This is also why people tended to like the protagonist of San Andreas more and the protagonist of Vice City even more. One was a ghetto punk fighting the power and getting rich in the process and the other was a psychopath gangster. Anarchy is practically in their blood. For Nico Belic his character seemed to be at odds with the way the game is played.
Fantastic video, it really helps explain the bland feeling that GTA4 can leave you with after playing it.
I'd love to see you talk about the transition of the GTA series from 3 to 4, covering not only Vice City and San Andreas, but the portable spin offs too (if you've played them). Also I'd like to know what you think about the direction Saints Row is taking in contrast to the direction of GTA4, which while silly still seems to focus too heavily on directing the player (imo).
Rockstar should watch this. I still cannot understand how such a beautiful game bored the hell out of me. I just finished it out of a sense of "gamer´s duty". I am going to wait some time after GTA V comes out before I buy it, maybe this time they will be able to make it fun like Vice City was.
Another thing, the lack of responsiveness was frustrating... "Run, idiot, run! Now stop! Stop I SAID!! SHOOOT YOU PIECE OF CRAP!"
U have some valid points, but overal i have enjoyed this game because of its reallity. The game looks so good and the physics and AI of other people in the world give u the idea of being part of the GTA world. I still play this game sometimes to discover something i have never seen before, i still get to places i have never been. Thats the power is this game, and thats what knocks over your theoraticle rant. GTA4 outgrew its child status and became adult therefore there is no reason to compare.
You bring up a lot of good criticism, but as a relatively new player to the Grand Theft Auto franchise, I didn't miss the older, chaotic mechanics that much. I found the narrative engrossing, and I don't believe the irony of Niko's actions vs. his stated objectives is lost on the writers - rather, I think it's "the point," in as much as there is one, and some characters openly comment on it.
Regardless of its mechanical flaws, I believe that, for those reasons, it is a *very* important game.
I agree. I see Campster's criticism and can't really say anything against it other than that I really, really enjoyed GTAIV and played through it about 5 times. This is the game I spent the most time with and had the most fun+immersion of the whole current generation. There are flaws, obvious flaws, but some things have been done right, very right. I loved it.
I need to comment, like so many did before me. Good videos. They have what most (99.9% really) of so called video game critics (and their lousy "reviews") lack. Namely, real criticism. You actually seem to know a thing or two about game design which is reflected in your reflections on uh... you know...
I can't believe how bad the missions are. You spend five minutes driving to a destination, shoot someone and drive back. But 50 yards from the start of the mission which you drove to, you get a phone call for the real mission you wanted to try which is on the other side of town in which you just came from. The characters and dialog are incredibly stupid like all GTA games. I took Kate and Michelle on lots of date only to learn that there is no point, no abilities unlocked. Fuck this game.
I really didn't care for Niko's story, but I enjoyed just about everything else with GTA IV. The silly commercials, shows, radio stations, all that stuff. And I think in order to avoid lengthy driving for those that don't like it, they should just make a fast travel system. Taxis are good for skipping to the destination, but shouldn't be the only option.
Just saying, I love GTA4 and none of its flaws prevented me from enjoying it. I actually fucked around with a friend on co-op for about 3 hours earlier today and it was incredibly fun.
I've always thought of GTA IV as Rockstar's Journeyman-piece. They decided to focus more on deep story-telling than mayhem-causing. To some degree they succeeded: the story is, at parts, awkward and hammy, but the characters can be deep and engaging, and seeing the story through to the end results in a satisfying (if depressing) conclusion.
It wasn't until Red Dead Redemption that they would achieve a Masterpiece. I was left in awe of the impact that the story and characters had on me.
Liked and subscribed. Came here on mention from Shamus Young, and I'm glad to say I've found another dude that can talk about a game just as intelligently. :P
Excellent work! I really enjoyed this, and I'm looking forward to more. I was directed here from Twenty Sided, and I hope that nod gets you more views -- you certainly deserve them!
I want to agree with you but I ultimately can't. I can appreciate why its narrative was shit, but the core gameplay was a flawed concept. Having to take a Dramamine before I fire up the console then having no reference for why I just missed a jump or how close I was or couldn't grab a ledge or you name it.
It is bullshit to frustrate players and to shoe horn every new game into some version of an fps.
