there is too much talk against error as it is, and a terrible dearth of the right kind of love that by its comparatively silent service would put error to shame and expose it without diatribe.
well, at least he makes the enemy the enemy within, ie OUR unbelief.
sound theology is part of the answer, but only part of it. the reason why people forsook sound theology is because it never satisfied so instead of obeying the sound doctrine and going to christ in person they reject sound doctrine, thru looking at the fruit of us who profess to be orthodox.
I doubt Mac can even address this, for to many sound preachers are bullies and screamers, bigots and hypocrites
if all MacArthur can do is offer more of the same dead letter that they reject because of our deadness of life he does not solve the problem he merely re iterates it.
WE do not know or love God. this is the root cause.
if we focus on lack of sound doctrine we are taking a step in the right direction but have not grasped what sound doctrine is for or even what at the end of the day, it is
Christ is accurately told of in a Book but he is NOT a book.
@Strefanasha Agreed. There is no such thing as salvation by theological correctness. Even though thinking about God is the most important thinking we can do.
@ilikezappa Maybe not the biggest threat, but one of the largest. Amazing too, since it was the Christian church that devised the scientific method, established more schools than any other people group in history, and followed scripture that repeatedly extolls the value of wisdom and knowlege. Rampant in America is junk science, public baby sitting schools and porn like Zappa.
@expertcompsci Hmm ,if your judgement is The music of Mr Zappa is mere porn , it probably follows that you think the world is two months old , DNA is a conspiracy against Jesus , Ted Haggard should not be burned at the stake ,and talking snakes are plausible.
Sounds like you belong in church...................
@ilikezappa Yes, I do belong in church. And Frank Zappa would object strenuously to stripping porn from his music. As for the other presuppositions: You don't know me. They all came from you.
@expertcompsci Well , I just assume that as you used the phrase "Junk Science" you probably are don`t agree with the world`s scientists that evolution is a hard fact,and by implication you dont have any specialist knowledge on the subject.Wild guess ? I wouldn`t strip any content from anyone`s music (unless it was an accordion obviously)
@ilikezappa "...world's scientists..." Disagree. I've been a scientist for 20 years. Like most extrapolations from theoretical biology, "evolution" is warm, fuzzy, soft, junk. It is no longer the best explanation for anything, even though several good drugs were developed based on that theory. That's science at work. Credit for this advancement belongs to scientists and the scientific method which, again was developed by the Christian church. (You're accordion remark was a blast.)
@expertcompsci Why thankyou ! I am glad you raised a smile ,and didn`t threaten to blow my house up like the Muslim Guy I somehow offended. I wouldn`t tell Mr Galileo or Mr Copernicus about the Christian Church`s proud record of advancing objective enquiry.
I guess from your YT name that you aren`t a Biologist? Would you agree a large majority of Biologists support evolution?
@ilikezappa Why thank me? Because its polite! (bada-bing-bada-boom) Yes, by the corny joke you can tell I'm a computer scientist. Like mathematicians from antiquity to now I model the Universe (and any multiverses) Before evolution was outdated by good research biologists our only biological explanations resembled "hey! this pattern matches that pattern" All the while that probability matched an explosion in a junk yard yielding a new 747 when the pieces fell back together.
@expertcompsci No ,that analogy is a strawman because A, evolution is powered by natural selection ,which is not a random process B You can`t quote probabilities without knowing all the variables (How many junkyards etc) and C they dont make 747`s any more
D because I say so ,and I am drunk ,therefore cannot be contradicted.............
@ilikezappa Yes, no process is "random". Show me how you arrive at a random number and I'll show you why its not random. Biology has the variables. Now all evolutionists need is one junkyard and an eternity of explosions (and reconfigurations) to produce a fully fueled and spooled-up (as we pilots say) ready for take off. But it certainly would not have a human on board or any living thing that was not living before the explosion.
@expertcompsci So something requires a designer merely because it complex? Would the designer not be more complex ,and therefore itself require a designer by that logical dead end? I suppose as well as being an "evolutionist" ,that makes me also a "gravitationalist" as gravity also has the acceptance of the worlds scientific community.
John is correct, so often today the question of Truth is asked with an almost incredulous tone as if to say that there is no truth. Please check out our video on this topic on our channel.
Because BISEXUALS are the ONLY ones that can CHOOSE between the 2 sexes!
Im pretty sure SOME of the HETEROS wouldnt like to hear the truth about their REAL sexuality and the only way to battle that is by becoming Homophobes.
REAL STRAIGHT PEOPLE are OK with gays cause their SECURE with their sexuality and dont feel threatened by gay people.
@haaakkkk2010 Very well put! But the correct spelling is "casuistic" law... just in case anyone wants to look it up. But again, very well "argumentation" or explanation.
Know enough gospel to even be saved.? How much gospel needs to be known.?Can saying, Jesus wept, with the Spirit be enough to save,? This intellectual Calvinism is the disgrace. Christ saves by His Word and Spirit ( true Calvinism ) He does not measure understanding or grade evangelical messages to equal the best person saved. A really good gospel preached does not mean a better person saved.Christ saves by Word and Spirit though we should preach with honor, maturity.
I agree John MacArthur is an amazing bible teacher. What bothers me is that we need
More people speaking out against false teachers and error today. Hands down there is no other pastor today who remains true to proclaiming the truth of scriptures and defending it to an ungodly American culture. We must all unite for the truth.
Talking so confidently he makes you think he knows what he is talking about. Well he does halfway at least, Christians have become ridiculous to say the least. But mainly its because skeptics have had enough and have found a podium (Internet) where they can preach without local punishment. Religions come and go, Christianity is no different.
Christ went through trials and tribulation also dude we get our righteousness because He lived a sinless life. John MacArthur is an awesome bible teacher dude.
This from a man who says clearly that the" blood" of Christ is not atonement.That Christ earned righteousness. He was not born perfectly righteous. If Christ became sacrifice by obedience to law, that is a work. If He became moral by obedience to law , results are a work moral gospel.How can you preach no works salvation, no morality salvation then believe Christ got to the cross through both means.? Christ was born righteous. He did not earn righteousness He was by blood sanctified from birth.
I have stopped reading Christian books and listening to pastors for almost two years. I decided it was time for me to know God`s word personally and stop having it feed to me. I downloaded the Bible into my IPOD and listen to it on my way to work. My Pastor teaches like John MacArthur, he does not compromise the word.. I came from a church that everything you did right or wrong God still loved you because of his grace.
@Darwinsman fair enough. Now go critique some more Christian videos and set us straight, we'll see the light some day my friend. Thanks for your concern.
@isaac407 Is that irony or sarcasm. I never can tell the difference, but to dismiss me so peremptorily shows a level of arrogance I have come to expect from the Christians on You-tube.
It amazes me how Christians, in fact all religious people, come on You-tube and make videos and comments containing outrageous claims regarding their beliefs and their monopoly on morality, without a single shred of evidence to back them up and then get upset when they are challenged to produce verifiable proof.
@Darwinsman I'm sorry, I was just joking. you said we have to agree to differ...so we do, that's all. I do appreciate that you are the very first atheist that doesn't call me every single filthy thing that come to their minds. Now you have to admit that the "Biblical Literacy" comment basically calls the Bible iliterate, thus us the same. Sorry again man didn't mean to be rude. if you want to discuss, fire away
@isaac407 1/3. I never use foul language. I believe that once you descend to that level, you have already lost the argument. I despair of the atheists who do that.
I must admit though, I've had some pretty foul things said by Christians.
One even told me that, because I would not:
"Embrace Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I was going to burn in the pit of fire for all eternity and the only thing he regretted was that he would not be there to watch me suffer, because he would be in heaven." Contd.
@Darwinsman Many so called "Christians" are simply following teachings but not transformed, therefore not Christians. Many of us are simply human and sometimes we do/say the wrong thing. The great majority, like me have certain attitudes that we still struggle with as we change. There are some that while I still love, i can't stand more than a few minutes if that.
“if heaven meant spending eternity with people like him, then heaven would be the real Hell,” but that’s about as strong as I get, unless seriously provoked.
As for the literacy of the bible. My issue is that some christians treat the bible as if it was literally true, when all the latest archaeological and historical research demonstrates that, even on a purely historical basis, the bible is, at the very least, seriously flawed. Cont’d.
@Darwinsman about heaven: the guy is, according to the Bible, accurate, but a real Christian does not boast in the suffering of others. My heart aches for people that never believe. many believe that it is their job to convert people and when it doesn't happen they say stupid things like that out of frustration or simply from a heart that has not been transformed at all. You post som good comments, I'll address the rest later today, all came in at once. good day.
@isaac407 3/3 There is now an abundance of verified independent evidence that most of the cornerstone bible stories, like Genesis, Noah’s Flood, The Exodus, etc. are mainly myths and legends, which appear only in the bible and writings derived from the bible.
