Does DNA evidence refute the Book of Mormon? 2 of 6

[MrMFHORN]

ANTI MORMONS DEBUNKED AGAIN!

[MrMFHORN]

FACT: YOU CANNOT GET A RELIABLE DNA SAMPLE FURTHER BACK THAN A THOUSAND YEARS. THE BOOK OF MORMON PEOPLE GO BACK THOUSANDS SO THERE IS NO WAY TO GET A OLD ISRAELITE (JACOBITE) SAMPLE TO COMPARE WITH IN THE FIRST PLACE. . That said, there is no need for these longwinded video's.

[KevinJ1live]

Are you guys actually listening to what this guy is saying..... Ive watched the series of these videos.... He isn't making any sense... and he contradicts himself constantly.

[jesushatesyoutoo]

So the book of Mormon is not a scientific document so it can not be proven or disproved scientifically? Yet you claim it is true history! History uses science to confirm anecdotal stories of the past, i.e. history! The Book of Mormon claims that all the new World peoples came from the middle east. If this were true we would find middle eastern DNA we don't we find Asian DNA! Ancient burial mounds dating back to the period claim by the book of Mormon produces Asian DNA NOT middle Eastern DNA

[Sk8er408]

@jesushatesyoutoo

You can not compare Jewish DNA to them as there was never a claim that they were Jewish. Only from the House of Israel. It was claimed that they were from the tribe of Joseph... not Judah. Plus there were other people brought into the mix... about 2-3 different groups.

Stop trying to prove that they are not Jewish when no one claimed they were.

[jesushatesyoutoo]

@Sk8er408 I never said "Jewish" DNA. Do you deny they were supposedly middle eastern?

[Sk8er408]

@jesushatesyoutoo

They are not middle eastern to our standard of today.

[jesushatesyoutoo]

@Sk8er408 Oh, they were white, is that what you are saying?

[GaryKColeman]

@jesushatesyoutoo

The DNA used to condemn the BoM is mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Women pass mtDNA to their children. All of us got our mtDNA from our mothers. The other genetic marker being used is the Y-chromosone (Y-chr), which is passed by men to their sons.

Tom Murphy & Simon Southerton say the BoM is false because Middle East mtDNA cannot be found among the American Indians. Southerton also says the same thing about the Y-chr.....cont....

[GaryKColeman]

@jesushatesyoutoo

Our 2nd daughter married a man whose father's paternal line is Danish, and his mother's line is Japanese. They have two sons & a daughter. All three children have the mtDNA of their mother, which is my wife's mtDNA, which is from Sweden. The boys have their father's Y-chr, which is from Denmark.

Using the same tests that Murphy & Southerton used, one can prove that those children have Swedish ancestry, and that the boys have Danish ancestry too....cont.....

[GaryKColeman]

@jesushatesyoutoo

But No One can prove that they also have Japanese ancestry.

If the tests cannot find any mtDNA from their Japanese grandmother, who is alive & well, how reliable are those tests in finding Israelite DNA from 2,000 yrs ago? The lack of Japanese mtDNA in those children does NOT mean that they are not part Japanese.

The lack of Israelite DNA in the American Indians does not disprove the Book of Mormon....end...

[FastbackJon]

The Book of Abraham papyri were thought lost in the 1871 Great Chicago Fire. However, in 1966 several fragments of the papyri were found in the Museum of Art in New York, and in the LDS church archives. Upon examination by professional Egyptologists, the papyri were found to be common Egyptian funerary texts, dating to about the first century BC, and not a story of Abraham as Joseph Smith claimed.

The Bible is true, but the book of Mormon is not. See:

4mormon.org

[cureloms]

@FastbackJon  keep dreaming buddy, it's true.

[tamsanqa11]

@FastbackJon go back to your anti-mormon library and get something better than that old boy! perverters of the truth have been including this nonsense for ages in anti mormon literature. The Book of Abraham was not with the fragments that were found in 1966. You are making these anti-mormon authors a lot of money. What they write is not scholarly and is so extremely biased. Read something with some truth in it... like the Book of Mormon.. or the Book of Abraham for that matter :)

[FastbackJon]

@tamsanqa11 The LDS church has admitted the book of abraham text was not on the papyri. This isn't anything from an anti-mormon library. I go straight to the source! Falsehoods disprove themselves quite readily. :-)

[jeblinux]

In summary, thanks to DNA evidence, the limited geography model of Sorensen is becoming a lot more popular.