I'm a fan of these videos (watched four so far since Twenty Sided sent me here an hour ago), but this guy likes the word "kinesthetically" too much.
I'm not even sure he's using it properly. It's actually one of our senses (no, we don't have just five!). It's the one that lets us sense the position of our body in space and how it's moving. Sensing where my elbow is has nothing to do with gaming.
@thebigJ1er Yeah, Kinesthetics is more or less a synonym for proprioception. The word "Kinaesthetics" has been co-opted and, admittedly, mangled by game developers to mean (in very broad terms) the "feel" of a game. It's shorthand, in this case, for virtual proprioception (see Steve Swink's book "Game Feel")
I don't mind his use of "kinesthetically" when he talks about how intuitive the controls are. I'd be like if he used aesthetics to talk about how good the graphics looked, which is just as valid. I'd argue that its use here works because, at least in a third person game, you have a sense of where in space the totality of your character is.
@noblebearaw Well, no. Aesthetics has to do with how something looks artistically, which applies directly to a game's visuals. Kinesthetics has nothing to do with how well the controls of a game "feel", which is how he keeps using it.
It's literally the sensation by which bodily position, weight, muscle tension, and movement are perceived.
If game designers are using it to mean how a game feels while playing it, they couldn't be using a less appropriate word.
@noblebearaw They could say "how the game feels while playing". ;)
I've never been a fan of using big words just for the sake of using big words. I mean, I have a fairly extensive vocabulary, but throwing in terms that aren't often used, when speaking to a general audience (especially when using the same word over and over, as he does in his vids) smacks of trying to sound authoritative or intelligent. Worse when used wrong.
Not to say he isn't. His vids are excellent, and I mean no offense.
At the risk of sounding knee-jerk and reactionary, I think you might be a better games journalist than Zero Punctuation. I like that you aren't gimmicky; you have an honest, real, voice that intelligently and coherently examines the art and science of games. More people like you, please.
Imagine you are watching a Jason Borne movie, and sometimes Jason decides to drive on the pavement because pedestiens are softer than cars, and as men and women roll over his windscreen screaming in agony he talks to his female companion about how sad his past is and how he just wants to settle down. And she keeps chatting with him like nothings happening.
PLEASE get into contact with Penny-Arcade or something, I'm sure somebody would pay you to do this. It honestly reminds me of a more focused version of Extra Credits
@eelgray Yes, agreed. This guy needs seriously backing. He's got more talent than all the staff at sites like IGN or Gametrailers combined. I think it's because A) he's freaking smart and B) he's PASSIONATE about gaming.
With Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne 3 and Team Bondi's L.A. Noire you can see where Rockstar wants to spend their money. Gone is the old arcade anarchist feel of the original PC and PS2 GTAs. They want to move towards more serious gameplay and narrative. I think they're close to perfecting that.
I thought GTA 4 was fantastic when I played it. Everything about it seemed really polished. I didn't mind it straying from its principals and being a bit linear.
@QuixoticMcGee Actually San Andreas is 5, as Vice City is 4. But you shouldn't use numbers like that as they were more like GTA 3: Vice City and GTA 3: San Andreas.
This is also why people tended to like the protagonist of San Andreas more and the protagonist of Vice City even more. One was a ghetto punk fighting the power and getting rich in the process and the other was a psychopath gangster. Anarchy is practically in their blood. For Nico Belic his character seemed to be at odds with the way the game is played.
Aixrotciv 5 days ago
I disagree with you calling GTA4's open world lifeless. Agree with everything else.
Gumbo550 2 weeks ago
Fantastic video, it really helps explain the bland feeling that GTA4 can leave you with after playing it.
I'd love to see you talk about the transition of the GTA series from 3 to 4, covering not only Vice City and San Andreas, but the portable spin offs too (if you've played them). Also I'd like to know what you think about the direction Saints Row is taking in contrast to the direction of GTA4, which while silly still seems to focus too heavily on directing the player (imo).
triprotic 2 weeks ago
Vice City is by far the best GTA game.
omfgzhax 2 weeks ago in playlist Errant Signal
Rockstar should watch this. I still cannot understand how such a beautiful game bored the hell out of me. I just finished it out of a sense of "gamer´s duty". I am going to wait some time after GTA V comes out before I buy it, maybe this time they will be able to make it fun like Vice City was.
