Phil may have 11 titles, but look how the Bulls were without Michael Jordan when he first retired. I mean, when Jordan came back, they won more titles. When Shaq left, the Lakers struggled. I disagree with the critics about them saying Phil is the greatest. No, Red Auerbach changed the NBA by breaking racial barriers. Probably 80% or 90% of the time, he drafted players that were responsible for bring titles to the franchised. Typical Lakers fans, go Celtics!
@aaron93m you mean he started drafting black players which ultimately changed the game because what 90 percent of the league is black? Cmon man when Michael came into the league he was considered a "great" already but until Phil came, Michael was considered below Magic and Bird.
@aaron93m They actually did incredibly well in 1994. They should even have made the Finals, if not for a controversial foul call on Scottie Pippen against one of the playoff games against the Knicks. But use that same argument on Auerbach. He was nowhere close to a championship without Russell, was he?
And Phil's still won without Shaq. Also the fact that he's done it with so many VERY different teams says a lot.
@sumskater999 Nope, wrong. When they got Pau Gasol, they started to win more games. When he returned after Rudy T. left, they were nobodies & they were getting spanked by the Suns. Lol I can go all day with this because Phil Jackson is nowhere near to Red Auerbach. He was responsible the the championship days in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. He was even responsible for drafting, Paul Pierce. With that being said, Phil Jackson is just a regular coach who didn't make any moves acquiring players.
@aaron93m Well by that argument, the 2x recent champion Lakers should be dominating right now, but they aren't. Why? Because now they're coached by Mike Brown, not Phil Jackson. Bynum's playing great now, and they may not even make the playoffs.
Phil's job wasn't to acquire players. You're talking about how the two match up as General Managers, not as coaches. Phil managed to win championships with many different teams, while Auerbach won many championships with generally the same team.
@aaron93m Okay as Jalen said, there were WAY fewer teams then, less competition, fewer great championship-caliber players on each team, and Auerbach had the same winning formula for all 9 of his rings. Phil's 1991 ring and 2010 ring had NOTHING in common but Phil. The teams were completely different, PROVING that Phil was the reason. I wonder if Auerbach could have coached the 60's Lakers of West/Baylor and win a championship with them.
@aaron93m Hahahah dude, you're ridiculous. Here's the simple stat: Red won 9 titles when there was only 8 teams. Phil won 11 titles with 27-30 teams in the NBA. Phil NEVER had a losing season and he NEVER missed the playoffs, the ONLY coach to do so. That Lakers team you pointed out after Rudy T, went 34-48 without Phil and Phil with the EXACT SAME TEAM went 45-37 the next year while nearly beating the Suns. Also, Phil never lost a series after he won Game 1. No coach has EVER done that before.
@dalx21 Yeah, half of the teams in the league aren't even as half as good. The Celtics faced a lot of elimination back in the 60's. If Phil Jackson coached in the 60's with the Celtics, would you still say that it was easy back then? I guess not. Red Auerbach is the greatest coach in NBA history, end of argument.
@aaron93m If Phil coached in the 60's then I wouldn't say he's the best. What did Michael Jordan and Pippen do before Phil was his coach? Nothing except playoff losses. They couldn't win anything. What did Shaq and Kobe do before Phil became their Coach? A bunch of playoff exits. Plus, after Auerbach retired, the Celtics still won a couple more Titles with Russell as the player/coach. Look at the Lakers now. We aren't very good. But Phil could make this team a title contender.
@aaron93m Phil won 11 titles with two different teams in at least 3 different ways. Auerbach won 9 titles with the exact same team. It doesn't take a genius to understand that free agency kills dynasties. Phil won 11 titles with a different supporting cast EVERY SINGLE TIME. Red never had to deal with free agency since their were EIGHT teams! Red never had to win more than TWO series to win a title. Phil at one point, won 25 series in a row. TWENTY-FIVE! Red only did 16.
Hey Jalen Rose give Red Auerbach the players that Phil Jackson coached and let Red coach until he was 65 years old and see how many championships teams he would have coached. Red stopped coaching AT AGE FORTY EIGHT. Red didn't have the bankroll of Jerry Buss behind him. Red coached and was GM AT THE SAME TIME!!!!
Listen to the dopes talking about Hall of famers. Even though I'm a Celtics fan as a player KC JONES SHOULD NOT BE IN THE HALL OF FAME. Go check out the number of years he played and his stats.
@Viewer305212 I got 4 likes, and you have 0. plus, you disliked my comment, and liked cobraspartans twice lolz. Viewer305212 = Not worth anyones time.
@Ivantheterrible666 LMAO, wow are you that much of a loser that youre counting likes? loll I'm sure ur worth peoples time, cuz all thats coming out of your mouth is "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BULLSHIT I LOVE BOSTON, BIG COCKS IN MY MOUTH, GREEN CELTIC DICKS, BLAH BLAH LOSER." You got 4 likes cuz there are 4 dipshits like you, probably ur so bored that you made 4 accounts. I guess they make you feel better, here I'll even put it up to 5..does that make you happy now? LOL loser
@Viewer305212 Don't argue with geocgeo. He is so far up the Celtics' ass he just won't give credit where credit is due when it is outside of Boston. Bob Ryan & Tommy Heihnson thinks he's a homer. We & everybody outside of Boston knows that Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time, the wins & 'chips don't lie. geocgeo trolls on other Boston-related sites & complains when someone talks about his Boston Celtic legends.
Phil Jackson picked his spots. You can't say that he was "instrumental" in developing those players either because the rest of the team was always garbage. When Red Auerbach integrated new players into the system, he taught them how to play and STAY in that system for years, unlike Phil, who contstantly has players like Artest, Barnes, Peyton, Malone, etc. entering only to flouder while kobe takes thirty shot attempts a game. Phil never was and never will be the greatest coach.
@Ivantheterrible666 What Phil Jackson has is team ownership that write checks that are so far over the salary cap that it's a joke. Jalen Rose on Mike and Mike=THREE FOOLS!!!!
@gfscarface13 The Lakers are over the NBA Salary cap all the way through the 2013-2014 season, disallowing any big free agent signings during that time.
@gfscarface13 What NBA Teams are not over the salary cap? The 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls for 1. They only won 62 games in the 2010-2011 regular season and won the central division.
@geocgeo Thats it, Only 1 team you could think of, and did you even think the lakers are over the cap cause of the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER in Kobe, did you think about that you idiot. Odom is overpaid, Gasol makes good money too. Kobe gets over 35 Million a year.
@Ivantheterrible666 Auerbach won his 9th NBA Championhip as coach of the Celtics in 1966 that his last year of coaching. Red retired from coaching at age 48. How old was Phil when he won his 9th as a coach in the NBA?
@geocgeo Auerbach won his TItles against less INFERIOR Competition. The league was a Joke compare to today, they Only had 2 playoff rounds to win the Title back than.
@gfscarface13 Only 2 playoff rounds when Auerbach was coaching? In !966 Auerbach was coaching the Celtics
and they beat Cincinnati in the division semifinals that was 1 playoff round, they beat Philadelphia in the Division finals that was 2 playoff rounds and they beat the lakers in the Championship round.That's THREE playoff rounds. YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE.
@geocgeo 3 Playoff rounds and beat them 3 out of 5 times in the first two rounds and win 4 in the Finals. Not impressive compare to now, more gap for losing, alot more games, more cities to go to, more media to talk to. The League was a Joke in the 60's compared to now.
@Ivantheterrible666 Oh I get you, so Red didn't pick his spots? Red ran a team with Russell, Havilcek, Cousy, KC jones, etc, etc. He coached them at the time where the League had no competition besides mainly the Lakers with Wilt, West, and Goodrich. Phil coached at the time where the league was at its most competitive stage. Red succedded cuz of the time frame...there was really NO fucking competition. Phil learned to win with his own system in the most heated era of the game.
@geocgeo FOOL? Tex Winter created it, good job for you, you know that. But Tex never ran it better than Phil dick face. Lmao you dumbass, By his own system meaning the way he handled his players different than any coach . Go take your medication now, FOOL is an understatement for you, WASTE OF LIFE matches you, fuckin loser.
@Viewer305212 LOL Get on wikipedia and look up the career coaching record of Tex Winter. He never had the players that Phil was lucky enough to have on his team while coaching. Tex Winter is going into the Naismith Hall of fame for a reason you fool. Winter started another chapter of his life, serving as an assistant coach with the Chicago Bulls, and teaching the triangle offense to Michael Jordan. YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT!! Waste of life? Go look in a mirror you will see a waste of life..
