote mine him'.
it really is too easy
anthony said its not the techniques, its the lineage. im ok with that.
jumped up and silly, just as predicted
u sad potty mouth
proteagrower 1 year ago
@proteagrower
"well, i did prove it. " did you? i didn't see you post a link to a video showing it in your inbox.... THAT would be proving it...
"its up on you tube in the public domain just as i said." uh, but it isn't,
"'but it shows the integrity of your argument that you have to try and quote mine him'.
it really is too easy"
so you respond to my dismissal of your argument due to it being a quotemine, by describing to me how easy it was to do???
look up quotemining.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@proteagrower
"anthony said its not the techniques, its the lineage. im ok with that."
it wouldn't matter who said that, WHY CAN'T you PROVE it IS ninjutsu?
we see copying from the prodigious amount of research these men did on the subject... we even see things like takamatsu telling the BRD, that the lineage for togakure had TEN / ELEVEN of the "greatest shinobi ever" in the bansenshukai.
"jumped up and silly, just as predicted"
says the guy relying on logic fallacy
u sad potty mouth"
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor This is so fake !
crazytempest 10 months ago
@crazytempest lol, well if you really want to find out if you're right...go to one of the next seminars and ask to fight with the head speaker/sensei...have fun with that bud.
gamertildeath00 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
black:"which you hinted that you google everything I have typed."
me : saying i 'hinted' at something, is kind of like admitting you assumed something beyond my words...
this is the CLOSEST we have to me saying I hinted at anything... learn to fucking read kid.
Arteanor 1 year ago
are those*
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
I of the Ebimo Dartata Maika Ju Jitsu Clan of Kumaritsa, Bulgaria.....challenge Mister Miyagi .... erm sorry Mitsumi....to a no holds barred fight!!!
I'll beat the wrinkles out the old muthafucker!
By the way i'm in a wheelchair and pushing my 102nd birthday!!
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
He looks experienced. He should be being the last real ninja alive, officially I mean, but his students looks sooo fake. Look at them punching, not even trying to reach a target, just seem to be doing a show. And again, the comments are funny, funny how much shit people can talk! Thanks for video.
kigogot 1 year ago
@kigogot
"He looks experienced. He should be being the last real ninja alive"
uh he IS experienced. but he has no connection to any ninjutsu at all.
" officially I mean"
no, not officially not at all... he has NEVER shown any evidence for his claims to 'ninjutsu'
"but his students looks sooo fake."
this is because they are trying to emulate hatsumi without his exp.
"Look at them punching, not even trying to reach a target, just seem to be doing a show."
watch slapupchrist' bujinkan con
Arteanor 1 year ago
You know there are a ton of internet tough guys here on youtube. Hatsumi is doing these moves slow for instructional purposes. If you people were so intelligent you'd figure that out. Ninjutsu is such broad tactical martial art that you can't explain it like JuJitsu. Too many jocks on this thing with no respect for anything. Hatsumi is truly the last ninja. All the naysayers don't know what they are talking about.
Moviebro 1 year ago
@Moviebro
"Hatsumi is doing these moves slow for instructional purposes
the speed of tech does not change that it was never ninjutsu.
"If you people were so intelligent you'd figure that out. Ninjutsu is such broad tactical martial art that you can't explain it like JuJitsu"
uh no, it is entirely NOT a martial art, therefore explaining its lack of definition in your eyes.
"Hatsumi is truly the last ninja"
thats not what the koryu boards say.
but you know better than all of them right??
Arteanor 1 year ago
Comment removed
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
@Arteanor Actually Ninjutsu is a martial art.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
this is simply an assertion.
since we both know that there is no evidence of any fighting techniques, striking, locks... anything that the rest of the world would think about when you say martial arts....
is it a military art? of course, but so is the placement and digging of latrines, if ninjutsu is a martial art, then so is latrine digging....
fair concession?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks about martial arts. It's about what actual practitioners of martial arts(in this case more particularly those of traditional Japanese budo). In which your definition of martial arts is skewed. Martial art is a philosophy which gets expressed through physical techniques.
These physical techniques do not have to be just "locking someone in joint lock or choking them"
So no fair concession.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks about martial arts. It's about what actual practitioners of martial arts(in this case more particularly those of traditional Japanese budo)"
uh, problem, the REST of that community says that ninjutsu ISN'T a martial art... the only people trying to shoe it over the line is takamatsu-den...
"In which your definition of martial arts is skewed."
i fail to see how...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor You still have definition of martial arts skewed. And once again it doesn't matter on what "you" think martial arts are. It's what they actually are... Which goes a lot deeper than being codified practices and tradition. It goes by philosophy. Whether you like it or not. Martial arts are philosophy in which get represented in physical techniques. Ninjutsu has a general philosophy that gets represented in physical techniques.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"You still have definition of martial arts skewed. And once again it doesn't matter on what "you" think martial arts are"
that is why i cited from the referenced wiki....
and since my definition sees fit to include all of the arts EXCEPT the ONE you are trying to shoe in.... and needs no bulky quantifiers, meaning it is objective, it is a superior definition...
yours is subjective, making for an overly broad definition...
your missing the point of defining it...