As it is not considered valid in any school of research I know, to use any sole source to prove itself, then surely, at the very least, the veracity of the bible must at least come into question.
@Darwinsman (1)I can find an abundance of evidence that points to the contrary.You don't know if the flood happened or not. These so called experts don't know either. BTW the veracity of the Bible has come into question and still remains a bestseller, still people claim(me included) it has changed their lives, we loose friends, some loose their lifes, yet Jesus is still more famous than The Beatles. Why is that? In part because we have experienced something that is not written in a science book.
@Darwinsman (2)...because you don't know me it's not real to you. did all these other stories happen? I believe they did, but that's not what amazes me. what amazes me are the transformed lifes (mine included, if you only knew), it amazes me that a heart as hard and tormented as mine can find peace and be compassionate. It may not mean much to you, but to me and my wife and to my kids it does. they knew me as the biggest jerk, but not anymore. you like Darwin,I love Christ, and I don't care....
@Darwinsman (3) if the schools don't consider it valid. I believe in the God of the bible, yes, the invisible friend in the sky as atheists refer to Him. I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for without it I would be a total wreck. That's my evidence, friend, my own life. it was given back to me and I asure you I did not deserve it. I do wish that you could see what I see, but it is not my job to convince you, just to proclaim Christ as Lord of lords...Good night
@isaac407 1/7. It may surprise you, but I'm pleased that you get comfort from your faith. But that's what it is, blind faith.
Saying that you didn’t deserve your life saddens me. Everyone deserves a good life. If you've changed yours, I admire you, but personally, I think that by putting all the credit for your change to Jesus is doing a great disservice to yourself and your own strength of character. You should be proud of what you have achieved. Cont’d.
@Darwinsman Not being a Christian does not disqualify you from being compasionate, or even having a "good life". If I rob a store(never done that lol),do I deserve to be free?don't think so, yet,I could get probation, or another chance, or rehab vs jail, or like some time ago join the army or go to jail etc.That is called grace. that's what I mean by undeserving. Don't be sad,I'm grateful. I have been proud of what I've "achieved", misteriously the jerk is reborn LOL,no thanks :)
@isaac407 2/7 The fact that the bible is a best seller doesn't make it any more true than Jesus being more popular than The Beatles, which, to be honest, is a rather fatuous analogy.
The bible may be popular, but the facts speak for themselves. After over 150 yrs of exploration in Egypt, no evidence has been found of the Exodus, or even that the Israelites were ever in Egypt. This includes intensive research by Israeli Archaeologists who were sent into the Sinai after the 6 Day War. Cont’d.
@Darwinsman I didn't come up with that analogy...the Beatles did :). Studies: the problem is you and I are going to "believe" what we are predisposed to believe, unless something hits you personally. in this day and age ALL studies,reports and evidence are suspicious. global warming data has been manipulated, earth age doubles and triples every few years, missing links found are proven hoaxes every couple of years. So who do I believe? i'm not "discovering" anything, other people are....cont'd
@isaac407 3/7. They were given the specific task of finding evidence of the Exodus, to justify Israel’s claim to “The Promised Land”. To date, they’ve found no such evidence.
However, archaeologists have found that the Israelites were always a small Canaanite tribe and never actually left Canaan.
As for Noah’s Flood, throughout history, there have been and always will be, legends of floods, but there has never been any evidence found which proves a World Wide flood. Cont’d.
@Darwinsman ...so we can go back and forward about who is credible and what evidence is valid. A few years ago there was an exploration that suggested they could have found the path the Jews used to go across the parted sea, but like just about every single report and investigation, the findings were TADAAAA...inconclusive!
Not too long ago another archaeological team believed they found Noah's ark, but because of political and climate obstacles they couldn't prove it. So I am not going to...
@isaac407 4/7. In fact, Archaeology has found many places, even in the low lying areas of the middle east itself which shows conclusively an unbroken culture going back over 10,000 yrs, with not even a suggestion of a flood. I would be interested in the contrary evidence you say you have.
Unlike Christians, I am always prepared to be proved wrong and have been many times in my life, that is the way that true knowledge grows, but, like Thomas, I need evidence. Cont’d.
@Darwinsman ....give you all these 'findings" because you'll just, understandably so, give me the counter for them. Even the Holocaust needs to be 'proven" over and over, and that happened(or not) not that long ago in comparison. I compare myself to Thomas too (see, we have something in common), I too need evidence. Part of my evidence is a changed heart, yet you say "no, that's not what happened"!!! you don't believe because you can't stick your finger in the scars my past life left....cont'd
@isaac407 5/7. Faith does not give you answers. It only stops you asking the questions.
Even in the New Testament, there are great discrepancies.
The bible itself proves that even the Nativity could never have happened the way it is portrayed in the gospels.
As for Jesus the man. I’m quite prepared to accept that there was possibly a preacher around at that time with that name. It was a common Name. There were at least 3 high priests called Jesus. It is a derivation of Joseph. Cont’d.
@Darwinsman...sorry I didn't numbered my posts before, do'h!
Faith does not give me answers(agree again), it comes from answers. John the baptizer sends a follower to ask Jesus if he was the one. Jesus didn't say "tell him to read all the prophecies again". He said tell him of all the things you are witnessing. That's what i'm doing. telling you what I have witnessed for I cant attest for all studies and "conclusions" or what this christian said or did, or what this atheist said or did....
@isaac407 6/7. However, All the stories supposedly about Jesus, his parables and the miracles that he is supposed to have done, can be traced back almost word for word to earlier religions and writings.
There were over 40 writers and scholars who were active during Jesus’ lifetime, but not one of them even mentions him in passing. In fact there is no mention of Jesus, anywhere other than in the New Testament and writings derived from the gospels. Cont’d.
@Darwinsman Now keep this in mind: According to scripture, Jesus was crucified for blasphemy. wouldn't you think that writers of that time were reluctant to report about Jesus for fear of suffering similar punishment? plus crucifixion was common practice, Jesus was not the only one, but there are some historical accounts that do make mention of him, even if in passing. I may have to check on the parables being trace to someone else, i've heard that before but never checked on it
@isaac407 7/7. Further more, all the stories in the gospels were written 2nd and 3rd hand, by people who never ever met him.
There is also nothing in any official Roman record of his trial or crucifixion. In fact he is not mentioned at all in any contemporary official source.
Again, I would be grateful if you have any evidence that contradicts this.
@Darwinsman Matthew and John were His disciples, Mark and Luke were with Paul. Luke was a doctor that investigated and interviewed witnesses. Paul is qualified by Peter, another original follower, and writer of some of the letters(not always happy with Paul according to Scripture). the Acts is written by Luke as well. All except John died because they refused to renounce Christianity. I don't think many historians wanted to record all that because all the possible repercussions. Still happens!
@Darwinsman I believe the Bible literally, understanding that the original manuscripts are infallible, not the gazillion translations. That's where MacArthur fits in. He takes what we have and through study, understanding,years of dissecting what the Bible we have says, comparing what all the versions say, tries to give us what the originals meant to give us. he is not perfect, but he has proven to be faithful to the word of God so I trust him, but The Bible is my authority, not him .
"I believe the Bible literally""he Bible is my authority"
even when it says:
Exodus 21: 20 If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. 21 But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
@castelgandalf Hi there. I just wanted to point out that this is an example of causiatic law, meaning that it takes the greater principles of God's moral law and applies them to culture in case such a situation ever arose. However, giving a provision of this type does not condone slavery. Like divorce, God did not intend for humans to ideally live in this way. It should also be noted that slavery in Hebrew culture was much different than our idea of Antebellum slavery.
@haaakkkk2010 hello, thank you for answers, but god had no problem expressing his moral law directly when it came to "thou shall not kill" why not "thou shall not keep slaves"?
slavery much different? helot, serf, indentured servant, or slave, you own him, may beat him and he is compelled to work for you, these provision (exodus, deuteronomy, ephesians & more) do condone slavery. webster's def: to regard or treat as acceptable, forgivable or harmless. "shall not be punished".
@castelgandalf Your most welcome! Always a pleasure to debate topics. Slavery is, by definition, much different than murder (which is the commandment "thou shalt not kill" is referring to). Also, there were harsh punishments for masters who mistreated their slaves. This is because slavery in Jewish culture was often used as way to pay off debts. If a family was in debt, they would basically put themselves in service to their masters to pay off the debt. (1/2)
@haaakkkk2010 (2/2) After 7 years during Jubilee, the slaves would have the opportunity to be freed from the service of their masters. Indeed, it was not uncommon for slaves to opt out of freedom because sometimes living in the service of more wealthy masters was better living than struggling on their own. But from what it sounds like, the idea of being in the service of another is really what you have an issue with. The Bible also speaks to this. We are either slaves to sin or to (2/3)
@haaakkkk2010 ...or to righteousness. While the apostle Paul discouraged slavery in the physical, human sense, he understood that spiritually were in service to either evil or good. Jesus said that we either serve the Father in heaven, or we serve the father of lies (that is Satan). No matter what slavery, or servitude, or any role of submission is inevitable. These relationships are in and of themselves not bad, so long as we are serving the Holy God in doing so.
