what are you on about. Listen with the left hand until the chi arrives?? nonsense. The chi is there under the skin. its is either flowing or is blocked. its always there. it doesnt arrive at a certain time.
The truth is simple. You must obtain the chi with handwork. The chi will not build at the point unless you have clearly found it with the needle. And no. It doesnt just arrive. It must be manipulated vigorously until it moves.
You seem so certain about what you MUST do. I just treated a patient minutes ago and I assure you, that when needling, the Qi built up from a small to a distinct vibration with no manipulation. Leaving a marked change in the pulse. Additionally, a simple insertion (1mm) and withdraw on GB42 relieved their headache.
Do you use the Yuan points in treatment?
Do you combine herbs and needles?
Don't you think it is exciting that you may not have to cause your patients discomfort to help them?
There is a river of energy running under the skin. It is impossible. Let me repeat. IMPOSSIBLE. to influence that river of energy with a simple insertion. Even a very vigorous manipulation often yields nothing. Ur patients tell u they feel better. But im sorry dude. That is unlikely. It is not exciting in the slightest that u cause no discomfort because u fail. You yourself know as well as i do that u dont really know if u are getting the chi. U think. Because of the 'theory'. China! Go.
I know I'm getting Qi because I feel the sensation of Qi, patients feel the sensation of Qi. Don't you understand what I'm saying or can you not accept it!!!???
If it were impossible to influence the qi with simple insertion, how does off body Qi healing work?
Search "John Chang" to see that in action.
Also, you didn't answer my questions in regards to yuan source points and herbs, please do.
Finally, just because a majority of people do something doesn't make it the only way.
Let me suggest something to you. Take a holiday to China and book yourself in with as many acupuncturists u can find. Eventually u will bump into one who can actually do it. Then two things will happen. First. You will think. Oh shit. What have i been doing all these years. And second u can actually then begin learning how to do it. Acupuncture is very simple.Ur only priority is to obtain the chi, you feel the blockage with your hands. thats all the hands can do. it is all about the needle skill
I will try to get you a small clip of how to successfully needle the point Fu Liu. Kidney 7 as the west calls it. I cant promise because i have never uploaded anything on this and do not wish to distribute it widely. If i can just send it to u i will do it. Thanks for the discussion.
It's dead easy to upload a video... Search, how to upload video on youtube. You don't have to make it available to everyone. I will endeavor to get some footage that will prove my point better. Thank you too.
this is not meant to be offensive or dis respect you. it is a debate. Im making a point i think is very important. you are not alone is thinking what u are doing is working. im just saying it doesnt.
oh by the way. 'obliterating' the chi is impossible. its not true that a strong contact with the needle with make you lose or disperse it.
That guy in the video is obviously an amateur. look at the way he is holding the needle. And look at the way he inserts it. The needle should never be inserted gently. All the nerves are on the surface of the skin. Higher chance of skin pain. Needle should be hit in hard to clear the nerves. finally. anyone can put it in as he is. i wouldnt pay him a penny.
Firstly 'ninjapuncture' how am i trying to pretend we dont use chi in acupuncture. Im saying the guy in the video failed. He is supposed to get the chi. That 'style' of needling achieves nothing. The priority and only priority of the doctor is to obtain the chi. If the chi is obtained by such a simple and gentle technique then giving someone a back rub would open all the points. There is no such thing as a pleasant trickling. If the chi is obtained there is a shock. end of. no shock. no chi.
Well obviously you haven't trained yourelf to feel Qi, or move your own Qi and use it in treatment. You are using a needle like a simpleton. It may work for some cases, but it ain't nice, and i bet you need herbs too.
Just bung a needle in, twist it, thrust it, dull ache and that's Qi. Bull Twang. In massage there is a technique called Single Finger Meditation. This is similar to tonification needling, but in acupuncture we use the needle as a conduit. It is about focused intension.
Using the needle like a simpleton?? first u have never seen my handwork. secondly thats exactly what u do. bung it in twist it thrust it whatever is needed cause once you get the chi the job is done. Lets see you open an entire kindey meridian on a mentally ill patient and witness the change in their personality. HE DIDNT GET THE CHI IN THE VIDEO. NO WAY. its clear as day. not a chance in hell. becuase he clearly did not move the needle.
I can see immediatly from the video he failed to get the chi. sorry but it is obvious if you know what is required to move the energy. And by the way. If you have never felt a clear and strong shock when having acupunture every time on every point you probably dont evenknow what the chi is
On the contrary good sir, perhaps it is just that you have never experienced the pleasant trickling of Qi through the meridians that results from this style of needling.
