「HD」John Choi vs Ed Ma Devastation 2009 SFIV LBF

[ACTUALLYrussell]

i dont have a clue wtf ed ma was trying in this match

[voidofambition]

AMAZING fireball pressure. He basically wont that first round with just plasma lo.

[lilgoldfish]

Maybe because this match was last year but they both don't seem extremely good to me. The ryu is regular ryu with simple combos and same goes with akuma. I play akumas online that would mind fuck you till u cry.

[Tatsumaki121]

@lilgoldfish lol you are clearly very new to the fighting game community

[lilgoldfish]

@Tatsumaki121 I might be new but i prob can beat you in this game any day. 

[Tatsumaki121]

@lilgoldfish lol internet real talk...

[lilgoldfish]

@Tatsumaki121 add me, if you play on live. lilgoldfish92, will play couple of games if connection is good?

[rocknflip66]

@Tatsumaki121 word, let me know if you happen to play the lil fish XD..

[Zarat818]

its funny because people love to complaine about everything. from camping to spaming to the food they eat... just be happy your not a war child that has to play a real fps from the day they can hold a gun. gg btw

[GodLovesMe666]

@Zarat818 Only scrubs who don't know shit, complain about every minute detail, and only because they bad enough to lose to that so called bullshit.

[TheGosu]

Do you guys even know who John Choi is? You know how there's Alex Valle of the American old school pros? John Choi is the Asian Oriental Equivalent.

[Makingnewnamesisdumb]

@TheGosu John Choi is as american as Valle.

[TheGosu]

@Makingnewnamesisdumb What colour is his skin? What is his ethnic background?

Do you even know english? Lol?

[Makingnewnamesisdumb]

@TheGosu Choi is from California. Also, if you didn't notice, Valle is Hispanic. Wouldn't that also make him somehow not American by this logic? Choi might not be as "old school" as Valle, but he's certainly at least as American. Shit, if you really want to go by race nobody except the native Americans are American. The nature of your comments seem fairly ignorant.

[SMQonDemand]

who is that retard who keeps going on about fireball spam, he ruined the video

[tuber52]

i hope this devastation they dont allow dj wheat to be commentating. i prefer my SF with more hype and with a person with more technical knowledge of the game

[plipmanzz]

sw00zie

[cheapch3wy49]

Edma is scared for his life against Choi on that ground boy. Damn choi is good with his fire balls. id be petrified not knowing what to to do. every time edma even attempted to jump in he was still got uppercutted (most of the time). Damn choi knows how to read

[iShysty05]

3:22 OMGOSH!!!!!!!!!!

[Thomahawk08]

Im an akuma player but man That ryu has one of the sickest fireball game I ever seen. The sick part is how smart he was about it. Anticipating a jump for a srk. Trading a air fireball for a sweep. The read and react style was Superb.

Crazy Ryu playing a complete Anti-Akuma style.

[ACTUALLYrussell]

@Thomahawk08 ed ma was playing a shit akuma imo, i think this is when he switched

[shempi81]

EDMA's fucking amazing..

[hazeddon]

lol back then akuma resets were still brand new.

[AnonOFCali]

the commentators are good as commentators but as u can see when akuma did the reset into the demon flip they were obv surprised. they're knowledgeable of the game but you can tell that their commentary compared to the FADC commentary just can't be compared.

[shiningwizard327]

This is the best tourney video i've seen in a long time. Not just because Choi and Ed Ma did great, but the commentating in this video was superb! Mainly because it was NOT "wanna-be-ghetto-talk" coming from the commentators like I usually hear in all of the SF4 vids here.

[liljuanito22]

Dam John Choi is baiting Edma. A bunch of hadokens and then to finish it a shoruyken. Imagine John Choi vs Daigo hahaha, a shit load of hadokens hahahaha. No skills at all.

[Quake2815]

If it works and you cant counter it, keep doin it.