@geocgeo TEX DIDN'T WIN 11 CHAMPIONSHIPS NOW DID HE YOU MENTALLY UNPRIVILEGED QUEER. lmaoo teaching Michael really? Are you that biased and dumb at the same time, If i were to look in the mirror, all I'd see is a dude laughing his ass off at a dumb ass kid tryna argue like a little girl. Go read a book idiot, what a fucking Joke
@geocgeo hahaha Youre a Celtics fan, no wonder you're so bitter to Phil. You're biased as fuck and your old that's why what you say never can be relevant and true. Youre opinions are all filtered cuz ur from Lame ass boston. Yeah I'm 19 and i know MUCH more NBA history than you do. You're 50 plus, pickin arguments on youtube, and I'm the asshole and loser? Just cuz ur old doesn't mean you're more knowledgeable of the game. Man I feel bad dissing back at you now lol. You sound dumb
@Ivantheterrible666 11 rings......Red coached when nobody gave a fuck about basketball and the competition was all bullshit. Little whiteboys runnin around only, no 3 point shot, etc etc, Red "PICKED" the safest team to coach at the time, and he won 7, good for him, but you can't compare him to Phil and his success. That's why red hated on Phil in his last days, cuz he knew he could never be better than him.
@Viewer305212 Red PICKED the safest team to coach?Prior to the 1950–51 NBA season, Auerbach was approached by Walter Brown, owner of the Boston Celtics. Brown was desperate to turn around his struggling and financially strapped franchise, which was reeling from a terrible 22–46 record.
THE 33 YEAR OLD Auerbach picked the safest team to coach...
22-46 that was a safe bet..THANKS again you fucking MORON...LOL
@geocgeo HE HAD RUSSELL, COUSY, JONES, ETC ETC THE FOLLOWING YEARS, HE KNEW THAT......THE NBA in the 60's SUCKED, face it, you know it old timer (i forgot your opinion is too biased)...Go to sleep man, next year the Celtics will win, don't worry, take it easy
@Viewer305212 Thanks for another laugh. I suggest you do a little research kid and find out how Auerbach got Bill Russell as a player for the Celtics...ROFLMAO
@geocgeo I feel like shit grandpa, I'm sorry for keeping u up, I really feel bad...ill take ur advice and go to sleep, I dont wanna waste time arguing with you
@geocgeo I'm sorry your so biased, if you came out of that Boston world you live in, you'd understand....we can debate this all day, what I say isn't "stupid", it's a neutral opinion, your opinion is swayed...regardless of what I say its gonna be "stupid" to you because your close minded to the game, your more a fan of the Celtics than a fan of the game. That's why its pointless to continue from now on with you, Bye bye
@Viewer305212 Lolz on what basis do you make those statements? Your opinion is anything BUT that... pathet ic moron. Good game, no rematch. Flagged for spam btw.
@Viewer305212 Wrong again I love watching Michael Jordan videos the player that carried Phil to 6 of his rings Jordan 6 finals 6 rings...LOL
Without Jordan and the checkbook of Jerry Buss Phil would be a towel boy...lol
I give Phil credit for 1 thing. He knew how to get a HUGE salary. Jackson is divorced with five children and seven grandchildren.Jackson has been dating Jeanie Buss, the daughter of Lakers owner Jerry Buss, since 2001
Just date the owners daughter and he was all set...ROFL
@Ivantheterrible666 lmao he wasnt as successful now was he FUCK brain....get your head out of ur ass, youre mind is shit, Red is not the Greatest coach of all time u dumbass, Coaching in the 60s and winning 7 titles in that era makes you the best? Really? Fuck outta here with that bullshit, LAME
@Ivantheterrible666 ohhh and you're a guru now? You insecure piece of shit....Its FUCKING YOUTUBE, it's not a god damn spelling exam, IDIOT, lol you tryna judge knowledge on the internet? lmfao I'll take the grammar of a 4 year old, but you have the intelligence of a jizzed condom, what a fucking Joke
Red was 48 when he won his 9th as coach and was part of 16 NBA championships. How old was Phil when he won his 9th? Great players? Jackson had Michael Jordan for 6 of his championships. Red formed the 6th man concept and developed the fast break style of play. He represented the US behind the Iron Curtin conducting clinics. He punched out opposing owners and was given the 'heave-ho' by refs long before the word 'ejected' became popular. Red was a fierce competitor and the ultimate winner.
@geocgeo Bringing up Auerbach's 7 championships as a GM is irrelevant in a debate about the greatest coach of all-time. He only won 9 championships as a head coach, not 16.
Furthermore, I don't know of any coach or teams that win championships without great players. People talk about how Phil Jackson won with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq and Kobe. Red Auerbach had hall of fame players up and down his line-up. Same with Pat Riley. No one wins championships without great players.
@spinnernet1 Auerbach was coach G.M. and team president at the same time while he was coaching the Celtics. If Auerbach coached until he was Phil Jacksons age Auerbach would have more championships as coach than Phil. All Phil Jackson did was copy Tex Winters triangle offense, Tex was a Los Angeles Lakers consultant and architect of the triangle offense,I'm sure you don't have a clue.
Why is it Jackson has only 1 coach of the year selection if he's been such a great coach?
@geocgeo IF Auerbach would have coached until Phil Jackson's age. IF, IF, IF. You know what? He didn't. End of story.
Who cares if Phil Jackson only won one coach of the year award? Coaches of teams that are already great don't usually win coach of the year. Coach of the year USUALLY goes to coaches who take a non-playoff team and leads them to the playoffs. 3 of the last 4 men who won coach of the year, won it by bringing non-playoff teams to the playoffs after they were hired.
@geocgeo lol, why are you acting so childish? I didn't insult you. And yet, you decided to insult me just because I had a different opinion than you did on a topic. You really need to learn how to handle yourself better when someone disagrees with you, and stop insulting people for no good reason.
@spinnernet1 Phil Jackson to the Michael Jordan's teammates GIVE MICHAEL JORDAN THE BALL AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY I WANT TO WIN ANOTHER CHAMPIONSHIP!!
In no way is Jackson better then Auerbach. Auerbach won eight finals in a row, something Jackson can only dream about. Jackson has been a coach longer then Auerbach was too and was given greatest player ever on his team (Micheal Jordan) along with the second or third best (behind LeBron and Wade) players of this era and Shaq. Auerbach was also involved in another 7 championships as the GM of the Celtics. Only a fool would say Jackson is better.
@35g70 lol....yes and Auerbach had NOOOOO Hall of Famers, NOOOOOO All-time greats like Bill Russell and Bob Cousy. Com'on man get your head out of your ass. Both are great coaches, different era's though. The only certain thing anyone can claim in basketball is that Michael Jordan is the Greatest Player of All-Time and there won't be another. Everything else is debatable.
Auerbach actually had to find talent, Jackson was handed Michal Jordan and the third best player in the league (behind Wade and James). Plus Auerbach was the GM of the Celtics for another seven championships. Jackson is a good coach but Auerbach is on a whole different level.
And Jackson will never win eight in a row, that's something only the greatest Coach in the history of the game can do.
@35g70 This debate is about the greatest COACH of all-time. Bringing up the fact that Auerbach won 7 more championships as a GM is irrelevant. He only won 9 championships as an actual coach.
@35g70 fair enough. I just hate it when people bring irrelevant arguments to a debate. To be honest, it's extremely difficult and probably unfair to try to compare Red Auerbach to Phil Jackson. One guy coached in the 1960s and one guy coached in the 1990s to 2000s. It's two different eras. There were only 8 or 9 teams when Red was coaching. There are 30 now. It was arguably easier to win championships back then. Now you have to worry about 29 other teams and player movement and egos.
@35g70 (continued) I'm just saying. It's two different eras. Red Auerbach didn't have to worry about free agency and salary caps back then. He could keep his team together for many years and they could dominate the other 8 teams in the league. I think it's also easy to win a bunch of championships when there's only 8 other teams in the NBA. Yeah, those teams may be loaded with good players, but there's still only 8.
Coaches today have to worry about big player egos and free agency.
About the argument of so and so not winning before Phil - that's not a fair argument. Pippen and Kobe were still developing, those were 50 win teams when Kobe & Pippen were rookies. Phil deserves credit for Chicago's 1st 3 peat but that 2nd 3 peat team was loaded. Harper was an all-star caliber player before taking a smaller role, Kukoc was big overseas. Honestly, the Lakers get too much help from the refs for me to take most of their titles seriously, those Laker teams were loaded too.
Look at the Celtics they had "The Big Three" but only won one championship! They should have won three straight with those players. Then the Cavs who had King James and an assortment of other good players and even brought in Shaq this last year to generate the best record in basketball but they couldn't even get to the Finals. Great players are a must if you want to win the Finals but without a great coach you might never see the big game.
They probably would have won three but Garnett was injured from the last part of the '08-'09 season through the '09-'10 seasons. Now he is back to being as good as he was in the '07-08 seasons and the Celtics are looking very good.
The Spurs are looking really good this year, and the Magic are also looking quite good as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Spurs-Magic Finals this year.
