Wow, they are not dead, in prison, or on welfare. The teaching is great, and certain kids absorb well.
But seriously, some people are plain stupid. Just because somebody called you stupid, and you proved them wrong, doesn't mean that there are no stupid people. Just because someone said that I would never dunk a basketball, and one day I did, doesn't mean that everyone can dunk.
That's not how it works, what a horrible argument by these people. Absorbing and thinking are different.
@OffTheGlass87 No, you're dead wrong. Most people can learn (and learn how to dunk). Its def easier for some than others, but its not impossible for anyone with lots of gumption, imagination, and willingness to work and get help. Stupid people may arise from ignorance or lack of growth, not bc they CANT learn, they choose not to.
Missed words ontthis iPhone. I blamed my teacher for not teaching but I blamed myself for not knowing better. I left Chicgo in 1988 to give my son a better life away from the inner city.
I grew up on the Westside of Chicago and I can attest that my elementary school wasn't the best. In the fourth grade I had a teacher that taught us absolutely nothing and when went outside for recess she would send us to the store for her. I blame her for teaching but I blame myself for being a victim and not having that will inside of me to know that I should have been in the library reading. Iive in Atlanta and I will graduate from college in June at the age of 44. All things are possible.
Why invite him their he's never going to show,he don't want to see that he's trying to make his own reallity,one that base on FALSE HOOD" if he see that,he might kill himself,you know how some people are.
I was amazed at the assertion that the author of 'The Bell Curve', Charles Murray, was a Conservative. He is a Libertarian by his own description, and a Liberal elitist by his words and actions. His assumptions that lower class/lower income children are less capable of high achievement are unsupported and ridiculous. He's also written of TEA partiers as being low-IQ types, and jealous of attendees of Ivy League schools. No evidence, no confirmation, no sense.
@mssrus "Liberal elitist by his words and actions" being racist is NOT liberal. Doesn't matter if one's a fiscal conservative or a social conservative, at the heart of their argument is isolation. There's nothing "liberal" or progressive about Charles Murray. Although this interview is almost 18 years old, people who espouse the views of a Charles Murray do not value human life, much less human potential.
@ArtLoversStudio18 The Liberal concept of keeping blacks in failed schools (as Mrs. Collins commented) and expecting them to be permanent members of the dependency class, is exactly the problem. As for who values human life, look who wants unfettered access to abortion and release of dangerous criminals from 'overcrowded' prisons. Mr. Murray is no conservative. Mrs. Collins would have made a splendid Sec. of Education...she'd have done away with all the PC crap that still infests schools.
@mssrus Ms. Collins was a teacher in the Chicago School system before she started her academy. Subsequently, she became the Chancellor of that same school system that she found fault with.
There are many reasons why the school system is inadequate, but it's not just low-income neighborhoods where blacks reside, it's all over. In conservative Middle America, they champion being the idea of not being educated, as your former Alaskan governor so proudly called, "Joe Sixpack."
And, as far as your comment about Liberals keeping Black in failed school--you're quite a bit of ways off base. If anything, the liberal intelligentsia has been fighting an uphill battle to write the wrongs of systematic and political neglect. For you to insinuate that blacks don't care about education is miss what Ms.Collins and those caring parents-- typical, I might say of most African Americans-- want so desperately for their children.
I'd suggest to you to spend your time trying to find a solution instead of looking down your boney nose and pointing fingers at people who're actually trying to do something.
@ArtLoversStudio18 My nose is neither bony nor uplifted. I home schooled my children during the 90s to counteract the lax standards of the local district. We were told that 'correct spelling isn't forced here, because it hinders creativity and is harmful to a child's self-esteem'. The school was majority black, reading levels were abysmal, the teacher notes were misspelled and ungrammatical, and asking for phonic instruction (what Marva Collins used) was taboo. My kids got out.
@mssrus I'm beginning to understand what you want to say. I applaud you for rescuing your children. I wish other parents had the opportunity to do the same. Where I think you and I have the problem is that you're lumping many issues together.
