So am I correct in understanding that EVERYTHING will be taxed (even necessities) the proposed 23% but then people (based on their living situation) will get a monthly rebate (prebate) check to pay for those necessities?
If that's true then you're right in saying that if we give one thing an exemption, that now leaves room for "This should also not be taxed because of bla bla bla"
@FairTaxisaLie taxes r only payed because of a consumer. Without one, there is no income to tax. Business taxes r really just hidden taxes on consumers of American made. The poor & middle class not only pay their personal income & employee paid payroll taxes, but the cost of capital gains, corporate income, employer payed payroll taxes and the hidden cost/tax that is the regulatory burden of complying with the tax code whose cost average over $1,100 for every man woman and child in America.
oh gawd. the fkn fair tax will give the goverment the right to tax us.. wtf!!? the only legal tax is impost and excise, taxes on items bought.. read artical 1
Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. Compare vocabulary and style. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
Gravel is like a nice old drunk at the corner bar. He means well -- he really does. But someone fed him a bunch of shit -- and he has no clue.
Fairtax sounds great -- but because it's fucking insane -- it's not great. It's own leaders know that it's bullshit.
It pretends to tax the fucking GOVERNMENT -- all government except schools. That means taxing the miliitary, taxing medicare, taxing cities and states/
Why pretend to tax the government? So their math would "work".
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I read the second crazy ass book too dumb fuck. It's even worse,. They say essentially "Of course the federal government will pay this tax -- because city and states will pay it too!"
Fucking insane shit. No dumb fuck -- Feds wont ever pay this tax. Nor will cities and states dumb fuck.
Tell you what dumb fuck -- let me be there when you idiots try to collect 50 billion in taxes from California state government.
Not gonna happen retard, and FT knows it. Its a fucking farce.
So here is what you dumb morons think. No one will pay any taxes -- no person, no business. NO FICA taxes, no social security taxes, no income taxes, ect.
But ALL taxes will be magically within the price of stuff we ALREADY buy.
You dumb fucks -- ITS A FUCKING FARCE. IT's not a real tax plan - they are fucking lying to your dumb ass.
They are NOT trying to pass their own plan. No one is trying to pass this in Congress, NO ONE.
And to cover you're next outburst along the lines of: "blah, blah, government pays taxes to itself is BS, blah, blah, Dumb fuck, blah, pg 148, whine, whine, FairTax book."
read ch 10 question 6. FairTax: the truth. it's all explained there. We know you won't bother so have your little hissy anyhow. go ahead and throw the cancer kid at us again I love that one.
Zuns-- hidden in fine print, Fairtax get's most of its revenue FROM the government.
"The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer." The Fairtax Book, page 148. "Fairtax treats all governments alike, federal state and local, as individual consumers...Under our plan, all government purchases of LABOR, supplies, and services, would be subject to fairtax." Fairtax Truth Book, p 138
Do you really believe Government can pay massive taxes? Where will they get the money?
It is all quite logical which you seem to lack, but for the sake of others ill repeat. Governments already pay the cost of federal taxes embedded every purchase they make. Paying 23% tax on its spending is like moving 23% into savings to spend next year. Continuing to tax government spending prevents government from providing every it thinks you need with the illusion it is not end user consumption, and paying for it with high taxes everything else.
Fairtax would be great -- if city and state government will pay massive taxes to the federal government.
Fairtax plan is for city and state governments would pay a brand new, and huge, tax on all their spending. Including a tax on their payroll. See Fairtax Answer Book, page 138. "Under our plan, all city and state government will pay the federal government taxes on all their spending, including spending for labor (wages)."
But - how would city and state government GET the $
Psims - try to grasp this. Fairtax has HIDDEN this huge tax on government in their fine print. WHy would they HIDE this huge new tax on every city, state and federal government?
Because its NONSENSE -- but they had to pretend to be able to collect all that money to make the farce look like it will work,
Taxfools... the taxes are already present in the current prices that are in the market place. If the tax burden is removed then the price drops by 22%. The fair tax is 23% so in effect we are only looking at a 1% increase in current costs. Also, the amount that each individual receives is based on the poverty level, so if the poverty level is $14K for a family of 3 then that family will receive $14k in checks from the government
Mike is a goofy dumb ass. The poor would get fucking clobbered. YEs they get a rebate up to poverty level -- but if they rent, get sick, have a sick child, they will have HUGE taxes. They may owe 20,000 in sales taxes, but only make 10K
Never mind the unfairness -- how the FUCK can poor people pay these huge taxes on medical care, rent, food, ect/
@Taxfools If true then alter not just health care but your tax to.Until you in America started your health care debate I and no doubt millions of others in Europe (I'm Brit) admired the USA for many reasons .Being about the same age as the Gentleman in the Vid not least because you saved our arses in WW11.You seem to be paying at least twice for health care as us yet don't have universal cover,can easily go bankrupt paying for medical costs,die sooner,rated only 37 in health care,UK rated18.
This is about very simple math. Mike claims a fantastic fairty tale, that has NOTHING to do with health care. IT has to do with MATH.
They claim to STOP all taxes for EVERYONE - -NO one will pay a fucking DIME of taxes, not one fucking DIME. Not people, not corporations, NO one, will pay one fucking DIME.
Except for a sales tax - -which will be FREE because it will not raise prices.
@Taxfools, I just wanted to help inform you how the math may work. People dodge paying Income tax. From waitresses and dancers who don't declare all the tips they make, to "non-citizens" who work "under the table", and citizens who don't file income taxes. These people will pay a tax on every single item they decide to purchase. Add in tourist from other countries who visit. Everything they purchase will be taxed. If you would like to talk more, I would like to hear more of your side.
Fucking retard? Ever hear of congress dumb fuck? Do you think your congressmen will vote to make the parents of a child with cancer pay the 200,000in sales taxes? Why the fuck should they pay 200K in sales taxes - because their child got sick?
here is a fucking clue -- the Congressman will have an oponent saying children with cancer should not have to pay this tax.
WHo will win?
Dumb fuck -- run a campaign like I have, and learn something
OT dumb fuck -- about 20 year ago, the fed government put just a 10% sales tax on luxury boats.
Guess what dumb fuck -- new luxurty boat sales went into the fucking toilet moron.
So you want to put a 30% tax on everything? Dumb fuck -- new homes sales would go to shit, cancer patients would get exemptionss -- you fucking WILL NOT be able to collect that money fucktard.
DO you grasp that the money you fucks pretend to get, you will NOT be able to get?
You're the greatest person to debate. Your inability to make a point without cursing if a guaranteed win for the FairTaxer. Thanks!
Anyway, luxury boats are a bad example, because they're highly price elastic. Price goes up, demand goes down significantly. Healthcare and housing are quite price inelastic, meaning they may go up, but people need these, so demand isn't impacted much.
Besides, there is no additional tax here, it is just repackaging the embedded taxes that currently exist.
OT dumb fuck -- here is another basic. Cancer victims will complain about the huge taxes on their cancer care, retard. WHy should CANCER victims have to pay huge taxes? Cause they got cancer?
Guess what you fucking idiot -- Congressmen will RUSH to exempt them -- and exempt many other things.
So fucktard -- the things you idiots count on being able to tax, won't materialize idiot.
It's a fucking farce moron, no one is trying to pass this. It's pure bullshit.
This is about the only reasonable point you've made, in spite of your profanity. Interest groups will work to get their products exempted from the plan; however, there are always competing interests. To say don't do something because someone will try and undo it is akin to saying do nothing. With the 16th amend repealed, the fact that if things are exempted the rate goes through the roof should keep a lid exemptions. With a super high rate, the govt wouldn't collect nearly enough revenue.
It'd be my pleasure. (Let me point out that I'm a democrat and I'm not an expert on this, but I think this is a great plan.)
When the income tax system was first put in place, it only taxed the rich, and only a little Over the years the tax code has expanded and become so complicated that only the rich (and criminals) have the ability to avoid taxes. This year Americans will spend roughly $450 billion to comply with the code and the IRS will spend about $1 to collect $4...
...Obviously that's wasteful. The Fair Tax simplifies the whole system by eliminating all income and business taxes and replaces them with a National Sales Tax that will be adminstered by the States.
Realize that when you tax a business, they pass the tax on to the end consumer (you and me). Current estimates are that 23% of every dollar you spend goes to hidden taxes that have been passed on to us...
When we eliminate all of these taxes, competition will drive prices down and the sales tax will bring prices back up to roughly the level they were before the change
But remember, now you will be getting your entire paycheck because there are no longer income taxes. And instead of the government having to deal with 300 + million tax returns, they only have to scrutinize the businesses that get to make tax free purchases. With roughly only 100 million businesses, that makes fraud more risky and therefore less likely.
Now, taxing everything at 23% (or 30% depending on how you figure it) is bad for poor people so the government sends every one with a SS# a check at the begining of the month to cover the tax that they would have to pay on the basic necessities of life. That means that low income people would basically pay no taxes at all. Now we could exempt certain items but pretty soon the tax code would grow to the same montrous proportions that we have now.
@pauliswood No-- by the Fair tax site's OWN DATA, the poor and middle classes would end up paying 20-30% of their annual income with this tax while the wealthy would pay 13% or LESS.
See table 9 at
tiny url Fairtaxscam
which is a page at fairtax.org.
What this means is that, since the tax has to raise the same as the current system, and since the wealthy will be paying much much less than now (currently they pay 20-30% in fed taxes on avg.), the midclasses & poor pay more uder it than now.
@FairTaxisaLie Further more in your questionable math you forgot to include employee payed payroll taxes the poor pay out of their income, then you also forgot to include the employer paid portion of payroll taxes embedded in every purchase, as well as every other business tax cost that is passed onto the consumer.
Under the fairtax the poor keep 100% of their paycheck and the prebate untaxes their poverty level spending, leaving them with more purchasing power then with the income tax.
Over and over you prove you don't understand what you read and cant do math. In adopting the fairtax taxes every one the same at the register, and society will have said we do not want to tax your poverty level spending. This rebate is in the amount of taxes you over payed.
@dtvgmedia If you knew ANYTHING about current effective tax rates you would realize that those rates are MUCH higher than the middle classes pay. Refunds for lower middle tax rate payers get many of them to 0%, and some into negative numbers-- they get more back than they pay in. The fair tax bludgeons the middle classes with unavoidable higher tax (rent, utilities, food), shifting the burden from the rich (whose burden is Avery slight at this time) onto the middle classes. ref:Fairtax.org data
@dtvgmedia Yes, refunds do lower the actual rate paid. With EIC and other credits, many lower and middle income families get back MORE THAN THEY PAY IN. The fact that you do not know this shows that you need to go study the issue a bit more.
