Quakerman...at least I did my part in correcting ur erroneous statements about the Buddha's teaching. Whether u choose to repeat that erroneous statement is not my responsibility.
Quakerman, u commit the same common errors as those who do not know Buddhism in these videos. The goal NEVER was to eliminate ALL desire. It is to recognize & abandon unwholesome desire & cultivate wholesome ones. Please learn about things before commenting.
We are born with the inherent attribute of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam ate both equally. Man is not totally evil or good but he is entirely powerless because he is flesh. All flesh is powerless to sin.But not all sin is evil in the same degree. Christ came to make us alive, true but alive unto what.? To be new creations born from above with complete new virtue neither good nor bad but of Spirit life Virtue. Amen.
There is no "Good" nor "Evil" except for in the minds of men.
This man is WRONG in saying that the Buddha said, "desire is the source of suffering."
The correct statement is that IGNORANCE is the source of suffering.
This man is uneducated in Buddhism and if he debated "desire" with monks, then those monks either were unlearned in the sutras or they did not understand him.
@abangean - Friend, the 2nd Truth - "Desire/Craving which leads to renewed existence" IS NOT a general indictment of DESIRE itself. This type of Desire specifically has to do with attachment for things which r impermanent - whether it is the Self, the Other, or some pleasurable Object.
The root cause of this Desire is IGNORANCE ie: not knowing/seeing the impermanent nature of such things.
Only learned students of Buddha Dharma can elucidate the teachings of 4 Truths with absolute clarity.
@abangean - Nobody can teach clearly the 4 Noble Truths in 4 simple sentences such as presented in Wikipedia, Temples, or Books. Indeed, volumes have been written on the matter which explains the meanings of the 4 Noble Truths.
Ravi Z. is certainly ignorant of the profundity of the teachings & shows it clearly by saying such ludicrous things. If Desire in general caused suffering, then ridding urself of it would also rid urself of the desire to attain enlightenment...which is clearly absurd.
@matreyia Very astute. Watching RZ, Michael Ramsden, John Lennox and william lane craig, I have become better able to spot self-defeating statements. 'Everything is relative except this statement.' 'There are some things man cannot know.' and, my fav 'God does not exist ... and He is evil.' But here you imply that Buddism is self-refuting. Amazing. Do I summarize correctly - 'If the goal is to eliminate all desire, then the elimination of all desire removes even this very goal'
@abangean - so in short, Desire in general is not the problem, rather it is the attachment to things which fade away which is the cause of suffering. Be careful to see that being unattached to things is in no way being unappreciative of them. The teaching is this: Enjoy the things you love, but when they fade away, let them go and accept their fading. Enjoy ur life while u live, but when u fade away, accept it and let go. Thus suffering will be curbed.
@abangean - For was there ever anyone who could take one copper penny with him to the afterlife?
Ignorance of the temporary unreal nature of material things causes desire & attachment to them. When the body dies or the material things decay - suffering inevitably follows those who are still flooded with attachment and desire for them.
Why? Because their desire is for themselves or the objects to "renew their existence."
Why did the Dalai Lama desire the liberation of Tibet? How can you subjectively decipher a desire and a feeling. We feel bad for children in Africa, one day i hope to raise enough money to go help them. Are you fucking kidding me..... Why the fuck do you desire being an apologist and spreading the word you dipshit, because you want to... YES ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE BITCH!
How did this get to unicorns, but in history in accordance, warriors did place horns on horses as a form of intimidation. Such as genghis khan who placed horns on horses but in all honesty your diagnostics seem rather antagonistic. I don't know what you believe in but you seem to have grown an anathema on the Bible itself, what ever you believe man. I pray/hope you are in peace but your attitude against someone's faith ... seems a little scary to be honest. Without bringing any true evidence
Neither, just born to be. The Bible is just fairy tales everyone, come join the real world, where unicorns and sacrificial magic are a thing not of the past but that never existed to begin with.
@stevenweir7 The unicorn is an extinct animal that was observed in various eastern and middle-eastern civilizations. No it wasn't the glittery, winged animal depicted in child storybooks of today, but yes it did exist. I suggest you do some research before you invoke ad hominem attacks on people/things you don't understand, my friend.
@ESneed7 - What in the fuck are you talking about? No one pictures a unicorn with wings, that's a pegasus from Greek mythology, unicorn's were supposedly horses with magical horns who were stronger than God. My attacks aren't ad hominem, they are attacks on the utterly immoral and false teachings of religions. Don't be a troll and actually have a conversation, you might learn something.
@stevenweir76 Give me physical evidence of your great grandparents or else I'll state them as myth. Physical evidence for the historical unicorn, as I previously stated, is in the historical records of the eastern civilizations. As far as me learning something, I have been intensely studying the bible and related subjects for almost 4 years now, so don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about and quote, "trolling".
@ESneed7 - Do you even make sense to yourself? Which historical records mention unicorns, please cite them. I'm certain you're well versed in the Bible given your 4 intense years of self-indoctrination, but do me a favor, before you kill someone for the glory of your phoney baloney God can you at least think about whether or not anything you think is true actually is true. Do society a favor and keep the crazy to yourself.
@stevenweir76 Again with the ad hominem, this whole time I've been able to carry on a conversation without insulting you or a group of people. Sources? The ancient Greek writer, Ctesias wrote pretty detailed accounts of the historical unicorn. Pliney the Roman writer talks about the "Indian ass", and mentions the animal as having a single horn on its head.
So "keeping the crazy" came from historical accounts. Your refusal to accept that is your choice and one of ignorance.
@ESneed7 - Historians say Ctesias never saw a unicorn but heard tales of them. Hearsay evidence, and like the courts of Western civilization I do not accept such notably unreliable anecdotal evidence. Like the Bible, a steaming pile of non-contemporary anecdotal evidence, explain to me now how the Earth is a round disc resting on pillars, you nut job. The Bible is myth and legend and tale, but one thing it isn't is impervious to political subterfuge and divinely inspired. Don't be gullible.
@anonazero - Tell me why I should choose the Bible over the Bhagavad Gita which predates the Bible by 2500 years and therefor must be closer to the source. How about I just say you're all full of crap because the stories are too incredible to believe and have no evidence which can be substantiated and people are prone to believing stupid things without knowing why they believe it. Like you, if I told you a person came back from the dead would you believe it, no, then why believe a book?
@stevenweir76 when something is written doesn't determine whether or not it is true. the bible is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses in the lifetime of other eyewitnesses that claim to be divine rather than human in origin. oh, and they're perfectly cohesive on every level.
the Bhagavad Gita doesn't have a shred of credibility next to the bible because of a thing called manuscript evidence.
@anonazero - What eyewitnesses are you talking about. Most of the stories in the Bible have anonymous authorship. They are not cohesive, you're an idiot if you think the Bible is cohesive, there are so many contradictions that only someone who had never read the Bible would make such a ludicrous statement. It isn't just minor contradictions either but many are aspects of the main story which are contradictory.
@anonazero - You don't know why you believe what you do, you just don't question it. When you actually think about why you believe what you do, then you'll become an atheist, because at the root of all miraculous religious claims lies hearsay and anecdote, and people like to tell fish stories. Did you hear the one about the messiah who fed 5000 people with only five fish? Those fish must've been huge.
@anonazero - You said a fool only would believe something without scruntinizing it, so tell me how you know the Bible is true. To show you the extent of your delusion, tell me when Nazareth came to exist as a town, if you are honest you will see that the only evidence for Nazareth occurs, are you ready for this? After the time of Jesus. Nazareth didn't even exist when Jesus supposedly lived. It is a misinterpretation of Nazarene. You see, I actually learn history, you just think you know.
@anonazero - After you figure out Jesus is a lie, then you might figure out that all the stories told about any God are a lie because they are all self-contradictory. Atheism is the only rational position, believing in miracles without proof is delusion. Plain and simple.
@stevenweir76 most historical scholars (who aren't christian, BTW) would say that you're either uneducated or a fool if you think Jesus of Nazareth is a myth.
@anonazero - I'm not making outlandish claims and can provide no evidence, no believing is not foolish, it is skepticism, and in this case, well-deserved skepticism, you talk about eyewitnesses to Jesus, name one you can prove.
@stevenweir76 The sources for Pilate's life are the four canonical gospels, the works of Philo and Josephus, a brief mention by Tacitus, and an inscription known as the Pilate Stone, which confirms his historicity and establishes his title as prefect. Based on these sources, it appears that Pilate was an equestrian of the Pontii family, and succeeded Valerius Gratus as prefect of Judaea in AD 26.
@anonazero - What do you consider evidence form Pontius Pilate in regards to the historicity of Jesus? Philo was about 6 years old and says nothing of significance, and Tacitus is non-contemporary and could say as much about Jesus as I could say about JFK, being born in 1976 I was closer to JFK than Tacitus was to the alleged Jesus which if you were honest you would realize can not be located in history. Justin Martyr recognized the issue in his dialogue with Trypho, Chap. VIII
@anonazero - While you're dredging up another Christian fallacy, why don't you have a peek around google to see if you can find evidence for when Nazareth can be found in history?
@stevenweir76 dude, google tacitus, josephus, and philo. there's no such thing as a christian fallacy, you might want to google the rules of logic while you're at it.
@anonazero - Tacitus is non-contemporary and his writings were 80 years after the alleged Christ, he mentions only a Christos which the Christians believe and his work is only preserved by Christian sources which have no basis in history and were subject to bias, because Josephus is non-contemporary and writes in a manner which is flattering to Jesus (odd for a Jew who rejects Jesus) and is a highly contestable source for various anachronisms, it appears to most scholars as a forgery.
@anonazero I just read your profile and I find it completely fascinating that you would quote Mark Twain, it's a great quote. But it is a quote coming from the lips of a skeptic atheist, and known critic of the church. But Twain is right, it is easy to tell the truth. If you keep doing so, you're going to be an atheist soon.
@stevenweir76 why do you find it fascinating? unlike most people claiming to be atheists i dont write someone off as a source of wisdom just because we disagree on important things. furthermore, mark twain wasn't an atheist.
