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@Sortsitar i said that it the relationship between a man and a woman which dictate superiority and respect,a woman as a mother is much superior to her son,who obviously is a man. man and woman in a society should have responsibilities according to their talents and they should have all the rights according to their responsibilities.
@Sortsitar I have also noticed life,and have found that men and women are different.i have never seen a boxing match between a man and a woman.never seen a man conceive.men are superior to women in some spheres and women are superior in other sphers.and have found that relationships dictate the superiority and respect.
@Sortsitar 4:It disgraces a man when he tries to be a she man and it disgraces a woman when she acts like a he woman. Man and woman who try to do the same infact make a mockery of the division made by Almighty, and are cursed by Him.
@Sortsitar 3:The duties assigned, to man and woman, by nature have their own importance individually. One cannot argue that to take care of a household is not important compared to running an office, or to raise children is degrading compared to trade or learning war techniques. All the roles played by men and women for the survival of collective and social system are equally important.
@Sortsitar 2:The very existence of human race depends on the fact that each one of them should proceed with what God has made them capable of.Surprisingly, people do not understand that a man can reveal his bravery in the battlefield, but is not fit to become a houseman and take care of household chores. Similarly a woman can be a perfect housewife but is not fit to become an army general and wage war.
@Sortsitar 1: a man and a woman should, according to their natural inclinations and aptitudes, move in their respective orbits like sun and the moon in order to carry out the divine will.In a society both man and woman should have responsibilities according to their talents and they should have all the rights according to their responsibilities.We know that a woman can conceive but a man cannot. It is neither shameful for a woman to conceive nor for a man not to do so.
@Sortsitar Islam does not forbid women to earn a living. It has only freed them from the responsibility of earning, which rests with men..An instition cannot have two heads.
@Sortsitar Islam does not forbid women to earn a living. It has only freed them from the responsibility of earning, which rests with men..An instition cannot have two heads.
@Sortsitar A mother can beat even a grown-up son,but a son cannot, simply because they are not equal.Believe me if you are going to place a father and a mother on equal footing with their children that will be disastrous,the respect toward a father,towards a mother will be thrown into the dustbin.such a family set-up will become a herd of animals.
@Sortsitar do you believe a mother and a child should be equal,if a mother can beat her rebellious son,why cannot a son beat his mother?don't you believe in equality? and why do think that a wife is oppressed if her husband is given the administrative authority.the family is like an instituion and like any other instituion it also needs a head.The best husband is the one who is best to his wife.
@Sortsitar in my opinion the quran wants us to look at relationships between men and women rather than gender.for instance,man as a husband is the head ot the family because of certain physical and psychological advantages,but this very man is subservient to his mother and obviously she is a woman.so what we undertand from the quran is that men and women as human beings are equal but when they enter into a relationship their roles change.
i wish men in religion period are like this. he is not talking about women taking over men, he is saying not to take scripture literally which can go with any religion. i know Christan men who take it literally and they really do want their women at home in the kitchen.
Second of all Im not the one who started judging you and the way you dress. You are here judging the west all over the place, telling us that western women are insecure the jugdement is on your side. Fine dress like you please, we dont care. But dont call western women, sluts, insecure, etc etc just because we dont conform to your standards.
Im sorry darling there we clearly desagree, men dont dress women in our society, they dress themselves. Sure there is Marketing of all sorts making suggestions to women and how they should dress. But nowhere will you see them being detained by the police because they are showing a lock of hair(like in IRAN) or Saudi Arabia. Please dont compare the incomparable. Where in the West women are detained by men for showing their arms for example?
as things are now feminism in islam shares the same fate much like ice put in the glaring sun shine. you have to decide. do you opt for patriarchy or emancipation?
if emancipation of the human kind would really be one of islam`s main characteristics like the prohibition of alcohol or the 5 pillars of islam then even for the most uneducated and ignorant believer standing up in the name of women rights would be the most natural thing to do. in this regard islam has simply failed. making the rights of women (we are talking about half of the worlds population) the 6th pillar of islam and it could become something we can refer to in the 21st century.
He tries to make it sound like Islam is compatible with western culture, but he is in fact, trying to Islamicize Europe. I was fooled at first, he seems reasonable, but he has spoken to Muslims telling them to pretend they support western culture so that they can gain more power within it. He wants the whole world to be muslim.
@pseudonamed Islam is Compatible. and if you knew your History you would know that islam was THE FIRST ideology to give Women Written rights, before Islam women did not have these rights.
and the Contribution to Science, Culture and the Arts is vast.
Without Islam there would be NO Western Culture, it would be very different.
@funkyfaz55 I know that the middle east has contributed much to science, the arts, etc. but I do not believe it is because of their religion any more than western science is "because" of Christianity. All cultures contribute to the world, and it would be sad if only one had dominance everywhere.
@pseudonamed no you are wrong. Before Islam The Arabs were nobodies, Alexander the Great ignored them. Within 50 Years of Islam The Arabs, and future Muslims would become the GREATEST, yes it's true, of all civilizationas.
Christianity cannot claim this. It's a Fact the Muslims Laid the Foundations for the Ranaissance centuries before The Europeans created it. So it was Muslims who started this. It's WELL documented. Do You require the Evidence?
@pseudonamed Well that would make sense because he is Muslim. Islam is a means of freedom for peolple; bringing it's laws into the West would only make the West less obsessed with captialism and reducing women to objects. These are just a few problems it would solve. So yeh, "Islamaicising" Europe really wouldn't be a bad thing.
@2006kcl I really don't see how women would be less objects in an Islamic state, considering they are treated as such in many Islamic countries - faceless objects which only have "freedom" if their father or husband feels like granting it. I also don't see how muclims are less capitalist, considering that so many leave Islamic states so that they can have a better, more wealthy life in Europe. Why would you leave a country that fits your morals for one that doesn't, other than for money?
@pseudonamed the is a difference between Islam and Islamic countries. Most countries in the world are corrupted by money and cultural barbaric traditions. If you read in your history books the impact islam had and still has then you would see that it is a peaceful religion. When I said Islam (i.e. Islamic principles) be brought to the west, I meant the principles only. Principles such as honouring women, spending your wealth in charity - this is Islam. Anything contradicting that isn't Islam.
@pseudonamed also, im a muslim and i cover and i'm greatly proud of it.. i have great friends who dont cover up mostly non-muslim friends and they are disrespected on the street and whenever they go out and they freely admit that. I'd rather not be treated like that thanks. one of my friends was sexually assaulted in a club some time ago and she now vows to never go back. dont feel any less free than you. dont stereotype people just to make yourself feel better.
@2006kcl Well I think every woman should have the right to dress however makes her feel the most comfortable. Whether she decides to cover or not is up to her. I can totally understand wanting to dress modestly, I do so myself. But if a woman wants to dress up she should be able to as well. In the west women are free to cover up modestly, or not. I would not want to live somewhere that I MUST cover up, I want to have the choice.
@pseudonamed the thing you dont realise is that you're totally contradicting yourself. you know for a fact women and men can dress as they please, and you reply with "but in Islamic countries women dont have the choice"..
@pseudonamed ...and you make it out as though the West is so "free" and you can do as you please. but that's not true. You cant dress as you please in the West because e.g. you cant walk around naked if you like and now what's happening is the politicians here are trying to ban modesty. West is just as bad as the countries you think are so barbaric, you just dont see it yet. The west is all you know that's why you have a narrow point of view about things. why dont you try talking to veiled women
@pseudonamed ...you might actually just realise that the veiled woman is probably happier than you, more confident than you, and doesnt feel this intense desire to display her beauty to be accepted. People who do that are just insecure with themselves.
@2006kcl Please stop the islamic chauvinism! such as displayed here: "Muslims would become the GREATEST". Maybe you show a lot of modesty in your way of dressing, but you surely dont show any modesty in how you express yourself. And if you think the West is just as bad as other barbaric countries. Why do you choose to live in the West? Your profile says you are from Canada. I myself are happy that i can choose to wear whatever i want and I dont have to wear a tent to be modest.
@carosinsoles i can live where I choose. No country defines me, inc the west or an islamic country. my religion of peace defines me. Calling the hijab a tent really shows how wonderfully open-minded you are. Muslims who cover understand why u choose not to, so dont use our modesty as another reason for your own internal insecurities. we are happy being modest the way we believe God has told us to be modest. who's your God? the fashion magazines and men who demand to see your flesh.
@carosinsoles and please dont misquote me.. where did i write that quote, and if anything, quote the entire message i wrote jus so myself and other can see what ur referring to exactly. chauvinism btw is in all those magazines you read that gives you your personality. that and alcohol. God forbid you could actually have a personality without alcohol. tc.
@carosinsoles you are jus upset with my messages because you have no personality. look at muslim women who are covered, they are in schools teaching, they are doctors, lawyers. the "tent" is not a barrier, it forces people to respect the personality and skills that person possesses. your insecurities are that you think no one will acceot you unless you put on your makeup, wear uncomfortable tight clothing and act the part society want from u. you'd realise that if u were honest with yourself.
@2006kcl Well you think a god told you to cover! Who is my god? Well my god will never be a god that tells men can punish their women with a stick !Or that the earth was layed out like a carpet. Or that its ok to marry six year olds. Its so typical that u call me racist or fascist. The only ones who are fascist are you, you call other people kuffar openly and you think you are gods chosen people. You oppenly admit to everyone that you are betterand purer:and you dare call me a fascist??
@carosinsoles there we go. what you really think. listen lady, i never called you anything. if you were open minded and had no negative views (which you clearly do about muslims) then u wouldnt have posted anything inthe first place. and yes u are insecure, that's why you're still rambling on about how free you are. i dont care. just dont put labels on muslim women to make yourself feel better.
@carosinsoles also, we dont think we are God's chosen people.. that's the Jews. so dont get all your rascist views mixed up hun, before someone catches you and realises you know nothing about the world.
@carosinsoles in addition if you have a problem with the muslim woman's dress, you clearly have a problem with nuns and the like. and if you're about to turn around and say, "i have no problems with nun", then that makes YOU the hypocrite my dear, because nuns and the muslim woman's attire look the same. i resemble more of mother mary than you do sweetheart. you dont have a problem with Christianity, because it's associated with white people. but Islam, it's associated with brown. ur racist.
@2006kcl You call everyone a racist who does not agree with your believes give me a break. And about being fascist just for telling you not to live somewhere you dont like, thast not fascism thats common sense. I myself I am a european Inmigrant in latin america and I would never talk about the culture and the continent that received me and welcomed me the way you talk about the west.I have respect for the culture that welcomed me not like you.
