0:56 "but is that true? We only have error ridden copies of the NT documents?"
Yes. That's true. Listen to the commentator's own words.
1:06 "we now have a BETTER idea of what the original manuscripts said than ever before."
That would mean that you still don't know what the original manuscripts actually said. And why? Because the existing manuscripts disagree and you have NO originals.
Because He touched me...I am new. In a room at night ..when I cried out for truth, He answered me with pure Joy. No one can think, talk, or swear that away. I have a precious gift of faith. I know where I am going...what a gift. It's yours for the asking.
According to Ehrman, more like according to the majority of biblical scholars. He is simple one who wants the public and general believer to be aware of this.
If by some miraculous means the writers of koran, torah, talmud, bible, gita, ramayan, and vedas could be brought back to life and presented with scientific evidence on big bang and the origins of human species, they would have a heart attack to learn that human species in fact separated from chimpanzees and bonobos in ethiopia 6 million years ago; modern man evoled 250,000 years ago; some of our ancestors moved out of africa 70,000 years ago.
these writers of religious ( fictitious ) books would dare not speak a word and would wish to die right away with shame and embarrassement for telling lies to the world. Not only were they deluded, they also created deslusion for other human beings for 1000s of years by writing lies and tall tales in their fictitious books about the origins of the universe, human species, and many other subjects, and claiming their word divine.
it does not matter whether you have original text or not. what matters is what the text contains. the answer is it contains no truth at all. it is all figment of human mind. it is full of false calims, and misleading informations claimed as divine. bottom line is: religion is the garbage of human mind.
it does not matter whether you have original text or not. what matters is what the text contains. the answer is it contains no truth at all. it is all figment of human mind. it is full of false calims, and misleading informations claimed as divine. bottom line is: religion is the garbage of human mind.
it does not matter whether you have original text or not. what matters is what the text contains. the answer is it contains no truth at all. it is all figment of human mind. it is full of false calims, and misleading informations claimed as divine. bottom line is: religion is the garbage of human mind.
This just in from Fat Gay Idiot news; Doctor Bart Ehrman is using facts, derived from the earliest greek copies of the bible. Using the actual bible rather than the new cult edition of the bible, Doctor Bart Ehrman is spreading truth and this is bullshit. The christian world shouldn't have to tolerate truth or reality, we've been avoiding it and ignoring it and calling it lies for two thousand years now!
christianity the perfect religion! the fact that we have only copies of copies of copies of the original manuscripts which we have no idea and no way of knowing how accurate they are and if they correlate at all with the originals poses no problem if your faith is strong enough!
@Samura1gamer But faith is a weakness, not a virtue. Think about the definition of the word...it's the opposite of knowledge. Faith is a cancer... it will not educate, only delude. Faith based people are statistically less intelligent and more often racist.
Not only does Ehrman state that most of the errors are minor in nature, he also addresses the quantity NT documents referred to by Dr. P Meyer. The vast majority of these are from the middle ages on.
So how do copies of copies of copies get us closer the originals? For historical accuracy, you need to get closer to the original source. Not further away.
This clip is deceptive. It claims that Dr. Ehrman doesn't make it clear that most of the variants are extremely minor things like spelling errors in the Greek. That's absolutely false. Listen to some of the clips of Dr. Ehrman on this topic and he most certainly DOES make that clear. If people don't think that he's making it clear, it's because they're not listening.
I was muslim and now converted to christianity and I really wonder how can Doc Bart ehrman claims to be a scholar and could not know the answer to the historical study of the Holy Bible. I just think he had a mis use of the methods of sound accademic research and sees life in black and white and I can easily see that in his temper. I feel sorry for him though.
@mvp111MCA So do I and by the way, God Bless you in Jesus name! Isn't that always The Way It Is when it comes to people of so-called higher learning. You can have ALL the knowledge in the world but...Without Wisdom and Faith (Which go hand in hand) you are left with a Big Head, an Ego to match and NOWHERE Left to venture! Global Apostacy on the horizon? Look at the comments...Or is it already here. Wonder how many books he's managed to sell so far, using God's name to do it, no less!
@mvp111MCA read ehrmans book jesus interrupted. the only reason people are making videos like this against ehrman is because finally people, like ehrman, are willing to tell the public what all the bible scholars, priests, pastors, etc. won't tell you....the bible is just another example of a man made religion - if god(s) exists it certainly is not the one talked about in the bible or any other religion. ehrman is a threat to christianity because he exposes it for what it is. peace.
@susodino you wrong. He is causing harm to himself. Our Lord does not need anyone to defend him. We do, in fact, need Him to save us. Erhrman would not change a thing. I just feel sorry for him that he wasted such a long time in scholarship and fell victim to his misuse of historical criticism to the Holy Bible. I am not even born Christian and can easily see where it went wrong for him, you know why ? Because Lord Jesus saved me by the Holy Spirit and It Teaches me all things:) peace.
@susodino yeah most of them , he tries hard to expose discrepancies as he calls them. One thing , he does not notice is that his arguments themselves are flawed with discrepancies..As I said he fell victim to his faulty misuse of methods. too bad, some researchers are ready to sell all for a momentous reward, I mean academic career. Our universities need a return to the Spirit of things, I think.
@susodino I'm not so sure that Dr. Ehrman is as much a threat to Christianity as he is to Biblical Literalists. I get the feeling that if one isn't a biblical literalist, then Dr Ehrman need not be seen as such a great threat.
@crucisnh good point. ehrman surely is not out to try and reconvert anyone. if anything, ehrman is very careful to try and not offend anyone and is only trying to educate on the facts. but for me, his work clearly shows how the good book was contrived by man. another great thing i got out of ehrman's work was how he outlined how the bible finally came to be with the included books. ehrman talked about other books that did not make it into the bible but were used by early christians. peace
@crucisnh - Right. Because non literals make the bible or any religious book. What they want it to be. Cherry picking. Basically, making their own version of the religious doctrine.
@Rocketryman I'd say that it's more about the question of whether it should be read literally or as allegory. If you're going to be a hard core literalist, then many of the supposed prophecies don't mean a thing because they cannot be read as prophecies in any other way than allegorically. That is, Some compare Jesus to a vine. But Jesus is quite literally NOT a vine. He's only a vine in an allegorical sense. See what I mean?
@crucisnh "If you're going to be a hard core literalist, then many of the supposed prophecies don't mean a thing because they cannot be read as prophecies in any other way than allegorically. "
Correct! As they should be. But, I guess me seeing 2+2=4 as a "hard core literalist" approach.
Unless, you want to play the fantasy card.
In which case there is plenty of prophetic information in the Lord Of The Rings.
@Rocketryman R-man, you confuse me. I'm just not sure if you're a believer or not, and so I'm not exactly sure what you mean in your replies. I'm not sure if you're bring sarcastic or serious or somewhere in between.
@Rocketryman Sorry, I think that I misunderstood this comment. After reading your previous comment, I see that you appear to be a non-believer, which puts this comment in a different light.
Ummm...Actually i just got done watching Erhmans video and he CLEARLY said that almost ALL the errors, differences make no difference and are mostly spelling....but YOU need to state that the ones that remain are HUGE differences !!...so yeah this video is B.S.
Shittyanity whoops I mean Christianity is a FALSE religion. They believe that God became a man. In other words, they're telling me that God died, God had a mother, God came out of her vagina, God suckled her breasts, God had private organs and was circumcised and so on. Just what kind of God is this? We all have a brain don't we?
haaaaaaahahahahaha LOOOL!!!!!!!! ;)))) ;)))))) :DDD yeah I know haaaaaahahahahahaah
-_- haaaaahahaha man I can't stop laughing haaaaaaahahahah Christianity is FALSE!
Again, this host said nothing about bart ehrmans thesis which is that we dont have originals. NO ORIGINALS TO COMPARE = NO ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY!! Hakim's Razor...Is it human to make mistakes in manuscripts over the past 2000 years?...YES. Did god inspire scripture or simply man wrote for propaganda? Simple common sense goes along way. GO BART!!!
99% variations in the manuscripts maybe simple spelling issues which has no bearing. The 1% remaining may not affect the central truths, BUT I only need less than 1% that's NOT truth to persuade me that christianity is BS.
This Bible fundamentalists are an embarrassment. Their arguments "quantity means better understanding" and "most copying problems aren't big problems" (which is the basis to the Erhman argument) are silly, at least to defend a textual approach to ancient scripture.