@anonazero - Philo would be a good source if he actually said anything about Jesus, which he didn't. But what is interesting about Philo, is that much of the myth was built upon his ideas. I will send you a link to a website and you must realize the difference in the writings of Philo and the teachings in the Bible. They are similar yet distinctly different. It is also interesting that Origen makes no comments on Josephus despite a desire for determining a historicity for Jesus.
@anonazero - So like all religions the closer you get to the top where the experts are, and the closer you get to history the less certainty there is in comments about historicity of Jesus, miracles become dilute and fuzzy as there is nothing to verify them let alone a person named Jesus Christ, there is not one citation outside of the Bible. And Moses and Abraham are far more difficult than Jesus as Moses appears fabricated as there is no evidence of the exodus.
@stevenweir76 if you were half as educated as you are snooty you'd know how ridiculous your claims were.
the eyewitnesses of reference weren't the secular historians mentioned. the impact of Jesus Christ resonated through the ancient world and left behind tens of thousands of manuscripts. no other ancient document has anything close to the credibility of scripture. you can go read first century manuscripts right now.
@anonazero - As for Mark Twain, prove to me that he was a believer. I know for a fact that he respected some members of the clergy but he held disdain for religion in general. You may have a point but most of his quotes lend themselves to disbelief, and disbelievers are what atheists are.
@anonazero - One more thing, I will concede that many teachings in the Bible are good and moral teachings, but many are bad immoral teachings. Jesus, even as depicted in the Bible is not perfect, and like every other human being should be taken with a grain of salt even if he did exist, which I still doubt.
@anonazero - Read Matthew 10:34 and tell me if these sound like the words that you were taught Jesus would say, it isn't exactly "Turn the other cheek" In fact it is quite the opposite.
@stevenweir76 thats just false and you'd know that if you read the rest of the chapter. He's talking about the divisive nature of His command to treasure Him above all else.
secondly, Jesus is not a pacifist. read revelations or about when he kicked the money con men out of the temple if you want to argue that.
@anonazero - Also, I might believe your anecdote about telling others to love him above all else (like that's a good thing???) but he said he is to set father against son, mother against daughter. He would tear apart families to have them love him. He sounds like a typical cult leader to me.
@stevenweir76 What exactly is perfection, then? Clearly you've done your research, and i applaud you for that, but i would like to understand why you feel the need to argue with people about these things, when clearly no consensus will be made between either party.
@checaroo - And I don't believe in scripture because of these immoral, inconsistent and scientifically untenable arguments, but strange I should have the words from the Bible to prove you wrong. Maybe you should actually read it, hard to remain a believer when you see just the kind of absurdities it expects you to believe. Perfection is the dream of the fool. As for consensus, it can be found amongst the honest, so I guess all I need is someone who isn't lying for Jesus to teach them rationality
@checaroo - All I want is for people to think instead of running on automatic. If people were actually thoughtful I think the world would be a better place.
@anonazero - You aren't even stopping to think about what I am saying with the way you are answering my questions. I understand you've been raised to believe these things at all cost, what I'm asking is how do you know they are true?
@checaroo i just have a hard time letting lies go unchecked so i try to at least make sure the truth is known when possible. perfection is to be without flaw. thats as simply as i can put it.
@anonazero - And I still want to know where you find Nazareth beginning to exist, it isn't in any Jewish records which were very accurate for towns during the time. And yes, it is important. While you may believe faith is virtuous, I do not. The reason being that faith, not needing justification in fact or history is corruptible and is usually corrupted, as I think you're going to see more and more if you continue our discussion.
@stevenweir76 nazareth was a podunk town in the middle of nowhere. that isn't faith, i know that because a reliable collection of historical documents attest to that fact.
you've already disqualified yourself from being able to participate in this discussion with any credibility the moment you try to push the idea that Jesus never existed. thats just ridiculous and tens of thousands of reliable historical documents stand as evidence to contradict your claims (which BTW that are in the minority)
@anonazero - I'm not looking for copies of Bible manuscripts. There are copies of copies of copies, what I am interested in is anything that can verify the stories that are all non-contemporary. Do you even understand what I am saying or what my charges are against your beliefs? Because you aren't really answering them.
@stevenweir76 of course you don't want manuscripts because when you see a long line of new testament manuscripts stretching from the first century on up all being virtually identical as well as in different languages which are also virtually identical in content your case against the historicity of scripture is destroyed.
you want the bible to be fake because if its true then those men who gladly gave their lives for Christ had to have a real reason to do so but history says you're wrong.
@anonazero - Copying a book does not verify its veracity, I need corroborating evidence. If I presented you with Lord of the Rings and told you it was fact would you believe it? No, and Lord of the Rings is a far more coherent story than the Bible. The reason I desire evidence outside of the Bible is to prove it is true. I don't want the Bible to be fake, I want to know the truth, and as such the Bible appears false for reasons I have given you. Verify it is true, that's all I ask.
@stevenweir76 you say that you want to validate the veracity of the bible but you dont want to look at the TENS OF THOUSANDS of manuscripts of documents written by eyewitnesses in the lifetime of other eyewitnesses when you have ZERO logical reasons to explain the existence of these stories (which are by the way written containing names, places, and dates in great detail)?
the bible is the very definition of corroborating evidence. 100% cohesive, accurate, and reliable.
@stevenweir76 2 peter 116 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[b] 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
@anonazero - Plenty of people die for what they believe, it doesn't make what they believe to be true. If the Bible is true, I want to know it, but so far as I have seen I have no good reason to believe it. For if I am to dedicate my life to something there must be evidence to prove it is true, or else I would be wasting my time which is my life, and that is precisely what I believe Christians do. You were taught it was true, but you don't really know why. I want the why, I want details.
@stevenweir76 for your information i wasn't raised in biblical christianity. much of what i learned as a kid consisted of what i would later come to know as cult practices.
i have learned that the bible is true, reliable, and perfect in ways we can't even understand because i wanted it to be false, cared about the truth, and discovered that it is the Word of God, the anvil that your (and every other) false god shatters upon.
dont be a lemming. think and read. look up gary habermas.
@anonazero - Following the crowd is what lemmings do. I'm not exactly following that crowd now am I? You do know that in the pantheon of Gods that Yahweh was a war god according to modern scholarship, right? You do know that he was consolidated as one god from many under a warmongering king, right. You do know that these are just stories like any religion right? You do know that you're brainwashed right? Seriously, provide proof of anything you say, don't keep spouting more crap.
@anonazero - IN other words, tell me why you logically think Jesus existed when he was supposedly God on Earth and not one extra-Biblical source can verify it? If the sun went dark around the world as the scriptures say, why does no astronomer record it? If the world should have ended as was predicted in the Bible why didn't it? Why is it that Rome in the 4th century had the authority to decide what was gospel and what should be discarded? Don't answer my charges, just throw another hissy fit.
@anonazero - Why are there two accounts of Genesis? Why is there no archaeological evidence for the Exodus? If God had visited Earth why didn't anyone mark the occasion anywhere on Earth? If Jesus was real, why can't you just prove it? Another thing, you can change the topic as much as you want, if you aren't answering questions you should start altering your belief in the face of your cognitive dissonance, not maintain belief at all cost, else how will you ever learn the truth?
@stevenweir76 1. there aren't two accounts in genesis. im sure you've asked someone that before and they've told you the same thing before but you failed to remember because you dont care about the truth.
2. one is the big picture, the next is zoomed in to include great detail. same story different perspectives.
3. chariots said to be at the bottom of the red sea argue otherwise
4. people have Jesus and crosses everywhere.
5. you need to look up the definition of proof. you keep using it wrong.
@anonazero - You're not answering my questions, you're simply stating more bullshit. 1/2. The details on Genesis are different, meaning there are 2 different accounts. When you zoom in as it were, facts should not change, such as the order of events or how they happened. Even if it were only one account it would be absurd to believe it, but two different accounts is obvious folklore. 3. What chariot at the bottom of the Red sea? Is it dated? Do you have references and scientific data?
@stevenweir76 i just GAVE you answers. you just dont WANT those answers because they sink your boat. the facts dont change. its as if you don't get how the world from 10000 miles away looks completely different, and yet is the same, as when you're on the ground level watching people go about their business.
thats the main problem with you guys claiming contradictions. you think that a different perspective is a contradiction when that simply isn't the case. any lawyer will tell you that.
@anonazero - I'm not looking for answers, I'm looking for citations to prove what you say is true, evidence, not conjecture. If you know these things tell us how you know them. Sophistry and convolution will achieve nothing with me, or anyone else with a brain. When one account of Genesis says the animals came first, the other doesn't, one says Eve was made from Adam's rib, one says she was made as Adam at the same time. When you summarize you don't screw up details, you generalize.
@stevenweir76 secondly, i dont give two craps about proving scientifically the exodus happened to someone who honestly doesn't care. you don't want to deal with the historical documentation of scripture, thats why you focus on things that are more obscure and difficult to find evidence for. nevermind the thousands of archaeological digs that say otherwise and all the places/things that have been found in the middle east BECAUSE of the bible's accurate descriptions.
@anonazero - And there we have, you don't care about proof because that would mean you would have to actually show us all how you know what you know and not require people to believe false assertions on faith alone. Tell me what you consider historical in scripture because outside of the Bible it's like Jesus wasn't there, and many he would have come in contact with him there would be art or literature. We don't even know what Jesus would have looked like.
@stevenweir76 thats not what josephus and tacitus say. well, them and the rest of human history that was turned upside down by Jesus Christ. i guess someone just made up the millions of christians that willingly died for Jesus?
riiiiight. here's what you do. you ask for evidence, i point at human history, and the you say "that doesnt count". well what kind of evidence do you want?
i'm about done with this, you obviously have a personal agenda and dont care about reason or logical thought.
@anonazero - Josephus and Tacitus say nothing of Jesus and are non-contemporary. Please cite your evidence, tell me how you know. You want to know how I know evolution is true. I could cite a plethora of evidence, I could show you sources that would bury you for the rest of your life in paper. I fully accept logical thought, you are not providing evidence of any kind to support your position.
@anonazero - People willing to die for something does not prove its veracity. How many wars are fought where bith sides believed God was on their side, how many other religions have people who prove their faith through martyrdom. I never said people weren't willing to die for Jesus, it was quite a useful tool for a ruthless warmongering leader. It doesn't count because then you would have to credit every martyr, every faithful person of every faith.
