Their father Adam - guess you believe in incest, i sure don't.
What do you mean you think more prone - I thought the Bible was clear, you are passing judgment, be careful.
Excuse me are you a shrink of any kind? If no how do you make the claims you make here?
Now you claim to know what is expectable to God - Im done on that word. You do not now Gods plan. Be very careful God knows all. I'll pray for you sir, and my God bless you.
"Are some people born gay?" Are you nuts, ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY, all males, all females, we were all born homosexual and taught by our homophobic parents to deny our true same-sex nature and live lies like they do. Why do you think the heterosexual divorce rates are so high? Nobody is happy married to the opposite sex, everyone is denying their own gay sexuality and living miserable lives together. Why do queer men and women enjoy longer relationships than heteros? I am right and you know it.
Regarding homosexuality, this antiquated concept of sin you reference is unrelated to morality. Morality has to do with out capacity for empathy, and our desire for reciprocal altruism among peers. The golden rule works; harm or maltreatment of others is immorality. Homosexuals do not engage in such harm; they are consenting adults experiencing love and companionship. Regarding sin, Sam Harris points out that crimes without victims are like debts without creditors; they do not exist.
Suicidal people would not harm others, since they desire only to die, not for someone to kill them. Masochists should not harm others, since their actions would be due to a failure of empathy; with a casual exercise of reasonableness, the masochist will know his victim wishes to avoid harm. The golden rule is a great guide, but people afflicted with psychopathic or other debilitating mental conditions may require special exceptions or treatment. Communication and study will help here.
I base the assertion upon current understandings of human nature and social interactions. Most people desire to live and let live, and to use cooperation to achieve shared goals; it works.
It is reasonable to ask why homosexuality is offensive to god. "Sovereign command" is not a reason grounded in morality; it is simple tyranny. Homosexuality is not an "attack"; it is a desire for affection between consenting adults. It results in no harm, has no victim, and thus is not unethical.
"I base the assertion upon current understandings of human nature and social interactions. Most people desire to live and let live, and to use cooperation to achieve shared goals; it works."
You speak of "most people." So you're saying that majority opinion should determine what is right and wrong? Why should a person abide by current understandings of human nature and social interactions?
"Sovereign command" is not a reason grounded in morality."
Yes it is. So you think its not reasonable that God should have the right to command us how to live? However, it seems that you believe you have the right to command how we should live. It appears you have be laying down some commands in this thread that are binding upon others. Why should people have to listen to what you say?
(I thought I posted a reply to this yesterday, but maybe server maintenance erased it)
"Sovereign command" is not morality; it is tyranny. It is a punchline, like "Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun." A relationship where the sovereign threatens to burn his servant unless the servant worships him is not "love".
I have not "laid down any commands"; people should not "have to listen to what I say". If threats of violence are required for an audience, the speech is not worth hearing.
Probably not; he seems to have a warped sense of fairness, and of good and evil in general. I think he would have considered it evil if Abraham was unable to stab and burn Isaac... There's a subjective standard for you!! If someone tries that today, we fry them. We mold our own current understanding of evil and punish it; god just put the tree there.
Evil is such a wooly word, anyway. Adrift in a tide of relativity; it never comes to rest. Yesterday's felon is tomorrow's conqueror.
It is probably my desire to not have my own child murdered, combined with my empathy for Abraham and his son, combined with cultural norms. Child murder does seem acceptable to some people, though; a girl was buried alive in Turkey last week for talking to boys.
You continuously ask me about objective standard; this seems like such an ironic thing for you to keep asking for. Do you feel like you have the objective high ground?
" Do you feel like you have the objective high ground?"
Yes, the Bible.
Yet, you don't have any objective ground to stand on so you cannot make objectively moral claims. And without an objective standard to point to, your remarks abou morality are nothing more than opinion, and as significant as what your favorite ice cream flavor is.
I had a feeling you might say that. I don't think this will lead anywhere, since God provides no foundation for objectivity. Your choice of The Bible is merely a subjective choice; other people choose the Koran, Buddha, or intuition. It was subjectively canonized, edited, and translated. Your denominational, and your personal, interpretation of the Bible is subjective. The subjective revisions of monks and editors further affected the inspired holy words of God, which are, of course, subjective.
1. No, God is an entity, like you and me. He expresses his subjective desires in The Bible, in the form of commandments (Don't use my name in vain, etc.). Such an odd thing, for an omnipotent being to desire anything at all!
2. I have read the Bible, and I've learned a bit about the canonization.
3. It does mean that christian interpretation is subjective, though.
4. Muslims reject the Sonship and the Godship of Jesus; he was a prophet to them.
"Such an odd thing, for an omnipotent being to desire anything at all!"
I don't see how you find it odd that an all powerful being would desire worship and obedience from his creatures.
" It does mean that christian interpretation is subjective, though."
Of course christians have different interpretations, but what matters is which interpretation is correct. We can determine which one is correct by carefully applying rules of interpretation etc.
Much like we are applying rules of interpretatin as we are debating each other.
"4. Muslims reject the Sonship and the Godship of Jesus; he was a prophet to them."
This demonstrates the inconsistency in the Muslim faith. For they hold to the Holy Scriptures as being inspired, but teach things that are contrary to the Bible.
I have asserted the fact that God's Word is the objective basis by which I can make moral claims. You have no such basis for any moral claims in your worldview.
If a sovereign is just, I suppose it isn't tyranny. I think morality is a means, not an end; the end is joy. If the means functions, it's objectively useful.
The rejection of the idea "might makes right" doesn't seem a bold assertion to me. If you had a gun pointed to your head and were commanded to stab and burn your child, you would likely agree that might does not make right. What WOULD be a bold assertion is if you believed the person holding the gun loves you...
This concept of being sick with sin seems unhealthy. I know it is the Christian party line, but I think you should be skeptical about it, and really ask yourself whether you are a bad person. If you are doing things wrong, correct yourself; you can do it. I am not a sick sinner; I do not lie, steal, or kill others, nor am I proud or greedy. It really is possible to live a good life, even without religion. If you feel like having a belief in a deity helps you, stick with it.
What I am saying is that it seems to me like this is obviously an issue that is afflicting you somehow...so who knows. And if you aren't then mind your own business and let people live. Like I said even if I "pretend" to not be gay like those ex-gay movements, I still am at the bottom of my heart and nothing could ever change that
Again, I have 30+ videos on other unrelated issues. In a sense, this issue afflicts me as there are people who are comfortable in a homosexual lifestyle and they need to be told the truth that they might be saved. I realize you don't think they need to be saved. I'm just explaining where I'm coming from.