After laying false accusations at Dr. Erhman, and using his own premises to refute what they claim to be his central points, the speaker gives 1/2 of a sentence to those descrepencies which Dr. Erhman refer to as 'theologicaly significant'. However, the speaker does not address them, he only says that they hold no inportance. If, however, you were to read Dr. Erhman's book, you would find a small number of examples which do in fact have a significant effect upon subjects such as Chrstology.
Pipermac is correct. Dr. Erhman has been very open about the nature of the discrepencies in our Greek sources.
Additionally, Dr. Meyer uses poor form in his response. While it is true that we are "getting a better and better reading" of the original text, this does not address his critique of Erhman. In fact Dr. Erhman says the same thing, and he explains that reason is because of the plethora of sources which can now be compared, by which the errors are weeded out.
just get away with it. I don't see atheist running around committing all kinds of crimes. So keep running around without considering what other people have to say while slandering their position. And you can keep trying to put words in other people's mouth's, and lie about what other's say and claim. Your not getting away with anything, and you look incredibly retarded. If jesus were to come back today he would kill himself after seeing how his followers raped and plundered the world in his name
You christians say that if you don't believe in God, then there is no such thing as morality, and that you can just do horrible things to other people with no worries. Bullshit, I never once heard an atheist make this claim, ONLY YOU. Face it christians who hold to this, your the ones spewing it, your the ones who show signs of believing in that system if there is no God, so it's YOU christians who are that immoral, not the atheist! You have it in your heart to do wicked if you could just get
Really pathetic considering that this is coming from a group of people that hound other's that if they ever told a "lie" they are gonna burn in eternal tormenting hellfire. But I guess as long as your a believer in jesus you can sin and lie all the day long with no worries. hypocrite's, liar's, two faced coward's! You try to slander people for not believing in your lie's, and unlike you moron's we actually heard Ehrman say what you claim he never say's. You should be ashamed of yourselves
What a load of slanderous garbage. They obviously either never read one of his book's, or never watched one of his video presentation's, which you can easily find on youtube. Ehrman directly admits that most of the manuscript difference's are simply spelling error's. But besides those there are major contradiction's of the like that both concept's (or more) can not be true at the same time.Since christians can't even define what atheism truely is, I highly doubt that this is all in ignorance.
How long are they going to keep trotting out the same old line. Anyone who knows anything about textual criticism knows that most of the errors are spelling errors. It still illustrates that God has not magically kept scribes from copying down the wrong thing. Note, they don't claim that 100% are trivial errors. Some of the errors are huge. Most famously, the adulteress story in John and the explicit reference to the Trinity in 1 John.
The Islamic sites here on Utube think Erhman is correct. They say the Bible is corrupted and should be thrown out for the Qu'ran because the Qu'ran is perfect. I even heard the comment that someone wrote concerning Erhman would be a great addition to them by becoming a Muslim convert.
@TheLionessjudah I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Bible should be thrown out. Although I believe the Qur'an is perfect, and the Bible is not, I see no reason to get rid of the Bible.
@the0real0realitykid Because without the Bible, or Word of Yahweh to kick around, the Qu'ran would actually be criticized alone after the same people like Erhman and moslem scholars start to probe the details, instead of the grammatically correct usage. Let me tell you when the Qu'ran is translated into other languages, the words slip off the page, its sounds strange. Then the muslims tell you that it has to be read in Arabic, apply the same principle to the Bible and use Faith.
This is so typical of how religious institution work. If Bart Ehrman wrote something where he states this and that, why not then instruct your viewers to go and read what he wrote for themselves and get the whole picture, and come to that conclusion of 99% and that 1% of real differences which is 4000 (to me it seems quite a big number). Instead one should assume that digested truth coming from their mouth should be satisfactory for the chicks!
If you guys want to know what Erhman actually has to say, watch this 10 part lecture he gave. He straight up says that most of the errors are insignificant. He does expose the important errors....things that people most likely purposely added or changed in the scriptures. He isn't trying to hide anything or persuade you what to believe, he is straight to the facts in these videos. Part 1- watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo&feature=channel_video_title
What are they talking about? Listen to what they say here...They used to have 6 texts that differ, then 3000, now 5,000+, but it all makes so much more sense.....in English. Because God knew 'everyone' would be speaking English. You can believe the NT and find TRUE Christianity...in English. If this is all they have against Ehrman, stick a fork in them, they're done.
Obviously these people just want believers to dismiss what Bart Ehrman is saying because they know it is causing a problem for them if they don't. Not because what Ehrman is saying isn't true or anything.
"Scholars" are forgetting something. Nobody was following Jesus around with a notepad taking dictation. The earliest Gospel, the book of Mark, was written about a generation after Jesus preached his ministry. Can you recall, verbatim, what someone said 30 years ago?
Here is yet another example of defensive fundygelicals who go on the attack with having thoroughly read Ehrman's books. Erhman is not concerned about the smaller scribal inconsistencies, but rather some of the major issues such as the last 16 verses of the Gospel of Mark, and the Johannine Comma of I John 5:7-8, which includes an additional verse that was never in the earlier Greek Manuscripts. That additional verse is verse 7
This video is extremely misleading. It seem to do all the things it attacks Ehrman for. These people misrepresent his views and nit pick about very minor things. As usual, if you want the truth, listen to Ehrman himself - listen for yourself with an open mind.
Disingenuous. You are the one nitpicking. Erhman is candid and open in his statements on the bible. People should know how the bible was put together and who and how its parts were assembled. Your position is not based on an objective assessment of the evidence but rather you religious beliefs.
@SuperSkepticman No, you are confusing yourself. I refer you to my reference to a court room. Reconciling different, good faith, testimonies is a part of every day life. It does not make all witnesses liars or fantasists because they recall different things. The fact is there are no 'apparent' contradictions in the Gospel accounts which cannot be easily reconciled.
There is no new gospel, simply a consensus view, from different view points.
@MrWildbill20056 How many different points of view does God have? Who wrote the bible? God? Man? (BTW: this comment was divinely inspired - If you don't like it, blame God.)
Ya but what is the oldest text they have found??? Anything from Jesus' time? NO and no history writers include any facts about Jesus in the ancient writings.
@SuperSkepticman You really shouldn't promote such absolute nonsense. You are clearly confusing easily reconcilable differences in account with actual contradition. If each account was identical that would massively suspicious! It simply isn't how human beings operate. Go sit in your local court any day of the week and watch perfectly rational people give different accounts of events they personally witnessed.
How can anyone say that we have better understanding of what the originals said than ever before if we don't have the originals to compare our understanding to? If we don't have the originals, and we don't, then we do not know what the originals actually said and therefore we can get no true understanding of what they said leaving us with nothing but corrupt manuscripts and corrupt Bibles.
That's basically what "Misquoting Jesus" is about: how scholars derive what was most likely said (and how the bible has been including these mistranslations for hundreds of years). It's pretty interesting how they analyze the text, but what the guy said about having a better understanding of the originals is true.
That's basically what "Misquoting Jesus" is about: how scholars derive what was most likely said (and how the bible has been including these mistranslations for hundreds of years). It's pretty interesting how they analyze the text, but what the guy said about having a better understanding of the originals is true.
@the0real0realitykid The answer: Because the scholars who do textual criticism know what they are doing. Get a clue -- and you will understand. (Education is a wonderful thing. Check it out.)
@the0real0realitykid people were sayin that with more power behind it about 60 yrs ago. then the dead sea scrolls were discovered wich jumped us back another 600 yrs closer to the time of christ. and everything was exact except some small errors suchh as in english they put the instead of an. small scribal errors with all theology remaining intace. in fact they froze a new translation that was being done. after reading the scrolls they told them to go ahead. no changes
@the0real0realitykid - And to go one step further. That "better understanding" that might be out there is going to contradict what we currently know. Since, what we currently know is somewhat fabricated.
Have these Guys ever read Erhman's Books? He acknowledges everything that they are saying. He openely admits that most of the errors are spellling and such. These are the people that are misleading their readers/viewers, not Ehrman
@ThePipermac agree. Many people who deconvert from christianity do it not because any argument or evidence, but because they see the hypocrisy, dishonesty and desperate attempts of fundamentalists and apologists to impede the advance of knowledge to keep their dogmas withstanding. I think they apologist and fundamentalist 'scholar' doesnt even realize of it. the objectivity of their minds has been corrupted by decades of confirmational bias.
Abviously only the christians who want to believe the bible is somehow authentic/true gave you thums up ..truth is that what Dr Ehrman says is that the bible is full of serious errors and lies..not just simple spelling errors as you claim ..it is a seriously corrupt book and was written by men, one of whom was a criminal who handed over good christians to the Romans to get killed ... the bible is a serious joke and only fools and dreamers believe it is the word of God .
