The Absolute PERFECT Definition of Actual Atheist Morality!?

[eatmylogic]

Well stated video. Today's advocates of "Biblical morality" confuse morals with obedience to authority. They mistrust human judgement because they think the psyches of all people are like theirs-- faged and repressed, ravening for self-gratification. But most people are willing to treat others as they themselves would be treated, not for fear of punishment, but becasue that is the way to get along and be happy.

[DanielMurphy007]

Ghostrider, do you understand the problem of moral relativism? All belief and philosophy is based on assumptions. The point of metaphysical pursuit is to refine these assumptions and better align them with the Truth (assuming there is a Truth). For theists, God is the ultimate truth and the first assumption, so it is the beginning of their deductive reasoning with regard to proper conduct. For a just-go-with-your-gut atheist, there is no bedrock.

[DanielMurphy007]

Ghost, i think you might be listening to your christ. I'll explain. Before Christian morality the creed was "an eye for an eye." Might made right. I don't know if there was a historical Jesus or not but it was only with Christian morality that "Do unto others..." became the golden rule. If your morals come from within then they are either the result of the culture you grew up in, a christian culture, or from a true inner voice, the "christ" not an external being but a part of every human psyche

[Ghostrider616]

If by Christ you mean my own enlightened self interest as well as my own ability to empathize with others and my own ability to teach other people the way I would like to be treated then sure, why not.

If however you are saying that my own cognitive abilities and emotional empathy for my fellow man is the product of an invisible Jewish zombie in the sky, then I'm afraid I'll have to disagree.

[warren52nz]

Well most people would agree that you shouldn't do something to someone that you wouldn't want them to do to you. Society can't function in anarchy.

But more to the point, the Bible tells you to kill gays, for example (LEV 20:13), but later it says Thou shalt not kill.

So my question to you is how do Christians decide what their morals are when the Bible contradicts itself?

An Ateist would have a sense that murdering someone is not moral behaviour, a Christian couldn't be certain.

[warren52nz]

Coolbreeze...

"I am afraid that the very simplistic and illogical position that you and many other Atheists..."

So your position is that Atheists are illogical??? Please give me YOUR logic for what you believe in and I'll give you mine.

But you should be warned, my logic is based on REAL evidence and peer reviewed, universally accepted ideas that survive the toughest scrutiny. The sort of logic that led to all of the technology you use every day including the PC you're using right now!

[sunskidd]

i'm not trying to just start a fight here i am just curious. what happens when two people who don't believe in God disagree on what is moral and what itsn't who is right, or what decides who is right? Just an honest question here.

[warren52nz]

The Bible's morality

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

[sunskidd]

I understand how you feel about the bible but what happens when two people who don't believe in God disagree on what is moral and what isn't? How do you decide wat is right?

[Atheistjeremy]

People disagree as to what is moral all the time. It has nothing to do with atheism.

[sunskidd]

absolutely I agree. But i just want to know how you decide who is right?

[Atheistjeremy]

Why are you even asking that question? How do YOU decide what is right? Listen to your conscience. Use reason, logic...common sense. We do the best we can with the mental faculties we've developed. How else would be decide?

[cooIbreeze]

Hello Ghostrider616. I am afraid that it is you who does not understand morality. May I ask you please. I am sorry but your very simplistic definition is not perfect. You seem very angry and I do not wish to ag you on sir. But allowing each person to decide what is wrong or right is actually moral anarchy. Can you please explain by what authority you would have to impose your views of adultery upon those who prefer to engage in those activities? Swingers for example.

[Ghostrider616]

It's a reply to a video called "Absolute PERFECT Definition of Actual Atheist Morality" which doesn't touch on morality at all and shows the poster knows NOTHING about morality. It's frustrating.

I don't seek to impose MY views on anyone, so I would not seek to do so.

Morality is routed in empathy and reciprocity and can be boiled down to acting in a manner that is consistent with the way one would expect other to act toward ourselves.