Dear friend, why is it that YOU have such an interst in the subject,...hurling names like ignorant...insane...etc. at us? Is it because YOU are struggling with conviction over sin and guilt yourself? It's very easy to call us names and others like us. Earlier...you told me my comments were sooo ignorant...insane.....you said...are you gay...no. Actually, I have struggled with those desires since I was a teenager...and...have struggled against lesbian and homosexual pornography.
You speak of me as if you know ALLLL about ME...cuz I speak in condemnation of these things. THAT SIR...is ignorant and insane. Should I just give in to everything I am tempted by? My standard is the bible...and if I believe in the Christ of the bible, then I am not at liberty to pick and choose what I want to believe..thus creating a "god" after my own liking. I am saved completely by grace...and because I'm am indwelt the God's Spirit, it's impossible for me to live at ease in my sin.ANY sin.
I have been praying for you and for all people I know who need salvation. Wow...what A HATER I AM!!! I TRULY CARE THAT YOU AND OTHERS DON'T GO TO HELL!! How wretched!
We have to define our terms..what constitutes a "homosexual"? Is it someone who has had a fleeting gay desire before? Is it someone who struggles with those desires? Is it someone who has had gay sex before? Or, is it someone who lives in an unbroken, unrepentant cycle of that behavior?
To me, there's a world of difference between somone who has _____ (fill in the blank with any sin), one who struggles with ______________ (fill in the blank with any sin), and one who lives in unrepentant ______________ (fill in the blank with any sin). How can someone who is born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit continue in unrepentant sin? We all struggle with similar sins, and some have struggles unique to them and a group of others. Do we just "give" in to those?
Maybe GOD actually answered your prayer not by telling you to be gay, but to recognize your need for Him in every area of life....that the issue is not over being gay or not being gay, but that you need salvation and to be saved from hell and the power of sin. Saved people struggle with all sorts of sins...every day...hatred, lust, homosexuality, lying, etc. But,they don't LIVE in them without repenting and striving to mortify them. Perhaps God is telling you to come to HIM for salvation.
Are you "minding your own business?" I didn't realize this YOUTUBE belonged to you? Was this video initially sent to you? Did some force compel you against your will to click on this link? Did you ever consider that God is answering your prayers by bringing you to this video, not to condemn us...but to save YOU?
It is important because people are dying and going to Hell and I'm seeking to confront them with the truth that they might be saved through God's grace. And of course, ultimately, what I'm doing is to be done out of love and obedience to God.
Note that I have about 30+ videos, and only one of them is focused on homosexuality. Most of the others are directed towards christians and their faulty practices and beliefs.
Well here's the thing: even if I "pretend" to not be gay like those ex-gay movements, I still am at the bottom of my heart and nothing could ever change that...therefore I am still gay and according to you going to hell which I believe not to be true.
You don't have to pretend to be anything. God came to save sinners...not the righteous. You can be true to yourself and God that you are a homosexual...then seek forgiveness from Him and salvation...for being a SINNER FIRST. Homosexuality is a symptom of being a Sinner...and is but one outworking of it. True....unrepentant homosexuals are not going to be excluded from heaven because homosexuality is "unforgivable." Rather, it's because you can't be an unrepentant ANYTHING and be a Christian.
That is your primary issue. The reason you will not be delivered from homosexual desires is because you have yet to humble yourself and believe God at his word and flee to Christ for salvation.
Okay heres the thing. Before I came to terms with myself I prayed every day to God to change me because I was afraid I would be hated or it was "sinful" because of the family I grew up in. And you know what ...he didn't. Because I don't need to change. Because God through prayer told me that I am beautiful and don't need to change. I am a good person. I don't need to be saved. Homosexuality is natural in animals...why not natural with us.
God usually doesn't just take sinful desires away. Instead, he works through repentance where the sinner must deny themselves and struggle against their lusts. 1 Peter 2:11 "abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul..."
And they can have victory if they are born again through God's power. If you are not born again, then that is part of the reason why you are failing to achieve victory over homosexuality.
@JaguerRhye exodusinternational and other ex-gay programs DO not work. And how do I LEAVE the lifestyle....how do I leave myself? By killing myself? That is basically what you are saying. Am I not good enough to live as I am?
How do you know it doesn't work? I'm not suggesting a homosexual will never struggle again with their desires, but according to some testimonies, people can have deliverance. Did you read the testimonies on the site?
@JaguerRhye I did indeed read the testimonials. And they sound like they are either unhappy because they are single because they know they would be lying if they were in heterosexual relationships. And the ones who are in heterosexual relationships don't sound convincing. Just wondering what makes this issue of homosexuality of particular importance to yourself?
every single time homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament or Old it is done so with great condemnation and stern warning. You would think that GOD, who knows ALL things, would, after seeing the big issues we have over this topic today, put many disclaimers in the bible specifying that "some gay sex is ok," or "not all gay sex is evil." But He doesn't at all. Why? This has been a behavior that has existed since the dawn of time...why doesn't GOD EVER condone it in the bible?
If people insist that they don't have control over what they are sexually attracted to, that might be partially true. But, what if child molesters say that? Rapists? Wouldn't we expect them to control themselves regardless of what tempts them? Some might say...well...those things are different cuz people are getting hurt....no one is hurt by engaging in gay sex. Well, that is a matter of opinion...although "consentual" gay sex is not forced, it doesn't mean GOD doesn't hate it.
Number two, we have to objectively define what "hurt" means. I would imagine there are many people who have gotten AIDS accidentally (like through gay dentists or whatever). Were they NOT victims?
Three...if we truly believe in the GOD of the Bible, then HE should be the standard of what "hurts" someone. Perhaps GOD HIMSELF is grieved by homosexuality. Do we have a right to grieve our MAKER, who created male and female? Don't we belong to HIM and exist for HIS glory?
number four: monagamy is the biblical standard. God could have created 12 sexes...but He created male and female. Clearly that shows a purpose. Does God do anything randomly? How many virgins (virginity is the biblical standard prior to marriage) that get married and never cheat on their spouses contract STD's through immoral sex? The question answers itself doesn't it? The very fact that people are dying from "sex acts" should show you something is gravely wrong.
Sure they do...but do straight people who have been virgins all their lives (virginity prior to marriage is God's commandment) get any STD from sexual encounters if they have sex ONLY with their spouses? Of course not. They may get it from somone else in an accident or something. My point is...whether you are gay or straight...the only way you get STD's through sexual contact is if you are
1.) Lost your virginity outside marriage.
2.) NOT having sex with your spouse, but outside of marriage.
