Good idea. I read an article some years back in Popular Mechanics where someone was working on a pnumatic or hydraulic version of that idea but it's not in any vehicles I have seen. I also saw where some swedish guys made a vehicle that was biomass powered. The burning biomass powered a stirling engine which charged the batteries for a 20 mile trip. Could be a way to rid the roadways of litter- run out of gas, throw in some plastic bottles and dry roadkill, ready to go. Sounds like Mr. Fusion.
@TheKaos90 thanks..i think! :) but remember.. its not a car at full scale...no heavy engine, no heavy gear gearbox, no flywheel, no heavy exhaust. ect so its gonna be light..but the spring needs to push off something like a brickwall (not practical) .On the video is pushing off my finger. Thought of a few designs such wrapping the spring so it could push off the road. I know lot of people are laughing at the video, but this really is only the start and the toy is just to show it can be done
the spring is relevant when u thing of number of components- ie one compared to a combustion engine which has hundreds of components whiich has a greater chance to break down (ask the AA). However i will take on board u r idea of direct drive 2 the wheel as long as the compress spring is able to do this and allow the wheels 2 coast.
Because it is impossible to change the linear momentum of a closed system from within. You would either have to drive the wheels directly, or rely upon non-linearity or asymmetry of frictional forces between the wheels and the ground.
u said this but ive got a new model which decided to disobey ur comment- the new model has the compressed spring applying brakes to the rear wheels(the wheels acts like a brick wall to push off from). when the spring(which has the front wheels attached to it) is released, it shoots the front wheel forward and there is a small delay to release the brakes at the back which is eventually realeases leading to a catipillar like motion send the whole model 4ward and coast.
Inertia keyword added. The g force will be huge but a line of different springs (like different gears) can be added and compressed at different rates so it starts off with lower speeds - like a first gear spring
use your ratchet idea so the wheels only go forward. also search old time or old timey top. see how they work using a spiral shaft to cause the item to spin and use this idea in the gearing. have the spring push away and twist the spiral shaft which turns the wheels as it pushes.
I don't mean to bust your bubble but the reason this thing shoots off so incredibly fast is because the high spring rate in comparison to the weight of the vehicle. This would be like having a spring 3-5 feet in diameter with extremely thick coils. I hate to say this but I'm rather confident I had this idea by the age of 5, and so did many others. You would definately need a seperate drivetrain if you plan on not having a stationary object. You need to put more thought into this actually working
you may had the idea when you we 5 but i dont think you fully understand what is this is all about.The evolution of cars from bicyle was the wrong way to go eg weight and constantly been driven. I could coast my car and the mpg reads 200 and in normal drive it reads 30 mpg. You need to look up inertia engines that does not need drivetrains. The car should have evolved from a skateboard.
coasting is not propulsion. The propulsion comes from the action/reaction of the sring pushing off something. However, to coast afterwards is very effiecient. I can coast my car to stop at traffic light. On a motorway if i coast on my Vw Boro, The meter on the dash board goes off the scale and records maxium 200 mpg
The whole idea was to point out how bad a design a car is. Nobody has not researched coasting because we live in a world where everything is driven (drive shaft and wheels attached to engine). get rid of the engine and the drive shaft or transmission and then you get a very powerful and efficient car. A spring and skateboard came in to mind
this is just a demonstration. A full scale version would have a something to recompress the spring to fire it off again. (eg a small electric motor with a cam attached to it to compress the spring)
A very large problem is that if you don't want to have to push off another stationary object, the vehicle would need a whole new drivetrain just for the spring, would be very heavy. The only reason I ask if it's a joke is your model is not very descriptive, how do you plan to put the power to the ground? Apologies if my comment came off as an attempt to down talk the idea, theres just alot of questionable material on youtube & this isn't a very detailed model.
Action /Reaction. You are in a shopping trolley. You throw things out. The trolley moves forward i- the reaction. The model is just a first step design and has been already pointed out you need an external wall to push off. An "internal wall" mechanism may need to be designed. The vehicle will coast like a skateboard and not be directly driven. It will get the push off (reaction)when the compressed spring (Action)is released . Have you noticed how quick it accelerated ?
you will need a small amount of energy to compress the spring and apply brakes . But think of all the componts we will get rid off eg radiators, gearbox, axils and water pump, fuel tank, alternator ect ect. The video above crudly demonstrated incredible acceleration from a standing start such as from a traffic light
Yes, and instead you'll have a spring, electric motor, batteries, motor controller, battery charger.
