Gandalf was a BEAST in the books. He was never afraid because he had the power of Valinor and of the Ring with him. Those details are under played in the films. This was literally his shining moment, when all hope was lost, Gandalf finds it again.
Gandalf's role in the books was the savior who swept in at the last moment to tie things together pretty much... thats how he was written and thats why he was in Middle Earth. When hope is lost, his Fire kindles the hearts of Men.
@TheNLguy no but in this scene it seems to me that he looks at gandalf and the others and how could he throw frodos mithril-armor directly to gandalf if he is blind??
@XxXdookuXxX as with many things or creatures in Tolkien's universe we cannot be sure of everything.
it is just that i as a Tolkienologist find it interesting to discuss whether certain things are as they may seem at first or if they are totally different. see Tolkienology is about discussing the different possibilities in Tolkien's universe. when speaking of certain things in Tolkien's universe which haven't been clearly stated in the book, always keep your mind open to different possibilities.
@TheNLguy maybe tolkien had writen this all we want to know in book and hided it and only his family knows where it is and one day maybe when the hobbit comes into cinema they will make it available for the public.....
I think that will be only a dream...unfortunately :((
maybe there are some scenes where he "powers down" Gandalf but if you look at other scenes you see that it's pretty balanced o0 he is one of my favourite characters in the film and in the book but I noticed no difference. PJ realy tried his best to make middle earth come to life and this would not have worked if he showed gandalf as a wizard making no mistakes, defeating every enemy and shooting around with lightnings >.< and remember: In the book he also fell in Moria.
I agree...this scene was slaughtered, like many of the best scenes involving Gandalf, I suspect to appeal to the Hollywood audiences. Its a shame that they didn't keep Tom Bombadil, Farmer Maggot, among others, and the premature death of Saruman was also a huge let down. (and what happened to the Shire, afterwards might have actually made people wake up to what's going on in this day and age). Typical Hollywood, though.
@coutureme1 I didn't think that Gandalf appeared weak at all. He may have been less flashy than in the books, but he always appeared as powerful and wise. More powerful than any other members of the Fellowship. He was deprived of his shining moment in the movies, but all in all I think you have to give Peter Jackson some Credit for bringing this difficult story on a cinematic screen so successfully.
@peri2502 Don't get me wrong, I obsessed about these movies for like 3 years straight. I LOVE what Peter Jackson did. I just particularily loved Gandalf, and wished he could of been displayed as more of a visual wizard in the film. The scene with he and the Witch King, I die for.
@coutureme1 As far as I have heard, PJ didn't want "traditional" wizards that shoot around lightning bolts and fireballs. I don't agree with his decision completely, but I suppose he wanted to make middle earth as realistic as possible and cutting down on magic was one of those ways. In one of his interviews he said he wanted to approach Middle Earth like an ancient but real place; a piece of history rediscovered. I guess that was his motivation to "power down" Gandalf.
So the motive for lessening Gandalfs power was to make middle earth more "realistic"?
What about Balrogs that are surrounded by shadow and flame. I guess that's quite realistic too? A wizard on top of a tower, shooting down fireballs and summoning huge thunderstorms? Realistic, I'd guess.
A giant, 4 meter tall guy, wielding a huge mace. A huge eye on top of a 2 mile high tower. Just a few examples. No, I think he lessened Gandalfs power on purpose in ROTK, to shift the focus to Frodo.
@The4Experience Well you would have to ask Peter Jackson in the end to get an answer to that. I think PJ just wanted to avoid the classic Fireball whirling, lightning bolt shooting wizard stereotype that you see very often in games and movies nowadays. My guess is that he wanted to differentiate Middle Earth from that kind of pop culture magician and approach it in a more "realistic'' (insert gritty is you wish) way.
Yes, that might be so. Nevertheless he did make Saruman shoot a Fireball once, and he did make Gandalf the grey whirl lightning with his sword Glamdring agains the Balrog.
I guess I just never will understand the ways of Peter Jackson :)
Guess that falls into the category "artistic freedom", hehe.
@todorius I am with you when it comes on that. I would have liked to see Gandalf doing a bit more wizardy stuff in the movie myself. However, I'm glad it didn't turn into Dungeons & Dragons in middle earth. Not saying that there wouldn't have been alternatives to that. In the end I think we both can agree that he made a really decent movie? ;)
@jdavz1803 well, you have to keep in mind that there is only so much they can put into a 3 to 4 hour movie. Ultimately, what significance did Tom Bombadil truly have for the whole story? Same with Farmer Maggot. I would have made some thing differently, too, but getting everything from the book into the movie would have made a 40 hour trilogy and that is simply not a commercial reality. Sad, but true.