@stevenweir76 furthermore, if you want to actually see what it looks like to make wild claims with zero evidence look no further than the book of mormon. NOTHING is validated in its pages and there is A TON of historical evidence to contradict its wild unsubstantiated claims. you want to treat the bible like that but keep running into the fact that there are reasonable explanations for everything in scripture that you write off as "luck". thats just ridiculously naive.
@anonazero - I did look at the book of Mormon and you are correct. But what of the Bible when it claims Nebuchadnezzar would fall or the world would end. You seem to ignore these evidence, and the fact that we can directly disprove Mormonism bears nothing on Christianity, just as you can't then discredit the latest prophet of Abraham's God Mohammad. What then? We actually know Mohammad existed. I don't believe that either, their claims are also absurd.
@anonazero - 4. People have Buddhas and statues of Vishnu everywhere, just not where you grew up. It proves nothing other than beliefs, which are as frequent as there are humans. 5. Tell me your definition of proof. I like the dictionary meaning: sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of a proposition. So what do you have that proves Jesus is true, and the Bible is true and that God exists?
@stevenweir76 4. i never said that was proof and you didn't ask for that. you asked for something indicating that God came down. now you change the question after the answer? typical.
5. my definition of proof is found in the dictionary. thats why i use the word evidence. there's no such thing as historical proof, there is only evidence. proof has to do with mathematics and science which has no bearing on the evidentiary method used in the exploration of history.
@anonazero - I want evidence man. You are making all these claims and calling them true, then cough it up, give me the irrefutable. If you have a video of a man killing someone and you have 7 witnesses and you have his fingerprints on the gun, then guess what, I think you've proved to anyone's satisfaction that he murdered someone. Now what if there is no evidence, which is precisely the problem we have. There certainly isn't proof for Jesus, but there isn't even reason to believe he existed.
@anonazero - I am not blind though it is no hill but a mountain of ignorance which I must destroy. I have to fight against institutions whose only desire is to prove they are the right one regardless of reality. If Jesus was not sent to unite us, then he is to divide us, is this the act of your God? Give your head a shake and tell me why such a being who wishes to divide humanity should deserve worship?
@anonazero - Have you figured out that what you believe is a lie and that it isn't too late to mend your ways and join humanity in the quest for peace and prosperity for all. Every angle you look at Christianity it is wrong. To have another suffer for your indiscretions is immoral, or maybe you like it when the wrong person goes to prison, often the victim who is scared silent by the real perpetrator. You like that? You stole some money so Jesus should get nailed, you like that?
The first lie you were told is that you were evil and despicable for actions you didn't commit, you're just like the sucker who ended up in prison for the crimes of others. Or do you see that Genesis is just a tribal story that worked for illiterate sheep herders but not for modern thinkers with tools at their disposal to separate fact from fiction. Once you see it, it completely unravels and your mind breathes for the first time. Reality is glorious in its simplicity.
@anonazero - Do you see the universe, with billions of light years of beauty to enthrall and capture your imagination and let you revel in your one life, or do you still have the pipe dream of immortality to placate and stifle your thoughts. You should come over here, the world looks a lot different and a lot better from my view.
@anonazero - I don't even have to look up what I think anymore because my thoughts are congruent with reality. If I don't know I have a simple time, I say I don't know, imagine that, sometimes not having an answer. Or if I find out I am wrong I change my opinion, the struggle is gone, my pride no longer stands in the way of my experience. Oh, what wonders the universe holds for those who dispel illusions and delusions of antiquity.
@anonazero - and following that I do not want others to waste their lives believing religious dogma which only serves to divide humanity. I want peace on Earth, and as long as people fight and die for things which can't be proved to everyone that is always going to happen. This religion has had 2000 years and not yet unified humanity. In fact the religion has now fractured into over 30000 factions, all believing they are the one stream that trickled from the true source. Impossible.
@stevenweir76 first of all christ never said he came to unite the planet. in fact he claimed just the opposite. secondly, atheism has produce the bloodiest century in all of human history. you're very arrogant and naive if you think atheism is the answer to our problems.
@anonazero - Pardon me, atheism produced the bloodiest century, aside from the fact that it bears nothing on the nature of reality, tell me why you'd believe something so absurd.
@anonazero - What are you saying, you have evidence outside of the Bible for the supposed walking miracle man whom absolutely no person anywhere has mentioned, drawn, written about at any time during his supposed lifetime. Do you know how to separate myth from reality? Please show me the evidence you are so certain of. If the only reason you have to believe is out of fear, then perhaps you should ask why you are being manipulated, hint: follow the money and power.
@anonazero - Reality offers no trace of God, There is no evidence of God or even your myths, and history does not have your Jesus, not anywhere until the gospels, you rely on the gospels, with anonymous authorship, no traceability, nothing. And the latter gospels all appear to be based on the first one, and the claims become more ludicrous in each iteration at the later dates. Why no witness to walking dead, no writing of a healed leaper or blind man. Why is there nothing to vindicate Jesus?
@anonazero - One last thing, the answer to the ills of humanity are to actually stop, think and then act. Not pretend you know what is best for everyone without and in spite of evidence. Religion cures nothing, except the problem where you think you are worthless and miserable, a lie taught to subdue you. You will never be free to think as long as you believe a God is waiting to punish you.
@anonazero - I already know that your God is a man-made concept that plays in the minds of believers as a simulacrum.
Religion = A socially acceptable delusion. Think about it, do you protest other religions so, or is it just important that others believe the absurd as well to make you more comfortable in your gilded mind cage. If others believe stupid things for no reason then you should too, to the tune of 2 billion Christians amongst over 30000 splinter factions with differing beliefs.
@stevenweir76 i don't protest any religion, even yours.
i proclaim the truth of the good news of Jesus Christ. i'm a begger telling other beggers where to find food. you'll either listen or die form starvation. the choice is yours.
@anonazero - As for telling people that Jesus Christ is good news. First you'll have to convince them that they, like all human beings according to Christianity are worthless and miserable. We all die, nothing is going to change that, it is nature. I don't believe any myths, do you understand evidence at all? Your mind is so clouded that you can't even look at the evidence, or your fear is so great that you have to deny it in your mind. Either way, our conversation is over. Good luck.
@anonazero - PS. I don't have a religion, that's what the A in atheist stands for, it's a prefix meaning without. ie. Without God. You don't have to pay for the truth and the truth doesn't sell itself. I suggest you actually learn scholarship of the Bible. Although loss of faith often needs to be the first step in a painful way, perhaps you can beat the odds and let logic tear down your belief system, take control of your life.
@stevenweir76 you worship self. you want control. the reality, though, is that you're a slave to sin and death but you don't realize it. you think you're drinking this sweet nectar but what you don't realize is its antifreeze.
@anonazero - Try to grasp this, I don't worship anything. I don't believe in magic miracles. I don't think I'm going to live forever. It may be bittersweet, but it is real, and this is far better than never having anything. What else do you need? When fear subsides you will lose your imaginary friend, then you can start to look at people for what they are, are their voices getting louder in your mind. You are not alone, but there is no fascist cosmic overlord, just other humans like us.
@stevenweir76 sure you do. you think the universe created itself or came from nothing without cause contrary to every law of physics on the books. you believe this blindly and without reason. sure, you say "well, i haven't seen any evidence" but billions of people say they have. the christian makes a single claim: God is real, i've had an encounter with Him citing experiential evidence at LEAST.
you cite ignorance as if its evidence and then act like we're the fools. nope.
@anonazero - If I were to think the universe came from nothing, which I don't, I don't know where the universe came from, it wouldn't imply that I believed in myself being a God, I KNOW that I have no supernatural powers, I KNOW I am not omniscient. My benevolence extends only to the limits of my patience. As for what all Christians have experienced or believe, I don't think you are in a position to talk.
@anonazero - What claims do I make about what other people believe? Part of the problem here is that the confidence religion gives is the assumption that all Christians believe as you do, while the reality is that even within your own denomination there will be disparity. Your response is inappropriately sarcastic given that I have raised a valid point.
@stevenweir76 PFFFT inappropriately sarcastic? you take yourself FAR too seriously buddy.
if you knew what made a person a christian you would know why what you claim about christians being divided is in such error.
a christian is made such by the hand of God creating in them a new nature freely given to all that would just put down their guns, repent, and believe on Christ.
people don't become christians. people are MADE christians by God. feel free to read Ezekiel 36:25-27 on that promise.
@anonazero - Oh wait, you think I am taking this all very lightly, no I think the future of our species and the nature which sustains us hinges upon the abandonment of myths which are destroying our planet. If Christians would put down their guns, then why do so many professed Christians have guns, establish laws to protect themselves and fear secularism which is only law meant to protect everyone? I know what makes a person Christian, denial. I was one once, remember?
@stevenweir76 people who claimed they were Christians who later left the faith, is because they never were a Christian... a real genuine Christian will hold on his/her faith because it's not him/her keeping the faith for himself/herself. It is God Himself who keeps them for Himself as His people... so those who left were actually never become one.
@blueicemint22 - There's no true Scotsman fallacy. Look at you, speaking for everyone, including the ex-Christian who perhaps had to reconcile the suicide of their loved and seeing them burn in hell for eternity or escape from their mental cage by the reality that there is either no hell or no merciful God. Then you lay claim that of the 30000 factions of Christianity you are the true one. You got a lot to prove, you need to ask yourself if you have so much faith, but more importantly, why?
@stevenweir76 - If Ezekiel 36:25-27 is true, then why is your heart so hardened? Why do you think that without Jesus we are all just evil and miserable. The Bible self-refutes again.
@anonazero - Having said what you just did, do you realize that for me to convert to Christianity that all it would take is for your omnipotent God to speak up. As for anecdotal evidence, it doesn't suffice, but what I want to know is why you think that God requires faith, belief and glory, what are the needs of a God? It sounds suspiciously human in the nature of God's desire, to me it is obviously a concept born in the minds of men. Men created gods, not the other way around.
@leftwingersareweak - That's easy, there are over 10000 god concepts that are and have been worshiped, at best only one can be right, therefor men created gods.
@leftwingersareweak - What makes you think I'm a HS student? Is it the fact that I still study history and ideas and haven't allowed my mind to become stagnant believing things which aren't true and instead choosing to continue to learn. And it was easy BTW, even the term atheist was coined when it referred to disbelief in Zeus, before Yahweh was a big player.