I would illicit a "strong shock" in the patient only if I wanted to move very stubborn stagnation.
In tonification, it is important that the bodies "get out" response that we aim for in dispersion does not occur.
We can talk theory all day and night. Please visit my blog for patient testimonials and case histories.
I have practiced acupunture for 40 years in harley street london. I find that these people who charge patients money to put a needle in them offensive. he has no needle handwork in the video. any fool can put a needle into someone. u cant move chi except with a needle. sorry no pressure by the hand will unblock blocked chi.
Oh dear lord. Does this moron really think he is good at acupuncture. The chi is obtained through vigourous manipulation. All that nonsense he was spouting was literally irrelevant. And he hardly moved the needle. So = no chi.
"those who know how to apply the needle rely on their left hand, those who do not know how to apply the needle rely on their right hand"
Let me help you make sense of the "irrelevant nonsense". By using your Pi to move Qi through your Lung and Large Intestine meridians to the tip of the needle you may influence the patients qi.
What this "moron" is showing you is a highly sophisticated and subtle traditional method of needling.
what are you on about. Listen with the left hand until the chi arrives?? nonsense. The chi is there under the skin. its is either flowing or is blocked. its always there. it doesnt arrive at a certain time.
The truth is simple. You must obtain the chi with handwork. The chi will not build at the point unless you have clearly found it with the needle. And no. It doesnt just arrive. It must be manipulated vigorously until it moves.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
You seem so certain about what you MUST do. I just treated a patient minutes ago and I assure you, that when needling, the Qi built up from a small to a distinct vibration with no manipulation. Leaving a marked change in the pulse. Additionally, a simple insertion (1mm) and withdraw on GB42 relieved their headache.
Do you use the Yuan points in treatment?
Do you combine herbs and needles?
Don't you think it is exciting that you may not have to cause your patients discomfort to help them?
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
There is a river of energy running under the skin. It is impossible. Let me repeat. IMPOSSIBLE. to influence that river of energy with a simple insertion. Even a very vigorous manipulation often yields nothing. Ur patients tell u they feel better. But im sorry dude. That is unlikely. It is not exciting in the slightest that u cause no discomfort because u fail. You yourself know as well as i do that u dont really know if u are getting the chi. U think. Because of the 'theory'. China! Go.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
I know I'm getting Qi because I feel the sensation of Qi, patients feel the sensation of Qi. Don't you understand what I'm saying or can you not accept it!!!???
If it were impossible to influence the qi with simple insertion, how does off body Qi healing work?
Search "John Chang" to see that in action.
Also, you didn't answer my questions in regards to yuan source points and herbs, please do.
Finally, just because a majority of people do something doesn't make it the only way.
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
I agree with you that the priority of the doctor is to get Qi. So let me explain to you how I would do that.
1. Palpate for the point to find the specific location of the point. (this may be a 1mm nodule or hole)
2. Listen with left hand on the point until I feel the Qi arrive (this is often a light buzzing depending on the nature of the point)
3. Insert needle
4. Focus on the tip of the needle, meridian, patient, desired outcome
5. Feel the Qi to build at the point.
6. Withdraw and seal
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
WhereUBean,
1. If needling this way achieves nothing then why have I experienced
a)dramatic pulse changes (from frail to strong etc.)
b)instant alleviation of symptoms (headache, nausea, fatigue, back pain etc.)
c)feeling the Qi move up my leg and warm my lower dan tien
I do some Qi Gong, so I know what it feels like for the Qi to move and I'm telling you. There is a whole lot more to it's movement than- dull ache.
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
Let me suggest something to you. Take a holiday to China and book yourself in with as many acupuncturists u can find. Eventually u will bump into one who can actually do it. Then two things will happen. First. You will think. Oh shit. What have i been doing all these years. And second u can actually then begin learning how to do it. Acupuncture is very simple.Ur only priority is to obtain the chi, you feel the blockage with your hands. thats all the hands can do. it is all about the needle skill
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
I again refer you to the Nan Jing Chapter 78.
Left hand is more important than right hand.
And again, maybe that is all YOU can do with your hands.
I know there are many skilled acupuncturists who get results using needle manipulation. I'm sure they would rock my world.
The whole point is that you are saying it is essential.
Maybe you should take your own advise and look into adding another string to your bow.