@2006kcl For your information I have cousins and nieces of all colours and I am not a racist. My family is totally mixed. So you can take your racist comments and throw them at someone else. Maybe you are ignorant and associate Christianity with white people. But I know perfecly well Christianity is practice in souther hemisphere of Africa and Latin America and started in the middle east with people of darker skin so No dear I your assumptions are not at all true.
@carosinsoles and i hint your racism seeping from your message. I can live where I like, that's not upto you. and the fact that i can live where I like just emphasizes how much of a universal religion Islam is. it can be practised anywhere. so take your fascism and insecurities somewhere else.
@2006kcl and about your ridiculous assumptions over a person you never talked to , seen or met. About me being insecure. Well they just make me laugh. And your bla bla bla about universal is also ridiculous. If you think the west is bad and not a good place to live, you would not live there periode. So stop being hypocritical.
@carosinsoles and all those things you said about islam are so untrue and so boring, you sould like you're regurgitating out of your fascist and chauvinistic magazines.. so yeh, you are fascist. a typical one too. i can live where i please. only a fascist would tell another person to leave a country they grew up in just because they didn't like them. so yeh, you're definetly a fascist. why dont you take a good look in the mirror.
@carosinsoles and regarding, quote: your ridiculous assumptions over a person you never talked to , seen or met. About me being insecure. well, the same ca go for you my dear. when did you sit down with a muslim woman and get to know her and her ideals and her perspective on life? never i am sure. so if you're looking to point your finger at a hyporcite, remember there's 3 always pointing back. let your hatred and insecuities go. you may feel better about yourself.
@2006kcl f you dont have anything constructive to say, then dont reply. i'm on here explaining why i and other muslim dress the way we do. and telling you for sure that we are not oppressed, which you just wont accept because you want to believe that opposite even if the truth was hitting you in the face. the only reason i can think that you'd do this is because you're insecure. you are scared the muslim women will encourage you to cover up the outside because u feel theres nothing on the inside
@2006kcl Well im not so shallow to say that how you look on the outside,whether you cover up or not defines whether someone is empty inside.With this argument you practically say western women who dont cover up are empty, maybe thats true in many cases.But at least with a western woman i am able to look in her eyes and see if something is wrong.With women in burkhas thats not even possible.THis garment dont allows me to see anything her smile, her eyes, her gestures it strips away her humanity.
@2006kcl I dont care how you dress, can dress as you want, as long as you dont come in to a culture and criticize our way of live. I dont care about nuns dressing like they do,if thats the life they choose its up to them. But you must remember nuns never have to cover their face. I can look at her none and recognize her on the streets, see if she is in a bad mood a good mood, she when she smiles etc etc. Please dont compare a nuns atire with a burkah because its not the same thing!
@2006kcl And I also know Islam is practiced and believed in in countries like kosovo, turkey, macedonia. Where the population is white, so I dont know where you get that from? That I would associate Islam with darker people? Races are races and religions are religions and they dont have anything to do with each other. But you conveniantly mix them so you can call anyone who criticizes your belives a racist. Its a tactic to distract from the main issue, its a red herring.
@2006kcl And your comment about you looking more like "Mary, mother of Jesus" than me really made me laugh. See how you are trying to to claim superiority by associating with someone like her, who is considered holy by many people in the west. Well I dont want to look like Mary, Mary lived over 2000 years ago in macho chauvinistic society. I like looking to the future not to the past my dear. And I dont have to look like her to feel superior or better than others. Im not that insecure.
@carosinsoles if you are happy within yourself, then fair enough. just dont shuv the way you dress on people who DONT want to dress like you. we're really not that intrested in your fashion tips. if you're soooo secure with yourself, why are you even on here debating with me. people who are secure within themselves believe others should be too, they dont try to make others conform and be like them. you would be supporting women wearing whatever they wish - and that's my belief....
@carosinsoles ...i believe women can wear whatever they want. i am only explaining why muslim women (i.e. me included) dress the way we do. we are happy with the way we dress, in fact we love it. we dont care what you wear. so get over yourself; you're just hear to spread poison, so just take it somewhere else love. if you believed in freedom, you'd support the notion that women can wear what they want including if they choose to dress like Mother Mary, not the way you do/want.
@carosinsoles ...people like you who want others to do what THEY want etc, well, you're just as bad as the chauvinists of Mary's time. you think you're so free from a chauvinnistic society... you're living in a bubble.. you're the one who's dressing to please men, so again, like i've said time & again, have a look at yourself and you'll realise all these chauvinistic things your "against" is really the reality of your life. you live in a chauvinistic society and you dont even realise it. lol.
@2006kcl Im sorry darling there we clearly desagree, men dont dress women in our society, they dress themselves. Sure there is Marketing of all sorts making suggestions to women and how they should dress. But nowhere will you see them being detained by the police because they are showing a lock of hair(like in IRAN) or Saudi Arabia. Please dont compare the incomparable. Where in the West women are detained by men for showing their arms for example?
@2006kcl true all societies are a bit chauvinistic, because men stil have the upper hand in most parts of the world. Im not living in a bubble. You are clearly. Because saying there are no social problems with women in muslim countries is like saying there is no racism in europe. Saying there is nothing chauvinist about men dressing how they please but women have to follow strict rules is very chauvinistic. You are the one living in a bubble.
@carosinsoles i'm glad we have established that not all countries are perfect, which i menitioned in previous posts, but yet again, you like to claim that you said these things first with your "free mind". anyway.. firstly, get ur facts straight, muslim men DO have a dress code, and it's a modest dress code.. they MUST cover themselves too, especially if women are around..but it's people like you who make a big deal about the woman's hijab that the man's dress code falls on deaf ears, like yours
@carosinsoles p/s if you love living your life, then why are you fighting others about the way they choose to live theirs on YouTube. im not here bashing your lifestlye, im here explaining why i choose to dress the way i do. if you're so very content, then live your life and stop carrying this anger in your heart and directing at me who is perfectly comfortable and secure in my skin.food for thought.salaam/peace.goodluck with all your endeavours. i'm finished here,what more could i possible say.
@2006kcl And if you want to talk about fascism? why dont we talk about the pact of ummar ? telling christians how big there houses can be? Yes you do believe to be the peoples choosen people as do the jews. And both are fascist believes. We are better than the rest , the rest are kuffar. And you pointing your finger at me for saying you shouldnt live in culture you hate and calling me fascist for that Oh please!!!
@pseudonamed why dont you ask yourself why you need to display all your beauty to the world. Ask yourself.. who are you doing it for? I bet you'll use the cliche "its for me". Getting attention from men does not help your confidence in any way. One should be confident in themselves without the need for compliments and attention. Just because you may have the need to do that to make yourself feel better PLEASE don't put your insecurities on veiled women who are really happy the way they are.
@pseudonamed also re your comment about western women having a choice to dress modestly or not... the choice that's there, yeh, that's great.. but it comes as a cost if you choose not to dress modestly, as there are some who are attracted to these "looser" women and take advantage of them in violent ways. Usually in the west, when a woman is sexually assaulted, people blame the woman for the way she must have dressed, so much for freedom hey.
@pseudonamed we don't need men to make us feel better about ourselves. that's true freedom if you really think about it and if youre really honest with yourself.
@2006kcl the 'bad' things you have attached to Islam are cultural problems, i.e they do not come from the religion. And being capatalistic is not the same as trying to earn a living to support your family. We don't send our elderly parents off to nursing homes or leave them to die alone, we look after our families. Is a huge emphasis on maintaining good family ties and looking after your loved ones in Islam.
I think same of you .... my comments are pretty clear wahabbis/salafis are breeding within us like virus destrotying our religion .... u will cry ya Allah when its too late
@Shamrockdalegend you're praying for someone to apostasize?! Q. you feel good about yourself? iman spot on? didn't prophet pray for people to turn to Islam? even those who violently opposed. as for Tariq - u dont have to agree with him. shame on u for wishing such a thing! are u perfect?! you'l be accountable for your careless comments on youtube and your inconsideration for those u unfortunately represent
you lecture me about bidah, but you yourself have got the nerve to call another muslim a hypocrite, when the Lord basically said in the quran do noy say to another muslim that they are not muslim.
A person who believes that muslims can integrate into european (secular) society and compromise their own religion is a hypocrit.
Correct, if you call another muslim a hyporcit or a kaffir without justification, then its equivalent to commiting apostacy, but it is 100% clear that this man is a hypocrit, anyone who compromises islam to anything else is a hypocrit,
He even had a debate with ayan hirsi ali, instead of ripping her head off, now thats hypocrasy.
Holy bible, 2nd Corinthians 3:17 reads, Now The Lord is a Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty (freedom). The hostility against freedom of expressions, and of art, and of religions in Islamic countries is an indication of the presence of another spirit who opposes the One True God who delights in Freedom of Choice. Joshua 24:15 Choose for yourself this day whom you will serve
Je suis déçu que cette conversation n'est pas sous-titrée pour comprendre ce que Mr Tariq Ramadan pourrait dire, j'aime bien l'écouter, voilà ce genre de problème qu'on rencontre, c'est dommage que cest adressé seulement au petite minorité
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Wow islamic feminism, wtf is that.
Whoever believes in such nonsense is 100% kafir, why do so many morons come up with inventions within the religion, don't they know how sinful it is to do so, basically they are kaffirs.
uh yea, RifleofAllah, you're not a muslims. Just because you made your account name "RifleofAllah" doesn't mean you can deceive me. Stop hating....*facepalm*
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Lol I'm sorry its my duty to talk out against such ideas that are foreign and completely rejected in islam. You people think feminism is some kind of modern and good concept, I truely don't pity anyone who is suffering as a result of their own stupidity, especially when that person has the cognitive capabilities to think for themeselves.
Lol it's easy to decieve people like you, it's just not in my nature to do so.
It's true. I think Muslim women are often deprived of the rights their religion rightly gave to them, which is why you get forced marriages, practically non-existent patricipation of women in politics and the like. That's not right. That's the 'Bidda': making Islam oppressive to women, when the prophet is perhaps the individual that has done the more for women in all of history! Muhammad can be seen as a feminist in the sense that he stood for women's rights.
I don't see why this should be "totally rejected in islam" as you say. And they talk about making feminism 'Islamic', because Western feminism is not fit for Muslim women. It has to be within the framework of Islam.