[cooIbreeze]

Hello again Ghostrider616. You said,"I don't seek to impose MY views on anyone." So then I assume that you do not vote. Is that correct? And you would never impose your views of morality upon your children. Is that correct? I am afraid that the very simplistic and illogical position that you and many other Atheists have decided to take was designed to avoid honest discussion on morality rather than to further it. You seemed to at first take the position that the immorality of adultery..cont

[cooIbreeze]

cont.. that the immorality of adultery was a no brainier. Stating that you did not need a "sky daddy" to tell you so. Yet, when provoked with the question of "swingers" you seem to back-peddle and refused condemn the behavior.

[SayYesToReason]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Invisible sky daddy... That's the best one I've heard yet!

[Ghostrider616]

I appreciate that! I can't take credit for it though, as I heard it before from a couple sources...

I'm growing more fond of "The Invisible Jewish Zombie Security Camera in the sky..."

[pejmul10]

Im a little confused...you say your an agnostic athiest? Isnt that a contradiction in terms? Agnosticism (Greek: α- a-, without knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of God, gods, deities, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently unknowable.. i dont want an answer, just throwing it out there

[LibertyIsNotGiven]

**"Im a little confused...you say your an agnostic athiest? Isnt that a contradiction in terms?"**

Someone can make no positive claims about the existence of gods and still not believe in any, hence he or she is an agnostic atheist, just as one can be an agnostic th/deist. The very Wiki article you apparently quoted from explains this.

[Ghostrider616]

Nope, not at all. I cannot claim the knowledge necessary to make a positive claim that there is no god.

LiNG covered it rather well, I'd only say that agnosticism deals with one's knowledge whereas atheism deals with one's beliefs.

[LibertyIsNotGiven]

I see bigjerre at least made a valiant effort to respond to you. I give him points for being a shameless glutton for intellectual abuse, if nothing else. He's definitely claiming knowledge of things he knows nothing about.

[Ghostrider616]

Thanks LiNG!

The guy has no real idea what he's talking about when it comes to morality as he still thinks that it has something to do with belief in his god, and his god alone...

[bigjerre]

I know exactly what I'm talking about. God gave us morals. I learn about WHY he set those laws in place. Makes sense, doesn't it? Of course murdering somebody isn't a good thing. God gave us anti-murder laws because it's a bad thing in his eyes. Therefore it should be a bad thing in our eyes too, because murder is taking away a precious life. People, USUALLY the non-religious, that believe in abortion fail to see these things simply because pre-birth baby murder is legal and "okay". Ugh.

[jitterycoffeedrinker]

What do you think about the death penalty?

[Ghostrider616]

I'm sure that's directed at Jerre, but I'll go out on a limb and answer that one too...

I'm against the death penalty when it comes to the state killing on our behalf. However I'm FOR the death penalty when it comes to defending one's own life or the lives of others.

I'd also some out of the radical closet a bit and say that I support the death penalty for child rapists and child molesters. Those sick fucks don't deserve to live.

[darkforce333]

Question: In an atheist morality how would someone argue against abortion. Conversely, how would you argue abortion is alright? Is this just morally right based on people's opinions or do you have a standard to judge whether abortion is right or wrong? To get to the point let's disregard special cases like a woman getting rapped or a woman at risk of losing her life.

[Ghostrider616]

My argument against abortion: Act in a responsible manner and it's not necessary.

99.9% of unwanted pregnancies not the result of incest, rape, or god can be ELIMINATED if the man and the woman having sex acted in a responsible manner.

I.e. Don't fuck, but if you must then make sure you take the necessary steps to not end up pregnant. Simple.

I despise the practice of abortion, but a despise the idea of a government telling someone what they can and cannot do with thier own body even more.

[Ghostrider616]

I LOATH abortion. I think it's nothing more than the last desperate act of people who are too ignorant or unwilling to take actions to prevent pregnancy.

That said, we have anti-murder laws because our government pass anti-murder laws.

God is a HYPOCRITE! He tells us "thou shall not kill," and then turns around and commands people to kill. YOUR GOD orders the killing of unborn children REPEATEDLY in the bible.