@haaakkkk2010 1-could you expand on the difference between murder and slavery?
2-if a master put out the eye or tooth of a slave, the punishment would be to let the slave go free, hardly harsh at all. in case he beat the slave with a club and the slave died within 2 days "he must be punished" but the punishment is not specified. if the slave survived 2 days, no punishment. do you have any specific reference i could read? i admit i haven't brushed up on my scripture lately.
@castelgandalf Certainly. As for 2, you could take a look at all of Exodus 21, particularly verses 1-6,12, 20, 26-27. You could also read ideas of "slavery" in the New Testement John 8:31-38, Colossians 3:22-25, and several others.
As for 1, I would say the two are very different. Slavery is a role a person fulfills in society, and an institution of such in a broader context. Murder is this willful taking of another's life. Slavery does not entail murder, nor does murder entail slavery. (1/2)
@haaakkkk2010 (2/2) A slave owner can go without murdering his slaves. Murder can occur in any relationship. Also as you just pointed out, their were punishments for owners who intentionally or unintentionally murdered their slave. Many renowned theologians and scholars of the Bible assert that the provisions of these laws concerning slavery were intended to restrain oppression and exploitation in light of man's hardness of heart and unwillingness to change their cultural practices. (2/3)
@haaakkkk2010 (Final part) Really, when viewed in this context, the provisions are an act of mercy on behalf of God. Helping us navigate such a upside-down and unideal relationship, that humanity refused to abolish because of their unwillingness to submit themselves to God, is really quite remarkable on His part considering he didn't have to save us at all. However, whether slavery exists or not, we will always be under authority as to God, so we'll always be required to submit to some authority
@haaakkkk2010 hi again. i had not received the notifications of the additional parts of your answers. i just saw the entire thread. thank you for your thorough answers, i will certainly read them carefully. peace.
@castelgandalf I believe that what is narrated in the Bible happenned(literally). The Bible is my authority in the matters of conduct and Christian living. I don't have any slaves, therefore this doesn't apply to me. In biblical times it was more of a social status, and contracts between parties. they sold themselves as a way of paying debts and providing for their families. This particular law was part of a broader guide on how slaves were to be treated. Context is the key, guy:)
@isaac407 (and anybody else who has participated in this thread) i think i understand where most of you are coming from, and from what i read here i can see you all try to be well behaved, moral people.
there is still slavery in the world (haiti, etc.) would you have an opinion if people owning slaves today argued that as long as they abide by the regulations in the bible, they were justified in keeping their slaves?
@castelgandalf fair question, They would be wrong. example: I owe you a $1000.00, I don't have any money, so I agree to work for you in whatever capacity for 7 years, you provide food, a place to stay and a decent way of living. With time I become like part of your family, a confidant, someone you trust. at the 7 year mark we have another contract:i stay with you forever, because it is convenient for both. That was most of the slavery back then. 17th century slavery? sinful!
@isaac407 thanx for your answer, and it is a good example.
i think many of us (atheists, secular humanists, what have you) protest a lot because 17th century slavery (18th &19th too) was in some cases justified by someone misguidedly pointing to the bible. also, many slaves in biblical times were prisoners of war.
then again others protest because they're trying to force the issue or pick a fight. i think this is one of the most rational and thoughtful conversations i've read online.
@castelgandalf it was my pleasure. there is a lot more than what I said here.
I used to be an atheist, One day I put my trust in Christ. I didn't try to be better nor moral nor good. My desires changed, my priorities changed. we may be pushy at times, because we want you to know what we know. We really do want to bring you in, it is our commission. we do it wrong sometimes because we want to convert you and that is not our job. Our job is to spread the Gospel, not to force it.
@k0smon no I'm just quoting a verse(since YOU called on His weakness). In context Paul is using a literary style (can't remember what is called) saying even if God was foolish and weak, He would still be stronger and wiser than us....
These are true and wise words. Everyone that's taking offense at these words and arguing back is taking sides with the Joel osteen heretics of this age. God bless you MacArthur.
repent, and take the LORD JESUS in your heart as saviour, believing GOD raised him from the dead, ROMANS CHAPTER 10 VERSE 9, let the bible speak itself, u dont need no one to tell u how to get to heaven, the bible tells u clearly. We are all sinners deserving hell, but thanksbe to GOD for sending JESUS and raising him from the dead, IT IS ALL FAITH, then the good works will start filling your life.
@rickw1100 Are you on drugs? Listen to John MacArthur and compare what he says with the Bible. He is anything but what you have accused him of. Seriously, I don't know what you are smoking.
The biggest threat to Christianity are charlatans like John MacArthur who bastardize the Gospel for want of greed and power. MacArthur is the embodiment of Matt. 7:15.
@Brucev7 "Amen. This gneration is the most Biblically illiterate. We must train them in the Word of God. "
It's their choice to be Biblically illiterate, no one is stopping them from getting a better education, do you want to bring back compulsory indoctrination of Christianity or maybe Islam?
Yeah, theres been a study on how america has dropped compared to other countries around the world in education, so no we are not that booksmart anymore thanks to our goverment.. So please dont say christians are the only uneducated people , that is just a hate induced lie. Shame on you!
@Belovedtita25 The studies on education are based on bad math. As a former teacher, let me share some real info with you: The U.S. is one of the few countries that allows everyone the chance to receive a free public education through high school. Many other countries do that through 5th or 6th grade then you have to be near the top of your class to go on. If you're not, you don't get to go on. So all of our students in the U.S. are compared to the top students in other countries. Apples/oranges.
amen John Macarthur. Unfortuantely the same thing has been going on for the 400 hundred years. This is the same exact fight tht Spurgeon faught in the downgrade controversy 200 years ago
The biggest threat to Christianity in America is when people get an education. Religion tends to thrive when people are dumb. Noah`s Ark? Yup seems real plausible......
The proof is in the pudding. Weak watered down preaching over the years has produced people like Joel Osteen, all of the Word of Faith preachers, Ed Young Jr., Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, the Emergent Church movement etc..etc...
@KevinTheMiracle It was from a Q and A session during one of the Ligonier National Conferences. Sorry I don't know which one, but all their national conferences are available for purchase from their website.
John MacArthur knows the bible well and he shares the word of God with others in a very easy to understand message. He also has the boldness to speak the truth of God's word when and where it needs to be spoken. My wife and I have both made personal decisions to receive Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior and to closely follow Jesus and His teachings as found in the bible. John MacArthur is helpful to us in our walk with the Lord, as we are sure he is helpful for many others.
John MacArthur and Sproul are unsaved, going to Hell, but they don't understand why. The reject the God of sufficient grace to all to give us the choice.
@howtowastemylife that is soooo true you take time with them and explain the scriptures and they just blow you off and you sit their and look at all the time you wasted
The church is losing power daily. People would rather shout and run around foam at the mouth then live a righteous life. People wanna hear ooooo Jesus loves you they way you are, you don't have to change your fine the way you are. Few are standing for Godliness and Holiness. The church needs a swift kick in the butt and wake up.
@AnnRKey You are wrong! There are many people who studied to prove Christianity a farce, only to prove to themselves the reality of it! If you are intellectually honest, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, or "Evidence that demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell.
@ultrapilot12 I've seen the documentary The Case for Christ. Strobel has nothing. Haven't seen anything by McDowell, but I've heard of him. I sincerely doubt he has anything either. What do you think is the strongest piece of evidence by either?
@AnnRKey becoming Christian does not dumb you down. I used to think the same way! I found out, and I was very pleasantly suprised that it is the opposite! Of course, it's hard to explain, but, there it is.
@helpmetony Perhaps I should clarify. I am not saying Christians are complete idiots, but, they are believing something that there is simply no evidence for and something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I was a Christian myself way back when after I had read the Bible in its entirety, so, it can happen to anybody. Please, try to explain. You can PM me if need be.
@AnnRKey I was raised Christian. Doesn't mean I had a conversion. Doesn't mean I understood. Doesn't mean I actually had a personal relationship with the supernatural God. I spent 30 years as an adult being agnostic at best. Absolutley no sense whatsoever? Is that your personal opinion? Of course it is. Try reading a law book. Sure, you can read every word maybe, but to interperet and understand it usually takes 8 years in law school. or you pay someone!