[ladster1234]

Talk about trying to cover the bases. DNA dont Lie. Doesnt mean that the Book of Mormon is bad, wrong or negative, just that the "facts" that I was spoon fed all my life was not factual and is discredited by DNA. Doesnt effect my testimony of the scripture. I no longer take everything I am told at church as a fact. I make my own decisions as to what is truth and what is questionable

[omiolo]

They established the thriving Newel K. Whitney store, built a sawmill for turning out furniture and building materials and an ashery that turned hardwoods into potash for the creation of glass, soap, leather goods, gunpowder and paper, and other important things needed for development. Those landmarks are now part of Historic Kirtland.

[omiolo]

Their sheer numbers threatened the local power brokers, she said, and the Mormons' purchase of land drove prices up in a time when the economy was in a depression.

But the Mormons also accomplished a great deal in a time when this area was still barely more than a frontier.

[omiolo]

During the seven years from the time prophet Joseph Smith arrived in Kirtland in 1831 from Palyma, N.Y., and the time he and most of his followers left the area in 1838 on their westward migration, the new Mormons changed the face of Kirtland forever.

"Kirtland was a sleepy village of about 800 people when the Mormons first arrived, and soon the population had more than tripled as Joseph Smith's followers came to join him here," explained Kathy Purmal of the Lake County Historical Society.

[thesiRisacc]

Question to a learned Mormon:

Should not everything written by Joseph Smith be totally and completely true if we are to follow his teachings?

[LDSapologist71]

These anti-mormons commenting below are blatently trying to decieve.

FAIR is going to give an honest answer to criticism, and these commenters didn't even bother to listen to the videos, but to comment in ignorance.

[thisfreakingname]

@LDSapologist71 You've been told that anything that disagrees with the church is anti-Mormons with an agenda to deceive. Of course you'll keep spouting that crap. Why can't you people just have an ounce of intellectual integrity instead of trying to dance around the facts to appease your emotions.

[3R3MITE]

Amerindians are Mongoloids. There is no debate about it in the secular world.

[keriscorp]

fubar....BUWAAAHAAAHAAA!!! what a vapid idiot...

"Every year there's an ice bridge."

you say that?

"A common misconception is that the Bering Strait freezes in the winter time and it is easy to walk across the ice. In reality there is a strong current flowing north through the strait which usually creates large channels of open water. On occasion these open channels become clogged with moving chunks of pan ice..."

angusadventures . com/beringstrait.html

fubar....BUWAAHAAHAAHAA!! jackass!!

[fubecabr]

It does ice up every winter. I didn't say it was completely iced over all winter or that it would be safe to do so.

During the ice age, the sea level was lower and there would be year around ice at the bering strait. Oh, and the first native americans came over 2 ice ages ago or about 30,000 years ago. That's before the mormon god said the world and human race even existed.

[keriscorp]

FUBAR...first, im not a mormon...im not good enough...second you said theres an ice bridge every year, right? "bridge"

your words...now youre saying "During the ice age, the sea level was lower and there would be year around ice at the bering strait."...actually the "PROS" say it was all land no water a that juncture. well, some do. these are all moot points, BUT...

alaska popultion, 2008...680,000...

the heatry sibes found bounty in alaska, but went south....yer a joke, dude...um...

BOATS!!

[fubecabr]

Sure, you're not a mormon. You just like to hang out on morg videos, defending the morg.

Yes, either/or. The sea level was low enough to walk through on dry land. Even if it wasn't, the sea level would have been low enough to be iced over at that point.

I never said they found "bounty" in Alaska.

The PROS do not say BOATS!! Boat building tech was totally non-existent in 30,000 BC. Boat building did not begin until 3000 BC.

[keriscorp]

fubar....and the PROS do say boats...thor hyerdal to start...

you REALLY ned o do some research....and.... stop makng an ass of yourself....but... you ARE good a it....i commend you...

[fubecabr]

A couple of PROS say boats. The majority don't. You really need to do some research.

You are the one making a total ass of yourself. Again, you comment that siberians must use really good birth control was one for the ages.

So was your comment that Siberia wasn't that cold. What's next? The Sahara isn't all that hot either and they must use really good birth control there since the population is so low.

[keriscorp]

fubecabr has replied to your comment

deleted

[omiolo]

@fubecabr ohnson, a Mormon convert, said he really appreciates the story being told from a non-Mormon point of view. Although Mormon children learn about the history of their church from an early age, Johnson knows that non-Mormons usually don't.

"And this area is so rich with history," he said.

[keriscorp]

an estimated 8 to166 million 'jndians' were here in 1492...there are a mere 3 million siberians today ...109 million mexicans and about 190 million brazilians....the siberians came from the americas, or they have been using EXTREMELY good birthcontrol for the last 500 years

[fubecabr]

Are you really this stupid? Are you for real? Are you using subterfuge, pretending to be a stupid mormon?