And the burden IS shifted, FairTax supporters' OWN DATA at their site (until they hide it) shows this. And no, pretty much EVERYTHING the poor and middle class buy would be taxed under this insane national sales tax, including rent, utilities, gas, etc.
@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 10,000 pays 1,230 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 12.3%.
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 12,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 2,840.04. Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $492.04 in taxes or 4.92%
@dtvgmedia In the first place, you purposefully chose the level of income ( single and poor) where some MIGHT have a very slightly lower federal tax under the "fairtax", but in most cases will not:
The most recent data (2003) for Nonelderly Childless households in the lowest quintile shows that group's effective fedeal tax rate as 9.6% (and likely lower now, with newer deductions), which would be $960 per $10,000 for that group. (CONT)
@FairTaxisaLie So yes, single poor people may be a little better off... and so will the uber rich (top 1$%, whose eff. federal tax rate would drop from about 31% to 18% under the National Sales Tax (aka"Fair" Tax), and the wealthy, whose rate would drop from 30% to about 19%... remember, the wealthy will not spend all of their money on taxable items, as will the poor and middle classes.
The supporters of the FT's own data shows all this, unless they removed it froim their site. Do the math.
Meanwhile, the middle classes would pay more according to the "Fair" Tax site's own data.
One cannot magically reduce the taxes of the wealthy and poor and have the same revenues without raising taxes on the middle classes. Under the NST/FT, the groups most able to avoid the FT would be the poor (grey and black markets) and the wealthy (buy overseas, live in the Bahamas, buy stocks and bonds).
@FairTaxisaLie Yes you can but it is not magic. The fairtax catches reduces tax cheating and makes illegal aliens pay taxes when they consume. The fairtax also reduces the cost of compliance that every one pays when they purchase products and services from a business that paid to have their taxes removed (averages over 1,100 for every man woman and child in America). Enacting the fairtax will save an average 1,000 for everyone in America in the hidden tax that is compliance cost.
@dtvgmedia The fairtax in no way reduces cheating, in fact it would encourage black markets across the spectrum. Illegals would add up to a pittance.
You can't average compliance costs across citizens evenly-- the honest way to do that is by income. Compliance costs for the poor and middle classes are negligent, and any decreases in compliance for big business would be offset by higher costs of compliance for small businesses and increased governmental collection and payout ("prebate") costs.
@FairTaxisaLie While some people with higher incomes may not spend all their income in the year they earned it. They will spend it, or pass it onto some one else who will spend it. The Main reasons people saving is to secure their older age when they no longer work or to give to those important to them.
Buying overseas and importing you pay the fairtax on it as if it were sold hear.
Apparently you just make up things about the fairtax with out knowing anything about it.
@FairTaxisaLie Unfounded assertion after another. You prove yourself incapable of telling the truth or doing nothing more then spinning it.
There is no reason to avoid taxes in the Bahamas when prices remain largely the same.
People that save 4 retirement buy more in their retirement years then they earn in retirement. They also pass on leaving the wealth they created to their heirs who pay the fairtax when they spend it.
@dtvgmedia You are unable to go look at the data, and have fallen for the lies of the wealthy businessmen who came up wioth the idiotic "Fair" Tax / National Sales Tax.
Prices do not remain the same-- you are falling for the "embedded taxes" canard. Go do the math or have someone explain it to you, there is not 23% of embedded taxes in what you purchase.
Yes, you just admitted-- retired persons who save now would be penalkized if a Fair tax came along.
@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 20,000 pays 2826.25 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 14.13%
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 22,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 5140.04 Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $2,792.04 in taxes or 13.96%
@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 20,000 pays 2826.25 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 14.131%.
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 22,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 5140.04. Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $2792.04 in taxes or 13.96%
@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 30,000 pays 5091.25 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 16.971%.
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 32,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 7440.04 . Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $5092.04 in taxes or 16.973%
@FairTaxisaLie People with more incomes don't save just for the sake of saving, they save to secure their old age so that they can buy what they want or need when they make less such as in old age, or to give to those persons most important to them. And so every dollar of wealth created is taxed once. But then again you were never concerned about the truth, only in how you can twist it.
On top of that, Princeton University Econometrics surveyed 500 companies from Europe and Asia to see what impact the Fair Tax would have on their business decisions. 400 said their next plant would be built in the US and 100 said they would move their corporate HQ to the US. Having the friendliest business environment in the world will cause and explosion in job growth in this country.
The reason the Fair Tax works is Several fold; -it eliminates waste
-it eliminates fraud
-rich people will be forced to pay
-criminals will be forced to pay -poor people will not have to pay making government programs LESS necessary -jobs will be created in america vastly expanding the tax base.
-politicians will not be able to HIDE tax increases so will be forced to spend responsibly.
@pauliswood thanks a lot for your explanations man, i really appreciate it, and i now undoubtedly have a much better understanding of the fair tax. i'll have a look at wiki and the other stuff you suggested, and can i just say its really nice to see someone on youtube take the time out too educate someone else, props :).
@up2trix Thank you for your kind words and your curiosity on the subject. I enjoy touting a good idea and I'm sure you'll come to appreciate the plan as much as I do. Good luck.!
Gravel could of gotten this bill passed, because he's a Democrat. Huckabee would of had an extremely difficult time, but I think people would have persuaded the house and senate.
cpb you are for extremely stupid thought, moron. A 15% tax like you say, with exemptions for food, water, medicine, would not bring in 1/4 of what fed tax gets now, dumb ass.
Got that you fucking retard? It wont fucking work moron. Get something that works you fucking idiot, not this insane fucking nonsense.
Hah you don't have a clue do you. 18% would bring in around 1.8 trillion dollars,because the Fair Tax at 23% brings in 2.3. Now in 1988 that was the budget and was government to small than?
Fair Tax helps both the poor, the middle class, and the wealthy. The people who get hurt are the illegal immigrants and other criminals. We need to pass this bill in order to save America.
This "un-fair" tax is easily debunked when one considers my situation. I now retired after working and paying taxes for many years. I live off of my savings.
Essentially, I have already paid my taxes. I might add I paid a lot. Now you want me to pay taxes on the money that I have saved when I spend it? Are you stupid? This unfair tax has no chance.
Completely untrue, by having the fair-tax implemented will MOTIVATE YOU to come up with your own business from the comfort of your home... why??? because NOW you won't be penalized to produce, and guess what,,,, you will have more INCOME (not just the broken security system), and GUESS WHAT??? the economy will increase, and GUESS what else??? if you don't consume above the poverty consumption you won't have to PAY TAXES.. DO YOU GET IT NOW???
Garcia dumb fuck - if you get cancer idiot - its a huge cancer tax. If you buy a new home -- well dumb fuck, there wont be any new homes, when you tax the living fuck out of them retard.
GUESS what retard -- it's a fucking hoax, it's a farce, it's own leaders are not trying to pass it.
Soy espejo y me reflejo, Hijo de tu reputisisima Madre!!!!
Huge Tax is what the government currently takes on Taxes!!! You know nothing about how the fair tax works, neither any knowledge about how the economy works, you should use your brain before spitting pendejadas, gamboringo, metencato.
and finally!!! VETE MUCHO A CHINGAR TU MADRE PINCHE PUTO!!!
Cancer, new homes, anything already has huge embedded taxation included in the price. Corporate taxes that hospitals, drug companies, builders, etc pay on their profits get passed onto consumers in the form of higher prices. Those taxes on cancer and homes that you complain about under the Fair Tax already exist under the current system, it's just they're hidden in the price of the good/service. What difference is there in terms of overall taxation if we hide the tax or make it transparent?
OT dumb fuck -- try to comprehend the basics you fucking idiot.
Even IF new homes had huge embedded taxes dumb fuck - when you lunatics tax them 30%, you fucking idiot, people will not buy them. Got that you fucking retard?
Far less new homes will be sold you fucking idiot. So then, you fuck tard, FT will have to RAISE taxes on the shit that sold even with a high tax.
Got that you fucking idiot? FT leaders know this retard, they are not trying to pass this shit.
Fairtax wont lower anything -- it's a hoax. It's pure BS. The leaders have NO intention of passing it, they know it's a magic pony that supposedly shits gold.
In the fine print, Fairtax gets almost 2 trillion dollars by a total bogus tax on the GOVERNMENT.
They KNOW its bullshit -- that's why they hide it in their fine print.
They know without this tax the government nonsense -- they would have to admit a sales tax rate of 60-90%, which would be insane.
Hey, give it a break! You don't have to be an asshole everyday of your life! Are you stupid or brain dead? You work for the Fed Government, right? IRS? Maybe the "Federal Reserve", huh? Why the fear? They say that if you want to know who has the most to lose when we propose to shit can the present tax system and replace it with the Fair Tax just pay close attention to those that scream the loudest-they have the most to lose when they can no longer keep their hands in our pockets!
jack -- wrong. I would love for this goofy tax to pass. My point is -- the Fairtax leaders know it's pure bullshit and arent trying to pass it. Its a hoax, a farce, its insane crap.
The tax would be 60-90% -- not 23%. It will never even get a hearing under oath because the leaders KNOW their own plan is a HOAX.
I see a lot wrong with the present tax code -- mostly because work, wages and self employed pay up to 300% higher tax rates on the SAME money.
Just because you worked for your money -- you are taxed far higher?? Why not tax all income the same.
Still -- the fairtax is pure BS hoax. It pretends to get almost 2 trillion by taxing the government. Its total bs, and fairtax leaders know it. Its not a serious plan at all. It's a hoax, a farce.
Anyone who believes that the Feds can eliminate all income, payroll, gift, estate, and corporate taxes and instead rely merely on consumption taxes (and only from the rich) is living in a deluded fantasy where math, like logic, is dead.
The FairTax will LOWER our tax burden because it spreads the tax load to illegals and criminals. It'll LOWER prices because manufacturers will no longer need to embed the cost of all their tax attorneys (about $900 per person right now) into thier retail prices. Oh, and the poor won't pay anything to the fed gov, since they'll be totally "untaxed" by the prebait. It'll also make it easier to see when the fed gov raises it's budget.
The Fair tax would literally destroy the United States. Consumption would grind to a halt, production would implode, the poor would be even more impoverished, and the government would have no income.