It's the same thing with drugs...Drugs are wicked...people get AIDS from needles right? Should I conclude that GOD hates only the manner in which I inject heroin...not the heroin use itself. If I don't use drugs I won't get AIDS through using drugs. If I remain a virgin before I get married, Ican't get AIDS from sex prior to marriage now can I? If I marry a virgin and we only have sex with one another neither one of us will get AIDS or any other STD through sexual contact now will we?
I kind of understood where you were coming from in the beginning but this is just a completely insane and idiotic comment. Gay dentists...etc. You are so ignorant to this issue. Are you gay? No. You are uneducated about the homosexual community...I know plenty of gay people (in their fifties now) that have NEVER contracted any STD or HIV.
The answer to that would be no. Could that be because this is God's design for sex? People that get STD's, gay or straight, through sex or drugs or whatever, clearly have to realize that something is wrong. Is God grieved only because of the "unprotected sex or drug act" and not the actions themselves?
I believe people are born with predispositions towards certain sins because all are born in sin. But, to be consistent...every TRUE sin, which is something GOD abhors, should be mortified. pick any sin under the sun
murder, lying, stealing, fornication, adultery, gossip, slander, covetousness, swearing, anger, bitterness, etc., if all are truly sins then they ALL should be fought against. I can't claim I was "born" a liar...murderer, rapist, gossiper...then why would I say I was born "gay"?
Because being born gay isn't a sin. It isn't a disease or illness. It is starting to be clinically shown that it is hereditary. Being gay shouldn't be negative either. So we should "fight against" homosexuality and homosexuals...a crusade...this is 2010. Most churches are saying that it is NOT a sin to be a homosexual...it gets iffy on when a homosexual acts out on it..but still it is not a sin to be gay.
No...correction...I was very nice for the majority of the conversation until I couldn't handle it any more. Do you guys realize how scary and insane all of your logic sounds to others. There are better things to do with your time and life then to call the cards on a SPECIFIC GROUP OF THE HUMAN POPULATION. There will always be gay people. Get used to it. At the end of the day when you are in bed...you answer to yourself...and God...NO ONE ELSE
To what others does our logic sound insane? You're the only one replying. Number two...we know scores of people that would find YOUR reasoning quite faulty. Are there not better things to do with YOUR time than to respond to a video that wasn't even sent to YOU specifically..and not just 'respond,' but like 15 plus times. And at the end of the day, YOU answer to God and no one else. My conscience is clean...I am a wicked sinner without Christ...struggling with all sorts of sins.
I am to consider such name calling as a blessing: Matt 5:11 Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account."
Jesus would be ashamed at people who made false judgments. Love and loving one's neighbor is the golden rule...let us not forget that...who are you...or who am I to "save someone". We aren't saving anyone...we can only save ourselves. And gay people don't need to be saved...they are going to heaven for all I know. Jesus would befriend them like he befriended the lepers and thieves.
An unrepentant homosexual will not go to Heaven. Thus says 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality."
Note that Paul points out that some of the Corinthians used to be homosexuals. For he says: 1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
It appears that you are specializing in false judgments. Are you loving your neighbor (the author of the video) by your comments? "Who are you and I to go and save someone?" Well...I would want other's to tell me the gospel so I don't go to hell. Thus, if I wanted to treat others the same way that I would want to be treated...shouldn't I preach the gospel to them?
We cannot save ourselves either....if we could Jesus would not have had to die.
I can understand where you are coming from...and I am glad you include gays in that category...because they are people too. But what I am saying about this whole thing is that I appreciate that the author of this video and some individuals feel the need to "save" others...but the way the video came about was a little nagging and disrespectful to people who might be gay. Being gay is not an addiction...its something people are born with and have to live with. Regardless if they hide it or not
I know many Christians who happen to be gay. They know that if they were to "relinquish their homosexuality" they would just be lying to themselves and what God made. So why not embrace Jesus Christ and the beautiful individual that he created? It is possible to be gay and be a Christian. Being gay is a tiny insignificant part of a person...there is so much more to someone who happens to be gay. We are made the way we are in the womb and before...and if that is gay...so be it! PRAISE JESUS.
How do you know these gay people are Christians? They call themselves that, but only God would know the truth about their Christianity right? No one but God is truly in a position to determine whether or not someone else is a Christian. In fact, many people deceive their own selves....how much more might people be mistaken about another's "christianity".
Being gay is a "tiny insignificant part of a person"...says you friend, right? What is your objective standard to determine this?
You just proved my point in your own words, "No one but God is truly in a position to determine whether or not someone else is a Christian"...just like no one...including yourself is in a position to talk about gay people in such a way or saying who needs to repent and do what. God already knows. And gay people can be Christian. Who are you to say otherwise. And you know what I am gay and I know that it is something I never chose to be...
...I also know that I am a wonderful human being who prays every day and goes to church and is faithful to God and I know others who are even more so...I do many things and have been successful numerous times in my life...being gay is a tiny and insignificant part of who I am. People love me for me and not for some trait I can't change. Are you gay sir? No. Then don't make comments about it. Cause you just sound ignorant. And you got personal.
If the Bible is fact that means that you sir are committing a mortal sin by wearing mixed colors on your clothes and eating shell fish or seafood and that a daughter should be stoned to death if she has pre-marital sex. The Bible is supposed to be open to interpretation for a REASON.
First of all...just we claim the bible is fact...doesn't mean that everything pertains to us. The Leviticus passages you are referring to were given to Israel. There is no reference made to them in the New Covenant.
Second, perhaps to GOD a daughter does DESERVE to die for comitting adultery, but mercifully choses to allow some sins to remain unpunished temporally. If all sin is an affront to the infinitely Holy God, then the fact is God should destroy us all, but He doesn't because of mercy.
Mortal sins only exist in the Catholic church and are not mentioned in the bible. I am not a Catholic. These laws are given to the Nation of Israel Only.
I believe in a God who is not filled with hatred. I believe in a God who sees the beauty in all creatures. Homosexuals are not unnatural or flawed...then that means God created a flawed specimen. God does not create flaws. Homosexuals did not choose a harder life. Why would you? They did not choose for people like yourself to be self righteous and make such statements. YOU sir are judging by what you are saying regardless of how "nicely" you think you are saying it...
"YOU sir are judging by what you are saying regardless of how "nicely" you think you are saying it... "
Jesus forbids us from making hypocritical judgements. But we are called to judge. As he says John 7:24"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
Again, you are passing judgement on me. But on what basis? On what grounds do you pass judgement on my heart?
Well...through the fall sin corrupted our natures. So...we are born in sin....because of our nature we choose to sin. Suppose I have struggles with stealing...should I say I was born a thief? NO, i should stop stealing no matter what I am tempted by...the same is true with lying, murder, gossip, etc. Name any sin...we are commanded to not commit it no matter what we are tempted by.
