continued .... he is not privileged or spoilt and will take that attitude with him when he goes .Yes it could be more democratic than it is now , but its children like mine that will continue to effect that change . ( ps ...If he grows up into a spoiled elitist snob I never said any of this ...right ? )
Eton is changing ...my son has just won a full scholarship there on his merit and ability . There's no way we could afford the fees . He's had 13 years of a "normal " education ( you know , poor teaching standards , large class sizes , lack of recognition or ability to foster his desire to learn,made fun of because he has a Kindle rather than a PSP ) , and although his present classmates might think of him as posh ( i.e likes to read books and learn stuff ) ,...
id rather be a rich smarmy eton boy whos going to run the country and quaff champagne and cigars on the reg than some grimy working class person living in a council house
I can't believe the bullshit people say about Etonians. You saw the kids passing by, those are students if you hadn't noticed. Also, it's not for toffs, you're mistaken. People get in because they are intelligent, not because they 'know people'. I know Etonians, far more than i suspect you do, and believe me, none of them are posh. I'm tired of
@OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth Maybe they aren't posh and there is certainly nothing wrong with any boy just because he happens to go to Eton. The point people are making is that it is currently 30,000 pounds a year to attend Eton. There are scholarships, but the majority of students are paying students. So Eton attendance is very much determined by social class, and maintains the class system because Eton graduates are more likely to go to the top universities as well. Also. No girls?!!
@Bregowald Again, like I said above (please read correctly), there is nothing wrong with being posh. There is nothing wrong with a kid just because he goes to Eton. There is, however, something wrong with Eton itself. It IS 30,000 pounds a year to go there, and although there are a few scholarships, it would be pretence to say that it's not a school for the privileged (and only for boys).
@Bregowald How is that good?? Do you honestly believe it's fair that kids, who haven't really done anything to deserve it other than having rich parents who put them down for the school years before, get more chances than everyone else? Being rich doesn't make anyone a better or more competent person. Educational opportunities should be fairly distributed throughout society, or at least based on aptitude.
@Bregowald Of course future Etonians also take admissions tests, I'm not denying that. But the only reason MOST (excluding those on a scholarship) even get to take these tests is because their parents would have the money to put them in that school. That's nothing to be proud of. It just maintains an elitist, anachronistic system of passing on power from generation to generation. It's completely inconsistent with societal aims of establishing greater equality.
@Bregowald That's either a very ignorant or just a very snobbish statement.Shouldn't achievement be based on ability, rather than wealth?And how is it desirable to have people in a position of power (and education makes this more likely),making important decisions about other people's lives, when they have never truly lived what most would consider a "normal" life? I don't want these people deciding, for example, how much a minimum wage should be, orwhether to fire people to "optimise" business.
@Bregowald Living in an all-boys school secluded from the world doesn't make anyone more competent at life,or more suited to occupational positions with decision power.It's one thing to be selective,but "wealth" is hardly a good selection criteria as it doesn't tell you anything about the person,other than that they have been privileged.And no,don't ask again,this isn't jealousy.I hold a Master's degree in my chosen profession,and I haven't been unfortunate enough to experience true deprivation.
@Bregowald The original idea when Eton was founded centuries ago was to allow commoners of potential to have an education to later include them in government. This was a very modern idea for the day and age. This was how it started with the "King's scholars". Today, this isn't true for most of Eton's students. Eton therefore fails to live up to its own ideal.
@Chocolateluvr1987 Secondly, as a disproportionate number of Oxford/Cambridge students come from Eton, and they are the most renowned English universities, it gives Etonians an unfair advantage based on the fact that most had parents who were able to pay 30,000 a year. It therefore maintains an unequal class society, keeping those from advantaged backgrounds in a position of power. Eton was founded centuries ago for the purpose of getting "commoners" into positions of power.
@OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth Well SOME of them are. It's ridiculous to suggest that no public schoolboys are posh. Having just finished at a top public school I can tell you that most of the country would say that my friends are 'posh', even though I'm saved from that with my brown skin.
This school is for rich kids who will get on in life not becauseof what they know but because who they know. The old school tie will look after them as it did their parents and thier parents. From Eton they go on to Ox aand Cam and the LSE. and then on to Westninster.Iit's all a crying shame!
How prejudiced and ignorant you are. I go to Eton and I guarantee everyone deseves their place. Get on in life because of who we know? So we don't have to work? Seriously every boy achieves 8*+ for a reason, because they WORK. Also, we give the most bursaries out of any major public school. Only about 50% go to 'Oxbridge', get your facts straight before you insult 'Etonians' as a concept. But hey, continue your bitter, jealous tirade if it makes you feel more adequate!
Also, it is people like you who make going to Eton a hindrance rather than a blessing. Honestly how can you tell me that my 11A*s are through family connections. Don't get your facts from tabloids and documentaries, don't stereotype and then discriminate against a school you know little about. Class means nothing in today's world and if you think it does you clearly need to open your eyes. Indeed, correct your grammar if you are making a case we are 'rich' and spoilt.
Lastly, if you had provenance for this video you would realise this is taken from Eton Action fair, an event set up solely for charity where 1350 boys slave away to try and aid society. Neither of my parents went to Eton, you have such an ignorant, misplaced notion. Visit the school and speak to the boys and then you will revise your opinion. Don't make assumptions based on loose knowledge. In fact this video is the opposite to a 'crying shame', we were raising money for charity
@aMasterfulMelon The truth hurts that is why you are so upset about my comments. You live in a dream world of your own making. The Bank of Mum and Dad pays your fees of around £30000 to go to Eaton plus extras. The College is based on social class and money. That is a fact! Eaton is " The chief nurse of English statesman" . Our PM went to Eaton and many of his Cabinet also. The Old School Tie is alive in Westminster and in The City of London. It's a crying shame!
If you want to call it an anachronism, at least spell the school you seem to detest so much, its 'Eton'. To be absolutely honest I'm not upset, I was angry at your prejudice. My parents don't pay 30,000 i have a bursary due to the wonderful school providing. Perhpas Etonians are in positions of pwer due to intelligence and talent as well as connections. If you want to be a 56 year old, depressed, bitter welshman, I sincerely wish you the best and hope your ignorance is bliss.
Re public/private: in England, education was originally the preserve of the royals and very wealthy. 'Public schools' were created to allow other boys to be educated, with a view that they would then go on to do work for the good of the public. Hence, this reason for the schools to be called 'public'. These very old, long-established schools such as Eton, Harrow, Westminster etc are technically 'private' but are still referred to as 'public' as this was their purpose when they were first built.
Why are so many people calling private schools public?
Private schools are private. They are not state funded. They are independent. You can only get in, if you have the money.
Public schools are state run ie: public. These are entirely state funded, and dependent on the taxpayer. Different schools will have different entry requirements
@waqasahmed939 You clearly don't live in England. Let me explain it to you. This is not meant to sound patronising, so don't take it like that. In America, public schools are paid for by the taxpayer and private schools by the pupil/pupil's parents/scholarship fund. In England, state schools are paid for by the govenrment and divided into primary and secondary. Private schools are paid for by the pupil etc, and divided into prep(aratory) and public schools. Prep school goes to 13, public to 18
Actually I do. I assumed that state and public is the same thing, as thats what public implies, but thanks for letting me know that the private schools are actually public schools in the further years
@waqasahmed939 Oh. Sorry about that. I can't really assume something like that, can I? It's just a presumption I made. But yes, Public is a type of private schooling.
Officially, there are no longer grammar schools in the UK, however lots of grammar schools have kept the title to show the levels of academia one would expect.
I went to a state "grammar" school, and quite frankly schools that had the grammar title in my area(Yorkshire) performed far, far better than other schools
I think this year in terms of A levels, once failed but now very good Dixons, and Skipton Grammar beat our school in the whole of Yorkshire.
It is not beneficial for the government to tax public schools, since it would reduce the number of people attending them. This is a serious issue, because it means that the government must spend a lot more money educating more people. Consequently, for most governments in the world, their aim is to maximise the number of people attending public schools, as it reduces the amount of money that they need to spend educating students.
@SquarecutK To end this "debate" once and for all:
Disband the public school system so we all have a level playing field. Stop the loop holes in the tax system that are exploited by the rich. Use the revenue raised to create decent education for all not just those rich enough to buy it.
Impossible, unless the country becomes drastically poor. Primary schools are classed as elementary schools, and secondary schools are classed as fundamental schools.