Another thing, the lack of responsiveness was frustrating... "Run, idiot, run! Now stop! Stop I SAID!! SHOOOT YOU PIECE OF CRAP!"
refriaire 2 weeks ago
The most fun I had was with friends, in free roam, putting cars on the devil's swingset.
I liked the single player, but again, it was definitely more fun causing chaos. You are very correct.
Even the stories of Vice City and San Andreas were just over-the-top and silly. I kind of hope we see more of that.
Destroyer12334 2 weeks ago
hmm i like you sir
McD419 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from Campster
Now do LA Noire.
OkayCompy 2 weeks ago
U have some valid points, but overal i have enjoyed this game because of its reallity. The game looks so good and the physics and AI of other people in the world give u the idea of being part of the GTA world. I still play this game sometimes to discover something i have never seen before, i still get to places i have never been. Thats the power is this game, and thats what knocks over your theoraticle rant. GTA4 outgrew its child status and became adult therefore there is no reason to compare.
kaasaanfiets 2 weeks ago
Thing is San Andreas and Vice City had a semi serious narative but GTA4 just went too far in the other direction
SR2 on the other hand was a better gta than gta4 so make of that what you will
kea919306 1 month ago in playlist Errant Signal
You bring up a lot of good criticism, but as a relatively new player to the Grand Theft Auto franchise, I didn't miss the older, chaotic mechanics that much. I found the narrative engrossing, and I don't believe the irony of Niko's actions vs. his stated objectives is lost on the writers - rather, I think it's "the point," in as much as there is one, and some characters openly comment on it.
Regardless of its mechanical flaws, I believe that, for those reasons, it is a *very* important game.
Brainninja12 1 month ago
@Brainninja12
I agree. I see Campster's criticism and can't really say anything against it other than that I really, really enjoyed GTAIV and played through it about 5 times. This is the game I spent the most time with and had the most fun+immersion of the whole current generation. There are flaws, obvious flaws, but some things have been done right, very right. I loved it.
KMaker 2 weeks ago
Subbed. Awesome show you've got going here. Keep up the good work!
ceson 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I need to comment, like so many did before me. Good videos. They have what most (99.9% really) of so called video game critics (and their lousy "reviews") lack. Namely, real criticism. You actually seem to know a thing or two about game design which is reflected in your reflections on uh... you know...
smek2 1 month ago
I can't believe how bad the missions are. You spend five minutes driving to a destination, shoot someone and drive back. But 50 yards from the start of the mission which you drove to, you get a phone call for the real mission you wanted to try which is on the other side of town in which you just came from. The characters and dialog are incredibly stupid like all GTA games. I took Kate and Michelle on lots of date only to learn that there is no point, no abilities unlocked. Fuck this game.
gyounghova 1 month ago
most fun i had was on GTA4 was on the multiplayer , acctualy , thats shitz Funneh yo! :p
sander4211 1 month ago
OH SHIT!
Flashswifts 1 month ago in playlist More videos from Campster
BEAR WINS.
TranquilFury1993 1 month ago 5
TIL Rickey Gervais was a voice actor in GTA IV.
THEdrumjunkie15 1 month ago
i had yet to play this game, but I like it already. Why?
Carmaggedon. Nuff said.
Ultrapyre 1 month ago
Comment removed
slipperywhenwet5 1 month ago in playlist More videos from Campster
congrats man ...keep up the good work ...greetings from colombia!!!
jbolivar07 1 month ago
I really didn't care for Niko's story, but I enjoyed just about everything else with GTA IV. The silly commercials, shows, radio stations, all that stuff. And I think in order to avoid lengthy driving for those that don't like it, they should just make a fast travel system. Taxis are good for skipping to the destination, but shouldn't be the only option.
HurricaneAndrew1988 1 month ago
Just saying, I love GTA4 and none of its flaws prevented me from enjoying it. I actually fucked around with a friend on co-op for about 3 hours earlier today and it was incredibly fun.