@ThePipermac Did Ehrman also acknowledge that the Bible is the only book that contains literally over a hundred fulfilled prophecies which God obviously preserved for us today?
@Rocketryman That's right, over a hundred fulfilled prophecies and many of them were predicted hundreds of years prior to the fulfillment. I suggest u start ur research before judging a book from ur hatred and bias
@chillzz25 - No hatred friend. That is part of your delusion.
As far as judging a book. 30 years as a christian has shown me the light. That being...
There is none. But one day, when you get past your ego and are honest with yourself. You will apologize (to your friends and family) for your "hatred and bias."
@Rocketryman 30 years and u are unaware of all the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible? And i have no problem with my ego or myself, only with ur ignorance regarding Bible prophecies. But i don't expect anything different from a atheist. And i don't have to apologize to my family because they are Bible believing Christians aswell u dick
@chillzz25 Honestly, I don't think that prophesies are worth the papyrus they're printed on. You can write up thousands of supposed allegorical prophesies, and a few hundred or thousand years later, I expect that someone will be able to argue that many of them will have come true. It's just a bunch of baloney.
@crucisnh ofcourse, everything to u atheists is baloney because it doesnt fit in ur worldview.
History is apparently also baloney to u. Everything in the Bible must be made up by a few people who one day decided to be creative right? Atheists who have this view make me laugh
Im not sure where these people got their information but what they are saying about Dr Erhman omitting certain things he teaches (most of the mistakes in the bible being irrelevant for example) is completely false. He ALWAYS points these things out so I have to conclude that this video is very lazy research or deliberate lies to discredit him.
If God wanted to write a book wouldn't it be interesting. I mean, c'mon, Doestoevsky is more interesting then most of the Bible. And the irony is most christians, or at least christians I know don't really read the bible anyway. They might go through some passages on sunday during church but they just don't have the time or the patience to read it.
Did I read the same book they are talking about? Or watch the same clips of Ehrman speaking? Maybe you people should learn to discern truth from lies. Ehrman clearly states that mistakes range from minor grammatical errors to entire 'chunks' of scripture being added/removed. He also goes on to give examples of such errors. Where are your examples? Where are your facts and evidence. I discern an agenda here...
This video is incorrect! There are major differences between the ancient Gospel records .E.g. my NIV Bible has the following gloss on John chapters 7-8 (re. the adulterous woman): "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts do not have John 7:53 to 8:11". So, about 15 verses are missing from the earliest! Likewise, the last 15 verses of Mark are absent in the earliest manuscripts.
And of course, we have no knowledge about the Gospel writers. Indeed, the Gospels were penned anonymously.
On top of the 5000+ copies of the new testament we also have hundreds of commentary on the bible written by various authors from at least the 2nd century; people such as Irenaeus, Origen, Augustine, etc. So this kind of nonsense is just another shallow attempt to try to delegitimize Christianity without facing it head on.
@dannywizz It's funny to see how protestants say they are not of any denomination because it's such a shame to know that your believes didn't exist until 500 years ago. I know what you believe, you believe that bible is the core. NT that was composed around 350 A.D and the OT that was altered by Luther himeslf!
"Early christian" of the 16'th century, yeah.
Early christians didn't even have the Bible so they couldn't have practices with it. Majority of them couldn't even read anyway...
@dannywizz Yep, here we go again. What do you mean by "bible is true"? Do you mean text of it is true in it's literal interpretation? So, did Jesus died before the passover meal, as in Luke or after the meal, as in John? Was he crussified both times, if both accounts are true?
Who told you all message is the book, namely in the one main part of wich was composed 300 years after death of Jesus? Your pastor or parents probably did. Putting a message into a book when majority is illiterate, that's one wise god. And you who belive it call me an idiot. I just wonder, haven't you had just a little thought about how all-migthy God put everything into one book in Greek, language of the elite, but did not do anything else for ordinary good people to belive in him?
THE FACT THAT THERE IS ANY ERRORS AT ALL WILL TELL YOU THAT THE BIBLE IS NO LONGER THE ALMIGHTY'S WORD AND THAT MAN HAS LEFT HIS FINGER PRINTS ON IT. ALLAH IS FREE OF ERRORS AND MAY ALLAH PUNISH THOSE WHO THINK OTHERWISE.
@nasr313 haha the amount of times the koran/quran has been changed due to its violence is amazing not to mention there is no evidence for early islam your book has many errors and no not misunderstandings actual errors just addmit to your self mohammed was going in the the caves and he became possessed he even wanted to kill him self he was so confused islam is the devils best played trick your allah will never punish me cause he is a pagan god sorry friend
Fact... Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox etc uses different books already. There are 8 books or something in contest and you can believe whichever you like, it does not change the main message.
Fact, yes the Catholic Priests tried to change the bible around 350A.D. This does not mean they succeeded.
Fact they tried to kill all Christians before they decided to build the catholic church.
If you believe in an all powerful God you can be pretty sure he gets his message through.
From what i can recall, Bart Ehrman clearly points out that many of the thousands of textural errors ARE tiny and in many ways insignificant. I find him very accessable and easy to understand unlike many christian apologists.
I'm so tired of hearing American people trying to be experts at linguistics when they really only speak one language while other countries speak at least 2-3 languages.
Bart Ehrman is nothing but an attention seeker. He wants to get noticed!
1. The Kings James bible is not the translation everyone uses. The bible in other languages has often been translated from other bibles and Greek manuscripts.
2. Something you cant clearly define in English from Greek you can define in other languages.
@dannywizz He continues to say that he wants to be noticed again and again.
I'm Russian, and we use our own translation from Greek. But did you know Greek manuscripts were altered? Gospel of John probably did not contain story about woman accused of adultery. Do you know that? I didn't. And that all gospels were anonymous and not claim to be written by disciples and that names were added later to them. And that stories found in different gospels don't add up. No one bothered telling me this.
But the main idea of Ehrman's books is that different gospels portray story of Jesus very differently. I didn't notice that before i got this idea from Ehrman. Then i started to understand better what gospels really say. If you think scripture just retells you what your priest have already told you and you ignore inconsistencies which appear while reading then you are misreading the scripture!
If you read gospel of Luke with the idea that Jesus said he was a son of God then you misread it.
@MegaVldmr If you truly believe Ehrmans claims then you ought to know the 80/20 principle. It really does not matter if Ehrman is right or wrong for you believing in that Jesus was the son of God or not. If 20% of the book is true then 80 % of the message is still there. Do you believe the main message?
The problem with Ehrmans claim are that they are just minor things in the bible.
If you are schooled in the bible then you know that Jesus is mentioned in every book in the bible.
@dannywizz Again, if you have read Ehrman's books you would probably understand the problem. why we have 27 books in NT? why not 20? Why not 35? There were over 50 gospels when bible was made around 350 A.D., why we have only chosen 4? What is "the main message" one should belive? Different people have different views of what the main message was. I've been raised in ortodox christian envorement so i've been led to belive certan things about message of Jesus. Gnostic christians think differently
@dannywizz Besides, Ehrman claims that originals of gospels do not contain the consistent historical/bibliographical data. This can mean that 80% is true or 30% is true or that 5% is true. But it's surely not 0% that is true because it the story was completely fictional then authors would not have a problem making it consistent, and it's not. Honestly, i don't trust John now. He claims to know so much why Jesus died but he wrote it 60 years after the event and he puts stuff Jesus never said.
@dannywizz 1. If you are a protestant then you probably don't even know what "being a christian" means. I'm sorry.
2. Yes, but the problem is gospels are not historical records and you can not read them this way. They were written with different purposes, historicaly accurate depiction of the events was not one.of them. In their literal interpretations gospels contradict each other and extrabiblical sources.
5. I'm not a language geek, i don't know greek! I rely upon NSAB if i need translation
@MegaVldmr I see. I am a protestant and you are of the true faith? Yeah right. I consider myself to be a bible believer, an follower of the early christian practices. Not some ritual & costume based faith.
Why do I think Americans are bad linguistics. First of the American English is not based on grammatical laws like Real British English is.
Ex. John.. A God, One God or The God...It says "GodOne" if you read it in greek, In swedish it would be "Guden". As a Swede I know how to read this.
Only people who didn't read Bart Ehrman's books will belive this video.
400.000 mistakes is not the his main point. It doesn't matter how many old manuscripts we have today, if majority of them have been copied from one that contained mistakes then we'll have mistakes in the Bible reguardless of number of sources. It is the earliest and most accurately copied manuscripts we have to rely upon. King James contains stuff that wasn't in the originals!
