I am an atheist and I agree with this message. I would also wonder if Pastor Mark would comment on girls who don't grow up to be women. For example, a girl who wants to divorce her husband not because he was abusive, or that he isn't providing a good home, but because she "isn't feeling it".
I'm 21, living with parents who still think I'm their responsibility. I really want a job. Not just pray about it but actually do something and get the hell out of my parent's place.
@BritneyAddicted4EVA - This is where I disagreed with Mark Driscoll mostly is just what you said. Sometimes circumstances keep us from moving on and becoming adults not just men. In my own case I have a below average IQ and I've been raped twice this year alone which has put me back not only emotionally but physically also. Does he expect people with multiple overbearing issues to just go out and take responsibility if they litterally can't or shouldn't?
Helpful Mark..."no you are not a real man...you are an idiot...you are boy...you are a boy who can shave..." Come on! Its to easy to take it upon yourself to call out what is obviously apparent. Yay! And 23 minutes of it! Men...Read Wild At Heart by John Eldredge for some true help. God wants to father men today.
This is a rant. 90% of this doesn't even come from scripture, so where does it come from? Secular values, I would say. Except for the part where women get blamed for enabling the immaturity of men; the bible does have a history of that.
Movinbutnotshakin, This might be because you haven't read even 30% of the bible. Not to mention this "rant" that you pointed out, seems to be about something (adolescence) that does not exist in biblical times. Also you might want to check out the women that he mentioned near the beginning of the video. They were some powerful influential women.
I loved this message. I just have two thoughts. Sometimes its not the Mom who coddles the adolescent male. Sometimes its the Dad. Also, women get stuck in adolescence too! They can be just as self centered and self unaware as boys.
That being said, I'm stuck in a house w/2 grown adolescents who think they're in love because they're so good at playing video games together, meanwhile their children wonder why video games are more important than them.
Priceless? Its good advice in this vid buy it's also commen sense.folks need to think critically about consumerism AND religion including all things in life.personal development helps us all.research!
What a tool this guys is!!! He thinks he's so damn cool with his stupid shirt, his boy band face mic, and his faux hawk hair do. He also believes himself to be intelligent and analytical- which he is not.
is the definition of a "Real" man, someone who lay's down his life for a friend? if I was to preach on a stage that which Pastor Mark did here, I would have had a head full of pain afterwards. I find this Judgemental, Proud, and over simplified at times. Men do like to run away from thing's and go and play games and hide, and sulk in their cave's that's what men do sometimes. Women are the one's that have courage and it's a mother that give's her son courage not the father!!!
@opendtuning 2. and usually in a marriage, it's the woman that wear's the trouser's. Women have the courage to go to church but a lot of guy's are freightened to go in...
I have done immense research into the bible,it has gospels that were omitted on purpose.Don't ever take anyone's word for it....do your own research....especially if you're going to base your life on a belief.Research it!RESEARCH,RESEARCH,RESEARCH.If you do not then you are just a follower. Make your own mind up....it's your right.
@unitruth You obviously haven't researched it enough.How about the Hebrew bible that was canonized was done so before Jesus and then Jesus preached on it and about it's truth.That alone means it's profitable by God.How about all the prophetic things spoken that came true by Jesus.How about all the apocrypha that weren't accepted.Those were books that were written to emphasize the other scriptures that were already written. They just preached on the exact same things without any contradictions
@unitruth contradictions... accept dates and times of certain things that all the other books got correct thanks to historical science.Nothing in the apocrypha went against, or preached against God.They just emphasized him.They are very profitable in their reading.I encourage you to read them and see that they are okay.hey just weren't chosen to be placed in because the spirit of God oversaw the canonization of the bible and decided which were the scriptures that He divinely wrote.
good points and flawed points....consumerism is bad?look at his shirt.the right of boys into men has been around for millions(if your a fundamentalist thousands of years) of years.women do it too.its natural.video games are entertainment...not necessarily evil,I'd rather my child be at home safe playing video games then running the streets.he mixes science and religion....I can't trust that.Make your own mind up!
It would be really sad if your judgment of this man, or Christianity on a whole, hindered you from seeing the priceless lesson that proceeded from this exhortation.
If a liar speaks the truth, does it make the truth a lie?
If your primary instinct is to judge the man and not embrace his words...you are of all critics to be most pitied.
I say this not to attack you but to move you to introspect.
He could have been in a diaper and bib, you cannot deny the truth in this message.
Thank you so much Mark and Mars Hill. I needed this so much. I'm 20 and this Fall semester I'm deciding my major in college and I've been a complainer and a coward about it. I've completely been an Evangellyfish. Its time that I be decisive and be a man about my future in Christ.
IT IS SO GOOD TO SEE AND HEAR A PASTOR WHO NOT A '' PUNK '' WHAT THIS MAN IS SAYING AND HOW HE IS SAYING REALLY NEEDS TO BE SAID , SICK OF COWARD , WEAK , TOO NICE AND SWEER HONEY PREACHING FOR PEOPLE TO CHANGE , TELL IT LIKE IT IS , THIS MAN YOU CAN'T FOOL
2:10 "Le' me explain to you guys, how you been lied to"
He then goes on to lie; how ironic.
Responsibility is the key...however. There is almost certainly no god. To believe in god postpones the day you grow up and accept responsibility for your (one) life. Take responsibility for setting your own purpose is life. Take responsibility for working out your own code of ethics.
There might be a few guys that don't struggle with women or sex? But look in the bible, the worlds strongest man, the worlds godliest man and the worlds wisest man all had problems with women and sex! I don't think I am any better than these three men so I married a christian women and started a family.