UN Article 26:
Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
@waqasahmed939 Yes everyone has the right to an education but if you can buy a better education if you have money that is an uneven playing field and creates an elite system ( The old boy network) This means the power stays with the upper class. Look at the House of parliament it is full of public school boys. The same for banks and all big business Jobs for the boys. Keep the poor. poor and the rich rich..
You don't have to necessarily be from a rich family to start working in banks, and big business. You just need the brains. Its probably true for politicians though.
ie: I would wish to work at the big business of CISCO and it is possible
@waqasahmed939 Not to work in Banks true but look at the Chairman and traders all public school boys. You can indeed work for CISCO but if you have the right connections ie went to the right school with the directors son you will get a massive start other wise you start at the bottom and if you lucky work up. I am not bitter but my friend went to Eton then Cambridge and it is not what you know but who you know. Trust me Jobs for the boys.
@colcfc123 That would be, in general, because people are better educated at private school. That's the conclusion to draw. Considering all the positive discrimination there is towards state school children at university, that's just proof of it.
@Bigqwertyuo1 This would depend on your definition of "Better Educated" Pupils who attend prep and private schools are tutored to pass exams not to receive an rounded education. This produces good exam results to get to Oxbridge but no real understanding of the real world we live in. This the reason why so many members of parliament are so out of touch with the people they represent. Yet another reason to scrap the public school system.
@colcfc123 That would depend on your definition of "well rounded". If it includes learning how to swear badly enough to make a sailor blush, but not integral calculus, I'd take the option that includes the calculus. I am at public school, and I know that I am not receiving a poor education. I think the claim that I don't understand the world is insulting. By the time I leave, I'll have four A-levels, possibly including As and A*s in history and economics. How would I not understand the world?
@Bigqwertyuo1 I went to a state school and got 8 O-levels as it was in my time. all either grade A or B. I then went to a state school 6th form and got 4 grade A A levels including Maths and English Lit not bad for a common kid who swears enough to make a sailor Blush. I could have gone to Cambridge I passed the entrance interview but to be honest It was so public school Mummy Daddy Eton summers in South of France and daddies Bmw 5 series. bourgeois bollocks I went to Bristol. A bit better.
@colcfc123 Not at all bad. For such an intelligent person not to understand how a public school is good is surprising. But you didn't answer me. How would having an A* in both history and economics sit with not understanding the world?
@Bigqwertyuo1 Again this only my thoughts. The quality of your education is high and I am sure the A* you hope to get will serve you well. My point is the people who attend Eton are not the typical of the real world. Thismay well be my mistake. But Eton by nature is elite. No offence meant just a point of view
@Bigqwertyuo1 if you have A*'s in those subjects you most likely have an idea of the world. All of you haters are intellects who are in denial and just trying to convince yourself and others of how it's not as high as it seems. You know you would've wanted to be Elite. So stop pretending that these kids are not "truly smart" or that they're only going to get ahead in life because they "know people". Face it, you stuck up shits. You don't know each and every individual at Eton.
@Bigqwertyuo1 I will tell you why I think my education was better than yours. As I told you I did well not to blow my own trumpet I was bright and found education both fun and easy. I went to school with ordinary kids some middle class others from the local council estate. Again some good some not so good and mixed abilities some bright others not. I got a good understanding of the real world and the different types of people this has helped me. Eton is all posh privileged kids it is a bubble.
(ran out of words) .. meaning primary and secondary schools would remain free, as long as the country is relatively rich but universities can charge whatever they like
@SquarecutK It is not an assumption that public school students are elitist. It is stating the bleeding obvious. Far from being punished they are fast tracked into the Banking system the legal profession or join one of the 17 millionaires in the house of Parliament. Yeah my heart bleeds for the poor young things living off daddies trust fund made up of inherited wealth stolen from the poor over many generations. AHH bless their daddies little tax free bonus.
@Bigqwertyuo1 but you think its right the wealthy should be better educated because they have money thats what a private school is saying: you will get good gcse results if you pay money to us and if your poor then fuck off.
@iskateblueprint5 No, a private school is saying YOU buy YOUR education and if YOU work hard YOU will earn good GCSE results. It's not the fault of private schools that most decent teachers can't stand the lax standards at state schools.
As has been said, private education is a meritocracy. If you are good, you are allowed to develop to your fullest extent.
@Bigqwertyuo1 The big problem with buying an education is that the average wage is about £25.000 P.A . This is about the same as private school fees. So it creates a unfair elitist system. This can not be compared to buying the services of a taxi driver. The only way for the state system to improve is to force the rich to send their kids to the local school. Most MPs and people in power buy education so either do not care or pay lip-service to improving state schools
@Bigqwertyuo1 The definition of elitism is recourse to or advocacy of leadership or dominance by a select group. This is not allowing the best to become the best it is allowing a select few to have the chance to become the best based on money and power. You can not buy services such as private education on a low income fact. This is what makes it immoral and keeps the rich- rich and the poor- poor basic capitalism! do not educate the poor other wise we will have to share the wealth
@colcfc123 Basic capitalism is "don't let people get away with doing nothing". You cannot buy a mansion on low income. Should the state provide one? You give no reason for people not to be allowed to sell their services as a teacher to anyone, including a pupil-funded school as well as a state funded school.
Control by a select group is in fact oligarchy. Elitism is saying we make breakthroughs in science by teaching the people who are good at and motivated by it. Not those who are not.
@Bigqwertyuo1 No oligarchy is government or state governed by a small group of people. I thought you were the public school boy! If I had paid for that education I would want my money back. Elitism is leadership or dominance by a select few. Capitalism system can only exist if you have rich and poor. Example the poor by houses on mortgages the rich charge them huge interest rates then if they lose jobs cant afford payment get houses taken. Banks fuck up get nationalized no prob bonus
@gymnosophy Is it? The right to life is. Liberty. And yes, maybe a secondary human right is to an education. But I don't deny that the state should provide schools. All I say is people should be allowed to buy their own education instead. You can go to a private doctor rather than the NHS - the Govewrnment mustn't have a monopoly on a particular service.
Why, when it means that the state doesn't have to fund private schools? A tax would obviously help. We live in a capitalist economy, not a communist one
@emperorzong Then there will never be equality because, quite frankly, th Government couldn't afford Eton. It is possible to get a scholarship or a bursary - I know a boy at one of the top British public schools who doesn't pay a penny.
@TheOutcastsOfSociety No go for it !! I do not agree in private education and work in a local authority Children's Centre. I work with disadvantaged families but love the rewards it brings. Really if you feel the call go for it. Enjoy you only live once
The whole public school system is rotten to the core. It stands for snobbery and the
"old boy" network " the class system and every thing that is wrong, from the greedy bankers to the P.M . Do Not forget the poor can only be fooled by the Tory Sun for so much time. Trust me Dave is a twat and we will riot due to his cuts on services to the poor
@gymnosophy -- there is no one point of education. The acquisition of knowledge, principles & values, manners, and variety of experience is the usual main "point" of most educational institutions. These things help to prepare young persons for success in many fields or areas of life. Also, whilst criticising another person's education, it might be best to use proper grammar and spelling and to avoid spurious or stereotypical attacks.
@gymnosophy -- Thank you for proving my point. Even in quoting me, you managed to mangle spelling and mistake proper grammar for poor grammar. The addition of expletives only enhances your obvious lack of precisely what you criticise in others.
@gymnosophy -- ah, we have another educational oversight: both persons and people are correctly used as the plural of person unless it is used in a sociological or anthropological sense. Apparently, the Oxford English Dictionary went to my school and you certainly did not. As for your other statement: I'm confused. Having checked my previous posts, I spelled criticise the same way in both. At least this time, you spelled it correctly -- if only you knew if you were British or American.
@gymnosophy -- The OED lists both spelt and spelled as proper spellings for the past and past participle of the verb to spell. I presume you accept the OED as the international authority on the English language? At any rate, "spelled" is accepted both sides of the Atlantic. I have bastardized nothing. In full disclosure, I am American but attended university in England, hence I learned (also accepted "learnt," I know) how to spell rather interchangeably. What's your excuse?
@rebelyell1205 Eh little lord Fauntleroy, when someone is wrong the attack the argurer not the argument. That's something your shitty education has not revealed to you.
Now read on
........get your rich arrogant arse (ass for your spelling) back to the fundamental christian shit hole where the Nazis moved to in 1945, take your finger out your dads(pops) arse(ass/fanny, Webster's accepts both) ask him if he is really your father and say hello(hi) to your mum(mom).