@helpmetony Yes, it makes no sense that an omniscient being would set up a system whereby its necessary to shed blood for the forgiveness of sin. It makes no sense to let people spend approx. 4000 years spilling the blood of animals when the only blood that will do is that of "His" son's. And then when "His" son finally does the final sacrifice, said Son then leaves for another approx. 2000 years and counting. BTW, I have read the NT three times cover to cover and the gospels about 7 times each.
@AnnRKey it makes no sense to YOU. But, are YOU an authority? Are any of us an authority? I don't believe so. Much doesnt make sense to me sometimes, but I will ask someone who has really studied, and I continue to learn. If we completety understood God, would we need HIm? Would He need us?
@helpmetony Correct, it makes no sense to ME. Should I believe something that doesn't make sense to me? Moreover, how could I believe something that doesn't make sense to me? This isn't rocket science. I have studied, but that really is irrelevant. The concept is simple and it doesn't make sense to me. It's rather embarrassing that it took so long for me to see it. Nevertheless, who do you recommend I ask? And how can I understand something that cannot be observed?
@AnnRKey perfect question!!! we cannot! That is because God is supernatual. Something happens when you fully suurender to God. Of course it sounds insane. I never could have been convinced myself before. Can you admit that the supernatural may exist as reality?
@helpmetony Let's try it this way: How can I surrender to a God that makes no sense? Sure, I'll admit the supernatural may exist. Can you admit that there may be an invisible elephant in my car port?
@AnnRKey no, but if I saw millions and millions of people over a 2000 year period worshipping it, praying to it, raising money and building hospitals and schools, feeding and clothing the poor across the globe, etc etc, I'd probably be very tempted to take a closer look.
@helpmetony But, no matter how close you get, it will still be invisible. And there would be many different sects giving different stories about what the elephant looks like. How would you know which is correct? Especially when they each say that theirs is the correct version and if you don't pick the right version, you're screwed.
Saddam Hussein did good things too. Should we overlook the shitty things he did because he did some good?
@AnnRKey I'm referring again to the supernaturalness of God.
If people believe in ghosts, ufos, etc, what's so crazy about the idea of a supernatural God? For a few decades, I was agnostic at best. I understand how difficult it is to come to terms with this idea. I guess what I'm saying here is don't close any doors.
@helpmetony I don't think there is anything "crazy" about believing in God per se. I do think it's crazy to believe in the God of the Bible. I'm closing any doors. The ball is in God's hands.
Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure".
@AnnRKey you are clearly missing the point of this scripture. If you are closing any doors, then perhaps our conversation is finished? I like your statement the ball is in Gods hands.
@AnnRKey "it's Gods good pleasure". Do you take everything literally? That would be a confusing life if we took everything literally. I cannot enlighten you, only you can enlighten you.
@helpmetony Do you take everything figuratively? That would be a confusing life if we took everything figuratively. If "it's Gods good pleasure" is meant to be taken figuratively, what does it mean?
Acts 8:30-31 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked. "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
@AnnRKey The bible is written Spiritually you need the Spirit of Truth to teach you in it. 1 Cor. 2:13-14 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
@Belongs2Christ How convenient. The Bible says the Bible cannot be understood except with a "special gift". No matter how you slice this one, the natural man is held blameless, for the he cannot know these "spiritual things".
Furthermore, the last passage states outright that the "Spirit" makes sense out of nonsense. Which is not surprising since these are the words of Paul, the author of the longest con in history.
@Belongs2Christ You answered my question with a question, nevertheless, I do not believe in anything that is not based on proof. Again, How can I have Faith in foolishness?
@AnnRKey "How can I have Faith in foolishness?" Your faith is in evolution, is that not a theory of man? Also it cannot be proven, yet it's not foolishness to you? So Christian Faith is foolish, but yours is not?
"I do not know how the universe came into existence and neither do you if it's a matter of faith." You say you don't know how the universe was created, but yet you know that God didn't create it? If you don't know how it was created, how do you know how it wasn't created?
You have Christians thinking they are Christians that don't have enough knowledge to be saved Huh?So how much knowledge does one need to be saved?So part of being saved is based on how much knowledge you can absorb?What I think he is saying is not enough pure preaching is being preached for man to be saved.But what if I said to someone, "Jesus wept",could they be converted?Absolutely! because Spirit and Word produce fruit of salvation.Do I think a better gospel should be preached yes.God saves
@polopowers1 knowledge is very important-having the right knowledge is a matter of life and death. As the Lord revealed in so many places. The truth that sets us free is the knowledge of Christ, it is even Christ. The Lord also showed us that: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Hosea 4:6
@polopowers1 The opening rebuke that the Lord gives through Isaiah is that Israel didn't know their God. It is knowledge that works salvation in man. Not a man-made reasoned knowledge that saves. But a God-revealed, Holy Spirit worked knowledge, by the sword of the Spirit which works salvation. It is, as Jesus spoke in John 15:3-it is the word (the knowledge thereof), spoken by him which makes one clean.
@polopowers1 At which point in the preaching of the true and pure word of the gospel that the Holy Spirit awakens the soul that was previously dead in sins is the province and peculiar work of God alone. But most assuredly, when the Spirit awakens that soul, the knowledge of who Christ is, who they are in relation to God, in a way that only the Holy Spirit can do as the Comforter, Counsellor, and revealer of God's purpose of grace in them will be accompanied by the knowledge of his word.
Did the Bible not say this would happen? The turning away from sound doctrine.
jebenn23 4 weeks ago
@jebenn23 Nothing sound about fundamentalist dogma....
ilikezappa 4 weeks ago
there is too much talk against error as it is, and a terrible dearth of the right kind of love that by its comparatively silent service would put error to shame and expose it without diatribe.
but this needs something none of us have,
MacArthur does not have it, that is for sure
Strefanasha 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Strefanasha you said......'there is too much talk against error as it is.'
You are insane........not enuf people satnding for the truth!!
willpower242 1 month ago
well, at least he makes the enemy the enemy within, ie OUR unbelief.
sound theology is part of the answer, but only part of it. the reason why people forsook sound theology is because it never satisfied so instead of obeying the sound doctrine and going to christ in person they reject sound doctrine, thru looking at the fruit of us who profess to be orthodox.
I doubt Mac can even address this, for to many sound preachers are bullies and screamers, bigots and hypocrites
Strefanasha 1 month ago
if all MacArthur can do is offer more of the same dead letter that they reject because of our deadness of life he does not solve the problem he merely re iterates it.
WE do not know or love God. this is the root cause.
if we focus on lack of sound doctrine we are taking a step in the right direction but have not grasped what sound doctrine is for or even what at the end of the day, it is
Christ is accurately told of in a Book but he is NOT a book.
OBEY the Book and seek The Spirit
Strefanasha 1 month ago 2
@Strefanasha Agreed. There is no such thing as salvation by theological correctness. Even though thinking about God is the most important thinking we can do.
expertcompsci 1 month ago
The biggest threat to Christianity in America is people going to school.
ilikezappa 1 month ago
@ilikezappa Maybe not the biggest threat, but one of the largest. Amazing too, since it was the Christian church that devised the scientific method, established more schools than any other people group in history, and followed scripture that repeatedly extolls the value of wisdom and knowlege. Rampant in America is junk science, public baby sitting schools and porn like Zappa.
expertcompsci 1 month ago
@expertcompsci Hmm ,if your judgement is The music of Mr Zappa is mere porn , it probably follows that you think the world is two months old , DNA is a conspiracy against Jesus , Ted Haggard should not be burned at the stake ,and talking snakes are plausible.
Sounds like you belong in church...................
ilikezappa 1 month ago
@ilikezappa Yes, I do belong in church. And Frank Zappa would object strenuously to stripping porn from his music. As for the other presuppositions: You don't know me. They all came from you.
expertcompsci 1 month ago
@expertcompsci Well , I just assume that as you used the phrase "Junk Science" you probably are don`t agree with the world`s scientists that evolution is a hard fact,and by implication you dont have any specialist knowledge on the subject.Wild guess ? I wouldn`t strip any content from anyone`s music (unless it was an accordion obviously)
ilikezappa 1 month ago
no "are" typo sorry
ilikezappa 1 month ago
@ilikezappa "...world's scientists..." Disagree. I've been a scientist for 20 years. Like most extrapolations from theoretical biology, "evolution" is warm, fuzzy, soft, junk. It is no longer the best explanation for anything, even though several good drugs were developed based on that theory. That's science at work. Credit for this advancement belongs to scientists and the scientific method which, again was developed by the Christian church. (You're accordion remark was a blast.)
expertcompsci 1 month ago
@expertcompsci Why thankyou ! I am glad you raised a smile ,and didn`t threaten to blow my house up like the Muslim Guy I somehow offended. I wouldn`t tell Mr Galileo or Mr Copernicus about the Christian Church`s proud record of advancing objective enquiry.