Besides, there are other things which are very sinful, according to the prophet: calling you brother a kaffir, as you just did, for example.
"Whoever calls his brother a kaffir is himself a kaffir"- reflect on this hadith pls.
ur a complete dumbass. i am an islamic feminist. u know why??? cos prophet muhammad gave women rights to women in the 7th century like helping them have freedom to education and introducing the hijab which helped them stop being a sex object. and idiots like you know know nothing about the deen or the hadeeth.
wouldn't you think that with or without a hijab, a woman can still be seen as a sex object by a man with a depraved mind? They still have slavery in Mauritania which is a predominately Muslim country.. and you had better be sure that some of the women who are enslaved ARE sex slaves. I don't think wearing hijab eliminates them being sexual objects. My point is a head scarf, veil or anything else, does not cure a depraved mind. You can cover, but you can't change OTHERS bad thinking of women.
a man who thinks a woman is a sex object is shamed in islam. men are told to lower their gaze when woman are around them.evil thought are from the devil and we as muslims are ordered to repel them. and if there is sex slavery in mauritania- it is banned in islam which has a quranic verse banning sexual slavery. in the Uk, many prostitiutes are enslaved by their pimps, and pimps are heroes to many (check 50 Cent). as prophet muhammad said "those who insult women are the most evil in character".
Well with all due respect , do you even know wtf is feminism.
You are creating bidah within the religion, one of the worst sins that can be commited. Yes the prophet (saw) did give women rights etc, he did these under the islamic framework and I dont see why you put feminism into the picture.
Feminism is some dip shit idea put up by women who want to go into a power struggle against men, wtf does that have to do with islamic principles and morality, obvious you dont understand islam.
Judging by your use of expletives and willingness to brand hypocrisy on someone who has likely suffered more in the defense of Islam than most, suggests you likely have little to do with Islamic principles and morality yourself. Based on the tenor of your posts, it seems you yourself fail to understand Islam in any holistic way. Also, I assume you are a university student. May I suggest you attend an introductory English class so as to improve your grammar?
Also I english is my second language so I don't expect my grammer to be perfect.
As for your criticisms, I believe you are not even muslim and so therefore have no idea about islam. Islam isn't something you can learn from a book like most people in the west do, you must live it and comprehend its teaching. Since you people are so used to be spoon fed from textbooks, you would have trouble with it.
I wasn't offering you lessons. I suggest you go find someone with knowledge of both English and Islam to better your understanding of both disciplines. Having English as your second language shouldn't mean that you fail to comprehend its basic tenants. Also, I never suggested you were not a Muslim, but yet you are quick to assume I'm not, which seems to be a basic and consistent flaw of yours. Your belief that Islam is not a textual faith lets me know where you're coming from.
While Islam is a lived experience, our tradition is embedded in text as opposed to simply being an oral tradition. You rather represent the decline in Islamic knowledge and the refusal to read, opting for a more simplified version most likely constructed in your own mind. May I remind you that the Quran is fixed as a text. The Hadith are fixed as a text. The books of Fiqh, Kalaam and Shiru, all texts from which we learn, implement and memorize the tenants of Islam.
Im sorry, during the prophet's time (saw), islam was simple and wasnt corrupted in the minds of people with useless man made philosophies.
Islam is a simple religion, it would be foolish for allah to send down a religion that is intellectually difficult to grasp.
The only thing scholars are for is in connecting the context of the hadiths to the teachings of the quran, but during the prophet's time there was no such problems that required contextualisation.
Islam is for everyone, both the intellectual and simpleton like yourself. Thanks for not swearing this time around. I would be interested in the book of Seerah you've read (if you read), since it was always my impression that the Prophet (saw) struggled for the sake of Islam and that his conditions were difficult with numerous competing interests to negotiate at the time. Also if I may, it would be desirable to use an uppercase "A" when referring to Allah (swt) out of reverence for our Creator.
Actually it doesnt matter if I use lower case "a" because in arabic there isn't any upper or lower cases (you would know if you knew any arabic).
I read many books of seerah whether it is branded as radical or moderate. The thing is that the word radical was made up to brand any muslim that never compromises his religion, so I guess I am one.
As for upper case/lower case,we're using a language that operates under different linguistic constraints.Like I said, I'd be happy to carry this correspondence in Arabic.You may have missed my previous offer. As for 'radical' the etymology of the word does not lead back to a reference for Muslims, nor does it serve as a synonym. You're simply making things up now in an effort to better suite your own arguments. Islam is for everyone, including simple people like yourself. Allah (swt) knows best.
Brother/Sister, why are you even wasting your time with someone like 'tyenuj'? It's clear he has a massive intellectual deficiency at play. He doesn't believe in reading! He believes the Quran isn't logical and has a philosophy similar to Jews in which he believes born Muslims are more valuable than converts. He sounds more like an illiterate taqfiri than anything else. He swears and uses foul language! Stop wasting your time with him. You seem to have more important things to do, like reading!
Islam isn't for everyone, it is for people that are ready to remain loyal to it under any condition.
You seem to fail to see the military side of islam, you approach islam like christianity, where you offer the other side of your cheek. Islam isn't like other relgions, it isn't a fashion accessory and requires seriousness.
Also I dont try to make things suite my arguments, if I am wrong I'd be glad to learn my lesson.
Now you're speaking about Christianity, a military approach and loyalty. So much for a consistent stream of thought. I assumed we were talking about Islamic knowledge in general, and not specifics. I hadn't realized you studied 'mathematical logic' for a year now. Judging by your approach to Islam, a year's worth of study makes you a master logician. I concede (not really). I'm done with this argument. And you seem to be ignoring my offer of continuing in Arabic. Why is that? Assalamwualaikum.
There's no need to continue in arabic. Ok then we can continue talking about islamic knowledge in general, but this has nothing to do with tariq ramadan.
Also knowledge is useless whn you're ready to compromise you're deen in hope of appeasing others. I assume you read books of seerah, hadiths and the quran, And should realise that tariq ramadan is contradicting the teachings of islam.
Please remember that showing off is considered a form of shirk...for Allah SWT does not love those who think of themselves as better than others. Never did the prophet ever conduct himself such way, because one never knows what a person is like in the eyes of Allah.
One last thing as well. I gather from your posts your dislike of books and intellectualism with respect to Islam, but a solid lesson in mantiq would serve you well. Your last post was difficult to grasp due to its logical inconsistencies, especially your last paragraph. I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but even a false statement can conform to basic rules of logic. The Quran is a logical text as was the Prophet (saw) as a man, as understood in the Sunnah.
Quran is not a logical book, it is the word of allah (swt), and who is to say everything in it is logical, your not supposed to question it, but follow it.
From your posts I assume you are a revert/convert and that you have alot to learn about islam. Islam cannot be compromised with, it is not compatable with the west or the east and islam will conquer the world. My statments are simple just like the teachings of islam.
The Quran constantly asks us to reflect. Allah (swt) is inherently logical; for people to believe they have to be convinced.The Prophet came to us as a mercy and with proof of Allah's (swt) existence.I gather you prefer assumptions over proof. And if I were a convert, what difference would it make? Abu Bakr (ra) was a convert, as were the early Muslims you claim to so admire and replicate. Since when did the Prophet (saw) discriminate against Muslims?You are a simple person. May Allah Guide you.
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Allah (swt) doesn't have to be logical, you really dont't know what logic is, I studied mathematical logic for a year now.
And sure, no difference between a raised muslim and a revert, its just that alot of reverts have difficulty in understanding for a while, which is to be expected regarding their circumstances.
It's brothers and sisters like you that should worry us all. Individuals and groups that are opposed to knowledge and strict fidelity to the tenants of our deen in favor of your own emotionalisms and prejudices. I would assume your anti-book position extends to institutions such as Al-Azhar and the like. Scary thought.
I'm done. But we can continue this if you'd like. We can also continue this discussion in Arabic, French or Urdu if any of those languages fair better for you. Fi'Iman'Allah.
You know, you are the reason why so many Muslims get put off their religion. Are you aware making takfir is a huge sin? Read the hadith by the prophet (pbuh) where he says surely one who calls another disbeleiver, one of them is. Your takfiri ways are repulsive, against the Qu'ran and Sunnah. It would be advisable to study basic premises of fiqh first before making such serious allegations. If you can refute the idea with intellectual evidence, do so, but name calling is childish and desperate
The motivation behind educating Muslim women in Europe at far greater rates than men is the same for foreigners of other faiths. The Muslim man is seen as competition most especially because Muslim women once they can not well educated men of the same faith may marry white Westerners.
Wow! Gabriella! How profound.. I am not Muslim & think women SHOULD be educated, but your noitcing the MOTIVE behind it in Europe is dead on, with the motive I see behind the allowance of White American society to make it easier for the "black" woman to excel easier than her man.. Because he is a threat to the power of "white" males. That started during the slave trade with a process found in the Willie Lynch letter. I do see they are created the same stereotype for both men, Violent Criminal.
If half of the population gets abused, their work benefitting the abusers, that whole nation centers it efforts wrongly because people cannot trust honest work paying fairly as the major law of the world. Consequently that country stays poor because it fails to work for its own good.
I get so sick and tired of so-called fucking "experts" like this total boob! A man who puts on a sports jacket, a serious expression and furrows his brow in earnest in an attempt to sound like his brain is just overflowing with knowledge. BULLSHIT!
He wouldn't know the truth if it hit him smack between the eyes like a two-by-four!
The TRUTH is that the "religious" are demented social retards, that religion encourages crime & abuse. Religions are ALL based on PACKS & Piles of ridiculous LIES!
what about Quran 4:34 where it says that 'disobedient women' should be beat? does this mean that if a man does not want his wife to study or work, she'd be disobeying him and therefore deserves a beating?
you should take a closer look to this verse, there is diffrent possibilities to understand the verb "daraba" in the quran in cases relating to humans it is mostly used as "to calender" or "to coin". Take a closer look to find out, what this verse is about.
translating it as "to beat" is a respectless interpretation, respectless to creation, respectless to the human being.
The prophet forbade the beating of women & never hurt them. In in another verse (2:231) God specifically says NOT to hurt any woman and whoever does that has committed a sin. God also has told us to read and follow the best meaning in the Quran (39:18). There are no contradictions in the Quran.