LIMIT
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Doesn't matter if you cited from the reference wiki... going with the best definition that DESCRIBES martial arts. You are lacking.
I am not.
So it is always better to go with what works... especially if you're pragmatic like myself.
And actually it fits in martial arts.... It's just clear you don't understand it quite yet. Because this definition requires a bit more thought process.(Most westerners don't understand Eastern concepts very well)
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Doesn't matter if you cited from the reference wiki"
ya, who needs referenced sources, especially in fake schools....
"going with the best definition that DESCRIBES martial arts."
but you seem to be IGNORING that this is NOT how definitions are made...
'You are lacking. I am not."
says the guy who doesn't think verifiable sources are a good tool, and who doesn't understand how definitions are written....
and seriously? simply asserting your premise? thats all you have?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor Actually definitions are usually made by an agreement of a large population or small group. And definitions are subject to change as semantics is a subjective topic. Therefore I go by the definition which works best(being that I am pragmatic and like to use things that work better). Which what I am saying works much better and is much more detailed.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually definitions are usually made by an agreement of a large population or small group."
so pick, either the world at large, or the martial arts community... either way, the definition does not fit ninjutsu.
"Therefore I go by the definition which works best(being that I am pragmatic and like to use things that work better)."
but it doesn't have to work at all. you actually clarified nothing, and occlude much...
hence why the definition used by the community is.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually it does fit Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu itself has an obvious philosophy which goes hand and hand with the job of the Ninja. The techniques of Ninjutsu seems to generally fit the philosophy that would be required of a Ninja to be successful. This is seen in books like Bansenshukai and Togakure-Ryu.
And my explanation of martial arts actually does come from the Martial Arts community. Well those who are actually from martial arts and understand them.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Also what do you mean by "verifiable" source?
I consider myself a verifiable source on this topic. Since I am knowledgeable about martial arts.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Also what do you mean by "verifiable" source?"
uh, any legitimate historical source. i have been looking for over 4 years, it doesn't exist... because the school is fake....
"I consider myself a verifiable source on this topic. Since I am knowledgeable about martial arts."
and hence prove you have no clue what you are talking about...
i consider you a poor source since you were unable to follow the discrepancies in the stories to their inevitably fraudulent conclusion
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Oh so you have a legitimate historical source that proves definition of Martial arts? Well now! lol.
There are discrepancies in just about every Koryu story.
You do realize the Ryu stemming from Miyamoto Musashi considered him to live to about 120 years old.
When I think he (according to independent sources) died at a much earlier age. I think he died in his 60's. That doesn't mean the entire lineage is fraudulent though.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Oh so you have a legitimate historical source that proves definition of Martial arts?"
no, and i never claimed one. learn to read.
"There are discrepancies in just about every Koryu story."
uh, name some.
'You do realize the Ryu stemming from Miyamoto Musashi considered him to live to about 120 years"
CITE
"I think he died in his 60's. That doesn't mean the entire lineage is fraudulent though." it would.
it seems you take much you read online as fact with out verifying.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually in reference to me saying "Doesn't matter if you cited from the reference wiki"
You said
"says the guy who doesn't think verifiable sources are a good tool, and who doesn't understand how definitions are written..."
Mhmmm... Oh really?! lol
Actually I was wrong. It wasn't Musashi. It was Iizasa Ienao Choisai... and the Ryu teaches him to have lived 102years. While in a more historically accurate sense it was around 40years old he died.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually I was wrong."
it happens, now do u understand how important citations are?
"It wasn't Musashi. It was Iizasa Ienao Choisai... "
ya, cuz those 2 sound just the same...
"and the Ryu teaches him to have lived 102years. While in a more historically accurate sense it was around 40years old he died. "
so what?
what of it?
they had legends about people.... so you guys get to make up whatever you want?
that isn't how it works.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Well no... I'm just going by memory.
And sometimes I get things mixed up, until I go relook it up.
Not a big deal really.
The point is... Katori Shinto Ryu has the date of their creator incorrect.(One example)
You said to point out any other discrepancies and I did. Other Koryu stories have the same discrepancies just like Togakure ryu.
Also Kukishin Ryu was an independent Ryu... Also found in Hontai Yoshin Ryu.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"You said to point out any other discrepancies and I did."
i said what? quote that back for me please.
"Other Koryu stories have the same discrepancies just like Togakure ryu."
but those schools can also prove with real and verifiable means that they have been at it since before 1868.
that IS why they are koryu, you cannot prove past takamatsu...