@gymnosophy -- You have a good point about attacking the critic/arguer. I began my critique with a rebuttal about your statement of there being one point to education. There is one person in this "argument" who has resorted to name-calling, stereotyping, & profanity in nearly every instance, and it isn't the "rich" (I'm not), "fundamental Christian" (I'm not), "Nazi" (I'm not, and that's an oxymoron as the Nazi regime was areligious). Who looks the less educated?
@rebelyell1205 What the point of an education system is and what it really is, are two different things. If I said there was "one" point" it is for enlightenment. You'll be saying education has nothing to do with social control/indoctrination of the young/obediance.( You may have overlooked it)
Your user name made me giggle. Show me evidence of your yelling rebelion! I bet your a good boy/girl who did what he/she was told like the education system wanted of you. Arrogant undenied-noted
@gymnosophy -- I thought my original post listing the commonly stated "goals" of education acknowledged the acquisition of manners (ie social behavior patterns) as part of the package. Perhaps I was unclear, mea culpa. "arrogant undenied": well, I do like to be honest ;) You're right, I did precisely as I was told and I have a doctorate to show for it. My username, by the way, is a product of an incident involving me, rugby, and a tendency to yell ...blame my teammates for it.
@gymnosophy -- my post was in good humor. I said you were correct about something...and you're still overly hostile. Calm down, not everything is a personal attack. PS -- Howard Zinn is an idiot. Sure, it's all 'happy naked people' in N. America before Europeans. Anyone who believes that hasn't really read the history of native tribes. The only purpose to reading Zinn is to teach students to question what they read (both Zinn and what he critiqued). We digress, and I shall leave off here.
@gymnosophy What is wrong with the sentence? "If" requires the conditional of the verb "to be", which is "were" in all cases: c.p. "If only I were rich" and "If it weren't raining, I would go for a run".
By the wayside, I do debating and you can never win attacking your opponent. Leave the ad hominem out of it.
@gymnosophy Easy there boy. Lashing out is usually a sign of weakness, and that you cannot answer the point. I showed you up and you lash out in insecurity.
I have not been abused by my Tutor, no, and until you clear your head of prejudice and preconception your life is going nowhere.
Your problem with Latin? Is it the requisite academic rigour? And with wearing a jacket and tie? You put the jacket on backwards?
You have still failed to answer my grammatical point.
@gymnosophy All these comments and not one piece of logic... 'tis a cruel, cruel world indeed. Not even a half-decent rebuttal...not even a half-decent insult...*sigh* Ah, well, such is life (c'est la vie, in case you wanted the French)
And yes, I am being deliberately pretentious because it sems to get right up your nose, and that appeals to me. Ignorance should be punished.
@Bigqwertyuo1 Read boy. My argument is that Etononians are an elistist bunch. Fact. That you have to pay over 30K a year. Fact. That your "school"(Is actually a hegenomy factory) does not pay tax. Fact.
Elitist? Try denying it!
30k a year? Deny that.
Non tax paying business? Fact
At 30K a year your parents must have money to burn. It's safe to assume they are in at least the top 8% richest people(for the UK) Assume correctly or will you come back with a..."no, we are in the top 2%"
@gymnosophy I'm not actually at Eton. Why did you assume that? No, the school does not pay tax. It provides a top-class education. I would rather pay large fees for a decent public school than go to a second-rate comprehensive. At least you have snapped out of childishness, good. Now: If Eton paid taxes, at the same rate as other businesses, do you have any idea of what the fees would be like? I'm in fact nothing like in the top 8%, and an education is not "burning money". Sorry you think that.
@Bigqwertyuo1 Eton or not you defend a private school education.
The rich have the option to exploit tax free systems at the expense of people who don't or won't.
I sob for how much they would have to pay if had to pay tax.
Yes, educatction is not burning money- therefore, tax the rich to fund state education. And if the rich want to go to Swizterland and get a private education there, they know where the points of exit are.
@rebelyell1205 You make a number of good points. The acquisition of knowledge, principles & values and manners in particular, Maybe the "point" of most educational institutions. The problem with these points is that if you are in a class of 15 in a private school, quite easy really. Put the same principles in a inner city school with a class of 30 with mixed ability and social problems. I am sure it does not take a lot of thought to see what the issues are. Kids drop out join gangs So on
@Bigqwertyuo1 No prob. The worker becomes all the poorer the more wealth he produces, the more his production increases in power and range. The worker becomes an ever cheaper commodity the more commodities he creates. With the increasing value of the world of things proceeds in direct proportion to the devaluation of the world of men. Labour produces not only commodities; it produces itself and the worker as a commodity -- and does so in the proportion in which it produces commodities generally.
@colcfc123 I'm sorry, Mr Marx, your moralising makes little sense. Please. The worker becomes richer the more he works - capitalism, rewards deeds not laziness.
@Bigqwertyuo1 Sorry but it make perfect sense. I you get a Mac job paying minimum wage you hate the bastards you work for making loads of money. The worker gets fuck all and the rich man gets rich. Basic alienation of the work force. The worker feels that the company is taking the piss so has no love for his job. He will take the piss anyway he can. They cheat him he cheat them Bet you don't do a Mc job or you would not chat such shit.
@Bigqwertyuo1 Wrong try again!! Elitism- leadership or dominance by an elite group. Not advancement of the best. ( Stupid boy) Look it up in the Oxford dictionary. you got Oligarchy right 5 out of 10 not bad for a public school boy . ad hominem (well done again) But you are a fool if you think people will take cuts in services and let bankers get bonuses
@colcfc123 What the hell are you on about? Someone has already said this, but I will repeat it. If public schools were disbanded you would have to pay more tax. If everyone were state educated you would pretty much be paying the full cost of your education. Public school is what allows you to get your free education. Now stop being so ignorant. And cuts in service? What are we on about now? The fact that the Tories are reducing spending? I thought we were about education, not politics.
@Bigqwertyuo1 WHAT!!! Pupils attending public school allows people to get free education. Do you really think that the tiny amount of pupils who are lucky enough to attend public school has any real effect on the cost of state education? Gosh you call me ignorant Can I suggest you do some research into how taxes collected you will find that the rich parents who send their spoil t brats to prep then public schools are the biggest tax evaders. Like the 17 Millionaires in the house of p
@colcfc123 You pay a certain amount towards your education - assuming you're not on benefits - and if everyone attended state school you would pay the full cost - unless you/your parents are too lazy to get a well-paid job. If you are on benefits you have no right to disparage me for attending public/private school. Frankly, people who attend public school take that on their own wallets. And you don't take the cost of yours on yours.
@Bigqwertyuo1 Being lazy has little to do with getting a well paid job. The people who work the hardest in manual work often earn the least . I am lucky enough to have a good job I earn a living wage and can support my family without claiming any benefits. I have every right to disparage you/ or your parents for buying an education that most can not afford. The class system this supports is what is wrong with the world today. By design it keeps the rich - rich and the poor-poor
@colcfc123 I disagree. The fact is there is nothing wrong with allowing people to pay other people to teach them. You do it. In fact you have it done for you. If I/my parents want to take the cost of an education on themselves, that's fine. It's there choice. If I want private healthcare, I can get it (I don't, in fact. I think the NHS is adequate. But I still have the right). If I want to buy something rather than have the government buy it, I have that right.
@Bigqwertyuo1 The problem is the inequality. Just cause your parents can afford to send you to prep then public school and others can not is wrong. Because that is why the power is in the hands of the people rich enough to buy it. Look at the Parliament 11 millionaires most from public school. Who dish out cuts to the services used by the poor. The whole system is rotten to the core. The Red top papers controlled my millionaires attack people on benefits. The whole thing stinks
@colcfc123 Then what? Allow some benefits scroungers afford some house a working decent person cant afford?
I say bring the coalition government in, its wrong that a decent working person or family cant afford a house that a benefits scrounging family can afford because they get that many benefits, thats whats wrong.
I say bring this new government in and may it continue, until you learn how to afford things by your own means., not the governments!
@andrew8833 Andrew I work very hard claim no benefits I have a mortgage and two kids all supported by working hard. Why are you so angry with people on benefits? In the scheme of things they are small beer. Look the rates from the Bank of England is point 5 % do the Banks pass this on to the poor bastards with Mortgages? Do they F**k. The bankers and city workers got record bonuses this month. What about the rich who hide their money to avoid tax. I feel that is the real issue. Not the poor
@colcfc123 Most people would agree that letting someone else work for you is despicable. That is the biggest flaw in aristocracy, especially feudal aristocracy. Yet now the "scroungers" are the lower classes. Never call a Lord or a Baron a leech or a bloodsucking tick , as I am sure you would love to do, until you are off all forms of benefits.