Saadaya, find the defintion of the verb 'daraba' and there are a multitude of meanings. Now check the Quran translation for other verses containing the same arabic word 'daraba' (e.g 4:94) and you will find the same word translated differently. For more in-depth study, read books by Asma Barlas, Amina Wudud and other scholars.
6) I take the laws of God, and given the case, and the wisdom, try the best i can do to reach an acceptable position. But with a base. the subject is a matter of law. check the law. we are talking about women in muslims country, not to be mixed with women in non islamic land, where the jugment are not the same.
you're right. but we live in a very small world now with the internet and travelling so what effects other women will effect me and my daughters in the future. the map is divided by lines but it's just a picture, in reality u can step over those lines and come knock on my front door if you wanted to and effect me personally. so i think this is something that should concern everybody because as human beings(not just a muslim or a man)u must live together.
Sure, it should concern everybody and I admire your determination to stress everyone's rights. However, what's most important is education. Muslim women need to learn their rights under Islam so that they don't just watch men oppress them and non-Muslims have to educate themselves about Islam first if they want to fight these battles: you can't go up to a woman who loves her religion and start insulting that religion because you want to
Its frustrating to watch something grow into something it's not supposed be.You could ask me "how do you know how its supposed to be?" but its extremely obvious that people arent happy doing what they're doing but they keep doing the same thing hoping it will change the world.This is text book insanity.
feminisim or what ever you want to call it is important in a world where humans belive that they are intelligent beings but still use violence, manipulation and war to take control over things and people to make themselves happier and richer. so i really think we've spent enough time making sure men are taken care of in every society that we have a good idea of what masculanism is!
Feminism started because Western women were being oppressed and decided enough was enough and started fighting for their rights. However, over 1400 years ago the Quran asserted the equality and rights of women so Muslim women did not and do not need feminism. All they have to do is pick up their Qurans and say to the so called religious men: "This is what Islam really says." and face them with those things. It's all about education, both women and men need to know the rights Islam talks about.
i've also never heard of 50 women raping a man because he MIGHT have brought dishonor to his family, or worn the wrong clothes at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person, or is this impossible?
Sister, take it easy. If i take your arguments, you should know that if men are stronger physically, women are stronger emotionally. So yes, they will be winning in their respective fields. I'm not talking about that! i'm talking about fairness. and who's bring it in! A people can be fooled one time, but not all the time?! who brought those things in the first place after all?
lot's of books have been written on this topic(by the bictims themselves!). it didn't just come out of the blue. i know men and women were created differently, but this is 2008. people have learned that using physical strength to get what they want, or to prove something is not right. so what about fairness. it's what i'm talking about aswell
they are forced to cover them selves so men don't lose control. it seems to me that men are the second sex (possibly not even an evolved human) if they can't even keep it in thier pants when looking at a woman.i' ve never heard of a woman losing control of herself by seeing a mans face, legs etc. she can still focus on the things she needs to do like i.e. walking down the street to get from a to b.
That is not the reason they are to cover, rather because it it asked of them. Either,You are really not understanding anything i'm tellng or you are speaking with emotions, and that is not the way of a discourse.
so if it is asked of them then they don't HAVE to do it, right. if that's the case why do i hear women who decide not to cover them selves getting harrassed, spit on and sometimes worse. besides why even bother asking someone to hide thier identity, it's insulting. women shouldn't be scared of thier own community bcos they are women.
Because of ignorance. We have to separate talk about Islam itself and what it teaches and oppressive individuals or cultures. Islam says no compulsion in Religion, Islam says that just because your ancestors do something wrong doesn't mean you have to follow blindly. Unfortunately many men and women are not educated about their religion and are unable to fulfill the first command of the Quran "Read!", they don't educate themselves in their own religion and this is the real problem.
@ElvenInk: I agree with your comment. However, its not about "lack of education" all the time; its selfish interest as well - twisting religion to suit your own personal and selfish interests (unfortunate, but true).
@sabashsabash i think that comes down to lack of fear and consciousness of Allah - this is the main problem; people are not afraid that their evil actions will be dealt with eventually.
Forget about feminism! who defines it and according to what? and if you think that the west gives rights to women, you are just caught up in period we live in. We are living in the worst period in the muslim history yoooo! nowaday woman don`t even understand what `aura` is.
different, yes (God created us differently) but equally precious and equally enabled for ALL of the rights of life, learning, profession. You fear this? Here's news: the enlightenment has come! Come on out and join us!
Enlightenment? pleeeeease if you want to give woman rights, you have to check the men rights first. Then everything's feels in the puzzle. masculanism? If you don't understand that, leave it.
takillah, tell me your thoughts on masculanism and y a cake should only be divided into fifths, and what this has to do with Islam and the way woman in saudi arabia are locked in thier houses with bars on the windows because the law says they can't be without a male by thier side at all times.
Saudi arabia is a very bad example for the application of Islam (right of women?) and they do not hold any authority as far as the scholarly community is concerned. After all they are wahabis, and so the seed of extremism. They happen to be ruling the area that makes them special.. About the 'fifth' that was just a parabole and it seems like you do not understand rhetorics very well. If you learn the rights of woman in the methodology of ahl sunnah wa jama'a.
2) the right of men is given to them, at the same time as the right of women.
There, you have no one usurping somebody else's right. That which makes a problem cannot make the solution (I mean that's pretty basic). The people who are supporting feminism, in most cases, have an intention of giving women their due rights. That is very beautiful! How do you go about it?
3) Nowadays muslims countries are looking very bad because their scholars are not able to rise above the water in which they are in (oppression). THEY are the people who are in need of rights today, NOT women. because when they (scholars) are given their rights, not only women will be given their rights, but others too (and there is a lot). Until then, let us stop supporting oppressive regime who are annihilation indigenous scholars as we speak leaving the way to all kind of extremism.
what scholars do u mean? people who find something very important to them will find away to share thier message, and i assume alot of these scholars are men and they are free to leave the country if they feel it's that important to them to spread that message.
I hate the term "feminism or feminist", why should I label myself a "feminist" in order to prove that I have all the rights I need. Islam gives me all the rights I need, saying that I'm a muslim should be enough to indicate that I have those "rights" that feminisim provides or is associated with...
I'm so tired of this "Islam gave me all the rights I need" mantra!! People that keep using this should be honest with themselves..!! Yes Islam gave women rights i dont contest that but you need to admitt that if it were not for the feminist movement we wouldn't as women have the rights that Islam had granted us back to us... WE ALL KNOW that women have been and in some ways still are oppressed in some parts of the muslim world. Get it right...
Yes, many women are oppressed in, not only some parts of the world, but many parts of the world, I do not deny that, but that is not because there lacks "feminism". It's because their cultural fanaticism does not allow those rights that are granted by Islam to be practiced. Besides "feminism" has become such a factioned theory. Think about feminism and how and where it is tought and you will find that it is often tought as a theory instead of an all-encompassing guide.
I'm a muslim girl i digress with u, sorry. It iS bcos of the absence of feminist movement in those parts of the world that inhibit the granting of rights by law for women. This is no mere accident, feminist movement are thwarted and suppressed by 'ulama's' and thier likes. Indeed it is a theory, muslims may shape it to thier own liking but pathriachy must not be tolerated in any case, ever. So says a muslim girl. :)
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tigersforchrist 2 months ago
Success for Managers is: Time to help my own people realize who they can be, not just what they can do.
slapcompany 4 months ago
SHAYTAAN
ITFEEEEE
LearnToReadTheKuran 5 months ago
@LearnToReadTheKuran ??
awjan6 3 weeks ago
This guy is a dangerous fundamentalist unterneath his sleek façade.
pigsaresmart 7 months ago
Br. Tariq thank you for educating our ummah.
ElvitaQuinones 8 months ago 3
@Sortsitar i said that it the relationship between a man and a woman which dictate superiority and respect,a woman as a mother is much superior to her son,who obviously is a man. man and woman in a society should have responsibilities according to their talents and they should have all the rights according to their responsibilities.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar I have also noticed life,and have found that men and women are different.i have never seen a boxing match between a man and a woman.never seen a man conceive.men are superior to women in some spheres and women are superior in other sphers.and have found that relationships dictate the superiority and respect.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar 4:It disgraces a man when he tries to be a she man and it disgraces a woman when she acts like a he woman. Man and woman who try to do the same infact make a mockery of the division made by Almighty, and are cursed by Him.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar 3:The duties assigned, to man and woman, by nature have their own importance individually. One cannot argue that to take care of a household is not important compared to running an office, or to raise children is degrading compared to trade or learning war techniques. All the roles played by men and women for the survival of collective and social system are equally important.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar 2:The very existence of human race depends on the fact that each one of them should proceed with what God has made them capable of.Surprisingly, people do not understand that a man can reveal his bravery in the battlefield, but is not fit to become a houseman and take care of household chores. Similarly a woman can be a perfect housewife but is not fit to become an army general and wage war.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar 1: a man and a woman should, according to their natural inclinations and aptitudes, move in their respective orbits like sun and the moon in order to carry out the divine will.In a society both man and woman should have responsibilities according to their talents and they should have all the rights according to their responsibilities.We know that a woman can conceive but a man cannot. It is neither shameful for a woman to conceive nor for a man not to do so.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
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THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar Islam does not forbid women to earn a living. It has only freed them from the responsibility of earning, which rests with men..An instition cannot have two heads.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar Islam does not forbid women to earn a living. It has only freed them from the responsibility of earning, which rests with men..An instition cannot have two heads.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar A mother can beat even a grown-up son,but a son cannot, simply because they are not equal.Believe me if you are going to place a father and a mother on equal footing with their children that will be disastrous,the respect toward a father,towards a mother will be thrown into the dustbin.such a family set-up will become a herd of animals.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar do you believe a mother and a child should be equal,if a mother can beat her rebellious son,why cannot a son beat his mother?don't you believe in equality? and why do think that a wife is oppressed if her husband is given the administrative authority.the family is like an instituion and like any other instituion it also needs a head.The best husband is the one who is best to his wife.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
@Sortsitar in my opinion the quran wants us to look at relationships between men and women rather than gender.for instance,man as a husband is the head ot the family because of certain physical and psychological advantages,but this very man is subservient to his mother and obviously she is a woman.so what we undertand from the quran is that men and women as human beings are equal but when they enter into a relationship their roles change.