Yes, and it is another point. Pepsi Doesn't exactly mean soda, and if one man copies "soda" instead of "Pepsi", and other scribe reads "soda" and puts "Cola", next one changes "Cola" to "Coca cola". And we have manuscript that tells us different stuff, just because of baised opinions of scribes reguarding tastes of sodas.
@milkydud And it's even not the main point. Forget the spelling mistakes or changing the order of words, or changing some word to another word of close meaning. Let's concentrate on 0.1% of 400,000 "textual variants" that are other kind of textual variations. Those are forgeries and ommisions of unwanted stuff. A lot of them are in the bible that is printed today. And even that is not the main point of Ehrman's books.
Please understand, no matter what book read that has been translated multiple times has many differences excluding 0 books of antiquity. Every translator translates according to its individual understanding of a language and its intended crowd.
Many of Muhammads followers even had qurans that varied. This is why uthman organised the first official quranic text being that he was kalhifa.
No forgerys are in the nt. Again, many of the varied words are not others inserts. The inserts are the translation. A better example is noticed in some of the textorial differences with the quranic codexes. Uthman uses Allah instead of He more often when compared to taniskin *i can't spell well* quran. Is that a difference you consider when comparing the nt to the quran?
This is y you see in some of Pauls letters saying "they murdered/killed Jesus".
Yes, The first collection of books, now called the Bible was first written in Greek. Thus tarnishing the Bible with Hellenistic shades and hue. It might then, without doubt, follow that ancient Greek is also required to place the words in the Bible correctly. Thank you, Sir.
Bring your best christian apologist and debate Bart, and we'll decide who is telling the truth and knows their shit. I saw Bart absolutely own William Lane Craig!
All bible readers should undertake at least a basic course in Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, and a course in Judaic culture, to understand what Jesus said. Many christians understand and give meaning to the words spoke by Jesus in the context of one's own culture, and not in the context of Jesus's times and culture. Though this does not intrisically harm anyone, it is just not the right thing to do. It is a corruption of the scripture. Jesus was certainly not American Evangelists?
@vailixi9 They also might want to learn Greek, which was the language the NT was written in (not Aramaic).
Nothing in this video even touches on Ehrman's main arguments against the validity of the NT.
Perhaps Christians ought to actually read his books and see his evidence (evidence supported by the vast majority of biblical scholars) rather than listening to 3:41 of propaganda from those likely to lose their money and power should the truth be known.
" He claims that we now have a BETTER IDEA WHAT THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT SAID THAN EVER BEFORE"
what does that mean, does that mean you have the original? I dont think so. So the refutation of the people in the video against Bart Ehman is a desperate attempt.
This is an absolute missrepresentation of ehrmans sayings. Ehrman makes clear in his lectures and his writings, that the vast majority of the errors in the manuscripts are absolutly unimportant and don't matter for a thing. His argument is among others, that a change of one word in a big passage can indeed change the meaning of a text. Just put a "not" in a text at the right place and you have a change of the meaning.
@balouthewatz Moreover, the speaker in the video, in trying to refute Bart Ehrman's saying that the original copy is nonexistent, he ended up admitting that what Erhman said is in fact true. " He claims that we now have a BETTER IDEA WHAT THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT SAID THAN EVER BEFORE"
tHat simply means that BArt Ehrman's saying is true that there no original text available.
0:56 "but is that true? We only have error ridden copies of the NT documents?"
Yes. That's true. Listen to the commentator's own words.
1:06 "we now have a BETTER idea of what the original manuscripts said than ever before."
That would mean that you still don't know what the original manuscripts actually said. And why? Because the existing manuscripts disagree and you have NO originals.
Christian deceivers.
HellRehab 6 days ago
Lol what.
VoidOnTuesday 1 week ago
Mislead PMSL ... Lord Ehrman is the glorified GOD himself,
he showed the imposter Jesus for what he really was ...
wakeup fools
paltalkx 2 weeks ago
Ehrman is much more of a showman than a sincere scholar.
The sophisticated know this.
Christlovesanimals 2 weeks ago
Because He touched me...I am new. In a room at night ..when I cried out for truth, He answered me with pure Joy. No one can think, talk, or swear that away. I have a precious gift of faith. I know where I am going...what a gift. It's yours for the asking.
LisaAnthonyisHis 2 weeks ago
So.................these guys basically admit that Ehrman is correct?
In a weird, convoluted way, of course.
harpo103 2 weeks ago
According to Ehrman, more like according to the majority of biblical scholars. He is simple one who wants the public and general believer to be aware of this.
DeconversionCentral 2 weeks ago
LIES, THE FOUNDERS OF RELIGIONS TOLD TO MANKIND:
If by some miraculous means the writers of koran, torah, talmud, bible, gita, ramayan, and vedas could be brought back to life and presented with scientific evidence on big bang and the origins of human species, they would have a heart attack to learn that human species in fact separated from chimpanzees and bonobos in ethiopia 6 million years ago; modern man evoled 250,000 years ago; some of our ancestors moved out of africa 70,000 years ago.
zulfitareen 2 weeks ago
these writers of religious ( fictitious ) books would dare not speak a word and would wish to die right away with shame and embarrassement for telling lies to the world. Not only were they deluded, they also created deslusion for other human beings for 1000s of years by writing lies and tall tales in their fictitious books about the origins of the universe, human species, and many other subjects, and claiming their word divine.
think critically,
zulfitareen 2 weeks ago
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zulfitareen 2 weeks ago
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zulfitareen 2 weeks ago
zulfitareen 2 weeks ago
This just in from Fat Gay Idiot news; Doctor Bart Ehrman is using facts, derived from the earliest greek copies of the bible. Using the actual bible rather than the new cult edition of the bible, Doctor Bart Ehrman is spreading truth and this is bullshit. The christian world shouldn't have to tolerate truth or reality, we've been avoiding it and ignoring it and calling it lies for two thousand years now!
AMpufnstuf 3 weeks ago
christianity the perfect religion! the fact that we have only copies of copies of copies of the original manuscripts which we have no idea and no way of knowing how accurate they are and if they correlate at all with the originals poses no problem if your faith is strong enough!
Samura1gamer 3 weeks ago
@Samura1gamer But faith is a weakness, not a virtue. Think about the definition of the word...it's the opposite of knowledge. Faith is a cancer... it will not educate, only delude. Faith based people are statistically less intelligent and more often racist.
AMpufnstuf 3 weeks ago
@AMpufnstuf ok.now explain to me how the hell u didn't understand that i was trolling
Samura1gamer 3 weeks ago
@Samura1gamer Trolling is a stupid word but I was replying to the subject not your comment so call it what you'd like
AMpufnstuf 3 weeks ago
Not only does Ehrman state that most of the errors are minor in nature, he also addresses the quantity NT documents referred to by Dr. P Meyer. The vast majority of these are from the middle ages on.
So how do copies of copies of copies get us closer the originals? For historical accuracy, you need to get closer to the original source. Not further away.
Nosey71 4 weeks ago
This clip is deceptive. It claims that Dr. Ehrman doesn't make it clear that most of the variants are extremely minor things like spelling errors in the Greek. That's absolutely false. Listen to some of the clips of Dr. Ehrman on this topic and he most certainly DOES make that clear. If people don't think that he's making it clear, it's because they're not listening.
crucisnh 1 month ago
I was muslim and now converted to christianity and I really wonder how can Doc Bart ehrman claims to be a scholar and could not know the answer to the historical study of the Holy Bible. I just think he had a mis use of the methods of sound accademic research and sees life in black and white and I can easily see that in his temper. I feel sorry for him though.
mvp111MCA 1 month ago
@mvp111MCA So do I and by the way, God Bless you in Jesus name! Isn't that always The Way It Is when it comes to people of so-called higher learning. You can have ALL the knowledge in the world but...Without Wisdom and Faith (Which go hand in hand) you are left with a Big Head, an Ego to match and NOWHERE Left to venture! Global Apostacy on the horizon? Look at the comments...Or is it already here. Wonder how many books he's managed to sell so far, using God's name to do it, no less!
ucancallmebaby1 1 month ago 2
@mvp111MCA read ehrmans book jesus interrupted. the only reason people are making videos like this against ehrman is because finally people, like ehrman, are willing to tell the public what all the bible scholars, priests, pastors, etc. won't tell you....the bible is just another example of a man made religion - if god(s) exists it certainly is not the one talked about in the bible or any other religion. ehrman is a threat to christianity because he exposes it for what it is. peace.