@35g70 With Rondo playing even better and the addition of Shaq the Celtics should easily make it to the Finals. And as far as the Lakers go, they were undefeated for 8 or 9 games so they're starting where they left off.
Well he's the greatest no doubt about it. Why? Because he had three three-peats, most wins in playoffs, season, finals, etc., and he has 11 championships in his pocket. Sure he happened to have MJ and Kobe on his team while he coached but any regular coach would be lucky to win with one of them.
PJ is the greatest coach of all time. How many rings did MJ,Shaq, and Kobe have before PJ showed up?! zero, none of em ever won shiet until Phil coached em. Phil Jackson is a G.O.A.T
How come when they mentioned the top coaches ever or top 5 the one name that was missing was Gregg Popovich. Hello he has won 4 championships and his win % is unbelievable.
He's great coach, but alltime? He wouldn't be the first person i would think of! Definitely Pat Riley, Phil jackson Auberbach, are the 3 people i'd think of!
Read below first (pistons and the Jordan rules) and he instilled the team with the triangle offense which took the load of michael and spread it around. He did the exact same thing with the lakers because before he came, the team was selfish and didnt play great team ball. HE RANGLES STARS AND MAKES THEM CHAMPIONS. Im sorry if this was longwinded but i had to say it
OK! Now i have had enough with people bashing Phil because he played with the talented teams that he did and that he had jordan and scottie on one and shaq and kobe on the other because now im gonna break it down for you. A year after the Zen master got promoted to head coach of the bulls, they won a championship (Something that Michael and Scottie didnt do before) and this was because before he came, the game ran to michael instead of through him which many teams used to beat them (read above)
if you have a team like 90s Bulls and the Lakers now wat else can you do beside tellin players some simple shit......i mean he had Jordan,Pippen,Harper and all the great players and now he has Kobe,Shaq,Gasol n alot sick players too.
You put Phil on the Kings,kings wont improve by much.
and if the 08 Celtics didnt win champ they should go fuckin die lmaooo.....that team was too good to not win a champ
every dyansty has great players u idiot if u diidnt know dat let me see a coach coach a player like luke wlaton and sasha vujacic lets see if they would of won titles.
@ball3r900 give any coach jordan and you will have 6 rings. Gregg Popovich has the highest winning percentage in the NBA as of right now. plus he has turned Manu, Parker, and is in the process of making george hill into an elite player.
@SAtownZ28 not true coaching is more than players. Mike Brown has the best player in the world with LeBron, and if you say Kobe is the best thats fine then LeBrons the best in the East and they still cant get to the finals o its more than just players
@westcoasthype619 Ok i see your point but give Jordan any Elite Coach(what i ment just should have put my words better) and he will be sitting with 6 rings. give him Jackson, Pop, larry Brown, Pat Riley, Don Neslon, hell maybe even a Doc Rivers, Huey Brown, or Jeff Van Gundy. just because Phil got luckey and got to Coach the GOAT should automatically make him the alltime best.
Let's not forget, twice in Jackson's career, despite his "success", the owners had no problem with letting him go. 1998 with the Bulls and 2004 with the Lakers. Apparently two different owners had no problem with dumping "the greatest NBA coach"
How can Jalen possibly claim to be "objective"? He grew up a Bulls/MJ fan and is today a Celtics hater (much like 90% of the ESPN staff). So of course he's going to think Phil is better based on subjective criteria.
That's why all of his arguments are weak and if anything, demonstrate that Auerbach is the superior coach.
Let Dr. Phil win 9 of 10 and 8 in a row before we annoint him anything. Let Dr. Phil also build a team and do it w/o ASSISTANTS.
Well, he won a championship with a team that featured just one future hall of famer, whereas Red won one with SEVEN!!! And every one of his championship teams featured at least five future hall of famers; Phil's championship teams never featured more than three. Not only Jackson had less to work with, but he had to win 151 playoff games to get those 10 titles, compared to the 74 wins that Red needed. So Phil is the one who did more with less.
Well 1) Red made them HoF because the writers tend to vote in the HoF and they tend to put in winners, DUH! 2) In Phil's time, all you needed was one HoF. There are probably 10 guys over the last 20 years that are true HoF material and Phil coached FOUR of them. 3) Phil coached in a watered down era where the best team was the one with a HoF so of course the wins are inflated.
To say Phil did more with less is laughable. Did you mention he had at least 3 assistants every season? Red had ZERO.
Red perhaps made them better players, but he DID NOT make them hall of famers. I love the fact you said that in Phil's time you just need a hall of famer to win. Sloan had TWO and didn't win. Phil coached four, but he didn't coach them at the same time! Red did coach SEVEN hall of famers at the same time!!! You talk as if Phil was the only coach with a hall of famer during his era.
LOL! Look who's talking! You are the one who throw meaningless conclusions! Indeed, you are subjective! Ewing not a star? LOL! Only 10 HoF in the last 20 years? DAMN! Forget about Riley, you apparently don't know who Magic and Kareem are. If Phil had 40% (not true) HoF of his era, Red had like 99%. You contradict yourself. Two stars to win today? Phil won with just ONE!!! Pau? If Ewing is not a star to you, Pau certainly is not one. Pop won with Duncan. Your "two stars" theory doesn't work.
Obviously you couldn't attack my Knicks argument for Riley and you are throwing Magic and Kareem (you forgot Worthy BTW) as if that is helping your case? The teams were STACKED in the 1980s. The Milwaukee Bucks of the 1980s would cream any team of today.
BTW, you're attacking my "two stars"argument is bolstering my point, not attacking it. So all Phil needed was one star you say?, TY for proving my fuckin' point.
You are the one who is proving my point. It's obvious that you don't know what you're saying. You opinions are too subjective. You don't deserve anyone's attention. If Ewing is not a star, then Pippen, Rodman and Gasol aren't either. So we could say that Phil, with one star in his team, won 6 titles in Chicago and 1 title in L.A. So that makes SEVEN titles with one star in his team. Did Red do that? Riley? You contradict yourself and you don't even know it. Nice talking to you. Bye!
If I'm a moron for saying that, you must be something worse than a moron saying that Phil had 40%. I mean, what kind of idiot would say that there's only 10 HoF in the las 20 years? When you said that Ewing is not a star, I decided to ignore your Knicks argument. I didn't forget Worthy; wanted to keep it short. I proved you wrong when I said that Phil won with one star in his team. You must be retarded or something, because you don't get anything!
"I proved you wrong when I said that Phil won with one star in his team. "
If you say so, LOL, but stating that Phil needed only one star bolstered my point. BTW, you chose to "ignore" the Knicks argument because you know it's the truth.
YES! Because you are the one who says that Phil won because he had too much talent. Based on your opinions, he had one star in 2009. As I said before, contradictions. About the Knicks, that comment of yours doesn't deserve any response. If you go on and tell people that Ewing is not a star, they will laugh at you.
"Because you are the one who says that Phil won because he had too much talent."
NO, read again. I wrote that all he needed was one or two stars in order to win a title and Phil was lucky enough to be there (the "Forrest Gump" of coaching). If any of his teams played the elite teams of the 80s, they would get slaughtered.
And the fact that you keep ducking my Knicks comment demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about. Ewing was not a "star" nor was he ever. Simply a great player.
Lucky? What happened to Doug Collins? Del Harris? They were lucky enough to be there also before Phil arrived, but couldn't win. I think Harris had more luck, since he had four all-stars in his team. Again, you talk as if Phil was the only coach with a star or HoF in his team. If having great players in a team is luck, then EVERY coach is lucky. So a great player is not a star. OK. I'm curious, what is a star?
Well, since Phil coached, he had FOUR sure thing HoF playing for him in MJ, Scottie, Shaq and Kobe. In the Phil era, the only other sure thing HoF that didn't play for him are Duncan, Stockton, Malone, Hakeem, and potentially LeBron and Wade.
That's 10 surething HoF in the Phil era and Phil had 4 of them. If they taught you math at that remedial school at which you attend, you can do the math.
If you count only 10 HoF, it's obvious Phil had 40%. You forgot Rodman, so Phil had a total of 5 HoF in championship years. But the thing is that there were not just 10 HoF in the NBA during this time! What about Kidd, Robinson, Ewing, R. Miller, Drexler, Barkley, Payton, Garnett, Iverson, Pierce. Since you named LeBron and Wade, I'll name Howard & C. Paul. If you don't think that these players are true HoF, then you can't say Pippen is one. That's more than 10 HoF. Can you do the math?
TY fore listing borderline guys, I specifically mentioned "sure thing" guys. Paul and Howard are not there yet, and Robinson, Drexler, Barkley, Pierce Payton, Iverson and Kidd are not sure things. I might give you KG just to be charitable.
I can do the math, I can also do some real analysis.