It would be much more efficient to just build an electric vehicle, really. Then you could even steer it, too! And you wouldn't need walls to push off of.
potential energy is regained by compressing the spring with one revolution of a motor with a cam (not much enery required). Almost 100 % of this enery is turned to Kinetic energy when it pushes off the "internal brick wall". With no drive shafts connected and the vehcile coasting , it is able to travel a good distance with one release of the spring. Look at the video above and imagine the distance travelled if it was scaled up.
So instead of driving your car with wheels powered by an electric motor, you're going to use an electric motor to compress a spring which will do something [you haven't explained this 'brick wall' of yours yet] and then coast?
If you had done the math for this at any point, you would see that powering the car directly from the motor is much more efficient, and doesn't require any springs or magical brick walls.
Tell me how you believe that this "internal brick wall" will work.
compressing a spring is a lot more efficient than trying to drive the wheel directly. For example, it would be continously powered by the motor. But you would only need to power the motor to compress the spring at long intervals as one burst from decompression will send the vehicle a long way. The internal brick wall will be mounted on wheels through a slot in the vehicle. As the brakes are applied it acts as a brick wall. The brakes are released and it rolls with the vehicle.
you can drive the wheel and coast - But no electric cars (or any car) has been designed to do this. Any way, it will require a clutch or a rachet bearing at the very least to do this- all extra component(and weight) which could fail. My idea is to minimise components, costs and failure. Just imagine the spring needs a brick wall to push off and somehow you
need to bring the brick wall with you. You would put wheels at the base. But now you cant push off it -so now you apply the brakes.
I was thinking of six wheels but you have given me an idea to achieve this with 4 wheels. What you said above is correct. but when the vehicle stops at a traffic light , there must be a system to draw the rear wheels (with the"brick" wall) forward and lock next to the the compressed spring. Again the motor is not always used to compress the spring and i would disagree it is not efficient. It may also compress several springs at once so you can fire them in sequence or when reqiured.
I understand about needing a external brick wall. However if you throw something out from shopping trolley, the reaction of the shopping trolley is to coast forward . Thats what i hope to do by repeatedly compressing and realeasing the spring mechanically (the video unfortunatly does not show this yet)
If you're not going to push against the ground, you'd have to throw mass out the back, like a rocket's exhaust. Rockets are terribly inefficient for car-speed travel.
i am thinking in line of an "internal brick wall on wheels " to push off (iebrick wall with brakes applied). After the push off, the brakes are released allowing the brick wall to travel with the vehicle .
not at all. The motor industry would have us believe coasting is bad and dangerous. In fact it is super efficient . But you need a "Push Off" before coasting. I thought about an inertia engine but this will not make the wheels turn (see inertia engine). This spring does. Notice the acceleration to size is very fast. It is able to climb steep slops.The next step is to make a larger model with a electric motor and a cam. The cam will compress and release the spring and brakes.
Good idea. I read an article some years back in Popular Mechanics where someone was working on a pnumatic or hydraulic version of that idea but it's not in any vehicles I have seen. I also saw where some swedish guys made a vehicle that was biomass powered. The burning biomass powered a stirling engine which charged the batteries for a 20 mile trip. Could be a way to rid the roadways of litter- run out of gas, throw in some plastic bottles and dry roadkill, ready to go. Sounds like Mr. Fusion.
rubbernecker13 6 months ago
@rubbernecker13 Thx.. I really will take this idea forward.
kamalmichael 6 months ago
you have a good point but do some math : spring force to total mass ratio , now redo the math for a 2,000 lbs car
TheKaos90 1 year ago
@TheKaos90 thanks..i think! :) but remember.. its not a car at full scale...no heavy engine, no heavy gear gearbox, no flywheel, no heavy exhaust. ect so its gonna be light..but the spring needs to push off something like a brickwall (not practical) .On the video is pushing off my finger. Thought of a few designs such wrapping the spring so it could push off the road. I know lot of people are laughing at the video, but this really is only the start and the toy is just to show it can be done
kamalmichael 1 year ago
the spring is relevant when u thing of number of components- ie one compared to a combustion engine which has hundreds of components whiich has a greater chance to break down (ask the AA). However i will take on board u r idea of direct drive 2 the wheel as long as the compress spring is able to do this and allow the wheels 2 coast.
kamalmichael 2 years ago
how so unworkable?