[derekmok]

Besides, it can be argued that Akuma has an even stronger fireball game to begin with. Ed Ma couldn't present a threat to Choi with his fireballs, and Choi's anti-air reactions (actually, all reactions in general) were utterly superior. I didn't see any particularly effective uses of the teleport move either. An Akuma who can't jump in is doomed.

[chiefmegadeth]

true but it's boring as fuck! and makes me root for the other guy...

[Quake2815]

@chiefmegadeth lol

[malakyoma]

He's saving the good stuff li...

DR OCTAGONAPUS BRAAAAAAAAA

[Deadpool1125]

John Choi is a spamming fag.

[raxzar]

@Deadpool1125 Fuck you scrub l2p and come then back

[ClumzyRice]

the commentators are idiots. thats ryu second main move and dont tell me u wont show it if they are from away from u.. its not spamming.. its the HADOUKEN

[derekmok]

If these commentators are idiots, then there *are* no good game commentators. These gentlemen obviously play the game, know the players, know how to build excitement, and make crisp strategic observations. They're also verbally articulate. This Devastation series contains possibly the best fighting-game commentary I've seen on YouTube.

[ClumzyRice]

no sum of the commentators dont play. and they say a lot of necessary stuff. u can think they build excitement bcuz that is ur opinion and ur entitled to think that. i jus dont like them tho. no hard feelings

[amn1088]

Always nice to watch a good player show how much of a scrub edma really is.

[4Eyez226]

That match took a whole lot of skill from Ryu.

[antzenpro3]

Ed ma isnt doing too great in this match he usually plays better

[endothermicblaze]

does anyone else think that edma completely threw this match? or is his tactic to really eat fireballs all day like akuma has the health for it?

[sonichurricanedotcom]

Word of advice: The word "spam" doesn't exist in the fighting game community. Using it makes you sound really dumb.

Do you really think Ed Ma or Choi don't know how to punish any fireball they can predict?

It's.  Not. Spam.

[k1ngch0wm31n]

The word spam does exist...

It just doesn't have any meaning for higher tier players.

You'll see scrub players spam all the time.

They spam because they think it's best tactic to use and because it's easy to repeat it.

[sonichurricanedotcom]

No it simply does not exist, sir. These announcers are making excuses for spam because they don't know what they're talking about.

In tournament play, predictability is an automatic loss.

Choi throws 20 fireballs in the first round. To the announcer it looks like he's doing the same thing 20 times. In reality he's applying 10 different fireball tactics here.

It only looks the same because Choi has been playing Ryu for 15 years and he's gotten VERY good at masking his intentions.

[k1ngch0wm31n]

When a player uses the same tactic without understanding WHY he's using the same tactic, it's spam.

Choi throwing 20 fireballs a round and a random online scrub throwing 20 fireballs a round may have the same result, but the scrub is still spamming.

He doesn't understand WHY he's doing it, he's just doing it because it's easy.

[sonichurricanedotcom]

Except Choi's not a scrub so what's your point?

[alimarno]

Yes idiot. He's doing 10 different things. With the exact same move using the exact same motion.

The term exists at every level, and it exists for a reason. And i'm sorry to burst your retard bubble, but it's not because there's 20 layers of yomi behind a string of fireballs.

[sonichurricanedotcom]

Actually every layer of yomi is represented in that string of fireballs. Do you need me to explain it to you?

You can act as rude as you like but it won't change the fact that the term "spam" isn't used within the fighting game community (for good reason). It's only used by people from the outside looking in.

I'm pointing it out because it's a misleading term used out of laziness. It'll hinder anyone who picks it up and starts thinking of this as spam.

How many more reasons do you need?

[andrewenson]

i still call zangief spamage even though i dont actually complain about him. he has so many openings :/

only person i have a problem with is blanka. but even people that do "spam" arent exactly great or too difficult to beat.

[alimarno]

At least 1, preferably based in reality.

[sonichurricanedotcom]

Huh? Oh, you were trying to be funny?

How would the internet ever survive without you dime-a-dozen tough guys getting in everyone's way?