susodino 1 month ago
@susodino you wrong. He is causing harm to himself. Our Lord does not need anyone to defend him. We do, in fact, need Him to save us. Erhrman would not change a thing. I just feel sorry for him that he wasted such a long time in scholarship and fell victim to his misuse of historical criticism to the Holy Bible. I am not even born Christian and can easily see where it went wrong for him, you know why ? Because Lord Jesus saved me by the Holy Spirit and It Teaches me all things:) peace.
mvp111MCA 1 month ago
@mvp111MCA did you read his book?
susodino 1 month ago
@susodino yeah most of them , he tries hard to expose discrepancies as he calls them. One thing , he does not notice is that his arguments themselves are flawed with discrepancies..As I said he fell victim to his faulty misuse of methods. too bad, some researchers are ready to sell all for a momentous reward, I mean academic career. Our universities need a return to the Spirit of things, I think.
mvp111MCA 1 month ago
@susodino I'm not so sure that Dr. Ehrman is as much a threat to Christianity as he is to Biblical Literalists. I get the feeling that if one isn't a biblical literalist, then Dr Ehrman need not be seen as such a great threat.
crucisnh 1 month ago
@crucisnh good point. ehrman surely is not out to try and reconvert anyone. if anything, ehrman is very careful to try and not offend anyone and is only trying to educate on the facts. but for me, his work clearly shows how the good book was contrived by man. another great thing i got out of ehrman's work was how he outlined how the bible finally came to be with the included books. ehrman talked about other books that did not make it into the bible but were used by early christians. peace
susodino 1 month ago
@crucisnh - Right. Because non literals make the bible or any religious book. What they want it to be. Cherry picking. Basically, making their own version of the religious doctrine.
Rocketryman 4 weeks ago
@Rocketryman I'd say that it's more about the question of whether it should be read literally or as allegory. If you're going to be a hard core literalist, then many of the supposed prophecies don't mean a thing because they cannot be read as prophecies in any other way than allegorically. That is, Some compare Jesus to a vine. But Jesus is quite literally NOT a vine. He's only a vine in an allegorical sense. See what I mean?
crucisnh 4 weeks ago
@crucisnh "If you're going to be a hard core literalist, then many of the supposed prophecies don't mean a thing because they cannot be read as prophecies in any other way than allegorically. "
Correct! As they should be. But, I guess me seeing 2+2=4 as a "hard core literalist" approach.
Unless, you want to play the fantasy card.
In which case there is plenty of prophetic information in the Lord Of The Rings.
Rocketryman 3 weeks ago
@Rocketryman R-man, you confuse me. I'm just not sure if you're a believer or not, and so I'm not exactly sure what you mean in your replies. I'm not sure if you're bring sarcastic or serious or somewhere in between.
crucisnh 3 weeks ago
@Rocketryman Sorry, I think that I misunderstood this comment. After reading your previous comment, I see that you appear to be a non-believer, which puts this comment in a different light.
crucisnh 4 weeks ago
@mvp111MCA
religion
is
the
garbage
of
human mind.
zulfitareen 2 weeks ago
Ummm...Actually i just got done watching Erhmans video and he CLEARLY said that almost ALL the errors, differences make no difference and are mostly spelling....but YOU need to state that the ones that remain are HUGE differences !!...so yeah this video is B.S.
Gnosis559 1 month ago
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Shittyanity whoops I mean Christianity is a FALSE religion. They believe that God became a man. In other words, they're telling me that God died, God had a mother, God came out of her vagina, God suckled her breasts, God had private organs and was circumcised and so on. Just what kind of God is this? We all have a brain don't we?
haaaaaaahahahahaha LOOOL!!!!!!!! ;)))) ;)))))) :DDD yeah I know haaaaaahahahahahaah
-_- haaaaahahaha man I can't stop laughing haaaaaaahahahah Christianity is FALSE!
ExtremeEnergyForce 1 month ago
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ExtremeEnergyForce 1 month ago
~ most of those adults would've been better equipped to deal with reality if they hadn't been brainwashed as children
a0eoj 1 month ago
Christianity is just a fairytale for stupid adults who can't deal with reality :/
a0eoj 1 month ago
I agree with Bart Ehrman 100%. I am not a christian but the most annoying thing for me is to listen athiests who sound brainwashed.
MrTomkins10 1 month ago
Ehrman only passes on scholarly material to regular folks.
harpo103 1 month ago
The christians are going down swinging.
kipsdaddy 1 month ago
@kipsdaddy No baby, we are going UP!... up Baby up! =)
ucancallmebaby1 1 month ago
@kipsdaddy what does that mean?
susodino 1 month ago
Again, this host said nothing about bart ehrmans thesis which is that we dont have originals. NO ORIGINALS TO COMPARE = NO ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY!! Hakim's Razor...Is it human to make mistakes in manuscripts over the past 2000 years?...YES. Did god inspire scripture or simply man wrote for propaganda? Simple common sense goes along way. GO BART!!!
1122stardust 1 month ago
99% variations in the manuscripts maybe simple spelling issues which has no bearing. The 1% remaining may not affect the central truths, BUT I only need less than 1% that's NOT truth to persuade me that christianity is BS.
99minerkc 2 months ago
This Bible fundamentalists are an embarrassment. Their arguments "quantity means better understanding" and "most copying problems aren't big problems" (which is the basis to the Erhman argument) are silly, at least to defend a textual approach to ancient scripture.
code933k 2 months ago
After laying false accusations at Dr. Erhman, and using his own premises to refute what they claim to be his central points, the speaker gives 1/2 of a sentence to those descrepencies which Dr. Erhman refer to as 'theologicaly significant'. However, the speaker does not address them, he only says that they hold no inportance. If, however, you were to read Dr. Erhman's book, you would find a small number of examples which do in fact have a significant effect upon subjects such as Chrstology.
justinrboyett 2 months ago 2
Pipermac is correct. Dr. Erhman has been very open about the nature of the discrepencies in our Greek sources.
Additionally, Dr. Meyer uses poor form in his response. While it is true that we are "getting a better and better reading" of the original text, this does not address his critique of Erhman. In fact Dr. Erhman says the same thing, and he explains that reason is because of the plethora of sources which can now be compared, by which the errors are weeded out.
justinrboyett 2 months ago
I better believe Bart Ehrman, His right, you are wrong. God never have nation, god never choose people to love. Jesus Just for Israel people.
sailor291 2 months ago
just get away with it. I don't see atheist running around committing all kinds of crimes. So keep running around without considering what other people have to say while slandering their position. And you can keep trying to put words in other people's mouth's, and lie about what other's say and claim. Your not getting away with anything, and you look incredibly retarded. If jesus were to come back today he would kill himself after seeing how his followers raped and plundered the world in his name
TorahOfMessiah613 2 months ago
@TorahOfMessiah613 THAT'S BECAUSE THERE ARE STILL WHO BELIEVE IN GOD THAT WILL STOP THEM. OTHERWISE THEY WILL DO WHATEVER THEY WANT.
1sl4mSh1t 1 month ago
You christians say that if you don't believe in God, then there is no such thing as morality, and that you can just do horrible things to other people with no worries. Bullshit, I never once heard an atheist make this claim, ONLY YOU. Face it christians who hold to this, your the ones spewing it, your the ones who show signs of believing in that system if there is no God, so it's YOU christians who are that immoral, not the atheist! You have it in your heart to do wicked if you could just get
TorahOfMessiah613 2 months ago
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@TorahOfMessiah613 "Bullshit, I never once heard an atheist make this claim"
OF COURSE THEY WON'T SAY THOSE THINGS. WHY WOULD THEY? HOW CAN THEY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO STOP BELIEVING IN GOD IF THEY WILL SHOW THEIR TRUE COLORS?
1sl4mSh1t 1 month ago
Really pathetic considering that this is coming from a group of people that hound other's that if they ever told a "lie" they are gonna burn in eternal tormenting hellfire. But I guess as long as your a believer in jesus you can sin and lie all the day long with no worries. hypocrite's, liar's, two faced coward's! You try to slander people for not believing in your lie's, and unlike you moron's we actually heard Ehrman say what you claim he never say's. You should be ashamed of yourselves
TorahOfMessiah613 2 months ago
What a load of slanderous garbage. They obviously either never read one of his book's, or never watched one of his video presentation's, which you can easily find on youtube. Ehrman directly admits that most of the manuscript difference's are simply spelling error's. But besides those there are major contradiction's of the like that both concept's (or more) can not be true at the same time.Since christians can't even define what atheism truely is, I highly doubt that this is all in ignorance.