I've seen a lot of dumb comments on youtube. This is one of the dumbest.

Siberia is a cold, inhospitable place. If the cold didn't kill you, the lack of food would.

[keriscorp]

fubar...i have a friend from siberia...he says the winters arent that bad....there are tons of game, and fish....go away....

[fubecabr]

Maybe in the southern part. Siberia is terribly cold. Hitler's invasion failed for this reason.

"The ghastly cold of that winter had the strangest consequences. Thousands and thousands of soldiers had lost their limbs; thousands and thousands had their ears, their noses, their fingers and their sexual organs ripped off by the frost. Many had lost their hair Many had lost their eyelids. Singed by the cold, the eyelid drops off like a piece of dead skin Their future was only lunacy."

[keriscorp]

fubar....are you then asserting that people left their warm homes and headed NORTH into unknown lands, walked thousands of miles through frozen tundra, and crossed a non exisrant land bridge for fun? that would be VERY stupid...unless they had heard about america on tv. i didt buy that nonsense when i was 7. makes more sense to build a boat.

[fubecabr]

Homes? Agriculture was only developed about 10,000 years ago. These people were nomadic hunters.

Non existent land bridge? Are you really this dumb? Go look at a nautical chart of the bering strait. You can also look at a satellite photo and see a large part of the ocean floor because it is so shallow.

Every year there's an ice bridge.

Thanks for demonstrating more ignorance.

[keriscorp]

fubar says.....

"Are you really this dumb? "

"Every year there's an ice bridge."

this is too much fun...

"Thanks for demonstrating more ignorance. "

OH...OH....BUW....AAAAAHAAAAAH­AAAA!!!

hey fubar...dont get me wrong...im not laughing at you....just...everything you say...BUWAAAHAAAHAAA!!!

[fubecabr]

Is that your comeback after being schooled like a little schoolgirl, six ways from sunday?

[kramd1]

got to  6.30

" The book of Mormon story does not fit with DNA evidence"

[Chaos4Free]

Don't waste time. Jump straight to 4:00.

[melonbarmonster]

This is ridiculous. How do these idiots get their degrees? Why would the second hypothesis not be discriminating? If you claim that the original colonizers were genetically isolated then you would find unique genetic markers in their descendants that aren't found in any other populations. You would also have to prove that the colonizers were genetically isolated group and see if the book of mormons supports this hypothesis.

[tamsanqa11]

melonbarmonster-In answer to your question, these "idiots" get their degrees by attending on average 3-4 years of post graduate studies and writing disertations that are reviewed by professionals in their field. The point you try to make after your question is confusing at best. He didn't "claim" that the colonizers were genetically isolalated. He said that could be a hypothesis but offered a better hypothesis. One in which the colonizers arrived and were greeted by other groups of people.

[jesushatesyoutoo]

@tamsanqa11 But that is NOT what the Book of Mormon claims!

"We also bear testimony that the "Indians" (so called) of North and South America are a remnant of the tribes of Israel; as is now made manifest by the discovery and revelation of their ancient oracles and records."

- OFFICIAL CHURCH PROCLAMATION OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS. April 6, 1845 (

[GetMeThere1]

I've viewed quite a few of these mormon DNA apologist videos. They're ALL THE SAME: a HUGE MORASS OF DOUBLETALK that goes on and on forever--AND AMOUNTS TO NOTHING!

It's an attempt to create a colossal smokescreen to blind people to the fact that it is now KNOWN that "indians" came from Siberia, while mormons have, since Joseph Smith, been declaring they were all from the middle east.

Only NOW are they starting to say "Hey, we never said ALL the indians were from the middle east." BALONEY!

[hhubble]

"no one has designed a research program to get at the authenticity of the book of mormon using DNA it has not happened"

therefore we should not listen to what they have to say?

Okay, so doesn't this mean you and your defenders also didn't come up with a program to defend the authenticity of the book of mormon using DNA, so aren't you negating your own defense with this logic? or lack of logic???

This argument is moot, they are using the info from an outside source, not their own, the experts

[canadianbacon007]

Aren't you paying attention? There's no way to do it, so why waste time and effort, not to mention money to try??. Is that concept to hard to figure out??? T H E T E S T S T H E Y D I D P R O V E N O T H I N G !!

[hhubble]

This is the official argument? theres no way to do it, so why waste time and effort?

Then you ask people to covert to your religion give up all their beliefs, not to mention money for something you can't prove? Like this Grady Fella below stated, sounds like you can't prove it's not true so it must be true"

But the objective tests and archeologists CAN prove it's not real, through concrete, legally excepted DNA proof and history. Like the Book of Abraham, another made up translation.