First, we all want our kids to have the best education possible and we all (most of us) expect them to use that education to build on the things that we've taught them with the hopes of passing it along. Education, for me, is not a privilege.
The cost of an uneducated or undereducated community is catastrophic. Now, what you're describing is an issue (and I take you at your word) where a group of individuals are making decisions with impunity. This belief, this behavior is not consistent with the hopes and dreams and attitudes of African Americans, nor with any group of "minorities" that I've come to know. You're watching a group of black, inner city families rising to the opportunity to have their children educated.
The second thing is that you've somehow lumped the most egregious activities of individuals and put the liberal name on it as if conservatives have the moral high ground. I'm sorry to inform but morality is not a conservative pedigree. There are ethical issues here, there are racial overtones here and there are class issues here, as well. When you making broad sweeping generalizations about people of a different political focus, you rob yourself of an kind of credibility.
We on the other end of the political aisle have enough respect for you not to attempt to tell you how to live your life. But, somehow, conservatives feel as if they are ordained to preach morality from the mountaintop.
I'm understanding your position, but your vocality reveals something a lot more intimately disingenuous than what you're admitting to.
We do not need "red state" republicans telling us how to live. That is immoral and it is idolatrous.
@ArtLoversStudio18 I've never told someone else how to live, nor did I mention morality. I have, however, managed to protect my children from drones who want to keep them from learning. The school system I mentioned was in Portland, OR. The people pushing for school choice and teacher accountability were conservatives. The people calling them Racist for it were liberals. Very consistent, very predictable.
Imagine what would have happened if Westside Prep had become the norm instead...
@ArtLoversStudio18 And before you call me a racist for mentioning the student population's racial breakdown, know this. When I researched the situation, I found that the schools had been focusing on Standard English and high expectations until the leader of the local black advocacy group put pressure on them to lower standards. SE is racist, he stated, because it robs children of their identity. I told the principal that keeping blacks ignorant was a crime.
@ArtLoversStudio18 Who blocks school choice measures at every turn? I never said that blacks don't care about education, but that Libs assume that they can't achieve without government handouts.
@mssrus I think you need to watch this video and the 1st interview done by Mr. Safer and Ms. Collins because you obviously missed the part where the school was being funded, in large part, by grants from the Federal Government. And, as far as, "handouts" are concerned, whose money is it anyway? And, where did this money come from? The taxpayers. The same people who work these dead-end jobs and get little political representation.
@ArtLoversStudio18 The school had most of its money from private sources, and Mrs. Collins procured some government grants. Most of the opposition she endured was from public sector unions and local government, trying relentlessly to shut her down. How dare she prove them wrong!
In my earlier comment, I should have been more precise. Libs just assume that blacks can't achieve, so they offer handouts instead. Welfare entitlements have produced 70+% illegitimacy rates.
@ArtLoversStudio18 Chicago. Who's been running the place for generations? Democrats. Why did Mrs. Collins leave? The teachers' union thugs didn't like that her students were making them look bad. I've read two biographies of this amazing woman. She embodies self-determination and upstanding character.
We don't 'champion' under-education, but we do recognize that 'Joe Sixpack', aka 'your average Joe' exists, works for a living, and doesn't like being overtaxed, lied to, or demeaned.
@ 1:22 Chillian is a friend of mine! She is now a Senior at North Carolina A&T State University TRY THAT FOR NO HARD EVIDENCE! Don't believe me Facebook Chillian P Smith !
Please tell Ms. Chillian (I love that name:) ) to stop by here and leave a comment. There are several thousand people around the world that is interested in hearing a testimony from any of Ms. Collins' students.
you know what, the last thing these brothers and sisters should have done was to invite that snake come down to see proof. Let him continue to propagate his lies and satanic foolishness, and let us continue to do what we do!!!!
You know I came across all this information back in the 1990s, when we were having this internet conversation, without the benefit of the Human Genome Project. But even then, it was clear that Murray was selectively quoting evidence, using specific researchers (Lynn) and misrepresenting survey types (he represented aptitude tests as IQ tests, for instance).
Please google: pbs lewontin race
The article is Race: The Power Of An Illusion, from the PBS website.