And yes, Phil did more with less. It's easy, look. Phil 5 HoF = 10 titles 3 HoF at the same time = 3 titles 2 HoF at the same time = 6 titles 1 HoF = 1 title 3 NBA top 50 = 9 titles Now Red... Never had less than five HoF in his championship teams. 7 HoF = 9 titles 5 NBA Top 50 = 9 titles If you understand numbers, you can see that Phil indeed did more with less.
You apparently don't understand the idea of DILUTION. Phil did have "less" but in his era it was actually MORE. Again, he had 40% of the guaranteed HoF players of his era, Red had much less than that. And since you only needed two stars to win a title in today's era with today's rules, Phil had much, much more!
BTW, Red may have had more HoF but he also fuckin' found them and made them that. Red said it himself that he found players to fit HIS style of basketball. So it is clear that Red made all of them HoF because they won so fuckin' much.
And please, stop bringing up the argument that Phil never built a team. Red did it, because he could, not only coach a team, but manage it, too. Phil didn't have that power. The GM is the one that builts a team, not the coach.
It's not an argument, it's a fact that Phil never built a team (Phil even acknowledged this himself). Phil not having that power implies that he was lucky to get the talent he had to win. If he coaches Memphis to a title with their idiot GM, I might give him more credit. Even Pat Riley did more with less than Phil.
BTW, if he was such a great coach, then how come he was dismissed TWICE? If you refuse to answer this question, we'll know how weak your side actually is.
He is a coach! Not a GM! The GM gives the coach the keys to work on. Riley did more than Phil with less? Are you serious? Riley won four titles in 9 years as a coach of a Lakers team that had TWO top 10 players. Didn't win with Ewing, another great center. Won in Miami with another top 10 player (Shaq) and one of the best players in this generation (Wade), that makes THREE top 10, with just 5 titles. Jackson with just two top 10 (Kobe is not top 10), has 10 titles. Riley had more and did less!
Riley took a Knicks team with 0 stars (Ewing is not a star) and led themk to the NBA Finals. It was Riley's system which helped the Knicks get there. Just for this coaching job alone, Riley is better than Phil who always coached the best player in the league and still found new and ever more embarrassing ways to LOSE!
Why was he dismissed? Well, for starters, in case you didn't know, owners don't get rid of a coach just because he is a bad coach, personal reasons also had something to do with that. In Phil Jackson case, BOTH times the owner didn't want him on his team was for personal reasons. Do you know how many good coaches have been fired? Owners tend to blame everything on the coaches.
bulls didn't win a title until phil jackson took the head coaching job, the lakers had shaq, kobe, eddie jones vanexel in 96 and phil signed on in 99 and won the title his first year!!! for someone to say that phil only wins because he's had great players which team wins a title without great players?
I agree with that guy, Phil builds his players. Jordan/Shaq/Kobe had talent, but what player doesn't???? Like the other guy said, it's a pre-requisite for a championship team to have talent. I think the main difference is that Phil is good at building championship chemistry into his team. And remember this is not just about Jordan or Shaq or Kobe, this is about the TEAM. If you watch the 2008 post-season laker games, you see a TEAM. THAT is why they won.
I meant to say the 2009 post-season, but 2008 is another example of him building this team up. Part of him building them up, is just encouraging them to build themselves. There's something about Phil that brings out the best in his team.
Many naysayers says there's nothing special about Kobe or Shaq or Jordan. They point to all hte great players in the NBA, present and past. They say they're just the NBA's poster child. I agree. Most of hte great players have the ability to be a Jordan or Kobe.
No there is not. Sure it is easier to lose on any one night but over a course of a season, it is much harder to coach against a team you see 12 times a year. That's why games btwn division rivals in the NFL are much harder to coach than the others.
Not to many coaches can compare to Phil Jackson. Who knows what will happen 20 or 30 years later but as of now, he is clearly the greatest NBA coach of all time.
I totally agree with Jalen on everything he said here. Right now, the Lakers are just one win away from winning the Finals. If they win, there will be no doubt whatsoever who is the greatest NBA coach of all time.
Phil may have 11 titles, but look how the Bulls were without Michael Jordan when he first retired. I mean, when Jordan came back, they won more titles. When Shaq left, the Lakers struggled. I disagree with the critics about them saying Phil is the greatest. No, Red Auerbach changed the NBA by breaking racial barriers. Probably 80% or 90% of the time, he drafted players that were responsible for bring titles to the franchised. Typical Lakers fans, go Celtics!
aaron93m 3 months ago
@aaron93m you mean he started drafting black players which ultimately changed the game because what 90 percent of the league is black? Cmon man when Michael came into the league he was considered a "great" already but until Phil came, Michael was considered below Magic and Bird.
jerjerjason 2 months ago
@aaron93m They actually did incredibly well in 1994. They should even have made the Finals, if not for a controversial foul call on Scottie Pippen against one of the playoff games against the Knicks. But use that same argument on Auerbach. He was nowhere close to a championship without Russell, was he?
And Phil's still won without Shaq. Also the fact that he's done it with so many VERY different teams says a lot.
sumskater999 3 weeks ago
@sumskater999 Nope, wrong. When they got Pau Gasol, they started to win more games. When he returned after Rudy T. left, they were nobodies & they were getting spanked by the Suns. Lol I can go all day with this because Phil Jackson is nowhere near to Red Auerbach. He was responsible the the championship days in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. He was even responsible for drafting, Paul Pierce. With that being said, Phil Jackson is just a regular coach who didn't make any moves acquiring players.
aaron93m 3 weeks ago
@aaron93m Well by that argument, the 2x recent champion Lakers should be dominating right now, but they aren't. Why? Because now they're coached by Mike Brown, not Phil Jackson. Bynum's playing great now, and they may not even make the playoffs.
Phil's job wasn't to acquire players. You're talking about how the two match up as General Managers, not as coaches. Phil managed to win championships with many different teams, while Auerbach won many championships with generally the same team.
sumskater999 3 weeks ago
@sumskater999 Lol... Red Auerbach did everything with the Celtics back when he coached. No assistant coaches, and they didn't have a high payroll.
aaron93m 3 weeks ago
@aaron93m Okay as Jalen said, there were WAY fewer teams then, less competition, fewer great championship-caliber players on each team, and Auerbach had the same winning formula for all 9 of his rings. Phil's 1991 ring and 2010 ring had NOTHING in common but Phil. The teams were completely different, PROVING that Phil was the reason. I wonder if Auerbach could have coached the 60's Lakers of West/Baylor and win a championship with them.
sumskater999 3 weeks ago
@aaron93m Hahahah dude, you're ridiculous. Here's the simple stat: Red won 9 titles when there was only 8 teams. Phil won 11 titles with 27-30 teams in the NBA. Phil NEVER had a losing season and he NEVER missed the playoffs, the ONLY coach to do so. That Lakers team you pointed out after Rudy T, went 34-48 without Phil and Phil with the EXACT SAME TEAM went 45-37 the next year while nearly beating the Suns. Also, Phil never lost a series after he won Game 1. No coach has EVER done that before.
dalx21 3 weeks ago
@dalx21 Yeah, half of the teams in the league aren't even as half as good. The Celtics faced a lot of elimination back in the 60's. If Phil Jackson coached in the 60's with the Celtics, would you still say that it was easy back then? I guess not. Red Auerbach is the greatest coach in NBA history, end of argument.
aaron93m 3 weeks ago
@aaron93m If Phil coached in the 60's then I wouldn't say he's the best. What did Michael Jordan and Pippen do before Phil was his coach? Nothing except playoff losses. They couldn't win anything. What did Shaq and Kobe do before Phil became their Coach? A bunch of playoff exits. Plus, after Auerbach retired, the Celtics still won a couple more Titles with Russell as the player/coach. Look at the Lakers now. We aren't very good. But Phil could make this team a title contender.
dalx21 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
dalx21 3 weeks ago
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@aaron93m Phil won 11 titles with two different teams in at least 3 different ways. Auerbach won 9 titles with the exact same team. It doesn't take a genius to understand that free agency kills dynasties. Phil won 11 titles with a different supporting cast EVERY SINGLE TIME. Red never had to deal with free agency since their were EIGHT teams! Red never had to win more than TWO series to win a title. Phil at one point, won 25 series in a row. TWENTY-FIVE! Red only did 16.
dalx21 3 weeks ago
Hey Jalen Rose give Red Auerbach the players that Phil Jackson coached and let Red coach until he was 65 years old and see how many championships teams he would have coached. Red stopped coaching AT AGE FORTY EIGHT. Red didn't have the bankroll of Jerry Buss behind him. Red coached and was GM AT THE SAME TIME!!!!