THEGREATESTUMMAH 9 months ago
i wish men in religion period are like this. he is not talking about women taking over men, he is saying not to take scripture literally which can go with any religion. i know Christan men who take it literally and they really do want their women at home in the kitchen.
sillykatz 9 months ago
@sillykatz cuz thats their right place
eliasnyc1 9 months ago
if ever there's a god above our heads, he may bless him..
jeffrey0goines 11 months ago
Very interesting. This man has a lovely voice to listen to as well, very relaxing :)
DynamicScherzo 11 months ago 2
Second of all Im not the one who started judging you and the way you dress. You are here judging the west all over the place, telling us that western women are insecure the jugdement is on your side. Fine dress like you please, we dont care. But dont call western women, sluts, insecure, etc etc just because we dont conform to your standards.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
Im sorry darling there we clearly desagree, men dont dress women in our society, they dress themselves. Sure there is Marketing of all sorts making suggestions to women and how they should dress. But nowhere will you see them being detained by the police because they are showing a lock of hair(like in IRAN) or Saudi Arabia. Please dont compare the incomparable. Where in the West women are detained by men for showing their arms for example?
carosinsoles 1 year ago
as things are now feminism in islam shares the same fate much like ice put in the glaring sun shine. you have to decide. do you opt for patriarchy or emancipation?
mdinka 1 year ago
if emancipation of the human kind would really be one of islam`s main characteristics like the prohibition of alcohol or the 5 pillars of islam then even for the most uneducated and ignorant believer standing up in the name of women rights would be the most natural thing to do. in this regard islam has simply failed. making the rights of women (we are talking about half of the worlds population) the 6th pillar of islam and it could become something we can refer to in the 21st century.
mdinka 1 year ago
He tries to make it sound like Islam is compatible with western culture, but he is in fact, trying to Islamicize Europe. I was fooled at first, he seems reasonable, but he has spoken to Muslims telling them to pretend they support western culture so that they can gain more power within it. He wants the whole world to be muslim.
pseudonamed 1 year ago
@pseudonamed Islam is Compatible. and if you knew your History you would know that islam was THE FIRST ideology to give Women Written rights, before Islam women did not have these rights.
and the Contribution to Science, Culture and the Arts is vast.
Without Islam there would be NO Western Culture, it would be very different.
if you want the evidence just let me know.
funkyfaz55 1 year ago
@funkyfaz55 I know that the middle east has contributed much to science, the arts, etc. but I do not believe it is because of their religion any more than western science is "because" of Christianity. All cultures contribute to the world, and it would be sad if only one had dominance everywhere.
pseudonamed 1 year ago
@pseudonamed no you are wrong. Before Islam The Arabs were nobodies, Alexander the Great ignored them. Within 50 Years of Islam The Arabs, and future Muslims would become the GREATEST, yes it's true, of all civilizationas.
Christianity cannot claim this. It's a Fact the Muslims Laid the Foundations for the Ranaissance centuries before The Europeans created it. So it was Muslims who started this. It's WELL documented. Do You require the Evidence?
funkyfaz55 1 year ago
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2006kcl 1 year ago
@pseudonamed Well that would make sense because he is Muslim. Islam is a means of freedom for peolple; bringing it's laws into the West would only make the West less obsessed with captialism and reducing women to objects. These are just a few problems it would solve. So yeh, "Islamaicising" Europe really wouldn't be a bad thing.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl I really don't see how women would be less objects in an Islamic state, considering they are treated as such in many Islamic countries - faceless objects which only have "freedom" if their father or husband feels like granting it. I also don't see how muclims are less capitalist, considering that so many leave Islamic states so that they can have a better, more wealthy life in Europe. Why would you leave a country that fits your morals for one that doesn't, other than for money?
pseudonamed 1 year ago
@pseudonamed the is a difference between Islam and Islamic countries. Most countries in the world are corrupted by money and cultural barbaric traditions. If you read in your history books the impact islam had and still has then you would see that it is a peaceful religion. When I said Islam (i.e. Islamic principles) be brought to the west, I meant the principles only. Principles such as honouring women, spending your wealth in charity - this is Islam. Anything contradicting that isn't Islam.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@pseudonamed also, im a muslim and i cover and i'm greatly proud of it.. i have great friends who dont cover up mostly non-muslim friends and they are disrespected on the street and whenever they go out and they freely admit that. I'd rather not be treated like that thanks. one of my friends was sexually assaulted in a club some time ago and she now vows to never go back. dont feel any less free than you. dont stereotype people just to make yourself feel better.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl Well I think every woman should have the right to dress however makes her feel the most comfortable. Whether she decides to cover or not is up to her. I can totally understand wanting to dress modestly, I do so myself. But if a woman wants to dress up she should be able to as well. In the west women are free to cover up modestly, or not. I would not want to live somewhere that I MUST cover up, I want to have the choice.
pseudonamed 1 year ago
@pseudonamed the thing you dont realise is that you're totally contradicting yourself. you know for a fact women and men can dress as they please, and you reply with "but in Islamic countries women dont have the choice"..
2006kcl 1 year ago
@pseudonamed ...and you make it out as though the West is so "free" and you can do as you please. but that's not true. You cant dress as you please in the West because e.g. you cant walk around naked if you like and now what's happening is the politicians here are trying to ban modesty. West is just as bad as the countries you think are so barbaric, you just dont see it yet. The west is all you know that's why you have a narrow point of view about things. why dont you try talking to veiled women
2006kcl 1 year ago
@pseudonamed ...you might actually just realise that the veiled woman is probably happier than you, more confident than you, and doesnt feel this intense desire to display her beauty to be accepted. People who do that are just insecure with themselves.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl Please stop the islamic chauvinism! such as displayed here: "Muslims would become the GREATEST". Maybe you show a lot of modesty in your way of dressing, but you surely dont show any modesty in how you express yourself. And if you think the West is just as bad as other barbaric countries. Why do you choose to live in the West? Your profile says you are from Canada. I myself are happy that i can choose to wear whatever i want and I dont have to wear a tent to be modest.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@carosinsoles i can live where I choose. No country defines me, inc the west or an islamic country. my religion of peace defines me. Calling the hijab a tent really shows how wonderfully open-minded you are. Muslims who cover understand why u choose not to, so dont use our modesty as another reason for your own internal insecurities. we are happy being modest the way we believe God has told us to be modest. who's your God? the fashion magazines and men who demand to see your flesh.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@carosinsoles and since you mentioned "tent"..your tent is the makeup you use to hide away your real face.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl mashallaah sister
toby1154 1 year ago
@carosinsoles and please dont misquote me.. where did i write that quote, and if anything, quote the entire message i wrote jus so myself and other can see what ur referring to exactly. chauvinism btw is in all those magazines you read that gives you your personality. that and alcohol. God forbid you could actually have a personality without alcohol. tc.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@carosinsoles you are jus upset with my messages because you have no personality. look at muslim women who are covered, they are in schools teaching, they are doctors, lawyers. the "tent" is not a barrier, it forces people to respect the personality and skills that person possesses. your insecurities are that you think no one will acceot you unless you put on your makeup, wear uncomfortable tight clothing and act the part society want from u. you'd realise that if u were honest with yourself.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl Well you think a god told you to cover! Who is my god? Well my god will never be a god that tells men can punish their women with a stick !Or that the earth was layed out like a carpet. Or that its ok to marry six year olds. Its so typical that u call me racist or fascist. The only ones who are fascist are you, you call other people kuffar openly and you think you are gods chosen people. You oppenly admit to everyone that you are betterand purer:and you dare call me a fascist??
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@carosinsoles there we go. what you really think. listen lady, i never called you anything. if you were open minded and had no negative views (which you clearly do about muslims) then u wouldnt have posted anything inthe first place. and yes u are insecure, that's why you're still rambling on about how free you are. i dont care. just dont put labels on muslim women to make yourself feel better.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@carosinsoles also, we dont think we are God's chosen people.. that's the Jews. so dont get all your rascist views mixed up hun, before someone catches you and realises you know nothing about the world.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@carosinsoles in addition if you have a problem with the muslim woman's dress, you clearly have a problem with nuns and the like. and if you're about to turn around and say, "i have no problems with nun", then that makes YOU the hypocrite my dear, because nuns and the muslim woman's attire look the same. i resemble more of mother mary than you do sweetheart. you dont have a problem with Christianity, because it's associated with white people. but Islam, it's associated with brown. ur racist.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl You call everyone a racist who does not agree with your believes give me a break. And about being fascist just for telling you not to live somewhere you dont like, thast not fascism thats common sense. I myself I am a european Inmigrant in latin america and I would never talk about the culture and the continent that received me and welcomed me the way you talk about the west.I have respect for the culture that welcomed me not like you.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@2006kcl For your information I have cousins and nieces of all colours and I am not a racist. My family is totally mixed. So you can take your racist comments and throw them at someone else. Maybe you are ignorant and associate Christianity with white people. But I know perfecly well Christianity is practice in souther hemisphere of Africa and Latin America and started in the middle east with people of darker skin so No dear I your assumptions are not at all true.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@carosinsoles and i hint your racism seeping from your message. I can live where I like, that's not upto you. and the fact that i can live where I like just emphasizes how much of a universal religion Islam is. it can be practised anywhere. so take your fascism and insecurities somewhere else.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl and about your ridiculous assumptions over a person you never talked to , seen or met. About me being insecure. Well they just make me laugh. And your bla bla bla about universal is also ridiculous. If you think the west is bad and not a good place to live, you would not live there periode. So stop being hypocritical.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@carosinsoles and all those things you said about islam are so untrue and so boring, you sould like you're regurgitating out of your fascist and chauvinistic magazines.. so yeh, you are fascist. a typical one too. i can live where i please. only a fascist would tell another person to leave a country they grew up in just because they didn't like them. so yeh, you're definetly a fascist. why dont you take a good look in the mirror.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@carosinsoles and regarding, quote: your ridiculous assumptions over a person you never talked to , seen or met. About me being insecure. well, the same ca go for you my dear. when did you sit down with a muslim woman and get to know her and her ideals and her perspective on life? never i am sure. so if you're looking to point your finger at a hyporcite, remember there's 3 always pointing back. let your hatred and insecuities go. you may feel better about yourself.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl f you dont have anything constructive to say, then dont reply. i'm on here explaining why i and other muslim dress the way we do. and telling you for sure that we are not oppressed, which you just wont accept because you want to believe that opposite even if the truth was hitting you in the face. the only reason i can think that you'd do this is because you're insecure. you are scared the muslim women will encourage you to cover up the outside because u feel theres nothing on the inside
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl Well im not so shallow to say that how you look on the outside,whether you cover up or not defines whether someone is empty inside.With this argument you practically say western women who dont cover up are empty, maybe thats true in many cases.But at least with a western woman i am able to look in her eyes and see if something is wrong.With women in burkhas thats not even possible.THis garment dont allows me to see anything her smile, her eyes, her gestures it strips away her humanity.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@2006kcl I dont care how you dress, can dress as you want, as long as you dont come in to a culture and criticize our way of live. I dont care about nuns dressing like they do,if thats the life they choose its up to them. But you must remember nuns never have to cover their face. I can look at her none and recognize her on the streets, see if she is in a bad mood a good mood, she when she smiles etc etc. Please dont compare a nuns atire with a burkah because its not the same thing!