@anonazero - I'd also like you to stop and tell me what I have said contrary to physics, but before you do that, why don't you explain the origin of God.
You don't realize it, but by saying God did it, you haven't answered anything, first of all you don't know God did it because you can't prove that. Step one - Prove God exists. If you can't do that with 100% certainty then please acknowledge so, unless you think God will punish you for telling the truth.
@anonazero - Or maybe you really wish to relinquish control and allow another to steer your life. But then you have to ask yourself, why live at all if only for the glory of another. I choose to bolster the glory of knowledge, the grandeur of human principles that allow us to see and do more than we ever have. What's wrong with that? The Russians have just launched a telescope with 1000 times the resolution of Hubble, and the rest of the world isn't going to stop.
@leftwingersareweak - I don't define religion as what I don't believe. The words "I" and "religion" usually have a word like loathe, despise, detest, hate, abhor, undermine, disbelieve, subvert, or something along those lines in between them. :) It isn't cute, BTW, your monotheistic God for example according to modern scholarship was construed under a tyrant kind in the time of second Isaiah. Yahweh for example, is one of a pantheon of gods during that time.
@leftwingersareweak - I might be younger than you, but I recognize the slander in your tone, as well as the fact that your only argument is to resort to attacking my experience. I am 35, I have worked as an electronics technician and chemical technician, and now I am a mechanic and electrician. You know what works in those trades, I'll give you a hint, it isn't prayer or magic that makes the world work. Bring your 'A' game partner, you've bitten off more than you can chew.
@stevenweir76 Oooooh...so impressive indeed. So intimidating as well. El-oh-el. Your intellect is truly dizzying. Can you tell me where you believe that I "slandered" you? Funny thing is that somehow you apparently believe that the points you have brought up are original or have never been thought of before. That is indeed amusing. You certainly do have a "religion"...as does everyone.
@leftwingersareweak - Do my points need to be original to be true, is that one of the tenets of your logic, deny it once and it is never true. It's not that I think my arguments are all original, in fact I'm sure they have all been thought of before, that's because religion is so stupid that most children can pick up on it. I do not have a religion, as nice as it compartmentalizes me for you. I do not worship anything.
@stevenweir76 My religion says that I should be able to kill 35 year old technicians because they are bad. You like that one? Do you have a problem with it?
@leftwingersareweak - No, I said I don't like religions, are you really that thick? I don't like that one and you're an asshole for saying it. If you really believed in a benign creator with Jesus as his messenger then you would turn the other cheek, but you, like every confronted Christian, resorts to base insults and schoolyard tactics when faced with defeat. I'm not surprised, a Christian is a person who can't think for themselves, they keep asking their preacher what to think.
@leftwingersareweak - Do you want to stay this stupid for the rest of life, scared stupid by a fear of hell, and smiling uncomfortably the whole time? It's your life, but what a waste of a brain.
@stevenweir76 Interesting that you think I have fear of hell. I'm not motivated by fear. But apparently you don't have the capacity to think logically and rationally. What a waste of a brain. Sorry you are such a fool. BTW, you never answered my question. If I can define what is morally right by myself, why can't I take your life? What has moral authority to pass judgment on that act?
@leftwingersareweak - You could take my life, but there may be repercussions for you, and what purpose would it serve other than to make you paranoid and guilty (perhaps)? People do take lives, but usually it is an act of desperation, uncontrollable rage, fear or following orders. If you have morality it would certainly be difficult for you. If you were a psychopath however, it might not trouble you in the slightest. If it were condoned by your society, you'd be rewarded. It's all relative.
@stevenweir76 Oh brilliant one, I'm simply asking on what basis it would be wrong for me in my religion to kill you? Don't make this complex for your simple mind. Just answer the question. I'm talking cold blooded murder. Don't worry about my morality, or lack thereof. Just what makes it wrong to kill you?
@leftwingersareweak - Nothing makes it inherently wrong to kill, we choose to because it benefits society in terms of our own safety. People have different reasons for killing, your only reason for not killing is apparently your religion as your life and the lives of others appear to have no value to you without the context of religion. But you tell me, have you seen any atheist terrorists strapping bombs to themselves or unloading assault weapons into crowds?
@stevenweir76 "But you tell me, have you seen any atheist terrorists strapping bombs to themselves or unloading assault weapons into crowds?" No, just atheists sending millions to gas chambers and The Gulag. That's much more efficient. Do you even think before you type? "Nothing makes it inherently wrong to kill"? Seriously? If I kill you in cold blood that is okay? Please provide your address then. Thanks in advance. LOL.
@stevenweir76 Why would I feel "guilty" if my religion or values system says it's okay to kill a 35 year old "technician"? On what basis should I feel any guilt?
@leftwingersareweak - To ask a question like "why can't I take your life", makes me think you don't really stop and think before you speak, not because of repercussions or morality, but just basic ability to reason. If someone threatened you or your family and you had to choose between death of you and your family or killing that person, as a witness I would feel you were justified. If you hack your baby's arms off because God told you to (true story) and your baby died you'd be locked away.
@stevenweir76 Did you fear your parents? I realize that you didn't worship them, but was/is fear what motivates you? By the way, atheists are freeloaders on a U.S. political/economic system build and maintained due to Christian values/beliefs. Can you name one single country that thrives and is primarily made up of atheists?
@leftwingersareweak - Japan, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Hungary, France, Czech Republic are primarily atheist countries. And let me guess, you'd look an atheist German right in the eye and call him a lazy freeloader? Why do you keep proving yourself to be an idiot, you should keep your mouth shut so people won't know how stupid you are.
@stevenweir76 Japan is atheist? Wrong. Norway, Germany, Hungary, France, Czech Republic all have Christian underpinnings from their history. You should know that, but apparently missed high school history. As for your immense intellect, at least I know the difference between the use of "your" and "you're". I learned that in junior high. But perhaps you never got that far in school.
@leftwingersareweak - And my country, Canada, is about 35% atheist or no religion, and we owe about 15000 per citizen as a factor of our debt, lazy, stupid Americans owe 3 times as much per person. And I work as a mechanic and electrician, I am raising a beautiful daughter with my wife and people say my daughter is bright and enthusiastic. Call me a freeloader, I am a part of the working class that actually builds things, not some fat American financial speculator. Those are the freeloaders.
@stevenweir76 Your country has been able to live off the defense budget of the United States taxpayer too. Congratulations for being a freeloader...just as you are a freeloader with respect to the country that has been formed on the basis of Christian values/beliefs. According to the 2001 census, 77.1% of your citizens identify themselves as Christian, so your number doesn't work and is wrong. About 16% describe themselves as having no religion. You know, the freeloaders who are atheists.
@leftwingersareweak - Read my lips, the United States of America was founded on secular values, and if you think otherwise, please read the Treaty of Tripoli. Don't you know your own history dumbass? I'm not worried about Canada, we have a healthy growth rate into atheism/no religion, waiting for the next census numbers are projected to be much higher. Why do you call atheists freeloaders? The two richest Americans are both atheists you nitwit, and not coincidentally also the most philanthropic.
@leftwingersareweak - Is your brain fucked yet? If you were a reasonable person I would have just destroyed about 5 of your prejudiced ignorant arguments, but you'll go around, saying the same tired lies over and over, and actually believing them. Because you're arrogant, that could be forgiven, but coupled with ignorance you are part of the problem your country faces. And just remember, your country was founded on secular values, now that it is descending into religion, your country is fucked.
@stevenweir76 Wrong once again. The U.S. was founded on Christian values. But apparently you didn't learn history in your many years of public schooling. You are really a piece of work...and also apparently very angry. You may want to amp down the rage though. It's bad for your heart and your soul amigo.
@leftwingersareweak - You're entire society is like a drunk man in the gutter, hooked on Jesus and praying for him to fix everything you've fucked up. The United States is a house of cards, and those who are trying to save your country, (those you call left wing) can't even raise taxes on a person who makes 500 times what the average worker does and pays lower interest. And that's because you're all fucking idiots.
@stevenweir76 First, it's "Your entire society....", not "You're entire society...". Now tell me who the idiot is? Second, very few now are "hooked on Jesus". Thus, we have significant problems in society. Again, do you "fear" your parents? Atheists are freeloaders on a U.S. political and economic system build and maintained due to Christian values/beliefs. Can you name a single country that has thrived with mostly atheists as citizens? Still waiting....
@anonazero - Perhaps one day you will face the truth. Many years I wasted believing the myths, and what a waste, religion wasted so much of my potential, believing things which led me nowhere fast.
@leftwingersareweak - Stalin was an atheist, Hitler was a Christian ( Read Mein Kampf you twit) . Who cares? It's mindless drones like you who follow the dogmatic propaganda even when evidence is beating you upside the head. Who the fuck taught you anything, you are seriously ignorant of basic history. Go to school (not home school) and come back when you actually know anything worth saying. You keep opening your mouth and sounding dumber and dumber. Are you actually getting dumber as we speak?
@stevenweir76 Haha. Another fool who thinks that Hitler was a Christian. You really are lacking in knowledge of history dude. Your lack of rational thought processes and logic are stunning. Did you even go to school? Do you even spend time reading? I feel sorry for one who is so full of hate and bitterness. I am scared for your wife and daughter actually because you will self-destruct due to the religion of atheism/nihilism.
Quakerman...at least I did my part in correcting ur erroneous statements about the Buddha's teaching. Whether u choose to repeat that erroneous statement is not my responsibility.
matreyia 2 months ago
Quakerman, u commit the same common errors as those who do not know Buddhism in these videos. The goal NEVER was to eliminate ALL desire. It is to recognize & abandon unwholesome desire & cultivate wholesome ones. Please learn about things before commenting.
matreyia 2 months ago
We are born with the inherent attribute of the knowledge of good and evil. Adam ate both equally. Man is not totally evil or good but he is entirely powerless because he is flesh. All flesh is powerless to sin.But not all sin is evil in the same degree. Christ came to make us alive, true but alive unto what.? To be new creations born from above with complete new virtue neither good nor bad but of Spirit life Virtue. Amen.
polopowers1 2 months ago
There is no "Good" nor "Evil" except for in the minds of men.