How do you figure? There has been over $20 million in research by real tax and economic specialists. The Fair Tax would eliminate federal taxes on income, gifts, estates, capital gains, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment and the alternative minimum tax. It would include a prebate to low-income people on the FairTax they pay up to the federal poverty level. It would greatly grow our economy, which is without a doubt needed
So, all that money coming in from the millions of people who currently pay NO kind of income tax would be detrimental to our economy. The fact that drug dealers and illegals would now pay taxes means nothing I guess.
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Fairtax is dead -- cause it was goofy nonsense. The Fairtax leaders KNOW its bullshit.
Fairtax is actually a MASSIVE new tax that they don't tell you about. Its a massive new tax on cities and states, on every government entity, except education.
But Fairtax hides this trillion dollar tax in their fine print.
Thats why Fairtax would NEVER have a hearing under oath - they KNOW this tax on government is pure bullshit. Thats why its in their fine print.
Your argument is week when you consider, income taxes are like this.
Imagine a group. Every year, each chips in 22% of his income to pay for things important to the group. Last year the group decided they need a bridge. Among them were some bridge builders that bid on the project. One was awarded the contract. He built the bridge, and was payed upon completion. The group's spending was income for some of its members, and after paying their group tax, it is counted in this years tax receipts.
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I start off thinking that anyone who fucking says you can tax the government to get most of government revenue is either a dumb fucker or a lying fucker.
Fairtax seems to be a bunch of lying fuckers, who fooled some dumb fuckers.
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What the fuck does Missouri have to do with it, idiot. Does the Missouri Fairtax put the highest sales tax on earth -- and pretend the government pays itself that, you dumb ass?
Cause thats exactly what the fucking National Fairtax con artist bastards pretend -- their fucking math is a fucking joke.
They just pretend to get 1.5 trillion dollars by a fucking magic tax the government would pay itself
They know its pure bullshit dumb ass, they aren't even trying to pass it.
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You want to know where to start? Start with math, dumb ass. Start with fuchhing figuring out the bullshit con job lunacy of Fairtax pretending to fucking get most of its revenue by taxing the government.
Why the fuck do you think the hide such shit in back of the book? Like page 148. Under Fairtax Magic "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR tax payer"
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Did you really think everyone was so stupid they would not notice Fairtax is a farce?
Did you think no one would notice that Fairitax math is based on getting most of government revenue by making the government pay a huge tax -- to itself?
Just cause you believe in Magic Pony that shits gold, doesn't mean it's true.
Have you noticed how FT movement evaporated?
If Fairtax wasn't bullshit -- it would have a huge popular and business support, instead of a few nuts
You start off with assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, as if the debate were over. Please enlighten me good sir, where did you do your research I would like to see for myself. Do you point me in the right direction or is this philosophical pandering to iconic ideology?
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There is no pro fairtax discussion, Fairtax is a fucking con job you fucking idiot. Thats like saying you want a pro and con discussion on the Magic Pony that shits gold bricks.
Fairtax is absurd bullshit. You want to learn something, dumb ass, google Fairtax absurdity - look around. Think for your fucking self.
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Matt -- there IS no insightful discourse on Fairtax. It is literally a farce. It hides the fact it would be a massive NEW tax on cities and states, besides the sales tax on people.
Fairtax hid this in the fine print. That's how their math "adds up" --- by pretending to get 1.5 trillion FROM the government.
Its such fucking BULLSHIT that Fairtax avoids hearings -- no corporation supports it, retailers say its crazy -- its a fucking farce.
The state of Missouri this week passed legislation to enact the FairTax on the state level. Missouri is gearing up for a deluge of businesses that will no doubt relocate to their state. Upon hearing this, the state of New Jersey has introduced similar legislation to help prevent the mass exodus of businesses from leaving their state for Missouri. Others are soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before this happens on the federal level. Thank God!
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NAGGER IN the Fairtax answer book -- it says teh government will pay tax even on PAYROLL -- yes PAYROLL will be subject to tax Fairtax.
, NOt a payroll tax as a deduction - but all your government entities will have to pay not only 30 % tax on spending - but 30% tax on whatever they spent for PAYROLL.
Ask your CPA how state and city will pay for that. Go ahead, You said your CPA loved it. Ask her that . Or have her call me.
Well dig at least is sane. Yes - for Fairtax to work, you have to cut spending drastically -- 80% or so. That means no military, no NASA, no medciare or medicaid, no coast guard, no FAA -- no gov or military pensions.
IF you cut that drasticallly - - Fairtax works.
But unless you cut spending that much -- Fairtax is pure bullshit farce.
Right now, Fairtax pretends to get most of its revenue FROM the government - -which is bullshit lie, and they know it.
In order to address the tax issue, we need to first address the issue of spending. Until we do that, Fair Tax will become nothing more than a concept that is debated on YouTube.
We need to get rid of Income Tax in order to introduce the Fair Tax. And to do that, we need to cut spending.
Cut spending, eliminate income tax, introduce fair tax, introduce tariffs... But it seems this country would rather go bankrupt (or have a revolution, or perhaps both) before it does that.
Mike you feeble fuck -- tell us what the fuck in the fairtax prevents taxation on the poor? Nothing you dumb fuck, there ARE no exemptions or exceptions you idiot.
Mike just has no clue -- the feeble old bastard is clueless. Twenty years ago, MIke would have kicked the shit out of Fairtax con artist. Now, the dottering old man is a sucker for the bastards.
Fairtax has NO exemptions-- the poor would face HUGE taxes on rent, on utilitie, on EVERY fucking thing.
Yes dumb ass -- I read the book, four times. And the second book.
Thats how I know so much about it.
For example retard -- I know there are NO exceptions or exemptions. Even the poor have to pay this -- even state and local government -- even the military - even federal government.
Of course the poor can't fucking pay it, of course the fucking government can't either -- thats just paying itself bullshit moron.
Gravel is a nice guy - but a dumb ass on this. He has no clue.
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Mike -- dumb ass-- are you pulling this outta your feeble ass?
There is nothing in Fairtax you fucking idiot that exempts anyone from any fucking tax dumb ass.
The poor would have to pay thefucking highest sales tax on earth you fucking lunatic dumb ass bastard -- on their rent -- their utilities -- their every fucking thing retard.
Oh -- the prebate? You dumb fuck -- thats 200 month -- no more fuck face. That wouldn't cover the sales tax on their fucking rent retard/
Ahh, kids. You are an idiot with a wonderful vocabulary and are a shining beacon of our government education system. Just because there are whole websites devoted to blasting and lying about the fairtax with ignorant arguments like yours, it does not make them true. You obviously have not read either book, and will believe anything you hear as long as it's fucking awesome, like you. Congratulations on being you.
If you'll notice, he uses over 20 different names to troll FairTax videos. I've joined with a few other people to send complaints to YouTube abuse. If you're interested in joining us, contact me for the email address.
Mark, we've been over this a 1000 times so nothing I tell you will make a difference. You've made up your mind and nobody's going to change it, no matter how much education and/or experience they have. I have no problem that you disagree, but you use multiple names to spam, yes spam, multiple comments saying the same things over and over again. I'm organizing people to have you banned from YouTube because you won't quit. Your use of multiple names and profanity will be what does you in.
Its slight of hand -- this embedded stuff. Remember -- these are con artist who are trying to tell you they will make the government a MAJOR taxpayer - remember that. These are snake oil salesman.
I will send you an email -- its too long to do here.
I understand the embedded part of this very well. Its a smoke screen.
If you can't grasp that the government can pay most of its own revenue -- then you can't grasp the more subtle reality that the embedded tax argument is another con.
A contractor selling services to the government would charge enough to cover his income tax or go broke, right?
So the the governemnt would be "paying" the contractor's income tax, because it would be embedded in the price. The price would also include the contractor's other expenses which would be large enough to cover his suppliers embedded tax. And so on and on.
So the government pays all these other peoples' embedded income tax.
SO THEY ALREADY PAY AN EMBEDDED TAX already pays itself
Listen dumb ass - no matter what bullshit you spin in that dumb ass of your -- you cant fucking have the government pay most of its own revenue you dumb ass fuck head.
Either get a fucking clue -- or hell, you won't get a clue. YOu are a fucking idiot./
Just read page148 of the Fairtax book "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Then consider this same tax is on state - city - and local government too. Just imagine the Navy paying the US treasury a billion in sales tax for an aircraft carrier.
Its nonsensical. In fact, its so preposterous -- people are fooled by it.
But Fairtax leaders KNOW this is a gimmick. They know the government can't pay itself.
Yes -- we need an entire new tax code - of course. The present tax code is as bad as Fairtax says it is.
But Fairtax is a gimmick -- a card trick -- bullshit. Its pretends to get most of the government revenue FROM the government. It sounds great -- until you understand the fine print.
Fairtax is more a study in psychology - deceptoin -- and gullibility. Its not a serious economic plan -- at best its a gimmick.
Fairtax is a farce. It pretends to get over a trillion dollars in sales taxes FROM the government.
Do your homework -- read the FT book -- page 148 "The federal government will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Not only will the FEDERAL governmen become a "Major tax payer" all state, county and local governments have to be "major tax payers' too -- they have to pay this same tax.
So Fairtax depends on absurd nonsense. Its not a serious plan -- its a lying gimmick, and the leaders know it.
I don't pretend to be an expert on every aspect of the Fair Tax, but I am an expert on the income tax. I represent people in conflict with IRS over an insane, illogical, biased and sometimes arbitrary tax system that picks winners and losers, usually the winners being the biggest political supporters. And I live with this current system 5 days a week, all year. And I have for 35 years. (cont)
(cont) Calling it a farce is not helpful. You may be right in that it won't work, but please try to understand this embedded tax concept before picking part of one sentence as proof the plan is a "farce".
The current system is going to collapse from its own weight. There is already rebellion from non-filers. Check article in today's NY Times re people not filing income taxes for 30 years because of their fear of the IRS. BTW, I'm out of a job if the Fair Tax is passed. (cont)
The tax code doesn't need to be replaced with anything based on income. As long as tax is based on income it is designed to manipulate and favor some people and some behavior over others. That should not be the role of government. Tax to raise revenue, not subsidize your home purchase.