GiantDoucheNG 1 month ago
@GiantDoucheNG really, agreed.
kareeji 1 month ago
just cause 2 > gta 4 ^^
xGKxaliasxMex 1 month ago
I've always thought of GTA IV as Rockstar's Journeyman-piece. They decided to focus more on deep story-telling than mayhem-causing. To some degree they succeeded: the story is, at parts, awkward and hammy, but the characters can be deep and engaging, and seeing the story through to the end results in a satisfying (if depressing) conclusion.
It wasn't until Red Dead Redemption that they would achieve a Masterpiece. I was left in awe of the impact that the story and characters had on me.
Scorpio3002 1 month ago
Please continue with conflict of Women and gay people in GTA 4.
HLGAM3R 1 month ago
Bear wins!
Oh shi-...
forumrabbit 1 month ago 2
@forumrabbit Best part of the video, easily. :D
noblebearaw 1 month ago
Liked and subscribed. Came here on mention from Shamus Young, and I'm glad to say I've found another dude that can talk about a game just as intelligently. :P
SecretSm0ke 1 month ago 2
Excellent work! I really enjoyed this, and I'm looking forward to more. I was directed here from Twenty Sided, and I hope that nod gets you more views -- you certainly deserve them!
DaveMcMillen 1 month ago
I want to agree with you but I ultimately can't. I can appreciate why its narrative was shit, but the core gameplay was a flawed concept. Having to take a Dramamine before I fire up the console then having no reference for why I just missed a jump or how close I was or couldn't grab a ledge or you name it.
It is bullshit to frustrate players and to shoe horn every new game into some version of an fps.
noblebearaw 1 month ago in playlist More videos from Campster
@noblebearaw Wrong review mate.
forumrabbit 1 month ago
@forumrabbit D'oh! I wasn't paying attention when the playlist switched videos. My bad.
noblebearaw 1 month ago
I'm a fan of these videos (watched four so far since Twenty Sided sent me here an hour ago), but this guy likes the word "kinesthetically" too much.
I'm not even sure he's using it properly. It's actually one of our senses (no, we don't have just five!). It's the one that lets us sense the position of our body in space and how it's moving. Sensing where my elbow is has nothing to do with gaming.
thebigJ1er 1 month ago in playlist Errant Signal
@thebigJ1er Yeah, Kinesthetics is more or less a synonym for proprioception. The word "Kinaesthetics" has been co-opted and, admittedly, mangled by game developers to mean (in very broad terms) the "feel" of a game. It's shorthand, in this case, for virtual proprioception (see Steve Swink's book "Game Feel")
JunkerJames 1 month ago in playlist Errant Signal
@JunkerJames If that's how they're using it, they should stop. That's not even close to its definition.
thebigJ1er 1 month ago
@thebigJ1er :( But I started a blog and everything!
JunkerJames 1 month ago
@JunkerJames pshh. Everyone who's anyone has a blog. Start a vlog, then I'll be impressed! ;)
thebigJ1er 1 month ago
@thebigJ1er Shamus sent me her also. :)
I don't mind his use of "kinesthetically" when he talks about how intuitive the controls are. I'd be like if he used aesthetics to talk about how good the graphics looked, which is just as valid. I'd argue that its use here works because, at least in a third person game, you have a sense of where in space the totality of your character is.
noblebearaw 1 month ago
@noblebearaw Well, no. Aesthetics has to do with how something looks artistically, which applies directly to a game's visuals. Kinesthetics has nothing to do with how well the controls of a game "feel", which is how he keeps using it.
It's literally the sensation by which bodily position, weight, muscle tension, and movement are perceived.
If game designers are using it to mean how a game feels while playing it, they couldn't be using a less appropriate word.
thebigJ1er 1 month ago
@thebigJ1er My bad, then; I didn't understand the term as well as I thought I did.
That being the case, what would a better way to put it be?
noblebearaw 1 month ago
@noblebearaw They could say "how the game feels while playing". ;)
I've never been a fan of using big words just for the sake of using big words. I mean, I have a fairly extensive vocabulary, but throwing in terms that aren't often used, when speaking to a general audience (especially when using the same word over and over, as he does in his vids) smacks of trying to sound authoritative or intelligent. Worse when used wrong.
Not to say he isn't. His vids are excellent, and I mean no offense.
thebigJ1er 1 month ago
Not one to comment on most videos. Just got linked to you by Shamus Young over at Twenty Sided.