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo Red also never won a championship without Russell. Phil's won plenty without Jordan.
sumskater999 3 weeks ago
Listen to the dopes talking about Hall of famers. Even though I'm a Celtics fan as a player KC JONES SHOULD NOT BE IN THE HALL OF FAME. Go check out the number of years he played and his stats.
geocgeo 8 months ago
YOU BOSTON FANS ARE SUCH DUMB ASSES....FUCKIN BABIES, GROW A SACK AND STOP WHINING
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 I got 4 likes, and you have 0. plus, you disliked my comment, and liked cobraspartans twice lolz. Viewer305212 = Not worth anyones time.
Ivantheterrible666 8 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 LMAO, wow are you that much of a loser that youre counting likes? loll I'm sure ur worth peoples time, cuz all thats coming out of your mouth is "BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BULLSHIT I LOVE BOSTON, BIG COCKS IN MY MOUTH, GREEN CELTIC DICKS, BLAH BLAH LOSER." You got 4 likes cuz there are 4 dipshits like you, probably ur so bored that you made 4 accounts. I guess they make you feel better, here I'll even put it up to 5..does that make you happy now? LOL loser
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Go take your daily doses of Taxilan Promethazine Atosil, Closin, Promethazin Neuraxph., Proneurin, Prothazin and STFU!!
Prothipendyl
Dominal
Sulpiride
Dogmatil, Dogmatyl, Sulpirid
Thioridazine
Melleril, Thioridazin Neuraxph.
geocgeo 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Don't argue with geocgeo. He is so far up the Celtics' ass he just won't give credit where credit is due when it is outside of Boston. Bob Ryan & Tommy Heihnson thinks he's a homer. We & everybody outside of Boston knows that Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time, the wins & 'chips don't lie. geocgeo trolls on other Boston-related sites & complains when someone talks about his Boston Celtic legends.
myboyz24 7 months ago
@myboyz24 lmfao thanks bro, i figured that one out a month ago lol...Fucking losers man
Viewer305212 7 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 you can't like a video twice, dipshit LOL, just quit
Viewer305212 8 months ago
NBA Titles as a Head Coach
Phil Jackson 11 > red auerbach 9
gfscarface13 8 months ago
HaHaHaHa
Dallas 122 Lakers EIGHTY SIX...
THIRTY SIX POINT BLOWOUT
SWEEP
geocgeo 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Phil Jackson picked his spots. You can't say that he was "instrumental" in developing those players either because the rest of the team was always garbage. When Red Auerbach integrated new players into the system, he taught them how to play and STAY in that system for years, unlike Phil, who contstantly has players like Artest, Barnes, Peyton, Malone, etc. entering only to flouder while kobe takes thirty shot attempts a game. Phil never was and never will be the greatest coach.
Ivantheterrible666 10 months ago 4
@Ivantheterrible666 What Phil Jackson has is team ownership that write checks that are so far over the salary cap that it's a joke. Jalen Rose on Mike and Mike=THREE FOOLS!!!!
geocgeo 10 months ago
@geocgeo Tell me what NBA Teams are not over the salary cap?
The lakers are over the cap cause of Kobe, he's the Highest paid basketball player in the NBA.
gfscarface13 8 months ago
@gfscarface13 The Lakers are over the NBA Salary cap all the way through the 2013-2014 season, disallowing any big free agent signings during that time.
geocgeo 8 months ago
@gfscarface13 What NBA Teams are not over the salary cap? The 2010-2011 Chicago Bulls for 1. They only won 62 games in the 2010-2011 regular season and won the central division.
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo Thats it, Only 1 team you could think of, and did you even think the lakers are over the cap cause of the HIGHEST PAID PLAYER in Kobe, did you think about that you idiot. Odom is overpaid, Gasol makes good money too. Kobe gets over 35 Million a year.
gfscarface13 8 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 Auerbach won his 9th NBA Championhip as coach of the Celtics in 1966 that his last year of coaching. Red retired from coaching at age 48. How old was Phil when he won his 9th as a coach in the NBA?
geocgeo 10 months ago
@geocgeo Auerbach won his TItles against less INFERIOR Competition. The league was a Joke compare to today, they Only had 2 playoff rounds to win the Title back than.
gfscarface13 8 months ago
@gfscarface13 Only 2 playoff rounds when Auerbach was coaching? In !966 Auerbach was coaching the Celtics
and they beat Cincinnati in the division semifinals that was 1 playoff round, they beat Philadelphia in the Division finals that was 2 playoff rounds and they beat the lakers in the Championship round.That's THREE playoff rounds. YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE.
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo 3 Playoff rounds and beat them 3 out of 5 times in the first two rounds and win 4 in the Finals. Not impressive compare to now, more gap for losing, alot more games, more cities to go to, more media to talk to. The League was a Joke in the 60's compared to now.
gfscarface13 8 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 Oh I get you, so Red didn't pick his spots? Red ran a team with Russell, Havilcek, Cousy, KC jones, etc, etc. He coached them at the time where the League had no competition besides mainly the Lakers with Wilt, West, and Goodrich. Phil coached at the time where the league was at its most competitive stage. Red succedded cuz of the time frame...there was really NO fucking competition. Phil learned to win with his own system in the most heated era of the game.
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Phil learned with his own system?...LOL...Tex Winter,
Innovator of the Triangle Offense, Los Angeles Lakers Assistant Coach
Ha Ha Ha....Keep it coming you FOOL
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo FOOL? Tex Winter created it, good job for you, you know that. But Tex never ran it better than Phil dick face. Lmao you dumbass, By his own system meaning the way he handled his players different than any coach . Go take your medication now, FOOL is an understatement for you, WASTE OF LIFE matches you, fuckin loser.
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 LOL Get on wikipedia and look up the career coaching record of Tex Winter. He never had the players that Phil was lucky enough to have on his team while coaching. Tex Winter is going into the Naismith Hall of fame for a reason you fool. Winter started another chapter of his life, serving as an assistant coach with the Chicago Bulls, and teaching the triangle offense to Michael Jordan. YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT!! Waste of life? Go look in a mirror you will see a waste of life..
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo TEX DIDN'T WIN 11 CHAMPIONSHIPS NOW DID HE YOU MENTALLY UNPRIVILEGED QUEER. lmaoo teaching Michael really? Are you that biased and dumb at the same time, If i were to look in the mirror, all I'd see is a dude laughing his ass off at a dumb ass kid tryna argue like a little girl. Go read a book idiot, what a fucking Joke
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Kid? I have kids older than you junior.19 years old and you think you know about NBA history...LOL
I started going to Celtics games in 1963 when I was a kid and I've lauged my ass off at the Lakers enough to last 2 lifetimes.
Once that queer shit startrd you proved that you're an asshole and a loser.
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo hahaha Youre a Celtics fan, no wonder you're so bitter to Phil. You're biased as fuck and your old that's why what you say never can be relevant and true. Youre opinions are all filtered cuz ur from Lame ass boston. Yeah I'm 19 and i know MUCH more NBA history than you do. You're 50 plus, pickin arguments on youtube, and I'm the asshole and loser? Just cuz ur old doesn't mean you're more knowledgeable of the game. Man I feel bad dissing back at you now lol. You sound dumb
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 11 rings......Red coached when nobody gave a fuck about basketball and the competition was all bullshit. Little whiteboys runnin around only, no 3 point shot, etc etc, Red "PICKED" the safest team to coach at the time, and he won 7, good for him, but you can't compare him to Phil and his success. That's why red hated on Phil in his last days, cuz he knew he could never be better than him.
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Red PICKED the safest team to coach?Prior to the 1950–51 NBA season, Auerbach was approached by Walter Brown, owner of the Boston Celtics. Brown was desperate to turn around his struggling and financially strapped franchise, which was reeling from a terrible 22–46 record.
THE 33 YEAR OLD Auerbach picked the safest team to coach...
22-46 that was a safe bet..THANKS again you fucking MORON...LOL
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo HE HAD RUSSELL, COUSY, JONES, ETC ETC THE FOLLOWING YEARS, HE KNEW THAT......THE NBA in the 60's SUCKED, face it, you know it old timer (i forgot your opinion is too biased)...Go to sleep man, next year the Celtics will win, don't worry, take it easy
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Thanks for another laugh. I suggest you do a little research kid and find out how Auerbach got Bill Russell as a player for the Celtics...ROFLMAO
Now go have some warm milk and go to sleep.
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo I feel like shit grandpa, I'm sorry for keeping u up, I really feel bad...ill take ur advice and go to sleep, I dont wanna waste time arguing with you
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 That's OK kid go buy a few books about the NBA and study them before you make more stupid comments. I forgive you.
geocgeo 8 months ago
@geocgeo I'm sorry your so biased, if you came out of that Boston world you live in, you'd understand....we can debate this all day, what I say isn't "stupid", it's a neutral opinion, your opinion is swayed...regardless of what I say its gonna be "stupid" to you because your close minded to the game, your more a fan of the Celtics than a fan of the game. That's why its pointless to continue from now on with you, Bye bye
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Lolz on what basis do you make those statements? Your opinion is anything BUT that... pathet ic moron. Good game, no rematch. Flagged for spam btw.