Whatever dude, i've said everything i wanted to say and you've clearly got nothing to say, so i'm done here. Keep on using that word if you like sounding like an amateur. See if it bothers me.

[Kamukix]

@sonichurricanedotcom well said I REALLY hate hearing people use the word 'spam' when they have no idea what they're talking about. Choi's use of the Hadoken was amazing in this fight, fantastic pressure and spacing/pace.

I don't use anyone who has a projectile, and I still don't call it spam. I know better than that, the quicker you can stop saying stupid things like that, the quicker you'll learn how to adapt to the strategy.

Kei

[ArbitraryLox]

@sonichurricanedotcom I agree with you. I am still very new to this community, but I think that whatever strategy you use is legal. I know I used to call these moves spam out of pure hatred of the fact that I couldn't figure out a good defense. So im sure that people that call it spam are feeling the same way.

[010amauri]

sexy ? :S

[paulietheboss]

i think devastation was well organised and im glad the videos are out there, but swoozie and particularly djwheat really aren't saying that much even though they're constantly talking. i dont think they know the game all that well.

[abcd286]

John Choi? Try John down downfoward foward punchoi.

[dudebfg0123]

Has anybody here even heard of John Choi? He's a pretty famous SF player and makes his wins look easy.

[FlyThruDAir]

Wtf Ed ma is better than this. Why was he running into fire balls and getting counter hit by them?

[franzken]

thats why i am a tekken player... lol spammer

[RiceLUMFAO]

lol proud to be a tekken player?

street fighter players run your shit. ever heard of ricky ortiz, ryan hart or sanford?

[franzken]

lol runs it... ryan hart got owned by qudans,knee,mainstreet ryu... and never heard of the others

[KrownClown]

Both of theese guys are some of the best america has

but how the hell was john choi winning the plasma war? how the hell was edma getting caught with some unsafe fireballs. for god sakes john choi ran the same set up everytime

[TheBreaker]

John Choi is old school. He's an old SF2 and an HDR player - so that hadouken spam is top notch.

[paulwallito]

if it aint broke..dont fix it LoL

[GiantRobot17]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[75touch]

ed ma is the best ken in the world but even the best ken cant beat the best ryu or akuma

[iFail2]

Wrong!

[vikas]

Edma should stick to Ken, since hes one of the best Ken's I've ever seen.Hes Akuma needs a lot more work.

[markitymark90]

You kidding me, he got eighth place this year using akuma at evo.

[vikas]

Yeah, he switched to Akuma for evo 2k9.

[6gambler9]

he got 3rd no 8 but i agree his akuma needs no work

[markitymark90]

oh yeah third my bad.

[lordofultima]

lol, his Akuma is a lot better than his Ken ever was.

[vikas]

Wrong.Hes Akuma is pretty bad.Atleast hes Ken was comparable to some of the top Ken's in Japan, but hes Akuma is horrible compared to some Momochi's.

[lordofultima]

He got 3rd at Evo, what the hell are you talking about? His Ken was comparable to Japanese Kens because Ken is a shallow-ass character.

Where were Kens at evo? Not top anything, that's for sure.

[vikas]

Don't get me wrong, I respect Edma as a player, but the only reason why he reached the top 3 is because there just weren't enough 'good' players that were in the SF4 category.I'm damn sure if some of the top Jap players like Iyo, Mago and Momochi and Poongko (Korea) where there, he wouldn't be at that position.

[lordofultima]

Poongko is not top, he was beaten by Justin Wong and Laugh. He has a problem with defense. I think you just have some Japanese complex. You can't ever beat someone if you idolize them, remember that.

[vikas]

I never said I idolized anyone.The fact remains that Japanese players are the best SF4 players on earth.

"You can't ever beat someone if you idolize them, remember that."

I beg to differ.

[Sephlock]

Ditto for Sakura!

[AJDaEnvoy]

why don't you go there then. if there was not good players at evo, seriously bro get your facts right before you open your mouth.