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@2006kcl And I also know Islam is practiced and believed in in countries like kosovo, turkey, macedonia. Where the population is white, so I dont know where you get that from? That I would associate Islam with darker people? Races are races and religions are religions and they dont have anything to do with each other. But you conveniantly mix them so you can call anyone who criticizes your belives a racist. Its a tactic to distract from the main issue, its a red herring.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@2006kcl And your comment about you looking more like "Mary, mother of Jesus" than me really made me laugh. See how you are trying to to claim superiority by associating with someone like her, who is considered holy by many people in the west. Well I dont want to look like Mary, Mary lived over 2000 years ago in macho chauvinistic society. I like looking to the future not to the past my dear. And I dont have to look like her to feel superior or better than others. Im not that insecure.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@carosinsoles if you are happy within yourself, then fair enough. just dont shuv the way you dress on people who DONT want to dress like you. we're really not that intrested in your fashion tips. if you're soooo secure with yourself, why are you even on here debating with me. people who are secure within themselves believe others should be too, they dont try to make others conform and be like them. you would be supporting women wearing whatever they wish - and that's my belief....
2006kcl 1 year ago
@carosinsoles ...i believe women can wear whatever they want. i am only explaining why muslim women (i.e. me included) dress the way we do. we are happy with the way we dress, in fact we love it. we dont care what you wear. so get over yourself; you're just hear to spread poison, so just take it somewhere else love. if you believed in freedom, you'd support the notion that women can wear what they want including if they choose to dress like Mother Mary, not the way you do/want.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@carosinsoles ...people like you who want others to do what THEY want etc, well, you're just as bad as the chauvinists of Mary's time. you think you're so free from a chauvinnistic society... you're living in a bubble.. you're the one who's dressing to please men, so again, like i've said time & again, have a look at yourself and you'll realise all these chauvinistic things your "against" is really the reality of your life. you live in a chauvinistic society and you dont even realise it. lol.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl Im sorry darling there we clearly desagree, men dont dress women in our society, they dress themselves. Sure there is Marketing of all sorts making suggestions to women and how they should dress. But nowhere will you see them being detained by the police because they are showing a lock of hair(like in IRAN) or Saudi Arabia. Please dont compare the incomparable. Where in the West women are detained by men for showing their arms for example?
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@2006kcl true all societies are a bit chauvinistic, because men stil have the upper hand in most parts of the world. Im not living in a bubble. You are clearly. Because saying there are no social problems with women in muslim countries is like saying there is no racism in europe. Saying there is nothing chauvinist about men dressing how they please but women have to follow strict rules is very chauvinistic. You are the one living in a bubble.
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@carosinsoles i'm glad we have established that not all countries are perfect, which i menitioned in previous posts, but yet again, you like to claim that you said these things first with your "free mind". anyway.. firstly, get ur facts straight, muslim men DO have a dress code, and it's a modest dress code.. they MUST cover themselves too, especially if women are around..but it's people like you who make a big deal about the woman's hijab that the man's dress code falls on deaf ears, like yours
2006kcl 11 months ago
@carosinsoles p/s if you love living your life, then why are you fighting others about the way they choose to live theirs on YouTube. im not here bashing your lifestlye, im here explaining why i choose to dress the way i do. if you're so very content, then live your life and stop carrying this anger in your heart and directing at me who is perfectly comfortable and secure in my skin.food for thought.salaam/peace.goodluck with all your endeavours. i'm finished here,what more could i possible say.
2006kcl 11 months ago
@2006kcl And if you want to talk about fascism? why dont we talk about the pact of ummar ? telling christians how big there houses can be? Yes you do believe to be the peoples choosen people as do the jews. And both are fascist believes. We are better than the rest , the rest are kuffar. And you pointing your finger at me for saying you shouldnt live in culture you hate and calling me fascist for that Oh please!!!
carosinsoles 1 year ago
@pseudonamed why dont you ask yourself why you need to display all your beauty to the world. Ask yourself.. who are you doing it for? I bet you'll use the cliche "its for me". Getting attention from men does not help your confidence in any way. One should be confident in themselves without the need for compliments and attention. Just because you may have the need to do that to make yourself feel better PLEASE don't put your insecurities on veiled women who are really happy the way they are.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@pseudonamed also re your comment about western women having a choice to dress modestly or not... the choice that's there, yeh, that's great.. but it comes as a cost if you choose not to dress modestly, as there are some who are attracted to these "looser" women and take advantage of them in violent ways. Usually in the west, when a woman is sexually assaulted, people blame the woman for the way she must have dressed, so much for freedom hey.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@pseudonamed we don't need men to make us feel better about ourselves. that's true freedom if you really think about it and if youre really honest with yourself.
2006kcl 1 year ago
@2006kcl the 'bad' things you have attached to Islam are cultural problems, i.e they do not come from the religion. And being capatalistic is not the same as trying to earn a living to support your family. We don't send our elderly parents off to nursing homes or leave them to die alone, we look after our families. Is a huge emphasis on maintaining good family ties and looking after your loved ones in Islam.
2006kcl 1 year ago
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misshallsschool 1 year ago
Beautiful....amazing man
CLONE HIM
we have soo many ignorant stupid muslim men
nacaaswanacas 1 year ago 25
@nacaaswanacas pray for us muslim men.....we need good mothers to raise good men
dontforgetwat 3 months ago
That guy is the biggest joke in the history Islam!!!
I hope kuffur wins him over...that way muslims will have one less to deal with..
Shamrockdalegend 1 year ago
@Shamrockdalegend
go kill yourself fool
1 less Wahabbi/ Salai ignorant
nacaaswanacas 1 year ago
@nacaaswanacas i think u are ignorant
peachey1986 1 year ago
@peachey1986
I think same of you .... my comments are pretty clear wahabbis/salafis are breeding within us like virus destrotying our religion .... u will cry ya Allah when its too late
nacaaswanacas 1 year ago 2
@Shamrockdalegend you're praying for someone to apostasize?! Q. you feel good about yourself? iman spot on? didn't prophet pray for people to turn to Islam? even those who violently opposed. as for Tariq - u dont have to agree with him. shame on u for wishing such a thing! are u perfect?! you'l be accountable for your careless comments on youtube and your inconsideration for those u unfortunately represent
peachey1986 1 year ago
Tariq ramadan, another god damn munafiq, he gave a lecture at my university, and all I can say is that he is a pure munafiq.
Yh lets integrate into europe and accept thier filthy way of life, how pathetic.
tyenuj 2 years ago
you lecture me about bidah, but you yourself have got the nerve to call another muslim a hypocrite, when the Lord basically said in the quran do noy say to another muslim that they are not muslim.
ladylusciouz 2 years ago
A person who believes that muslims can integrate into european (secular) society and compromise their own religion is a hypocrit.
Correct, if you call another muslim a hyporcit or a kaffir without justification, then its equivalent to commiting apostacy, but it is 100% clear that this man is a hypocrit, anyone who compromises islam to anything else is a hypocrit,
He even had a debate with ayan hirsi ali, instead of ripping her head off, now thats hypocrasy.
tyenuj 2 years ago
matchs my views as an American muslimi woman who chooses to wear the hijab- great video!
smiley3face33 2 years ago
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Holy bible, 2nd Corinthians 3:17 reads, Now The Lord is a Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty (freedom). The hostility against freedom of expressions, and of art, and of religions in Islamic countries is an indication of the presence of another spirit who opposes the One True God who delights in Freedom of Choice. Joshua 24:15 Choose for yourself this day whom you will serve
123dsj123 2 years ago
leather rabbit
MartinKleinhuber 2 years ago
Tariq Ramadan is a great intellectuele !!! All muslims (and non muslims too) can learn a lot from him!!
AmitaF123Fa 2 years ago 3
Well he seemed very stupid to me when I attended a lecture he gave.
He really has absolutely no idea about what he is talking about.
tyenuj 2 years ago
Je suis déçu que cette conversation n'est pas sous-titrée pour comprendre ce que Mr Tariq Ramadan pourrait dire, j'aime bien l'écouter, voilà ce genre de problème qu'on rencontre, c'est dommage que cest adressé seulement au petite minorité
krisly77 3 years ago
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Wow islamic feminism, wtf is that.
Whoever believes in such nonsense is 100% kafir, why do so many morons come up with inventions within the religion, don't they know how sinful it is to do so, basically they are kaffirs.
RifleOfAllah 3 years ago
uh yea, RifleofAllah, you're not a muslims. Just because you made your account name "RifleofAllah" doesn't mean you can deceive me. Stop hating....*facepalm*
Hejhvordanhardudet 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Lol I'm sorry its my duty to talk out against such ideas that are foreign and completely rejected in islam. You people think feminism is some kind of modern and good concept, I truely don't pity anyone who is suffering as a result of their own stupidity, especially when that person has the cognitive capabilities to think for themeselves.
Lol it's easy to decieve people like you, it's just not in my nature to do so.
RifleOfAllah 3 years ago
It's true. I think Muslim women are often deprived of the rights their religion rightly gave to them, which is why you get forced marriages, practically non-existent patricipation of women in politics and the like. That's not right. That's the 'Bidda': making Islam oppressive to women, when the prophet is perhaps the individual that has done the more for women in all of history! Muhammad can be seen as a feminist in the sense that he stood for women's rights.
PloughTheSky 3 years ago 2
I don't see why this should be "totally rejected in islam" as you say. And they talk about making feminism 'Islamic', because Western feminism is not fit for Muslim women. It has to be within the framework of Islam.
Besides, there are other things which are very sinful, according to the prophet: calling you brother a kaffir, as you just did, for example.
"Whoever calls his brother a kaffir is himself a kaffir"- reflect on this hadith pls.