Ivantheterrible666 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Wrong again I love watching Michael Jordan videos the player that carried Phil to 6 of his rings Jordan 6 finals 6 rings...LOL
Without Jordan and the checkbook of Jerry Buss Phil would be a towel boy...lol
I give Phil credit for 1 thing. He knew how to get a HUGE salary. Jackson is divorced with five children and seven grandchildren.Jackson has been dating Jeanie Buss, the daughter of Lakers owner Jerry Buss, since 2001
Just date the owners daughter and he was all set...ROFL
geocgeo 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Dipshit, red was coach long long LONG before Russell, Cousey, and Havlicek were on the team.
Ivantheterrible666 8 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 lmao he wasnt as successful now was he FUCK brain....get your head out of ur ass, youre mind is shit, Red is not the Greatest coach of all time u dumbass, Coaching in the 60s and winning 7 titles in that era makes you the best? Really? Fuck outta here with that bullshit, LAME
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Dumbass, you're no basketball guru. You are pathetic...
Also, you have the grammar of a four year old.
Ivantheterrible666 8 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 ohhh and you're a guru now? You insecure piece of shit....Its FUCKING YOUTUBE, it's not a god damn spelling exam, IDIOT, lol you tryna judge knowledge on the internet? lmfao I'll take the grammar of a 4 year old, but you have the intelligence of a jizzed condom, what a fucking Joke
Viewer305212 8 months ago
@Viewer305212 Intelligence of a gizzed condom? ROFL have a nice day hahah.....
Ivantheterrible666 8 months ago
@Ivantheterrible666 loll im glad youre laughing at it, thats how lame you are loll, Go take your medication now....
Viewer305212 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Have a good night.
geocgeo 10 months ago
The National Basketball Association's Coach of the year award was named the Red Auerbach Trophy for a reason.
geocgeo 10 months ago
Red was 48 when he won his 9th as coach and was part of 16 NBA championships. How old was Phil when he won his 9th? Great players? Jackson had Michael Jordan for 6 of his championships. Red formed the 6th man concept and developed the fast break style of play. He represented the US behind the Iron Curtin conducting clinics. He punched out opposing owners and was given the 'heave-ho' by refs long before the word 'ejected' became popular. Red was a fierce competitor and the ultimate winner.
geocgeo 11 months ago
@geocgeo Bringing up Auerbach's 7 championships as a GM is irrelevant in a debate about the greatest coach of all-time. He only won 9 championships as a head coach, not 16.
Furthermore, I don't know of any coach or teams that win championships without great players. People talk about how Phil Jackson won with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaq and Kobe. Red Auerbach had hall of fame players up and down his line-up. Same with Pat Riley. No one wins championships without great players.
spinnernet1 10 months ago
@spinnernet1 Auerbach was coach G.M. and team president at the same time while he was coaching the Celtics. If Auerbach coached until he was Phil Jacksons age Auerbach would have more championships as coach than Phil. All Phil Jackson did was copy Tex Winters triangle offense, Tex was a Los Angeles Lakers consultant and architect of the triangle offense,I'm sure you don't have a clue.
Why is it Jackson has only 1 coach of the year selection if he's been such a great coach?
geocgeo 10 months ago
@geocgeo IF Auerbach would have coached until Phil Jackson's age. IF, IF, IF. You know what? He didn't. End of story.
Who cares if Phil Jackson only won one coach of the year award? Coaches of teams that are already great don't usually win coach of the year. Coach of the year USUALLY goes to coaches who take a non-playoff team and leads them to the playoffs. 3 of the last 4 men who won coach of the year, won it by bringing non-playoff teams to the playoffs after they were hired.
spinnernet1 10 months ago
@spinnernet1 LMAO
geocgeo 10 months ago
@spinnernet1 .You're irrelevant spinnernet1.. You're also a fucking DOPE!
geocgeo 10 months ago
@geocgeo lol, why are you acting so childish? I didn't insult you. And yet, you decided to insult me just because I had a different opinion than you did on a topic. You really need to learn how to handle yourself better when someone disagrees with you, and stop insulting people for no good reason.
spinnernet1 10 months ago
@spinnernet1 I only speak the truth but YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
geocgeo 10 months ago
@geocgeo keep telling yourself that.
spinnernet1 10 months ago
@spinnernet1 Phil Jackson to the Michael Jordan's teammates GIVE MICHAEL JORDAN THE BALL AND GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY I WANT TO WIN ANOTHER CHAMPIONSHIP!!
geocgeo 10 months ago
Greg Popovic you muppets! 4 fucking rings!
emouch1 1 year ago
In no way is Jackson better then Auerbach. Auerbach won eight finals in a row, something Jackson can only dream about. Jackson has been a coach longer then Auerbach was too and was given greatest player ever on his team (Micheal Jordan) along with the second or third best (behind LeBron and Wade) players of this era and Shaq. Auerbach was also involved in another 7 championships as the GM of the Celtics. Only a fool would say Jackson is better.
35g70 1 year ago
@35g70 lol....yes and Auerbach had NOOOOO Hall of Famers, NOOOOOO All-time greats like Bill Russell and Bob Cousy. Com'on man get your head out of your ass. Both are great coaches, different era's though. The only certain thing anyone can claim in basketball is that Michael Jordan is the Greatest Player of All-Time and there won't be another. Everything else is debatable.
WushuDude13 1 year ago
@WushuDude13
Auerbach actually had to find talent, Jackson was handed Michal Jordan and the third best player in the league (behind Wade and James). Plus Auerbach was the GM of the Celtics for another seven championships. Jackson is a good coach but Auerbach is on a whole different level.
And Jackson will never win eight in a row, that's something only the greatest Coach in the history of the game can do.
35g70 1 year ago
@35g70 This debate is about the greatest COACH of all-time. Bringing up the fact that Auerbach won 7 more championships as a GM is irrelevant. He only won 9 championships as an actual coach.
spinnernet1 10 months ago
@spinnernet1
Yeah but Jackson's teams were all ready made. Auerbach had to go out and draft players like Bill Russell.
35g70 10 months ago
@35g70 fair enough. I just hate it when people bring irrelevant arguments to a debate. To be honest, it's extremely difficult and probably unfair to try to compare Red Auerbach to Phil Jackson. One guy coached in the 1960s and one guy coached in the 1990s to 2000s. It's two different eras. There were only 8 or 9 teams when Red was coaching. There are 30 now. It was arguably easier to win championships back then. Now you have to worry about 29 other teams and player movement and egos.
spinnernet1 10 months ago
@35g70 (continued) I'm just saying. It's two different eras. Red Auerbach didn't have to worry about free agency and salary caps back then. He could keep his team together for many years and they could dominate the other 8 teams in the league. I think it's also easy to win a bunch of championships when there's only 8 other teams in the NBA. Yeah, those teams may be loaded with good players, but there's still only 8.
Coaches today have to worry about big player egos and free agency.
spinnernet1 10 months ago
@spinnernet1 No all he had to worry about was coaching,making the decisions and do it with a lot less money to work with than the Lakers spent.
geocgeo 10 months ago
About the argument of so and so not winning before Phil - that's not a fair argument. Pippen and Kobe were still developing, those were 50 win teams when Kobe & Pippen were rookies. Phil deserves credit for Chicago's 1st 3 peat but that 2nd 3 peat team was loaded. Harper was an all-star caliber player before taking a smaller role, Kukoc was big overseas. Honestly, the Lakers get too much help from the refs for me to take most of their titles seriously, those Laker teams were loaded too.
ajcolor 1 year ago
Phil is the greatest coach that ever existed.
june021988 1 year ago
Phil Jackson is the greatest of all time at coaching at any sport. ANY SPORT. Basketball, football, baseball etc. PJ is the GOAT. Period.
kobe24mvp81 1 year ago
the greatest coach ever and no one will ever be greater than Phil Jackson
kb2410baller 1 year ago
red auerbach created great players red auerbach is the best coach to ever coach
wnedys4life 1 year ago
Look at the Celtics they had "The Big Three" but only won one championship! They should have won three straight with those players. Then the Cavs who had King James and an assortment of other good players and even brought in Shaq this last year to generate the best record in basketball but they couldn't even get to the Finals. Great players are a must if you want to win the Finals but without a great coach you might never see the big game.
dxarmy94 1 year ago
@dxarmy94
They probably would have won three but Garnett was injured from the last part of the '08-'09 season through the '09-'10 seasons. Now he is back to being as good as he was in the '07-08 seasons and the Celtics are looking very good.
35g70 1 year ago
@35g70 Point taken. I believe it will be a rematch this year for the title.
dxarmy94 1 year ago
@dxarmy94
The Spurs are looking really good this year, and the Magic are also looking quite good as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Spurs-Magic Finals this year.