"Also Kukishin Ryu was an independent Ryu"
not sure what you mean here,
"Also found in Hontai Yoshin Ryu"
kukishin is in hontai?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
And so can Togakure Ryu... a lot of it just isn't made public.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"And so can Togakure Ryu... a lot of it just isn't made public."
so when you make public claims, but private proof and answers... you are a CULT.... have a look at scientology, and they have you defending them...
gratz.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Not exactly... They are under no obligation to really prove anything to you. Maybe to its members, but not to you. I don't even really see how that would make anyone a cult.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Not exactly..."
so you get to decide whether people take the bujinkan seriously now?
"They are under no obligation to really prove anything to you."
i never said they were... however, THEY ARE, if they want to be taken seriously. and because of this, they aren't.
"Maybe to its members, but not to you."
so you end up with a bunch of faithful idiot beleivers for members, not a good basis for shinobi...
or maybe it's just me here that realizes shinobi used their brains....
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Well according to many Koryu members taking them seriously.
According to Japanese researchers that take them seriously.
I will stand by my "Not exactly"
They are taken seriously, there's only few that disagree with Bujinkan. And they really don't have much evidence to do so. They just use argumentum ad ignorantiam. Such as yourself.
Also apparently you didn't read my sentence. The members have access to the info, you don't.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Well according to many Koryu members taking them seriously."
can you show me where someone from a recognized koryu, WITH THE AUTHORITY to SPEAK for that KORYU, has spoken for the bujinkan's ninjutsu claims accuracy, and why.
"According to Japanese researchers that take them seriously."
who? you like to use titles, never names... cite some sources please, not just say u have...
'I will stand by my "Not exactly"'
you do that, it doesn't make you less wrong.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Can I show you?
Yeah just head over to e-budo anytime you feel like it.
Just like I said... I recall an established Koryu member on Martial Arts Planet calling Anthony an idiot.
He doesn't understand what hes talking about, because he doesn't understand Japanese culture.
And Japanese researches as listed. (Soya Shinja, Shimizu Chozo, Yumio Nawa, Koyama Ryutaro, and etc)
Which I don't even know why I am posting this, you will only ignore it.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"can I show you?" PLEASE.
"Yeah just head over to e-budo anytime you feel like it."
glad you have one... check these out:
showthread. php?t=38421
showthread. php?t=35175
'Just like I said... I recall an established Koryu member on Martial Arts Planet calling Anthony an idiot.'
who? i asked names. i also don't understand what relevance this has... it's a red herring fallacy for you to divert the subject to a hearsay ad hominem attack of a researcher.
Arteanor 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"And Japanese researches as listed. (Soya Shinja, Shimizu Chozo, Yumio Nawa, Koyama Ryutaro, and etc)"
this is NOT a citation. you need to give titles. page numbers....
"Which I don't even know why I am posting this, you will only ignore it."
why would i need to ignore a list of 3 names?
it isn't even a citation... seems you need to go look up how to do this...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Uhh you said give you "NAMES" geezus dude... Do you ALWAYS have to keep lying? I mean seriously... No one can get anywhere with you because you constantly change up things.
I gave you names of Japanese researchers that agree with Togakure ryu.
I do not REQUIRE citation or any of the other shit you asked for.
If you hint something, you're giving reason to believe something(therefore NOT assumption). IT's really that simple
Learn to use a dictionary.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"I gave you names of Japanese researchers that agree with Togakure ryu."
instead of listing WHERE they do this agreeing... and upon what evidence...
i asked you for citations, then explained the term since you didn't understand it.
"I do not REQUIRE citation or any of the other shit you asked for."
right, i do
"If you hint something, you're giving reason to believe something(therefore NOT assumption)."
BUT you asserted i was hinting, then made up a new position for me.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
You asked for Japanese researchers... You got them.
I do not need citations for that. Also you need to learn the definitions of asserted and assumptions.
And apparently you also need to learn the definition of "made up"
As long as I have a reason to believe this(which I based it off what you're saying). Then I am not doing none of the above.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
Comment removed
gamertildeath00 10 months ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Which goes a lot deeper than being codified practices and tradition."
how do you figure? and how do you figure that your implications of philosophy being included in this definition can be cited?
and how do you figure that philosophy isn't already a PART of those practices and traditions...
"Martial arts are philosophy in which get represented in physical techniques"
then why is that NEVER listed as the definition? ah because you made it up, no place in encyclopedia.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
To show you another example since you think it only fits "one martial art"
-Now remember each time I point out a statement you made that is incorrect, that discredits you on this topic.
Let us take a Korean art of Tae Kwon Do. The general philosophy of Tae Kwon do is "The foot is a far better weapon than the hand. A small mans legs are longer than a large mans arms and stronger than arms of even the largest man. From this they believe you can make kicks stronger and as fast."
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"To show you another example since you think it only fits "one martial art""
HAHAHAHAHA a simple search of the comments shows you are lying... i never said this, to quote me saying so is intentionally dishonest, and entirely expected...
thank you for showing that the best defense that the bujinkan can teach you is to LIE .... be proud. i know i certainly am for busting you on this.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Oh well maybe I misread you.