Okay Sir...or Mam...do you have a partner or loved one...a spouse..or have you lusted after someone or been attracted to someone and couldn't help it? Don't have relations with your spouse or loved one then. Just remain celibate for the rest of your life. I am not asking you to change who you are attracted to or have relations with. But you are to gay people. And you are covering it up with the terms "saving them". I have tried to be kind but the only person you need to save is yourself.
GOD is filled with GREAT HATRED...toward SIN. It cost HIM an infinite price in HIS SON...thus, GOD must hate sin INFINITELY. It's actually "harder" to control sin then it is to give in to it. Anybody can act out their desires.
Here is what I believe: that you are wasting your time on a topic you will NEVER be able to change. Gay people are gay...and you can never go from being gay to NOT GAY...that isn't how it works. Regardless of who we are...we all sin at points in our life. Are you seriously comparing homosexuality to Haiti...Haiti was a natural disaster...are you equating homosexuals to such a thing? You are speaking from a place of ignorance and fear in these comments...
I mentioned before that I have a friend who was formerely a gay rights activist, and is now a christian and has forsaken that former lifestyle. Other christian men have similar testimonies. Any thoughts on this?
what about the numerous people I know that were gay and now are heterosexual Christians? Tell them "that isn't how it works" ...again... by saying "you are speaking from a place of ignorance and fear in these comments" seems very judgmental for someone who doesn't judge other people. Furthermore, I'm going to assume you have never met the author of this video, no? So, to ascribe the motive of "fear" to him would seem not only judgmental but downright ignorant.
Firstly, scientists know for a fact...and you can RESEARCH this...that the ex-gay movement...where gays all of a sudden are not gay...is a joke. There are numerous stories of men saying they are not gay then they can't cover it up anymore because they are so unhappy...they never changed they just repressed their feelings. TED HAGGARD is a fine example of this. It is a shame to hide a part of you that you were born with and can't change. But you are not gay so YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THE FEELING.
"People get angry at Christians like yourselves because they don't point out the beauty in God."
Actually, I'm ultimately pointing out to people the beauty of Christ in regard to how he can save sinners from their sin so that they don't have to go to Hell.
Do you have an exhaustive knowledge of who I am and how I spend my time? How then can you assert that I don't point out to people the beauty of God? Why do you feel the need to judge me?
Okay, here is the thing. All that I am saying is what is the use of making a video like this when it is a subject that does NOT effect you. People get angry at Christians like yourselves because they don't point out the beauty in God or life but perpetuate a negative view point. I am a Catholic and have a strong relationship with God...do I judge others? No. There is no point. And saying homosexuality is an addiction is just ignorant. You are ignorant to the issue.
So are you suggesting I should only be concerned with issues that affect me? So I shouldn't care about people in Haiti because that is a subject that does not affect me?
A friend of mine used to be a gay rights activist and is now a christian. I think he would tend to side with me on this issue. As I recall, when he was gay he did research on his own and discovered the lies that he was told about homosexuality. Eventually, by the grace of God, he came out of the gay lifestyle. Other people have come out as well. They might still struggle with homosexual tendencies, but they have acknowledged their sin and fight against it.
"People get angry at Christians like yourselves because they don't point out the beauty in God or life but perpetuate a negative view point."
Negative view point? And your comments have not been negative in anyway? You are seeking to negate and contradict what I have asserted in my video. Thats negative.
People get angry at Christians like me because they love their sin and they hate the light. This is precisely what happened in the NT when christians would confront people with their sin and their need to turn to Christ. I'm simply declaring the truth. Gal 4:16 "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
B. Not all homosexuals LUST all the time...or feed into their urges.
C. Born with a prone-ness? You are born the way God makes you and gay people were born that way for a reason. No one should be put down for what they were born as.
D. Why are you perpetuating hate and judging others? At the end of the day you are the one that answers to yourself and no one else. Nobody needs to be warned.
Nothing I said was hateful. I said what I said out of love to God and to homosexuals. Its not like I'm trying to get popular by these videos, nor am I getting paid for it. Am I perpetuating hate simply by declaring that the behaviour of some is wrong? Then by your logic, you are perpetuating hate as well by attacking me for what I'm saying. Correct?
Their father Adam - guess you believe in incest, i sure don't.
What do you mean you think more prone - I thought the Bible was clear, you are passing judgment, be careful.
Excuse me are you a shrink of any kind? If no how do you make the claims you make here?
Now you claim to know what is expectable to God - Im done on that word. You do not now Gods plan. Be very careful God knows all. I'll pray for you sir, and my God bless you.
chicraig6421 8 months ago
some?
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 8 months ago
"Are some people born gay?" Are you nuts, ALL PEOPLE ARE BORN GAY, all males, all females, we were all born homosexual and taught by our homophobic parents to deny our true same-sex nature and live lies like they do. Why do you think the heterosexual divorce rates are so high? Nobody is happy married to the opposite sex, everyone is denying their own gay sexuality and living miserable lives together. Why do queer men and women enjoy longer relationships than heteros? I am right and you know it.
CorporateRule 1 year ago
JaguerRhye
Regarding homosexuality, this antiquated concept of sin you reference is unrelated to morality. Morality has to do with out capacity for empathy, and our desire for reciprocal altruism among peers. The golden rule works; harm or maltreatment of others is immorality. Homosexuals do not engage in such harm; they are consenting adults experiencing love and companionship. Regarding sin, Sam Harris points out that crimes without victims are like debts without creditors; they do not exist.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"Morality has to do with out capacity for empathy, and our desire for reciprocal altruism among peers."
On what objective foundation do you base this assertion?
"The golden rule works; harm or maltreatment of others is immorality."
And homosexuality is an offense towards God. It is an attack on his sovereignty in regard to your sexuality.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Why is it wrong for people to mistreat others? What is wrong with one man killing another man?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Mistreatment and killing of others is wrong because we would not wish to be treated that way.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"Mistreatment and killing of others is wrong because we would not wish to be treated that way."
First of all, some people are suicidal and massocistic. So is it ok for such people to harm others?
In addition, why does a person have to treat others the way they would want to be treated?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
JaguerRhye
Suicidal people would not harm others, since they desire only to die, not for someone to kill them. Masochists should not harm others, since their actions would be due to a failure of empathy; with a casual exercise of reasonableness, the masochist will know his victim wishes to avoid harm. The golden rule is a great guide, but people afflicted with psychopathic or other debilitating mental conditions may require special exceptions or treatment. Communication and study will help here.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
JaguerRhye
I base the assertion upon current understandings of human nature and social interactions. Most people desire to live and let live, and to use cooperation to achieve shared goals; it works.