I guess from your YT name that you aren`t a Biologist? Would you agree a large majority of Biologists support evolution?
ilikezappa 1 month ago
@ilikezappa Why thank me? Because its polite! (bada-bing-bada-boom) Yes, by the corny joke you can tell I'm a computer scientist. Like mathematicians from antiquity to now I model the Universe (and any multiverses) Before evolution was outdated by good research biologists our only biological explanations resembled "hey! this pattern matches that pattern" All the while that probability matched an explosion in a junk yard yielding a new 747 when the pieces fell back together.
expertcompsci 1 month ago
@expertcompsci No ,that analogy is a strawman because A, evolution is powered by natural selection ,which is not a random process B You can`t quote probabilities without knowing all the variables (How many junkyards etc) and C they dont make 747`s any more
D because I say so ,and I am drunk ,therefore cannot be contradicted.............
ilikezappa 1 month ago
@ilikezappa Yes, no process is "random". Show me how you arrive at a random number and I'll show you why its not random. Biology has the variables. Now all evolutionists need is one junkyard and an eternity of explosions (and reconfigurations) to produce a fully fueled and spooled-up (as we pilots say) ready for take off. But it certainly would not have a human on board or any living thing that was not living before the explosion.
expertcompsci 1 month ago
@expertcompsci So something requires a designer merely because it complex? Would the designer not be more complex ,and therefore itself require a designer by that logical dead end? I suppose as well as being an "evolutionist" ,that makes me also a "gravitationalist" as gravity also has the acceptance of the worlds scientific community.
ilikezappa 1 month ago
John is correct, so often today the question of Truth is asked with an almost incredulous tone as if to say that there is no truth. Please check out our video on this topic on our channel.
hudsonvilleprc 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
JOHN MACARTHUR IS BISEXUAL !!!!!
PEOPLE WHO SAY that being GAY IS A CHOICE
MEANS that THEYRE BISEXUAL!
Because BISEXUALS are the ONLY ones that can CHOOSE between the 2 sexes!
Im pretty sure SOME of the HETEROS wouldnt like to hear the truth about their REAL sexuality and the only way to battle that is by becoming Homophobes.
REAL STRAIGHT PEOPLE are OK with gays cause their SECURE with their sexuality and dont feel threatened by gay people.
NuLaifMusic 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 Very well put! But the correct spelling is "casuistic" law... just in case anyone wants to look it up. But again, very well "argumentation" or explanation.
storpas 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Mr Macarthur is Satan's mouthpiece! Joel Olsteen needs to lay hands on him and drive the religious demons out of John! Amen and Amen!
aristotled1 3 months ago
Know enough gospel to even be saved.? How much gospel needs to be known.?Can saying, Jesus wept, with the Spirit be enough to save,? This intellectual Calvinism is the disgrace. Christ saves by His Word and Spirit ( true Calvinism ) He does not measure understanding or grade evangelical messages to equal the best person saved. A really good gospel preached does not mean a better person saved.Christ saves by Word and Spirit though we should preach with honor, maturity.
polopowers1 3 months ago
Comment removed
polopowers1 3 months ago
@ignitejc that is so true! ;)
Rochoa2884 3 months ago
I agree John MacArthur is an amazing bible teacher. What bothers me is that we need
More people speaking out against false teachers and error today. Hands down there is no other pastor today who remains true to proclaiming the truth of scriptures and defending it to an ungodly American culture. We must all unite for the truth.
igniteJC 3 months ago
Talking so confidently he makes you think he knows what he is talking about. Well he does halfway at least, Christians have become ridiculous to say the least. But mainly its because skeptics have had enough and have found a podium (Internet) where they can preach without local punishment. Religions come and go, Christianity is no different.
Darthreloy 4 months ago
Christ went through trials and tribulation also dude we get our righteousness because He lived a sinless life. John MacArthur is an awesome bible teacher dude.
mamainmancj 4 months ago
This from a man who says clearly that the" blood" of Christ is not atonement.That Christ earned righteousness. He was not born perfectly righteous. If Christ became sacrifice by obedience to law, that is a work. If He became moral by obedience to law , results are a work moral gospel.How can you preach no works salvation, no morality salvation then believe Christ got to the cross through both means.? Christ was born righteous. He did not earn righteousness He was by blood sanctified from birth.
polopowers1 4 months ago
I have stopped reading Christian books and listening to pastors for almost two years. I decided it was time for me to know God`s word personally and stop having it feed to me. I downloaded the Bible into my IPOD and listen to it on my way to work. My Pastor teaches like John MacArthur, he does not compromise the word.. I came from a church that everything you did right or wrong God still loved you because of his grace.
santacruz474 5 months ago
Biblical Literacy. Isn't that an Oxymoron?
Darwinsman 5 months ago
@Darwinsman no
isaac407 5 months ago
@isaac407 We shall have to agree to differ.
Darwinsman 5 months ago
@Darwinsman fair enough. Now go critique some more Christian videos and set us straight, we'll see the light some day my friend. Thanks for your concern.
isaac407 5 months ago
@isaac407 Is that irony or sarcasm. I never can tell the difference, but to dismiss me so peremptorily shows a level of arrogance I have come to expect from the Christians on You-tube.
It amazes me how Christians, in fact all religious people, come on You-tube and make videos and comments containing outrageous claims regarding their beliefs and their monopoly on morality, without a single shred of evidence to back them up and then get upset when they are challenged to produce verifiable proof.
Darwinsman 5 months ago
@Darwinsman I'm sorry, I was just joking. you said we have to agree to differ...so we do, that's all. I do appreciate that you are the very first atheist that doesn't call me every single filthy thing that come to their minds. Now you have to admit that the "Biblical Literacy" comment basically calls the Bible iliterate, thus us the same. Sorry again man didn't mean to be rude. if you want to discuss, fire away
isaac407 5 months ago
@isaac407 1/3. I never use foul language. I believe that once you descend to that level, you have already lost the argument. I despair of the atheists who do that.
I must admit though, I've had some pretty foul things said by Christians.
One even told me that, because I would not:
"Embrace Jesus Christ as my Saviour, I was going to burn in the pit of fire for all eternity and the only thing he regretted was that he would not be there to watch me suffer, because he would be in heaven." Contd.
Darwinsman 5 months ago
@Darwinsman Many so called "Christians" are simply following teachings but not transformed, therefore not Christians. Many of us are simply human and sometimes we do/say the wrong thing. The great majority, like me have certain attitudes that we still struggle with as we change. There are some that while I still love, i can't stand more than a few minutes if that.
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 2/3. My response to him was that:
“if heaven meant spending eternity with people like him, then heaven would be the real Hell,” but that’s about as strong as I get, unless seriously provoked.
As for the literacy of the bible. My issue is that some christians treat the bible as if it was literally true, when all the latest archaeological and historical research demonstrates that, even on a purely historical basis, the bible is, at the very least, seriously flawed. Cont’d.
Darwinsman 5 months ago
@Darwinsman about heaven: the guy is, according to the Bible, accurate, but a real Christian does not boast in the suffering of others. My heart aches for people that never believe. many believe that it is their job to convert people and when it doesn't happen they say stupid things like that out of frustration or simply from a heart that has not been transformed at all. You post som good comments, I'll address the rest later today, all came in at once. good day.
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 3/3 There is now an abundance of verified independent evidence that most of the cornerstone bible stories, like Genesis, Noah’s Flood, The Exodus, etc. are mainly myths and legends, which appear only in the bible and writings derived from the bible.
As it is not considered valid in any school of research I know, to use any sole source to prove itself, then surely, at the very least, the veracity of the bible must at least come into question.
Darwinsman 5 months ago
@Darwinsman (1)I can find an abundance of evidence that points to the contrary.You don't know if the flood happened or not. These so called experts don't know either. BTW the veracity of the Bible has come into question and still remains a bestseller, still people claim(me included) it has changed their lives, we loose friends, some loose their lifes, yet Jesus is still more famous than The Beatles. Why is that? In part because we have experienced something that is not written in a science book.
isaac407 4 months ago
@Darwinsman (2)...because you don't know me it's not real to you. did all these other stories happen? I believe they did, but that's not what amazes me. what amazes me are the transformed lifes (mine included, if you only knew), it amazes me that a heart as hard and tormented as mine can find peace and be compassionate. It may not mean much to you, but to me and my wife and to my kids it does. they knew me as the biggest jerk, but not anymore. you like Darwin,I love Christ, and I don't care....
isaac407 4 months ago
@Darwinsman (3) if the schools don't consider it valid. I believe in the God of the bible, yes, the invisible friend in the sky as atheists refer to Him. I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for without it I would be a total wreck. That's my evidence, friend, my own life. it was given back to me and I asure you I did not deserve it. I do wish that you could see what I see, but it is not my job to convince you, just to proclaim Christ as Lord of lords...Good night
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 1/7. It may surprise you, but I'm pleased that you get comfort from your faith. But that's what it is, blind faith.