"and since my definition sees fit to include all of the arts EXCEPT the ONE you are trying to shoe in."
< Either way you're still wrong. lol. Since what I described fits all MARTIAL ARTS.(which I capitalize martial arts for a reason).
And also I think you mean "intellectually dishonest" not "intentionally dishonest"
in which case I'm not being either.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"And also I think you mean "intellectually dishonest" not "intentionally dishonest"'
the fact you are being both, is slipping by you...
i have already caught you in a lie, i will be reposting it after our dialogue... i don't think you can get much more intentionally dishonest than simply fabricating a quote... can't you use the copy feature?
'in which case I'm not being either."
says the guy doing both...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
How have you caught me in a lie? I just said I guess I misread you, and then I re-quoted you. Now you're the one lying in order to use argumentum ad hominem.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@Arteanor And furthermore what do you mean no evidence of "fighting techniques, striking, and locks etc etc"
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
'These physical techniques do not have to be just "locking someone in joint lock or choking them"
your right, but they DO have to be physically combative techniques.... and there is no evidence for these in ninnjutsu....
"So no fair concession."
so you are the entitled to the monopoly on your own definition of martial art that ninjutsu magically fits into?
i say that:
Martial arts are systems of codified practices and traditions of combat
no combat in ninjutsu, u fail.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor This philosophy normally deals with being simply put "sneaky" (avoiding as much contact with enemy and trying to escape). Due to the typical job of Ninja.
This can generate "combatitive" techniques or other techniques that help them in their cause. Which are all considered "martial"
There are other aspects of war besides a physical fight. One of the biggest jobs of warrior is gaining information on their enemy.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"this philosophy normally deals with being simply put "sneaky" (avoiding as much contact with enemy and trying to escape). Due to the typical job of Ninja."
so running away is a martial art? as long as i do it from a fight? that is quite the broad definition...
why not just argue the definition to be anything you can use in a sentence on the topic of war...
it would be more honest of you, rather than pretending to a definition that you have to subjectively moderate...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually making it that simple is not "artistic" nor does it seem like something that seeks to win a war of some sort.
Therefore no... I wouldn't say that is martial art.
It's really just you being "Silly" in a brash way.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@Arteanor And by "rest of community" you must be talking about Shinobi Soldiers "crew" because the only people I see saying Ninjutsu isn't a martial art is those supportive of Anthony Cummings.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"And by "rest of community" you must be talking about Shinobi Soldiers "crew""
uh, seems you are unfamiliar with the KORYU societies of the NKS, and the NKK...
" because the only people I see saying Ninjutsu isn't a martial art is those supportive of Anthony Cummings. "
since i have already told you about the koryu societies, this is a blatant, unadulterated LIE.
im disgusted with you.
not many people talk about DEAD military skillsets...
must mean u can say whatever..,
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually no I am not unfamiliar... but you are very unfamiliar about a lot of things. (Which I will point out a little bit later).
Yes I am familiar that you can choose to register to these societies and submit any records you have for criticism to them. In order to determine if your art is indeed a "Koryu" system. To my knowledge... hatsumi only allows his densho to be viewed with HIM present. And couple people have actually read them.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@Arteanor Also from what I hear most of the Ninpo/Ninjutsu in Bujinkan is passed through Kuden. I'm not sure I would have to confirm that with Bujinkan member. But anyways... I thought you were referring to Ninjutsu... not Bujinkan? Because I know Koryu folks allllllll agree that Ninjutsu is a Koryu art. Not modern creation.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"And furthermore what do you mean no evidence of "fighting techniques, striking, and locks etc etc""
did you have some problem understanding that?
and seriously. i know it ruins your quotemining, but can you ever manage to quote me entirely??
ah right, then you cannot lie about what i said...
there is NO evidence that ninjutsu IS or CONTAINS, ANY fighting techniques, martial arts, weapons or unarmed fighting, in any school.
challenge the statement?
PROVIDE EVIDENCE!
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Sure there is... you have Ninjutsu lineages like Togakure ryu that teaches fighting techniques.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Sure there is... you have Ninjutsu lineages like Togakure ryu that teaches fighting techniques."
uh, problem... the lineages of these 'ninjutsu' ryu are entirely without verification, citation, or any evidence beyond the say so of takamatsu toshitsugu...
but you knew this already, more of you being dishonest ( both still, be proud.)
i ALSO asked you to cite the evidence ( since you DO challenge the statement).
can't you manage that, its harder than asserting hmm?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually there is evidence beyond Takamatsu. Togakure ryu is also traced back with Kukishin lineage. In Sengoku Ninpo Zukan, Okuni Izumo who is known as previous Soke of Kukishin Ryu Happo Biken is the son in law of Toda Eisaburo Nobumasa who is previous Soke of Togakure ryu. And there is also other old documents that relating the same stuff as Takamatsu. Along with non Togakure ryu Japanese researchers that agree.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
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@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually there is evidence beyond Takamatsu. Togakure ryu is also traced back with Kukishin lineage."
kukishin has no connection to shinobi.