It is reasonable to ask why homosexuality is offensive to god. "Sovereign command" is not a reason grounded in morality; it is simple tyranny. Homosexuality is not an "attack"; it is a desire for affection between consenting adults. It results in no harm, has no victim, and thus is not unethical.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"I base the assertion upon current understandings of human nature and social interactions. Most people desire to live and let live, and to use cooperation to achieve shared goals; it works."
You speak of "most people." So you're saying that majority opinion should determine what is right and wrong? Why should a person abide by current understandings of human nature and social interactions?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
"It is reasonable to ask why homosexuality is offensive to god."
Because God created us and He has the authority to tell us how to live.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
"Sovereign command" is not a reason grounded in morality."
Yes it is. So you think its not reasonable that God should have the right to command us how to live? However, it seems that you believe you have the right to command how we should live. It appears you have be laying down some commands in this thread that are binding upon others. Why should people have to listen to what you say?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
JaguerRhye
(I thought I posted a reply to this yesterday, but maybe server maintenance erased it)
"Sovereign command" is not morality; it is tyranny. It is a punchline, like "Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun." A relationship where the sovereign threatens to burn his servant unless the servant worships him is not "love".
I have not "laid down any commands"; people should not "have to listen to what I say". If threats of violence are required for an audience, the speech is not worth hearing.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"Sovereign command" is not morality; it is tyranny."
Do you believe this is objectively true? If so, on what basis?
"I have not "laid down any commands"; people should not "have to listen to what I say"."
But you are making pretty bold assertions are you not? Like "Sovereign command" is not morality; it is tyranny"
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
"A relationship where the sovereign threatens to burn his servant unless the servant worships him is not "love"."
Do you believe that God should punish evil?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
JaguerRhye
Probably not; he seems to have a warped sense of fairness, and of good and evil in general. I think he would have considered it evil if Abraham was unable to stab and burn Isaac... There's a subjective standard for you!! If someone tries that today, we fry them. We mold our own current understanding of evil and punish it; god just put the tree there.
Evil is such a wooly word, anyway. Adrift in a tide of relativity; it never comes to rest. Yesterday's felon is tomorrow's conqueror.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"Probably not; he seems to have a warped sense of fairness, and of good and evil in general."
By what objective standard do you claim God's sense of fairness is warped?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
It is probably my desire to not have my own child murdered, combined with my empathy for Abraham and his son, combined with cultural norms. Child murder does seem acceptable to some people, though; a girl was buried alive in Turkey last week for talking to boys.
You continuously ask me about objective standard; this seems like such an ironic thing for you to keep asking for. Do you feel like you have the objective high ground?
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
" Do you feel like you have the objective high ground?"
Yes, the Bible.
Yet, you don't have any objective ground to stand on so you cannot make objectively moral claims. And without an objective standard to point to, your remarks abou morality are nothing more than opinion, and as significant as what your favorite ice cream flavor is.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
I had a feeling you might say that. I don't think this will lead anywhere, since God provides no foundation for objectivity. Your choice of The Bible is merely a subjective choice; other people choose the Koran, Buddha, or intuition. It was subjectively canonized, edited, and translated. Your denominational, and your personal, interpretation of the Bible is subjective. The subjective revisions of monks and editors further affected the inspired holy words of God, which are, of course, subjective.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
1. God is the objective foundation for truth
2. Have you actually read the entire Bible and studied how we got the Bible we have today?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
3. The fact that christians might differ on what the Bible teaches does not imply that God's word is not an objective foundation.
4. As I recall, the Koran testifies to the truth of the Old and New Testaments and asserts their divine origin.
5. Do Buddhists claims certain writings are inspired by God?
6. You have not provided an objective basis for your moral claims.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
JaguerRhye
1. No, God is an entity, like you and me. He expresses his subjective desires in The Bible, in the form of commandments (Don't use my name in vain, etc.). Such an odd thing, for an omnipotent being to desire anything at all!
2. I have read the Bible, and I've learned a bit about the canonization.
3. It does mean that christian interpretation is subjective, though.
4. Muslims reject the Sonship and the Godship of Jesus; he was a prophet to them.
5. dunno
6. neither have you...
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"Such an odd thing, for an omnipotent being to desire anything at all!"
I don't see how you find it odd that an all powerful being would desire worship and obedience from his creatures.
" It does mean that christian interpretation is subjective, though."
Of course christians have different interpretations, but what matters is which interpretation is correct. We can determine which one is correct by carefully applying rules of interpretation etc.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Much like we are applying rules of interpretatin as we are debating each other.
"4. Muslims reject the Sonship and the Godship of Jesus; he was a prophet to them."
This demonstrates the inconsistency in the Muslim faith. For they hold to the Holy Scriptures as being inspired, but teach things that are contrary to the Bible.
I have asserted the fact that God's Word is the objective basis by which I can make moral claims. You have no such basis for any moral claims in your worldview.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Anyway, I'm taking a break from debating on this video for now.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
JaguerRhye
If a sovereign is just, I suppose it isn't tyranny. I think morality is a means, not an end; the end is joy. If the means functions, it's objectively useful.
The rejection of the idea "might makes right" doesn't seem a bold assertion to me. If you had a gun pointed to your head and were commanded to stab and burn your child, you would likely agree that might does not make right. What WOULD be a bold assertion is if you believed the person holding the gun loves you...
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"The rejection of the idea "might makes right" doesn't seem a bold assertion to me."
You are asserting that "might makes right" is wrong. What is your objective basis for such an assertion?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
JaguerRhye
This concept of being sick with sin seems unhealthy. I know it is the Christian party line, but I think you should be skeptical about it, and really ask yourself whether you are a bad person. If you are doing things wrong, correct yourself; you can do it. I am not a sick sinner; I do not lie, steal, or kill others, nor am I proud or greedy. It really is possible to live a good life, even without religion. If you feel like having a belief in a deity helps you, stick with it.
h0tsex0r 2 years ago
"It really is possible to live a good life"
What is the objective basis for determining what a good life is? Is it just based on your opinion?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Hating on myself? I might be gay? I'm really not following your line of reasoning.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
What I am saying is that it seems to me like this is obviously an issue that is afflicting you somehow...so who knows. And if you aren't then mind your own business and let people live. Like I said even if I "pretend" to not be gay like those ex-gay movements, I still am at the bottom of my heart and nothing could ever change that
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
Again, I have 30+ videos on other unrelated issues. In a sense, this issue afflicts me as there are people who are comfortable in a homosexual lifestyle and they need to be told the truth that they might be saved. I realize you don't think they need to be saved. I'm just explaining where I'm coming from.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Dear friend, why is it that YOU have such an interst in the subject,...hurling names like ignorant...insane...etc. at us? Is it because YOU are struggling with conviction over sin and guilt yourself? It's very easy to call us names and others like us. Earlier...you told me my comments were sooo ignorant...insane.....you said...are you gay...no. Actually, I have struggled with those desires since I was a teenager...and...have struggled against lesbian and homosexual pornography.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
You speak of me as if you know ALLLL about ME...cuz I speak in condemnation of these things. THAT SIR...is ignorant and insane. Should I just give in to everything I am tempted by? My standard is the bible...and if I believe in the Christ of the bible, then I am not at liberty to pick and choose what I want to believe..thus creating a "god" after my own liking. I am saved completely by grace...and because I'm am indwelt the God's Spirit, it's impossible for me to live at ease in my sin.ANY sin.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
I have been praying for you and for all people I know who need salvation. Wow...what A HATER I AM!!! I TRULY CARE THAT YOU AND OTHERS DON'T GO TO HELL!! How wretched!