I'm going to do just that. Today is Monday...I'll grab the information read it by Wednesday and get back to you. This is extremely important information.
Thanks for your contributions. If you find more related info, feel free to post it here. I'll adjust the video header with that corresponding information soon.
That's great. These are truly the discoveries of our time and our generation.
You should also check out the late Stephen Jay Gould's "Mismeasure Of Man", which he specifically re-released to deal with The Bell Curve, and Murray's dubious treatment of evidence.
I don't want to overwhelm you with stuff. :) However, I have been collecting data on this since 1995, and there are posting constraints on Youtube.
I emailed with the BBC's science correspondent Pallab Gosh on this issue at the time, because he was really taking with The Bell Curve at the time. He even tried to use an appeal to authority (they're really smart) argument on me.
Charles F. Murray was a charlatan then , as he his now. He avoided peer review, his methods were cooked (google Nicholas Lemann's article: "The Bell Curve Flattened").
And that was before the Human Genome Project decisively proved that there are no human races, because there is not enough genetic diversity to speak of such (there were hints from dr. Richard Lewontin's work on blood group variation in the 1970s, but PCR testing drove in the final nail).
I don't know if most people understand the imporance of the multi-regional theory of human evolution to scientific racism. The belief was that human races evolved out of separate homonid populations across the world, and therefore there was a huge variation in behavior, genetics, etc., almost to the point of races being different species.
The genome project and Lewontin proved that there is very little genetic variation (6-8) between and within phenotypic races (black-white-asian), which proves a very recent, and common origin, 200,000 years ago, with people moving out of Africa 60,000 years ago.
So Murray, Lynn, Rushton, etc. have become scientifically obsolete.
Are you talking about the interviewer, Morley or Charles Murray? I think I made a mistake in my response to you. Forgive me. I mistakenly thought you were talking about Morley!!!!!
Yes, Charles MURRAY is an ass. He's still around attempting to make a intellectual connection to racial identity.
Yes, Murray did get owned!!!! Thank you for bringing up that comment.
The last part about Erica Pace, who before attended Marva Collins' school and was told she was boarded line retarded, now graduated out of college as Suma Cum Laude! That is an inspiration! She reminds me of myself as a special ed student, and now a college graduate with a 3.0 GPA last year!
I am shocked that they shut that school down too. Thanks to the financial situation, and also thanks to the economic recession. It is very sad, but I hope that President Obama addressing the country about kids staying in school, can motivate some students to learn and work hard.
Lol, I'm in this video. Being a part of this school was magnificent. I appreciate everything that I have received from my experience at Westside Prep.
Wonderful! Why don't you tell us more about Ms. Collins, her children, the school. There are so many people who love her and want to know how your experiences there influenced your life.
Wow, they are not dead, in prison, or on welfare. The teaching is great, and certain kids absorb well.
But seriously, some people are plain stupid. Just because somebody called you stupid, and you proved them wrong, doesn't mean that there are no stupid people. Just because someone said that I would never dunk a basketball, and one day I did, doesn't mean that everyone can dunk.
That's not how it works, what a horrible argument by these people. Absorbing and thinking are different.
OffTheGlass87 1 month ago
@OffTheGlass87 No, you're dead wrong. Most people can learn (and learn how to dunk). Its def easier for some than others, but its not impossible for anyone with lots of gumption, imagination, and willingness to work and get help. Stupid people may arise from ignorance or lack of growth, not bc they CANT learn, they choose not to.
meb025 1 week ago
Missed words ontthis iPhone. I blamed my teacher for not teaching but I blamed myself for not knowing better. I left Chicgo in 1988 to give my son a better life away from the inner city.
cookie388 2 months ago
@cookie388
I'm so glad you shared that with us.
Congratulations, you're an inspiration.