TorahOfMessiah613 2 months ago 2
How long are they going to keep trotting out the same old line. Anyone who knows anything about textual criticism knows that most of the errors are spelling errors. It still illustrates that God has not magically kept scribes from copying down the wrong thing. Note, they don't claim that 100% are trivial errors. Some of the errors are huge. Most famously, the adulteress story in John and the explicit reference to the Trinity in 1 John.
Lets be honest with people.
TacticusPrime 2 months ago
DAMAGE CONTROL.
banestyrelsen 2 months ago
The Islamic sites here on Utube think Erhman is correct. They say the Bible is corrupted and should be thrown out for the Qu'ran because the Qu'ran is perfect. I even heard the comment that someone wrote concerning Erhman would be a great addition to them by becoming a Muslim convert.
TheLionessjudah 2 months ago
@TheLionessjudah I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Bible should be thrown out. Although I believe the Qur'an is perfect, and the Bible is not, I see no reason to get rid of the Bible.
the0real0realitykid 2 months ago
@the0real0realitykid Because without the Bible, or Word of Yahweh to kick around, the Qu'ran would actually be criticized alone after the same people like Erhman and moslem scholars start to probe the details, instead of the grammatically correct usage. Let me tell you when the Qu'ran is translated into other languages, the words slip off the page, its sounds strange. Then the muslims tell you that it has to be read in Arabic, apply the same principle to the Bible and use Faith.
TheLionessjudah 2 months ago
This is so typical of how religious institution work. If Bart Ehrman wrote something where he states this and that, why not then instruct your viewers to go and read what he wrote for themselves and get the whole picture, and come to that conclusion of 99% and that 1% of real differences which is 4000 (to me it seems quite a big number). Instead one should assume that digested truth coming from their mouth should be satisfactory for the chicks!
mirnesalic 2 months ago
Wow, the commentator sounds like a "real expert."
capoman1 3 months ago
WOW.
He glosses over the "1%" as having no bearing in a matter of seconds. An entire three minute video where no real facts are confronted.
estevancarlos 3 months ago
@estevancarlos ok man its still only a 3 minute video. What are you going to cover.
levedia 2 months ago
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I know how Bart Ehrman misleads his readers. It's called telling the truth.
strangetranceoffaith 3 months ago
If you guys want to know what Erhman actually has to say, watch this 10 part lecture he gave. He straight up says that most of the errors are insignificant. He does expose the important errors....things that people most likely purposely added or changed in the scriptures. He isn't trying to hide anything or persuade you what to believe, he is straight to the facts in these videos. Part 1- watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo&feature=channel_video_title
deathbyeteacup 3 months ago
Oh I knew the Christians would be crawling all over Bart Erhmans book. They are good at rambling.
treasuredroperX 4 months ago
What are they talking about? Listen to what they say here...They used to have 6 texts that differ, then 3000, now 5,000+, but it all makes so much more sense.....in English. Because God knew 'everyone' would be speaking English. You can believe the NT and find TRUE Christianity...in English. If this is all they have against Ehrman, stick a fork in them, they're done.
MHVK14 4 months ago
Obviously these people just want believers to dismiss what Bart Ehrman is saying because they know it is causing a problem for them if they don't. Not because what Ehrman is saying isn't true or anything.
KentonForshee 4 months ago
"Scholars" are forgetting something. Nobody was following Jesus around with a notepad taking dictation. The earliest Gospel, the book of Mark, was written about a generation after Jesus preached his ministry. Can you recall, verbatim, what someone said 30 years ago?
Maybe.
harpo103 4 months ago
@harpo103 Hardly.
LowresTV 3 months ago
Here is yet another example of defensive fundygelicals who go on the attack with having thoroughly read Ehrman's books. Erhman is not concerned about the smaller scribal inconsistencies, but rather some of the major issues such as the last 16 verses of the Gospel of Mark, and the Johannine Comma of I John 5:7-8, which includes an additional verse that was never in the earlier Greek Manuscripts. That additional verse is verse 7
sickofyou60 5 months ago
Meant to say "go on the attack without having thoroughly read Ehrman's books."
sickofyou60 5 months ago
This video is extremely misleading. It seem to do all the things it attacks Ehrman for. These people misrepresent his views and nit pick about very minor things. As usual, if you want the truth, listen to Ehrman himself - listen for yourself with an open mind.
4q1 5 months ago
Well these guys just made idiots of themselves. Try reading Ehrman's books next time.
jbass02 5 months ago 4
Disingenuous. You are the one nitpicking. Erhman is candid and open in his statements on the bible. People should know how the bible was put together and who and how its parts were assembled. Your position is not based on an objective assessment of the evidence but rather you religious beliefs.
estragon9 6 months ago 2
@SuperSkepticman No, you are confusing yourself. I refer you to my reference to a court room. Reconciling different, good faith, testimonies is a part of every day life. It does not make all witnesses liars or fantasists because they recall different things. The fact is there are no 'apparent' contradictions in the Gospel accounts which cannot be easily reconciled.
There is no new gospel, simply a consensus view, from different view points.
MrWildbill20056 6 months ago
@MrWildbill20056 How many different points of view does God have? Who wrote the bible? God? Man? (BTW: this comment was divinely inspired - If you don't like it, blame God.)
4q1 5 months ago
@4q1 What is the point of your comment? Are you suggesting that any Christian has suggested 'God' directly wrote the Gospels? o.O
Divine Inspiration, means what it says on the tin, inspired by God. It does not mean dictated by God. To be inspired does not convey infalibility.
MrWildbill20056 5 months ago
Ya but what is the oldest text they have found??? Anything from Jesus' time? NO and no history writers include any facts about Jesus in the ancient writings.
bigjon1359 6 months ago
@SuperSkepticman You really shouldn't promote such absolute nonsense. You are clearly confusing easily reconcilable differences in account with actual contradition. If each account was identical that would massively suspicious! It simply isn't how human beings operate. Go sit in your local court any day of the week and watch perfectly rational people give different accounts of events they personally witnessed.
MrWildbill20056 6 months ago
How can anyone say that we have better understanding of what the originals said than ever before if we don't have the originals to compare our understanding to? If we don't have the originals, and we don't, then we do not know what the originals actually said and therefore we can get no true understanding of what they said leaving us with nothing but corrupt manuscripts and corrupt Bibles.
the0real0realitykid 6 months ago 22
@the0real0realitykid
That's basically what "Misquoting Jesus" is about: how scholars derive what was most likely said (and how the bible has been including these mistranslations for hundreds of years). It's pretty interesting how they analyze the text, but what the guy said about having a better understanding of the originals is true.
Scienceprevails 5 months ago
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@the0real0realitykid
That's basically what "Misquoting Jesus" is about: how scholars derive what was most likely said (and how the bible has been including these mistranslations for hundreds of years). It's pretty interesting how they analyze the text, but what the guy said about having a better understanding of the originals is true.
Scienceprevails 5 months ago
@the0real0realitykid Tehy just can't accept the truth..is all man made miths.
LowresTV 4 months ago
@the0real0realitykid The answer: Because the scholars who do textual criticism know what they are doing. Get a clue -- and you will understand. (Education is a wonderful thing. Check it out.)
verysincere 3 months ago
@the0real0realitykid people were sayin that with more power behind it about 60 yrs ago. then the dead sea scrolls were discovered wich jumped us back another 600 yrs closer to the time of christ. and everything was exact except some small errors suchh as in english they put the instead of an. small scribal errors with all theology remaining intace. in fact they froze a new translation that was being done. after reading the scrolls they told them to go ahead. no changes
lravenhill 2 months ago
@the0real0realitykid Since we don't have the originals, we also can't know that the MSS are corrupted. This is merely a guess.
Rhology 1 month ago
@the0real0realitykid - And to go one step further. That "better understanding" that might be out there is going to contradict what we currently know. Since, what we currently know is somewhat fabricated.
Rocketryman 4 weeks ago
Have these Guys ever read Erhman's Books? He acknowledges everything that they are saying. He openely admits that most of the errors are spellling and such. These are the people that are misleading their readers/viewers, not Ehrman
ThePipermac 6 months ago 42
@ThePipermac Yes have them all and he does talk about all the current texts
bigjon1359 6 months ago
@ThePipermac agree. Many people who deconvert from christianity do it not because any argument or evidence, but because they see the hypocrisy, dishonesty and desperate attempts of fundamentalists and apologists to impede the advance of knowledge to keep their dogmas withstanding. I think they apologist and fundamentalist 'scholar' doesnt even realize of it. the objectivity of their minds has been corrupted by decades of confirmational bias.
sirdelrio 4 months ago
@ThePipermac
Abviously only the christians who want to believe the bible is somehow authentic/true gave you thums up ..truth is that what Dr Ehrman says is that the bible is full of serious errors and lies..not just simple spelling errors as you claim ..it is a seriously corrupt book and was written by men, one of whom was a criminal who handed over good christians to the Romans to get killed ... the bible is a serious joke and only fools and dreamers believe it is the word of God .
abooreen 1 month ago
@abooreen Yes I am a fool for Christ.