We have to define our terms..what constitutes a "homosexual"? Is it someone who has had a fleeting gay desire before? Is it someone who struggles with those desires? Is it someone who has had gay sex before? Or, is it someone who lives in an unbroken, unrepentant cycle of that behavior?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
To me, there's a world of difference between somone who has _____ (fill in the blank with any sin), one who struggles with ______________ (fill in the blank with any sin), and one who lives in unrepentant ______________ (fill in the blank with any sin). How can someone who is born again and indwelt by the Holy Spirit continue in unrepentant sin? We all struggle with similar sins, and some have struggles unique to them and a group of others. Do we just "give" in to those?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Maybe GOD actually answered your prayer not by telling you to be gay, but to recognize your need for Him in every area of life....that the issue is not over being gay or not being gay, but that you need salvation and to be saved from hell and the power of sin. Saved people struggle with all sorts of sins...every day...hatred, lust, homosexuality, lying, etc. But,they don't LIVE in them without repenting and striving to mortify them. Perhaps God is telling you to come to HIM for salvation.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Are you "minding your own business?" I didn't realize this YOUTUBE belonged to you? Was this video initially sent to you? Did some force compel you against your will to click on this link? Did you ever consider that God is answering your prayers by bringing you to this video, not to condemn us...but to save YOU?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
It is important because people are dying and going to Hell and I'm seeking to confront them with the truth that they might be saved through God's grace. And of course, ultimately, what I'm doing is to be done out of love and obedience to God.
Note that I have about 30+ videos, and only one of them is focused on homosexuality. Most of the others are directed towards christians and their faulty practices and beliefs.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Well here's the thing: even if I "pretend" to not be gay like those ex-gay movements, I still am at the bottom of my heart and nothing could ever change that...therefore I am still gay and according to you going to hell which I believe not to be true.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
You are headed for Hell because you don't acknowledge your need to be saved from your sin by fleeing to Christ for salvation.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
You don't have to pretend to be anything. God came to save sinners...not the righteous. You can be true to yourself and God that you are a homosexual...then seek forgiveness from Him and salvation...for being a SINNER FIRST. Homosexuality is a symptom of being a Sinner...and is but one outworking of it. True....unrepentant homosexuals are not going to be excluded from heaven because homosexuality is "unforgivable." Rather, it's because you can't be an unrepentant ANYTHING and be a Christian.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
That is your primary issue. The reason you will not be delivered from homosexual desires is because you have yet to humble yourself and believe God at his word and flee to Christ for salvation.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
If you desire help in leaving the homosexual lifestyle and/or desire to read testimonies of former homosexuals please visit exodusinternationalorg
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Okay heres the thing. Before I came to terms with myself I prayed every day to God to change me because I was afraid I would be hated or it was "sinful" because of the family I grew up in. And you know what ...he didn't. Because I don't need to change. Because God through prayer told me that I am beautiful and don't need to change. I am a good person. I don't need to be saved. Homosexuality is natural in animals...why not natural with us.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
God usually doesn't just take sinful desires away. Instead, he works through repentance where the sinner must deny themselves and struggle against their lusts. 1 Peter 2:11 "abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul..."
And they can have victory if they are born again through God's power. If you are not born again, then that is part of the reason why you are failing to achieve victory over homosexuality.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
@JaguerRhye exodusinternational and other ex-gay programs DO not work. And how do I LEAVE the lifestyle....how do I leave myself? By killing myself? That is basically what you are saying. Am I not good enough to live as I am?
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
How do you know it doesn't work? I'm not suggesting a homosexual will never struggle again with their desires, but according to some testimonies, people can have deliverance. Did you read the testimonies on the site?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
@JaguerRhye I did indeed read the testimonials. And they sound like they are either unhappy because they are single because they know they would be lying if they were in heterosexual relationships. And the ones who are in heterosexual relationships don't sound convincing. Just wondering what makes this issue of homosexuality of particular importance to yourself?
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
So you don't believe you need to be saved from your sin through faith in Christ?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
every single time homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament or Old it is done so with great condemnation and stern warning. You would think that GOD, who knows ALL things, would, after seeing the big issues we have over this topic today, put many disclaimers in the bible specifying that "some gay sex is ok," or "not all gay sex is evil." But He doesn't at all. Why? This has been a behavior that has existed since the dawn of time...why doesn't GOD EVER condone it in the bible?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
If people insist that they don't have control over what they are sexually attracted to, that might be partially true. But, what if child molesters say that? Rapists? Wouldn't we expect them to control themselves regardless of what tempts them? Some might say...well...those things are different cuz people are getting hurt....no one is hurt by engaging in gay sex. Well, that is a matter of opinion...although "consentual" gay sex is not forced, it doesn't mean GOD doesn't hate it.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Number two, we have to objectively define what "hurt" means. I would imagine there are many people who have gotten AIDS accidentally (like through gay dentists or whatever). Were they NOT victims?
Three...if we truly believe in the GOD of the Bible, then HE should be the standard of what "hurts" someone. Perhaps GOD HIMSELF is grieved by homosexuality. Do we have a right to grieve our MAKER, who created male and female? Don't we belong to HIM and exist for HIS glory?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
number four: monagamy is the biblical standard. God could have created 12 sexes...but He created male and female. Clearly that shows a purpose. Does God do anything randomly? How many virgins (virginity is the biblical standard prior to marriage) that get married and never cheat on their spouses contract STD's through immoral sex? The question answers itself doesn't it? The very fact that people are dying from "sex acts" should show you something is gravely wrong.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Straight people die from straight acts all the time: Africa.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
Sure they do...but do straight people who have been virgins all their lives (virginity prior to marriage is God's commandment) get any STD from sexual encounters if they have sex ONLY with their spouses? Of course not. They may get it from somone else in an accident or something. My point is...whether you are gay or straight...the only way you get STD's through sexual contact is if you are
1.) Lost your virginity outside marriage.