Being able to afford something is not wrong. Is it immoral if I work hard and send my son to a good school? Of course not.
@Bigqwertyuo1 Read my comments before you send random replies. I am working on a good salary claim no benefits. My anger is not with the scrounging, inbred, toffee nosed, chinless wonders on the civil list. They are beyond contempt. My problem is with the petty bourgeoisie. Stupid fools who think they can buy their way into a class system that would not piss on them if they were on fire. You do not even know the difference between Elitism and Oligarchy. Stop being a wannabe and know u place
@colcfc123 I'm sorry - are you accusing me of trying to buy my way into the nobility? What on earth can you claim to know about me? About my life, my dreams, my desires in life, my aspirations or my ambitions? Can you even imagine how little I care about "buying my way into the class system"? Or do you just make unjustified assumptiuon after baseless accusation, all the way to your grave? How can you claim to know my place? How can you think you have the right to call me a "wannabe"?
@Bigqwertyuo1 No I just think you have your head up your bum!! and can't tell the difference between Elitism and Oligarchy. My assumption of your wannabe aspiration is based quite simply on your adamant defense of public school system that by it's nature keeps the class system in place. I hope you achieve your dreams and ambitions. Maybe you should buy the Telegraph instead of the Mail. I do not agree with a word you say but I admire your bloody mindedness.
@colcfc123 I personally buy The Times. The Mail is not serious and the Telegraph is a bit too much away from my personal taste, shall we say? My defense of a "public school system that keeps&c." is based on the fact that I believe that I have a right to buy something, namely an education. WHO buys something cannot matter. If it is OK for the government to buy it for me, it is OK for me to buy it for myself. Anything other is a dictatorship. (Also known as an oligarchy, though in a limited sense)
@Bigqwertyuo1 Well in that case you could argue that the government provides an army for defense therefore if is ok for them to provide that for you. You can form your own private army and provide them with weapons. Bit random maybe but that is how you base your argument.
@colcfc123 No, because the government can't buy ME an army - or shouldn't. They buy the country a defense force. It's not ok for me as a private individual to have an army.
@Bigqwertyuo1 But the government dose provide an army the same as it provides schools you say that if is ok or the government to buy it for you then its ok for you to buy it yourself. That is clearly not the case and the same applies for buying an eduction one is provided by the state it should be for all. The state system will never improve if the rich do not have to use it. Quite simply they could not care less about state schools because they do not have to use them
@colcfc123 Why should I put up with a substandard education? Why should I go to some shitty comprehensive? Because of your Marxist principle of equality? Grow up. I stopped whining "That's not fair" aged 5.
I suppose you deny my right to hire a doctor? Or to buy vegetables? Or hire a taxi driver? Or buy a house rather than live on a council estate?
What is your problem with the fact that I am spending money on MY education and it affects YOU not one drop?
@Bigqwertyuo1 But it does affect me because the state system will never improve while the rich do not have to use it. The Tory party Eton boys do not give a hoot about state school cause they buy better. That is wrong. It's not Whining it is stating the bleeding obvious. Even a Torie boy like you can not argue with facts.
@colcfc123 I can argue with whatever I like, including supposed facts. Why on earth should state schools not improve while the rich - for which substitute mildly well-off - do not have to use them? In any event, we had Labour for the past...what was it, oh yes, I remember. 13 years. Did they make state schooling better? Um...no. Not really. Not at all.
@Bigqwertyuo1 Of course you can argue with what ever you like. You can argue the moon is made of cream cheese and Black is white but it dose not make it right. Facts are facts.Labour did great things for education Sure Start free places for 3 year old EMA to name a few.
@colcfc123 No, the fact of the mattter does. Which means evidence. What evidence have you for the supposedly derogatory effect of private schooling on state schools?
@Bigqwertyuo1 The fact is that state schools are not used by those in power. People move (those who can) to be near a good primary school these schools do really well look at Wandsworth for a clear example. Outstanding OFSTED reports for primary . The secondary schools are average at best the middle class move to private schools and the poorer have no choice. The reason for this is because middle class make a fuss join the PTA and lobby the council. They are often in a position to influence
@Bigqwertyuo1 don't generalise. My parents had the money and therefore the choice to send me to a very good private school, or a very good state school. They sent me to the state school because they believed it would make me a well rounded individual as a whole. School isn't just about education.
@richiemayne School is solely about education. What you want it to be education in is another matter, but you go to learn maths, english, humanities and humanity. To learn. If you said not only exams I would agree with you.
And tell me - was the high quality of the state school you attended a cause or an effect of you going there?
continued .... he is not privileged or spoilt and will take that attitude with him when he goes .Yes it could be more democratic than it is now , but its children like mine that will continue to effect that change . ( ps ...If he grows up into a spoiled elitist snob I never said any of this ...right ? )
azureblue68 3 weeks ago 2
Eton is changing ...my son has just won a full scholarship there on his merit and ability . There's no way we could afford the fees . He's had 13 years of a "normal " education ( you know , poor teaching standards , large class sizes , lack of recognition or ability to foster his desire to learn,made fun of because he has a Kindle rather than a PSP ) , and although his present classmates might think of him as posh ( i.e likes to read books and learn stuff ) ,...
azureblue68 3 weeks ago 2
I like posh children. Just me.
MathPhysChemSkyNerd 1 month ago
I can listen to these guys play this all day. I must go to a Fourth soon.
SimonB67 1 month ago
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光仁
BEPOLITEFORLIVING 1 month ago
id rather be a rich smarmy eton boy whos going to run the country and quaff champagne and cigars on the reg than some grimy working class person living in a council house
vondembach20 2 months ago
All the boys at Eton are gay, except one - and he's a lesbian.
IlRezzonico 4 months ago
my girlfriend loves me "posh" voice :p
MeeranElanko 4 months ago
What, if I may ask, is so terrible about being "posh"?
TheUberPlayboy 6 months ago 4
@TheUberPlayboy Exactly!
HULLOHULLO15 6 months ago
im at eton...
gnic6 8 months ago
sorry someones just said that they know more etonians than someone else, and none of them are posh? i'm sorry? Please! of course they are.
clrtomsett 9 months ago
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Holy shit white people in England oh this is disgraceful I demand everyone be a paki
darkstar3x16 9 months ago
I know many Etonians, (as I attended St. Mary's Ascot), and they are some of the best men I know. I'm 27 now, and still friends with MANY of them.
sillybeegirl18 10 months ago
I can't believe the bullshit people say about Etonians. You saw the kids passing by, those are students if you hadn't noticed. Also, it's not for toffs, you're mistaken. People get in because they are intelligent, not because they 'know people'. I know Etonians, far more than i suspect you do, and believe me, none of them are posh. I'm tired of
OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth 11 months ago 19
@OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth I'm sure they're not posh...
what a load of cobblers.
CFCwehatetottenham 11 months ago
@CFCwehatetottenham Mhm... how many do you know?
OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth 11 months ago
@OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth None and I don't wanna know any of them.
CFCwehatetottenham 11 months ago
@CFCwehatetottenham Well you can hardly talk then
OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth 11 months ago
@OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth Maybe they aren't posh and there is certainly nothing wrong with any boy just because he happens to go to Eton. The point people are making is that it is currently 30,000 pounds a year to attend Eton. There are scholarships, but the majority of students are paying students. So Eton attendance is very much determined by social class, and maintains the class system because Eton graduates are more likely to go to the top universities as well. Also. No girls?!!
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago
@Chocolateluvr1987 What's wrong with being posh? Are you jealous?
Bregowald 8 months ago
@Bregowald Again, like I said above (please read correctly), there is nothing wrong with being posh. There is nothing wrong with a kid just because he goes to Eton. There is, however, something wrong with Eton itself. It IS 30,000 pounds a year to go there, and although there are a few scholarships, it would be pretence to say that it's not a school for the privileged (and only for boys).
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago
@Chocolateluvr1987 That's good. It makes it more exclusive.
Bregowald 8 months ago
@Bregowald How is that good?? Do you honestly believe it's fair that kids, who haven't really done anything to deserve it other than having rich parents who put them down for the school years before, get more chances than everyone else? Being rich doesn't make anyone a better or more competent person. Educational opportunities should be fairly distributed throughout society, or at least based on aptitude.