Love Busters: Overcoming the Habits that Destroy Romantic Love - great book for those called to be single as well as married. Even recommended (and non-judgmental) for couples that are not married. Replace Demands, Judgments, Outbursts, Lies, and Annoying, and Thoughtless Negligence with Good Negotiation Skills - Also deals with Career, Time, Children, and Friends/Relatives. Addiction, Infidelity. Build Love with Care and Time..
Do people just watch a video or listen to a sermon and then when it strikes a nerve stop listening to the rest of it... great way to discern the truth in what someone has to say. Ears to hear... because he definitely said if God calls you to be single the sun is going to explode so go get married right now. I distinctly heard that. So it makes sense to keep bringing that up and whining about it. He most assuredly was not confronting the issue of immaturity in "men"...
This guy is kinda annoying to watch... he talks in a way that makes it seem like no one else matter.. like if you ask him a question, he will not listen. That's the feeling I get. I also don't agree with most of what he says. There is nothing wrong with being single... it's actually admirable.
I believe that we are all individuals with our own paths in life to take. We are not all destined for the same things. Parenthood isn't for everybody.
@PurpleShades1 Nothing at all. In Fact in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul discerns between singleness and the married life. Both being blessed, but your effectiveness for the Kingdom of God will be greater as a single man.
Pastor Mark is merely speaking to mans immaturity and how it's typically embraced rather than stepping up as a man in Christ.
It's just majority of people will easily be able to apply that to their own lives, and if not, the picture is clearly painted to see the meaning of the sermon.
I love Mark and he's right about a lot, but I think he sadly forgets the fact that some of the most mature and Godly men never "met a girl and got married"
example: oooohhhh say maybe like, Jesus? not to mention Paul.
Driscoll seems to be really ignorant and inconsiderate to the young single guys who are passionately pursuing Godliness and holiness in their freedom of their singleness. I'm one of em and am sick of the stupid man made pressures to get married.
@LinkD3 -- He also preaches in other sermons about these men who have the "gift of singleness", and talks about how Christ never met a wife etc . . . so actually you are the ignorant one for taking one sermon and assuming that is all Mark believes. . .
@LinkD3 Well, I would say this is a good observation. But to voice name calling towards his sermon cause he is bold enough to call out the 90% of males whom this is completely accurate... Id say that's a bit far.
Pastor Mark is obviously not directing this sermon towards that small group of individuals who choose to live single like Christ. So to bash on that, I have to disagree.
So to listen to this sermon in context, then to say ignorant or inconsiderate. Would be quite inaccurate. Personally
I've listened to this entire sermon "in context" before and even visited Mars Hill and met Mark in person, and after which I feel even more strongly on the topic... Again, Driscoll's great, and biblically solid, but when 7 of my single friends who attended MH told me they felt outcast, alone, and unwelcomed by the slew of married couples at that church (despite repeatedly trying to connect) before finally leaving, then I would say there may be a problem...
Mark needs to take a look in the mirror before he charges others w/ an unnecessarily extended period of adolescence. Nice fauxhawk you have started there, princess.
@jrobfilms1 Perfect example of sexist preaching. It's not enough that he's peddling an ancient, contradictory religion. But he's only happy if he simultaneously preaches outdated bigotry.
So basically...if you have an interest or a hobby, you're a fucking loser. Even if you make money and are doing a job that is essentially your dream job.
@SPACET4RD Not at all. He's pointing out how people can become lazy and unproductive. Ex. Playing video games isn't bad but it's not wise to play 10 or more hours a day. That's foolish.
I could be bias, he is talking about my age group, but it was a tad bit over-the-top with opinions. Then again, this is the teaching style of Driscoll." A man is a cultivator and producer." Sweet quote, great points, I'm just rubbed wrong by the delivery.
When someone believes they have a "new" teaching from the Bible it's usually Heresy. This is NOT a new teaching. It's a teaching that has been neglected for decades. Test it against scripture, if it stands then it is a Biblical teaching.
ok first off i dont think he is telling anyone to break up with anyone. he is saying that there are some people who need to change their mind sets towards life. There are a lot of people who have no aspirations. And if a husband/boyfriend watever is not providing for his wife like the bible says he should (not including people who have been laid off and that kind of thing and truly try to provide for their family)
Adolescence (teenager) is an invented word in the 1950s when children grew up without adults when both parents of a child was working and not present at home to raise them. Therefore, children grew up by themselves without adults creating their own world, where adults could no longer relate to them - adolescence. "It takes an adult to raise an adult" - Dr. Chap Clark. I believe solving adolescence is not going to be done just on the pulpit, but adults need to start reconnecting with youths today
All six are there over my two posts. And I don't agree with your asertion. you haven't answered my original reasons for disagreeing with his "unpacking" this verse of scripture. As someone who has been trained in hermeneutics, I went to Carson for my support primarily because his text is a gold standard. Deal with the text.
a lot of good points, but he generalizes all 'nonmen' as those who stay up late playing video games, porn addicts, and bingers. not saying that there aren't guys like that out there, more so that there are other variants to what a 'nonman' is.
The Simple principle is that when Adult Males become mentally stuck in teenage/childish mindset they show these characteristics and many other variants that i'm sure u can list
You and anybody else who needs "The Big Man in the Sky" to guide their lives and give the hope and consolance is NOT. A. MAN., because a man is completely self-empowered and self-directed.