One rather pedantic point: Gandalf gets rid of the Mouth of Sauron by talking in the Black Speech - not something that would scare the Mouth of Sauron, one would think, otherwise the poor fellow would be a gibbering wreck by now!
This scene in the movie didn't make Aragorn look like a hero! I think killing the mouth of sauron from behind was a cowardly thing to do, however evil he was. I'm glad it didn't happen in the theater, and of course it didn't in the book. Your clips are an improvement, excluding the German part
I think they tried to make Aragorn look like a hero in GANDALF'S scene, in the movie. Wasn't Gandalf supposed to burst into light or something and TAKE the chainmail from the Mouth of Sauron?
Yeah, it was supposed to be Gandalfs big moment, like in the book. But this is again an example of how Peter Jackson lessened Gandalfs Power and made him look weak, and take the focus away from him towards other characters.
Yes, he is always making Aragorn look like some sort of superhero like the books were written for Aragorn alone. He has his moment...but thats not enough
@todorius :D other people who get it- thank Christ.
Didn't the Witch King break Gandalf's staff in these ridiculous movies? And why have them murder The Mouth? Why is that satisfying? I found Gandalf intellectually devouring him much more satisfying in the books. I think I'd rather get murdered than embarrassed that hard.
One change I didn't mind in Return of the King was the fusion of the "No touch of grass..." and "I can carry you!" speeches. I thought that worked really well.
@john006a i agree they didnt make gandalf as amazingly awesome as he was in the books, the movies where alright but they cut out alot of very important scenes, and never finished the scene where aragorn fights sauron. The troll he fights in the end was supossed to be sauron lol
@EdikShepherd to be completely honest i cant remember, its been a really long time since ive read them =/ But wouldnt it be an amaizing fight if so =P Its been like 3 or 4 years since i have read the books, but if u want ill reread that part and tell u
@john006a in this extended edition gandalf's staff was broken by the witch king during the siege on minas tirith right before Theoden comes with his armies at dawn. So you might notice that that time and forward Gandalf is no longer filmed with his staff (exept one scene after the ring is destroyed). I looked for that bit where his staff is broken but i could not find it.
das ist die stimme von diego von ice age ^^ - thomas fritsch - er hat auch niels in findet nemo, den vater von bambi, lukas von jim knopf und Mr. Ollivander in HP gesprochen. außerdem ist er in der pro7-märchenstunde :D
I don't mean to sound mean but with the Mouth of Sauron speaking in German he sounds more evil. Also it follows the book better then the movie since Aragon did not kill the Mouth of Sauron.
it was kinda weird in the movie for mordor to just open their gate lol. If I was Sauron id be like... no.... they have no siege equipment or anything. And whyd the gate open again after the mouth??
I got a hell of a shock when they all started speaking German!
GiantTurtlesEye 2 months ago
Gandalf was a BEAST in the books. He was never afraid because he had the power of Valinor and of the Ring with him. Those details are under played in the films. This was literally his shining moment, when all hope was lost, Gandalf finds it again.
Gandalf's role in the books was the savior who swept in at the last moment to tie things together pretty much... thats how he was written and thats why he was in Middle Earth. When hope is lost, his Fire kindles the hearts of Men.
ja2011ec 3 months ago
@todorius THAT IS NOT SAURON asshole
hardyfanno1 4 months ago
Bloody german movies always...
Marck2895 4 months ago
Err German, should be named World War of Middle Earth then?
xyzSethzyx 7 months ago
Furchtbare Synchro.
twooffour 8 months ago
Very well.
ChamberlainNeville 9 months ago
can the mouth of sauron actually see through that helmet?
TheNLguy 1 year ago
@TheNLguy I think he's blind.
codafett 1 year ago
@TheNLguy yes he can
XxXdookuXxX 5 months ago
@XxXdookuXxX is it stated anywhere in the book?
TheNLguy 5 months ago
@TheNLguy no but in this scene it seems to me that he looks at gandalf and the others and how could he throw frodos mithril-armor directly to gandalf if he is blind??
XxXdookuXxX 5 months ago
@XxXdookuXxX well we do have to take into consideration that he is a black numenorean empowered by Sauron, a maia of high rank.
therefore it is possible that he cant see but that he can sense things.