All moot, though. Congress will never pass this, even if it works. They won't give up their ability to pick winners and losers and sell favors. And if they did pass it without a const amend, they (cont)
Critics oppose the Fair Tax without doing their homework, and just call people names. It is a change in the collection, not amount, of tax. It defines and limits collection costs. It is not an add-on sales tax. Critics don't understand concept of an embedded tax, which makes it work. Refunds (prebates) instead of exemption. No more: IRS, tax preparers, politicians selling tax favors, tax related suicide, due dates, underground economy. Income tax sucks. Is IRS Mafia or Gestapo or both?
Fairtax is a farce. It pretends to get over a trillion dollars in sales taxes FROM the government.
Do your homework -- read the FT book -- page 148 "The federal government will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Not only will the FEDERAL governmen become a "Major tax payer" all state, county and local governments have to be "major tax payers' too -- they have to pay this same tax.
So Fairtax depends on absurd nonsense. Its not a serious plan -- its a lying gimmick, and the leaders know it.
Huck -- comment this pecker head. Your Fairtax shit is bogus nonsense and you know it.
Sure you can have a national sales tax -- but to replace all other taxes -- it would be over 60%, just like the studies have shown.
Fairtax pretend it can be 30% -- which is still very high -- by counting the money you lunatics pretend you can collect FROM the government. You bullshitters fool stupid people with this shit.
You fucking can't collect a sales tax FROM the government you idiot.
No dumb ass - the government does NOT collect a trillion dollars in sales taxes from itself
Fairtax groupies believe this Magic Pony that shits gold.
People have exposed the Fairtax bullshit you dufus. Wise the fuch up.
One trick -- pretending to tax the government a trillion dollars every year in sales tax. And count that as income. Another insane bullshit they know is false --pretending they can collect 500 billion in sales taxes on medical expenses
The Fair Tax purpose is to insure everyone who should pay taxes is paying tax, their propotional share. To reduce govt consumption of taxes requires a different solution. And, by the way, you are already paying taxes on all the items you mention above.
FT loonies pretend prices will DROP 23% when then put this tax on. Bullshit.
First all, you lunatics, that's not how sales tax work.
Second of all -- Boortz himself "clarified" this crap, when he admitted that for the huge extra tax to no increase prices -- all workers -- ALL WORKERS -- will have to "donate" any savings from this plan, to their employer.
Thats right dufus -- everyone has to DONATE the taxes they pay now TO their employer.
Ok. So you have not read H.R. 25 for the 110th Congress??
Because everything is laid out for you there. No "donations" in the bill.
The people get taxed on products that are not necessary. This creates more jobs and brings competitiveness to American products. It also encourages saving.
The problem with saying that the fairtax will increase the price of things is that those prices are set because of the taxes paid by the providers of services and products. Because of all the taxes, costs are higher and thus prices are higher. If we remove those costs, prices will drop, even as sales tax increases. The two effects will cancel out and the end result is the same total price and take home pay.
Arguing over how much fairtax bring is, like arguing how tall a tree will grow if you have magic seeds. Its pure BS. Its a farce. Fairtax pretends to collect huge sales taxes FROM the government, on government spending. That's insane crap. Plus, it pretends all medical cost will pay this idiot tax. No way. How will medicare pay itself a tax -- yes - FT has medicare paying sales tax to itself, on all its spending. It even taxes new highway construction. Its crazy as hell.
So am I correct in understanding that EVERYTHING will be taxed (even necessities) the proposed 23% but then people (based on their living situation) will get a monthly rebate (prebate) check to pay for those necessities?
If that's true then you're right in saying that if we give one thing an exemption, that now leaves room for "This should also not be taxed because of bla bla bla"
kurolap 7 months ago
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hrsweat0097 8 months ago
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@FairTaxisaLie taxes r only payed because of a consumer. Without one, there is no income to tax. Business taxes r really just hidden taxes on consumers of American made. The poor & middle class not only pay their personal income & employee paid payroll taxes, but the cost of capital gains, corporate income, employer payed payroll taxes and the hidden cost/tax that is the regulatory burden of complying with the tax code whose cost average over $1,100 for every man woman and child in America.
dtvgmedia 11 months ago
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dtvgmedia 11 months ago
oh gawd. the fkn fair tax will give the goverment the right to tax us.. wtf!!? the only legal tax is impost and excise, taxes on items bought.. read artical 1
mojofortherepublic 1 year ago
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Beware of these names. They're all the same person, a FairTax spammer who doesn't work. Compare vocabulary and style. BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe, SteamBoatCamp, ItchMyFoot, RooferHoofer, MybookDeal, etc etc.
urgener 1 year ago
When have politicians ever cared about what is FAIR ?
flmcon 1 year ago
I'd like to add, the seniors benefit from the prebate quite a bit.
asleeperj 1 year ago
The argument is over Mark the only thing your doing is spamming so that no one will find any opposing viewpoints.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
Gravel is like a nice old drunk at the corner bar. He means well -- he really does. But someone fed him a bunch of shit -- and he has no clue.
Fairtax sounds great -- but because it's fucking insane -- it's not great. It's own leaders know that it's bullshit.
It pretends to tax the fucking GOVERNMENT -- all government except schools. That means taxing the miliitary, taxing medicare, taxing cities and states/
Why pretend to tax the government? So their math would "work".
NeilTaxCon 1 year ago
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Good luck passing this fucking insane farce dumb fuck -- Fairtax leaders would shoot their own mother to keep it from being voted on -- idiot.
They know their own plan is pure fucking shit moron. THey are not trying to pass it - and they would shit their pants if someone tried to pass it.
Got that retard ? It's a fucking farce, a hoax, its not a tax plan at all.
NeilTaxCon 1 year ago
Thank you for the support. and good luck getting your name off that pesky registered sex offenders list, Mark. I hope all goes well.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
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I read the second crazy ass book too dumb fuck. It's even worse,. They say essentially "Of course the federal government will pay this tax -- because city and states will pay it too!"
Fucking insane shit. No dumb fuck -- Feds wont ever pay this tax. Nor will cities and states dumb fuck.
Tell you what dumb fuck -- let me be there when you idiots try to collect 50 billion in taxes from California state government.
Not gonna happen retard, and FT knows it. Its a fucking farce.
NeilTaxCon 1 year ago
That's not what it says. but hey, one of the 5 people reading this might believe you. so misquote all you like.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
If someone making 20K has a child with cancer, that child is treated with 100K -200 K worth of care.
Guess what dumb fuck --FT math has the parents pay 60K-90K in sales tax. Got that retard?
Fairtax has no exceptions ---at all. The math is based on collecting EVERY PENNY no matter what.
And FT knows it pure fucking bullshit -- they arent going to make anyone pay this.
Its a farce dumb fuck. They are not ever going to try to pass it.
NeilTaxCon 1 year ago
So here is what you dumb morons think. No one will pay any taxes -- no person, no business. NO FICA taxes, no social security taxes, no income taxes, ect.
But ALL taxes will be magically within the price of stuff we ALREADY buy.
You dumb fucks -- ITS A FUCKING FARCE. IT's not a real tax plan - they are fucking lying to your dumb ass.
They are NOT trying to pass their own plan. No one is trying to pass this in Congress, NO ONE.
It's a total fucking farce.
FarceTax 1 year ago
Thanks, Mark. It does cover the cost. anyone who reads the bill or at last the 2 books explaining it knows it will cover the cost.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
And to cover you're next outburst along the lines of: "blah, blah, government pays taxes to itself is BS, blah, blah, Dumb fuck, blah, pg 148, whine, whine, FairTax book."
read ch 10 question 6. FairTax: the truth. it's all explained there. We know you won't bother so have your little hissy anyhow. go ahead and throw the cancer kid at us again I love that one.
laudanum4u 1 year ago
@laudanum4u Man you matched that word for word. This nimrod got like 5 accounts and he uses the word dumb fuck like he's obsessed with the word.
FamousDave2186 1 year ago 4
Zuns-- hidden in fine print, Fairtax get's most of its revenue FROM the government.
"The federal government ITSELF will become a MAJOR taxpayer." The Fairtax Book, page 148. "Fairtax treats all governments alike, federal state and local, as individual consumers...Under our plan, all government purchases of LABOR, supplies, and services, would be subject to fairtax." Fairtax Truth Book, p 138
Do you really believe Government can pay massive taxes? Where will they get the money?
NawwLeans 1 year ago
@NawwLeans and your 32 other youtube aliases
It is all quite logical which you seem to lack, but for the sake of others ill repeat. Governments already pay the cost of federal taxes embedded every purchase they make. Paying 23% tax on its spending is like moving 23% into savings to spend next year. Continuing to tax government spending prevents government from providing every it thinks you need with the illusion it is not end user consumption, and paying for it with high taxes everything else.
dtvgmedia 1 year ago
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Fairtax would be great -- if city and state government will pay massive taxes to the federal government.
Fairtax plan is for city and state governments would pay a brand new, and huge, tax on all their spending. Including a tax on their payroll. See Fairtax Answer Book, page 138. "Under our plan, all city and state government will pay the federal government taxes on all their spending, including spending for labor (wages)."
But - how would city and state government GET the $
DWTaxService 1 year ago
Psims - try to grasp this. Fairtax has HIDDEN this huge tax on government in their fine print. WHy would they HIDE this huge new tax on every city, state and federal government?
Because its NONSENSE -- but they had to pretend to be able to collect all that money to make the farce look like it will work,
IT's a farce, they are NOT trying to pass it.
FarceTax 1 year ago
Taxfools... the taxes are already present in the current prices that are in the market place. If the tax burden is removed then the price drops by 22%. The fair tax is 23% so in effect we are only looking at a 1% increase in current costs. Also, the amount that each individual receives is based on the poverty level, so if the poverty level is $14K for a family of 3 then that family will receive $14k in checks from the government
PSims68 1 year ago
Mike is a goofy dumb ass. The poor would get fucking clobbered. YEs they get a rebate up to poverty level -- but if they rent, get sick, have a sick child, they will have HUGE taxes. They may owe 20,000 in sales taxes, but only make 10K
Never mind the unfairness -- how the FUCK can poor people pay these huge taxes on medical care, rent, food, ect/
Taxfools 1 year ago
@Taxfools If true then alter not just health care but your tax to.Until you in America started your health care debate I and no doubt millions of others in Europe (I'm Brit) admired the USA for many reasons .Being about the same age as the Gentleman in the Vid not least because you saved our arses in WW11.You seem to be paying at least twice for health care as us yet don't have universal cover,can easily go bankrupt paying for medical costs,die sooner,rated only 37 in health care,UK rated18.
davijeph 1 year ago
dav -- you arent getting this at all.