@CleverDjembe i feel sorry for you. you have believed the biggest lie in the world, that you're the most important thing in the universe. its not about blind obedience. its about obedience to the Lord of all creation. if you dislike Christianity and what it teaches then why waste your time watching videos about it. why not go to your job, or play your xbox and stop trying to ruin peoples lives with your pathetic excuse for secular dogma.
I agree. He wears jeans and a shirt like the ones I wore when I was 16 - not very professional dress for someone preaching about maturity. I agree with most of what he says, but he is wrong to encourage people to break up. Breaking up is always sinful because it destroys the relationship that God has created. Also, badgering women who help their boyfriends is also wrong, because the Bible encourages us to help the poor and downtrotten.
Breaking up is definitely sinful because God has a hand in creating relationships and they exist for His glory rather than for our benefit. Therefore, to destroy what God has created is a sin. Jesus said that the only grounds for ending romantic relationship was infidelity. That doesn't just apply to married couples - It also applies to the premarital period. You don't date someone you intend to marry, and you cannot break up unless there is unfaithfulness. Encouraging break ups is a sinful
There is no difference between a marital and a premarital relationship, except there is no public promise of faithfulness, and there is no sexual contact allowed. Breaking up is therefore no difference than divorce, and is a sin unless there is infidelity.
@MYpineapplejuice WHAT?! so basically you're saying that as soon as someone agrees to date you two of you should get married because having a divorce is the same thing as breaking up so you might as well get laid in the process.
Just because something isn't the Bible, that does make it right. The Bible doesn't explicitly condemn abortion, but abortion is wrong because it violates clear Christian principles. Breaking up isn't explicitly condemned in the Bible, but it clearly violates Christian principles, and that is why it is wrong. I am not adding to the Bible - I am applying Biblical principles to a modern day culture.
@MYpineapplejuice ...you're a crazy person with some seriously jacked up theology. again, whoever is teaching stuff like that needs to read the bible.
Within America and a few other Western nations it is normal to break up with someone. But in many parts of the world, perhaps most of the world, you are expected to marry your first love, and to break up is considered almost as wrong as divorce. It is only because of a sinful western culture that you have been de-sensitized to the sin of breaking up.
To me, you sound just like the religious leaders in the day of Jesus. They wanted to follow the law, but they only did the minimum and felt self righteous. Instead of sticking to the minimum standard, we need to do all we can to demonstrate our love for Jesus and our love for others. It isn't enough to just avoid divorce; we must love so intensely that breaking up is not an option.
@MYpineapplejuice actually christ made fun of the pharisees for taking smaller parts of the law to extremes, not doing the minimum, while neglecting weightier matters of the law like justice and mercy.
ya know, kind of like saying that breaking up with someone when it isn't working out is the same as divorce.
If you love someone, you would never break up with someone (unless there was infidelity), and loving other people is a sign that the Holy Spirit is in your life. Therefore if you break up with someone, that is a sin. God doesn't abandon us so why should we abandon other people by breaking up with them. Is that love?
@MYpineapplejuice you obviously know nothing about love, relationships, and what it means to do right by someone that you care about.
you're of the ridiculous mindset that you should marry the first person that agrees to date you no matter how much you dont get along, mesh, or how awkward it is. that is insane, immature, and unbiblical to say the least.
In America, probably the most sinful country in the world, you have become desensitized to the wickedness of breaking up with someone. America is a throw away society - they throw away marriages, relationships, unborn children, and pretty much everything else. That is why you don't realize what a wicked sin it is to break up with someone. Throw away your American ideals and start actually living according to the Bible.
Funny, but I don't remember Jesus calling anyone a "loser." I believe this sermon would have been better off spoken to a young men's group or in a men's conference. For Pastor Driscoll to extract this topic out of Luke 1:80 is a severe stretch.
I think Pastor Driscoll means well, but getting up on his soapbox, talking down to, and berating men for 16 minutes straight probably won't inspire those men to do anything but punch him in the mouth.
sounds like someone doesn't want to be told they are doing something wrong. My initial reaction to this was "wow, I need to push myself to become a man of God", it seems like your reaction is to nitpick at his language instead of the point: men are not taking responsibility for their own lives and working toward their mission for Christ. Take it for what it was meant and if you disagree, feel free not to listen. No need to bug others with your negativity.
Wow. I guess you showed me. Go back and read my comments again. Where did I write that I didn't agree with the premise of the sermon? I didn't like the delivery. Do you know how many young people leave the church because of this approach? Good for you that you felt inspired. But you're already saved. For those that are not saved, the goal is showing them the love of Jesus, not sarcastic condescension. Again, would Jesus be calling these guys "losers?" Next time, please think before you write.
"Terrible sermon sample, awful humor, not cute..."
Might want to take your own advice (think before you write) there... either I misunderstood you or (and this seems more likely) you wrote poorly, if you indeed intended no disdain towards him or his sermon. You made one neutral point on his sermon and three distinctly negative points on it, with two that had some negativity and some neutrality in them. Sorry for taking that as generally negative...
I TALKED ABOUT HIS USE OF SARCASM AND CONDESCENSION AND IT'S POTENTIAL EFFECTS ON THE ROOT MESSAGE! But you've failed to pay attention once again because you're so bent on winning a YouTube argument. You'd rather split hairs and insist you're right than let me have my own opinion. One more time, in my opinion, Pastor Driscoll is being a TERRIBLE ambassador for Christ for the first 16 minutes of this video. My final word on this topic is aimed directly at you: Stop letting pride get in your way.
Fallacy of argument 1: You are claiming knowledge of my intention rather than the raw evidence: what I wrote.