This man is WRONG in saying that the Buddha said, "desire is the source of suffering."
The correct statement is that IGNORANCE is the source of suffering.
This man is uneducated in Buddhism and if he debated "desire" with monks, then those monks either were unlearned in the sutras or they did not understand him.
matreyia 4 months ago
@matreyia 4 noble truths.
abangean 4 months ago
@abangean - Friend, the 2nd Truth - "Desire/Craving which leads to renewed existence" IS NOT a general indictment of DESIRE itself. This type of Desire specifically has to do with attachment for things which r impermanent - whether it is the Self, the Other, or some pleasurable Object.
The root cause of this Desire is IGNORANCE ie: not knowing/seeing the impermanent nature of such things.
Only learned students of Buddha Dharma can elucidate the teachings of 4 Truths with absolute clarity.
matreyia 4 months ago
@abangean - Nobody can teach clearly the 4 Noble Truths in 4 simple sentences such as presented in Wikipedia, Temples, or Books. Indeed, volumes have been written on the matter which explains the meanings of the 4 Noble Truths.
Ravi Z. is certainly ignorant of the profundity of the teachings & shows it clearly by saying such ludicrous things. If Desire in general caused suffering, then ridding urself of it would also rid urself of the desire to attain enlightenment...which is clearly absurd.
matreyia 4 months ago
@matreyia Very astute. Watching RZ, Michael Ramsden, John Lennox and william lane craig, I have become better able to spot self-defeating statements. 'Everything is relative except this statement.' 'There are some things man cannot know.' and, my fav 'God does not exist ... and He is evil.' But here you imply that Buddism is self-refuting. Amazing. Do I summarize correctly - 'If the goal is to eliminate all desire, then the elimination of all desire removes even this very goal'
quakerman7 2 months ago
@abangean - so in short, Desire in general is not the problem, rather it is the attachment to things which fade away which is the cause of suffering. Be careful to see that being unattached to things is in no way being unappreciative of them. The teaching is this: Enjoy the things you love, but when they fade away, let them go and accept their fading. Enjoy ur life while u live, but when u fade away, accept it and let go. Thus suffering will be curbed.
matreyia 4 months ago
@abangean - For was there ever anyone who could take one copper penny with him to the afterlife?
Ignorance of the temporary unreal nature of material things causes desire & attachment to them. When the body dies or the material things decay - suffering inevitably follows those who are still flooded with attachment and desire for them.
Why? Because their desire is for themselves or the objects to "renew their existence."
matreyia 4 months ago
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The rising threat is Secularism. The despising of Light. Light is God. Love is God. Light of conscience. Joh 14:6.
Brucev7 5 months ago
Ravi is so poignant.
Brucev7 5 months ago
ty jesus for leading me to this man so that i may know you more
wertguy 6 months ago
Why did the Dalai Lama desire the liberation of Tibet? How can you subjectively decipher a desire and a feeling. We feel bad for children in Africa, one day i hope to raise enough money to go help them. Are you fucking kidding me..... Why the fuck do you desire being an apologist and spreading the word you dipshit, because you want to... YES ITS THAT FUCKING SIMPLE BITCH!
iamdavincity 6 months ago
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MRafh979 6 months ago
How did this get to unicorns, but in history in accordance, warriors did place horns on horses as a form of intimidation. Such as genghis khan who placed horns on horses but in all honesty your diagnostics seem rather antagonistic. I don't know what you believe in but you seem to have grown an anathema on the Bible itself, what ever you believe man. I pray/hope you are in peace but your attitude against someone's faith ... seems a little scary to be honest. Without bringing any true evidence
Inexpugnable007 7 months ago
Neither, just born to be. The Bible is just fairy tales everyone, come join the real world, where unicorns and sacrificial magic are a thing not of the past but that never existed to begin with.
stevenweir76 8 months ago
@stevenweir7 The unicorn is an extinct animal that was observed in various eastern and middle-eastern civilizations. No it wasn't the glittery, winged animal depicted in child storybooks of today, but yes it did exist. I suggest you do some research before you invoke ad hominem attacks on people/things you don't understand, my friend.
ESneed7 8 months ago
@ESneed7 - What in the fuck are you talking about? No one pictures a unicorn with wings, that's a pegasus from Greek mythology, unicorn's were supposedly horses with magical horns who were stronger than God. My attacks aren't ad hominem, they are attacks on the utterly immoral and false teachings of religions. Don't be a troll and actually have a conversation, you might learn something.
stevenweir76 8 months ago
@stevenweir76 Give me physical evidence of your great grandparents or else I'll state them as myth. Physical evidence for the historical unicorn, as I previously stated, is in the historical records of the eastern civilizations. As far as me learning something, I have been intensely studying the bible and related subjects for almost 4 years now, so don't assume I don't know what I'm talking about and quote, "trolling".
ESneed7 8 months ago
@ESneed7 - Do you even make sense to yourself? Which historical records mention unicorns, please cite them. I'm certain you're well versed in the Bible given your 4 intense years of self-indoctrination, but do me a favor, before you kill someone for the glory of your phoney baloney God can you at least think about whether or not anything you think is true actually is true. Do society a favor and keep the crazy to yourself.
stevenweir76 8 months ago
@stevenweir76 Again with the ad hominem, this whole time I've been able to carry on a conversation without insulting you or a group of people. Sources? The ancient Greek writer, Ctesias wrote pretty detailed accounts of the historical unicorn. Pliney the Roman writer talks about the "Indian ass", and mentions the animal as having a single horn on its head.
So "keeping the crazy" came from historical accounts. Your refusal to accept that is your choice and one of ignorance.
ESneed7 8 months ago
@ESneed7 - Historians say Ctesias never saw a unicorn but heard tales of them. Hearsay evidence, and like the courts of Western civilization I do not accept such notably unreliable anecdotal evidence. Like the Bible, a steaming pile of non-contemporary anecdotal evidence, explain to me now how the Earth is a round disc resting on pillars, you nut job. The Bible is myth and legend and tale, but one thing it isn't is impervious to political subterfuge and divinely inspired. Don't be gullible.
stevenweir76 8 months ago
@stevenweir76 you, sir, are the one who is guilty of being gullible. the intelligent rational choice is to believe the bible.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Tell me why I should choose the Bible over the Bhagavad Gita which predates the Bible by 2500 years and therefor must be closer to the source. How about I just say you're all full of crap because the stories are too incredible to believe and have no evidence which can be substantiated and people are prone to believing stupid things without knowing why they believe it. Like you, if I told you a person came back from the dead would you believe it, no, then why believe a book?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 when something is written doesn't determine whether or not it is true. the bible is a reliable collection of historical documents written by eyewitnesses in the lifetime of other eyewitnesses that claim to be divine rather than human in origin. oh, and they're perfectly cohesive on every level.
the Bhagavad Gita doesn't have a shred of credibility next to the bible because of a thing called manuscript evidence.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - What eyewitnesses are you talking about. Most of the stories in the Bible have anonymous authorship. They are not cohesive, you're an idiot if you think the Bible is cohesive, there are so many contradictions that only someone who had never read the Bible would make such a ludicrous statement. It isn't just minor contradictions either but many are aspects of the main story which are contradictory.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
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@anonazero - You don't know why you believe what you do, you just don't question it. When you actually think about why you believe what you do, then you'll become an atheist, because at the root of all miraculous religious claims lies hearsay and anecdote, and people like to tell fish stories. Did you hear the one about the messiah who fed 5000 people with only five fish? Those fish must've been huge.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 thats just not true. only a fool would believe something without scrutinizing it.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - You said a fool only would believe something without scruntinizing it, so tell me how you know the Bible is true. To show you the extent of your delusion, tell me when Nazareth came to exist as a town, if you are honest you will see that the only evidence for Nazareth occurs, are you ready for this? After the time of Jesus. Nazareth didn't even exist when Jesus supposedly lived. It is a misinterpretation of Nazarene. You see, I actually learn history, you just think you know.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - After you figure out Jesus is a lie, then you might figure out that all the stories told about any God are a lie because they are all self-contradictory. Atheism is the only rational position, believing in miracles without proof is delusion. Plain and simple.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 most historical scholars (who aren't christian, BTW) would say that you're either uneducated or a fool if you think Jesus of Nazareth is a myth.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - I'm not making outlandish claims and can provide no evidence, no believing is not foolish, it is skepticism, and in this case, well-deserved skepticism, you talk about eyewitnesses to Jesus, name one you can prove.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 Pontius Pilate
want more?
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - The only thing that could be considered evidence from Pontius Pilate is fiction written by W.P.Crozier. Strike one.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 The sources for Pilate's life are the four canonical gospels, the works of Philo and Josephus, a brief mention by Tacitus, and an inscription known as the Pilate Stone, which confirms his historicity and establishes his title as prefect. Based on these sources, it appears that Pilate was an equestrian of the Pontii family, and succeeded Valerius Gratus as prefect of Judaea in AD 26.
you need to learn your history.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - What do you consider evidence form Pontius Pilate in regards to the historicity of Jesus? Philo was about 6 years old and says nothing of significance, and Tacitus is non-contemporary and could say as much about Jesus as I could say about JFK, being born in 1976 I was closer to JFK than Tacitus was to the alleged Jesus which if you were honest you would realize can not be located in history. Justin Martyr recognized the issue in his dialogue with Trypho, Chap. VIII
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - While you're dredging up another Christian fallacy, why don't you have a peek around google to see if you can find evidence for when Nazareth can be found in history?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 dude, google tacitus, josephus, and philo. there's no such thing as a christian fallacy, you might want to google the rules of logic while you're at it.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Tacitus is non-contemporary and his writings were 80 years after the alleged Christ, he mentions only a Christos which the Christians believe and his work is only preserved by Christian sources which have no basis in history and were subject to bias, because Josephus is non-contemporary and writes in a manner which is flattering to Jesus (odd for a Jew who rejects Jesus) and is a highly contestable source for various anachronisms, it appears to most scholars as a forgery.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero I just read your profile and I find it completely fascinating that you would quote Mark Twain, it's a great quote. But it is a quote coming from the lips of a skeptic atheist, and known critic of the church. But Twain is right, it is easy to tell the truth. If you keep doing so, you're going to be an atheist soon.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 why do you find it fascinating? unlike most people claiming to be atheists i dont write someone off as a source of wisdom just because we disagree on important things. furthermore, mark twain wasn't an atheist.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Philo would be a good source if he actually said anything about Jesus, which he didn't. But what is interesting about Philo, is that much of the myth was built upon his ideas. I will send you a link to a website and you must realize the difference in the writings of Philo and the teachings in the Bible. They are similar yet distinctly different. It is also interesting that Origen makes no comments on Josephus despite a desire for determining a historicity for Jesus.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - So like all religions the closer you get to the top where the experts are, and the closer you get to history the less certainty there is in comments about historicity of Jesus, miracles become dilute and fuzzy as there is nothing to verify them let alone a person named Jesus Christ, there is not one citation outside of the Bible. And Moses and Abraham are far more difficult than Jesus as Moses appears fabricated as there is no evidence of the exodus.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 if you were half as educated as you are snooty you'd know how ridiculous your claims were.