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Because it is impossible to change the linear momentum of a closed system from within. You would either have to drive the wheels directly, or rely upon non-linearity or asymmetry of frictional forces between the wheels and the ground.
flowerbower 2 years ago
u said this but ive got a new model which decided to disobey ur comment- the new model has the compressed spring applying brakes to the rear wheels(the wheels acts like a brick wall to push off from). when the spring(which has the front wheels attached to it) is released, it shoots the front wheel forward and there is a small delay to release the brakes at the back which is eventually realeases leading to a catipillar like motion send the whole model 4ward and coast.
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Inertia keyword added. The g force will be huge but a line of different springs (like different gears) can be added and compressed at different rates so it starts off with lower speeds - like a first gear spring
kamalmichael 3 years ago
use your ratchet idea so the wheels only go forward. also search old time or old timey top. see how they work using a spiral shaft to cause the item to spin and use this idea in the gearing. have the spring push away and twist the spiral shaft which turns the wheels as it pushes.
smartstuff2buy 3 years ago
I don't mean to bust your bubble but the reason this thing shoots off so incredibly fast is because the high spring rate in comparison to the weight of the vehicle. This would be like having a spring 3-5 feet in diameter with extremely thick coils. I hate to say this but I'm rather confident I had this idea by the age of 5, and so did many others. You would definately need a seperate drivetrain if you plan on not having a stationary object. You need to put more thought into this actually working
autoenthusiast24 3 years ago
you may had the idea when you we 5 but i dont think you fully understand what is this is all about.The evolution of cars from bicyle was the wrong way to go eg weight and constantly been driven. I could coast my car and the mpg reads 200 and in normal drive it reads 30 mpg. You need to look up inertia engines that does not need drivetrains. The car should have evolved from a skateboard.
kamalmichael 3 years ago
Cars do coast sometimes. It just doesn't work as well since they have to stop for traffic.
Coasting is not a method of propulsion.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
coasting is not propulsion. The propulsion comes from the action/reaction of the sring pushing off something. However, to coast afterwards is very effiecient. I can coast my car to stop at traffic light. On a motorway if i coast on my Vw Boro, The meter on the dash board goes off the scale and records maxium 200 mpg
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Yeah... But what does coasting, skateboards, and bicycles have to do with this spring you've built?
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
The whole idea was to point out how bad a design a car is. Nobody has not researched coasting because we live in a world where everything is driven (drive shaft and wheels attached to engine). get rid of the engine and the drive shaft or transmission and then you get a very powerful and efficient car. A spring and skateboard came in to mind
kamalmichael 2 years ago
You're putting in no power and getting none out.
It's not efficient, and you have to add the energy back in continually.
I think you'll find that it just doesn't work.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
look at the video above. it works. it moves.
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Then it stops, because it has no internal power source.
I'm not sure I see the point.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
this is just a demonstration. A full scale version would have a something to recompress the spring to fire it off again. (eg a small electric motor with a cam attached to it to compress the spring)
kamalmichael 2 years ago
A very large problem is that if you don't want to have to push off another stationary object, the vehicle would need a whole new drivetrain just for the spring, would be very heavy. The only reason I ask if it's a joke is your model is not very descriptive, how do you plan to put the power to the ground? Apologies if my comment came off as an attempt to down talk the idea, theres just alot of questionable material on youtube & this isn't a very detailed model.
autoenthusiast24 3 years ago
Action /Reaction. You are in a shopping trolley. You throw things out. The trolley moves forward i- the reaction. The model is just a first step design and has been already pointed out you need an external wall to push off. An "internal wall" mechanism may need to be designed. The vehicle will coast like a skateboard and not be directly driven. It will get the push off (reaction)when the compressed spring (Action)is released . Have you noticed how quick it accelerated ?
kamalmichael 3 years ago
So your idea is to not put a power system in the vehicle?
What will happen if you need to stop at a stop light and then start again?
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
you will need a small amount of energy to compress the spring and apply brakes . But think of all the componts we will get rid off eg radiators, gearbox, axils and water pump, fuel tank, alternator ect ect. The video above crudly demonstrated incredible acceleration from a standing start such as from a traffic light
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Yes, and instead you'll have a spring, electric motor, batteries, motor controller, battery charger.
It would be much more efficient to just build an electric vehicle, really. Then you could even steer it, too! And you wouldn't need walls to push off of.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
No. This will have far fewer components and will be more reliable than an electric car. Also the spring can be compress manually ie human power
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Springs have a much lower energy density than electric batteries.