Really good video. Insightful, and cohesive. Hope to see alot more content from you around!
Canadish 1 month ago 4
At the risk of sounding knee-jerk and reactionary, I think you might be a better games journalist than Zero Punctuation. I like that you aren't gimmicky; you have an honest, real, voice that intelligently and coherently examines the art and science of games. More people like you, please.
CaptainMisterDoctorE 1 month ago 3
I know how to sum up the whole problem with GTA4
Imagine you are watching a Jason Borne movie, and sometimes Jason decides to drive on the pavement because pedestiens are softer than cars, and as men and women roll over his windscreen screaming in agony he talks to his female companion about how sad his past is and how he just wants to settle down. And she keeps chatting with him like nothings happening.
That's GTA4
MrCompassionate01 1 month ago 3
San Andreas never existed.
otikik 1 month ago
You are one of the few reviewers that I agree with pretty much all the time. Keep up the good work sir.
MyC001YoungHistory 1 month ago in playlist Errant Signal
I disagree, and I don't have enough characters here to explain how this game actually works so well, so I won't even bother.
Mafia200100 1 month ago
Once again you have put professional game reviewers to shame!
jackhaystead 2 months ago 54
why did you not mention the GTAs between GTA3 and GTA4 ?
phlexonance 2 months ago 2
@ScarletArchon Take a look at his bastion review.
JunkerJames 2 months ago in playlist Errant Signal
TIL RIcky Gervais is in GTA 4
mattjam3000 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Bear wins!
Hotnog123 2 months ago in playlist Errant Signal 6
Nice video, I disagreed with 90% but I find that with most good review / option videos.
flosy123 2 months ago
PLEASE get into contact with Penny-Arcade or something, I'm sure somebody would pay you to do this. It honestly reminds me of a more focused version of Extra Credits
eelgray 2 months ago 118
@eelgray Hear hear, this is quality material.
Nawyria 1 month ago
@eelgray Yes, agreed. This guy needs seriously backing. He's got more talent than all the staff at sites like IGN or Gametrailers combined. I think it's because A) he's freaking smart and B) he's PASSIONATE about gaming.
incognito84 1 month ago
Your video essays deserve a lot more views.
TheAzureSky1 2 months ago in playlist Errant Signal 3
I've never played the first GTA, but from the footage it looks like it would make me sick. When you're driving the screen is swaying so much...
HyperBitHero 2 months ago
With Red Dead Redemption, Max Payne 3 and Team Bondi's L.A. Noire you can see where Rockstar wants to spend their money. Gone is the old arcade anarchist feel of the original PC and PS2 GTAs. They want to move towards more serious gameplay and narrative. I think they're close to perfecting that.
thejobloshow 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Your videos are amazing. You go so in-depth! I for one appreciate this, thank you!
LiquidxSquid 2 months ago
I thought GTA 4 was fantastic when I played it. Everything about it seemed really polished. I didn't mind it straying from its principals and being a bit linear.
BeCreative 2 months ago
Good god im glad i found your channel, keep up the thoughtful and insightful videos :)
Jim777PS3 2 months ago
Really good Review of this game. GTA IV was really good on the technology side, but its gameplay did not stand up to its last games.
LesterMDK 2 months ago
Really nice video again! Keep up the good work!
arjanboogaart 2 months ago
I probably would've mentioned the bridge between 3 to 4 (San Andreas) because it shows how 4 moved so far to the story-driven side.
Anyways, great analysis as always! :)
QuixoticMcGee 2 months ago
@QuixoticMcGee Actually San Andreas is 5, as Vice City is 4. But you shouldn't use numbers like that as they were more like GTA 3: Vice City and GTA 3: San Andreas.
arjanboogaart 2 months ago
@arjanboogaart I meant San Andreas as the bridge from GTA 3 to GTA 4. I thought that was the most significant game between them.
QuixoticMcGee 2 months ago
I hated it as a GTA game, it lacked all of the sand box nonsense that made the older games so great.
But I loved it for its story telling, great writing, characters, and for those very serious moments of drama.
Also the theme song is great, it is definitely in my top ten for just being so good at creating an atmosphere before you even finish loading the game.
EnderDio 2 months ago