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago
@Bregowald Of course future Etonians also take admissions tests, I'm not denying that. But the only reason MOST (excluding those on a scholarship) even get to take these tests is because their parents would have the money to put them in that school. That's nothing to be proud of. It just maintains an elitist, anachronistic system of passing on power from generation to generation. It's completely inconsistent with societal aims of establishing greater equality.
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago
@Chocolateluvr1987 I don't see what's objectionable about elitism, and in this decadent age what is anachronistic is generally a good thing.
Bregowald 8 months ago
@Bregowald That's either a very ignorant or just a very snobbish statement.Shouldn't achievement be based on ability, rather than wealth?And how is it desirable to have people in a position of power (and education makes this more likely),making important decisions about other people's lives, when they have never truly lived what most would consider a "normal" life? I don't want these people deciding, for example, how much a minimum wage should be, orwhether to fire people to "optimise" business.
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago 2
@Bregowald Living in an all-boys school secluded from the world doesn't make anyone more competent at life,or more suited to occupational positions with decision power.It's one thing to be selective,but "wealth" is hardly a good selection criteria as it doesn't tell you anything about the person,other than that they have been privileged.And no,don't ask again,this isn't jealousy.I hold a Master's degree in my chosen profession,and I haven't been unfortunate enough to experience true deprivation.
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago 2
@Bregowald The original idea when Eton was founded centuries ago was to allow commoners of potential to have an education to later include them in government. This was a very modern idea for the day and age. This was how it started with the "King's scholars". Today, this isn't true for most of Eton's students. Eton therefore fails to live up to its own ideal.
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago 2
@Chocolateluvr1987 Secondly, as a disproportionate number of Oxford/Cambridge students come from Eton, and they are the most renowned English universities, it gives Etonians an unfair advantage based on the fact that most had parents who were able to pay 30,000 a year. It therefore maintains an unequal class society, keeping those from advantaged backgrounds in a position of power. Eton was founded centuries ago for the purpose of getting "commoners" into positions of power.
Chocolateluvr1987 8 months ago
@OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth Grammar schools are for the intelligent. Eton is for those born to rich families.
Definition: Posh- The quality or state of being elegant, stylish, or upper class.
No one has those qualities at Eton? Well that is a shame.
TashesxD 7 months ago
@OnlyVideoGuyOnEarth Well SOME of them are. It's ridiculous to suggest that no public schoolboys are posh. Having just finished at a top public school I can tell you that most of the country would say that my friends are 'posh', even though I'm saved from that with my brown skin.
respectable66 2 months ago
Fucking toffs
warpenguin6 1 year ago
ahh theyre only boys fiddling with eachother, leave 'em be
monge86 1 year ago 28
Those look like quite the cool guys.
koverm 1 year ago
@Microglia1 shut the fuck up. you didnty get in because of youre intellect, not your background. im non english but I got in. cocky fuck.
Mockrangers 1 year ago
@Mockrangers you didn't get in, don't kid yourself mate
Wabading 11 months ago
its not about ethnic background, its more about social background
CyrusTheElder 1 year ago 3
They really are living in the early 19th Century at Eton. It's a world away from my school.
TheReviewKid 1 year ago
I've always wanted to attend Eton. I got my education at Andover since my parents didn't have any British connection.
Microglia1 1 year ago
This school is for rich kids who will get on in life not becauseof what they know but because who they know. The old school tie will look after them as it did their parents and thier parents. From Eton they go on to Ox aand Cam and the LSE. and then on to Westninster.Iit's all a crying shame!
grandslam1998 1 year ago
@grandslam1998
How prejudiced and ignorant you are. I go to Eton and I guarantee everyone deseves their place. Get on in life because of who we know? So we don't have to work? Seriously every boy achieves 8*+ for a reason, because they WORK. Also, we give the most bursaries out of any major public school. Only about 50% go to 'Oxbridge', get your facts straight before you insult 'Etonians' as a concept. But hey, continue your bitter, jealous tirade if it makes you feel more adequate!
aMasterfulMelon 11 months ago
@aMasterfulMelon PS. Eaton is an anachronism in the modern world rather like the Royal Family.
grandslam1998 11 months ago
@grandslam1998
Also, it is people like you who make going to Eton a hindrance rather than a blessing. Honestly how can you tell me that my 11A*s are through family connections. Don't get your facts from tabloids and documentaries, don't stereotype and then discriminate against a school you know little about. Class means nothing in today's world and if you think it does you clearly need to open your eyes. Indeed, correct your grammar if you are making a case we are 'rich' and spoilt.
aMasterfulMelon 11 months ago
@grandslam1998
Lastly, if you had provenance for this video you would realise this is taken from Eton Action fair, an event set up solely for charity where 1350 boys slave away to try and aid society. Neither of my parents went to Eton, you have such an ignorant, misplaced notion. Visit the school and speak to the boys and then you will revise your opinion. Don't make assumptions based on loose knowledge. In fact this video is the opposite to a 'crying shame', we were raising money for charity
aMasterfulMelon 11 months ago
@aMasterfulMelon The truth hurts that is why you are so upset about my comments. You live in a dream world of your own making. The Bank of Mum and Dad pays your fees of around £30000 to go to Eaton plus extras. The College is based on social class and money. That is a fact! Eaton is " The chief nurse of English statesman" . Our PM went to Eaton and many of his Cabinet also. The Old School Tie is alive in Westminster and in The City of London. It's a crying shame!
grandslam1998 11 months ago
@grandslam1998
If you want to call it an anachronism, at least spell the school you seem to detest so much, its 'Eton'. To be absolutely honest I'm not upset, I was angry at your prejudice. My parents don't pay 30,000 i have a bursary due to the wonderful school providing. Perhpas Etonians are in positions of pwer due to intelligence and talent as well as connections. If you want to be a 56 year old, depressed, bitter welshman, I sincerely wish you the best and hope your ignorance is bliss.
aMasterfulMelon 11 months ago
Re public/private: in England, education was originally the preserve of the royals and very wealthy. 'Public schools' were created to allow other boys to be educated, with a view that they would then go on to do work for the good of the public. Hence, this reason for the schools to be called 'public'. These very old, long-established schools such as Eton, Harrow, Westminster etc are technically 'private' but are still referred to as 'public' as this was their purpose when they were first built.
helened2306 1 year ago
Why are so many people calling private schools public?
Private schools are private. They are not state funded. They are independent. You can only get in, if you have the money.
Public schools are state run ie: public. These are entirely state funded, and dependent on the taxpayer. Different schools will have different entry requirements
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
@waqasahmed939 You clearly don't live in England. Let me explain it to you. This is not meant to sound patronising, so don't take it like that. In America, public schools are paid for by the taxpayer and private schools by the pupil/pupil's parents/scholarship fund. In England, state schools are paid for by the govenrment and divided into primary and secondary. Private schools are paid for by the pupil etc, and divided into prep(aratory) and public schools. Prep school goes to 13, public to 18
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1
Actually I do. I assumed that state and public is the same thing, as thats what public implies, but thanks for letting me know that the private schools are actually public schools in the further years
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
@waqasahmed939 Oh. Sorry about that. I can't really assume something like that, can I? It's just a presumption I made. But yes, Public is a type of private schooling.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1
Its cool. Though it was insulting to be called American lol!
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
Officially, there are no longer grammar schools in the UK, however lots of grammar schools have kept the title to show the levels of academia one would expect.
I went to a state "grammar" school, and quite frankly schools that had the grammar title in my area(Yorkshire) performed far, far better than other schools
I think this year in terms of A levels, once failed but now very good Dixons, and Skipton Grammar beat our school in the whole of Yorkshire.
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
GRAMMAR SCHOOL FTW.
hippomonster3 1 year ago
lol eton
AndyForTheWin 1 year ago
And to end this "debate" once and for all:
It is not beneficial for the government to tax public schools, since it would reduce the number of people attending them. This is a serious issue, because it means that the government must spend a lot more money educating more people. Consequently, for most governments in the world, their aim is to maximise the number of people attending public schools, as it reduces the amount of money that they need to spend educating students.
SquarecutK 1 year ago
@SquarecutK To end this "debate" once and for all:
Disband the public school system so we all have a level playing field. Stop the loop holes in the tax system that are exploited by the rich. Use the revenue raised to create decent education for all not just those rich enough to buy it.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123
Impossible, unless the country becomes drastically poor. Primary schools are classed as elementary schools, and secondary schools are classed as fundamental schools.