This is about very simple math. Mike claims a fantastic fairty tale, that has NOTHING to do with health care. IT has to do with MATH.
They claim to STOP all taxes for EVERYONE - -NO one will pay a fucking DIME of taxes, not one fucking DIME. Not people, not corporations, NO one, will pay one fucking DIME.
Except for a sales tax - -which will be FREE because it will not raise prices.
Got it yet? Its fucking NUTS and leaders know it.
Taxfools 1 year ago
@Taxfools, I just wanted to help inform you how the math may work. People dodge paying Income tax. From waitresses and dancers who don't declare all the tips they make, to "non-citizens" who work "under the table", and citizens who don't file income taxes. These people will pay a tax on every single item they decide to purchase. Add in tourist from other countries who visit. Everything they purchase will be taxed. If you would like to talk more, I would like to hear more of your side.
JJHauser 1 year ago
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Taxfools 1 year ago
I just wanted to inform you how Fairtas is bullshit. Your idiot waitress example doesnt matter.
That's already factored in - -taxes on all sales is factored in. All spending by people is factored it. That's part of the math.
Notice, dumb fuck, the OTHER part of their "math" A huge tax on GOVERNMENT. Got that retard?
Your waitress will have to pay a lot more that 23%, retard, because FT has pretended to be able to tax the government.
They can't tax the government retard.
Taxfools 1 year ago
how do they pay them now?
laudanum4u 1 year ago
Should keep the lid on exemptions?
Fucking retard? Ever hear of congress dumb fuck? Do you think your congressmen will vote to make the parents of a child with cancer pay the 200,000in sales taxes? Why the fuck should they pay 200K in sales taxes - because their child got sick?
here is a fucking clue -- the Congressman will have an oponent saying children with cancer should not have to pay this tax.
WHo will win?
Dumb fuck -- run a campaign like I have, and learn something
Taxfools 1 year ago
OT dumb fuck -- about 20 year ago, the fed government put just a 10% sales tax on luxury boats.
Guess what dumb fuck -- new luxurty boat sales went into the fucking toilet moron.
So you want to put a 30% tax on everything? Dumb fuck -- new homes sales would go to shit, cancer patients would get exemptionss -- you fucking WILL NOT be able to collect that money fucktard.
DO you grasp that the money you fucks pretend to get, you will NOT be able to get?
Do you grasp that dumbfuck?
Taxfools 2 years ago
You're the greatest person to debate. Your inability to make a point without cursing if a guaranteed win for the FairTaxer. Thanks!
Anyway, luxury boats are a bad example, because they're highly price elastic. Price goes up, demand goes down significantly. Healthcare and housing are quite price inelastic, meaning they may go up, but people need these, so demand isn't impacted much.
Besides, there is no additional tax here, it is just repackaging the embedded taxes that currently exist.
oterj0 1 year ago
OT dumb fuck -- here is another basic. Cancer victims will complain about the huge taxes on their cancer care, retard. WHy should CANCER victims have to pay huge taxes? Cause they got cancer?
Guess what you fucking idiot -- Congressmen will RUSH to exempt them -- and exempt many other things.
So fucktard -- the things you idiots count on being able to tax, won't materialize idiot.
It's a fucking farce moron, no one is trying to pass this. It's pure bullshit.
Taxfools 2 years ago
This is about the only reasonable point you've made, in spite of your profanity. Interest groups will work to get their products exempted from the plan; however, there are always competing interests. To say don't do something because someone will try and undo it is akin to saying do nothing. With the 16th amend repealed, the fact that if things are exempted the rate goes through the roof should keep a lid exemptions. With a super high rate, the govt wouldn't collect nearly enough revenue.
oterj0 1 year ago
@Taxfools stick to one account please
up2trix 1 year ago
@up2trix
Hell, I say let them keep spamming and insulting people.
It's obvious to US that there is no good reason to oppose the Fair Tax....If they can't put a coherent sentence together it will be obvious to others.
pauliswood 1 year ago
@pauliswood i actually don't support the "fair tax". tbh its more because i don't know fully what it entails. maybe you could enlighten me? :P
up2trix 1 year ago
@up2trix
It'd be my pleasure. (Let me point out that I'm a democrat and I'm not an expert on this, but I think this is a great plan.)
When the income tax system was first put in place, it only taxed the rich, and only a little Over the years the tax code has expanded and become so complicated that only the rich (and criminals) have the ability to avoid taxes. This year Americans will spend roughly $450 billion to comply with the code and the IRS will spend about $1 to collect $4...
pauliswood 1 year ago
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pauliswood 1 year ago
@up2trix
...Obviously that's wasteful. The Fair Tax simplifies the whole system by eliminating all income and business taxes and replaces them with a National Sales Tax that will be adminstered by the States.
pauliswood 1 year ago
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pauliswood 1 year ago
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pauliswood 1 year ago
@up2trix
Realize that when you tax a business, they pass the tax on to the end consumer (you and me). Current estimates are that 23% of every dollar you spend goes to hidden taxes that have been passed on to us...
When we eliminate all of these taxes, competition will drive prices down and the sales tax will bring prices back up to roughly the level they were before the change
pauliswood 1 year ago
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pauliswood 1 year ago
@up2trix
But remember, now you will be getting your entire paycheck because there are no longer income taxes. And instead of the government having to deal with 300 + million tax returns, they only have to scrutinize the businesses that get to make tax free purchases. With roughly only 100 million businesses, that makes fraud more risky and therefore less likely.
pauliswood 1 year ago
@up2trix
Now, taxing everything at 23% (or 30% depending on how you figure it) is bad for poor people so the government sends every one with a SS# a check at the begining of the month to cover the tax that they would have to pay on the basic necessities of life. That means that low income people would basically pay no taxes at all. Now we could exempt certain items but pretty soon the tax code would grow to the same montrous proportions that we have now.
pauliswood 1 year ago
@pauliswood No-- by the Fair tax site's OWN DATA, the poor and middle classes would end up paying 20-30% of their annual income with this tax while the wealthy would pay 13% or LESS.
See table 9 at
tiny url Fairtaxscam
which is a page at fairtax.org.
What this means is that, since the tax has to raise the same as the current system, and since the wealthy will be paying much much less than now (currently they pay 20-30% in fed taxes on avg.), the midclasses & poor pay more uder it than now.
FairTaxisaLie 1 year ago
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dtvgmedia 1 year ago
@FairTaxisaLie Further more in your questionable math you forgot to include employee payed payroll taxes the poor pay out of their income, then you also forgot to include the employer paid portion of payroll taxes embedded in every purchase, as well as every other business tax cost that is passed onto the consumer.
Under the fairtax the poor keep 100% of their paycheck and the prebate untaxes their poverty level spending, leaving them with more purchasing power then with the income tax.
dtvgmedia 1 year ago
@FairTaxisaLie and your 32+ other youtube aliases
Over and over you prove you don't understand what you read and cant do math. In adopting the fairtax taxes every one the same at the register, and society will have said we do not want to tax your poverty level spending. This rebate is in the amount of taxes you over payed.
dtvgmedia 1 year ago
@FairTaxisaLie and your 32+ other youtube aliases
I will help you with the math and figuring out effective rate.
Fairtax rate is = 23% of spending
Effective rate = (Spending - Poverty level spending) x Rate / Spending;
When:
Spending = 1 x Poverty level spending; Effective rate = 0%
Spending = 2 x Poverty level spending; Effective rate = 11.5%
Spending = 4 x Poverty level spending; Effective rate = 17.25%
Spending = 8 x Poverty level spending; Effective rate = 21.125%
dtvgmedia 1 year ago
@dtvgmedia If you knew ANYTHING about current effective tax rates you would realize that those rates are MUCH higher than the middle classes pay. Refunds for lower middle tax rate payers get many of them to 0%, and some into negative numbers-- they get more back than they pay in. The fair tax bludgeons the middle classes with unavoidable higher tax (rent, utilities, food), shifting the burden from the rich (whose burden is Avery slight at this time) onto the middle classes. ref:Fairtax.org data
FairTaxisaLie 1 year ago
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dtvgmedia 10 months ago
@dtvgmedia Yes, refunds do lower the actual rate paid. With EIC and other credits, many lower and middle income families get back MORE THAN THEY PAY IN. The fact that you do not know this shows that you need to go study the issue a bit more.
And the burden IS shifted, FairTax supporters' OWN DATA at their site (until they hide it) shows this. And no, pretty much EVERYTHING the poor and middle class buy would be taxed under this insane national sales tax, including rent, utilities, gas, etc.
FairTaxisaLie 10 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 10,000 pays 1,230 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 12.3%.
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 12,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 2,840.04. Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $492.04 in taxes or 4.92%
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
@dtvgmedia In the first place, you purposefully chose the level of income ( single and poor) where some MIGHT have a very slightly lower federal tax under the "fairtax", but in most cases will not:
The most recent data (2003) for Nonelderly Childless households in the lowest quintile shows that group's effective fedeal tax rate as 9.6% (and likely lower now, with newer deductions), which would be $960 per $10,000 for that group. (CONT)
FairTaxisaLie 10 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie So yes, single poor people may be a little better off... and so will the uber rich (top 1$%, whose eff. federal tax rate would drop from about 31% to 18% under the National Sales Tax (aka"Fair" Tax), and the wealthy, whose rate would drop from 30% to about 19%... remember, the wealthy will not spend all of their money on taxable items, as will the poor and middle classes.
The supporters of the FT's own data shows all this, unless they removed it froim their site. Do the math.
FairTaxisaLie 10 months ago
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dtvgmedia 10 months ago
@dtvgmedia
Meanwhile, the middle classes would pay more according to the "Fair" Tax site's own data.
One cannot magically reduce the taxes of the wealthy and poor and have the same revenues without raising taxes on the middle classes. Under the NST/FT, the groups most able to avoid the FT would be the poor (grey and black markets) and the wealthy (buy overseas, live in the Bahamas, buy stocks and bonds).
FairTaxisaLie 10 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie Yes you can but it is not magic. The fairtax catches reduces tax cheating and makes illegal aliens pay taxes when they consume. The fairtax also reduces the cost of compliance that every one pays when they purchase products and services from a business that paid to have their taxes removed (averages over 1,100 for every man woman and child in America). Enacting the fairtax will save an average 1,000 for everyone in America in the hidden tax that is compliance cost.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
@dtvgmedia The fairtax in no way reduces cheating, in fact it would encourage black markets across the spectrum. Illegals would add up to a pittance.