Saying that you didn’t deserve your life saddens me. Everyone deserves a good life. If you've changed yours, I admire you, but personally, I think that by putting all the credit for your change to Jesus is doing a great disservice to yourself and your own strength of character. You should be proud of what you have achieved. Cont’d.
Darwinsman 4 months ago
@Darwinsman Not being a Christian does not disqualify you from being compasionate, or even having a "good life". If I rob a store(never done that lol),do I deserve to be free?don't think so, yet,I could get probation, or another chance, or rehab vs jail, or like some time ago join the army or go to jail etc.That is called grace. that's what I mean by undeserving. Don't be sad,I'm grateful. I have been proud of what I've "achieved", misteriously the jerk is reborn LOL,no thanks :)
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 2/7 The fact that the bible is a best seller doesn't make it any more true than Jesus being more popular than The Beatles, which, to be honest, is a rather fatuous analogy.
The bible may be popular, but the facts speak for themselves. After over 150 yrs of exploration in Egypt, no evidence has been found of the Exodus, or even that the Israelites were ever in Egypt. This includes intensive research by Israeli Archaeologists who were sent into the Sinai after the 6 Day War. Cont’d.
Darwinsman 4 months ago
@Darwinsman I didn't come up with that analogy...the Beatles did :). Studies: the problem is you and I are going to "believe" what we are predisposed to believe, unless something hits you personally. in this day and age ALL studies,reports and evidence are suspicious. global warming data has been manipulated, earth age doubles and triples every few years, missing links found are proven hoaxes every couple of years. So who do I believe? i'm not "discovering" anything, other people are....cont'd
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 3/7. They were given the specific task of finding evidence of the Exodus, to justify Israel’s claim to “The Promised Land”. To date, they’ve found no such evidence.
However, archaeologists have found that the Israelites were always a small Canaanite tribe and never actually left Canaan.
As for Noah’s Flood, throughout history, there have been and always will be, legends of floods, but there has never been any evidence found which proves a World Wide flood. Cont’d.
Darwinsman 4 months ago
@Darwinsman ...so we can go back and forward about who is credible and what evidence is valid. A few years ago there was an exploration that suggested they could have found the path the Jews used to go across the parted sea, but like just about every single report and investigation, the findings were TADAAAA...inconclusive!
Not too long ago another archaeological team believed they found Noah's ark, but because of political and climate obstacles they couldn't prove it. So I am not going to...
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 4/7. In fact, Archaeology has found many places, even in the low lying areas of the middle east itself which shows conclusively an unbroken culture going back over 10,000 yrs, with not even a suggestion of a flood. I would be interested in the contrary evidence you say you have.
Unlike Christians, I am always prepared to be proved wrong and have been many times in my life, that is the way that true knowledge grows, but, like Thomas, I need evidence. Cont’d.
Darwinsman 4 months ago
@Darwinsman ....give you all these 'findings" because you'll just, understandably so, give me the counter for them. Even the Holocaust needs to be 'proven" over and over, and that happened(or not) not that long ago in comparison. I compare myself to Thomas too (see, we have something in common), I too need evidence. Part of my evidence is a changed heart, yet you say "no, that's not what happened"!!! you don't believe because you can't stick your finger in the scars my past life left....cont'd
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 5/7. Faith does not give you answers. It only stops you asking the questions.
Even in the New Testament, there are great discrepancies.
The bible itself proves that even the Nativity could never have happened the way it is portrayed in the gospels.
As for Jesus the man. I’m quite prepared to accept that there was possibly a preacher around at that time with that name. It was a common Name. There were at least 3 high priests called Jesus. It is a derivation of Joseph. Cont’d.
Darwinsman 4 months ago
@Darwinsman...sorry I didn't numbered my posts before, do'h!
Faith does not give me answers(agree again), it comes from answers. John the baptizer sends a follower to ask Jesus if he was the one. Jesus didn't say "tell him to read all the prophecies again". He said tell him of all the things you are witnessing. That's what i'm doing. telling you what I have witnessed for I cant attest for all studies and "conclusions" or what this christian said or did, or what this atheist said or did....
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 6/7. However, All the stories supposedly about Jesus, his parables and the miracles that he is supposed to have done, can be traced back almost word for word to earlier religions and writings.
There were over 40 writers and scholars who were active during Jesus’ lifetime, but not one of them even mentions him in passing. In fact there is no mention of Jesus, anywhere other than in the New Testament and writings derived from the gospels. Cont’d.
Darwinsman 4 months ago
@Darwinsman Now keep this in mind: According to scripture, Jesus was crucified for blasphemy. wouldn't you think that writers of that time were reluctant to report about Jesus for fear of suffering similar punishment? plus crucifixion was common practice, Jesus was not the only one, but there are some historical accounts that do make mention of him, even if in passing. I may have to check on the parables being trace to someone else, i've heard that before but never checked on it
isaac407 4 months ago
@isaac407 7/7. Further more, all the stories in the gospels were written 2nd and 3rd hand, by people who never ever met him.
There is also nothing in any official Roman record of his trial or crucifixion. In fact he is not mentioned at all in any contemporary official source.
Again, I would be grateful if you have any evidence that contradicts this.
Darwinsman 4 months ago
@Darwinsman Matthew and John were His disciples, Mark and Luke were with Paul. Luke was a doctor that investigated and interviewed witnesses. Paul is qualified by Peter, another original follower, and writer of some of the letters(not always happy with Paul according to Scripture). the Acts is written by Luke as well. All except John died because they refused to renounce Christianity. I don't think many historians wanted to record all that because all the possible repercussions. Still happens!
isaac407 4 months ago
@Darwinsman I believe the Bible literally, understanding that the original manuscripts are infallible, not the gazillion translations. That's where MacArthur fits in. He takes what we have and through study, understanding,years of dissecting what the Bible we have says, comparing what all the versions say, tries to give us what the originals meant to give us. he is not perfect, but he has proven to be faithful to the word of God so I trust him, but The Bible is my authority, not him .
isaac407 4 months ago 7
@isaac407
"I believe the Bible literally""he Bible is my authority"
even when it says:
Exodus 21: 20 If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. 21 But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
?
castelgandalf 3 months ago
@castelgandalf Hi there. I just wanted to point out that this is an example of causiatic law, meaning that it takes the greater principles of God's moral law and applies them to culture in case such a situation ever arose. However, giving a provision of this type does not condone slavery. Like divorce, God did not intend for humans to ideally live in this way. It should also be noted that slavery in Hebrew culture was much different than our idea of Antebellum slavery.
haaakkkk2010 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 hello, thank you for answers, but god had no problem expressing his moral law directly when it came to "thou shall not kill" why not "thou shall not keep slaves"?
slavery much different? helot, serf, indentured servant, or slave, you own him, may beat him and he is compelled to work for you, these provision (exodus, deuteronomy, ephesians & more) do condone slavery. webster's def: to regard or treat as acceptable, forgivable or harmless. "shall not be punished".
castelgandalf 2 months ago
@castelgandalf Your most welcome! Always a pleasure to debate topics. Slavery is, by definition, much different than murder (which is the commandment "thou shalt not kill" is referring to). Also, there were harsh punishments for masters who mistreated their slaves. This is because slavery in Jewish culture was often used as way to pay off debts. If a family was in debt, they would basically put themselves in service to their masters to pay off the debt. (1/2)
haaakkkk2010 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 (2/2) After 7 years during Jubilee, the slaves would have the opportunity to be freed from the service of their masters. Indeed, it was not uncommon for slaves to opt out of freedom because sometimes living in the service of more wealthy masters was better living than struggling on their own. But from what it sounds like, the idea of being in the service of another is really what you have an issue with. The Bible also speaks to this. We are either slaves to sin or to (2/3)
haaakkkk2010 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 ...or to righteousness. While the apostle Paul discouraged slavery in the physical, human sense, he understood that spiritually were in service to either evil or good. Jesus said that we either serve the Father in heaven, or we serve the father of lies (that is Satan). No matter what slavery, or servitude, or any role of submission is inevitable. These relationships are in and of themselves not bad, so long as we are serving the Holy God in doing so.
haaakkkk2010 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 1-could you expand on the difference between murder and slavery?
2-if a master put out the eye or tooth of a slave, the punishment would be to let the slave go free, hardly harsh at all. in case he beat the slave with a club and the slave died within 2 days "he must be punished" but the punishment is not specified. if the slave survived 2 days, no punishment. do you have any specific reference i could read? i admit i haven't brushed up on my scripture lately.
castelgandalf 2 months ago
@castelgandalf Certainly. As for 2, you could take a look at all of Exodus 21, particularly verses 1-6,12, 20, 26-27. You could also read ideas of "slavery" in the New Testement John 8:31-38, Colossians 3:22-25, and several others.