"In Sengoku Ninpo Zukan, Okuni Izumo who is known as previous Soke of Kukishin Ryu Happo Biken is the son in law of Toda Eisaburo Nobumasa who is previous Soke of Togakure ryu."
but isn't in any lineage charts?
"And there is also other old documents that relating the same stuff as Takamatsu" CITE THEM, or is this MORE fiction...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Didn't say Kukishin ryu has connections to shinobi
Who isn't in any lineage charts?
Shoninoki and Koshu Ryu densho are example sources which relate to things Takamatsu claims or said.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Didn't say Kukishin ryu has connections to shinobi"
says who?
kukishin was TOLD this BY TAKAMATSU... he is the only person who has seen this supposed documentation...
and it was miraculously enough... destroyed... ah but takamatsu 'replaced it'.... not a historical source.
"Who isn't in any lineage charts?"
sorry, my bad, happo biken's lineage is irrelevant,
as it is unconnected to takamatsu's recreation of happo biken.
"Shoninoki and Koshu Ryu densho "
SHONINKI n CITE.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Kukishin was told this?
I'm just pointing out that independent sources verify Toda/Togakure existance. Since Okuni Izumo had a father in law which is listed in Togakure Ryu lineage.
Not only that you have mentioning of them in Tammon In Nikki, Iranki, and Mikawa go Fudo-Ki
The Shoninki also mentions the word "Ninpo" which is a term Takamatsu also used.
Koshu ryu densho also talks about Koshu Ryu Jingai Jutsu Togakure Ryu Kaneru
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
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@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Kukishin was told this?" yes, takamatsu is the person who 'found' it in their paperworks. so i read...
"I'm just pointing out that independent sources verify Toda/Togakure existance." says who? what did they verify? show me please.
"since Okuni Izumo had a father in law which is listed in Togakure Ryu lineage."
odd fact to know, where did you hear this?
"Not only that you have mentioning of them in Tammon In Nikki, Iranki, and Mikawa go Fudo-Ki"
take this to TSOAS2008
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Yeah I know Mr. Parker(I've talked to him on a weekly basis). He has debated Anthony before and Anthony(TSOA) has yet to respond.
And you act like I can just post things on youtube for you to see.
The only REAL way you can get information about Koryu... is from the Koryu members themselves.
And the burden of proof is flipped... as you have been provided with sources.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobi..
"Yeah I know Mr. Parker(I've talked to him on a weekly basis). He has debated Anthony before and Anthony(TSOA) has yet to respond"
you mean debated at? i hope you don't mean on MAP, which he and i have both boycotted after the modabuse
"And you act like I can just post things on youtube for you to see."
yes, or a location i can find it. is that a problem?
"The only REAL way you can get information about Koryu... is from the Koryu members themselves"
and THEY say your wrong
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
No, Chris Parker actually doesn't go on martial arts planet much... he prefers not too.(I don't know why)
But I know him from other forums. Hes even helped me out in explaining things to me.
I did post locations where you can find them.... Reread my post.
You speak for Koryu members?
Actually I seem to recall a certain Koryu member calling Anthony an "idiot" lol
specifically as noted.
In otherwords... Bujinkan itself is not Koryu. It's a modern interpretation of Koryu schools.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
he has a source in japan that can verify them.... get in touch with him, i can't believe you haven't been in on the investigation of togakure vids yet...
"The Shoninki also mentions the word "Ninpo" which is a term Takamatsu also used."
so what? the shoninki was already public, it was common knowledge to the field... takamatsu knew and used that.
"Koshu ryu densho also talks about Koshu Ryu Jingai Jutsu Togakure Ryu Kaneru"
where can i see this? do we have photos/copies?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Also who is "You guys"?
Lol. I didn't know I was more than one person.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
AAAAAAAAAHHH
i caught you now...
you are simply quoting from message boards.... seems i am simply good enough to google the precise post you read... that chris parker sure can build a strawman....
too bad he can't knock down the things antony has said...
that is the entire point of his list...
to flip the burden of proof... by mere assertion.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
As I am NOT apart of Bujinkan... therefore do not have access to Togakure ryu information.
The only way I can, is to associate with those who are apart of Bujinkan.
Well Chris Parker isn't apart of the Bujinkan... but has lineage from the Bujinkan org.
I also have other very knowledgeable Bujinkan friends. That I also quote from.
Big deal? Doesn't matter the source... matters the validity.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"As I am NOT apart of Bujinkan... therefore do not have access to Togakure ryu information."
so why are you wasting my time.
'Well Chris Parker isn't apart of the Bujinkan... but has lineage from the Bujinkan org.'
uh, then he has NO business talking about ninjutsu.