the eyewitnesses of reference weren't the secular historians mentioned. the impact of Jesus Christ resonated through the ancient world and left behind tens of thousands of manuscripts. no other ancient document has anything close to the credibility of scripture. you can go read first century manuscripts right now.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - As for Mark Twain, prove to me that he was a believer. I know for a fact that he respected some members of the clergy but he held disdain for religion in general. You may have a point but most of his quotes lend themselves to disbelief, and disbelievers are what atheists are.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - One more thing, I will concede that many teachings in the Bible are good and moral teachings, but many are bad immoral teachings. Jesus, even as depicted in the Bible is not perfect, and like every other human being should be taken with a grain of salt even if he did exist, which I still doubt.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 LOL not perfect? feel free to back any of that up with scripture.
incedentally Jesus claimed to be God. /story
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Read Matthew 10:34 and tell me if these sound like the words that you were taught Jesus would say, it isn't exactly "Turn the other cheek" In fact it is quite the opposite.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 thats just false and you'd know that if you read the rest of the chapter. He's talking about the divisive nature of His command to treasure Him above all else.
secondly, Jesus is not a pacifist. read revelations or about when he kicked the money con men out of the temple if you want to argue that.
anonazero 7 months ago
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@anonazero - If Jesus wasn't a pacifist why did he say to turn the other cheek?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - Also, I might believe your anecdote about telling others to love him above all else (like that's a good thing???) but he said he is to set father against son, mother against daughter. He would tear apart families to have them love him. He sounds like a typical cult leader to me.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 What exactly is perfection, then? Clearly you've done your research, and i applaud you for that, but i would like to understand why you feel the need to argue with people about these things, when clearly no consensus will be made between either party.
checaroo 7 months ago
@checaroo - And I don't believe in scripture because of these immoral, inconsistent and scientifically untenable arguments, but strange I should have the words from the Bible to prove you wrong. Maybe you should actually read it, hard to remain a believer when you see just the kind of absurdities it expects you to believe. Perfection is the dream of the fool. As for consensus, it can be found amongst the honest, so I guess all I need is someone who isn't lying for Jesus to teach them rationality
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@checaroo - All I want is for people to think instead of running on automatic. If people were actually thoughtful I think the world would be a better place.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 i agree and wish you would do the same.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - You aren't even stopping to think about what I am saying with the way you are answering my questions. I understand you've been raised to believe these things at all cost, what I'm asking is how do you know they are true?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@checaroo i just have a hard time letting lies go unchecked so i try to at least make sure the truth is known when possible. perfection is to be without flaw. thats as simply as i can put it.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero Lies can be dangerous things, so i do not blame you.
checaroo 7 months ago
@anonazero - And I still want to know where you find Nazareth beginning to exist, it isn't in any Jewish records which were very accurate for towns during the time. And yes, it is important. While you may believe faith is virtuous, I do not. The reason being that faith, not needing justification in fact or history is corruptible and is usually corrupted, as I think you're going to see more and more if you continue our discussion.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 nazareth was a podunk town in the middle of nowhere. that isn't faith, i know that because a reliable collection of historical documents attest to that fact.
you've already disqualified yourself from being able to participate in this discussion with any credibility the moment you try to push the idea that Jesus never existed. thats just ridiculous and tens of thousands of reliable historical documents stand as evidence to contradict your claims (which BTW that are in the minority)
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - If there are reliable documents please cite them, I'll be happy to read them.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 many manuscripts are available online. just gogle "bible manuscript" and have fun.
you'll need to brush up on your Koine Greek, though. protip: the P's are actually R's, thats a tricky one.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - I'm not looking for copies of Bible manuscripts. There are copies of copies of copies, what I am interested in is anything that can verify the stories that are all non-contemporary. Do you even understand what I am saying or what my charges are against your beliefs? Because you aren't really answering them.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 of course you don't want manuscripts because when you see a long line of new testament manuscripts stretching from the first century on up all being virtually identical as well as in different languages which are also virtually identical in content your case against the historicity of scripture is destroyed.
you want the bible to be fake because if its true then those men who gladly gave their lives for Christ had to have a real reason to do so but history says you're wrong.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Copying a book does not verify its veracity, I need corroborating evidence. If I presented you with Lord of the Rings and told you it was fact would you believe it? No, and Lord of the Rings is a far more coherent story than the Bible. The reason I desire evidence outside of the Bible is to prove it is true. I don't want the Bible to be fake, I want to know the truth, and as such the Bible appears false for reasons I have given you. Verify it is true, that's all I ask.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 you say that you want to validate the veracity of the bible but you dont want to look at the TENS OF THOUSANDS of manuscripts of documents written by eyewitnesses in the lifetime of other eyewitnesses when you have ZERO logical reasons to explain the existence of these stories (which are by the way written containing names, places, and dates in great detail)?
the bible is the very definition of corroborating evidence. 100% cohesive, accurate, and reliable.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Please cite one eyewitness account. Biblical scholars say there are precisely zero eyewitness accounts.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
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@stevenweir76 2 peter 116 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”[b] 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Plenty of people die for what they believe, it doesn't make what they believe to be true. If the Bible is true, I want to know it, but so far as I have seen I have no good reason to believe it. For if I am to dedicate my life to something there must be evidence to prove it is true, or else I would be wasting my time which is my life, and that is precisely what I believe Christians do. You were taught it was true, but you don't really know why. I want the why, I want details.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 for your information i wasn't raised in biblical christianity. much of what i learned as a kid consisted of what i would later come to know as cult practices.
i have learned that the bible is true, reliable, and perfect in ways we can't even understand because i wanted it to be false, cared about the truth, and discovered that it is the Word of God, the anvil that your (and every other) false god shatters upon.
dont be a lemming. think and read. look up gary habermas.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Following the crowd is what lemmings do. I'm not exactly following that crowd now am I? You do know that in the pantheon of Gods that Yahweh was a war god according to modern scholarship, right? You do know that he was consolidated as one god from many under a warmongering king, right. You do know that these are just stories like any religion right? You do know that you're brainwashed right? Seriously, provide proof of anything you say, don't keep spouting more crap.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - IN other words, tell me why you logically think Jesus existed when he was supposedly God on Earth and not one extra-Biblical source can verify it? If the sun went dark around the world as the scriptures say, why does no astronomer record it? If the world should have ended as was predicted in the Bible why didn't it? Why is it that Rome in the 4th century had the authority to decide what was gospel and what should be discarded? Don't answer my charges, just throw another hissy fit.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - Why are there two accounts of Genesis? Why is there no archaeological evidence for the Exodus? If God had visited Earth why didn't anyone mark the occasion anywhere on Earth? If Jesus was real, why can't you just prove it? Another thing, you can change the topic as much as you want, if you aren't answering questions you should start altering your belief in the face of your cognitive dissonance, not maintain belief at all cost, else how will you ever learn the truth?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 1. there aren't two accounts in genesis. im sure you've asked someone that before and they've told you the same thing before but you failed to remember because you dont care about the truth.
2. one is the big picture, the next is zoomed in to include great detail. same story different perspectives.
3. chariots said to be at the bottom of the red sea argue otherwise
4. people have Jesus and crosses everywhere.
5. you need to look up the definition of proof. you keep using it wrong.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - You're not answering my questions, you're simply stating more bullshit. 1/2. The details on Genesis are different, meaning there are 2 different accounts. When you zoom in as it were, facts should not change, such as the order of events or how they happened. Even if it were only one account it would be absurd to believe it, but two different accounts is obvious folklore. 3. What chariot at the bottom of the Red sea? Is it dated? Do you have references and scientific data?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 i just GAVE you answers. you just dont WANT those answers because they sink your boat. the facts dont change. its as if you don't get how the world from 10000 miles away looks completely different, and yet is the same, as when you're on the ground level watching people go about their business.
thats the main problem with you guys claiming contradictions. you think that a different perspective is a contradiction when that simply isn't the case. any lawyer will tell you that.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - I'm not looking for answers, I'm looking for citations to prove what you say is true, evidence, not conjecture. If you know these things tell us how you know them. Sophistry and convolution will achieve nothing with me, or anyone else with a brain. When one account of Genesis says the animals came first, the other doesn't, one says Eve was made from Adam's rib, one says she was made as Adam at the same time. When you summarize you don't screw up details, you generalize.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 secondly, i dont give two craps about proving scientifically the exodus happened to someone who honestly doesn't care. you don't want to deal with the historical documentation of scripture, thats why you focus on things that are more obscure and difficult to find evidence for. nevermind the thousands of archaeological digs that say otherwise and all the places/things that have been found in the middle east BECAUSE of the bible's accurate descriptions.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - And there we have, you don't care about proof because that would mean you would have to actually show us all how you know what you know and not require people to believe false assertions on faith alone. Tell me what you consider historical in scripture because outside of the Bible it's like Jesus wasn't there, and many he would have come in contact with him there would be art or literature. We don't even know what Jesus would have looked like.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 thats not what josephus and tacitus say. well, them and the rest of human history that was turned upside down by Jesus Christ. i guess someone just made up the millions of christians that willingly died for Jesus?
riiiiight. here's what you do. you ask for evidence, i point at human history, and the you say "that doesnt count". well what kind of evidence do you want?
