The Libertarian Perspective on Healthcare: I Dont Want No INsurance

[wachman]

why can't I decide what to do with my own money??? The government has NO right to force me to be charitable to others! Penny by penny they're taking our hard earned income away from us all. freestateproject(dot)org

[jk47500]

@wachman Can't really decide what to do with your own money if you have to spend thousands of dollars on treatment and medication you have no control over needing. I hope something happens to you that makes you change your mind.

[UKLooney]

Standards will fall, cost will rise, life expectancy of the poor will increase slightly, whilst the middle class figures will go down, fat cats will get fatter. At least in the UK, there are not too many fat cats in our health care system, just a lot of disgruntled underpaid, overworked state slaves.

Have court claims against the govt run system been factored into the budget? I'm sure they would add an additional billion or two onto the laughable estimates they are coming out with.

[rayray695]

The woman is right, she doesn't want to pay into a system that doesn't work, and selfish is wanting to take her money from her anyway because "other people want this public option"

[mikeyhuggs]

@rayray695 "take her money from her..." Selfish heck it is stealing. God said "thou shalt NOT steal!" The debate should end right there. No plan/bill/law is worthy that steals from anyone to give to another. Period. Taxes are theft. Truly I ask, how much health care could we afford without stealing from others if we, um, stop stealing from each other? Bandits at every turn. Taxes, regulations, mandates, fees, usary, on everything. What part of thou shalt not steal is so hard to understand?

[akchilstrom]

I agree completely with her, and am scared of every aspect of government run healthcare. Don't have insurance, don't want it, and believe it is the cause of the problems we have.

[kennyfreakinrocks]

"Screw these problems, I want to have a discussion: WTF libertarian, straw man straw man straw man..."

"woah hold up, I didn't say that - here's my position.."

"Oh looks like we're having problems all of a sudden, time to end it"

[Denzochan]

She's right, our tax in the UK is very high, but there aren't any cases of health workers saying 'we're sorry we can't treat you for this problem, it's in the small print of your insurance plan' because we don't have insurance plans, the health system isn't built to make money it's built to ensure that all British people are entitled to good care.I can't understand some American's fear of some dark force taking all their money, yeah we pay high tax in UK, but we're not living in cardboard boxes.

[Superlibertytv]

No you live on top of each other in flats and have thousands of cameras spying on you everyday to make sure your a good consumer. Your nothing but cattle for the rich elite and your content with that cause your ignorant and don't realize how much better your life could actually be if you were just allowed to be free for a change. You think you live a high standard of living, but they just let you live comfortable enough so you don't question your reality and revolt.

[Superlibertytv]

A rancher always makes sure all his cattle are healthy and well cause they are his property. You are the property of those who control "YOUR" government. If they decide to get rid of you, they will and you will scream about your rights you never really had. You live at another man's grace instead of God's.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Archibald Stuart (1791)

[PsychiatryExposed]

Health care reform is to aid the Psychiatric Gestapo to make America a therapeutic state.

All out kids are to be screened for mental illness all over again.Nuts.

Google Thoma Szasz if you are Libertarian.

[NonfatAntipop]

Wow, Szasz is an interesting fella

[coolwise1]

Healthcare is a service and anyone should have the choice to have insurance or not. Nobody should be force to buy insurance. Some of the real issues is to reduce cost for medical services and help make insurance more affordable without government subsidies. One of the ways to reduce cost is make sure the dollar stop losing its purchasing power. That's the Fed problem and another issue aside for this one.

[superryanburns]

go libertarians!!!!!! vote for the right choice in 2012!!!!!!

[22KingRat]

When the medical, drug, legal, and insurance industries 'each agree' to reduce their costs to consumers is when America will have health care reform, and not until then!

Greed is the problem! Compromise is the answer!!!

As usual, a libertarian has made good 'common sense' to me again!

[idnotego]

Greed really isn't the problem. It's greed subsidized by government at the expense of individuals. I go to work everyday because I'm greedy and want more for myself and family but don't use a gun to force people to pay me for my services. You might want to add to your list the universities also. How do you expect a doctor to pay off huge school loans with lower wages? Not gonna happen until gov't also stops subsidizing higher education, which would bring costs down.

[FrodoLitwin]

What's missing from this discussion is how politics got us here:

Laws force private insurance to cover everything, e.g. maternity care for women past menopause!

Bad court decisions have cost doctors a fortune, raising the cost of malpractice insurance.

The FDA won't approve generic versions of the most expensive drugs, such as Enbrel ($1500 per month because FDA regulation blocked their competition).

Regulation erases competition, our only true protection.

We have no free market!

[BaronVonTrout]

I'm studying to be a doctor, and I agree with Debbie. Almost every pre-med student I know also dislikes the health-care reform 'plan'. The rest usually don't care much.  If there is a 'public option', and they start rationing health-care, like they will... its just a step away before they start rationing doctors or dictating where we live and how we work. That is kind of scary for me, to prospect lose my liberty. And also doesn't help I agree with Debbie philosophically as a libertarian.

[cjsmith315]

I love how whenever someone has a position that isn't directly mainstream, they get laughed off. That always upset me when I participate in these sort of discussions and make comments like Debbie's and people look at me weird.

[masonranch]

Awesome, debbie is right on. The moderator needs to think about it. Our health care system is the best in the world, It doesn't need reform.  We need to lower cost. To do that we need tort reform, but then again trail lawyers are one of Obama's principle support groups.

[hthelper]

If a particular box of cereal sold for $2.99 at store A & $3.79 at store B, where would you buy it? As it is now, that box of cereal is $12.99 because of fraud & waste. If you knew the truth about the insurance business, you might not want to participate either.

[hthelper]

If insurance companies had to compete on a level (meaning all people get the same benefits) playing field for paying customers, we would see major reductions in premiums. They would have powerful incentives to become more efficient, so they could attract more paying customers by charging a lower premium than their competitors for the same benefit (product).

[hthelper]

Today, it has become so complex & confusing that the customer (or their employer) pays, pays & pays, only to discover that when the need arises to actually use the insurance, their particular condition or treatment isn't covered for one arcane reason or another. Oh, you mean that you didn't read the "fine print" in your policy?

[hthelper]

There is a big difference between the money taken in by insurance companies and what is paid out in claims. Originally, insurance was supposed to simply "pool" the risk, with the same basic premium paid by everyone, regardless of their individual circumstances.

[hthelper]

Debbie brings up a very important point. There is no provision in the current proposal (bill) that would allow a person who does not want to participate, the freedom to 'opt out'. No one should be forced into this.

If more people understood the magnitude of compensation at the top layers of the insurance companies, there would be a major nationwide clamor to make them become Bernie Madoff's new neighbors. Continued....

[mikeyhuggs]

Exactly my sentiments Debbie. No middlemen. I just want to deal directly with my doctor. Stop the fraud. Free the market.