35g70 1 year ago
@35g70 With Rondo playing even better and the addition of Shaq the Celtics should easily make it to the Finals. And as far as the Lakers go, they were undefeated for 8 or 9 games so they're starting where they left off.
dxarmy94 1 year ago
Well he's the greatest no doubt about it. Why? Because he had three three-peats, most wins in playoffs, season, finals, etc., and he has 11 championships in his pocket. Sure he happened to have MJ and Kobe on his team while he coached but any regular coach would be lucky to win with one of them.
dxarmy94 1 year ago
easily the greatest
AsiasDad 1 year ago
NOT EVAN CLOSE!!!!....Red whatever his name is wouldn't have more than 3 today...ill take Pat Riley and Greg Pop over that old Celtic fuck aswell
WonderBread006 2 years ago
PJ is the greatest coach of all time. How many rings did MJ,Shaq, and Kobe have before PJ showed up?! zero, none of em ever won shiet until Phil coached em. Phil Jackson is a G.O.A.T
cobraspartan 2 years ago 8
How come when they mentioned the top coaches ever or top 5 the one name that was missing was Gregg Popovich. Hello he has won 4 championships and his win % is unbelievable.
MrHrana1 2 years ago
@MrHrana1
theyre talking about the greatest of all time.
and a coach that has a potential to be the greatest of all time..
allisterter 2 years ago
He's great coach, but alltime? He wouldn't be the first person i would think of! Definitely Pat Riley, Phil jackson Auberbach, are the 3 people i'd think of!
After that , i dont know~ lol
stockmaster1982 2 years ago
HE RANGLES STARS AND MAKES THEM CHAMPIONS. Give him his respect
shacke129 2 years ago
Read below first (pistons and the Jordan rules) and he instilled the team with the triangle offense which took the load of michael and spread it around. He did the exact same thing with the lakers because before he came, the team was selfish and didnt play great team ball. HE RANGLES STARS AND MAKES THEM CHAMPIONS. Im sorry if this was longwinded but i had to say it
shacke129 2 years ago
OK! Now i have had enough with people bashing Phil because he played with the talented teams that he did and that he had jordan and scottie on one and shaq and kobe on the other because now im gonna break it down for you. A year after the Zen master got promoted to head coach of the bulls, they won a championship (Something that Michael and Scottie didnt do before) and this was because before he came, the game ran to michael instead of through him which many teams used to beat them (read above)
shacke129 2 years ago
phil doesnt do shit lmaoo
if you have a team like 90s Bulls and the Lakers now wat else can you do beside tellin players some simple shit......i mean he had Jordan,Pippen,Harper and all the great players and now he has Kobe,Shaq,Gasol n alot sick players too.
You put Phil on the Kings,kings wont improve by much.
and if the 08 Celtics didnt win champ they should go fuckin die lmaooo.....that team was too good to not win a champ
stevechen1991 2 years ago
Not to mention the de facto coach of the Bulls was Michael Jordan. He was the one that motivated the rest of them, not Philyss.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
every dyansty has great players u idiot if u diidnt know dat let me see a coach coach a player like luke wlaton and sasha vujacic lets see if they would of won titles.
juniorthug1 2 years ago
i kno that but phil jackson has TOO many good players lol he doesnt jus have one or two lol
stevechen1991 2 years ago
lol but still bro u need great players for dynastys!! look at the cletics team i nthe 60's they had like 20 hall of famers.
juniorthug1 2 years ago
How many Coaches have made a sucky team good it simply doesnt happen all Phill does is maximize the Talent on the team he's the greatest of all time!
ball3r900 2 years ago
@ball3r900 give any coach jordan and you will have 6 rings. Gregg Popovich has the highest winning percentage in the NBA as of right now. plus he has turned Manu, Parker, and is in the process of making george hill into an elite player.
SAtownZ28 1 year ago
@SAtownZ28 not true coaching is more than players. Mike Brown has the best player in the world with LeBron, and if you say Kobe is the best thats fine then LeBrons the best in the East and they still cant get to the finals o its more than just players
westcoasthype619 1 year ago
@westcoasthype619 Ok i see your point but give Jordan any Elite Coach(what i ment just should have put my words better) and he will be sitting with 6 rings. give him Jackson, Pop, larry Brown, Pat Riley, Don Neslon, hell maybe even a Doc Rivers, Huey Brown, or Jeff Van Gundy. just because Phil got luckey and got to Coach the GOAT should automatically make him the alltime best.
SAtownZ28 1 year ago
@westcoasthype619 Kobe also has Gasol, another franchise player.
ajcolor 1 year ago
Let's not forget, twice in Jackson's career, despite his "success", the owners had no problem with letting him go. 1998 with the Bulls and 2004 with the Lakers. Apparently two different owners had no problem with dumping "the greatest NBA coach"
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
How can Jalen possibly claim to be "objective"? He grew up a Bulls/MJ fan and is today a Celtics hater (much like 90% of the ESPN staff). So of course he's going to think Phil is better based on subjective criteria.
That's why all of his arguments are weak and if anything, demonstrate that Auerbach is the superior coach.
Let Dr. Phil win 9 of 10 and 8 in a row before we annoint him anything. Let Dr. Phil also build a team and do it w/o ASSISTANTS.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Well, he won a championship with a team that featured just one future hall of famer, whereas Red won one with SEVEN!!! And every one of his championship teams featured at least five future hall of famers; Phil's championship teams never featured more than three. Not only Jackson had less to work with, but he had to win 151 playoff games to get those 10 titles, compared to the 74 wins that Red needed. So Phil is the one who did more with less.
DNY21 2 years ago
Well 1) Red made them HoF because the writers tend to vote in the HoF and they tend to put in winners, DUH! 2) In Phil's time, all you needed was one HoF. There are probably 10 guys over the last 20 years that are true HoF material and Phil coached FOUR of them. 3) Phil coached in a watered down era where the best team was the one with a HoF so of course the wins are inflated.
To say Phil did more with less is laughable. Did you mention he had at least 3 assistants every season? Red had ZERO.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Red perhaps made them better players, but he DID NOT make them hall of famers. I love the fact you said that in Phil's time you just need a hall of famer to win. Sloan had TWO and didn't win. Phil coached four, but he didn't coach them at the same time! Red did coach SEVEN hall of famers at the same time!!! You talk as if Phil was the only coach with a hall of famer during his era.
DNY21 2 years ago
It's easy to be a stat collector, it's much more difficult to actually do some legit analysis of the stats.
You throw stats with meaningless conclusions and I just laugh at you much like I do at Jalen "I can't read" Rose.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
LOL! Look who's talking! You are the one who throw meaningless conclusions! Indeed, you are subjective! Ewing not a star? LOL! Only 10 HoF in the last 20 years? DAMN! Forget about Riley, you apparently don't know who Magic and Kareem are. If Phil had 40% (not true) HoF of his era, Red had like 99%. You contradict yourself. Two stars to win today? Phil won with just ONE!!! Pau? If Ewing is not a star to you, Pau certainly is not one. Pop won with Duncan. Your "two stars" theory doesn't work.
DNY21 2 years ago
Red had 99% of the HoF? look again moron!
Obviously you couldn't attack my Knicks argument for Riley and you are throwing Magic and Kareem (you forgot Worthy BTW) as if that is helping your case? The teams were STACKED in the 1980s. The Milwaukee Bucks of the 1980s would cream any team of today.
BTW, you're attacking my "two stars"argument is bolstering my point, not attacking it. So all Phil needed was one star you say?, TY for proving my fuckin' point.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
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DNY21 2 years ago
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DNY21 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You are the one who is proving my point. It's obvious that you don't know what you're saying. You opinions are too subjective. You don't deserve anyone's attention. If Ewing is not a star, then Pippen, Rodman and Gasol aren't either. So we could say that Phil, with one star in his team, won 6 titles in Chicago and 1 title in L.A. So that makes SEVEN titles with one star in his team. Did Red do that? Riley? You contradict yourself and you don't even know it. Nice talking to you. Bye!
DNY21 2 years ago
If I'm a moron for saying that, you must be something worse than a moron saying that Phil had 40%. I mean, what kind of idiot would say that there's only 10 HoF in the las 20 years? When you said that Ewing is not a star, I decided to ignore your Knicks argument. I didn't forget Worthy; wanted to keep it short. I proved you wrong when I said that Phil won with one star in his team. You must be retarded or something, because you don't get anything!
DNY21 2 years ago
"I proved you wrong when I said that Phil won with one star in his team. "
If you say so, LOL, but stating that Phil needed only one star bolstered my point. BTW, you chose to "ignore" the Knicks argument because you know it's the truth.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
YES! Because you are the one who says that Phil won because he had too much talent. Based on your opinions, he had one star in 2009. As I said before, contradictions. About the Knicks, that comment of yours doesn't deserve any response. If you go on and tell people that Ewing is not a star, they will laugh at you.