For the same size or weight of device, even a lead-acid battery and electric motor could drive farther than a spring.
And pushing off of walls is silly, that means you dump everything into kinetic energy right away and have no potential left for actual driving.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
potential energy is regained by compressing the spring with one revolution of a motor with a cam (not much enery required). Almost 100 % of this enery is turned to Kinetic energy when it pushes off the "internal brick wall". With no drive shafts connected and the vehcile coasting , it is able to travel a good distance with one release of the spring. Look at the video above and imagine the distance travelled if it was scaled up.
kamalmichael 2 years ago
So instead of driving your car with wheels powered by an electric motor, you're going to use an electric motor to compress a spring which will do something [you haven't explained this 'brick wall' of yours yet] and then coast?
If you had done the math for this at any point, you would see that powering the car directly from the motor is much more efficient, and doesn't require any springs or magical brick walls.
Tell me how you believe that this "internal brick wall" will work.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
compressing a spring is a lot more efficient than trying to drive the wheel directly. For example, it would be continously powered by the motor. But you would only need to power the motor to compress the spring at long intervals as one burst from decompression will send the vehicle a long way. The internal brick wall will be mounted on wheels through a slot in the vehicle. As the brakes are applied it acts as a brick wall. The brakes are released and it rolls with the vehicle.
kamalmichael 2 years ago
You can also use an electric motor to drive the wheels up to speed, and then coast.
The spring add weight and size, and you don't get all the energy out that you put in. It's less efficient than using a regular transmission.
Assuming that your brick wall works at all. You should make a video to explain it, I didn't understand the description you gave.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
you can drive the wheel and coast - But no electric cars (or any car) has been designed to do this. Any way, it will require a clutch or a rachet bearing at the very least to do this- all extra component(and weight) which could fail. My idea is to minimise components, costs and failure. Just imagine the spring needs a brick wall to push off and somehow you
need to bring the brick wall with you. You would put wheels at the base. But now you cant push off it -so now you apply the brakes.
kamalmichael 2 years ago
So you're going to have two sets of wheels, and accelerate by locking the rear ones, pushing off, and then unlocking them?
You need to run more experiments, I don't think there's any way that would be more efficient than just driving the wheels.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
I was thinking of six wheels but you have given me an idea to achieve this with 4 wheels. What you said above is correct. but when the vehicle stops at a traffic light , there must be a system to draw the rear wheels (with the"brick" wall) forward and lock next to the the compressed spring. Again the motor is not always used to compress the spring and i would disagree it is not efficient. It may also compress several springs at once so you can fire them in sequence or when reqiured.
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Have a look at the Jean Louis Naudin site
jlnlabsDOTorg
He has done simular tests with springs, etc...
Try to work from his results, cause there is
a solution for it.
Also have a look at what the Russians already do with their electromagnetic hammer devices.
Is also here on youtube.
Regards, Stefan.
overunitydotcom 3 years ago
Thanks - i will do this
kamalmichael 3 years ago
The car´s spring compressed rod
pushes versus your finger and then goes forward.
There is no fiinger to push from when you
are yourself in a real car...You could only start this way, if the rod pushes against a wall behind your car...
overunitydotcom 3 years ago
I understand about needing a external brick wall. However if you throw something out from shopping trolley, the reaction of the shopping trolley is to coast forward . Thats what i hope to do by repeatedly compressing and realeasing the spring mechanically (the video unfortunatly does not show this yet)
kamalmichael 3 years ago
If you're not going to push against the ground, you'd have to throw mass out the back, like a rocket's exhaust. Rockets are terribly inefficient for car-speed travel.
cyborgtroy 2 years ago
i am thinking in line of an "internal brick wall on wheels " to push off (iebrick wall with brakes applied). After the push off, the brakes are released allowing the brick wall to travel with the vehicle .
kamalmichael 2 years ago
Is this a joke?
autoenthusiast24 3 years ago
not at all. The motor industry would have us believe coasting is bad and dangerous. In fact it is super efficient . But you need a "Push Off" before coasting. I thought about an inertia engine but this will not make the wheels turn (see inertia engine). This spring does. Notice the acceleration to size is very fast. It is able to climb steep slops.The next step is to make a larger model with a electric motor and a cam. The cam will compress and release the spring and brakes.
kamalmichael 3 years ago