[vikas]

Yup, keep spamming posts every 2 min, that makes you right, doesn't it?

So, you don't think this years SF4 evo competitor weren't good enough? I can bet you anything, like I mentioned before, if some of the best Jap players were to have played in the tourney, Edma wouldn't be 3rd.Just look at the way Edma got ripped apart by Daigo, he didn't even last long enough to adapt.

So, before you tell me to get my facts straight, how about THINKING before you post something telling me that I'm wrong.

[franzken]

korean players are better

[AJDaEnvoy]

exactly, i agree with lordofultima who has a great akuma aswell.

[AJDaEnvoy]

ur mad, seriously ur mad, ed ma's akuma is bad? ur mad, seriously ur mad.

[BEASTMODE415]

momochis akuma is the best against zoning

[ricefarmer]

edma said he was more scared of choi then daigo

[HybridSnake]

Nice reset.

[vseegobi]

I wish there was a way to mute the commentators.

[SsjGames]

I wish choi was more up close \: cause edma would own him then. He had A LOT of trouble just passing fireballs.

Although correct me if im wrong, isn't akumas fireball recovery as fast as ryu's? Why didnt he spam back

[SsjGames]

ken doesn't suck. People use el feurte, even a rose, Cviper (a lot) e-honda, in tournaments as well. And Ken is higher tier then them (well one spot under Viper I think)

My point is, he aint bad at all. He has a lot of mixups, and stuff like that. His kara is real good.

Edma said he won't play as ken competitive anymore, cause akuma is basically better as he said (its true though)

for tournaments, its hard. It sucks though, wish there were more mid tier chars cause everyone has akuma

[mxtra22]

I like Ken but i think they could have made him better. His ultra sucks unless you can somehow get the full version and you dont get the knockdowns with his specials that u do with the other shotos, even his EX specials. But he is a hell of a rushdown character..

[BryanV4]

Yea I know. His hadoken is also slower. Ryu's Dp comes out faster. No knockdown. Ultra sucks ass.

But hes cool

[hundredprizm]

viper and honda are higher than ken, ken does not bring to the table what ryu or akuma can so there is no point in using him competitively, and there's far less akumas imo compared to ryu sagat geif etc etc.

[BryanV4]

On the eventhub TIer list, which I always used. E.honda is one spot below Ken, and viper one spot above ken. So not a big difference. Like a one point bad matchup difference. Yet viper is always used. (Although she is pretty unique)

imo, there are more akuma's. Well in the top. Idk. In Evo, there were 3 akumas.. Edma, sanford.. (another dude?) and one ryu, one rufus (and others lol)

[DJRedrumofEPG]

There was Ed Ma and Shady K using Akuma. Sanford Busted out Cammy for Top 8.

[BryanV4]

That was once though. He mained Akuma for this, and fought the rest of the fights with him

[DJRedrumofEPG]

Well, he wasn't exactly sure about using Cammy in Top 8, but I think that he'll maybe move onto Cammy now based on his results.

[ieodksnw787]

Ken doesn't suck but he has alot of REALLY bad matchups, especially against Zangief, Akuma and Sagat.

[ModernNosferatu]

I don't agree I think Ken vs Akuma is a good match up. I beat alot of Akumas with Ken

[ieodksnw787]

that shouldn't happen w/ two players of equal skill. A good Akuma will not let Ken get anywhere near jab range.

[ModernNosferatu]

Kens dragon punch catches Akuma in the air alot when he's throwing his air fireballs

[ieodksnw787]

c'mon, you can't be serious about spamming shoryus against air FBs, that's so punishable. A good Akuma will keep Ken outside of jab and footsies range and will outzone him w/ air FBs and shakenatsu FBs.

