The Cave: An Adaptation of Plato's Allegory in Clay

[S2Cents]

Greek aristocrats like Plato knew about chaining people up in caves and keeping them in darkness.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents Plato abandoned his aristocratic heritage after the trial (judicial murder) of Socrates. Athenian life was shitloads better than the sociopathic gaylords of Sparta.

In Plato's "Republic" you find a whole bunch of material about corruption in political life and the PROBLEMS of having an aristocracy when it becomes corrupt (which meant it was no longer made up of the 'aristos' - BEST - people).

Plato didn't have the balls to be anarchist, so fuck him. Diogenes, bitchez. And Ikkyu.

[S2Cents]

@HieronymousAnonymous "aristos" Hmm, just saw that word recently. Until a couple days ago, dont recall seeing it before. Aristocracy is always corrupt. Too much power and wealth = aristocracy = corruption = eventual social and political turmoil and revolution = dictatorship = overthrow of regime = new dictatorship or temporary divided power arrangement between victorious factions..........

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents for me,NOBODY should be granted political power/rule (kraté, in Greek - that's where '-cracy' comes from).

That said, when we say 'aristocracy' we don't mean 'rule by the BEST' anymore.

Political life is ALWAYS parasitic - so it ALWAYS attracts the worst type pf sociopath; even in 'democracy' (which is just sanctified gang rape).

And ALL political types want more power to themselves. They are parasitic vermin who gain power by fooling the gullible - just like priests.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents not cynical: rational. Take a huge bucket of cash & power: all you have to do to control it, is to get the support of the gullible plus those who think they will benefit from you having power. Who wins that game? Liars.

The least-worst system: anarchy. This isn't just "something I learned on the internet": I graduated summa cum - & top of my graduating class - in Economics, straight firsts at Masters; dropped out of PhD (financial market salaries were MUCH more than my scholarship).

[S2Cents]

@HieronymousAnonymous I thought real anarchism is democratic.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents Nope - because under anarchism ("voluntaryism" is a better term), nobody can be forced to FUND things that they don't subscribe to.

If .gov can't TAX the people who don't vote for them (or who don't vote at all), and can't decree that they are on the hook for debts accrued by the State, then those who DO vote realise they can't get their policy wishes subsidised by the electoral 'losers'.

Besides, democracy always degenerates into Party-ocracy as corrupt as the worst aristocracy.

[S2Cents]

@HieronymousAnonymous could you briefly describe/define what anarchism is so I can understand?

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents anarchism is the absence of a coercive State (i.e., no government that can tax you under threat of punishment).

'Public' goods such as defence, public heath and welfare are funded by user-pays plus voluntary contribution and non-Ponzi insurance; contacts are enforced through competitive dispute-resolution organisations rather than monopoly 'courts'.

In short: our relationship with the State becomes similar to our relationship with religion and church.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents Oops - typo.

My previous response should read "CONTRACTs are enforced through competitive dispute-resolution organisations rather than monopoly courts.", not "CONTACTs... etc"

[S2Cents]

@HieronymousAnonymous I like this. But how could this anarchist society actually be brought about? And if this system were achieved, how could it realistically be maintained and not overthrown itself by corruption from within and/or eternal enemies?

[S2Cents]

-eXternal enemies- I meant. in my reply. And so?

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents that's the jillion-dollar question: in the past whenever the political class has finally driven any society into a ditch, the tendency is for the society to replace a now-acknowledged set of crooks (the Bourbons in France; the English Crown in the American colonies) with a self-styled 'saviour set' (e.g., the "Founding Fathers").

BUT this sets up a system that eventually becomes EXACTLY like the one being replaced. Always. Parasites gotta parasite, I guess.

[S2Cents]

@HieronymousAnonymous The next question then is this: is anarchism merely an unobtainable dream? If an anarchist society cannot realistically be achieved then is spending time considering it a waste of time? In any case what CAN be done and should we not focus on workable, real solutions? etc.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents depends on your timeframe.

In 1775 most folks thought that the idea of overthrowing English colonial rule was crazy-talk.

In 1800 if you said "Men should not be slaves" or "peasants should get the vote" you were part of the lunatic fringe.

In 1900 if you said "women should get the vote"... same thing.

In 1920 if you said "Socialism is ridiculous - the USSR is doomed", 'intellectuals' thought you were ignorant.

But someone at the time said each of those things. And here we are.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents also - not for nothin'... Iceland had a peaceful quasi-anarchic system (with market-based justice) from about 900AD to about 1300AD. 400 years.

By contrast: the US lasted less than ten years before it first embarked on huge internal slaughter (the expansion into native lands by force)... and less than 100 years after the Consitution was ratified the Civil War killed and maimed over a million people (60 years AFTER the UK and France had outlawed slavery peacefully).