"I also have other very knowledgeable Bujinkan friends. That I also quote from."
so what? it doesn't make their opinions correct.
"Doesn't matter the source... matters the validity"
what validity?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually Chris Parker is up there on the list with Don Roley. When it comes to getting information about Ninjutsu. The stuff that Anthony is repeating from Bansenshukai and etc. Are really things that are already known lol. And they are also found in the Togakure Ryu curriculum.
Anthony tends to make the mistake that most of what is represented in Bujinkan is Togakure.... When in reality most of Bujinkan is samurai school teachings.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually Chris Parker is up there on the list with Don Roley."
good, i talked to don, he relied entirely on assuming the very same points you do... thank you for providing me further reason not to take your word for it....
" Anthony tends to make the mistake that most of what is represented in Bujinkan is Togakure.... When in reality most of Bujinkan is samurai school teachings"
then why are they marketed as ninjutsu? and why is the curriculum same as 'ninpo taijutsu'??
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually the only person doing the assuming is you... you haven't really did any research outside of "google"
which you hinted that you google everything I have typed. Kinda hard to prove something to someone who only relies on his google searches for verification. He doesn't actually talk to the Koryu members. If someone wanted to find out something about my family... They will come to ask my family members. Reasonable enough?
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually the only person doing the assuming is you..."
kindly point out my assumptions with quotations next time, it makes it easier to prove you to be lying.
"you haven't really did any research outside of "google""
uh, books being uploaded to the internet ruins half your argument, and yoshie running around japan doing the checking in japan demolishes the second.
cite any source i can have it checked in under a week, get serious kid.
i
Arteanor 1 year ago
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@Arteanor
"kindly point out my assumptions with quotations next time, it makes it easier to prove you to be lying."
< You have claimed I am asserting as well without pointing out claims I haven't backed up.
"uh, books being uploaded to the internet ruins half your argument"
Books being uploaded to the internet... lol WHAT BOOKS?
Most of them are Japanese and I HIGHLY doubt you read Japanese. I can verify that
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"which you hinted that you google everything I have typed."
saying i 'hinted' at something, is kind of like admitting you assumed something beyond my words...
i see this often from people hiding things, they assume others do likewise...
"Kinda hard to prove something to someone who only relies on his google searches for verification"
STRAWMAN? i rely on the historical evidence for MY verification.
"He doesn't actually talk to the Koryu members."
another assumption?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually saying you "hinted" means I was given reason to believe something based off what you had said. (-facepalm-)
Actually no you don't rely on historical evidence for your verification. I have provided plenty of sources and then you went off on a tangent about how Chris Parker said the same thing.
Which could be considered Red Herring Fallacy if you want to be blunt.
But since i'm being nice....
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually saying you "hinted" ' i didn't though, you said that. and by admitting you take my words as hints you admit your assumption.
"means I was given reason to believe something based off what you had said. (-facepalm-)"
based on YOU saying i hinted it? or me ASKING why you said i hinted it? read again noob.
'Actually no you don't rely on historical evidence for your verification.'
strawmanning me still?
repeat your citation, that was all i asked.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"I have provided plenty of sources and then you went off on a tangent about how Chris Parker said the same thing."
and as such indicates to me that you are not citing a source you know anything about, simply regurgitating someone else's assumptions....
"Which could be considered Red Herring Fallacy if you want to be blunt."
except that i never changed it to the topic, simply indicated that message board posts are bad sources....
"But since i'm being nice...."
sure
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
"and as such indicates to me that you are not citing a source you know anything about, simply regurgitating someone else's assumptions...."
...Of Which you still didn't prove wrong.
"except that i never changed it to the topic, simply indicated that message board posts are bad sources...."
That's argumentum ad hominem.
Also I looked at those threads I really didn't see anything to help your case. I read up to 5 pages on both. And I saw a lot of the same things I have said.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Of Which you still didn't prove wrong."
but the post doesn't contain historical citations either... beyond the fake ones....
is there a REASON you are doing this here instead of on TSOAS2008's investigation into togakure ninjutsu vids?
'"simply indicated that message board posts are bad sources...."
That's argumentum ad hominem.'
uh no it isn't, there is nothing personal about the attack, learn logic... its latin for 'to the man' SOOO 'Learn to use a dictionary. '
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Yeah there is a reason... Chris parker has already done it on Anthony's video. Anthony never replied. The post contains sources for your to look up. Now... if he didn't even give you something to look up. And just made the claim. THEN you would be correct. But since you have sources in which you can physically go check out. Then.. .you really don't have much to say until you prove them to be wrong. The same way Buffon said "Nishna is not in Genpei Seisuiki"
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Yeah there is a reason... Chris parker has already done it on Anthony's video. Anthony never replied."
so you missed the entire video about chris's assumptions based on the word of hatsumi?
"if he didn't even give you something to look up. And just made the claim. THEN you would be correct"
or if he said something different was there than what is... as happened with genpei seisuiki...