[ModernNosferatu]

Well, I don't play at a super high level and I have lost to good akumas before and the air fireball does keep my Ken back but I get in almost as much as I do with Ryu but Ryu has a higher stanima so I get in easier with him

[ModernNosferatu]

Akumas stanima is so poor I can zone him with Ken most of the time

[AJDaEnvoy]

ryu and ken got the same stamina bruv, it's just that ryu is better with his hadoken's then ken and is stronger.

[okayokayokayokayyes]

Wow ! Ed Ma's combo at 3:20 !

[lunatic4jc]

john choi kinda plays like daigo.. zone with fireball.. good fundamentals and good defense.

[ieodksnw787]

my money on Choi as the dark horse to take Evo. His fundamentals and footsie game are straight up scary. The way he dismantled Wong's Rufus was much more impressive to me than Daigo's win. Now that he's had a few extra weeks of practice, I expect him to beast this weekend.

[MADBALL9991]

John choi played like a bitch. Ed could have kicked his ass if his defense wasn't so bad.

[joejones]

LOL. you scrub

[MADBALL9991]

scrub, lol, pwns, noob...seriously? is that how little boys talk nowadays? like girls? get outta here you little fag.

[joejones]

quit being so defensive.

[Goutetsuu]

yes, now at 1 years at out arcade in japan and USA a much PRO player change main, (edma swithced to Akuma, Combofiend swith Abel to Boxer, Oji san swith Sagatto to Abel etc..)

[AxxesS9000]

What? The fuck are you saying?

[toge64]

The difference is everyone else sees fireballs as a move to keep away people or to damage as part of a combo.

Daigo and Choi see fireballs as a poke, pressuring you, forcing you to jump, where you eat a DP.

[Goutetsuu]

why ED-MA no play with Ken?

Akuma no hes main....

[KaalVeiten]

He switched to Akuma.

[joejones]

he dropped ken, cuz he sucks

[TheRoccoKO]

No, Akuma just has more potential, Ken is a decent character.

[charlescountyboy]

Choi's Ryu play is similar to Daigo superb ground game and fireball pressure, when he starts really playing SF4 people gonna be in trouble

[Duo11]

I think Ed needed to throw some red fireballs into the mix there. It won't score you much damage against Ryu but it will force him to spam less hadokens.

[jdigitalseven]

John Choi said he hadnt beent playing SF4 that long. Can you imagine him with more experience?

[jdigitalseven]

They call him the master, yet many west coast player eliminate him in tournaments, and the east coast (which is singularly Justin Wong) beats him too. It must be because he usually uses Ken Masters, mr cheap shoryuken. They need to make a spin off with either all shotos or no shotos, as they are the only ones with tools to defeat every character.

[hoods333]

You can't know too much about SF4. If you did you would know how balanced it is. Just about every character (sxcluding dan) has tools to defeat every character.

[jdigitalseven]

Yes it is balanced more, and Dan is better than he has ever been. But shotos still rain supreme.  You wont fint that in KOF game.

[8231549]

except Ken. He's garbage

[mechzz]

waaaaah waaaah if only shotos weren't top tier

If the top 3 were Ryu, Ken and Akuma they all played exactly the same, you'd have a case. But that's definitely not the case.

Cry more.

[jdigitalseven]

Play ANY SF game and you can clearly see how overly favored shotos are. Not the case in any SNK game, they are truely balanced. Either you are deceived or willingly ignorant of this. I bet you play nothing but shotos, but Im sure you'd deny it.

[mechzz]

hmm alright lets look at 3rd strike top 3 are Chun Yun Ken go down further you have Makoto, Urien, Dudley maybe Akuma Lets look at ST O.Sagat Balrog Dhalsim The highest shoto is RYU who is considered MID TIER. Please stop crying scrub. As I said, if the fighting games were top 3 shotos and they ALL PLAYED ALIKE, then you would have a case. But they aren't, so shut up and get off SNK's dick.

[jdigitalseven]

^^The Scrubbiest Comment of our Generation

Most people who talk about scrubs are infact vetern scrubs themselves. No tournament player will talk about scrubs, only people who are insecure scrub talk.