UN Article 26:
Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
@waqasahmed939 Yes everyone has the right to an education but if you can buy a better education if you have money that is an uneven playing field and creates an elite system ( The old boy network) This means the power stays with the upper class. Look at the House of parliament it is full of public school boys. The same for banks and all big business Jobs for the boys. Keep the poor. poor and the rich rich..
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123
You don't have to necessarily be from a rich family to start working in banks, and big business. You just need the brains. Its probably true for politicians though.
ie: I would wish to work at the big business of CISCO and it is possible
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
@waqasahmed939 Not to work in Banks true but look at the Chairman and traders all public school boys. You can indeed work for CISCO but if you have the right connections ie went to the right school with the directors son you will get a massive start other wise you start at the bottom and if you lucky work up. I am not bitter but my friend went to Eton then Cambridge and it is not what you know but who you know. Trust me Jobs for the boys.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 That would be, in general, because people are better educated at private school. That's the conclusion to draw. Considering all the positive discrimination there is towards state school children at university, that's just proof of it.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 This would depend on your definition of "Better Educated" Pupils who attend prep and private schools are tutored to pass exams not to receive an rounded education. This produces good exam results to get to Oxbridge but no real understanding of the real world we live in. This the reason why so many members of parliament are so out of touch with the people they represent. Yet another reason to scrap the public school system.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 That would depend on your definition of "well rounded". If it includes learning how to swear badly enough to make a sailor blush, but not integral calculus, I'd take the option that includes the calculus. I am at public school, and I know that I am not receiving a poor education. I think the claim that I don't understand the world is insulting. By the time I leave, I'll have four A-levels, possibly including As and A*s in history and economics. How would I not understand the world?
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 I went to a state school and got 8 O-levels as it was in my time. all either grade A or B. I then went to a state school 6th form and got 4 grade A A levels including Maths and English Lit not bad for a common kid who swears enough to make a sailor Blush. I could have gone to Cambridge I passed the entrance interview but to be honest It was so public school Mummy Daddy Eton summers in South of France and daddies Bmw 5 series. bourgeois bollocks I went to Bristol. A bit better.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Not at all bad. For such an intelligent person not to understand how a public school is good is surprising. But you didn't answer me. How would having an A* in both history and economics sit with not understanding the world?
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Again this only my thoughts. The quality of your education is high and I am sure the A* you hope to get will serve you well. My point is the people who attend Eton are not the typical of the real world. Thismay well be my mistake. But Eton by nature is elite. No offence meant just a point of view
colcfc123 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 if you have A*'s in those subjects you most likely have an idea of the world. All of you haters are intellects who are in denial and just trying to convince yourself and others of how it's not as high as it seems. You know you would've wanted to be Elite. So stop pretending that these kids are not "truly smart" or that they're only going to get ahead in life because they "know people". Face it, you stuck up shits. You don't know each and every individual at Eton.
shkim7 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Well said.
grandslam1998 11 months ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 I will tell you why I think my education was better than yours. As I told you I did well not to blow my own trumpet I was bright and found education both fun and easy. I went to school with ordinary kids some middle class others from the local council estate. Again some good some not so good and mixed abilities some bright others not. I got a good understanding of the real world and the different types of people this has helped me. Eton is all posh privileged kids it is a bubble.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123
(ran out of words) .. meaning primary and secondary schools would remain free, as long as the country is relatively rich but universities can charge whatever they like
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
To anti- independent school people:
Please stop assuming that public school students are elitest and subhuman.
It just shows that you people are jealous and/ or ignorant.
It's not their "fault" that they are are fortunate enough to attend these schools, so don't punish them!
SquarecutK 1 year ago
@SquarecutK It is not an assumption that public school students are elitist. It is stating the bleeding obvious. Far from being punished they are fast tracked into the Banking system the legal profession or join one of the 17 millionaires in the house of Parliament. Yeah my heart bleeds for the poor young things living off daddies trust fund made up of inherited wealth stolen from the poor over many generations. AHH bless their daddies little tax free bonus.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@SquarecutK
Private, not public!
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
something about buying education makes me feel sick...
iskateblueprint5 1 year ago
@iskateblueprint5 So you deny that the taxpayer bought yours for you? You buy the services of a taxi driver; why not those of a teacher?
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 but you think its right the wealthy should be better educated because they have money thats what a private school is saying: you will get good gcse results if you pay money to us and if your poor then fuck off.
iskateblueprint5 1 year ago
@iskateblueprint5 No, a private school is saying YOU buy YOUR education and if YOU work hard YOU will earn good GCSE results. It's not the fault of private schools that most decent teachers can't stand the lax standards at state schools.
As has been said, private education is a meritocracy. If you are good, you are allowed to develop to your fullest extent.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Check out North West Conservative web site we made a few corrections to their wording
colcfc123 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1
That one was a bit harsh. Not all state schools are like that
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
@waqasahmed939 Sometimes I have to be harsh to drive these ideas into thick skulls. Sorry.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@iskateblueprint5 Check out the North Conservative web site a few changes have been made to tell the truth LOL
colcfc123 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 The big problem with buying an education is that the average wage is about £25.000 P.A . This is about the same as private school fees. So it creates a unfair elitist system. This can not be compared to buying the services of a taxi driver. The only way for the state system to improve is to force the rich to send their kids to the local school. Most MPs and people in power buy education so either do not care or pay lip-service to improving state schools
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Would you deny a millionare the right to buy a big house? Slightly flippant, but the principle remains. Why can't you buy services?
Elitism means allowing the best to be the best they can. This is a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.
If you cannot afford a taxi, does that make it immoral for me to take one? Is it unfair that you have to walk? Of course not.
The MPs cannot make private education illegal. Why? Because state education is based on the same principle.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 The definition of elitism is recourse to or advocacy of leadership or dominance by a select group. This is not allowing the best to become the best it is allowing a select few to have the chance to become the best based on money and power. You can not buy services such as private education on a low income fact. This is what makes it immoral and keeps the rich- rich and the poor- poor basic capitalism! do not educate the poor other wise we will have to share the wealth
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Basic capitalism is "don't let people get away with doing nothing". You cannot buy a mansion on low income. Should the state provide one? You give no reason for people not to be allowed to sell their services as a teacher to anyone, including a pupil-funded school as well as a state funded school.
Control by a select group is in fact oligarchy. Elitism is saying we make breakthroughs in science by teaching the people who are good at and motivated by it. Not those who are not.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 No oligarchy is government or state governed by a small group of people. I thought you were the public school boy! If I had paid for that education I would want my money back. Elitism is leadership or dominance by a select few. Capitalism system can only exist if you have rich and poor. Example the poor by houses on mortgages the rich charge them huge interest rates then if they lose jobs cant afford payment get houses taken. Banks fuck up get nationalized no prob bonus
colcfc123 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 The right to an education is a fundmental human right-a taxi isn't.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy Is it? The right to life is. Liberty. And yes, maybe a secondary human right is to an education. But I don't deny that the state should provide schools. All I say is people should be allowed to buy their own education instead. You can go to a private doctor rather than the NHS - the Govewrnment mustn't have a monopoly on a particular service.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
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gymnosophy 1 year ago
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@Bigqwertyuo1 Yes, it is. Universal declaration of human rights article 26.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@colcfc123
Why, when it means that the state doesn't have to fund private schools? A tax would obviously help. We live in a capitalist economy, not a communist one
waqasahmed939 1 year ago
There will never be equality in the UK while the Public Schools are only open to the privelaged.
emperorzong 1 year ago
@emperorzong Then there will never be equality because, quite frankly, th Government couldn't afford Eton. It is possible to get a scholarship or a bursary - I know a boy at one of the top British public schools who doesn't pay a penny.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
Ha. Thats me on the left! We made some money for beer!
levanter1M 1 year ago
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Is it sad that I want to one day teach at this school even though I'm sixteen and still in school myself...?
TheOutcastsOfSociety 1 year ago
Is it sad that I want to teach at this school one day even though I'm sixteen and still in school?
