The Isaiah Scroll - Part 1 of 2 - Isaiah 7:14

[pretoshohmoofc]

Do you know why the Hebrew Scribes translated maiden in the Hebrew into the Septuagint as virgin?

Answer: Because they knew what it meant.

Do you know why the first century Jews translated Isaiah 7:14 into Matt 1:26 as virgin?

Answer: Because these first century Jews ALSO, knew what it meant.

[egwpisteuw]

Great video. However, I have to disagree with the עלמה vs בתולה distinction. These are synonyms and both can mean virgin or young woman (maiden). It depends on the context. In Is 7:14, the context clearly means a virgin, otherwise the verse is rendered meaningless, for it cannot be an אות unless it is a virgin. The the Elders who translated the Septuagint were reading עלמה and tranlsated it correctly as παρθένος.

[ancienthebreworg]

@egwpisteuw Thank you, and I agree that these two Hebrew words are synonyms and it all comes down to interpretation based on context. The question is, is the sign an almah giving birth or a child being born named Immanuel. With the former you are correct, almah must be understood as a virgin. But if it is the latter, then almah can be just a young woman and not a virgin.

[egwpisteuw]

@ancienthebreworg I see your point. If the child being born Immanuel is the sign then the verse is parallel to Isaiah 9:6.

My opinion is that the sign is actually both the Virgin Birth AND the child being born Immanuel. I think that Matthew's explantion of Isiaih 7:14 in Matthew 1:18-25 brings out both aspects: The child is conceived of God the Holy Spirit and thus the sensus plenior of "Immanuel = God with Us" and that Mary was a virgin.

[Asherite8]

@ancienthebreworg I'm sorry, but if you reasearch "almah" in the Hebrew text, as well as the Aramaic Targums and Peshita, you'll see that it actually refers to a YOUNG VIRGIN that still resides with her parents, or is completely untouched by men. Furthermore, the Masorets changed the name "YHWH" to "adonai" in 134 places within the Hebrew text. -Y'shiahu 7:14 was just one of them. Please research a little more before posting such information as to not cause spiritual confusion. Shalom akhi.

[Surfxeo]

@egwpisteuw I also agree with you. Especially taken in context with the books of Moses where we find the law. The culture of the early Hebrews was very strict when it came to following holiness. Adultary and fornication could be capital punishments so this enforced the concept of a young maiden being virgin because otherwise she and the offender could punished severly. Young maiden is therefore always virgin.

[egwpisteuw]

@Surfxeo Thanks for your comment. I am actually just about to do a video on this--I've been planning to do one for a while. The crux of my video will be that Gen 24 refers to Rebekah as both a בתולה (bethulah) in Gen 24:16 and an עלמה (almah) in Gen 24:43 both of which are translated as παρθένος (parthenos) in the Septuagint. I see this as irrefutable linguistic proof that the the two Hebrew words are synonyms. You have provided the correct cultural proof.

[andregaucho1]

@egwpisteuw I agree, we also must have in mind that the Septuagint was written by Greek speaking Hebrews

[MrSuperEman]

i got a question, hopefully it's answered, what is the different between "mighty one" or "almighty?"

[ancienthebreworg]

@MrSuperEman The Hebrew word אל (el) means mighty or a mighty one. The English word "All Mighty" or Almighty is a translation/interpretation of the Hebrew El Shaddai which literally means "my mighty breasts." I guess the translators thought breasts was to risque so they sanitized it :-)

[MrSuperEman]

@ancienthebreworg thank you for the answer!! your videos are amazing and it really opens the originality of the word and its meaning. The more I learn, the more the english translation takes away its intent. In some way, I think I am bothered by this in some sense. Thank you again!

[MrViTopol]

@ancienthebreworg the seer simply tells the king : '' mighty one will give you a sign, and a maiden ( from your harem) gets pregnant and give you a child, and you (king) will exclame : el is with us (the king 's way of saying ''with me''). this little seer's nugget is intended to cheer up the depressed and sick king giving the old fart a solace he'd still bang one of his harem concubines (''alma''), gets a baby and in amazement he (the king) mumbles - el is with us (with me)...

[XDragasesX]

the history of the only 1000 year old Masoretic text was that it is rabidly anti-Christian and was conceived because the Jews were tired of having the Psalms etc. thrown back in their face

[777jordan]

Also, the translation for 7:14 from the Masoretic should read "My Lord" will give you a sign, otherwise it would've read "ha adon"

[gilgalbiblewheel]

I wonder if the prophecy's first fulfillment is meant for Ahaziah and Isaiah's time because what's the point if Isaiah is giving a sign which will fulfill centuries later if Pekah and Rezin are ready to invade Judah within days?

[hummbug1]

exactly they were all virgins before marriage otherwise theyd be stoned so nice try bub.

[tomopotamus]

Could it be possible that the Septuagint translated the word as "virign" because that is what the Jewish people at that time saw the verse/prophecy as meaing? Just a thought I had during the video.

[ancienthebreworg]

@tomopotamus Yes, the is a very real possibility.

[777jordan]

@ancienthebreworg doesn't parthenos not necessarily mean virgin and couldn't you argue that greek readers before Christ understood it to mean young woman as well by the immediate context?

[zackrowe1]

@tomopotamus yea there were no hoochies like today the unmarried were virgins. the maidens were automatically virgins

[PantheraAtrox]

Fascinating.