PloughTheSky 3 years ago 3
ur a complete dumbass. i am an islamic feminist. u know why??? cos prophet muhammad gave women rights to women in the 7th century like helping them have freedom to education and introducing the hijab which helped them stop being a sex object. and idiots like you know know nothing about the deen or the hadeeth.
ladylusciouz 3 years ago 6
wouldn't you think that with or without a hijab, a woman can still be seen as a sex object by a man with a depraved mind? They still have slavery in Mauritania which is a predominately Muslim country.. and you had better be sure that some of the women who are enslaved ARE sex slaves. I don't think wearing hijab eliminates them being sexual objects. My point is a head scarf, veil or anything else, does not cure a depraved mind. You can cover, but you can't change OTHERS bad thinking of women.
WONDAWOMAN 2 years ago
a man who thinks a woman is a sex object is shamed in islam. men are told to lower their gaze when woman are around them.evil thought are from the devil and we as muslims are ordered to repel them. and if there is sex slavery in mauritania- it is banned in islam which has a quranic verse banning sexual slavery. in the Uk, many prostitiutes are enslaved by their pimps, and pimps are heroes to many (check 50 Cent). as prophet muhammad said "those who insult women are the most evil in character".
ladylusciouz 2 years ago
Well with all due respect , do you even know wtf is feminism.
You are creating bidah within the religion, one of the worst sins that can be commited. Yes the prophet (saw) did give women rights etc, he did these under the islamic framework and I dont see why you put feminism into the picture.
Feminism is some dip shit idea put up by women who want to go into a power struggle against men, wtf does that have to do with islamic principles and morality, obvious you dont understand islam.
tyenuj 2 years ago
Judging by your use of expletives and willingness to brand hypocrisy on someone who has likely suffered more in the defense of Islam than most, suggests you likely have little to do with Islamic principles and morality yourself. Based on the tenor of your posts, it seems you yourself fail to understand Islam in any holistic way. Also, I assume you are a university student. May I suggest you attend an introductory English class so as to improve your grammar?
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
Oh sorry no need for your lessons.
Also I english is my second language so I don't expect my grammer to be perfect.
As for your criticisms, I believe you are not even muslim and so therefore have no idea about islam. Islam isn't something you can learn from a book like most people in the west do, you must live it and comprehend its teaching. Since you people are so used to be spoon fed from textbooks, you would have trouble with it.
tyenuj 2 years ago
I wasn't offering you lessons. I suggest you go find someone with knowledge of both English and Islam to better your understanding of both disciplines. Having English as your second language shouldn't mean that you fail to comprehend its basic tenants. Also, I never suggested you were not a Muslim, but yet you are quick to assume I'm not, which seems to be a basic and consistent flaw of yours. Your belief that Islam is not a textual faith lets me know where you're coming from.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
While Islam is a lived experience, our tradition is embedded in text as opposed to simply being an oral tradition. You rather represent the decline in Islamic knowledge and the refusal to read, opting for a more simplified version most likely constructed in your own mind. May I remind you that the Quran is fixed as a text. The Hadith are fixed as a text. The books of Fiqh, Kalaam and Shiru, all texts from which we learn, implement and memorize the tenants of Islam.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
Im sorry, during the prophet's time (saw), islam was simple and wasnt corrupted in the minds of people with useless man made philosophies.
Islam is a simple religion, it would be foolish for allah to send down a religion that is intellectually difficult to grasp.
The only thing scholars are for is in connecting the context of the hadiths to the teachings of the quran, but during the prophet's time there was no such problems that required contextualisation.
tyenuj 2 years ago
Comment removed
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
Islam is for everyone, both the intellectual and simpleton like yourself. Thanks for not swearing this time around. I would be interested in the book of Seerah you've read (if you read), since it was always my impression that the Prophet (saw) struggled for the sake of Islam and that his conditions were difficult with numerous competing interests to negotiate at the time. Also if I may, it would be desirable to use an uppercase "A" when referring to Allah (swt) out of reverence for our Creator.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
Actually it doesnt matter if I use lower case "a" because in arabic there isn't any upper or lower cases (you would know if you knew any arabic).
I read many books of seerah whether it is branded as radical or moderate. The thing is that the word radical was made up to brand any muslim that never compromises his religion, so I guess I am one.
May Allah guide you...
tyenuj 2 years ago
As for upper case/lower case,we're using a language that operates under different linguistic constraints.Like I said, I'd be happy to carry this correspondence in Arabic.You may have missed my previous offer. As for 'radical' the etymology of the word does not lead back to a reference for Muslims, nor does it serve as a synonym. You're simply making things up now in an effort to better suite your own arguments. Islam is for everyone, including simple people like yourself. Allah (swt) knows best.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
Brother/Sister, why are you even wasting your time with someone like 'tyenuj'? It's clear he has a massive intellectual deficiency at play. He doesn't believe in reading! He believes the Quran isn't logical and has a philosophy similar to Jews in which he believes born Muslims are more valuable than converts. He sounds more like an illiterate taqfiri than anything else. He swears and uses foul language! Stop wasting your time with him. You seem to have more important things to do, like reading!
ylook 2 years ago 5
Islam isn't for everyone, it is for people that are ready to remain loyal to it under any condition.
You seem to fail to see the military side of islam, you approach islam like christianity, where you offer the other side of your cheek. Islam isn't like other relgions, it isn't a fashion accessory and requires seriousness.
Also I dont try to make things suite my arguments, if I am wrong I'd be glad to learn my lesson.
tyenuj 2 years ago
Now you're speaking about Christianity, a military approach and loyalty. So much for a consistent stream of thought. I assumed we were talking about Islamic knowledge in general, and not specifics. I hadn't realized you studied 'mathematical logic' for a year now. Judging by your approach to Islam, a year's worth of study makes you a master logician. I concede (not really). I'm done with this argument. And you seem to be ignoring my offer of continuing in Arabic. Why is that? Assalamwualaikum.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
There's no need to continue in arabic. Ok then we can continue talking about islamic knowledge in general, but this has nothing to do with tariq ramadan.
Also knowledge is useless whn you're ready to compromise you're deen in hope of appeasing others. I assume you read books of seerah, hadiths and the quran, And should realise that tariq ramadan is contradicting the teachings of islam.
tyenuj 2 years ago
you are arrogant abi sina
madiovich 2 years ago
do the christians really give the other cheek ??i mean most of the time if not always the instigators are them
madiovich 2 years ago
assalamu alaikum
Please remember that showing off is considered a form of shirk...for Allah SWT does not love those who think of themselves as better than others. Never did the prophet ever conduct himself such way, because one never knows what a person is like in the eyes of Allah.
jaemonxD 1 year ago 3
One last thing as well. I gather from your posts your dislike of books and intellectualism with respect to Islam, but a solid lesson in mantiq would serve you well. Your last post was difficult to grasp due to its logical inconsistencies, especially your last paragraph. I'm not saying you're wrong or right, but even a false statement can conform to basic rules of logic. The Quran is a logical text as was the Prophet (saw) as a man, as understood in the Sunnah.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
Quran is not a logical book, it is the word of allah (swt), and who is to say everything in it is logical, your not supposed to question it, but follow it.
From your posts I assume you are a revert/convert and that you have alot to learn about islam. Islam cannot be compromised with, it is not compatable with the west or the east and islam will conquer the world. My statments are simple just like the teachings of islam.
tyenuj 2 years ago
The Quran constantly asks us to reflect. Allah (swt) is inherently logical; for people to believe they have to be convinced.The Prophet came to us as a mercy and with proof of Allah's (swt) existence.I gather you prefer assumptions over proof. And if I were a convert, what difference would it make? Abu Bakr (ra) was a convert, as were the early Muslims you claim to so admire and replicate. Since when did the Prophet (saw) discriminate against Muslims?You are a simple person. May Allah Guide you.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago 8
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Allah (swt) doesn't have to be logical, you really dont't know what logic is, I studied mathematical logic for a year now.
And sure, no difference between a raised muslim and a revert, its just that alot of reverts have difficulty in understanding for a while, which is to be expected regarding their circumstances.
tyenuj 2 years ago
It's brothers and sisters like you that should worry us all. Individuals and groups that are opposed to knowledge and strict fidelity to the tenants of our deen in favor of your own emotionalisms and prejudices. I would assume your anti-book position extends to institutions such as Al-Azhar and the like. Scary thought.
I'm done. But we can continue this if you'd like. We can also continue this discussion in Arabic, French or Urdu if any of those languages fair better for you. Fi'Iman'Allah.
Avicenna1037 2 years ago
You know, you are the reason why so many Muslims get put off their religion. Are you aware making takfir is a huge sin? Read the hadith by the prophet (pbuh) where he says surely one who calls another disbeleiver, one of them is. Your takfiri ways are repulsive, against the Qu'ran and Sunnah. It would be advisable to study basic premises of fiqh first before making such serious allegations. If you can refute the idea with intellectual evidence, do so, but name calling is childish and desperate
Man4Justice2 3 years ago 3
LOL you retard
YafaiGirl 2 years ago
My brothers and sisters I didn't see here any takfir.
By the way this video is just fitnah, let us muslims not be bad influenced by it.
Let's love our Ummah, let's love Allah swt and His Messenger saws and obey them only with true submission to Allah.
Let's look for knowledge and grow in faith and fear of Allah swt and pray Him to give us strenghth.
When we do not know or do not understand we should ask to true Ulama and learn by them inshaLlah, beware of people who shout out of ignorance
fabbosko 2 years ago
How is this video fitna?Is there something in particular that you don't agree with?
YafaiGirl 2 years ago
The motivation behind educating Muslim women in Europe at far greater rates than men is the same for foreigners of other faiths. The Muslim man is seen as competition most especially because Muslim women once they can not well educated men of the same faith may marry white Westerners.
Gabriella788 3 years ago
Wow! Gabriella! How profound.. I am not Muslim & think women SHOULD be educated, but your noitcing the MOTIVE behind it in Europe is dead on, with the motive I see behind the allowance of White American society to make it easier for the "black" woman to excel easier than her man.. Because he is a threat to the power of "white" males. That started during the slave trade with a process found in the Willie Lynch letter. I do see they are created the same stereotype for both men, Violent Criminal.