[canadianbacon007]

No it's not the official argument, it's my official arguement to, if you can call it that, your arguement. And no one asks anybody to give up their beliefs, we simply ask them to look at ours. Whether they give up their beliefs is entirely up to them. Or do you think we are only trying to convert all the mindless of the world. That must be so they won't complain when poison the punch right?

[canadianbacon007]

As for tithing, no one is forced to pay tithing, it's a matter of faith. When it comes to the real arguement, the critics said the the DNA evidence proved the BofM was false, our arguement simply, no it doesn't. Or are we supposed to give up our beliefs and believe yours as you so smugly put it. The ridiculous statement you quote by that Grady Fella, "sounds like you can't prove it's not true so it must be true", well, I rest my case.

[canadianbacon007]

BTW Archeology has not proved the BofM is untrue, quite the opposite, it's proving that it is probably true. Try reading something else besides anti mormon rhethoric. If you think the Book of Abraham is made up, why don't you tell us all about it.

[hhubble]

You make strong concise, irrefutable, concrete arguments and reasons, sign me up canadian. You're arguments that you're right are right. DNA be damn. You're also right about the historical evidence. Archeology has proven that those ancient battles where millions died did happen. When they found all those ancient weapons and bodies buried underneath upstate N.Y. or in Central America, or in Brazil. All proven. Book of Abraham found on Egyptian scrolls. ALL TRUE.

Slowly backs away from computer.

[tamsanqa11]

hhubble-Give up all their beliefs? Where are you getting that? The church teaches just the opposite! Converts are encouraged to keep the truths they have and bring them along and allow the restored church of Jesus Christ to add to their truths.

[grady5647]

It still turns into a "THEY CAN'T PROVE IT'S NOT TRUE SO IT MUST BE TRUE" kind of an argument which is bullcrap. You still have the overwhelming burden of proof. Solid proof which has not been met. A NOT quick look at DNA studies shows that no matter how many generations and mixing there should be at least a minute connection between parts of the DNA indiginous to Israelis and Native Americans. This we can do with every other people groups but you say it somehow doesn't apply to Native Americans

[HiveRadical]

Firstly the speed of one's look doesn't inherently correspond to the correctness of one's conclusions. What do you, grady, know of the nature of autosomal genetics? What of mtDNA? Why not address specifics in the arguments presented in this video series? Your assertion 'there should be at least a minute connection' is irrelevant because you have to demonstrate that it's testable. And your assertion that 'we can do this with every other people groups (very 'scientific' word formulation btw :-7

[Justice1337]

They're not asserting it as scientific truth, and I think it's kind of short-sighted that after seeing this video you would think that.

They're defending plausibility, that's all.

[mitbrown80]

Did you watch the same video? The claim is that the burden of proof falls on the individual, to gain a testimony for oneself. I've read it, prayed about it, and received an answer. That is something no one can refute.

[canadianbacon007]

What if archeology and anthropology came out and said the DNA argument is invalid, because we now know that it's impossible that the only people of pre-columbian populations only came from siberia? Well hang on to your shorts, because that will soon be the case, and the DNAysayers will get get their day in court. Sadly damages for foot in mouth offences are only limited to the relief the offender will voluntarily provide.

[canadianbacon007]

First of all it's (indigenous), secondly what in the world talking about? What does indigenous have to do with DNA? Oh, and how can you have the burden of proof for something that can't be proved.

[canadianbacon007]

Is it just me, or is your reasoning a little off kilter? As in you don't what you are talking about. And no, the nice man said just the opposite, that even if they knew what to look for, genetic swamping, drift, mutation etc might not leave a trace of the marker that you can't even compare to another to begin with. Sheesh. If you are going to argue the point, you might at least pay attention.

[canadianbacon007]

As far as (the original indigenous people)umm, they all died a minimum of several thousand years ago, so unless you can dig up a few Eskimo mummies, who even knows what their DNA looks like, or if that's what to look for to begin with. The same applies for the (indigenous Israelites)

[grady5647]

Okay so when we use DNA evidence to convict criminals and trace lineages to other cultures etc... it has a high percentage of accuracy. But when applied to BOM teachings it turns into a "May or May not Have" theology. give me whatever you're smokin.

[fairldsorg]

A quick look at DNA studies would answer your question. They have both samples to test from. Population genetics is much different. 50% of DNA is lost every generation. You have admixture, bottlenecking, drift, and many more problems to overcome when trying to genetically test for a population that came to the Americas 2600 years ago.