[S2Cents]

@HieronymousAnonymous Regarding the Civil War- I find this history utterly fascinating. Couple points:Good time to be interested w/ it being the 150th anniversary. Anyway the European powers outlawing slavery and the US having to split in half and butcher itself -the Europeans were content to purchase the cotton produced by slaves and for various reasons didn't need or were encouraged by circumstances to be done w/ slavery I dont know if US had to fight to end it tho

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents one thing about anarchy is that there can't be 'corruption' as we use the term - with no ruling class there are no public resources (taxes, government land, government contracts) to be diverted to cronies. There might be attempts by firms to 'BECOME' a govt - but unless they can get people to comply voluntarily, the market simply won't let that happen. Folks think monopolies will take over - but most monopoly power is CAUSED by government policy favours.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@S2Cents last but not least - dealing with external threats is relatively easy. Just be like the Swiss - they had no army, but they let would-be invaders know that invading them would be trying to swallow a porcupine (Even the Nazis didn't try). If they come anyhow... well, since WWII the Viet Cong, the Iraqi insurgency and the Afghans have humiliated 2 superpowers.

China knows that invasion-based resource acquisition is DUMB. They come to TRADE, and they're kicking the West's butt.

[Tamaresque]

So, what was the point of that? It would appear to be common sense.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@Tamaresque I don't think you know what common sense is - or how often it's wrong.

Every significant written work in human history states the obvious - compare the US Bill of Rights with "R v Huggett" or "R v Tooley" (both cases predate the Bill of Rights; both are English law; both concern individual common law Rights against abuse of power; both found AGAINST the Crown).

Or compare the Declaration of Independence with Etienne de la Boetie's "The Doctrine of Voluntary Servitude" from 1550.

[KiraWei1]

This is so sad and deep at the same time.

[pinkfedoragal]

I found this quite disturbing. I don't know what it is with really creepy stop-motion. I can handle Gumby and that's about it.

[tolefezzy]

fantastic

[miffification]

amazing upload!!!! thank you so much!

[DontMissVideos]

Did the prisoner who got out and came back to the cave got killed by his friends??

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@DontMissVideos no, he lived happily ever after.

Few people realise this, but later in life he got an Android tablet (he HATED ipads, because he was allergic to bullshit) and used the free 3G data allowance to participate in a "If You Hate Them" thread on 4chan /b/.

He was locked up under the NDAA and has not been seen since.

[RemohJS]

I thought the bridge/walkway was a great idea. It gives a sensical reason for why things are always passing between the sun and the cave wall.

But, key things were glossed over that I think would go missed by those unfamiliar with the story. The fact that they understood the shadows as reality should be more explicit.

The sun is the illuminator in all meanings. It is blinding at first, and unbelievable compared to our prior understanding of reality. The adjustment is not easy.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@RemohJS oh jesus wept... so the allegory needed to be more *precise*, to hold the hand of the reader and guide them through the process of understanding?

What are we, American public-school students?

1: It's an ADAPTATION.

2: *ALLEGORY* is DESIGNED to have multiple layers of interpretation. For example, the chains are convention or ignorance - depends how you look at it.

Maybe you should wait for the "3D Director's Cut" version on DVD... or maybe actually go and READ IT.

[lordofthewolves13]

Yeah. This was cool...I liked the look of it. But some vital parts were definitely left out! For instance, Before the prisoner leaves the cave, he is supposed to notice the fire and the people/animals and other stuff parading in front of it. Then he sees a light and heads toward it and exits the cave. Then there is a gradual awakening to higher reality...all of this stuff is vital to the allegory.

[jiveturkeyusa]

@lordofthewolves13 I guess this is all the modern masses on youtube can take in. 

[lordofthewolves13]

@jiveturkeyusa I guess so. Could've been much better, but the cut the most important stuff to the allegory! Oh well.

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@lordofthewolves13 it doesn't purport to be a full rendition of the allegory. I am pretty sure I have seen a fuller treatment of the allegory (perhaps it's at the site).

[iventov]

There are some important aspect of the Plato's epistemology out of that recreation. f. e. j. the analogy fo the fire and de sun or the process to turn the view from the external into the intelective. Very simple. I prefer Matrix recreation.

[MobileDudes]

whats the name of the song playing in the background at 140?

[MoOkS187]

Ive just read the myth of the cave or whatever you want to call it. my mind = blown

[HieronymousAnonymous]

@MoOkS187 anyone who reads the entire dialogue realises that it's mostly about how the majority only see the 'shadows' of political machinations; when confronted with the reality they get a shock, and if they try to convince the cave-dwellers of the error they're perpetuating they can't get them to 'get it'.

One of the last few lines is to the effect that philosophers should always be OPPOSED to the quest for political power. WORD.

[hgnishsihsa]

Liked it. Though I have a gripe and that is about not giving any credits or source of the music.

[Akatam0t0ma]

Awesome! 

[GzusCriest]

doesnt anyone see a comparison between The Matrix and Plato's cave?