As for 1, I would say the two are very different. Slavery is a role a person fulfills in society, and an institution of such in a broader context. Murder is this willful taking of another's life. Slavery does not entail murder, nor does murder entail slavery. (1/2)
haaakkkk2010 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 (2/2) A slave owner can go without murdering his slaves. Murder can occur in any relationship. Also as you just pointed out, their were punishments for owners who intentionally or unintentionally murdered their slave. Many renowned theologians and scholars of the Bible assert that the provisions of these laws concerning slavery were intended to restrain oppression and exploitation in light of man's hardness of heart and unwillingness to change their cultural practices. (2/3)
haaakkkk2010 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 (Final part) Really, when viewed in this context, the provisions are an act of mercy on behalf of God. Helping us navigate such a upside-down and unideal relationship, that humanity refused to abolish because of their unwillingness to submit themselves to God, is really quite remarkable on His part considering he didn't have to save us at all. However, whether slavery exists or not, we will always be under authority as to God, so we'll always be required to submit to some authority
haaakkkk2010 2 months ago
@haaakkkk2010 hi again. i had not received the notifications of the additional parts of your answers. i just saw the entire thread. thank you for your thorough answers, i will certainly read them carefully. peace.
castelgandalf 2 months ago
@castelgandalf I believe that what is narrated in the Bible happenned(literally). The Bible is my authority in the matters of conduct and Christian living. I don't have any slaves, therefore this doesn't apply to me. In biblical times it was more of a social status, and contracts between parties. they sold themselves as a way of paying debts and providing for their families. This particular law was part of a broader guide on how slaves were to be treated. Context is the key, guy:)
isaac407 2 months ago
@isaac407 (and anybody else who has participated in this thread) i think i understand where most of you are coming from, and from what i read here i can see you all try to be well behaved, moral people.
there is still slavery in the world (haiti, etc.) would you have an opinion if people owning slaves today argued that as long as they abide by the regulations in the bible, they were justified in keeping their slaves?
castelgandalf 2 months ago
@castelgandalf fair question, They would be wrong. example: I owe you a $1000.00, I don't have any money, so I agree to work for you in whatever capacity for 7 years, you provide food, a place to stay and a decent way of living. With time I become like part of your family, a confidant, someone you trust. at the 7 year mark we have another contract:i stay with you forever, because it is convenient for both. That was most of the slavery back then. 17th century slavery? sinful!
isaac407 2 months ago
@isaac407 thanx for your answer, and it is a good example.
i think many of us (atheists, secular humanists, what have you) protest a lot because 17th century slavery (18th &19th too) was in some cases justified by someone misguidedly pointing to the bible. also, many slaves in biblical times were prisoners of war.
then again others protest because they're trying to force the issue or pick a fight. i think this is one of the most rational and thoughtful conversations i've read online.
castelgandalf 2 months ago
@castelgandalf it was my pleasure. there is a lot more than what I said here.
I used to be an atheist, One day I put my trust in Christ. I didn't try to be better nor moral nor good. My desires changed, my priorities changed. we may be pushy at times, because we want you to know what we know. We really do want to bring you in, it is our commission. we do it wrong sometimes because we want to convert you and that is not our job. Our job is to spread the Gospel, not to force it.
isaac407 2 months ago
@isaac407 don't
MorganDendler 2 weeks ago
@isaac407 ::: God's weakness : He did not preserve for us these 'infallible' manuscripts.
So we are left to guess just what they said.
k0smon 1 day ago
@k0smon For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.1 Corinthians 1:25 :)
isaac407 23 hours ago
@isaac407 ::: Are you calling God weak and foolish?
k0smon 23 hours ago
@k0smon no I'm just quoting a verse(since YOU called on His weakness). In context Paul is using a literary style (can't remember what is called) saying even if God was foolish and weak, He would still be stronger and wiser than us....
isaac407 22 hours ago
These are true and wise words. Everyone that's taking offense at these words and arguing back is taking sides with the Joel osteen heretics of this age. God bless you MacArthur.
subruwrxsti1 5 months ago
John MacArthur is the living embodiment of John 7 : 15-22. The words of Christ regarding individuals such as MacArthur are obviously true.
rickw1100 5 months ago
repent, and take the LORD JESUS in your heart as saviour, believing GOD raised him from the dead, ROMANS CHAPTER 10 VERSE 9, let the bible speak itself, u dont need no one to tell u how to get to heaven, the bible tells u clearly. We are all sinners deserving hell, but thanksbe to GOD for sending JESUS and raising him from the dead, IT IS ALL FAITH, then the good works will start filling your life.
chestnut369 5 months ago
The biggest threat to Christianity is people getting an education.
ilikezappa 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rickw1100 Are you on drugs? Listen to John MacArthur and compare what he says with the Bible. He is anything but what you have accused him of. Seriously, I don't know what you are smoking.
alienrighteousness 6 months ago
Comment removed
davetista 6 months ago
The biggest threat to Christianity are charlatans like John MacArthur who bastardize the Gospel for want of greed and power. MacArthur is the embodiment of Matt. 7:15.
rickw1100 7 months ago
The biggest threat to Christianity : critical thought
Pinage 7 months ago
Amen. This gneration is the most Biblically illiterate. We must train them in the Word of God.
Brucev7 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Brucev7 "Amen. This gneration is the most Biblically illiterate. We must train them in the Word of God. "
It's their choice to be Biblically illiterate, no one is stopping them from getting a better education, do you want to bring back compulsory indoctrination of Christianity or maybe Islam?
saintpine 5 months ago
Yeah, theres been a study on how america has dropped compared to other countries around the world in education, so no we are not that booksmart anymore thanks to our goverment.. So please dont say christians are the only uneducated people , that is just a hate induced lie. Shame on you!
Belovedtita25 9 months ago
@Belovedtita25 The studies on education are based on bad math. As a former teacher, let me share some real info with you: The U.S. is one of the few countries that allows everyone the chance to receive a free public education through high school. Many other countries do that through 5th or 6th grade then you have to be near the top of your class to go on. If you're not, you don't get to go on. So all of our students in the U.S. are compared to the top students in other countries. Apples/oranges.
metanoeo1 8 months ago
Awsome John, awsome. All should check out Voddie Bacham's teaching on Titus 1 (or 2?) regarding Biblical mediocrity.
uswestons 10 months ago
amen John Macarthur. Unfortuantely the same thing has been going on for the 400 hundred years. This is the same exact fight tht Spurgeon faught in the downgrade controversy 200 years ago
Steelers2417 10 months ago
i really hate the fact that the biggest threat to christianity is the liberal christian perspective. our own brothers are killing us
GoldenbanjoDJ 11 months ago
Go to gty/org. That's MacArthurs's website. Grace To You = gty/org. He's got hundreds of teachings at this site. Check it out.
Pumarisi124 11 months ago
The biggest threat to Christianity in America is when people get an education. Religion tends to thrive when people are dumb. Noah`s Ark? Yup seems real plausible......
ilikezappa 1 year ago
The proof is in the pudding. Weak watered down preaching over the years has produced people like Joel Osteen, all of the Word of Faith preachers, Ed Young Jr., Bill Hybels, Rick Warren, the Emergent Church movement etc..etc...
joseph82069 1 year ago
Amen.... a million times Amen!!
joseph82069 1 year ago
I only heard a small bit of this persons sermon...seems to me he has a good point.
johndwoodward1 1 year ago
Anyone know where I can find the entire message of this? Can't find it on the Ligonier site :(
KevinTheMiracle 1 year ago
@KevinTheMiracle It was from a Q and A session during one of the Ligonier National Conferences. Sorry I don't know which one, but all their national conferences are available for purchase from their website.
99BAKI99 1 year ago
John MacArthur knows the bible well and he shares the word of God with others in a very easy to understand message. He also has the boldness to speak the truth of God's word when and where it needs to be spoken. My wife and I have both made personal decisions to receive Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior and to closely follow Jesus and His teachings as found in the bible. John MacArthur is helpful to us in our walk with the Lord, as we are sure he is helpful for many others.
davidmelton333 1 year ago
John MacArthur and Sproul are unsaved, going to Hell, but they don't understand why. The reject the God of sufficient grace to all to give us the choice.
Parture 1 year ago
your american theology is 3,000 miles wde and 1/2 inch deep
Pacslyf 1 year ago
@Pacslyf You got that from a Paul Washer sermon.
CMTFan4 1 year ago
Comment removed
CMTFan4 1 year ago
@howtowastemylife that is soooo true you take time with them and explain the scriptures and they just blow you off and you sit their and look at all the time you wasted
SONSofVENDETTA 1 year ago
The church is losing power daily. People would rather shout and run around foam at the mouth then live a righteous life. People wanna hear ooooo Jesus loves you they way you are, you don't have to change your fine the way you are. Few are standing for Godliness and Holiness. The church needs a swift kick in the butt and wake up.