ArtLoversStudio18 2 months ago
I grew up on the Westside of Chicago and I can attest that my elementary school wasn't the best. In the fourth grade I had a teacher that taught us absolutely nothing and when went outside for recess she would send us to the store for her. I blame her for teaching but I blame myself for being a victim and not having that will inside of me to know that I should have been in the library reading. Iive in Atlanta and I will graduate from college in June at the age of 44. All things are possible.
cookie388 2 months ago
Why invite him their he's never going to show,he don't want to see that he's trying to make his own reallity,one that base on FALSE HOOD" if he see that,he might kill himself,you know how some people are.
mrvission7 7 months ago
I was amazed at the assertion that the author of 'The Bell Curve', Charles Murray, was a Conservative. He is a Libertarian by his own description, and a Liberal elitist by his words and actions. His assumptions that lower class/lower income children are less capable of high achievement are unsupported and ridiculous. He's also written of TEA partiers as being low-IQ types, and jealous of attendees of Ivy League schools. No evidence, no confirmation, no sense.
mssrus 8 months ago
@mssrus "Liberal elitist by his words and actions" being racist is NOT liberal. Doesn't matter if one's a fiscal conservative or a social conservative, at the heart of their argument is isolation. There's nothing "liberal" or progressive about Charles Murray. Although this interview is almost 18 years old, people who espouse the views of a Charles Murray do not value human life, much less human potential.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
@ArtLoversStudio18 The Liberal concept of keeping blacks in failed schools (as Mrs. Collins commented) and expecting them to be permanent members of the dependency class, is exactly the problem. As for who values human life, look who wants unfettered access to abortion and release of dangerous criminals from 'overcrowded' prisons. Mr. Murray is no conservative. Mrs. Collins would have made a splendid Sec. of Education...she'd have done away with all the PC crap that still infests schools.
mssrus 8 months ago
@mssrus Ms. Collins was a teacher in the Chicago School system before she started her academy. Subsequently, she became the Chancellor of that same school system that she found fault with.
There are many reasons why the school system is inadequate, but it's not just low-income neighborhoods where blacks reside, it's all over. In conservative Middle America, they champion being the idea of not being educated, as your former Alaskan governor so proudly called, "Joe Sixpack."
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
And, as far as your comment about Liberals keeping Black in failed school--you're quite a bit of ways off base. If anything, the liberal intelligentsia has been fighting an uphill battle to write the wrongs of systematic and political neglect. For you to insinuate that blacks don't care about education is miss what Ms.Collins and those caring parents-- typical, I might say of most African Americans-- want so desperately for their children.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
I'd suggest to you to spend your time trying to find a solution instead of looking down your boney nose and pointing fingers at people who're actually trying to do something.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
@ArtLoversStudio18 My nose is neither bony nor uplifted. I home schooled my children during the 90s to counteract the lax standards of the local district. We were told that 'correct spelling isn't forced here, because it hinders creativity and is harmful to a child's self-esteem'. The school was majority black, reading levels were abysmal, the teacher notes were misspelled and ungrammatical, and asking for phonic instruction (what Marva Collins used) was taboo. My kids got out.
mssrus 8 months ago
@mssrus I'm beginning to understand what you want to say. I applaud you for rescuing your children. I wish other parents had the opportunity to do the same. Where I think you and I have the problem is that you're lumping many issues together.
First, we all want our kids to have the best education possible and we all (most of us) expect them to use that education to build on the things that we've taught them with the hopes of passing it along. Education, for me, is not a privilege.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
The cost of an uneducated or undereducated community is catastrophic. Now, what you're describing is an issue (and I take you at your word) where a group of individuals are making decisions with impunity. This belief, this behavior is not consistent with the hopes and dreams and attitudes of African Americans, nor with any group of "minorities" that I've come to know. You're watching a group of black, inner city families rising to the opportunity to have their children educated.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
The second thing is that you've somehow lumped the most egregious activities of individuals and put the liberal name on it as if conservatives have the moral high ground. I'm sorry to inform but morality is not a conservative pedigree. There are ethical issues here, there are racial overtones here and there are class issues here, as well. When you making broad sweeping generalizations about people of a different political focus, you rob yourself of an kind of credibility.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
We on the other end of the political aisle have enough respect for you not to attempt to tell you how to live your life. But, somehow, conservatives feel as if they are ordained to preach morality from the mountaintop.