DNY21 2 years ago
"Because you are the one who says that Phil won because he had too much talent."
NO, read again. I wrote that all he needed was one or two stars in order to win a title and Phil was lucky enough to be there (the "Forrest Gump" of coaching). If any of his teams played the elite teams of the 80s, they would get slaughtered.
And the fact that you keep ducking my Knicks comment demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about. Ewing was not a "star" nor was he ever. Simply a great player.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Lucky? What happened to Doug Collins? Del Harris? They were lucky enough to be there also before Phil arrived, but couldn't win. I think Harris had more luck, since he had four all-stars in his team. Again, you talk as if Phil was the only coach with a star or HoF in his team. If having great players in a team is luck, then EVERY coach is lucky. So a great player is not a star. OK. I'm curious, what is a star?
DNY21 2 years ago
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dtran07 2 years ago
Well, since Phil coached, he had FOUR sure thing HoF playing for him in MJ, Scottie, Shaq and Kobe. In the Phil era, the only other sure thing HoF that didn't play for him are Duncan, Stockton, Malone, Hakeem, and potentially LeBron and Wade.
That's 10 surething HoF in the Phil era and Phil had 4 of them. If they taught you math at that remedial school at which you attend, you can do the math.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
If you count only 10 HoF, it's obvious Phil had 40%. You forgot Rodman, so Phil had a total of 5 HoF in championship years. But the thing is that there were not just 10 HoF in the NBA during this time! What about Kidd, Robinson, Ewing, R. Miller, Drexler, Barkley, Payton, Garnett, Iverson, Pierce. Since you named LeBron and Wade, I'll name Howard & C. Paul. If you don't think that these players are true HoF, then you can't say Pippen is one. That's more than 10 HoF. Can you do the math?
DNY21 2 years ago
TY fore listing borderline guys, I specifically mentioned "sure thing" guys. Paul and Howard are not there yet, and Robinson, Drexler, Barkley, Pierce Payton, Iverson and Kidd are not sure things. I might give you KG just to be charitable.
I can do the math, I can also do some real analysis.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
DNY21 2 years ago
You apparently don't understand the idea of DILUTION. Phil did have "less" but in his era it was actually MORE. Again, he had 40% of the guaranteed HoF players of his era, Red had much less than that. And since you only needed two stars to win a title in today's era with today's rules, Phil had much, much more!
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
BTW, Red may have had more HoF but he also fuckin' found them and made them that. Red said it himself that he found players to fit HIS style of basketball. So it is clear that Red made all of them HoF because they won so fuckin' much.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
And please, stop bringing up the argument that Phil never built a team. Red did it, because he could, not only coach a team, but manage it, too. Phil didn't have that power. The GM is the one that builts a team, not the coach.
DNY21 2 years ago
It's not an argument, it's a fact that Phil never built a team (Phil even acknowledged this himself). Phil not having that power implies that he was lucky to get the talent he had to win. If he coaches Memphis to a title with their idiot GM, I might give him more credit. Even Pat Riley did more with less than Phil.
BTW, if he was such a great coach, then how come he was dismissed TWICE? If you refuse to answer this question, we'll know how weak your side actually is.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
He is a coach! Not a GM! The GM gives the coach the keys to work on. Riley did more than Phil with less? Are you serious? Riley won four titles in 9 years as a coach of a Lakers team that had TWO top 10 players. Didn't win with Ewing, another great center. Won in Miami with another top 10 player (Shaq) and one of the best players in this generation (Wade), that makes THREE top 10, with just 5 titles. Jackson with just two top 10 (Kobe is not top 10), has 10 titles. Riley had more and did less!
DNY21 2 years ago
Riley took a Knicks team with 0 stars (Ewing is not a star) and led themk to the NBA Finals. It was Riley's system which helped the Knicks get there. Just for this coaching job alone, Riley is better than Phil who always coached the best player in the league and still found new and ever more embarrassing ways to LOSE!
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Why was he dismissed? Well, for starters, in case you didn't know, owners don't get rid of a coach just because he is a bad coach, personal reasons also had something to do with that. In Phil Jackson case, BOTH times the owner didn't want him on his team was for personal reasons. Do you know how many good coaches have been fired? Owners tend to blame everything on the coaches.
DNY21 2 years ago
Typical ESPN trying to kiss Laker ass to get higher ratings. What a fuckin' joke.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
No wonder the NBA audience is going in the toilet.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
bulls didn't win a title until phil jackson took the head coaching job, the lakers had shaq, kobe, eddie jones vanexel in 96 and phil signed on in 99 and won the title his first year!!! for someone to say that phil only wins because he's had great players which team wins a title without great players?
nickloks 2 years ago
phil has too many rings for all fingers now
masonvega114 2 years ago 2
i dont know how many fingers you have but phil has 10 so he does NOT have to many rings for all his fingers!~
nickloks 2 years ago
Actually, masonvega114 is right. You see, Phil won 2 rings as a player as well. In other words, he has 12 rings.
Huesos138 2 years ago
we're talking about his coaching rings!!! we all know he won with the knicks
nickloks 2 years ago
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ace11rothstein 2 years ago
And you have not enough brain cells for your skull.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Phil didn't develop MJ or Shaq's greatness,
Mike Greenberg is right about more rivalry with LESS teams.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Jalen is an illiterate twit.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
what a hater!!! and same acre rothstein is literate huh?? fuckin prick!!! get the fuck outta here with that casino name, use your own pussy!
nickloks 2 years ago
Oh no, we got one of the DeVry rejects doing commentary. Shouldn't you be looking for yo' crack ho mama so she can hook you up on some ends.
LMAO.
Bitch, hide behind your internet screen and your parents basement. You ain't shit, just like Phil, just like Jalen.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
hide behind my internet screen? lol isn't that what you're doing?
OWNED
nickloks 2 years ago
No I didn't threaten you so I don't have to fuckin' hide. BTW, glad to see you layed off the ebonics white boy.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Oh no, we got one of the DeVry rejects doing commentary. Shouldn't you be looking for yo' crack ho mama so she can hook you up on some ends.
LMAO.
Bitch, hide behind your internet screen and your parents basement. You ain't shit, just like Phil, just like Jalen.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
I don't need to use my pussy when I go yo moms right here.
OWNED!!!
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Sorry, he fuckin' is. Ask him to complete a sentence without stumbling.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
I agree with that guy, Phil builds his players. Jordan/Shaq/Kobe had talent, but what player doesn't???? Like the other guy said, it's a pre-requisite for a championship team to have talent. I think the main difference is that Phil is good at building championship chemistry into his team. And remember this is not just about Jordan or Shaq or Kobe, this is about the TEAM. If you watch the 2008 post-season laker games, you see a TEAM. THAT is why they won.
gukonni 2 years ago
I meant to say the 2009 post-season, but 2008 is another example of him building this team up. Part of him building them up, is just encouraging them to build themselves. There's something about Phil that brings out the best in his team.
Many naysayers says there's nothing special about Kobe or Shaq or Jordan. They point to all hte great players in the NBA, present and past. They say they're just the NBA's poster child. I agree. Most of hte great players have the ability to be a Jordan or Kobe.
gukonni 2 years ago
..... But it takes someone like Phil to complete the chemistry, to MAKE the KOBE, to MAKE the TEAM. He's just the basketball equivalent of a chemist.
gukonni 2 years ago
Stan Van Gundy says Phil is incomprehensible. He said he's won 51 finals-series. Only about 20 coaches have won 50+ finals-games.
gukonni 2 years ago
not finals series, playoff series if they were all finals series phil would have 51 rings.
jayc008 2 years ago
Stan Van Gundy is perhaps the worst coach in Finals history. A recommendation from him I'd avoid like the plague.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Only coach to win 10 NBA titles, I'd say he's the best coach of all time.
leetraver 2 years ago 3
Definately Phil; much harder to win numerous times now
jalen delivers a great argument when he says, "with 30+ teams, there is a much greater room for error"
aryien17 2 years ago
Actually with 30 teams and dilution of talent and ALL the ASSISTANT COACHES, it's EASIER.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
No there is not. Sure it is easier to lose on any one night but over a course of a season, it is much harder to coach against a team you see 12 times a year. That's why games btwn division rivals in the NFL are much harder to coach than the others.
ace11rothstein 2 years ago
Not to many coaches can compare to Phil Jackson. Who knows what will happen 20 or 30 years later but as of now, he is clearly the greatest NBA coach of all time.
ez0429 2 years ago
I totally agree with Jalen on everything he said here. Right now, the Lakers are just one win away from winning the Finals. If they win, there will be no doubt whatsoever who is the greatest NBA coach of all time.
DNY21 2 years ago