2.) NOT having sex with your spouse, but outside of marriage.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
It's the same thing with drugs...Drugs are wicked...people get AIDS from needles right? Should I conclude that GOD hates only the manner in which I inject heroin...not the heroin use itself. If I don't use drugs I won't get AIDS through using drugs. If I remain a virgin before I get married, Ican't get AIDS from sex prior to marriage now can I? If I marry a virgin and we only have sex with one another neither one of us will get AIDS or any other STD through sexual contact now will we?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
I kind of understood where you were coming from in the beginning but this is just a completely insane and idiotic comment. Gay dentists...etc. You are so ignorant to this issue. Are you gay? No. You are uneducated about the homosexual community...I know plenty of gay people (in their fifties now) that have NEVER contracted any STD or HIV.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
Do you know ANY heterosexuals who have remained monogomous during marriage and who were virgins prior to, who have contracted AIDS through sex?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
The answer to that would be no. Could that be because this is God's design for sex? People that get STD's, gay or straight, through sex or drugs or whatever, clearly have to realize that something is wrong. Is God grieved only because of the "unprotected sex or drug act" and not the actions themselves?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
I believe people are born with predispositions towards certain sins because all are born in sin. But, to be consistent...every TRUE sin, which is something GOD abhors, should be mortified. pick any sin under the sun
murder, lying, stealing, fornication, adultery, gossip, slander, covetousness, swearing, anger, bitterness, etc., if all are truly sins then they ALL should be fought against. I can't claim I was "born" a liar...murderer, rapist, gossiper...then why would I say I was born "gay"?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Because being born gay isn't a sin. It isn't a disease or illness. It is starting to be clinically shown that it is hereditary. Being gay shouldn't be negative either. So we should "fight against" homosexuality and homosexuals...a crusade...this is 2010. Most churches are saying that it is NOT a sin to be a homosexual...it gets iffy on when a homosexual acts out on it..but still it is not a sin to be gay.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
And I'm not interested in continuing a conversation with an ignorant bigot.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
"And I'm not interested in continuing a conversation with an ignorant bigot. "
That sounds pretty judgemental to me.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Wow...I'm sure Jesus would call people ignorant bigots...especially those who are trying to defend HIS words in a kind manner.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
whenenver people resort to name-calling...it's clear they have no grounds to defend their positions. So...they hurl stones in a cowardly fashion.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
No...correction...I was very nice for the majority of the conversation until I couldn't handle it any more. Do you guys realize how scary and insane all of your logic sounds to others. There are better things to do with your time and life then to call the cards on a SPECIFIC GROUP OF THE HUMAN POPULATION. There will always be gay people. Get used to it. At the end of the day when you are in bed...you answer to yourself...and God...NO ONE ELSE
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
To what others does our logic sound insane? You're the only one replying. Number two...we know scores of people that would find YOUR reasoning quite faulty. Are there not better things to do with YOUR time than to respond to a video that wasn't even sent to YOU specifically..and not just 'respond,' but like 15 plus times. And at the end of the day, YOU answer to God and no one else. My conscience is clean...I am a wicked sinner without Christ...struggling with all sorts of sins.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
I am to consider such name calling as a blessing: Matt 5:11 Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account."
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
true...my friend...you are storing up treasures in heaven.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Jesus would be ashamed at people who made false judgments. Love and loving one's neighbor is the golden rule...let us not forget that...who are you...or who am I to "save someone". We aren't saving anyone...we can only save ourselves. And gay people don't need to be saved...they are going to heaven for all I know. Jesus would befriend them like he befriended the lepers and thieves.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
Where do you learn about this Jesus you speak of? Jesus befriended an adulteress at one point, but he also told her to go and sin no more.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
An unrepentant homosexual will not go to Heaven. Thus says 1 Corinthians 6:9 "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality."
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Note that Paul points out that some of the Corinthians used to be homosexuals. For he says: 1 Cor 6:11 "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
@BLAHBLAH111188 - Since you seem to reject the Bible as God's word, I'm really not interested in continuing this dialogue.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
It appears that you are specializing in false judgments. Are you loving your neighbor (the author of the video) by your comments? "Who are you and I to go and save someone?" Well...I would want other's to tell me the gospel so I don't go to hell. Thus, if I wanted to treat others the same way that I would want to be treated...shouldn't I preach the gospel to them?
We cannot save ourselves either....if we could Jesus would not have had to die.
Everyone needs salvation...gays too.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
I can understand where you are coming from...and I am glad you include gays in that category...because they are people too. But what I am saying about this whole thing is that I appreciate that the author of this video and some individuals feel the need to "save" others...but the way the video came about was a little nagging and disrespectful to people who might be gay. Being gay is not an addiction...its something people are born with and have to live with. Regardless if they hide it or not
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
Yes...he befriended lepers...and told them to repent and believe.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
I know many Christians who happen to be gay. They know that if they were to "relinquish their homosexuality" they would just be lying to themselves and what God made. So why not embrace Jesus Christ and the beautiful individual that he created? It is possible to be gay and be a Christian. Being gay is a tiny insignificant part of a person...there is so much more to someone who happens to be gay. We are made the way we are in the womb and before...and if that is gay...so be it! PRAISE JESUS.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
How do you know these gay people are Christians? They call themselves that, but only God would know the truth about their Christianity right? No one but God is truly in a position to determine whether or not someone else is a Christian. In fact, many people deceive their own selves....how much more might people be mistaken about another's "christianity".
Being gay is a "tiny insignificant part of a person"...says you friend, right? What is your objective standard to determine this?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
You just proved my point in your own words, "No one but God is truly in a position to determine whether or not someone else is a Christian"...just like no one...including yourself is in a position to talk about gay people in such a way or saying who needs to repent and do what. God already knows. And gay people can be Christian. Who are you to say otherwise. And you know what I am gay and I know that it is something I never chose to be...
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
...I also know that I am a wonderful human being who prays every day and goes to church and is faithful to God and I know others who are even more so...I do many things and have been successful numerous times in my life...being gay is a tiny and insignificant part of who I am. People love me for me and not for some trait I can't change. Are you gay sir? No. Then don't make comments about it. Cause you just sound ignorant. And you got personal.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
The psalms say that people go astray from the womb. In Psalm 51 David said he was conceived in sin...that is...with the sin nature.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
If the Bible is fact that means that you sir are committing a mortal sin by wearing mixed colors on your clothes and eating shell fish or seafood and that a daughter should be stoned to death if she has pre-marital sex. The Bible is supposed to be open to interpretation for a REASON.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
Those laws you speak of were for the theocracy of Israel and are not binding on christians today.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
First of all...just we claim the bible is fact...doesn't mean that everything pertains to us. The Leviticus passages you are referring to were given to Israel. There is no reference made to them in the New Covenant.