Please. Video a treatment, show me a case history, blow my mind...
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
I will try to get you a small clip of how to successfully needle the point Fu Liu. Kidney 7 as the west calls it. I cant promise because i have never uploaded anything on this and do not wish to distribute it widely. If i can just send it to u i will do it. Thanks for the discussion.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
It's dead easy to upload a video... Search, how to upload video on youtube. You don't have to make it available to everyone. I will endeavor to get some footage that will prove my point better. Thank you too.
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
this is not meant to be offensive or dis respect you. it is a debate. Im making a point i think is very important. you are not alone is thinking what u are doing is working. im just saying it doesnt.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
oh by the way. 'obliterating' the chi is impossible. its not true that a strong contact with the needle with make you lose or disperse it.
That guy in the video is obviously an amateur. look at the way he is holding the needle. And look at the way he inserts it. The needle should never be inserted gently. All the nerves are on the surface of the skin. Higher chance of skin pain. Needle should be hit in hard to clear the nerves. finally. anyone can put it in as he is. i wouldnt pay him a penny.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
Firstly 'ninjapuncture' how am i trying to pretend we dont use chi in acupuncture. Im saying the guy in the video failed. He is supposed to get the chi. That 'style' of needling achieves nothing. The priority and only priority of the doctor is to obtain the chi. If the chi is obtained by such a simple and gentle technique then giving someone a back rub would open all the points. There is no such thing as a pleasant trickling. If the chi is obtained there is a shock. end of. no shock. no chi.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
Well obviously you haven't trained yourelf to feel Qi, or move your own Qi and use it in treatment. You are using a needle like a simpleton. It may work for some cases, but it ain't nice, and i bet you need herbs too.
Just bung a needle in, twist it, thrust it, dull ache and that's Qi. Bull Twang. In massage there is a technique called Single Finger Meditation. This is similar to tonification needling, but in acupuncture we use the needle as a conduit. It is about focused intension.
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
Using the needle like a simpleton?? first u have never seen my handwork. secondly thats exactly what u do. bung it in twist it thrust it whatever is needed cause once you get the chi the job is done. Lets see you open an entire kindey meridian on a mentally ill patient and witness the change in their personality. HE DIDNT GET THE CHI IN THE VIDEO. NO WAY. its clear as day. not a chance in hell. becuase he clearly did not move the needle.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
WherUBeaN, you are a flat lander.
Acupuncture is a 3 dimensional, dynamic, energetic art form.
Why do Acupuncturists keep trying to pretend we don't use Qi in acupuncture?
Has the world gone Cuckoo?
If you can't feel Qi or influence it without obliterating it, then you are what the classics refer to as a third rate doctor.
For all you Acupuncture students out there, ignore this dusty old skeleton. Learn some Qi Gong. Da Qi is Dumb Qi. Explore the classics. Peace Out.
ninjapuncture 2 years ago
I can see immediatly from the video he failed to get the chi. sorry but it is obvious if you know what is required to move the energy. And by the way. If you have never felt a clear and strong shock when having acupunture every time on every point you probably dont evenknow what the chi is
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
On the contrary good sir, perhaps it is just that you have never experienced the pleasant trickling of Qi through the meridians that results from this style of needling.
I would illicit a "strong shock" in the patient only if I wanted to move very stubborn stagnation.
In tonification, it is important that the bodies "get out" response that we aim for in dispersion does not occur.
We can talk theory all day and night. Please visit my blog for patient testimonials and case histories.
worldacupuncture 2 years ago
I have practiced acupunture for 40 years in harley street london. I find that these people who charge patients money to put a needle in them offensive. he has no needle handwork in the video. any fool can put a needle into someone. u cant move chi except with a needle. sorry no pressure by the hand will unblock blocked chi.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
Oh dear lord. Does this moron really think he is good at acupuncture. The chi is obtained through vigourous manipulation. All that nonsense he was spouting was literally irrelevant. And he hardly moved the needle. So = no chi.
WherUBeaN 2 years ago
Nan Jing chapter 78:
"those who know how to apply the needle rely on their left hand, those who do not know how to apply the needle rely on their right hand"
Let me help you make sense of the "irrelevant nonsense". By using your Pi to move Qi through your Lung and Large Intestine meridians to the tip of the needle you may influence the patients qi.
What this "moron" is showing you is a highly sophisticated and subtle traditional method of needling.
I hope you are a first year student...
ninjapuncture 2 years ago