1sl4mSh1t 1 month ago
@1sl4mSh1t Yeah! Glad to be a Sheep as long as JESUS IS the Shepherd!!!
PEOPLE Forget that JESUS IS A WARRIOR...Don't they.
ucancallmebaby1 1 month ago
@ThePipermac Did Ehrman also acknowledge that the Bible is the only book that contains literally over a hundred fulfilled prophecies which God obviously preserved for us today?
chillzz25 4 weeks ago
@chillzz25 - Stop listing to your cult. Get out and read a book.
literally over a hundred fulfilled prophecies? Are you serious?
If you want to believe that go ahead. But when the smoke clears it comes down to speculation and wishful thinking.
Rocketryman 4 weeks ago
@Rocketryman That's right, over a hundred fulfilled prophecies and many of them were predicted hundreds of years prior to the fulfillment. I suggest u start ur research before judging a book from ur hatred and bias
chillzz25 4 weeks ago
@chillzz25 - No hatred friend. That is part of your delusion.
As far as judging a book. 30 years as a christian has shown me the light. That being...
There is none. But one day, when you get past your ego and are honest with yourself. You will apologize (to your friends and family) for your "hatred and bias."
Rocketryman 4 weeks ago
@Rocketryman 30 years and u are unaware of all the fulfilled prophecies in the Bible? And i have no problem with my ego or myself, only with ur ignorance regarding Bible prophecies. But i don't expect anything different from a atheist. And i don't have to apologize to my family because they are Bible believing Christians aswell u dick
chillzz25 4 weeks ago
@chillzz25 Honestly, I don't think that prophesies are worth the papyrus they're printed on. You can write up thousands of supposed allegorical prophesies, and a few hundred or thousand years later, I expect that someone will be able to argue that many of them will have come true. It's just a bunch of baloney.
crucisnh 4 weeks ago
@crucisnh ofcourse, everything to u atheists is baloney because it doesnt fit in ur worldview.
History is apparently also baloney to u. Everything in the Bible must be made up by a few people who one day decided to be creative right? Atheists who have this view make me laugh
chillzz25 4 weeks ago
@chillzz25 chillzz, I can't take anyone that spells "you" as 'u' and "your" as 'ur' seriously. Grow up. Childish insults from a child mean nothing.
And for the record, I am NOT an "atheist".
crucisnh 3 weeks ago
Im not sure where these people got their information but what they are saying about Dr Erhman omitting certain things he teaches (most of the mistakes in the bible being irrelevant for example) is completely false. He ALWAYS points these things out so I have to conclude that this video is very lazy research or deliberate lies to discredit him.
TheAmethystScorpion 6 months ago
If God wanted to write a book wouldn't it be interesting. I mean, c'mon, Doestoevsky is more interesting then most of the Bible. And the irony is most christians, or at least christians I know don't really read the bible anyway. They might go through some passages on sunday during church but they just don't have the time or the patience to read it.
egginajar 6 months ago
There is no evidence for an imaginary god up in the sky.
Seekthetruth3000 6 months ago
Did I read the same book they are talking about? Or watch the same clips of Ehrman speaking? Maybe you people should learn to discern truth from lies. Ehrman clearly states that mistakes range from minor grammatical errors to entire 'chunks' of scripture being added/removed. He also goes on to give examples of such errors. Where are your examples? Where are your facts and evidence. I discern an agenda here...
femmefatale0101 6 months ago
This video is incorrect! There are major differences between the ancient Gospel records .E.g. my NIV Bible has the following gloss on John chapters 7-8 (re. the adulterous woman): "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts do not have John 7:53 to 8:11". So, about 15 verses are missing from the earliest! Likewise, the last 15 verses of Mark are absent in the earliest manuscripts.
And of course, we have no knowledge about the Gospel writers. Indeed, the Gospels were penned anonymously.
psandbergnz 6 months ago
I challenge anyone to read.......YADAYAHWEH(DOT)COM
and to also read about Isalm in chronological order..prophetofdoom(dot)net
materialclassified 6 months ago
On top of the 5000+ copies of the new testament we also have hundreds of commentary on the bible written by various authors from at least the 2nd century; people such as Irenaeus, Origen, Augustine, etc. So this kind of nonsense is just another shallow attempt to try to delegitimize Christianity without facing it head on.
Jim1905 6 months ago
never listen to an apologetic
PiranhaJaw22 6 months ago
@PiranhaJaw22
Why?
They may know more than us.
ivlfounder 6 months ago
HAHAHA,,,,NICE TRY,,,,,,YOU GUYS DIDN'T FOOL ME,,,,,,,,,,BART EHRMAN WILL STILL CLOWN YOU GUYS
retro99ify 6 months ago
@dannywizz It's funny to see how protestants say they are not of any denomination because it's such a shame to know that your believes didn't exist until 500 years ago. I know what you believe, you believe that bible is the core. NT that was composed around 350 A.D and the OT that was altered by Luther himeslf!
"Early christian" of the 16'th century, yeah.
Early christians didn't even have the Bible so they couldn't have practices with it. Majority of them couldn't even read anyway...
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@MegaVldmr Im sorry to inform you but you have never meet God just as Ehrman never has. If you seek him you will find him.
If you are such an idiot to believe that the the Almighty God can not get his message across then you are a non believer.
If you think a simple human as Bart Ehrman is right then you are professing to that God is not all powerful and can not get hiss message across.
The bible is true. We are living in the End Times and every week bible prophecy is being fulfilled.
dannywizz 6 months ago
@dannywizz Yep, here we go again. What do you mean by "bible is true"? Do you mean text of it is true in it's literal interpretation? So, did Jesus died before the passover meal, as in Luke or after the meal, as in John? Was he crussified both times, if both accounts are true?
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@dannywizz
Who told you all message is the book, namely in the one main part of wich was composed 300 years after death of Jesus? Your pastor or parents probably did. Putting a message into a book when majority is illiterate, that's one wise god. And you who belive it call me an idiot. I just wonder, haven't you had just a little thought about how all-migthy God put everything into one book in Greek, language of the elite, but did not do anything else for ordinary good people to belive in him?
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
THE FACT THAT THERE IS ANY ERRORS AT ALL WILL TELL YOU THAT THE BIBLE IS NO LONGER THE ALMIGHTY'S WORD AND THAT MAN HAS LEFT HIS FINGER PRINTS ON IT. ALLAH IS FREE OF ERRORS AND MAY ALLAH PUNISH THOSE WHO THINK OTHERWISE.
nasr313 6 months ago
@nasr313 haha the amount of times the koran/quran has been changed due to its violence is amazing not to mention there is no evidence for early islam your book has many errors and no not misunderstandings actual errors just addmit to your self mohammed was going in the the caves and he became possessed he even wanted to kill him self he was so confused islam is the devils best played trick your allah will never punish me cause he is a pagan god sorry friend
Taurion4467 6 months ago
Fact... Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox etc uses different books already. There are 8 books or something in contest and you can believe whichever you like, it does not change the main message.
Fact, yes the Catholic Priests tried to change the bible around 350A.D. This does not mean they succeeded.
Fact they tried to kill all Christians before they decided to build the catholic church.
If you believe in an all powerful God you can be pretty sure he gets his message through.
dannywizz 6 months ago
From what i can recall, Bart Ehrman clearly points out that many of the thousands of textural errors ARE tiny and in many ways insignificant. I find him very accessable and easy to understand unlike many christian apologists.
bonnie43uk 6 months ago
I'm so tired of hearing American people trying to be experts at linguistics when they really only speak one language while other countries speak at least 2-3 languages.
Bart Ehrman is nothing but an attention seeker. He wants to get noticed!
1. The Kings James bible is not the translation everyone uses. The bible in other languages has often been translated from other bibles and Greek manuscripts.
2. Something you cant clearly define in English from Greek you can define in other languages.
dannywizz 6 months ago
@dannywizz He continues to say that he wants to be noticed again and again.