[mechzz]

That makes no sense, you just used an ad hoc argument. "If he calls people a scrub, it must mean he's a scrub."

I'm going to go ahead and ignore every thing you say since you make unfounded statements without backing it up with facts. You obviously don't know tier listing, are most likely saying shotos are over powered because you're really bad at the game and get destroyed by flow chart kens.

[mechzz]

BTW just to add on to it, you don't know anybody about the scene either.

Tournament players will always talk smack. Watson does it, I've even see Valle do it. So please go take a walk, SCRUB.

[DJRedrumofEPG]

While I'm a huge fan of destroying scrubs on YT, throwing out tier lists is also pretty scrubby. Anyone can say what the tiers are. But let's not cling to them like some sort of SF Bible that is to be quoted. Be creative with your retorts because I can throw out SF games where shotos are top tier (Alpha 2, 3, Hyper Fighting)

[mechzz]

The argument was that he said ALL shotos are over powered. The thing is that they play differently. If you play sf4 and you play akuma exactly like ryu, you are going to be in for a big surprise.

I can understand why you think citing tier list can be scrubby but they do matter. They are an excellent gauge of how to play the matchup. Essentially, that's what tier list are. "You are favored against these characters and not against these." How you play the match up is completely up to you.

[DJRedrumofEPG]

Right. I understand about tier lists mattering, but you can imagine how many times I've heard "yeah that Ken was good, too bad he's only mid-tier, so he's not as good as Sagat."

Sure, Sagat has an advantage in most matchups, if not all. But it's the human element that makes these types of games so fun. I play whoever I want, regardless of tier listings.

[AxxesS9000]

No. Just because every character can, conceivably, win, doesn't make the game balanced. When over half the cast has to work their asses off for wins, and a tiny elite at the top can just rely on their crazy high stats, we don't call that balanced. SF4 isn't an imbalanced wreck, but it needs to be tweaked. Badly.

[mrshiftyballs]

by fighting game standards SF4 is pretty damn well balanced. lower mid-tier and up are all tourney viable.

[AxxesS9000]

I mean yeah, I'm with you on that, and I wouldn't argue otherwise. I mean, we've already seen Viper, Sim, and Abel win big tournaments, and I've seen some really scary Sakuras, Vegas, and Roses out there.

But, all the same, when people win with those characters, it's because they've put their heart and soul into getting them tournament ready. Ryu, Sagat, and to some extent Gief, on the other hand... like I said. You can damn near lean on their stats alone and be just fine.

[polarity55]

theyre both week 1 combos and mixups so

[garrettshawdotcom]

its called zoning man. if akuma gets in the can really deal damage. so choi just used fbs to keep akuma at range. note how much he gets in there and sweeps underneath the fireballs to deal damage to akuma. most noobs wouldn't think to do that and use that opening. John Choi is sick. fundamentals. ;)

[swoozie06]

3:35 - I love it

[i208khonsu]

Naw dog, 3:22 is so much bettah! =D

[jeovantino]

to my this was like the first oficial sf tournament, since the whole tournament was broadcasted , before this everything i saw was from youtube and shit like that, gootecks talks about an oficial US ranking, well to me this was the first round of it.

[jello1985]

lol footsies ftw.. lol and ppl said there were no footsies in sfiv.

[rizhall]

JOHN CHOI LADIES AND GENTLEMEN

[foxhound21xx]

DA CHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOI

[toge64]

notice:

CHOI NEVER JUMPS

His footsies and ground game is just insane.

[WolfofRage]

i counted i think four jumps from choi; one i believe was to jump over a fire ball, another was a blocked crossup the third he ate a hit in mid air and the last to get away from air fireballs. wow four time this dude jumps

[Peetar]

That is mad patience and skills built over like a decade of playing SF.

[nainqx]

wow choi is actually pretty good

[oghowie]

Choi zones the shit out of people.

[sheeplols]

Been looking forward to these videos!

Thanks!!

[JDMxxEVO3]

Amazing.