#2: I wrote "it seems like your reaction is to nitpick at his language instead of the point..." and now you are telling me "You'd rather split hairs and insist you're right than let me have my own opinion".
You are not only IGNORING what I said, but you are then taking one of the things I had a problem with and claiming I'm the one doing it. Opinion =/= complaint, I didn't say...
... that you weren't entitled to your own opinion, I said that your complaint just seemed to me to be nitpicking or "splitting hairs" rather than actually having a problem with the main message, which you've now said you don't disagree with. I could care less about an argument on Youtube, and as to pride... I have it. I am human and imperfect. But I would say to you sir, remove the plank from your eye before the splinter from mine.
This is a fine example of a pastor putting something into the text of God's Word that clearly is not in the text he is supposed to be exegeting (sp?) It does not matter if what he says is true or you agree with it, the text says nothing (or even implies) anything about our cultural understanding of adolescence. Even good pastors can get off track if they let their personal experience get in the way of properly expounding on what the text at hand is teaching us.
I do agree to some extent Pastor Mark exposited a passage that had nothing to do with the denotation of the word 'adolescence,' but I think he was talking more so the connotative meanings and their cultural reflections as many people see it.
Also, if Pastor Mark wasn't preaching exegetically, then by definition he would be preaching isogetically. I couldn't imagine, however, how anyone could come up with a case that Pastor Mark is corrupting the text through isogesis.
First, thanks for the kind reply. A lot of people wouldn't have the grace that you did in your response, so thanks!
But I still have to disagree with you. My argument has nothing to do with the semantics of the text, but rather that there is no support from the text (denotative or connotatively) for his 20+ minute rant. So, if the shoe fits, in this case, he is doing an injustice to the text at hand (he even states that a lot of commentators don't say a lot about this verse.)
Also, because I see a few people don't like what I have stated, to support my case, I'll go to one of the big guns: D.A. Carson-one of mark's guys. In Exegetical Fallacies, Dr. Don notes the logical fallacie of Unwarrented associative jumps on page 115 (2nd ed.), "...(this) occurs when a word or PHRASE triggers off an associated idea, concept, or experience THAT BEARS NO CLOSE RELATION TO THE TEXT AT HAND, yet is used to interpret the text." (emphasis mine)
Cont..."this error is shockingly easy to commit in textual preaching, overlooking the old adage that a text without a context becomes a pretext for a prooftext."
To be sure, a lot of mark's preaching/teaching is great (esp. the rebel's guide to joy and pray like Jesus!) But he needs to stop doing this (and he falls prey to it at times.)
Lastly, i didn't post the Carson quote as a lame appeal to authority. Mark respects him tremendously (as he should) and he has taught at MHC a few times.
in preaching, there is exegesis of the text AND exegesis of the culture. without the latter, application and life change for the hearer cannot take place.
Pastor mark is not above criticism, and I would challenge you to find me one example (Biblical) where life change (sanctification or new birth) comes from cultural exegesis. Again, I turn to D.A. Carson: there are six reasons not to abandon expository preaching...
It is the method least likely to stray from Scripture.
It teaches people how to read their Bibles.
It gives confidence to the preacher and authorizes the sermon.
by studying culture a preacher informs a person of how to correctly apply Scripture to their life. for example, without studying culture, you would not understand how to dress with purity under the principle of modesty. So, a girl learns not to wear super high skirts by the pastor telling her the bible teaches modesty. in other words, without cultural study, all you give in preaching is principles without specific application.
While I agree, and think people need to stop reading into text, I think here he's saying "look how insignificant it was that he just became a man... in that day it was expected" and building his sermon from that. In other words, I don't think he's trying to claim the Bible says all that about adolescence, but rather that a biblical man of valor (and he implies ALL or most are the same) simply did not consider anything BUT taking their lives and being responsible with them.
The last man's life settles into the grave. Our world is now left in ruins. Extinction exists across the Earth. Eulogy imprinted on their hearts. Humanity now forgotten in the void. Do you know the cause of the universe's failure? The cowardly white light of god is to blame. The church weakness and suffocates the will. Man-made plague to poison the race. Fools live to be led by fools. Holy arrogance builds on their mountain ignorance. This world of misery and you are to blame.
i am not in support of this guy, but this is still a fairly petty grasp for irony. the guy equated adolescence to things like living with your parents at age 20 and needing a girlfriend to drive you to work. It has nothing to do with wearing blue jeans and graphic shirts. Under that logic, there's some guys out there in their 50's, with wife/kids/home, who are still "adolescents".
Hey, I saw a toddler in a suit, does that mean he should run a business? Dress has NOTHING to do with maturity. Clothes don't make the man, they just cover them up so nobody has to see what's underneath.
Don't bash what you don't understand. Mark Driscoll is here to teach and grow MEN in the church, not a bunch of wussies. If you can't take his boldness, the internet comes with a little red bock in the upper right hand corner, not sure if you were aware but you don't have to watch this!
Acts talks about the church starting out in a setting not to much different from the 25 kids sharing a studio apartment and food who he makes fun of. How can you make fun of other people for being "consumers" when your wearing a 90 dollar Roar shirt.
Just because you feel passionately about God wanting the suburb dad lifestyle for you doesn't mean that he might have a plan contradicting yours for someone else. This sermon is a good example of why christianity feels so unloving, and propositional to so many guys.
We are supposed to reflect the image of God. God never had a wife or a stable job. He never made fun of someone who "road in on a bike". The bible says he had no place to rest his head, which is LESS than the 25 guys sharing a studio apartment and pizza that he makes fun of.