I'm understanding your position, but your vocality reveals something a lot more intimately disingenuous than what you're admitting to.
We do not need "red state" republicans telling us how to live. That is immoral and it is idolatrous.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
@ArtLoversStudio18 I've never told someone else how to live, nor did I mention morality. I have, however, managed to protect my children from drones who want to keep them from learning. The school system I mentioned was in Portland, OR. The people pushing for school choice and teacher accountability were conservatives. The people calling them Racist for it were liberals. Very consistent, very predictable.
Imagine what would have happened if Westside Prep had become the norm instead...
mssrus 8 months ago
@mssrus "Imagine what would have happened if Westside Prep had become the norm instead..."
My thoughts exactly.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
@ArtLoversStudio18 And before you call me a racist for mentioning the student population's racial breakdown, know this. When I researched the situation, I found that the schools had been focusing on Standard English and high expectations until the leader of the local black advocacy group put pressure on them to lower standards. SE is racist, he stated, because it robs children of their identity. I told the principal that keeping blacks ignorant was a crime.
mssrus 8 months ago
@ArtLoversStudio18 Who blocks school choice measures at every turn? I never said that blacks don't care about education, but that Libs assume that they can't achieve without government handouts.
mssrus 8 months ago
@mssrus I think you need to watch this video and the 1st interview done by Mr. Safer and Ms. Collins because you obviously missed the part where the school was being funded, in large part, by grants from the Federal Government. And, as far as, "handouts" are concerned, whose money is it anyway? And, where did this money come from? The taxpayers. The same people who work these dead-end jobs and get little political representation.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
If you have a better idea on how we are to educate our children, I'd be very glad to hear it. And, my guess is so would a lot of other people.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
@ArtLoversStudio18 The school had most of its money from private sources, and Mrs. Collins procured some government grants. Most of the opposition she endured was from public sector unions and local government, trying relentlessly to shut her down. How dare she prove them wrong!
In my earlier comment, I should have been more precise. Libs just assume that blacks can't achieve, so they offer handouts instead. Welfare entitlements have produced 70+% illegitimacy rates.
mssrus 8 months ago
@ArtLoversStudio18 Chicago. Who's been running the place for generations? Democrats. Why did Mrs. Collins leave? The teachers' union thugs didn't like that her students were making them look bad. I've read two biographies of this amazing woman. She embodies self-determination and upstanding character.
We don't 'champion' under-education, but we do recognize that 'Joe Sixpack', aka 'your average Joe' exists, works for a living, and doesn't like being overtaxed, lied to, or demeaned.
mssrus 8 months ago
@ 1:22 Chillian is a friend of mine! She is now a Senior at North Carolina A&T State University TRY THAT FOR NO HARD EVIDENCE! Don't believe me Facebook Chillian P Smith !
lovelylesha 8 months ago
@lovelylesha
Please tell Ms. Chillian (I love that name:) ) to stop by here and leave a comment. There are several thousand people around the world that is interested in hearing a testimony from any of Ms. Collins' students.
ArtLoversStudio18 8 months ago
you know what, the last thing these brothers and sisters should have done was to invite that snake come down to see proof. Let him continue to propagate his lies and satanic foolishness, and let us continue to do what we do!!!!
BlacksAreBeautiful 9 months ago
Hi Andre,
You know I came across all this information back in the 1990s, when we were having this internet conversation, without the benefit of the Human Genome Project. But even then, it was clear that Murray was selectively quoting evidence, using specific researchers (Lynn) and misrepresenting survey types (he represented aptitude tests as IQ tests, for instance).
Please google: pbs lewontin race
The article is Race: The Power Of An Illusion, from the PBS website.
tigerone1970 1 year ago
@tigerone1970
I'm going to do just that. Today is Monday...I'll grab the information read it by Wednesday and get back to you. This is extremely important information.
Thanks for your contributions. If you find more related info, feel free to post it here. I'll adjust the video header with that corresponding information soon.
ArtLoversStudio18 1 year ago
@ArtLoversStudio18,
That's great. These are truly the discoveries of our time and our generation.