"you really don't have much to say until you prove them to be wrong"
then im a soke 2.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
What entire video? Please post it.
When did Chris Parker say anything about Genpei Seisuiki? I've never heard HIM bring that up, nor have I heard Don Roley bring it up. Can you show me where this is brought up?
Soke of what?
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"What entire video? Please post it."
did you even watch ANY of them? its evidence for togakure ninjutsu 8 mentions him at a scant 13 seconds....
= omJb0iZz2zI
"Soke of what?"
what does it matter?
since you know nothing of any arts i have claimed to even know, or could easily make up any number of fake names... and since proving things that are imaginary to be non-existent is tricky....
"you really don't have much to say until you prove them to be wrong" REMEMBER?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Well you just admitted "Since you know nothing of any arts I have claimed to even know, or could easily make up any number of fake names"
You admitted to being a fraud... so I really don't have to do much from this point. To have reasonable doubt.
I will watch the video later.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Well you just admitted "Since you know nothing of any arts I have claimed to even know, or could easily make up any number of fake names"
You admitted to being a fraud... so I really don't have to do much from this point. To have reasonable doubt."
NO, i simply provided an example.
i showed that your idea of not questioning it unless you can PROVE it is fake... is an assumptive stance...
you just dont like when i used the same as hatsumi did...
ya u check your lie out
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
I am more familiar on this topic of logic than you are.
Argumentum ad hominem can also be the case for more than just a personal attack on the man. Attack on the source can also be an argumentum ad hominem.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"I read up to 5 pages on both. And I saw a lot of the same things I have said."
so you are just going to keep on spouting that there are books that support togakure ninjutsu without knowing that they exist?
doesn't that bother your sense of integrity? do you have any?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
The same way you dismiss my claims without checking into them.
Until you do something in the example of what Buffon has done... I have no reason to believe you. Although I see it as highly unlikely "named" sources and "named" people are made up. So I am more inclined to believe so.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
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@BlackShinobiShozoku
"He doesn't actually talk to the Koryu members."
because he has the words of the greater organization that houses the koryu members and their schools...
" If someone wanted to find out something about my family..."
i don't, this has nothing to do with family. you know that, its why toda can't be found. takamatsu's dad was married many times...
"They will come to ask my family members. Reasonable enough?"
but this isn't about family... it is EX-family-in-law... go study.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Last time I checked it's BBT "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu"
It went through a name change a long time ago.
So tell me... Do you know what is apart of the Togakure Ryu curriculum?
Why are you worried about names... you should be using empirical observations of the techniques they're using to determine what "ryuha" they're using the most.
Tell me where you see A LOT of Togakure ryu being demonstrated?
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
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@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Last time I checked it's BBT "Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu"
so? it hasn't changed the content from when it was 'ninpo' taijutsu...
which he also claimed as the MA of the shinobi in his books...
"It went through a name change a long time ago."
after he got funny looks when he couldnt prove the nin part, he has been distancing himself from it.
'So tell me... Do you know what is apart of the Togakure Ryu curriculum?'
positively? 100%? no, mostly, sure. care to elaborate?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
I know they haven't changed the content. But what you DON'T understand... that the content you see is barely Togakure ryu. In fact there is hardly any Togakure ryu exposed on the internet.
That is the reason for the name change.
So you don't know what is apart of Togakure ryu curriculum... yet You think you're in a position to tell us that Bujinkan claims that most of what it is doing is togakure(because of a previous name)
Funny!
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
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@BlackShinobiShozoku
"I know they haven't changed the content."
then why do you argue about it?
"you DON'T understand... that the content you see is barely Togakure ryu."
it was cited...
"In fact there is hardly any Togakure ryu exposed on the internet."
then why don't the BJK say that? why do they, including hatsumi, say that the proof is already published.. but nobody can ever show it, name it, cite it...
its not that i say it doesn't exist, just that in 3 years nobody can direct me to it...
Arteanor 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
'That is the reason for the name change.'
the internet? elaborate please. 'So you don't know what is apart of Togakure ryu curriculum'
no, i said i am not POSITIVE, as in i haven't heard it from hatsumi's mouth, so do i KNOW it, no. seems you missed that...
"yet You think you're in a position to tell us that Bujinkan claims that most of what it is doing is togakure(because of a previous name"
no i think its all the same mishmash of martial arts it always was, + new name
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually it does make them an authority on the subject... since they're knowledgeable in the field. Since they study Ninjutsu. Chris Parker like I said has lineage to Takamatsu-den arts.
And thus if I need information about Bujinkan... I can ask him and he can provide sources.
Thus the sources I provided came from what he has told me. And you are free to go pick up copies of those sources and read for yourself.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually it does make them an authority on the subject... since they're knowledgeable in the field."
but the problem is, that there is no ninjutsu being taught in the bujinkan or any takamatsu-den art... outside of what takamatsu learned from books...