Actually, the very beginning of Genesis says "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." His main call to mankind was to be fruitful and multiply. The Godhead is a relational being...I would encourage you that imaging God as His image bearers is most effectively done in a man-woman relationship through the covenant of Marriage and bearing children. What men are doing is postponing God's call on them to accurately reflect this.
Granted, there are some men who are probably called to singleness...and I would want to celebrate that too. BUT, it does seem that many of men who are single are not in this category and I think you should really think about this.Submitting to God's calling in your life produces the greatest joys you could ever imagine. I used to think that when I got married that I'd lose my life. I've actually found it. And we have 4 kids! God has been so good to reveal His ways to me.
This is a horribly weak argument. You are claiming that our main call into life is to create progeny. Using this as a normative claim of our purpose in life reduces the efficacy of the work of Jesus. If you use this statement as the hermeneutic lens upon which you view the purpose of mankind, you neglect the importance of a life in relationship to God. As Christians, who believe in the importance of the Jesus, we need to apply a new lens upon the Old Testament scripture.
wrtobias, instead we need to apply the concept of Christian freedom in this case. We are free to take a wife or husband and procreate. The bible even justifies celibacy. Furthermore, a careful exegesis of "Be fruitful and multiply," shows that we need to first be fruitful, then multiply. And so on...
ok, so what are you doing to be fruitful? I don't deny the main calling we have in having a relationship with God. You are right to point that out...but I do have to say that when reviewing a lot of what Mark is saying that most of our culture has such an individualistic view of life that the Bible knows nothing of...christian freedom is normally spoken of as being careful to not cause someone else to stumble because they are weak in their faith. Hmm...it doesn't mean to 'lighten' God's call.
We are free to obey the law, free in adiaphora, free to offer up our gifts to God. This falls under the umbrella of adiaphora. It means we are free to do or not do "indifferent things." Claiming that "be fruitful and mulitply" is a normative commandment for Christian faith is quite faulty. Taking poetry and portraying it as authoritative prose is a grave error. Instead we are free to have children and enjoy a familial life.
Fruitful implies that you need to work on your character, the fruit of the spirit. Multiply, taken in a Christological viewpoint, also means to multiply faith, to go and spread the gospel. When we take the old testament as is and don't use the spectacles of scripture, as John Calvin would put it, we fail to be Christian. There would be no demarcation from rabbinic tradition and teachings.
When Pastor Mark refers to the 25 guys living in an apartment, he's talking about the attitude - and in that illustration the attitude is one of shirking responsibility rather than being a good steward.
i don't want to belabor my point, but look at this guy, with his head set mic and incomprehensible cursive liberally unbuttoned shirt, he's certainly a "mans man" fucking hypocrite, i'll pay attention when he posts his internet blogs in papyrus dressed in organic cotton robes
Maybe you get upset because he is talking about you...look the way you are writing, with the f word and everything....he is definitely talking about a little kid like you....show more respect please.
this is crap, I have to have an education and a carreer and a wife and children to be a man????? which one of those did jesus had? he had an education for sure, but not what is defined as "education in our society, and he was not married, and even though he was a carpenter, that is not what mattered, what mattered was his ministry... this is crap, this just sounds like someone trying to compensate
no that's not what he's saying. He's trying to point out the people who blindly go with no direction in their life. How many people do you know that work at sportchek and go to the bar at night with no real purpose?
What this guy is saying is you need to have a goal for your life. I am in thousands of dollars of debt, just out of high school, with no wife or anything, living at home, but I have a goal and a dream and I intend to follow through. That's what he's talking about.
i dont think he was saying a guy had to become a husband and or father to be one. He was saying to be a cultivator and a builder of the kingdom of God in whatever form...so, no u dont get to cop out.
@ 14:40. You know what you do, u look her in the eye, "Hi, I have a Bible, I have a job". Interested? no. Next! LOL
3VOLution3NO 2 days ago
I am an atheist and I agree with this message. I would also wonder if Pastor Mark would comment on girls who don't grow up to be women. For example, a girl who wants to divorce her husband not because he was abusive, or that he isn't providing a good home, but because she "isn't feeling it".
elzoog 2 weeks ago
If you happened upon this clip via my blog, thank you and I hope you enjoy this tid bit! It sure changed my life!
Darlinghollie 2 weeks ago
We are all beings of consumption.
jacobcake 2 weeks ago
@jacobcake
Yeah but if nobody is producing anything then how can we get stuff to consume?
elzoog 2 weeks ago
My eyes have been opened. O.O
It's time to be man.
TomHopeful 2 weeks ago
Yeah, I am a college student but I can't stand my dad. I really want out of my parents' home.
BritneyAddicted4EVA 1 month ago
I'm 21, living with parents who still think I'm their responsibility. I really want a job. Not just pray about it but actually do something and get the hell out of my parent's place.
BritneyAddicted4EVA 1 month ago
@BritneyAddicted4EVA - This is where I disagreed with Mark Driscoll mostly is just what you said. Sometimes circumstances keep us from moving on and becoming adults not just men. In my own case I have a below average IQ and I've been raped twice this year alone which has put me back not only emotionally but physically also. Does he expect people with multiple overbearing issues to just go out and take responsibility if they litterally can't or shouldn't?