READ YOUR BIBLE! Not just the verses your preacher tells you to, but all of it.

[bigjerre]

I despise abortion; I just made a video on it (check it out; I leave religion out of the topic).

Thou shalt not kill translates as "thou shalt not murder"... and God specifically makes other laws where there are exceptions.

God eliminated the enemies of Israel to restore them to the Promised Land. Their enemies were way more dangerous at the time.

I do read my bible; you assumed I don't. I don't read only the verses preachers teach me; I read and learn on my own (you ASSUME I don't)

[Ghostrider616]

"thou shalt not murder"

What is the boundary between killing & murder?

What do you call it when god tells Moses to enter a village and slaughter the defenseless elderly, children, and WOMEN WITH CHILD?

"God eliminated the enemies of Israel"

God did no such thing. He tells Moses to commit genocide against the enemies of Israel. Instead people slaughtered other people.

"I do read my bible; you assumed I don't."

Yes, I did. Now I know that you simply cherry-pick the stuff you like from it.

[bigjerre]

"shameless glutton..."

Morally insulting. THIS is not empathy that Ghostrider was talking about. You LOSE Ling. You proved my entire point, as always. Why Ghostrider doesn't see the shameless hate and abuse demonstrated greatly by atheists is beyond me. What's right and wrong is simply what's NORMAL for the current time.

[LibertyIsNotGiven]

As always? Huh? How did I lose? I posted a scathing response to you, and you haven't even tried to address it.

Also, you omitted a few key terms. I said "shameless glutton for intellectual abuse," which might also be rendered "glutton for punishment" or any similar metaphor. Whatever point that you regard as "proved" remains hidden.

I'm sure some atheists demonstrate plenty of "shameless hate and abuse," as do many Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Pagans, so I doubt atheism is the cause.

[Ghostrider616]

"I'm sure some atheists demonstrate plenty of "shameless hate and abuse," as do many Christians, Muslims, Hindus and Pagans, so I doubt atheism is the cause."

AWESOME!

I'd only ad that MANY muslims, hindus, pagans, atheists, etc. have JUST as many, if not more so (numerically) moral, kind, loving and empathic people.

Of course, Jerre only thinks christians capable of these things because they all hinge on agreeing with Jerre and his God, of whom he is willfully IGNORANT.

[anarchyclayman]

i wouldn't bother debating morality with any one of the religions.

it's fucking useless.

both the bible and the koran contain dispicable acts that are shunned by most secular states of this day and age. any one of these religious 'people' will tend to forget these parts of their dogmatic reasoning handbooks of misogyny and homophobic hatred.

these books were written and rewritten by men, for men.

god does not exist.

[Ghostrider616]

"...any one of these religious 'people' will tend to forget these parts of their dogmatic reasoning handbooks of misogyny and homophobic hatred."

+10 for putting it bluntly. Bravo!

[BMWmotorrad14]

I like your accent when you say "if god tells you to go pick up a gun and kill someone, you'd do".

You can tell by the guys top 10 list on his personal page he's a nut job fascist.

[Ghostrider616]

I'm originally from Michigan, but years in East Tennessee has kinda snuck into my voice and accent... I treid REAL hard not to give in, but it was worthless...

Top that off with a little chest cold and my voice sounding a little more "nasal" than usual thanks to that cold and it did come off a little too "hick" even for my taste. :)

[LordShadrach]

Here is are questions to atheists: Where do you get your morals from?? What do you base your morals on exactly?

Btw, for the first 4 commandments were how man should deal with God. That is were you screwed up in your logic.

[Ghostrider616]

I can't speak for all atheists, but my moral compass is routed in Empathy and Reciprocity, the basis of ALL moral codes I've ever heard of.

The first 4 commandments have NOTHING to do with morality and only exist to control the masses. I have NO PROBLEMS with the other commandments at all. They are good moral precepts that people are well served observing.

However, ALL OF THEM are predated by other cultures and religions and texts that came about long before judaism or islam or christianity.