SONSofVENDETTA 1 year ago
Becoming a Christian is in itself a dumbing down.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey You are wrong! There are many people who studied to prove Christianity a farce, only to prove to themselves the reality of it! If you are intellectually honest, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel, or "Evidence that demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell.
ultrapilot12 1 year ago
@ultrapilot12 I've seen the documentary The Case for Christ. Strobel has nothing. Haven't seen anything by McDowell, but I've heard of him. I sincerely doubt he has anything either. What do you think is the strongest piece of evidence by either?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey you are mistaken.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony How so?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey becoming Christian does not dumb you down. I used to think the same way! I found out, and I was very pleasantly suprised that it is the opposite! Of course, it's hard to explain, but, there it is.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony Perhaps I should clarify. I am not saying Christians are complete idiots, but, they are believing something that there is simply no evidence for and something that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I was a Christian myself way back when after I had read the Bible in its entirety, so, it can happen to anybody. Please, try to explain. You can PM me if need be.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey I was raised Christian. Doesn't mean I had a conversion. Doesn't mean I understood. Doesn't mean I actually had a personal relationship with the supernatural God. I spent 30 years as an adult being agnostic at best. Absolutley no sense whatsoever? Is that your personal opinion? Of course it is. Try reading a law book. Sure, you can read every word maybe, but to interperet and understand it usually takes 8 years in law school. or you pay someone!
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony Yes, it makes no sense that an omniscient being would set up a system whereby its necessary to shed blood for the forgiveness of sin. It makes no sense to let people spend approx. 4000 years spilling the blood of animals when the only blood that will do is that of "His" son's. And then when "His" son finally does the final sacrifice, said Son then leaves for another approx. 2000 years and counting. BTW, I have read the NT three times cover to cover and the gospels about 7 times each.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey it makes no sense to YOU. But, are YOU an authority? Are any of us an authority? I don't believe so. Much doesnt make sense to me sometimes, but I will ask someone who has really studied, and I continue to learn. If we completety understood God, would we need HIm? Would He need us?
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony Correct, it makes no sense to ME. Should I believe something that doesn't make sense to me? Moreover, how could I believe something that doesn't make sense to me? This isn't rocket science. I have studied, but that really is irrelevant. The concept is simple and it doesn't make sense to me. It's rather embarrassing that it took so long for me to see it. Nevertheless, who do you recommend I ask? And how can I understand something that cannot be observed?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey perfect question!!! we cannot! That is because God is supernatual. Something happens when you fully suurender to God. Of course it sounds insane. I never could have been convinced myself before. Can you admit that the supernatural may exist as reality?
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony Let's try it this way: How can I surrender to a God that makes no sense? Sure, I'll admit the supernatural may exist. Can you admit that there may be an invisible elephant in my car port?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey no, but if I saw millions and millions of people over a 2000 year period worshipping it, praying to it, raising money and building hospitals and schools, feeding and clothing the poor across the globe, etc etc, I'd probably be very tempted to take a closer look.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony But, no matter how close you get, it will still be invisible. And there would be many different sects giving different stories about what the elephant looks like. How would you know which is correct? Especially when they each say that theirs is the correct version and if you don't pick the right version, you're screwed.
Saddam Hussein did good things too. Should we overlook the shitty things he did because he did some good?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey we are not the judge. As far as who's got the "correct" version?
Everybody can't be right. Somebody's got to be wrong.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony Who is the judge?
Those that say there is no elephant would be right, because for all intents and purposes, there is no elephant.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey and you base that judgement on human science, and human common sense of course.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony No, I am basing that judgment on alien science and alien common sense...of course.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey thought we were having a constructive conversation.......
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony What am I supposed to say? We are humans. What other type of science and common sense are we to use? What are you using?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey I'm referring again to the supernaturalness of God.
If people believe in ghosts, ufos, etc, what's so crazy about the idea of a supernatural God? For a few decades, I was agnostic at best. I understand how difficult it is to come to terms with this idea. I guess what I'm saying here is don't close any doors.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony I don't think there is anything "crazy" about believing in God per se. I do think it's crazy to believe in the God of the Bible. I'm closing any doors. The ball is in God's hands.
Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure".
What a jerk.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey you are clearly missing the point of this scripture. If you are closing any doors, then perhaps our conversation is finished?
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony If I am missing the point, it's only because it's God's good pleasure. Nevertheless, would you care to try and enlighten me?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey you are clearly missing the point of this scripture. If you are closing any doors, then perhaps our conversation is finished? I like your statement the ball is in Gods hands.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony I screwed up the idiom. It should be the ball is in God's court. Why do you like it?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey "it's Gods good pleasure". Do you take everything literally? That would be a confusing life if we took everything literally. I cannot enlighten you, only you can enlighten you.
helpmetony 1 year ago
@helpmetony Do you take everything figuratively? That would be a confusing life if we took everything figuratively. If "it's Gods good pleasure" is meant to be taken figuratively, what does it mean?
Acts 8:30-31 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked. "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
Is that literal or figurative?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey The bible is written Spiritually you need the Spirit of Truth to teach you in it. 1 Cor. 2:13-14 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
@Belongs2Christ How convenient. The Bible says the Bible cannot be understood except with a "special gift". No matter how you slice this one, the natural man is held blameless, for the he cannot know these "spiritual things".
Furthermore, the last passage states outright that the "Spirit" makes sense out of nonsense. Which is not surprising since these are the words of Paul, the author of the longest con in history.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey It's called faith, faith to call upon Jesus and ask Him to forgive you and show you the way.
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
@Belongs2Christ What's called faith? The passages you quoted say nothing about faith.
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey to receive spiritual understanding you need Faith in Christ, then He will teach you things spiritual.
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
@Belongs2Christ How can I have Faith in foolishness?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey What is your faith in?
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Belongs2Christ You answered my question with a question, nevertheless, I do not believe in anything that is not based on proof. Again, How can I have Faith in foolishness?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey You didn't answer what you have Faith in.
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
@Belongs2Christ Yes, I did. At least I thought I did. What exactly do you mean?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
@AnnRKey How do you think man was created? How did the heavens and earth come to be?
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
@Belongs2Christ Is that what you meant by "What is your faith in?"?
Humans are the result of evolution. I do not know how the universe came into existence and neither do you if it's a matter of faith.
Now, are you going to answer my question?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
Comment removed
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
Comment removed
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AnnRKey "How can I have Faith in foolishness?" Your faith is in evolution, is that not a theory of man? Also it cannot be proven, yet it's not foolishness to you? So Christian Faith is foolish, but yours is not?
"I do not know how the universe came into existence and neither do you if it's a matter of faith." You say you don't know how the universe was created, but yet you know that God didn't create it? If you don't know how it was created, how do you know how it wasn't created?
Belongs2Christ 1 year ago
@Belongs2Christ For the answer to that see the Yt video The Theology of Creation by John McArthur
awaitthegroom 1 year ago
@Belongs2Christ Well?
AnnRKey 1 year ago
The biggest threat to Christianity in the USA is an educated population. We can only dream.................
ilikezappa 1 year ago
You have Christians thinking they are Christians that don't have enough knowledge to be saved Huh?So how much knowledge does one need to be saved?So part of being saved is based on how much knowledge you can absorb?What I think he is saying is not enough pure preaching is being preached for man to be saved.But what if I said to someone, "Jesus wept",could they be converted?Absolutely! because Spirit and Word produce fruit of salvation.Do I think a better gospel should be preached yes.God saves
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 knowledge is very important-having the right knowledge is a matter of life and death. As the Lord revealed in so many places. The truth that sets us free is the knowledge of Christ, it is even Christ. The Lord also showed us that: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Hosea 4:6
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
@HermitintheRain Be blessed
polopowers1 1 year ago
@polopowers1 The opening rebuke that the Lord gives through Isaiah is that Israel didn't know their God. It is knowledge that works salvation in man. Not a man-made reasoned knowledge that saves. But a God-revealed, Holy Spirit worked knowledge, by the sword of the Spirit which works salvation. It is, as Jesus spoke in John 15:3-it is the word (the knowledge thereof), spoken by him which makes one clean.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago
@polopowers1 At which point in the preaching of the true and pure word of the gospel that the Holy Spirit awakens the soul that was previously dead in sins is the province and peculiar work of God alone. But most assuredly, when the Spirit awakens that soul, the knowledge of who Christ is, who they are in relation to God, in a way that only the Holy Spirit can do as the Comforter, Counsellor, and revealer of God's purpose of grace in them will be accompanied by the knowledge of his word.
HermitintheRain 1 year ago