I especially am refering to the scene where neo is told ppl are nothing more than bateries then he gets angry and distressed at first, vomits, collapses gets depressed and at last he acts uppon this knowledge.

[GenusCastor]

@GzusCriest Yes and its derived from this allegory and what you would expect from the human psyche, but the rest of the matrix was not more then a colourful way to display this allegory as well (with a story etc behind it, appealing to modern day people).

[YoukaiYoko]

Lol, I remember this last year. Used to tell the truth that most people don't try to find. In the passage, the men can't look apon objects directly, but theyre shadow, but slowly look at the direct object as if trying to find there own opinions and truths. FInally the direct truth is the sun itself. Enlightment of the world. The fire in the cave are suppose to be other peoples opinions that people believe. Like TV shows or politic infromation listened on the radio.

That's what I got from it.

[gpalegeo]

amazing shit this dude is a treasyrie

[BatteryEaters]

Fantastic visual adaptation! This is so close to what I imagined when I read The Republic back in university!

[Veritas12Truth]

What's up with the music...?

Kajra re from Bunty aur Bubli...wow. Who knew Bollywood would influence The Allegory of the Cave?

[dtacha]

hahaha all americans watch hollywood movies (which are not so different than shadows in the cave) but arabs are heroes of this video.. of course..

[pumpkinshellz]

Nice...Plato in play-doh

[Armistace]

They should have read the Allegory a little more closely. It's really important how angry the prisoner is at not understanding the real world. He only knows the shadows and at first the real world is the fake world to him. Not bad clay here, but for gods sakes get the shit right.

[mmyyddddd]

it is an adaptation so he can kinda go whatever way he wants to look at it. o at least he went that far close

[jiveturkeyusa]

@Armistace watch?v=d2afuTvUzBQ

This is a more accurate showing of Plato's Allegory of the Cave from the Republic. They did say this video was an adaptation.

[2323skidoo]

Good grief. After reading most of the comments, I first shook my head in pity at the intellectual vacuum and woeful derth of substantive curiosity; but then I shook my head in amusement. These comments: talk about appropriate.  :-)

[bakerb30]

this is in "the republic of plato" a text written by Plato who was the apostle of Socrates the prisoners are tied up facing a wall with a fire behind them and because a fire is in constant movement it acts as a puppeteer of sorts whenever anything comes between the fire and the prisoners now the story goes that the prisoner escapes the cave and after seeing the world for what it truly is desires to go back to tell the others when he does they kill him...you cannot speak of logos concerning being

[JeezVegas]

ATTENTION EVERYONE: SOCRATES CAME UP WITH THIS CONCEPT. THE ACCOUNT PERSON JUST MADE THE VIDEO.

Just wanted to clarify :)

[Bloodshotbuddah]

One of the best and worst parts of this story is that its an abstract, it can be applied to almost anything in order to give it meaning. I wish I could have heard Platos perception of the story it would have been something to hear.

[aidanjr69]

i thought the prisoner escaped? and also the part where he came out upon the moon and the stars before the sun

[swtgirl101]

and in the end dont they kill him?

[aidanjr69]

im not sure, i thought they just said they would kill him if he kept talking about 'The World of Forms' but it could relate to when Socrates was killed after he thought he should be the leader in society

[UnsociableZombieFoxx]

Very dark, very disturbing. Sad, more then anything.

[pmatian]

perfect

[YorkeTchock]

It's a really good way of showing Plato's idea, but it is important for all of those commenting to realise that the idea is not that of the people who made the video. The idea was thought up thousands of years ago. This video simply clarifies it in an easy-to-understand way.

Kudos to the people who made the video. I thought the narration and animation were both really effective.

[drawfd]

this is the matrix!!!

[hoggg11]

this is Plato...

[mq82288]

no plato was a phillospher a long time ago

[hoggg11]

dude listen , there is something called copyright , so Platos ideas are Platos ideas.... and matrix movie just use them.....

[PurplePigsGoMoo]

he/she means figuratively

[creeperburg]

I love claymation. Just like a Tool video.

[msweeper23]

this was very nice, the voice gave it a mytery feel to it.

good job.

[georgebushisawesome]

i was thinking how the cave allegory is an apt description for television....all simulated.

But I would encourage everyone to go and actually read a translation of the original Plato passage yourselves.

Lots of wisdom there. You may find answers to other questions.

[Justwosweet]

audio sux on my pc...

[zappasearcher]

I just picked up this from stef zucconi's blog. my god....this is fantastic. this really blew me away. thanks and well done.

wierd thing is I have just come back from India where I made my own cave and lived in it for six months. I am also a freeman-on-the-land and have come out of the "allegorical cave". thanks again, you have made me very happy. rich. my space dotcom / zappasearcher

[ivgotmailyay]

i just saw your lottory story on the t.v and i heard you mention bullhead entertainment.. so i looked it up and it came up with this and i dont see why this isnt real popular its amazing!! the story is good and i love the claymation :) 5/5 and gratz on winning the lotto :)