You can't average compliance costs across citizens evenly-- the honest way to do that is by income. Compliance costs for the poor and middle classes are negligent, and any decreases in compliance for big business would be offset by higher costs of compliance for small businesses and increased governmental collection and payout ("prebate") costs.
FairTaxisaLie 10 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie While some people with higher incomes may not spend all their income in the year they earned it. They will spend it, or pass it onto some one else who will spend it. The Main reasons people saving is to secure their older age when they no longer work or to give to those important to them.
Buying overseas and importing you pay the fairtax on it as if it were sold hear.
Apparently you just make up things about the fairtax with out knowing anything about it.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
@dtvgmedia Again you miss the important points:
Purchases of stocks cannot be taxed with an NST/FT-- the wealthy would BUY UP AMERICA tax free.
Purchases of castles and mansions in Europe, the Bahamas, etc, cannot be taxed with a NST/FT.
Retired Americans who already paid taxes on their sabvings will be taxed on that money again.
Fairtaxorg's own data shows that retired and middle class people would pay more under the NST/FT.
FairTaxisaLie 10 months ago
@FairTaxisaLie Unfounded assertion after another. You prove yourself incapable of telling the truth or doing nothing more then spinning it.
There is no reason to avoid taxes in the Bahamas when prices remain largely the same.
People that save 4 retirement buy more in their retirement years then they earn in retirement. They also pass on leaving the wealth they created to their heirs who pay the fairtax when they spend it.
100% of wealth created is taxed once at 23%.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
@dtvgmedia You are unable to go look at the data, and have fallen for the lies of the wealthy businessmen who came up wioth the idiotic "Fair" Tax / National Sales Tax.
Prices do not remain the same-- you are falling for the "embedded taxes" canard. Go do the math or have someone explain it to you, there is not 23% of embedded taxes in what you purchase.
Yes, you just admitted-- retired persons who save now would be penalkized if a Fair tax came along.
100% is not USA taxed. See Bahamas
FairTaxisaLie 10 months ago
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@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 20,000 pays 2826.25 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 14.13%
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 22,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 5140.04 Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $2,792.04 in taxes or 13.96%
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
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@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 20,000 pays 2826.25 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 14.131%.
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 22,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 5140.04. Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $2792.04 in taxes or 13.96%
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
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@FairTaxisaLie On what do you base your logic in concluding the effective fairtax rates are higher. The figures i gave you are independent of family size or year, but based on poverty level spending.
A single person making 30,000 pays 5091.25 in income, ss, and medicare. His effective tax rate = 16.971%.
Fairtax prebate is $2348 making his spendable income 32,348. A 23% fairtax means he pays 7440.04 . Subtracting the prebate leaves a net $5092.04 in taxes or 16.973%
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
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@FairTaxisaLie People with more incomes don't save just for the sake of saving, they save to secure their old age so that they can buy what they want or need when they make less such as in old age, or to give to those persons most important to them. And so every dollar of wealth created is taxed once. But then again you were never concerned about the truth, only in how you can twist it.
dtvgmedia 10 months ago
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pauliswood 1 year ago
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pauliswood 1 year ago
@up2trix
On top of that, Princeton University Econometrics surveyed 500 companies from Europe and Asia to see what impact the Fair Tax would have on their business decisions. 400 said their next plant would be built in the US and 100 said they would move their corporate HQ to the US. Having the friendliest business environment in the world will cause and explosion in job growth in this country.
pauliswood 1 year ago
@up2trix
The reason the Fair Tax works is Several fold; -it eliminates waste
-it eliminates fraud
-rich people will be forced to pay
-criminals will be forced to pay -poor people will not have to pay making government programs LESS necessary -jobs will be created in america vastly expanding the tax base.
-politicians will not be able to HIDE tax increases so will be forced to spend responsibly.
pauliswood 1 year ago
@up2trix
Sorry for all of the "comments removed"...It was double posting.
I encourage you to check out the videos by the you tube user fairtaxhub
Also fairtax.org and wikipedia have alot of info.
pauliswood 1 year ago
@pauliswood thanks a lot for your explanations man, i really appreciate it, and i now undoubtedly have a much better understanding of the fair tax. i'll have a look at wiki and the other stuff you suggested, and can i just say its really nice to see someone on youtube take the time out too educate someone else, props :).
up2trix 1 year ago
@up2trix Thank you for your kind words and your curiosity on the subject. I enjoy touting a good idea and I'm sure you'll come to appreciate the plan as much as I do. Good luck.!
pauliswood 1 year ago
If you dumb fucks think Congress will put the highest tax on earth on rent -- you are a fucking idiot.
If you think they will vote to make cancer victims pay taxes on their medical bills - you are a fucking lunatic.
Fairtax is a fucking farce, you fucking idiots. It sounds great -- until you fucking realize what high sales taxes really mean dumb fucks
Taxfools 2 years ago
MathTruthTax
FreeLunchTax
SouthernFriedHoney
FarceTax
Are all the same person spamming all the fair tax debates.
riotuesday 2 years ago
Gravel could of gotten this bill passed, because he's a Democrat. Huckabee would of had an extremely difficult time, but I think people would have persuaded the house and senate.
cpblackangel88 2 years ago
@cpblackangel88 NO one could get this passed you retard -- no one. Because dumb fuck it's insane shit
It's the worlds highest tax -- and its applied to your rent. Do you fucking think Congress is going to pass a massive RENT tax dumb fuck?
ITs a massive tax on FOOD dumb fuck, on CANCER treatment dumb fuck.
It sounds great to you dumb fucks -- but you dumb fucks would shit your pants when you found out what it really means, you fucking idiot.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Well I'm for extremely small government so I'd put it at 15% and give excemptions on food,water,medicine,insurance,and education.
cpblackangel88 2 years ago
cpb you are for extremely stupid thought, moron. A 15% tax like you say, with exemptions for food, water, medicine, would not bring in 1/4 of what fed tax gets now, dumb ass.
Got that you fucking retard? It wont fucking work moron. Get something that works you fucking idiot, not this insane fucking nonsense.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Umm not if you cut spending enough. I'm pretty much for massive spending cuts. Also I'm sorry,because I meant 18% when I wrote that. I was tired.
cpblackangel88 2 years ago
CP -- cut spending enough?
Sure - cut Soc Security, the Pentagon, and Medicare -all in half -- get rid of NASA and the national debt -- you do it for 18%.
Otherwise dumb fuck - you are blowing jelly up your ass whole.
So guess what happens dumb fuck when you try to cut social security and medicare in half -- you are demonized as wanting to kill the elderly.
Cutting spending you dumb fuck is political suicide.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Hah you don't have a clue do you. 18% would bring in around 1.8 trillion dollars,because the Fair Tax at 23% brings in 2.3. Now in 1988 that was the budget and was government to small than?
cpblackangel88 2 years ago
Fair Tax helps both the poor, the middle class, and the wealthy. The people who get hurt are the illegal immigrants and other criminals. We need to pass this bill in order to save America.
cpblackangel88 2 years ago
This "un-fair" tax is easily debunked when one considers my situation. I now retired after working and paying taxes for many years. I live off of my savings.
Essentially, I have already paid my taxes. I might add I paid a lot. Now you want me to pay taxes on the money that I have saved when I spend it? Are you stupid? This unfair tax has no chance.
mtrochesset 2 years ago
Completely untrue, by having the fair-tax implemented will MOTIVATE YOU to come up with your own business from the comfort of your home... why??? because NOW you won't be penalized to produce, and guess what,,,, you will have more INCOME (not just the broken security system), and GUESS WHAT??? the economy will increase, and GUESS what else??? if you don't consume above the poverty consumption you won't have to PAY TAXES.. DO YOU GET IT NOW???
garciadelacadena 2 years ago
Garcia dumb fuck - if you get cancer idiot - its a huge cancer tax. If you buy a new home -- well dumb fuck, there wont be any new homes, when you tax the living fuck out of them retard.
GUESS what retard -- it's a fucking hoax, it's a farce, it's own leaders are not trying to pass it.
GET IT NOW dumb fuck
Taxfools 2 years ago
Soy espejo y me reflejo, Hijo de tu reputisisima Madre!!!!
Huge Tax is what the government currently takes on Taxes!!! You know nothing about how the fair tax works, neither any knowledge about how the economy works, you should use your brain before spitting pendejadas, gamboringo, metencato.
and finally!!! VETE MUCHO A CHINGAR TU MADRE PINCHE PUTO!!!
garciadelacadena 2 years ago
Cancer, new homes, anything already has huge embedded taxation included in the price. Corporate taxes that hospitals, drug companies, builders, etc pay on their profits get passed onto consumers in the form of higher prices. Those taxes on cancer and homes that you complain about under the Fair Tax already exist under the current system, it's just they're hidden in the price of the good/service. What difference is there in terms of overall taxation if we hide the tax or make it transparent?
oterj0 2 years ago
OT dumb fuck -- try to comprehend the basics you fucking idiot.
Even IF new homes had huge embedded taxes dumb fuck - when you lunatics tax them 30%, you fucking idiot, people will not buy them. Got that you fucking retard?
Far less new homes will be sold you fucking idiot. So then, you fuck tard, FT will have to RAISE taxes on the shit that sold even with a high tax.
Got that you fucking idiot? FT leaders know this retard, they are not trying to pass this shit.
Taxfools 2 years ago
Fairtax wont lower anything -- it's a hoax. It's pure BS. The leaders have NO intention of passing it, they know it's a magic pony that supposedly shits gold.
In the fine print, Fairtax gets almost 2 trillion dollars by a total bogus tax on the GOVERNMENT.
They KNOW its bullshit -- that's why they hide it in their fine print.
They know without this tax the government nonsense -- they would have to admit a sales tax rate of 60-90%, which would be insane.
Its total BS.
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
Hey, give it a break! You don't have to be an asshole everyday of your life! Are you stupid or brain dead? You work for the Fed Government, right? IRS? Maybe the "Federal Reserve", huh? Why the fear? They say that if you want to know who has the most to lose when we propose to shit can the present tax system and replace it with the Fair Tax just pay close attention to those that scream the loudest-they have the most to lose when they can no longer keep their hands in our pockets!
jacknash711 2 years ago
jack -- wrong. I would love for this goofy tax to pass. My point is -- the Fairtax leaders know it's pure bullshit and arent trying to pass it. Its a hoax, a farce, its insane crap.