Thx 4 the share.

[PrinceWalter]

In Genesis 24:43, Isaac recounts that "ha almah" fulfilled a sign.

In Genesis 24:16, we are told that "ha almah" of v. 43, who fulfilled the sign, was a "bethulah" (virgin).

[paulgem123]

Hi Jeff great video, Could you post this video on my video "Isaiah 7:14 Almah/Betelah or Na'arah"

Please feel free to correct anything I might have wrong. See the (more info) additional notes too. Thanks so much in Y'shua.

Ray

[theruteger]

The Aramaic Peshitta reads a bethula will give birth here, when was it translated and was it likely a translation of the LXX?

[ancienthebreworg]

I believe that the Aramaic Peshitta is a translation from the Hebrew, not the Greek. However, there is evidence that some Hebrew manuscripts for this passage did have betulah, while others had almah.

[gregoryfl]

@ancienthebreworg Could you point me to any resources that provide evidence that some Hebrew manuscripts contained betulah? I believe this is true but am trying to find any evidence pointing to it.

Thanks

[ancienthebreworg]

There are no Hebrew texts that use betulah, only almah, which is a synonym of betulah. However, as pointed out before, the Aramaic use of betulah points to a lost Hebrew source that used betulah rather than almah.

[Russellt0228]

yes the misunderstanding was neccessery for the greek-thinker. as the virgin birth is a huge symbol in the pagan myths. in judaism god-man and god impregnating a virgin is heretical

[XSErotic]

I'm an agnostic , however I have studied the bible and your observation of "partthenos" fails to mention that in the LXX , Dinah , Jacob's daughter was identified as a "parthenos" , after she was raped . This rape incident , led to the sons of Jacob slaughtering the assailants whole tribe ..

I doubt Dinah was a virgin after she was raped , especially seeing her family's response to the rape . More , the LXX as it stands today is a product of the church , not so much a Jewish document anymore.

[Mencel89]

If memory serves me correct, parthenos can mean just a young woman. but even if that is the case. you said that the authors of the LXX was probably looking at a text that said betulah. Odd enough there is a text that does say that. The Armaaic Pshitta TaNaKH.

[ancienthebreworg]

I think I remember hearing that somewhere. It would appear that the Septuagint is using the same source as the Peshitta, but a different source than what the Masoretic text came from.

Isn't Textual Criticism fun? :-)

[deborahbetty58]

Quote: 'Textual Criticism fun? :-) it's fun idd. However, what's not so funny, is that ppl don't go at length to study the original text themselves objectively. Henceforth, copy & paste in their minds, what they came across second hand. Giving way to sexism and prejudice. And as I understand from a previous vid of yours; the Hebrew mindset in those day was rather practical; either youre a virgin or your not. And euphemisms like a young maiden, within an eagle-eye (:macho) society like in those

[deborahbetty58]

days, does refer to a virgin. Or else youre not a maiden anymore young or old. Nevertheless, I still find it bitter to watch and read the same condemning attitude towards women (young, old, virgin or not) in virtually all kinds of Christian, Non-Christian, Hebrew Israelite, Messianic Jews and Talmudic Jewish denominations and individuals. Not realizing what Did Yahshua HaMashiach/Jesus the Christ, Do in practice concerning Israelite and Gentile women alike? He included them within

[deborahbetty58]

His salvation, because He tested their minds and judged their hearts, and not their gender or virginity or lack thereof (Jer. 17:19,20). Shalom.

[ancienthebreworg]

Excellent point medievalman, I looked it up and you are correct, parthenos is used for Dinah. Thank you.

[medievalman86]

Gen 34:1-3, Partheons in the LXX is used here (if memory serves) for dinah after she has been defiled, hence parthenos can mean non virgin too? I think i have the right passage/word

[brainouty]

Excuse me, but you're quoting Genesis 34 out of context. She WAS a virgin at the point of Genesis 34:1-3.  That was BEFORE the rape.

[brainouty]

Gen 34:3 is explanatory of why he raped her.

[medievalman86]

read it again, U r wrong... she is defiled, then she is pursued as a wife. where she was refered to as parthenos.

[brainouty]

NO, medievalman86, I read it in both the Hebrew and the Greek, but even in translation you can tell it's an EXPLANATION of why he raped her, so the 'aspect' of the sentence in verse 3 is PRE-rape. Hebrew discourse often provides the explanation FOR an event, after the event is listed, as it does in Genesis 2, explaining Genesis 1.

Besides, Bible itself tells you that Isaiah 7:14 is fufilled by Mary (Matt1:23 quotes the LXX), so this discussion about Dinah is pedantic.

[medievalman86]

no, Isa 7:14 is fulfilled in the subsequent chapters of Isa...... you think im misreading Genesis.. try reading Isa Chapter 7-9... the xian interpretation is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of context there...

[brainouty]

medievalman86, dual-fulfillment of prophecy is well known. Isaiah's wife was the near fulfillment, and Mary the far-fulfillment. This debate we're having is about what the TEXT says, not about religion or interpretation. The text of Mark 1:23 (and parallel NT passages) claims Isaiah 7:14 for Mary, too. Isaiah 7 does have a near-fulfillment, as that chapter relates. BOTH statements are in Bible, and true of the text.

[ancienthebreworg]

Thank you wayman :-)

[wayman29]

Hey this was great! Nice lesson.