TheNLguy 5 months ago
@TheNLguy yes thats a point that he can sense things. but why are you so sure that he is blind??
XxXdookuXxX 5 months ago
@XxXdookuXxX as with many things or creatures in Tolkien's universe we cannot be sure of everything.
it is just that i as a Tolkienologist find it interesting to discuss whether certain things are as they may seem at first or if they are totally different. see Tolkienology is about discussing the different possibilities in Tolkien's universe. when speaking of certain things in Tolkien's universe which haven't been clearly stated in the book, always keep your mind open to different possibilities.
TheNLguy 5 months ago
@TheNLguy only three words : YOU ARE RIGHT!!!!
XxXdookuXxX 5 months ago
@XxXdookuXxX perhaps, we will never know :P
TheNLguy 5 months ago
@TheNLguy maybe tolkien had writen this all we want to know in book and hided it and only his family knows where it is and one day maybe when the hobbit comes into cinema they will make it available for the public.....
I think that will be only a dream...unfortunately :((
XxXdookuXxX 5 months ago
maybe there are some scenes where he "powers down" Gandalf but if you look at other scenes you see that it's pretty balanced o0 he is one of my favourite characters in the film and in the book but I noticed no difference. PJ realy tried his best to make middle earth come to life and this would not have worked if he showed gandalf as a wizard making no mistakes, defeating every enemy and shooting around with lightnings >.< and remember: In the book he also fell in Moria.
facesx3 1 year ago 4
I agree...this scene was slaughtered, like many of the best scenes involving Gandalf, I suspect to appeal to the Hollywood audiences. Its a shame that they didn't keep Tom Bombadil, Farmer Maggot, among others, and the premature death of Saruman was also a huge let down. (and what happened to the Shire, afterwards might have actually made people wake up to what's going on in this day and age). Typical Hollywood, though.
jdavz1803 2 years ago
@jdavz1803 I couldn't agree more. It still bothers me to this day. Gandalf was cheated.
coutureme1 1 year ago
@coutureme1 I didn't think that Gandalf appeared weak at all. He may have been less flashy than in the books, but he always appeared as powerful and wise. More powerful than any other members of the Fellowship. He was deprived of his shining moment in the movies, but all in all I think you have to give Peter Jackson some Credit for bringing this difficult story on a cinematic screen so successfully.
peri2502 1 year ago
@peri2502 Don't get me wrong, I obsessed about these movies for like 3 years straight. I LOVE what Peter Jackson did. I just particularily loved Gandalf, and wished he could of been displayed as more of a visual wizard in the film. The scene with he and the Witch King, I die for.
coutureme1 1 year ago
@coutureme1 As far as I have heard, PJ didn't want "traditional" wizards that shoot around lightning bolts and fireballs. I don't agree with his decision completely, but I suppose he wanted to make middle earth as realistic as possible and cutting down on magic was one of those ways. In one of his interviews he said he wanted to approach Middle Earth like an ancient but real place; a piece of history rediscovered. I guess that was his motivation to "power down" Gandalf.
peri2502 1 year ago
@peri2502
So the motive for lessening Gandalfs power was to make middle earth more "realistic"?
What about Balrogs that are surrounded by shadow and flame. I guess that's quite realistic too? A wizard on top of a tower, shooting down fireballs and summoning huge thunderstorms? Realistic, I'd guess.
A giant, 4 meter tall guy, wielding a huge mace. A huge eye on top of a 2 mile high tower. Just a few examples. No, I think he lessened Gandalfs power on purpose in ROTK, to shift the focus to Frodo.
The4Experience 9 months ago
@The4Experience Well you would have to ask Peter Jackson in the end to get an answer to that. I think PJ just wanted to avoid the classic Fireball whirling, lightning bolt shooting wizard stereotype that you see very often in games and movies nowadays. My guess is that he wanted to differentiate Middle Earth from that kind of pop culture magician and approach it in a more "realistic'' (insert gritty is you wish) way.
peri2502 9 months ago
@peri2502
Yes, that might be so. Nevertheless he did make Saruman shoot a Fireball once, and he did make Gandalf the grey whirl lightning with his sword Glamdring agains the Balrog.