The tax would be 60-90% -- not 23%. It will never even get a hearing under oath because the leaders KNOW their own plan is a HOAX.
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
@TaxTheGovernment Why are you spamming every Fairtax debate asshole.
Hey guys look at SouthernFriedHoney Same guy different account.
riotuesday 2 years ago
I see a lot wrong with the present tax code -- mostly because work, wages and self employed pay up to 300% higher tax rates on the SAME money.
Just because you worked for your money -- you are taxed far higher?? Why not tax all income the same.
Still -- the fairtax is pure BS hoax. It pretends to get almost 2 trillion by taxing the government. Its total bs, and fairtax leaders know it. Its not a serious plan at all. It's a hoax, a farce.
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
Anyone who believes that the Feds can eliminate all income, payroll, gift, estate, and corporate taxes and instead rely merely on consumption taxes (and only from the rich) is living in a deluded fantasy where math, like logic, is dead.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
The FairTax will LOWER our tax burden because it spreads the tax load to illegals and criminals. It'll LOWER prices because manufacturers will no longer need to embed the cost of all their tax attorneys (about $900 per person right now) into thier retail prices. Oh, and the poor won't pay anything to the fed gov, since they'll be totally "untaxed" by the prebait. It'll also make it easier to see when the fed gov raises it's budget.
urgener 2 years ago
The Fair tax would literally destroy the United States. Consumption would grind to a halt, production would implode, the poor would be even more impoverished, and the government would have no income.
hoodoo961 2 years ago
How do you figure? There has been over $20 million in research by real tax and economic specialists. The Fair Tax would eliminate federal taxes on income, gifts, estates, capital gains, Social Security, Medicare, self-employment and the alternative minimum tax. It would include a prebate to low-income people on the FairTax they pay up to the federal poverty level. It would greatly grow our economy, which is without a doubt needed
johnreed81 2 years ago
So, all that money coming in from the millions of people who currently pay NO kind of income tax would be detrimental to our economy. The fact that drug dealers and illegals would now pay taxes means nothing I guess.
capttheo1 2 years ago
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Fairtax is dead -- cause it was goofy nonsense. The Fairtax leaders KNOW its bullshit.
Fairtax is actually a MASSIVE new tax that they don't tell you about. Its a massive new tax on cities and states, on every government entity, except education.
But Fairtax hides this trillion dollar tax in their fine print.
Thats why Fairtax would NEVER have a hearing under oath - they KNOW this tax on government is pure bullshit. Thats why its in their fine print.
It died. RIP
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Your argument is week when you consider, income taxes are like this.
Imagine a group. Every year, each chips in 22% of his income to pay for things important to the group. Last year the group decided they need a bridge. Among them were some bridge builders that bid on the project. One was awarded the contract. He built the bridge, and was payed upon completion. The group's spending was income for some of its members, and after paying their group tax, it is counted in this years tax receipts.
dtvgmedia 2 years ago 3
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Check this shit out -- Fairtax claims it "will make the federal government a MAJOR taxpayer"
Yeah, and I got a MAJOR magical pony to sell you that shits gold.
Fairtax also claims every city, state, police department, veteran's hospital, etc will be major taxpayers too.
Dumb fucking liars -- only PEOPLE pay taxes.
Google Fairtax absurdity
Why the fuck do you think retailers hate it, and Corporations laugh at it?
Cause it's a fucking fairy tale.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
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TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
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TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
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I start off thinking that anyone who fucking says you can tax the government to get most of government revenue is either a dumb fucker or a lying fucker.
Fairtax seems to be a bunch of lying fuckers, who fooled some dumb fuckers.
IowaSea 2 years ago
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What the fuck does Missouri have to do with it, idiot. Does the Missouri Fairtax put the highest sales tax on earth -- and pretend the government pays itself that, you dumb ass?
Cause thats exactly what the fucking National Fairtax con artist bastards pretend -- their fucking math is a fucking joke.
They just pretend to get 1.5 trillion dollars by a fucking magic tax the government would pay itself
They know its pure bullshit dumb ass, they aren't even trying to pass it.
IowaSea 2 years ago
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You want to know where to start? Start with math, dumb ass. Start with fuchhing figuring out the bullshit con job lunacy of Fairtax pretending to fucking get most of its revenue by taxing the government.
Why the fuck do you think the hide such shit in back of the book? Like page 148. Under Fairtax Magic "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR tax payer"
IowaSea 2 years ago
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Did you really think everyone was so stupid they would not notice Fairtax is a farce?
Did you think no one would notice that Fairitax math is based on getting most of government revenue by making the government pay a huge tax -- to itself?
Just cause you believe in Magic Pony that shits gold, doesn't mean it's true.
Have you noticed how FT movement evaporated?
If Fairtax wasn't bullshit -- it would have a huge popular and business support, instead of a few nuts
IowaSea 2 years ago
You start off with assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, as if the debate were over. Please enlighten me good sir, where did you do your research I would like to see for myself. Do you point me in the right direction or is this philosophical pandering to iconic ideology?
matthartman19 2 years ago
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blakes314 2 years ago
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Fairtax lunatics pretend that the government will pay most of its own reveneue - by magically taxing itself on its own spending.
Yes -- its that frigging STUPID.
Google Fairtax absurdity.
FilmCriticOne 2 years ago
If I googled: "fairtax absurdity" I doubt I would get anything resembling an insightful discourse as to the pro's and con's of the fairtax.
matthartman19 2 years ago
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There is no pro fairtax discussion, Fairtax is a fucking con job you fucking idiot. Thats like saying you want a pro and con discussion on the Magic Pony that shits gold bricks.
Fairtax is absurd bullshit. You want to learn something, dumb ass, google Fairtax absurdity - look around. Think for your fucking self.
IowaSea 2 years ago
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Matt -- there IS no insightful discourse on Fairtax. It is literally a farce. It hides the fact it would be a massive NEW tax on cities and states, besides the sales tax on people.
Fairtax hid this in the fine print. That's how their math "adds up" --- by pretending to get 1.5 trillion FROM the government.
Its such fucking BULLSHIT that Fairtax avoids hearings -- no corporation supports it, retailers say its crazy -- its a fucking farce.
Google Fairtax absurdity, learn.
PowerPlantEngineer 2 years ago
BullshipDetector is just one of the names this person uses to spam with.
BullshipDetector, CanteenKid, FarceTax, FilmCriticOne, FreeLunchTax, IowaSea, NawwLeans, MakeMyPower, MarkDouglasC, MathTruthTax, MyBookDeal, MyBookWork, NavyBeer, NeilTaxCon, PrebateNonsense, RooferHoofer, SteamboatPolar, Taxfools, TaxSanity, TaxTheGovernment, TruthMattersToMe, TubeTaxPro, 12FlyMe
If anyone would care to join me in reporting this spammer, feel free to contact me for the email address of YouTube abuse.
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago 6
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Oh yeah Nagger, Im scared now. I will quit telling the truth on the lunatic farce tax.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
You reply as a dog in a corner.
matthartman19 2 years ago
The state of Missouri this week passed legislation to enact the FairTax on the state level. Missouri is gearing up for a deluge of businesses that will no doubt relocate to their state. Upon hearing this, the state of New Jersey has introduced similar legislation to help prevent the mass exodus of businesses from leaving their state for Missouri. Others are soon to follow. It's only a matter of time before this happens on the federal level. Thank God!
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago
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NAGGER IN the Fairtax answer book -- it says teh government will pay tax even on PAYROLL -- yes PAYROLL will be subject to tax Fairtax.
, NOt a payroll tax as a deduction - but all your government entities will have to pay not only 30 % tax on spending - but 30% tax on whatever they spent for PAYROLL.
Ask your CPA how state and city will pay for that. Go ahead, You said your CPA loved it. Ask her that . Or have her call me.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
So you're saying every individual in Missouri's state government is stupid and short sighted enough to just, go ahead with this legislation?
|
Flammer.
matthartman19 2 years ago
Well dig at least is sane. Yes - for Fairtax to work, you have to cut spending drastically -- 80% or so. That means no military, no NASA, no medciare or medicaid, no coast guard, no FAA -- no gov or military pensions.
IF you cut that drasticallly - - Fairtax works.
But unless you cut spending that much -- Fairtax is pure bullshit farce.
Right now, Fairtax pretends to get most of its revenue FROM the government - -which is bullshit lie, and they know it.
FreeLunchTax 2 years ago
In order to address the tax issue, we need to first address the issue of spending. Until we do that, Fair Tax will become nothing more than a concept that is debated on YouTube.
We need to get rid of Income Tax in order to introduce the Fair Tax. And to do that, we need to cut spending.
Cut spending, eliminate income tax, introduce fair tax, introduce tariffs... But it seems this country would rather go bankrupt (or have a revolution, or perhaps both) before it does that.
diggingforgold 2 years ago 2
Mike you feeble fuck -- tell us what the fuck in the fairtax prevents taxation on the poor? Nothing you dumb fuck, there ARE no exemptions or exceptions you idiot.
Mike just has no clue -- the feeble old bastard is clueless. Twenty years ago, MIke would have kicked the shit out of Fairtax con artist. Now, the dottering old man is a sucker for the bastards.
Fairtax has NO exemptions-- the poor would face HUGE taxes on rent, on utilitie, on EVERY fucking thing.
Its pure bullhit.
FreeLunchTax 2 years ago
Yes dumb ass -- I read the book, four times. And the second book.
Thats how I know so much about it.
For example retard -- I know there are NO exceptions or exemptions. Even the poor have to pay this -- even state and local government -- even the military - even federal government.
Of course the poor can't fucking pay it, of course the fucking government can't either -- thats just paying itself bullshit moron.
Gravel is a nice guy - but a dumb ass on this. He has no clue.
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
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Mike -- dumb ass-- are you pulling this outta your feeble ass?
There is nothing in Fairtax you fucking idiot that exempts anyone from any fucking tax dumb ass.
The poor would have to pay thefucking highest sales tax on earth you fucking lunatic dumb ass bastard -- on their rent -- their utilities -- their every fucking thing retard.