i'm about done with this, you obviously have a personal agenda and dont care about reason or logical thought.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Josephus and Tacitus say nothing of Jesus and are non-contemporary. Please cite your evidence, tell me how you know. You want to know how I know evolution is true. I could cite a plethora of evidence, I could show you sources that would bury you for the rest of your life in paper. I fully accept logical thought, you are not providing evidence of any kind to support your position.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - People willing to die for something does not prove its veracity. How many wars are fought where bith sides believed God was on their side, how many other religions have people who prove their faith through martyrdom. I never said people weren't willing to die for Jesus, it was quite a useful tool for a ruthless warmongering leader. It doesn't count because then you would have to credit every martyr, every faithful person of every faith.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 furthermore, if you want to actually see what it looks like to make wild claims with zero evidence look no further than the book of mormon. NOTHING is validated in its pages and there is A TON of historical evidence to contradict its wild unsubstantiated claims. you want to treat the bible like that but keep running into the fact that there are reasonable explanations for everything in scripture that you write off as "luck". thats just ridiculously naive.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - I did look at the book of Mormon and you are correct. But what of the Bible when it claims Nebuchadnezzar would fall or the world would end. You seem to ignore these evidence, and the fact that we can directly disprove Mormonism bears nothing on Christianity, just as you can't then discredit the latest prophet of Abraham's God Mohammad. What then? We actually know Mohammad existed. I don't believe that either, their claims are also absurd.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - 4. People have Buddhas and statues of Vishnu everywhere, just not where you grew up. It proves nothing other than beliefs, which are as frequent as there are humans. 5. Tell me your definition of proof. I like the dictionary meaning: sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of a proposition. So what do you have that proves Jesus is true, and the Bible is true and that God exists?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 4. i never said that was proof and you didn't ask for that. you asked for something indicating that God came down. now you change the question after the answer? typical.
5. my definition of proof is found in the dictionary. thats why i use the word evidence. there's no such thing as historical proof, there is only evidence. proof has to do with mathematics and science which has no bearing on the evidentiary method used in the exploration of history.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - I want evidence man. You are making all these claims and calling them true, then cough it up, give me the irrefutable. If you have a video of a man killing someone and you have 7 witnesses and you have his fingerprints on the gun, then guess what, I think you've proved to anyone's satisfaction that he murdered someone. Now what if there is no evidence, which is precisely the problem we have. There certainly isn't proof for Jesus, but there isn't even reason to believe he existed.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 you're a blind man iceskating uphill insisting that the hill isn't there.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - I am not blind though it is no hill but a mountain of ignorance which I must destroy. I have to fight against institutions whose only desire is to prove they are the right one regardless of reality. If Jesus was not sent to unite us, then he is to divide us, is this the act of your God? Give your head a shake and tell me why such a being who wishes to divide humanity should deserve worship?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - Have you figured out that what you believe is a lie and that it isn't too late to mend your ways and join humanity in the quest for peace and prosperity for all. Every angle you look at Christianity it is wrong. To have another suffer for your indiscretions is immoral, or maybe you like it when the wrong person goes to prison, often the victim who is scared silent by the real perpetrator. You like that? You stole some money so Jesus should get nailed, you like that?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
The first lie you were told is that you were evil and despicable for actions you didn't commit, you're just like the sucker who ended up in prison for the crimes of others. Or do you see that Genesis is just a tribal story that worked for illiterate sheep herders but not for modern thinkers with tools at their disposal to separate fact from fiction. Once you see it, it completely unravels and your mind breathes for the first time. Reality is glorious in its simplicity.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - Do you see the universe, with billions of light years of beauty to enthrall and capture your imagination and let you revel in your one life, or do you still have the pipe dream of immortality to placate and stifle your thoughts. You should come over here, the world looks a lot different and a lot better from my view.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - I don't even have to look up what I think anymore because my thoughts are congruent with reality. If I don't know I have a simple time, I say I don't know, imagine that, sometimes not having an answer. Or if I find out I am wrong I change my opinion, the struggle is gone, my pride no longer stands in the way of my experience. Oh, what wonders the universe holds for those who dispel illusions and delusions of antiquity.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - and following that I do not want others to waste their lives believing religious dogma which only serves to divide humanity. I want peace on Earth, and as long as people fight and die for things which can't be proved to everyone that is always going to happen. This religion has had 2000 years and not yet unified humanity. In fact the religion has now fractured into over 30000 factions, all believing they are the one stream that trickled from the true source. Impossible.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 first of all christ never said he came to unite the planet. in fact he claimed just the opposite. secondly, atheism has produce the bloodiest century in all of human history. you're very arrogant and naive if you think atheism is the answer to our problems.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Pardon me, atheism produced the bloodiest century, aside from the fact that it bears nothing on the nature of reality, tell me why you'd believe something so absurd.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 reality. evidence. history.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - What are you saying, you have evidence outside of the Bible for the supposed walking miracle man whom absolutely no person anywhere has mentioned, drawn, written about at any time during his supposed lifetime. Do you know how to separate myth from reality? Please show me the evidence you are so certain of. If the only reason you have to believe is out of fear, then perhaps you should ask why you are being manipulated, hint: follow the money and power.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - Reality offers no trace of God, There is no evidence of God or even your myths, and history does not have your Jesus, not anywhere until the gospels, you rely on the gospels, with anonymous authorship, no traceability, nothing. And the latter gospels all appear to be based on the first one, and the claims become more ludicrous in each iteration at the later dates. Why no witness to walking dead, no writing of a healed leaper or blind man. Why is there nothing to vindicate Jesus?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - One last thing, the answer to the ills of humanity are to actually stop, think and then act. Not pretend you know what is best for everyone without and in spite of evidence. Religion cures nothing, except the problem where you think you are worthless and miserable, a lie taught to subdue you. You will never be free to think as long as you believe a God is waiting to punish you.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 one day you'll have to face the truth.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - I already know that your God is a man-made concept that plays in the minds of believers as a simulacrum.
Religion = A socially acceptable delusion. Think about it, do you protest other religions so, or is it just important that others believe the absurd as well to make you more comfortable in your gilded mind cage. If others believe stupid things for no reason then you should too, to the tune of 2 billion Christians amongst over 30000 splinter factions with differing beliefs.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 i don't protest any religion, even yours.
i proclaim the truth of the good news of Jesus Christ. i'm a begger telling other beggers where to find food. you'll either listen or die form starvation. the choice is yours.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - As for telling people that Jesus Christ is good news. First you'll have to convince them that they, like all human beings according to Christianity are worthless and miserable. We all die, nothing is going to change that, it is nature. I don't believe any myths, do you understand evidence at all? Your mind is so clouded that you can't even look at the evidence, or your fear is so great that you have to deny it in your mind. Either way, our conversation is over. Good luck.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 i recommend you actually learn something of christianity before you continue.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - PS. I don't have a religion, that's what the A in atheist stands for, it's a prefix meaning without. ie. Without God. You don't have to pay for the truth and the truth doesn't sell itself. I suggest you actually learn scholarship of the Bible. Although loss of faith often needs to be the first step in a painful way, perhaps you can beat the odds and let logic tear down your belief system, take control of your life.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 you worship self. you want control. the reality, though, is that you're a slave to sin and death but you don't realize it. you think you're drinking this sweet nectar but what you don't realize is its antifreeze.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Try to grasp this, I don't worship anything. I don't believe in magic miracles. I don't think I'm going to live forever. It may be bittersweet, but it is real, and this is far better than never having anything. What else do you need? When fear subsides you will lose your imaginary friend, then you can start to look at people for what they are, are their voices getting louder in your mind. You are not alone, but there is no fascist cosmic overlord, just other humans like us.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 sure you do. you think the universe created itself or came from nothing without cause contrary to every law of physics on the books. you believe this blindly and without reason. sure, you say "well, i haven't seen any evidence" but billions of people say they have. the christian makes a single claim: God is real, i've had an encounter with Him citing experiential evidence at LEAST.
you cite ignorance as if its evidence and then act like we're the fools. nope.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - If I were to think the universe came from nothing, which I don't, I don't know where the universe came from, it wouldn't imply that I believed in myself being a God, I KNOW that I have no supernatural powers, I KNOW I am not omniscient. My benevolence extends only to the limits of my patience. As for what all Christians have experienced or believe, I don't think you are in a position to talk.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 "I don't think you are in a position to talk."
you're at least half right.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - What claims do I make about what other people believe? Part of the problem here is that the confidence religion gives is the assumption that all Christians believe as you do, while the reality is that even within your own denomination there will be disparity. Your response is inappropriately sarcastic given that I have raised a valid point.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 PFFFT inappropriately sarcastic? you take yourself FAR too seriously buddy.
if you knew what made a person a christian you would know why what you claim about christians being divided is in such error.
a christian is made such by the hand of God creating in them a new nature freely given to all that would just put down their guns, repent, and believe on Christ.
people don't become christians. people are MADE christians by God. feel free to read Ezekiel 36:25-27 on that promise.
anonazero 7 months ago
@anonazero - Oh wait, you think I am taking this all very lightly, no I think the future of our species and the nature which sustains us hinges upon the abandonment of myths which are destroying our planet. If Christians would put down their guns, then why do so many professed Christians have guns, establish laws to protect themselves and fear secularism which is only law meant to protect everyone? I know what makes a person Christian, denial. I was one once, remember?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 people who claimed they were Christians who later left the faith, is because they never were a Christian... a real genuine Christian will hold on his/her faith because it's not him/her keeping the faith for himself/herself. It is God Himself who keeps them for Himself as His people... so those who left were actually never become one.
blueicemint22 7 months ago
@blueicemint22 - There's no true Scotsman fallacy. Look at you, speaking for everyone, including the ex-Christian who perhaps had to reconcile the suicide of their loved and seeing them burn in hell for eternity or escape from their mental cage by the reality that there is either no hell or no merciful God. Then you lay claim that of the 30000 factions of Christianity you are the true one. You got a lot to prove, you need to ask yourself if you have so much faith, but more importantly, why?
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 - If Ezekiel 36:25-27 is true, then why is your heart so hardened? Why do you think that without Jesus we are all just evil and miserable. The Bible self-refutes again.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - Having said what you just did, do you realize that for me to convert to Christianity that all it would take is for your omnipotent God to speak up. As for anecdotal evidence, it doesn't suffice, but what I want to know is why you think that God requires faith, belief and glory, what are the needs of a God? It sounds suspiciously human in the nature of God's desire, to me it is obviously a concept born in the minds of men. Men created gods, not the other way around.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 "Men created gods, not the other way around." Prove it then (just playing your game).