I'm Russian, and we use our own translation from Greek. But did you know Greek manuscripts were altered? Gospel of John probably did not contain story about woman accused of adultery. Do you know that? I didn't. And that all gospels were anonymous and not claim to be written by disciples and that names were added later to them. And that stories found in different gospels don't add up. No one bothered telling me this.
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
But the main idea of Ehrman's books is that different gospels portray story of Jesus very differently. I didn't notice that before i got this idea from Ehrman. Then i started to understand better what gospels really say. If you think scripture just retells you what your priest have already told you and you ignore inconsistencies which appear while reading then you are misreading the scripture!
If you read gospel of Luke with the idea that Jesus said he was a son of God then you misread it.
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@MegaVldmr If you truly believe Ehrmans claims then you ought to know the 80/20 principle. It really does not matter if Ehrman is right or wrong for you believing in that Jesus was the son of God or not. If 20% of the book is true then 80 % of the message is still there. Do you believe the main message?
The problem with Ehrmans claim are that they are just minor things in the bible.
If you are schooled in the bible then you know that Jesus is mentioned in every book in the bible.
dannywizz 6 months ago
@dannywizz Again, if you have read Ehrman's books you would probably understand the problem. why we have 27 books in NT? why not 20? Why not 35? There were over 50 gospels when bible was made around 350 A.D., why we have only chosen 4? What is "the main message" one should belive? Different people have different views of what the main message was. I've been raised in ortodox christian envorement so i've been led to belive certan things about message of Jesus. Gnostic christians think differently
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@dannywizz Besides, Ehrman claims that originals of gospels do not contain the consistent historical/bibliographical data. This can mean that 80% is true or 30% is true or that 5% is true. But it's surely not 0% that is true because it the story was completely fictional then authors would not have a problem making it consistent, and it's not. Honestly, i don't trust John now. He claims to know so much why Jesus died but he wrote it 60 years after the event and he puts stuff Jesus never said.
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@MegaVldmr
1. You are not a christian believer so stop acting as if you were.
2. Historical records of Alexander The Great, Genkhis Khan, Buddha, Socrates etc are less supported but I guess you have no problem with those.
3. American are the worst linguistics IT IS A FACT!
4. Ehrman has a political agenda behind all this....he is a hired hand.....but you probably don't believe that either.
5. You are a russian and you should be able to translate the words of the Gospel of John better than him.
dannywizz 6 months ago
@dannywizz 1. If you are a protestant then you probably don't even know what "being a christian" means. I'm sorry.
2. Yes, but the problem is gospels are not historical records and you can not read them this way. They were written with different purposes, historicaly accurate depiction of the events was not one.of them. In their literal interpretations gospels contradict each other and extrabiblical sources.
5. I'm not a language geek, i don't know greek! I rely upon NSAB if i need translation
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@MegaVldmr I see. I am a protestant and you are of the true faith? Yeah right. I consider myself to be a bible believer, an follower of the early christian practices. Not some ritual & costume based faith.
Why do I think Americans are bad linguistics. First of the American English is not based on grammatical laws like Real British English is.
Ex. John.. A God, One God or The God...It says "GodOne" if you read it in greek, In swedish it would be "Guden". As a Swede I know how to read this.
dannywizz 6 months ago
Only people who didn't read Bart Ehrman's books will belive this video.
400.000 mistakes is not the his main point. It doesn't matter how many old manuscripts we have today, if majority of them have been copied from one that contained mistakes then we'll have mistakes in the Bible reguardless of number of sources. It is the earliest and most accurately copied manuscripts we have to rely upon. King James contains stuff that wasn't in the originals!
MegaVldmr 7 months ago
@MegaVldmr "Only people who didn't read Bart Ehrman's books will belive this video."
You read Dr Ehrman's book(s) * presumably* and you fail to notice what this video states.
I ask you.... how many words do you know in English to explain what a Pepsi is?
IE: Soda, Pop, Sodapop, cold drink, drink, beverage, carbonated drink, ect...
Do you understand that linguistically, a textorial variation DOES NOT MEAN mistake?
If I said "The sky is dark" and u wrote "the sky is black".... are you lieing?
milkydud 7 months ago
@milkydud
Yes, and it is another point. Pepsi Doesn't exactly mean soda, and if one man copies "soda" instead of "Pepsi", and other scribe reads "soda" and puts "Cola", next one changes "Cola" to "Coca cola". And we have manuscript that tells us different stuff, just because of baised opinions of scribes reguarding tastes of sodas.
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@milkydud And it's even not the main point. Forget the spelling mistakes or changing the order of words, or changing some word to another word of close meaning. Let's concentrate on 0.1% of 400,000 "textual variants" that are other kind of textual variations. Those are forgeries and ommisions of unwanted stuff. A lot of them are in the bible that is printed today. And even that is not the main point of Ehrman's books.
MegaVldmr 6 months ago
@MegaVldmr
"pepsi vs cola"
Please understand, no matter what book read that has been translated multiple times has many differences excluding 0 books of antiquity. Every translator translates according to its individual understanding of a language and its intended crowd.
Many of Muhammads followers even had qurans that varied. This is why uthman organised the first official quranic text being that he was kalhifa.
milkydud 6 months ago
@MegaVldmr
No forgerys are in the nt. Again, many of the varied words are not others inserts. The inserts are the translation. A better example is noticed in some of the textorial differences with the quranic codexes. Uthman uses Allah instead of He more often when compared to taniskin *i can't spell well* quran. Is that a difference you consider when comparing the nt to the quran?
This is y you see in some of Pauls letters saying "they murdered/killed Jesus".
milkydud 6 months ago
Bring it! Put up or stfu!
uFlubber 7 months ago
Yes, The first collection of books, now called the Bible was first written in Greek. Thus tarnishing the Bible with Hellenistic shades and hue. It might then, without doubt, follow that ancient Greek is also required to place the words in the Bible correctly. Thank you, Sir.
vailixi9 7 months ago
Bring your best christian apologist and debate Bart, and we'll decide who is telling the truth and knows their shit. I saw Bart absolutely own William Lane Craig!
uFlubber 7 months ago
@uFlubber lol. In what strange universe are you living in?
empreme 7 months ago
@uFlubber
I would not say "own"
I thought they tied.
You want to see william lane craig get owned?!
watch his debate with Shelly Kagan.
There were times he was at a loss for words, I think when Kagan asked about accountability.
idky1349 7 months ago
Wow. How terrible is must be to be afraid of the truth. How scary to be close to realize that you might be wasting your life.
And I'm not talking about Ehrman.
He was talking about the Greek manuscripts when he says they don't have the originals.
What a terrible, misleading and hamfisted attempt to hide the truth.
johnycannuk 7 months ago
All bible readers should undertake at least a basic course in Aramaic, the language Jesus spoke, and a course in Judaic culture, to understand what Jesus said. Many christians understand and give meaning to the words spoke by Jesus in the context of one's own culture, and not in the context of Jesus's times and culture. Though this does not intrisically harm anyone, it is just not the right thing to do. It is a corruption of the scripture. Jesus was certainly not American Evangelists?
vailixi9 7 months ago
@vailixi9 They also might want to learn Greek, which was the language the NT was written in (not Aramaic).
Nothing in this video even touches on Ehrman's main arguments against the validity of the NT.
Perhaps Christians ought to actually read his books and see his evidence (evidence supported by the vast majority of biblical scholars) rather than listening to 3:41 of propaganda from those likely to lose their money and power should the truth be known.
johnycannuk 7 months ago
bart is shit
matrixlone 7 months ago
Ya ya ya, bring Bart and debate him, that's they way to do it; otherwise go back to sleep.
FirstCar33 8 months ago
" He claims that we now have a BETTER IDEA WHAT THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT SAID THAN EVER BEFORE"
what does that mean, does that mean you have the original? I dont think so. So the refutation of the people in the video against Bart Ehman is a desperate attempt.
whitejewel101 8 months ago
This is an absolute missrepresentation of ehrmans sayings. Ehrman makes clear in his lectures and his writings, that the vast majority of the errors in the manuscripts are absolutly unimportant and don't matter for a thing. His argument is among others, that a change of one word in a big passage can indeed change the meaning of a text. Just put a "not" in a text at the right place and you have a change of the meaning.
balouthewatz 8 months ago
@balouthewatz Moreover, the speaker in the video, in trying to refute Bart Ehrman's saying that the original copy is nonexistent, he ended up admitting that what Erhman said is in fact true. " He claims that we now have a BETTER IDEA WHAT THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT SAID THAN EVER BEFORE"
tHat simply means that BArt Ehrman's saying is true that there no original text available.
whitejewel101 8 months ago