"Since they study Ninjutsu."
they study an art they CLAIM to be ninjutsu, entirely without evidence.
"Chris Parker like I said has lineage to Takamatsu-den arts."
i agree, arts made by takamatsu is apt, good to use it.
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Actually... according to the evidence I posted.
There are outside sources that relate the same thing as Takamatsu(Along with Japanese researchers that agree)... can you prove Takamatsu got this information JUST from books?
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Actually... according to the evidence I posted."
wait what? did i miss that? run that by me again.
"There are outside sources that relate the same thing as Takamatsu"
why not name them?
"Along with Japanese researchers that agree)"independent researchers? names please.
"can you prove Takamatsu got this information JUST from books?"
NO, that is why i said, 'i THINK...' it is my own opinion... can you show me something undeniably ninjutsu that isn't from the books?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor
Oh boy... you're good at ignoring things.
The evidence i posted where you thought you "caught me" with your "google searches"
IN which I named MANY SOURCES. I mean seriously, anyone can look back at these comments and see that.
And sure I can show you something... Just look at Togakure ryu video from legit Takamatsuden practitioner.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
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@BlackShinobiShozoku
"Oh boy... you're good at ignoring things."
sorry, i didn't have time to answer the rest. get over yourself.
"The evidence i posted where you thought you "caught me" with your "google searches"
sorry, i asked you to repeat it, did you miss that?
"IN which I named MANY SOURCES."
and i asked you to repeat them,
"I mean seriously, anyone can look back at these comments and see that."
and see that they are not very clear. i asked for clarification.
like quotes, page# author?
Arteanor 1 year ago
@Arteanor Oh yeah and as far as "asserting a premise"
Uh no.. I didn't just "proof by assertion"
I actually explained why my explanation of martial arts is a lot better than yours.
Did you really make me go through all of that explaining just for you to ignore it and claim I'm doing "proof by assertion"?
That's pretty bad.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@Moviebro
I am not against Bujinkan, but Hatsumi is not a Ninja nor claims to be a Ninja.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku Where exactly does he say that? Because he seems to talk about the art of the ninja within many of his books. Even inherent within the titles and ryu. Look, I don't claim to be an expert on anything here. But there are too many people on here claiming that they know everything about everything. Not to mention spend far to much time arguing or trying to brainwash everyone to their holier then thou opinion that bullshit has to reign supreme. Arteanor is a prime example.
Moviebro 1 year ago
I highly doubt it... as no one in Bujinkan(atleast all the high ranking and renowned ones I know) considers Hatsumi-san a Ninja. Nor do they consider themselves Ninja.
In fact... Bujinkan teaches very little Ninjutsu, most of it is passed down ancient samurai arts.
BlackShinobiShozoku 1 year ago
@BlackShinobiShozoku There are 3 Ninpo schools out of the nine. The art is a hybrid of them all. Not just one school. So Ninjutsu is apart of the art. Therefore Ninja. 2/3s of the books Hatsumi has written are about Ninjutsu. The sword work in Bujinkan is not strict samurai sword work, in fact it's the opposite.
Moviebro 1 year ago
All my respect to Masaaki Hatsumi.
MitnalQuetzalkan 1 year ago
Nice tribute dr hatsumi is a legend.
hate the music so i watched it in ninjasilence;-)
MixedMartialArtsGirl 1 year ago
brillant pure genius
hbfranklinoneill 1 year ago
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kyomodo 1 year ago
I know plenty of non-MA who would kick this old bitch's ass, or any of his pussy students'. Hatsumi and his brand of garbage are pure bullshido.
kommisar 1 year ago
@kommisar So get them together, pay for the tickets to Japan, take the train and head to his house. His door is always open.
echsruler28 1 year ago
Better yet, this blowhard who obviously likes to show off for the camera can just show something other than staged "fights" between him and his idiot, obedient students.
kommisar 1 year ago
BUJINKAN IS THE BEST MARTIAL ART FOR SURVIVING IN THE REAL WORLD IF U DONT WANT TO DIE TAKE THIS MARTIAL ART
rickyirishman 1 year ago
@rickyirishman LOL
kyomodo 1 year ago
go maatsumi your the best ive learned so much from being taught by u thank u
rickyirishman 1 year ago
Brilliant video!
Budo is a strange martial art. It is highly effective but you don't have to be strong physically. It isn't aggressive or flashy so people who have not done it just don't get it. Those holds and strikes are very painful and they take the fight right out of you. Skilled practitioners have a high tolerance for pain and they know how to apply it as well.
VoyageurCountry 1 year ago
@VoyageurCountry
"Budo is a strange martial art."
thats a bit of a misnomer. budo basically means martial art, there are entirely separate arts which are drastically different that ALL fit underneath the title of budo, which fits into/under bujutsu.
it is also worth noting that while this video does contain budo, it does NOT contain ninjutsu...
Creationsofmyown 1 year ago
LARPing is fun!
christlicker 1 year ago