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - That's easy, there are over 10000 god concepts that are and have been worshiped, at best only one can be right, therefor men created gods.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Oh how cute. "That's easy" says the high school student. "God concepts". Uh-huh.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - What makes you think I'm a HS student? Is it the fact that I still study history and ideas and haven't allowed my mind to become stagnant believing things which aren't true and instead choosing to continue to learn. And it was easy BTW, even the term atheist was coined when it referred to disbelief in Zeus, before Yahweh was a big player.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@anonazero - I'd also like you to stop and tell me what I have said contrary to physics, but before you do that, why don't you explain the origin of God.
You don't realize it, but by saying God did it, you haven't answered anything, first of all you don't know God did it because you can't prove that. Step one - Prove God exists. If you can't do that with 100% certainty then please acknowledge so, unless you think God will punish you for telling the truth.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@anonazero - Or maybe you really wish to relinquish control and allow another to steer your life. But then you have to ask yourself, why live at all if only for the glory of another. I choose to bolster the glory of knowledge, the grandeur of human principles that allow us to see and do more than we ever have. What's wrong with that? The Russians have just launched a telescope with 1000 times the resolution of Hubble, and the rest of the world isn't going to stop.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 Everyone has a "religion". But it is amusing that you define your religion in terms of what you don't believe.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - I don't define religion as what I don't believe. The words "I" and "religion" usually have a word like loathe, despise, detest, hate, abhor, undermine, disbelieve, subvert, or something along those lines in between them. :) It isn't cute, BTW, your monotheistic God for example according to modern scholarship was construed under a tyrant kind in the time of second Isaiah. Yahweh for example, is one of a pantheon of gods during that time.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - I might be younger than you, but I recognize the slander in your tone, as well as the fact that your only argument is to resort to attacking my experience. I am 35, I have worked as an electronics technician and chemical technician, and now I am a mechanic and electrician. You know what works in those trades, I'll give you a hint, it isn't prayer or magic that makes the world work. Bring your 'A' game partner, you've bitten off more than you can chew.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Oooooh...so impressive indeed. So intimidating as well. El-oh-el. Your intellect is truly dizzying. Can you tell me where you believe that I "slandered" you? Funny thing is that somehow you apparently believe that the points you have brought up are original or have never been thought of before. That is indeed amusing. You certainly do have a "religion"...as does everyone.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - Do my points need to be original to be true, is that one of the tenets of your logic, deny it once and it is never true. It's not that I think my arguments are all original, in fact I'm sure they have all been thought of before, that's because religion is so stupid that most children can pick up on it. I do not have a religion, as nice as it compartmentalizes me for you. I do not worship anything.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 My religion says that I should be able to kill 35 year old technicians because they are bad. You like that one? Do you have a problem with it?
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - No, I said I don't like religions, are you really that thick? I don't like that one and you're an asshole for saying it. If you really believed in a benign creator with Jesus as his messenger then you would turn the other cheek, but you, like every confronted Christian, resorts to base insults and schoolyard tactics when faced with defeat. I'm not surprised, a Christian is a person who can't think for themselves, they keep asking their preacher what to think.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - You're an idiot, an asshole and a clown, and those aren't insults. They're objective observations.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - Do you want to stay this stupid for the rest of life, scared stupid by a fear of hell, and smiling uncomfortably the whole time? It's your life, but what a waste of a brain.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Interesting that you think I have fear of hell. I'm not motivated by fear. But apparently you don't have the capacity to think logically and rationally. What a waste of a brain. Sorry you are such a fool. BTW, you never answered my question. If I can define what is morally right by myself, why can't I take your life? What has moral authority to pass judgment on that act?
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - You could take my life, but there may be repercussions for you, and what purpose would it serve other than to make you paranoid and guilty (perhaps)? People do take lives, but usually it is an act of desperation, uncontrollable rage, fear or following orders. If you have morality it would certainly be difficult for you. If you were a psychopath however, it might not trouble you in the slightest. If it were condoned by your society, you'd be rewarded. It's all relative.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Oh brilliant one, I'm simply asking on what basis it would be wrong for me in my religion to kill you? Don't make this complex for your simple mind. Just answer the question. I'm talking cold blooded murder. Don't worry about my morality, or lack thereof. Just what makes it wrong to kill you?
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - Nothing makes it inherently wrong to kill, we choose to because it benefits society in terms of our own safety. People have different reasons for killing, your only reason for not killing is apparently your religion as your life and the lives of others appear to have no value to you without the context of religion. But you tell me, have you seen any atheist terrorists strapping bombs to themselves or unloading assault weapons into crowds?
stevenweir76 6 months ago
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@stevenweir76 "But you tell me, have you seen any atheist terrorists strapping bombs to themselves or unloading assault weapons into crowds?" No, just atheists sending millions to gas chambers and The Gulag. That's much more efficient. Do you even think before you type? "Nothing makes it inherently wrong to kill"? Seriously? If I kill you in cold blood that is okay? Please provide your address then. Thanks in advance. LOL.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Why would I feel "guilty" if my religion or values system says it's okay to kill a 35 year old "technician"? On what basis should I feel any guilt?
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - To ask a question like "why can't I take your life", makes me think you don't really stop and think before you speak, not because of repercussions or morality, but just basic ability to reason. If someone threatened you or your family and you had to choose between death of you and your family or killing that person, as a witness I would feel you were justified. If you hack your baby's arms off because God told you to (true story) and your baby died you'd be locked away.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - If fear does not motivate you to worship, what does, eternal reward for simply believing the unbelievable?
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Did you fear your parents? I realize that you didn't worship them, but was/is fear what motivates you? By the way, atheists are freeloaders on a U.S. political/economic system build and maintained due to Christian values/beliefs. Can you name one single country that thrives and is primarily made up of atheists?
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - Japan, Sweden, Norway, Germany, Hungary, France, Czech Republic are primarily atheist countries. And let me guess, you'd look an atheist German right in the eye and call him a lazy freeloader? Why do you keep proving yourself to be an idiot, you should keep your mouth shut so people won't know how stupid you are.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Japan is atheist? Wrong. Norway, Germany, Hungary, France, Czech Republic all have Christian underpinnings from their history. You should know that, but apparently missed high school history. As for your immense intellect, at least I know the difference between the use of "your" and "you're". I learned that in junior high. But perhaps you never got that far in school.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - And my country, Canada, is about 35% atheist or no religion, and we owe about 15000 per citizen as a factor of our debt, lazy, stupid Americans owe 3 times as much per person. And I work as a mechanic and electrician, I am raising a beautiful daughter with my wife and people say my daughter is bright and enthusiastic. Call me a freeloader, I am a part of the working class that actually builds things, not some fat American financial speculator. Those are the freeloaders.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Your country has been able to live off the defense budget of the United States taxpayer too. Congratulations for being a freeloader...just as you are a freeloader with respect to the country that has been formed on the basis of Christian values/beliefs. According to the 2001 census, 77.1% of your citizens identify themselves as Christian, so your number doesn't work and is wrong. About 16% describe themselves as having no religion. You know, the freeloaders who are atheists.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - Read my lips, the United States of America was founded on secular values, and if you think otherwise, please read the Treaty of Tripoli. Don't you know your own history dumbass? I'm not worried about Canada, we have a healthy growth rate into atheism/no religion, waiting for the next census numbers are projected to be much higher. Why do you call atheists freeloaders? The two richest Americans are both atheists you nitwit, and not coincidentally also the most philanthropic.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - Is your brain fucked yet? If you were a reasonable person I would have just destroyed about 5 of your prejudiced ignorant arguments, but you'll go around, saying the same tired lies over and over, and actually believing them. Because you're arrogant, that could be forgiven, but coupled with ignorance you are part of the problem your country faces. And just remember, your country was founded on secular values, now that it is descending into religion, your country is fucked.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Wrong once again. The U.S. was founded on Christian values. But apparently you didn't learn history in your many years of public schooling. You are really a piece of work...and also apparently very angry. You may want to amp down the rage though. It's bad for your heart and your soul amigo.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - You're entire society is like a drunk man in the gutter, hooked on Jesus and praying for him to fix everything you've fucked up. The United States is a house of cards, and those who are trying to save your country, (those you call left wing) can't even raise taxes on a person who makes 500 times what the average worker does and pays lower interest. And that's because you're all fucking idiots.
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 First, it's "Your entire society....", not "You're entire society...". Now tell me who the idiot is? Second, very few now are "hooked on Jesus". Thus, we have significant problems in society. Again, do you "fear" your parents? Atheists are freeloaders on a U.S. political and economic system build and maintained due to Christian values/beliefs. Can you name a single country that has thrived with mostly atheists as citizens? Still waiting....
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 In other words, the brilliant "Steven" defines his religion in terms of what HE DOESN'T BELIEVE! How funny.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@anonazero - Perhaps one day you will face the truth. Many years I wasted believing the myths, and what a waste, religion wasted so much of my potential, believing things which led me nowhere fast.
stevenweir76 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 im sorry you wasted many years believing myths. maybe one day you'll reject your current one in favor of the truth.
anonazero 7 months ago
@stevenweir76 Ah yes...the one full of hate wants "peace on earth". Just like the atheist Stalin and Hitler. You've sure convinced me!
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago
@leftwingersareweak - Stalin was an atheist, Hitler was a Christian ( Read Mein Kampf you twit) . Who cares? It's mindless drones like you who follow the dogmatic propaganda even when evidence is beating you upside the head. Who the fuck taught you anything, you are seriously ignorant of basic history. Go to school (not home school) and come back when you actually know anything worth saying. You keep opening your mouth and sounding dumber and dumber. Are you actually getting dumber as we speak?
stevenweir76 6 months ago
@stevenweir76 Haha. Another fool who thinks that Hitler was a Christian. You really are lacking in knowledge of history dude. Your lack of rational thought processes and logic are stunning. Did you even go to school? Do you even spend time reading? I feel sorry for one who is so full of hate and bitterness. I am scared for your wife and daughter actually because you will self-destruct due to the religion of atheism/nihilism.
leftwingersareweak 6 months ago