Thenewfallingsacred 2 days ago
Helpful Mark..."no you are not a real man...you are an idiot...you are boy...you are a boy who can shave..." Come on! Its to easy to take it upon yourself to call out what is obviously apparent. Yay! And 23 minutes of it! Men...Read Wild At Heart by John Eldredge for some true help. God wants to father men today.
leapofberen 2 months ago
Mark makes fun of you because you're a joke <-- haha
jselvrom 4 months ago
When your mother dies when your 12, there is nothing to enjoy in "adolescence"
Ridikai 4 months ago
i wish Christian guys were bold enough!
ddfrisky 5 months ago
i might not agree with all what this guy preaches but he makes sense!
ddfrisky 5 months ago
Comment removed
ddfrisky 5 months ago
16 people, are boys
igitheman 5 months ago
This is a rant. 90% of this doesn't even come from scripture, so where does it come from? Secular values, I would say. Except for the part where women get blamed for enabling the immaturity of men; the bible does have a history of that.
movinbutnotshakin 6 months ago 2
Movinbutnotshakin, This might be because you haven't read even 30% of the bible. Not to mention this "rant" that you pointed out, seems to be about something (adolescence) that does not exist in biblical times. Also you might want to check out the women that he mentioned near the beginning of the video. They were some powerful influential women.
Snowmon89 5 months ago
I loved this message. I just have two thoughts. Sometimes its not the Mom who coddles the adolescent male. Sometimes its the Dad. Also, women get stuck in adolescence too! They can be just as self centered and self unaware as boys.
That being said, I'm stuck in a house w/2 grown adolescents who think they're in love because they're so good at playing video games together, meanwhile their children wonder why video games are more important than them.
I'd kick them out. Its my husband who won't.
bantyhenrants 6 months ago
Priceless? Its good advice in this vid buy it's also commen sense.folks need to think critically about consumerism AND religion including all things in life.personal development helps us all.research!
unitruth 6 months ago
I know this takes a bit of time - but find some time and watch this it really is worth seeing. Some excellant points being made here.
derekalder1 6 months ago
What a tool this guys is!!! He thinks he's so damn cool with his stupid shirt, his boy band face mic, and his faux hawk hair do. He also believes himself to be intelligent and analytical- which he is not.
howser12 6 months ago
@howser12 Yeah he's a real tool for calling out the realities of many, many young men in today's culture.
mattpwns93 6 months ago
@mattpwns93 Look at him. He dresses like an adolescent himself. "Doctor, heal thyself."
howser12 6 months ago
is the definition of a "Real" man, someone who lay's down his life for a friend? if I was to preach on a stage that which Pastor Mark did here, I would have had a head full of pain afterwards. I find this Judgemental, Proud, and over simplified at times. Men do like to run away from thing's and go and play games and hide, and sulk in their cave's that's what men do sometimes. Women are the one's that have courage and it's a mother that give's her son courage not the father!!!
opendtuning 6 months ago
@opendtuning 2. and usually in a marriage, it's the woman that wear's the trouser's. Women have the courage to go to church but a lot of guy's are freightened to go in...
opendtuning 6 months ago
I have done immense research into the bible,it has gospels that were omitted on purpose.Don't ever take anyone's word for it....do your own research....especially if you're going to base your life on a belief.Research it!RESEARCH,RESEARCH,RESEARCH.If you do not then you are just a follower. Make your own mind up....it's your right.
unitruth 7 months ago
@unitruth You obviously haven't researched it enough.How about the Hebrew bible that was canonized was done so before Jesus and then Jesus preached on it and about it's truth.That alone means it's profitable by God.How about all the prophetic things spoken that came true by Jesus.How about all the apocrypha that weren't accepted.Those were books that were written to emphasize the other scriptures that were already written. They just preached on the exact same things without any contradictions
jselvrom 4 months ago
@unitruth contradictions... accept dates and times of certain things that all the other books got correct thanks to historical science.Nothing in the apocrypha went against, or preached against God.They just emphasized him.They are very profitable in their reading.I encourage you to read them and see that they are okay.hey just weren't chosen to be placed in because the spirit of God oversaw the canonization of the bible and decided which were the scriptures that He divinely wrote.
jselvrom 4 months ago
good points and flawed points....consumerism is bad?look at his shirt.the right of boys into men has been around for millions(if your a fundamentalist thousands of years) of years.women do it too.its natural.video games are entertainment...not necessarily evil,I'd rather my child be at home safe playing video games then running the streets.he mixes science and religion....I can't trust that.Make your own mind up!
unitruth 7 months ago
@unitruth
It would be really sad if your judgment of this man, or Christianity on a whole, hindered you from seeing the priceless lesson that proceeded from this exhortation.
If a liar speaks the truth, does it make the truth a lie?
If your primary instinct is to judge the man and not embrace his words...you are of all critics to be most pitied.
I say this not to attack you but to move you to introspect.
He could have been in a diaper and bib, you cannot deny the truth in this message.
ricplay7890 6 months ago
8:58 "IT'S UNBELIEVABLE!!!" Like.. talking snakes? Zombies?
LookeAnthony 7 months ago
@LookeAnthony typical
RaiderJoe76 7 months ago
Thank you so much Mark and Mars Hill. I needed this so much. I'm 20 and this Fall semester I'm deciding my major in college and I've been a complainer and a coward about it. I've completely been an Evangellyfish. Its time that I be decisive and be a man about my future in Christ.