[bigjerre]

You DO know that emotion isn't evolutionary, right? Some would argue that we evolved morals, which is utter BS. Believe it or not, your morals come from the words presented in the bible; you just changed them to suit your wants. Your disacknowledgement of God giving you those morals stems from either rebellion, or simply "I don't care" attitudes. Either way, they are dangerous. Christianity shows love and compassion, not "It's my world, you just live in it, moral relativism mentality."

[LibertyIsNotGiven]

**"You DO know that emotion isn't evolutionary, right? Some would argue that we evolved morals, which is utter BS."**

Are you discussing emotion or morality? It isn't entirely clear. At any rate, both claims are false. The pertinent field of study is evolutionary psychology. Even some apes and monkeys display primitive forms of ethics.

For a guy who is so obviously and painfully ignorant of the world around him, you point the proverbial finger with disturbing enthusiasm.

[Ghostrider616]

Beat me to it! Damn!

[Ghostrider616]

EVERYTHING about life and society is evolutionary. Even religion evolves.

Morals are based in emotional and empathic connections within social groups. Even monkeys actually have moral codes.

It's about human inter-connectivity and can be boiled down to the golden rule, which PRE-DATES Judaism and christianity by CENTURIES!

If I got my morals from god, I might be throwing my virgin daughters out to mobs of rapists like Lot, or selling them into slavery like Leviticus says I can.

[bigjerre]

Moral relativism is a dangerous thing. IF, you followed the morals we have given by God, you would think otherwise. After all, CHRISTIANS are told to love, forgive, and be merciful. Atheists do it so long as it gets them what they want. I never even brought up the golden rule; it's common knowledge and can apply the simplest of people. You have no idea of why the old testament is CALLED teh old testament and the new is called the new. Otherwise you wouldn't be setting up your own strawmen.

[Ghostrider616]

God is the ULTIMATE MORAL RELATIVIST!

Jesus breaks the 1st commandment by demanding worship FIRST so you get then get Yahweh (the father), and the 5th by dishonoring his mother repeatedly.

World history is full of christians killing in the name of god!

In fact, Yahweh routinely ordered the israelites to murder, rape, pillage, slaughter, plunder, and enslave the tribes around them in direct violation of the commandments "set in stone" and propped up to be the end all and be all of morality.

[darkforce333]

"God is the ULTIMATE MORAL RELATIVIST!"

Yea but some argue graded absolutism where loving God is highest then loving others than it goes down the chain of presidence. Of course I don't know why it's so important not to tell a lie in order to prevent yourself from unjust punishment. Somehow the self is unimportant and God get's affected somehow to whether you lie or not.

[LibertyIsNotGiven]

**"Atheists [love, etc.] so long as it gets them what they want."

Do you have any evidence supporting this claim? Even if you're right, how does that make Christian morals any less subjective or relativistic? Morality that shifts based on a deity's wishes is not objective.

A straw-man is a logical fallacy by which one misrepresents his opponent's position and proceeds to attack on those grounds, rather than attack the actual position. No one responding to you here has engaged in that fallacy.

[bigjerre]

AND, the kicker, you proved my POINT when you said "Invisible Sky Daddy". That perfectly equates that you don't want to take religion seriously from any point of view whatsoever. You're morally ignorant, and chose to ridicule God in that statement, hence you ridicule those who follow Him. I don't doubt that you want good things in life; I doubt you want to seek a truthful answer in something you intend to ridicule.

[Ghostrider616]

How does saying that make me morally ignorant when you make an 8 minute video claiming to talk about morality when you don't even know what morality is? THAT is the definition of moral ignorance.

The difference between you and me is I don't need a carrot (heaven) dangled in front of me to get me to do the right thing and I don't need the flames of Hell licking at my heels to keep me from doing wrong.

God isn't an issue at all. I do the good thing PRECISELY because it is the right thing to do.