Oh -- the prebate? You dumb fuck -- thats 200 month -- no more fuck face. That wouldn't cover the sales tax on their fucking rent retard/
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
Ahh, kids. You are an idiot with a wonderful vocabulary and are a shining beacon of our government education system. Just because there are whole websites devoted to blasting and lying about the fairtax with ignorant arguments like yours, it does not make them true. You obviously have not read either book, and will believe anything you hear as long as it's fucking awesome, like you. Congratulations on being you.
randingod1 2 years ago
If you'll notice, he uses over 20 different names to troll FairTax videos. I've joined with a few other people to send complaints to YouTube abuse. If you're interested in joining us, contact me for the email address.
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago
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Nagger -- aren't you the one that claims your wife is a CPA, and her brother is a tax lawyer?
Good -they must be smart. Ask them if the government can create 1.5 trillion in income by putting a sales or income tax on the government.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
Mark, we've been over this a 1000 times so nothing I tell you will make a difference. You've made up your mind and nobody's going to change it, no matter how much education and/or experience they have. I have no problem that you disagree, but you use multiple names to spam, yes spam, multiple comments saying the same things over and over again. I'm organizing people to have you banned from YouTube because you won't quit. Your use of multiple names and profanity will be what does you in.
NAGGERNUTZ 2 years ago
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I read both books -- though the second one is such crap, I couldnt read every page.
Fairtax is a farce -- the leaders KNOW its a farce. Google Fairtax absurdity -- learn your ass from a donut.
BullshipDetector 2 years ago
please watch- geithner needs your help
ACP0913 2 years ago
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yes mike that is so -- retard/
Your bullshit Fairtax has NO FUCKING exemptions or exceptions. None you retarded old fuck.
The prebate you talk about wouldnt fucking cover the sales tax on their rent you idiot.
Much less the sale tax on everything else -- medical -- food - utilities - gas -- phone -- clothes - medicine - insurance
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
Its slight of hand -- this embedded stuff. Remember -- these are con artist who are trying to tell you they will make the government a MAJOR taxpayer - remember that. These are snake oil salesman.
I will send you an email -- its too long to do here.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
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I understand the embedded part of this very well. Its a smoke screen.
If you can't grasp that the government can pay most of its own revenue -- then you can't grasp the more subtle reality that the embedded tax argument is another con.
I will post again just on that.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
A contractor selling services to the government would charge enough to cover his income tax or go broke, right?
So the the governemnt would be "paying" the contractor's income tax, because it would be embedded in the price. The price would also include the contractor's other expenses which would be large enough to cover his suppliers embedded tax. And so on and on.
So the government pays all these other peoples' embedded income tax.
SO THEY ALREADY PAY AN EMBEDDED TAX already pays itself
2speed 2 years ago
Listen dumb ass - no matter what bullshit you spin in that dumb ass of your -- you cant fucking have the government pay most of its own revenue you dumb ass fuck head.
Either get a fucking clue -- or hell, you won't get a clue. YOu are a fucking idiot./
TaxTheGovernment 2 years ago
You dont need to be an expert.
Just read page148 of the Fairtax book "The federal government itself will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Then consider this same tax is on state - city - and local government too. Just imagine the Navy paying the US treasury a billion in sales tax for an aircraft carrier.
Its nonsensical. In fact, its so preposterous -- people are fooled by it.
But Fairtax leaders KNOW this is a gimmick. They know the government can't pay itself.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
Yes -- we need an entire new tax code - of course. The present tax code is as bad as Fairtax says it is.
But Fairtax is a gimmick -- a card trick -- bullshit. Its pretends to get most of the government revenue FROM the government. It sounds great -- until you understand the fine print.
Fairtax is more a study in psychology - deceptoin -- and gullibility. Its not a serious economic plan -- at best its a gimmick.
We need truth - not BS. Fairtax is BS.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
Fairtax is a farce. It pretends to get over a trillion dollars in sales taxes FROM the government.
Do your homework -- read the FT book -- page 148 "The federal government will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Not only will the FEDERAL governmen become a "Major tax payer" all state, county and local governments have to be "major tax payers' too -- they have to pay this same tax.
So Fairtax depends on absurd nonsense. Its not a serious plan -- its a lying gimmick, and the leaders know it.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
(cont)
I don't pretend to be an expert on every aspect of the Fair Tax, but I am an expert on the income tax. I represent people in conflict with IRS over an insane, illogical, biased and sometimes arbitrary tax system that picks winners and losers, usually the winners being the biggest political supporters. And I live with this current system 5 days a week, all year. And I have for 35 years. (cont)
2speed 2 years ago
(cont) Calling it a farce is not helpful. You may be right in that it won't work, but please try to understand this embedded tax concept before picking part of one sentence as proof the plan is a "farce".
The current system is going to collapse from its own weight. There is already rebellion from non-filers. Check article in today's NY Times re people not filing income taxes for 30 years because of their fear of the IRS. BTW, I'm out of a job if the Fair Tax is passed. (cont)
2speed 2 years ago
(cont)
The tax code doesn't need to be replaced with anything based on income. As long as tax is based on income it is designed to manipulate and favor some people and some behavior over others. That should not be the role of government. Tax to raise revenue, not subsidize your home purchase.
All moot, though. Congress will never pass this, even if it works. They won't give up their ability to pick winners and losers and sell favors. And if they did pass it without a const amend, they (cont)
2speed 2 years ago
(cont) And if they did pass it without a constitutional amendment, they would bring back the income tax and double up.
So, rest easy, it won't happen, but the current system is going to end up a train wreck. So we better come up with something.
Thanks for the conversation.
2speed 2 years ago
Critics oppose the Fair Tax without doing their homework, and just call people names. It is a change in the collection, not amount, of tax. It defines and limits collection costs. It is not an add-on sales tax. Critics don't understand concept of an embedded tax, which makes it work. Refunds (prebates) instead of exemption. No more: IRS, tax preparers, politicians selling tax favors, tax related suicide, due dates, underground economy. Income tax sucks. Is IRS Mafia or Gestapo or both?
2speed 2 years ago
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Fairtax is a farce. It pretends to get over a trillion dollars in sales taxes FROM the government.
Do your homework -- read the FT book -- page 148 "The federal government will become a MAJOR taxpayer".
Not only will the FEDERAL governmen become a "Major tax payer" all state, county and local governments have to be "major tax payers' too -- they have to pay this same tax.
So Fairtax depends on absurd nonsense. Its not a serious plan -- its a lying gimmick, and the leaders know it.
CanteenKid 2 years ago
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The fairtax is a bullshit farce -- so it doesn't insure shit, moron. It' a gimmick -- the math if purposely fucked up lie.
It pretends to get about half of government revenue -- FROM the government, which is dumber than dog shit -- but you retards buy it.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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Huck -- comment this pecker head. Your Fairtax shit is bogus nonsense and you know it.
Sure you can have a national sales tax -- but to replace all other taxes -- it would be over 60%, just like the studies have shown.
Fairtax pretend it can be 30% -- which is still very high -- by counting the money you lunatics pretend you can collect FROM the government. You bullshitters fool stupid people with this shit.
You fucking can't collect a sales tax FROM the government you idiot.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
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12FlyMe 2 years ago
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12FlyMe 2 years ago
No dumb ass - the government does NOT collect a trillion dollars in sales taxes from itself
Fairtax groupies believe this Magic Pony that shits gold.
People have exposed the Fairtax bullshit you dufus. Wise the fuch up.
One trick -- pretending to tax the government a trillion dollars every year in sales tax. And count that as income. Another insane bullshit they know is false --pretending they can collect 500 billion in sales taxes on medical expenses
Dumber than dog shit.
NawwLeans 2 years ago
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NawwLeans 2 years ago
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NawwLeans 2 years ago
Gravel isnt a con artist like Boortz. Gravel is just stupid.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Why would there be no exemptions for poor people, no exemptions for medical bills, rent, anything?
Because -- if they admitted there had to be exemptions, their fuched up math wouldnt work. It doesnt work anyway -- but they would be exposed.
So they tell your dumb ass that all prices will DROP -- that it wont fuching matter if they add the highest sales tax on earth.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
No dumb ass, people are taxed on everything you lunatic.
On rent, On food. On utility bills. On surgery. On EVERYTHING. There are no exemptions you lunatic.
Thats just the start of the bullshit. They also tax the government this same horse shit sales tax.
See- by pretending to be able to tax all this shit -- they can say the tax rate will be 23%..
Thats like saying 2 +2 = 5, therefore I am the pope. (Bertrand Russell)
12FlyMe 2 years ago
The Fair Tax purpose is to insure everyone who should pay taxes is paying tax, their propotional share. To reduce govt consumption of taxes requires a different solution. And, by the way, you are already paying taxes on all the items you mention above.
skmoguls 2 years ago
FT loonies pretend prices will DROP 23% when then put this tax on. Bullshit.
First all, you lunatics, that's not how sales tax work.
Second of all -- Boortz himself "clarified" this crap, when he admitted that for the huge extra tax to no increase prices -- all workers -- ALL WORKERS -- will have to "donate" any savings from this plan, to their employer.
Thats right dufus -- everyone has to DONATE the taxes they pay now TO their employer.
And THEN pay this idiot tax.
Its BS.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
Ok. So you have not read H.R. 25 for the 110th Congress??
Because everything is laid out for you there. No "donations" in the bill.
The people get taxed on products that are not necessary. This creates more jobs and brings competitiveness to American products. It also encourages saving.
ConservativeE 2 years ago
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You FT moonies better study the plan. Boortz has "clarified" his looney tune farce.
Now he admits that for the FT math to work -- all wage earners have to "voluntarily" donate the savings from no taxes, back to the employer.
Thats right -- you DONATE all the savings back to your employer, so he can lower prices.
And then -- after you donate all that back -- you pay the world''s highest sales tax.
So no - you don't already pay taxes like this dufus. Learn the Boortz bullshit.
12FlyMe 2 years ago
The problem with saying that the fairtax will increase the price of things is that those prices are set because of the taxes paid by the providers of services and products. Because of all the taxes, costs are higher and thus prices are higher. If we remove those costs, prices will drop, even as sales tax increases. The two effects will cancel out and the end result is the same total price and take home pay.
dontbugme384 2 years ago
Arguing over how much fairtax bring is, like arguing how tall a tree will grow if you have magic seeds. Its pure BS. Its a farce. Fairtax pretends to collect huge sales taxes FROM the government, on government spending. That's insane crap. Plus, it pretends all medical cost will pay this idiot tax. No way. How will medicare pay itself a tax -- yes - FT has medicare paying sales tax to itself, on all its spending. It even taxes new highway construction. Its crazy as hell.
12FlyMe 2 years ago