Peace.
darthnozo 7 months ago
Wow, this is truth
puccJUGEND 7 months ago
"Some of you say, 'well it's not a sin.' neither is eating your lawnmower. It's just dumb!"
threewhitetears 8 months ago 3
Exactly, it's a myth. That's why my song is called "And they Named it Adolescence."
desasterz 8 months ago
IT IS SO GOOD TO SEE AND HEAR A PASTOR WHO NOT A '' PUNK '' WHAT THIS MAN IS SAYING AND HOW HE IS SAYING REALLY NEEDS TO BE SAID , SICK OF COWARD , WEAK , TOO NICE AND SWEER HONEY PREACHING FOR PEOPLE TO CHANGE , TELL IT LIKE IT IS , THIS MAN YOU CAN'T FOOL
PEB979 8 months ago
2:10 "Le' me explain to you guys, how you been lied to"
He then goes on to lie; how ironic.
Responsibility is the key...however. There is almost certainly no god. To believe in god postpones the day you grow up and accept responsibility for your (one) life. Take responsibility for setting your own purpose is life. Take responsibility for working out your own code of ethics.
UrukEngineer 9 months ago
14 people are boys who can shave.
lukethreesix 9 months ago 8
"I have a bible, I have job, interested? No , NEXT!!" gotta try this one
trevor8930 10 months ago 4
@trevor8930 as a 16 year old Christian male, there is nothing sexier than a woman with a Bible and a greek concordance. :D
mastercheef12345 9 months ago 3
this guy is awesome
IplayCODallDAY 10 months ago
There might be a few guys that don't struggle with women or sex? But look in the bible, the worlds strongest man, the worlds godliest man and the worlds wisest man all had problems with women and sex! I don't think I am any better than these three men so I married a christian women and started a family.
cwduckhunter 10 months ago
jesus are you kidding you think jesus was looking for a girl.
jocomex 10 months ago
Love Busters: Overcoming the Habits that Destroy Romantic Love - great book for those called to be single as well as married. Even recommended (and non-judgmental) for couples that are not married. Replace Demands, Judgments, Outbursts, Lies, and Annoying, and Thoughtless Negligence with Good Negotiation Skills - Also deals with Career, Time, Children, and Friends/Relatives. Addiction, Infidelity. Build Love with Care and Time..
evolvinConstant1 10 months ago
Do people just watch a video or listen to a sermon and then when it strikes a nerve stop listening to the rest of it... great way to discern the truth in what someone has to say. Ears to hear... because he definitely said if God calls you to be single the sun is going to explode so go get married right now. I distinctly heard that. So it makes sense to keep bringing that up and whining about it. He most assuredly was not confronting the issue of immaturity in "men"...
drylandsnotamyth 10 months ago
good message, not best way of showing care and love.
sotacor 11 months ago
This guy is kinda annoying to watch... he talks in a way that makes it seem like no one else matter.. like if you ask him a question, he will not listen. That's the feeling I get. I also don't agree with most of what he says. There is nothing wrong with being single... it's actually admirable.
mangaanime3 11 months ago
@mangaanime3 I don't think he is saying it's bad to be single, it just happens that a majority of the "boys who can shave" are single
kjantzer 10 months ago
'Are you married? Do not seek a divorce. Are you unmarried? Do not look for a wife.'
Paul, 1 Cor 7:27. I didn't have time to listen to the end, just thought it was a relevant verse.
gypsycathunter 11 months ago
I believe that we are all individuals with our own paths in life to take. We are not all destined for the same things. Parenthood isn't for everybody.
PurpleShades1 11 months ago
Why do you have to get married, or be in a relationship? What's wrong with staying by yourself?
PurpleShades1 11 months ago
@PurpleShades1 Nothing at all. In Fact in 1 Corinthians 7, Paul discerns between singleness and the married life. Both being blessed, but your effectiveness for the Kingdom of God will be greater as a single man.
Pastor Mark is merely speaking to mans immaturity and how it's typically embraced rather than stepping up as a man in Christ.
It's just majority of people will easily be able to apply that to their own lives, and if not, the picture is clearly painted to see the meaning of the sermon.
leavintheus 10 months ago
this should have 68,000,000+ views.
awoyoshix 11 months ago 32
@awoyoshix let's make it happen ;)
lonewolf0017 7 months ago
I love Mark and he's right about a lot, but I think he sadly forgets the fact that some of the most mature and Godly men never "met a girl and got married"
example: oooohhhh say maybe like, Jesus? not to mention Paul.
Driscoll seems to be really ignorant and inconsiderate to the young single guys who are passionately pursuing Godliness and holiness in their freedom of their singleness. I'm one of em and am sick of the stupid man made pressures to get married.
Jesus is enough
LinkD3 1 year ago 3
@LinkD3 -- He also preaches in other sermons about these men who have the "gift of singleness", and talks about how Christ never met a wife etc . . . so actually you are the ignorant one for taking one sermon and assuming that is all Mark believes. . .
heythurman1432 10 months ago
@LinkD3
Jesus had more than whore... believe me, one of his good friend was
Nath20000 10 months ago
@LinkD3 Well, I would say this is a good observation. But to voice name calling towards his sermon cause he is bold enough to call out the 90% of males whom this is completely accurate... Id say that's a bit far.
Pastor Mark is obviously not directing this sermon towards that small group of individuals who choose to live single like Christ. So to bash on that, I have to disagree.
So to listen to this sermon in context, then to say ignorant or inconsiderate. Would be quite inaccurate. Personally
leavintheus 10 months ago
@leavintheus
I've listened to this entire sermon "in context" before and even visited Mars Hill and met Mark in person, and after which I feel even more strongly on the topic... Again, Driscoll's great, and biblically solid, but when 7 of my single friends who attended MH told me they felt outcast, alone, and unwelcomed by the slew of married couples at that church (despite repeatedly trying to connect) before finally leaving, then I would say there may be a problem...