I guess I just never will understand the ways of Peter Jackson :)
Guess that falls into the category "artistic freedom", hehe.
todorius 9 months ago
@todorius I am with you when it comes on that. I would have liked to see Gandalf doing a bit more wizardy stuff in the movie myself. However, I'm glad it didn't turn into Dungeons & Dragons in middle earth. Not saying that there wouldn't have been alternatives to that. In the end I think we both can agree that he made a really decent movie? ;)
peri2502 9 months ago
@jdavz1803 well, you have to keep in mind that there is only so much they can put into a 3 to 4 hour movie. Ultimately, what significance did Tom Bombadil truly have for the whole story? Same with Farmer Maggot. I would have made some thing differently, too, but getting everything from the book into the movie would have made a 40 hour trilogy and that is simply not a commercial reality. Sad, but true.
peri2502 1 year ago
I only uploaded this scene in my language : FRENCH ^^
It's not so bad in german ;)
quentinovich69 2 years ago
One rather pedantic point: Gandalf gets rid of the Mouth of Sauron by talking in the Black Speech - not something that would scare the Mouth of Sauron, one would think, otherwise the poor fellow would be a gibbering wreck by now!
PuissantAlgernon 2 years ago
This scene in the movie didn't make Aragorn look like a hero! I think killing the mouth of sauron from behind was a cowardly thing to do, however evil he was. I'm glad it didn't happen in the theater, and of course it didn't in the book. Your clips are an improvement, excluding the German part
TheGrimAvenger 2 years ago
I think they tried to make Aragorn look like a hero in GANDALF'S scene, in the movie. Wasn't Gandalf supposed to burst into light or something and TAKE the chainmail from the Mouth of Sauron?
I hate when people do that.
john006a 2 years ago 5
Yeah, it was supposed to be Gandalfs big moment, like in the book. But this is again an example of how Peter Jackson lessened Gandalfs Power and made him look weak, and take the focus away from him towards other characters.
todorius 2 years ago
Yes, he is always making Aragorn look like some sort of superhero like the books were written for Aragorn alone. He has his moment...but thats not enough
john006a 2 years ago
@todorius :D other people who get it- thank Christ.
Didn't the Witch King break Gandalf's staff in these ridiculous movies? And why have them murder The Mouth? Why is that satisfying? I found Gandalf intellectually devouring him much more satisfying in the books. I think I'd rather get murdered than embarrassed that hard.
One change I didn't mind in Return of the King was the fusion of the "No touch of grass..." and "I can carry you!" speeches. I thought that worked really well.
EatMyPwn 1 year ago
@todorius "Weak"? Maybe not weak but much rather "Controlled"
Muzzly1234 4 months ago
@john006a i agree they didnt make gandalf as amazingly awesome as he was in the books, the movies where alright but they cut out alot of very important scenes, and never finished the scene where aragorn fights sauron. The troll he fights in the end was supossed to be sauron lol
Shadowsilas 1 year ago
@Shadowsilas In the books, does Aragorn actually end up fighting a manifestation of Sauron?
EdikShepherd 1 year ago
@EdikShepherd to be completely honest i cant remember, its been a really long time since ive read them =/ But wouldnt it be an amaizing fight if so =P Its been like 3 or 4 years since i have read the books, but if u want ill reread that part and tell u
Shadowsilas 1 year ago
@john006a in this extended edition gandalf's staff was broken by the witch king during the siege on minas tirith right before Theoden comes with his armies at dawn. So you might notice that that time and forward Gandalf is no longer filmed with his staff (exept one scene after the ring is destroyed). I looked for that bit where his staff is broken but i could not find it.
TheNaater 1 year ago
das ist die stimme von diego von ice age ^^ - thomas fritsch - er hat auch niels in findet nemo, den vater von bambi, lukas von jim knopf und Mr. Ollivander in HP gesprochen. außerdem ist er in der pro7-märchenstunde :D
singingmagpie93 3 years ago
I don't mean to sound mean but with the Mouth of Sauron speaking in German he sounds more evil. Also it follows the book better then the movie since Aragon did not kill the Mouth of Sauron.
kyo90leap 3 years ago
you're right, German sounds evil. I told my Austrian friend but he got kinda offended even though it's true.
macnos 3 years ago
it was kinda weird in the movie for mordor to just open their gate lol. If I was Sauron id be like... no.... they have no siege equipment or anything. And whyd the gate open again after the mouth??
L00CIF3R 3 years ago
an interesting turn of events...
it's a good thing they cut this scene out (at least it's not in the regular versions)
because it's simply ridiculous.
Varda8 3 years ago