[bigjerre]

Again you show your ignorance. You're saying that because I'm threatened with hellfire, that I want to do good simply because I'm afraid of hell? Of course you'll say "Well I've read the bible", but if you did, you'd know that no Christian is worthy of heaven, no matter how "good" they are. It is trust and faith in God that lets us pull through and achieve salvation; not good works. Again it's just simply IGNORANCE that leads you to say these things which you really know little about.

[Ghostrider616]

I have two bibles. One is WELL worn from when I was a christian, the other a study bible I bought AFTER becoming an atheist so I could better inform myself.

You seem to think that without the invisible Jewish zombie security camera in the sky, everyone will act like mad, primitive loons, a lot like the early Israelites did according to the bible. Oh the Irony!

And yet you ignore that fact that there are a great many moral people on this earth that don't believe in your god. How can that be?

[bigjerre]

See? you're doing nothing but ridiculing religion; hence you are ridiculing everybody who believes in religion. You say otherwise, you're lying.

I don't have a problem as much with other religions as I do people who don't follow religion. Religion brings up base sets of morals. Atheists don't have them, and hence I have to listen daily to the insults and ridicule from atheists (and even from other religions as well).

[Ghostrider616]

Yes, I'm poking fun at chrsitianity. I'm also responding to YOUR ridiculing atheists and morality.

Pot, Kettle. Kettle, pot.

The morality of the bible was CLEARLY constructed within the context of the nomadic society of the Israelites long ago (women were property, slavery was acceptable, and you stoning was appropriate).

I follow most of the same moral precepts that you do, but I get them from their REAL source (empathy & reciprocity), not an ancient text claiming authorship after the fact.

[darkforce333]

"I follow most of the same moral precepts that you do, but I get them from their REAL source (empathy & reciprocity), not an ancient text claiming authorship after the fact."

Ok this is what I don't get. If God is unaffected by sin and some sin helps us be better as a society (i.e. lying to a criminal) why does God feel the need to punish people? Also if stoning, or other harsh punishments, was to keep the christian camp pure, as some would argue, why doesn't God have us do it today?

[Ghostrider616]

Because biblical moral absolutes aren't necessarily so...

Some Christian and biblical morality has evolved over time to realize that slavery, sexism, bigotry, and the other "less tha favorable" aspects of the biblical "morality" were IN FACT IMMORAL.

In a way, the human race grew out of it's primitive understanding of morals and realized that in doing so we are more moral than god...

[bigjerre]

Let's see... how do you know what's right from wrong? Do you know what is right from wrong? How is it you can determine what is acceptable now, and what will be acceptable now in the exact same scenarios presented to you 10 years from now when they will change?

I don't force religion down peoples' throats. Christians are encouraged to make disciples of all nations.

[Ghostrider616]

I know right from wrong the same way you do; I was taught.

Morality changes, that's why Christians no longer think of women as property, slavery as acceptable, or stoning as appropriate, because christian morality changed with time.

I can tell you that 10 years from now, I'll still not want to kill anyone, steal from anyone, or sleep with someone else's wife. That won't change because ALL REAL morality is based on empathy and reciprocity and not dictates from ancient mythological books.

[bigjerre]

First you showed more ignorance when you say that Christians no longer think of women as property, etc. Christians NEVER did such a thing. It was the Israelites in the bible that did such things, and they were protection laws (if you ever bother to study about them). 10 years from now, if they passed a law saying "It's now okay to drink while driving", how many more people would get killed? Yet, people complain about the passive laws now that say the government shows no morals or compassion.

[Ghostrider616]

You really don't have any idea what's in the bible, do you?

What kind of "protection law" is it that tells you the "proper" way to sell your daughters into sexual slavery?

10 years from now NO ONE would ever propose a law saying it's okay to drink and drive. You're propping up an idiotic straw man to knock down while IGNORING THE QUESTIONABLE MORALITY YOUR GOD HAS GIVEN US.

Yahweh, YOUR GOD, routinely ordered the isrealites to murder, rape, pillage and plunder the nations around it.

[anarchyclayman]

leviticus.

[Ghostrider616]

BigJerre, please watch this video and tell me what you think...

/watch?v=A-hPmCkO9lU