You should also check out the late Stephen Jay Gould's "Mismeasure Of Man", which he specifically re-released to deal with The Bell Curve, and Murray's dubious treatment of evidence.
tigerone1970 1 year ago
@tigerone1970
Got it!
ArtLoversStudio18 1 year ago
@ArtLoversStudio18
I don't want to overwhelm you with stuff. :) However, I have been collecting data on this since 1995, and there are posting constraints on Youtube.
I emailed with the BBC's science correspondent Pallab Gosh on this issue at the time, because he was really taking with The Bell Curve at the time. He even tried to use an appeal to authority (they're really smart) argument on me.
But I was right, and he was wrong.
tigerone1970 1 year ago
Charles F. Murray was a charlatan then , as he his now. He avoided peer review, his methods were cooked (google Nicholas Lemann's article: "The Bell Curve Flattened").
And that was before the Human Genome Project decisively proved that there are no human races, because there is not enough genetic diversity to speak of such (there were hints from dr. Richard Lewontin's work on blood group variation in the 1970s, but PCR testing drove in the final nail).
tigerone1970 1 year ago
I don't know if most people understand the imporance of the multi-regional theory of human evolution to scientific racism. The belief was that human races evolved out of separate homonid populations across the world, and therefore there was a huge variation in behavior, genetics, etc., almost to the point of races being different species.
tigerone1970 1 year ago
@tigerone1970
Provocative.
ArtLoversStudio18 1 year ago
The genome project and Lewontin proved that there is very little genetic variation (6-8) between and within phenotypic races (black-white-asian), which proves a very recent, and common origin, 200,000 years ago, with people moving out of Africa 60,000 years ago.
So Murray, Lynn, Rushton, etc. have become scientifically obsolete.
tigerone1970 1 year ago
@tigerone1970
I've heard a similar argument many years ago but it's been awhile since this idea has presented itself to me.
Thanks for adding to the conversation.
Andre
ArtLoversStudio18 1 year ago
@tigerone1970
Very interesting, thanks for sharing.
ArtLoversStudio18 1 year ago
This is inspiring! People dont understand how teachers in childrens life can be so important and remarkable...
va4ka 1 year ago
i like it it makes me do my work now
dest1019 2 years ago
Most definitely.
ArtLoversStudio18 2 years ago
Are you talking about the interviewer, Morley or Charles Murray? I think I made a mistake in my response to you. Forgive me. I mistakenly thought you were talking about Morley!!!!!
Yes, Charles MURRAY is an ass. He's still around attempting to make a intellectual connection to racial identity.
Yes, Murray did get owned!!!! Thank you for bringing up that comment.
Warmest regards,
Andre
ArtLoversStudio18 2 years ago
You can learn more about Miss Collins through her Power Talk Session with Anthony Robbins ...
I'm sure that you can buy or download Power Talk from somewhere ...
May ALLAAH grant you abundant blessings and peace Miss Collins, ...
XmComota 2 years ago
The last part about Erica Pace, who before attended Marva Collins' school and was told she was boarded line retarded, now graduated out of college as Suma Cum Laude! That is an inspiration! She reminds me of myself as a special ed student, and now a college graduate with a 3.0 GPA last year!
JeremyForest 2 years ago 4
i swear these kids know few things that i dont know and im doing engineering..this is amazing...
i cant belive they let that school close..people in the US are sometimes realy weird...
cool2t 2 years ago 5
I am shocked that they shut that school down too. Thanks to the financial situation, and also thanks to the economic recession. It is very sad, but I hope that President Obama addressing the country about kids staying in school, can motivate some students to learn and work hard.
JeremyForest 2 years ago
Lol, I'm in this video. Being a part of this school was magnificent. I appreciate everything that I have received from my experience at Westside Prep.
koomo202007 2 years ago
Wonderful! Why don't you tell us more about Ms. Collins, her children, the school. There are so many people who love her and want to know how your experiences there influenced your life.
ArtLoversStudio18 2 years ago
Thank you, you're most welcome.
ArtLoversStudio18 2 years ago
thanks for the video
cnrod6 2 years ago