WONDAWOMAN 2 years ago
this man should be cloned million times and more and then put in earth to replace some other men lol
shinkhaly 3 years ago 32
@shinkhaly: Replace only "some" men..lol..:-)
sabashsabash 1 year ago
If half of the population gets abused, their work benefitting the abusers, that whole nation centers it efforts wrongly because people cannot trust honest work paying fairly as the major law of the world. Consequently that country stays poor because it fails to work for its own good.
khtervola 3 years ago
I get so sick and tired of so-called fucking "experts" like this total boob! A man who puts on a sports jacket, a serious expression and furrows his brow in earnest in an attempt to sound like his brain is just overflowing with knowledge. BULLSHIT!
He wouldn't know the truth if it hit him smack between the eyes like a two-by-four!
The TRUTH is that the "religious" are demented social retards, that religion encourages crime & abuse. Religions are ALL based on PACKS & Piles of ridiculous LIES!
t4705mb6 3 years ago
what about Quran 4:34 where it says that 'disobedient women' should be beat? does this mean that if a man does not want his wife to study or work, she'd be disobeying him and therefore deserves a beating?
saadaya 3 years ago
you should take a closer look to this verse, there is diffrent possibilities to understand the verb "daraba" in the quran in cases relating to humans it is mostly used as "to calender" or "to coin". Take a closer look to find out, what this verse is about.
translating it as "to beat" is a respectless interpretation, respectless to creation, respectless to the human being.
nanunanai 3 years ago
The prophet forbade the beating of women & never hurt them. In in another verse (2:231) God specifically says NOT to hurt any woman and whoever does that has committed a sin. God also has told us to read and follow the best meaning in the Quran (39:18). There are no contradictions in the Quran.
hafsa26 3 years ago 3
Saadaya, find the defintion of the verb 'daraba' and there are a multitude of meanings. Now check the Quran translation for other verses containing the same arabic word 'daraba' (e.g 4:94) and you will find the same word translated differently. For more in-depth study, read books by Asma Barlas, Amina Wudud and other scholars.
hafsa26 3 years ago
I believe it is their choice as to what they want to believe and act upon...
it should all come down to choice...
haylie1993 3 years ago
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Sounds convincing, but dont let the facts get in the way of a good story!
van Gogh made a film on this topic, and he was murdered for exposing the truth.
Look at Hirsi Ali's experience in the Netherlands also. You cant hide the truth!!
beheadedchristian 4 years ago
takillah, my reply don't show up in order, i'm not sure y
tabuma 4 years ago
6) I take the laws of God, and given the case, and the wisdom, try the best i can do to reach an acceptable position. But with a base. the subject is a matter of law. check the law. we are talking about women in muslims country, not to be mixed with women in non islamic land, where the jugment are not the same.
Takillah 4 years ago
you're right. but we live in a very small world now with the internet and travelling so what effects other women will effect me and my daughters in the future. the map is divided by lines but it's just a picture, in reality u can step over those lines and come knock on my front door if you wanted to and effect me personally. so i think this is something that should concern everybody because as human beings(not just a muslim or a man)u must live together.
tabuma 4 years ago
Sure, it should concern everybody and I admire your determination to stress everyone's rights. However, what's most important is education. Muslim women need to learn their rights under Islam so that they don't just watch men oppress them and non-Muslims have to educate themselves about Islam first if they want to fight these battles: you can't go up to a woman who loves her religion and start insulting that religion because you want to
"free" her.
ElvenInk 3 years ago 4
Its frustrating to watch something grow into something it's not supposed be.You could ask me "how do you know how its supposed to be?" but its extremely obvious that people arent happy doing what they're doing but they keep doing the same thing hoping it will change the world.This is text book insanity.
tabuma 3 years ago
Elvenlnk my comments didn't show up in order
tabuma 3 years ago
feminisim or what ever you want to call it is important in a world where humans belive that they are intelligent beings but still use violence, manipulation and war to take control over things and people to make themselves happier and richer. so i really think we've spent enough time making sure men are taken care of in every society that we have a good idea of what masculanism is!
tabuma 4 years ago
Feminism started because Western women were being oppressed and decided enough was enough and started fighting for their rights. However, over 1400 years ago the Quran asserted the equality and rights of women so Muslim women did not and do not need feminism. All they have to do is pick up their Qurans and say to the so called religious men: "This is what Islam really says." and face them with those things. It's all about education, both women and men need to know the rights Islam talks about.
ElvenInk 3 years ago 6
i've also never heard of 50 women raping a man because he MIGHT have brought dishonor to his family, or worn the wrong clothes at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person, or is this impossible?
tabuma 4 years ago
Sister, take it easy. If i take your arguments, you should know that if men are stronger physically, women are stronger emotionally. So yes, they will be winning in their respective fields. I'm not talking about that! i'm talking about fairness. and who's bring it in! A people can be fooled one time, but not all the time?! who brought those things in the first place after all?
Takillah 4 years ago
lot's of books have been written on this topic(by the bictims themselves!). it didn't just come out of the blue. i know men and women were created differently, but this is 2008. people have learned that using physical strength to get what they want, or to prove something is not right. so what about fairness. it's what i'm talking about aswell
tabuma 4 years ago
they are forced to cover them selves so men don't lose control. it seems to me that men are the second sex (possibly not even an evolved human) if they can't even keep it in thier pants when looking at a woman.i' ve never heard of a woman losing control of herself by seeing a mans face, legs etc. she can still focus on the things she needs to do like i.e. walking down the street to get from a to b.
tabuma 4 years ago
That is not the reason they are to cover, rather because it it asked of them. Either,You are really not understanding anything i'm tellng or you are speaking with emotions, and that is not the way of a discourse.
Takillah 4 years ago
so if it is asked of them then they don't HAVE to do it, right. if that's the case why do i hear women who decide not to cover them selves getting harrassed, spit on and sometimes worse. besides why even bother asking someone to hide thier identity, it's insulting. women shouldn't be scared of thier own community bcos they are women.
tabuma 4 years ago
Because of ignorance. We have to separate talk about Islam itself and what it teaches and oppressive individuals or cultures. Islam says no compulsion in Religion, Islam says that just because your ancestors do something wrong doesn't mean you have to follow blindly. Unfortunately many men and women are not educated about their religion and are unable to fulfill the first command of the Quran "Read!", they don't educate themselves in their own religion and this is the real problem.
ElvenInk 3 years ago 16
@ElvenInk: I agree with your comment. However, its not about "lack of education" all the time; its selfish interest as well - twisting religion to suit your own personal and selfish interests (unfortunate, but true).
sabashsabash 1 year ago 2
@sabashsabash i think that comes down to lack of fear and consciousness of Allah - this is the main problem; people are not afraid that their evil actions will be dealt with eventually.
2006kcl 1 year ago
Forget about feminism! who defines it and according to what? and if you think that the west gives rights to women, you are just caught up in period we live in. We are living in the worst period in the muslim history yoooo! nowaday woman don`t even understand what `aura` is.
Takillah 4 years ago
equal rights, same for women as men!
different, yes (God created us differently) but equally precious and equally enabled for ALL of the rights of life, learning, profession. You fear this? Here's news: the enlightenment has come! Come on out and join us!
evitindy 4 years ago
Enlightenment? pleeeeease if you want to give woman rights, you have to check the men rights first. Then everything's feels in the puzzle. masculanism? If you don't understand that, leave it.
Takillah 4 years ago
wow, you are afraid of feminism???
evitindy 4 years ago
If I take 4/5 of a cake, there is only so much left for you. I'm saying who said where the 4/5 should had went. comprendo?
Takillah 4 years ago
takillah, tell me your thoughts on masculanism and y a cake should only be divided into fifths, and what this has to do with Islam and the way woman in saudi arabia are locked in thier houses with bars on the windows because the law says they can't be without a male by thier side at all times.
tabuma 4 years ago
Saudi arabia is a very bad example for the application of Islam (right of women?) and they do not hold any authority as far as the scholarly community is concerned. After all they are wahabis, and so the seed of extremism. They happen to be ruling the area that makes them special.. About the 'fifth' that was just a parabole and it seems like you do not understand rhetorics very well. If you learn the rights of woman in the methodology of ahl sunnah wa jama'a.
Takillah 4 years ago
2) the right of men is given to them, at the same time as the right of women.
There, you have no one usurping somebody else's right. That which makes a problem cannot make the solution (I mean that's pretty basic). The people who are supporting feminism, in most cases, have an intention of giving women their due rights. That is very beautiful! How do you go about it?
Takillah 4 years ago
3) Nowadays muslims countries are looking very bad because their scholars are not able to rise above the water in which they are in (oppression). THEY are the people who are in need of rights today, NOT women. because when they (scholars) are given their rights, not only women will be given their rights, but others too (and there is a lot). Until then, let us stop supporting oppressive regime who are annihilation indigenous scholars as we speak leaving the way to all kind of extremism.
Takillah 4 years ago
what scholars do u mean? people who find something very important to them will find away to share thier message, and i assume alot of these scholars are men and they are free to leave the country if they feel it's that important to them to spread that message.
tabuma 4 years ago
get over your pride. reclaim your rights and give thanks where it is due... regardless of who was resposible for it.
sade8378 4 years ago
I hate the term "feminism or feminist", why should I label myself a "feminist" in order to prove that I have all the rights I need. Islam gives me all the rights I need, saying that I'm a muslim should be enough to indicate that I have those "rights" that feminisim provides or is associated with...
GirlKosovare 4 years ago
I'm so tired of this "Islam gave me all the rights I need" mantra!! People that keep using this should be honest with themselves..!! Yes Islam gave women rights i dont contest that but you need to admitt that if it were not for the feminist movement we wouldn't as women have the rights that Islam had granted us back to us... WE ALL KNOW that women have been and in some ways still are oppressed in some parts of the muslim world. Get it right...
sade8378 4 years ago 3
Yes, many women are oppressed in, not only some parts of the world, but many parts of the world, I do not deny that, but that is not because there lacks "feminism". It's because their cultural fanaticism does not allow those rights that are granted by Islam to be practiced. Besides "feminism" has become such a factioned theory. Think about feminism and how and where it is tought and you will find that it is often tought as a theory instead of an all-encompassing guide.
Kosovare1999 4 years ago
I'm a muslim girl i digress with u, sorry. It iS bcos of the absence of feminist movement in those parts of the world that inhibit the granting of rights by law for women. This is no mere accident, feminist movement are thwarted and suppressed by 'ulama's' and thier likes. Indeed it is a theory, muslims may shape it to thier own liking but pathriachy must not be tolerated in any case, ever. So says a muslim girl. :)
cinemanerd 4 years ago