TheOutcastsOfSociety 1 year ago
@TheOutcastsOfSociety Yes it is-get a grip.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@TheOutcastsOfSociety No go for it !! I do not agree in private education and work in a local authority Children's Centre. I work with disadvantaged families but love the rewards it brings. Really if you feel the call go for it. Enjoy you only live once
colcfc123 1 year ago
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The whole public school system is rotten to the core. It stands for snobbery and the
"old boy" network " the class system and every thing that is wrong, from the greedy bankers to the P.M . Do Not forget the poor can only be fooled by the Tory Sun for so much time. Trust me Dave is a twat and we will riot due to his cuts on services to the poor
tick999 1 year ago
@gymnosophy -- there is no one point of education. The acquisition of knowledge, principles & values, manners, and variety of experience is the usual main "point" of most educational institutions. These things help to prepare young persons for success in many fields or areas of life. Also, whilst criticising another person's education, it might be best to use proper grammar and spelling and to avoid spurious or stereotypical attacks.
rebelyell1205 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 "there is no one point of education" "perpare young persons" ? then you go on to critizise use of spelling and grammar!
Take your finger out your dads arse and fuck off douche.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy -- Thank you for proving my point. Even in quoting me, you managed to mangle spelling and mistake proper grammar for poor grammar. The addition of expletives only enhances your obvious lack of precisely what you criticise in others.
rebelyell1205 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 Young people not "young persons" You say potato I say go fuck yourself.
Criticise or criticize? Make your pissy mind up.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy -- ah, we have another educational oversight: both persons and people are correctly used as the plural of person unless it is used in a sociological or anthropological sense. Apparently, the Oxford English Dictionary went to my school and you certainly did not. As for your other statement: I'm confused. Having checked my previous posts, I spelled criticise the same way in both. At least this time, you spelled it correctly -- if only you knew if you were British or American.
rebelyell1205 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 Spelt* Stop bastardizing the English language.
"If only you knew if you were British or American" I know if I am British or American-do you!
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy -- The OED lists both spelt and spelled as proper spellings for the past and past participle of the verb to spell. I presume you accept the OED as the international authority on the English language? At any rate, "spelled" is accepted both sides of the Atlantic. I have bastardized nothing. In full disclosure, I am American but attended university in England, hence I learned (also accepted "learnt," I know) how to spell rather interchangeably. What's your excuse?
rebelyell1205 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 Eh little lord Fauntleroy, when someone is wrong the attack the argurer not the argument. That's something your shitty education has not revealed to you.
Now read on
........get your rich arrogant arse (ass for your spelling) back to the fundamental christian shit hole where the Nazis moved to in 1945, take your finger out your dads(pops) arse(ass/fanny, Webster's accepts both) ask him if he is really your father and say hello(hi) to your mum(mom).
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy -- You have a good point about attacking the critic/arguer. I began my critique with a rebuttal about your statement of there being one point to education. There is one person in this "argument" who has resorted to name-calling, stereotyping, & profanity in nearly every instance, and it isn't the "rich" (I'm not), "fundamental Christian" (I'm not), "Nazi" (I'm not, and that's an oxymoron as the Nazi regime was areligious). Who looks the less educated?
rebelyell1205 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 What the point of an education system is and what it really is, are two different things. If I said there was "one" point" it is for enlightenment. You'll be saying education has nothing to do with social control/indoctrination of the young/obediance.( You may have overlooked it)
Your user name made me giggle. Show me evidence of your yelling rebelion! I bet your a good boy/girl who did what he/she was told like the education system wanted of you. Arrogant undenied-noted
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy -- I thought my original post listing the commonly stated "goals" of education acknowledged the acquisition of manners (ie social behavior patterns) as part of the package. Perhaps I was unclear, mea culpa. "arrogant undenied": well, I do like to be honest ;) You're right, I did precisely as I was told and I have a doctorate to show for it. My username, by the way, is a product of an incident involving me, rugby, and a tendency to yell ...blame my teammates for it.
rebelyell1205 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 My observation of you doing what you were told was spot on Dick, oops, I mean Doc.
Couldn't wait to tell me of your doctorate. I'm a professor myself.
Get back to me when you've read a bit of Zinn and Chomsky.
Blame your teammates? I sense someone who hates criticsim!
Have fun wrestling those muddy boys in the scrum-there's a good boy.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy -- my post was in good humor. I said you were correct about something...and you're still overly hostile. Calm down, not everything is a personal attack. PS -- Howard Zinn is an idiot. Sure, it's all 'happy naked people' in N. America before Europeans. Anyone who believes that hasn't really read the history of native tribes. The only purpose to reading Zinn is to teach students to question what they read (both Zinn and what he critiqued). We digress, and I shall leave off here.
rebelyell1205 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 An American with humour? There's a novelty!
The tribes were infighting like tribes in Iraq are but it doesn't justify swanning in and killing innocents.
I'm sure William Berkley or Anne Coutler are more to your liking.
Education should also be about teaching students how to think not what to think.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 "if only you knew if you were British or American" ? Can you speak English!
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy What is wrong with the sentence? "If" requires the conditional of the verb "to be", which is "were" in all cases: c.p. "If only I were rich" and "If it weren't raining, I would go for a run".
By the wayside, I do debating and you can never win attacking your opponent. Leave the ad hominem out of it.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 You can do debating my the wayside or by the quayside for all I care.
Have some ad hominem prick.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy I note you couldn't answer my grammatical point.
So much for "education, Education, Education". Private sector one, state sector nil.
Also, "quayside" is not pronounced like "Wayside", but instead as "Keyside".
2-0
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Side and side don't rhyme then!
Have you been finger fucked by your house "master"?
Mummy and Daddy loved you so much they couldn't wait to send you away to school to learn Latin, dress like a jerk and get buggered.
Have some more ad hominem hom.
10000 Quidditch points to me.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy Easy there boy. Lashing out is usually a sign of weakness, and that you cannot answer the point. I showed you up and you lash out in insecurity.
I have not been abused by my Tutor, no, and until you clear your head of prejudice and preconception your life is going nowhere.
Your problem with Latin? Is it the requisite academic rigour? And with wearing a jacket and tie? You put the jacket on backwards?
You have still failed to answer my grammatical point.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 It's ok. Mummy and and Daddy loved you really.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy All these comments and not one piece of logic... 'tis a cruel, cruel world indeed. Not even a half-decent rebuttal...not even a half-decent insult...*sigh* Ah, well, such is life (c'est la vie, in case you wanted the French)
And yes, I am being deliberately pretentious because it sems to get right up your nose, and that appeals to me. Ignorance should be punished.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Read boy. My argument is that Etononians are an elistist bunch. Fact. That you have to pay over 30K a year. Fact. That your "school"(Is actually a hegenomy factory) does not pay tax. Fact.
Elitist? Try denying it!
30k a year? Deny that.
Non tax paying business? Fact
At 30K a year your parents must have money to burn. It's safe to assume they are in at least the top 8% richest people(for the UK) Assume correctly or will you come back with a..."no, we are in the top 2%"
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@gymnosophy I'm not actually at Eton. Why did you assume that? No, the school does not pay tax. It provides a top-class education. I would rather pay large fees for a decent public school than go to a second-rate comprehensive. At least you have snapped out of childishness, good. Now: If Eton paid taxes, at the same rate as other businesses, do you have any idea of what the fees would be like? I'm in fact nothing like in the top 8%, and an education is not "burning money". Sorry you think that.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Eton or not you defend a private school education.
The rich have the option to exploit tax free systems at the expense of people who don't or won't.
I sob for how much they would have to pay if had to pay tax.
Yes, educatction is not burning money- therefore, tax the rich to fund state education. And if the rich want to go to Swizterland and get a private education there, they know where the points of exit are.
gymnosophy 1 year ago
@rebelyell1205 You make a number of good points. The acquisition of knowledge, principles & values and manners in particular, Maybe the "point" of most educational institutions. The problem with these points is that if you are in a class of 15 in a private school, quite easy really. Put the same principles in a inner city school with a class of 30 with mixed ability and social problems. I am sure it does not take a lot of thought to see what the issues are. Kids drop out join gangs So on
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Then you advocate private education? Or the state getting off its backside? Separate issues.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 No prob. The worker becomes all the poorer the more wealth he produces, the more his production increases in power and range. The worker becomes an ever cheaper commodity the more commodities he creates. With the increasing value of the world of things proceeds in direct proportion to the devaluation of the world of men. Labour produces not only commodities; it produces itself and the worker as a commodity -- and does so in the proportion in which it produces commodities generally.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 I'm sorry, Mr Marx, your moralising makes little sense. Please. The worker becomes richer the more he works - capitalism, rewards deeds not laziness.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Sorry but it make perfect sense. I you get a Mac job paying minimum wage you hate the bastards you work for making loads of money. The worker gets fuck all and the rich man gets rich. Basic alienation of the work force. The worker feels that the company is taking the piss so has no love for his job. He will take the piss anyway he can. They cheat him he cheat them Bet you don't do a Mc job or you would not chat such shit.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 What? Grammar, please.