Second, perhaps to GOD a daughter does DESERVE to die for comitting adultery, but mercifully choses to allow some sins to remain unpunished temporally. If all sin is an affront to the infinitely Holy God, then the fact is God should destroy us all, but He doesn't because of mercy.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Mortal sins only exist in the Catholic church and are not mentioned in the bible. I am not a Catholic. These laws are given to the Nation of Israel Only.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
I believe in a God who is not filled with hatred. I believe in a God who sees the beauty in all creatures. Homosexuals are not unnatural or flawed...then that means God created a flawed specimen. God does not create flaws. Homosexuals did not choose a harder life. Why would you? They did not choose for people like yourself to be self righteous and make such statements. YOU sir are judging by what you are saying regardless of how "nicely" you think you are saying it...
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
"YOU sir are judging by what you are saying regardless of how "nicely" you think you are saying it... "
Jesus forbids us from making hypocritical judgements. But we are called to judge. As he says John 7:24"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment."
Again, you are passing judgement on me. But on what basis? On what grounds do you pass judgement on my heart?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Well...through the fall sin corrupted our natures. So...we are born in sin....because of our nature we choose to sin. Suppose I have struggles with stealing...should I say I was born a thief? NO, i should stop stealing no matter what I am tempted by...the same is true with lying, murder, gossip, etc. Name any sin...we are commanded to not commit it no matter what we are tempted by.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Okay Sir...or Mam...do you have a partner or loved one...a spouse..or have you lusted after someone or been attracted to someone and couldn't help it? Don't have relations with your spouse or loved one then. Just remain celibate for the rest of your life. I am not asking you to change who you are attracted to or have relations with. But you are to gay people. And you are covering it up with the terms "saving them". I have tried to be kind but the only person you need to save is yourself.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
GOD is filled with GREAT HATRED...toward SIN. It cost HIM an infinite price in HIS SON...thus, GOD must hate sin INFINITELY. It's actually "harder" to control sin then it is to give in to it. Anybody can act out their desires.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Here is what I believe: that you are wasting your time on a topic you will NEVER be able to change. Gay people are gay...and you can never go from being gay to NOT GAY...that isn't how it works. Regardless of who we are...we all sin at points in our life. Are you seriously comparing homosexuality to Haiti...Haiti was a natural disaster...are you equating homosexuals to such a thing? You are speaking from a place of ignorance and fear in these comments...
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
I mentioned before that I have a friend who was formerely a gay rights activist, and is now a christian and has forsaken that former lifestyle. Other christian men have similar testimonies. Any thoughts on this?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
what about the numerous people I know that were gay and now are heterosexual Christians? Tell them "that isn't how it works" ...again... by saying "you are speaking from a place of ignorance and fear in these comments" seems very judgmental for someone who doesn't judge other people. Furthermore, I'm going to assume you have never met the author of this video, no? So, to ascribe the motive of "fear" to him would seem not only judgmental but downright ignorant.
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
Firstly, scientists know for a fact...and you can RESEARCH this...that the ex-gay movement...where gays all of a sudden are not gay...is a joke. There are numerous stories of men saying they are not gay then they can't cover it up anymore because they are so unhappy...they never changed they just repressed their feelings. TED HAGGARD is a fine example of this. It is a shame to hide a part of you that you were born with and can't change. But you are not gay so YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THE FEELING.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
"People get angry at Christians like yourselves because they don't point out the beauty in God."
Actually, I'm ultimately pointing out to people the beauty of Christ in regard to how he can save sinners from their sin so that they don't have to go to Hell.
Do you have an exhaustive knowledge of who I am and how I spend my time? How then can you assert that I don't point out to people the beauty of God? Why do you feel the need to judge me?
Do you believe the Bible is God's word?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
Okay, here is the thing. All that I am saying is what is the use of making a video like this when it is a subject that does NOT effect you. People get angry at Christians like yourselves because they don't point out the beauty in God or life but perpetuate a negative view point. I am a Catholic and have a strong relationship with God...do I judge others? No. There is no point. And saying homosexuality is an addiction is just ignorant. You are ignorant to the issue.
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
So are you suggesting I should only be concerned with issues that affect me? So I shouldn't care about people in Haiti because that is a subject that does not affect me?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
A friend of mine used to be a gay rights activist and is now a christian. I think he would tend to side with me on this issue. As I recall, when he was gay he did research on his own and discovered the lies that he was told about homosexuality. Eventually, by the grace of God, he came out of the gay lifestyle. Other people have come out as well. They might still struggle with homosexual tendencies, but they have acknowledged their sin and fight against it.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
"People get angry at Christians like yourselves because they don't point out the beauty in God or life but perpetuate a negative view point."
Negative view point? And your comments have not been negative in anyway? You are seeking to negate and contradict what I have asserted in my video. Thats negative.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
People get angry at Christians like me because they love their sin and they hate the light. This is precisely what happened in the NT when christians would confront people with their sin and their need to turn to Christ. I'm simply declaring the truth. Gal 4:16 "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?"
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
For "not juding others..." you certainly seem to be judging the author of this video harshly.
-He's "not pointing out the beauty of God or life
-He's perpetuating a negative viewpoint
-saying homosexuality is an addiction is just ignorant.
-you are ignorant to the issuse
Wow...how is it that you don't judge others? your entire passage is one big judgment on this person sir.
Without answering a question with a question, what standard are you referring to when you call HIM ignorant?
SolusChristus924 2 years ago
"Not all homosexuals LUST all the time...or feed into their urges. "
I never claimed homosexuals lust all the time.
"Homosexuality is an addiction?"
Yes.
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
A. Homosexuality is an addiction?
B. Not all homosexuals LUST all the time...or feed into their urges.
C. Born with a prone-ness? You are born the way God makes you and gay people were born that way for a reason. No one should be put down for what they were born as.
D. Why are you perpetuating hate and judging others? At the end of the day you are the one that answers to yourself and no one else. Nobody needs to be warned.
E. Perhaps you are hating on yourself?
BLAHBLAH111188 2 years ago
Are you not judging me with your words?
What gives you the right to dictate how I should think and act? On what basis do you criticize me?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago
"Why are you perpetuating hate...?"
Nothing I said was hateful. I said what I said out of love to God and to homosexuals. Its not like I'm trying to get popular by these videos, nor am I getting paid for it. Am I perpetuating hate simply by declaring that the behaviour of some is wrong? Then by your logic, you are perpetuating hate as well by attacking me for what I'm saying. Correct?
JaguerRhye 2 years ago