I cannot understand you. Please re-post in English.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Grammar!! This is from the person who doesn't know the difference between oligarchy and Elitism. Take the plank from your own eye.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 You failed to fix your post.
Elitism: Advancement of the best
Oligarchy: Rule by the few
Which did you mean by "control by the privileged few", I wonder?
Now take the damn giant redwood from your eye.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Wrong try again!! Elitism- leadership or dominance by an elite group. Not advancement of the best. ( Stupid boy) Look it up in the Oxford dictionary. you got Oligarchy right 5 out of 10 not bad for a public school boy . ad hominem (well done again) But you are a fool if you think people will take cuts in services and let bankers get bonuses
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 What the hell are you on about? Someone has already said this, but I will repeat it. If public schools were disbanded you would have to pay more tax. If everyone were state educated you would pretty much be paying the full cost of your education. Public school is what allows you to get your free education. Now stop being so ignorant. And cuts in service? What are we on about now? The fact that the Tories are reducing spending? I thought we were about education, not politics.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 WHAT!!! Pupils attending public school allows people to get free education. Do you really think that the tiny amount of pupils who are lucky enough to attend public school has any real effect on the cost of state education? Gosh you call me ignorant Can I suggest you do some research into how taxes collected you will find that the rich parents who send their spoil t brats to prep then public schools are the biggest tax evaders. Like the 17 Millionaires in the house of p
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 You pay a certain amount towards your education - assuming you're not on benefits - and if everyone attended state school you would pay the full cost - unless you/your parents are too lazy to get a well-paid job. If you are on benefits you have no right to disparage me for attending public/private school. Frankly, people who attend public school take that on their own wallets. And you don't take the cost of yours on yours.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Being lazy has little to do with getting a well paid job. The people who work the hardest in manual work often earn the least . I am lucky enough to have a good job I earn a living wage and can support my family without claiming any benefits. I have every right to disparage you/ or your parents for buying an education that most can not afford. The class system this supports is what is wrong with the world today. By design it keeps the rich - rich and the poor-poor
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 I disagree. The fact is there is nothing wrong with allowing people to pay other people to teach them. You do it. In fact you have it done for you. If I/my parents want to take the cost of an education on themselves, that's fine. It's there choice. If I want private healthcare, I can get it (I don't, in fact. I think the NHS is adequate. But I still have the right). If I want to buy something rather than have the government buy it, I have that right.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 The problem is the inequality. Just cause your parents can afford to send you to prep then public school and others can not is wrong. Because that is why the power is in the hands of the people rich enough to buy it. Look at the Parliament 11 millionaires most from public school. Who dish out cuts to the services used by the poor. The whole system is rotten to the core. The Red top papers controlled my millionaires attack people on benefits. The whole thing stinks
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Then what? Allow some benefits scroungers afford some house a working decent person cant afford?
I say bring the coalition government in, its wrong that a decent working person or family cant afford a house that a benefits scrounging family can afford because they get that many benefits, thats whats wrong.
I say bring this new government in and may it continue, until you learn how to afford things by your own means., not the governments!
andrew8833 1 year ago
@andrew8833 Hear, hear.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@andrew8833 Andrew I work very hard claim no benefits I have a mortgage and two kids all supported by working hard. Why are you so angry with people on benefits? In the scheme of things they are small beer. Look the rates from the Bank of England is point 5 % do the Banks pass this on to the poor bastards with Mortgages? Do they F**k. The bankers and city workers got record bonuses this month. What about the rich who hide their money to avoid tax. I feel that is the real issue. Not the poor
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Most people would agree that letting someone else work for you is despicable. That is the biggest flaw in aristocracy, especially feudal aristocracy. Yet now the "scroungers" are the lower classes. Never call a Lord or a Baron a leech or a bloodsucking tick , as I am sure you would love to do, until you are off all forms of benefits.
Being able to afford something is not wrong. Is it immoral if I work hard and send my son to a good school? Of course not.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Read my comments before you send random replies. I am working on a good salary claim no benefits. My anger is not with the scrounging, inbred, toffee nosed, chinless wonders on the civil list. They are beyond contempt. My problem is with the petty bourgeoisie. Stupid fools who think they can buy their way into a class system that would not piss on them if they were on fire. You do not even know the difference between Elitism and Oligarchy. Stop being a wannabe and know u place
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 I'm sorry - are you accusing me of trying to buy my way into the nobility? What on earth can you claim to know about me? About my life, my dreams, my desires in life, my aspirations or my ambitions? Can you even imagine how little I care about "buying my way into the class system"? Or do you just make unjustified assumptiuon after baseless accusation, all the way to your grave? How can you claim to know my place? How can you think you have the right to call me a "wannabe"?
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 No I just think you have your head up your bum!! and can't tell the difference between Elitism and Oligarchy. My assumption of your wannabe aspiration is based quite simply on your adamant defense of public school system that by it's nature keeps the class system in place. I hope you achieve your dreams and ambitions. Maybe you should buy the Telegraph instead of the Mail. I do not agree with a word you say but I admire your bloody mindedness.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 I personally buy The Times. The Mail is not serious and the Telegraph is a bit too much away from my personal taste, shall we say? My defense of a "public school system that keeps&c." is based on the fact that I believe that I have a right to buy something, namely an education. WHO buys something cannot matter. If it is OK for the government to buy it for me, it is OK for me to buy it for myself. Anything other is a dictatorship. (Also known as an oligarchy, though in a limited sense)
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Well in that case you could argue that the government provides an army for defense therefore if is ok for them to provide that for you. You can form your own private army and provide them with weapons. Bit random maybe but that is how you base your argument.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 No, because the government can't buy ME an army - or shouldn't. They buy the country a defense force. It's not ok for me as a private individual to have an army.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 But the government dose provide an army the same as it provides schools you say that if is ok or the government to buy it for you then its ok for you to buy it yourself. That is clearly not the case and the same applies for buying an eduction one is provided by the state it should be for all. The state system will never improve if the rich do not have to use it. Quite simply they could not care less about state schools because they do not have to use them
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Why should I put up with a substandard education? Why should I go to some shitty comprehensive? Because of your Marxist principle of equality? Grow up. I stopped whining "That's not fair" aged 5.
I suppose you deny my right to hire a doctor? Or to buy vegetables? Or hire a taxi driver? Or buy a house rather than live on a council estate?
What is your problem with the fact that I am spending money on MY education and it affects YOU not one drop?
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 But it does affect me because the state system will never improve while the rich do not have to use it. The Tory party Eton boys do not give a hoot about state school cause they buy better. That is wrong. It's not Whining it is stating the bleeding obvious. Even a Torie boy like you can not argue with facts.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 I can argue with whatever I like, including supposed facts. Why on earth should state schools not improve while the rich - for which substitute mildly well-off - do not have to use them? In any event, we had Labour for the past...what was it, oh yes, I remember. 13 years. Did they make state schooling better? Um...no. Not really. Not at all.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 Of course you can argue with what ever you like. You can argue the moon is made of cream cheese and Black is white but it dose not make it right. Facts are facts.Labour did great things for education Sure Start free places for 3 year old EMA to name a few.
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 No, the fact of the mattter does. Which means evidence. What evidence have you for the supposedly derogatory effect of private schooling on state schools?
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 The fact is that state schools are not used by those in power. People move (those who can) to be near a good primary school these schools do really well look at Wandsworth for a clear example. Outstanding OFSTED reports for primary . The secondary schools are average at best the middle class move to private schools and the poorer have no choice. The reason for this is because middle class make a fuss join the PTA and lobby the council. They are often in a position to influence
colcfc123 1 year ago
@colcfc123 Agreed. State schools are not used by people who can afford private. That's an effect, not a cause, of their low quality.
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago
@Bigqwertyuo1 don't generalise. My parents had the money and therefore the choice to send me to a very good private school, or a very good state school. They sent me to the state school because they believed it would make me a well rounded individual as a whole. School isn't just about education.
richiemayne 1 year ago
@richiemayne School is solely about education. What you want it to be education in is another matter, but you go to learn maths, english, humanities and humanity. To learn. If you said not only exams I would agree with you.
And tell me - was the high quality of the state school you attended a cause or an effect of you going there?
Bigqwertyuo1 1 year ago