LinkD3 10 months ago
Mark needs to take a look in the mirror before he charges others w/ an unnecessarily extended period of adolescence. Nice fauxhawk you have started there, princess.
Mises1759 1 year ago
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aweinsto 1 year ago
lol, I've watched several videos, and this guy is a pretty huge moron.
Valkyriefury 1 year ago
@Valkyriefury Why do you think that?
jrobfilms1 1 year ago
@jrobfilms1 Perfect example of sexist preaching. It's not enough that he's peddling an ancient, contradictory religion. But he's only happy if he simultaneously preaches outdated bigotry.
Valkyriefury 1 year ago
This has some pretty good points. I can dig it.
gamecubeclock 1 year ago
Idiocracy is before us
hyphymovement3579 1 year ago
I am loving this guy's videos :D
MrCharrrles 1 year ago 3
So basically...if you have an interest or a hobby, you're a fucking loser. Even if you make money and are doing a job that is essentially your dream job.
SPACET4RD 1 year ago
@SPACET4RD Not at all. He's pointing out how people can become lazy and unproductive. Ex. Playing video games isn't bad but it's not wise to play 10 or more hours a day. That's foolish.
livingstrong14 1 year ago
SO TRUE. Another Gem from Pastor Mark
powderhunter127 1 year ago
I'm 20 and I'm still in adolescence. I'm trying to become a man. a mature man at that. Jesus has changed my life.
AaronTrutsJC 1 year ago 37
@AaronTrutsJC
You're no man if you believe in silly fiction such as religious dogma.
CleverDjembe 1 year ago
@AaronTrutsJC never changed mine. never met him. been dead for 2000 years
summerfunteam 1 year ago
@AaronTrutsJC
same here bro ... exactly the same
ricplay7890 6 months ago
Wild at Heart by John Eldredge...
leapofberen 2 months ago
a girl -man,that wants to be a boy forever ...lol
senichka09 1 year ago
I could be bias, he is talking about my age group, but it was a tad bit over-the-top with opinions. Then again, this is the teaching style of Driscoll." A man is a cultivator and producer." Sweet quote, great points, I'm just rubbed wrong by the delivery.
michaeldavonmcintosh 1 year ago
Great Teaching
Mr4Jesus 1 year ago
This is amazing!
OreoSoleil 1 year ago
Why at around 21:30 does he start talking about Salvation?
I thought he said in the 19th minute that he was talking this whole time about born-again Christian males that make foolish decisions.
So why would they need to be saved if they already were?
Swifted17 1 year ago
@Swifted17 Because the audience of his church is made up of both Christians and non-Christians
christopherfrost 1 year ago
When someone believes they have a "new" teaching from the Bible it's usually Heresy. This is NOT a new teaching. It's a teaching that has been neglected for decades. Test it against scripture, if it stands then it is a Biblical teaching.
AcaiBunch 1 year ago
then he does not truly love his wife/family/girlfriend because he should want to provide for them and be the best person he can possibly be for them.
dbardeleben 1 year ago
ok first off i dont think he is telling anyone to break up with anyone. he is saying that there are some people who need to change their mind sets towards life. There are a lot of people who have no aspirations. And if a husband/boyfriend watever is not providing for his wife like the bible says he should (not including people who have been laid off and that kind of thing and truly try to provide for their family)
dbardeleben 1 year ago
Adolescence (teenager) is an invented word in the 1950s when children grew up without adults when both parents of a child was working and not present at home to raise them. Therefore, children grew up by themselves without adults creating their own world, where adults could no longer relate to them - adolescence. "It takes an adult to raise an adult" - Dr. Chap Clark. I believe solving adolescence is not going to be done just on the pulpit, but adults need to start reconnecting with youths today
hapd87 1 year ago
I. love. this. guy. BAM! Right on!
farleylives 1 year ago
All six are there over my two posts. And I don't agree with your asertion. you haven't answered my original reasons for disagreeing with his "unpacking" this verse of scripture. As someone who has been trained in hermeneutics, I went to Carson for my support primarily because his text is a gold standard. Deal with the text.
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 1 year ago
my response below was to
mwheeland87 below.
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 1 year ago
cont...
It meets the need for relevance without letting the clamor for relevance dictate the message.
It forces the preacher to handle the tough questions.
It allows the preacher to expound systematically the whole counsel of God.
this will be my last post, but mark threw most of these principles out during this rant.
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 1 year ago
a lot of good points, but he generalizes all 'nonmen' as those who stay up late playing video games, porn addicts, and bingers. not saying that there aren't guys like that out there, more so that there are other variants to what a 'nonman' is.
good points, just overall incomplete.
shadytp 2 years ago 2
those are examples of the issue he's talking of.
The Simple principle is that when Adult Males become mentally stuck in teenage/childish mindset they show these characteristics and many other variants that i'm sure u can list
veranasti 1 year ago
This man is the best expempel of a true american christian. Im very impressed. Very.
5 star. Glory To God and to true man who don´t live like children.
Combat242 2 years ago 2
@Combat242
You and anybody else who needs "The Big Man in the Sky" to guide their lives and give the hope and consolance is NOT. A. MAN., because a man is completely self-empowered and self-directed.
CleverDjembe 1 year ago
@CleverDjembe i feel sorry for you. you have believed the biggest lie in the world, that you're the most important thing in the universe. its not about blind obedience. its about obedience to the Lord of all creation. if you dislike Christianity and what it teaches then why waste your time watching videos about it. why not go to your job, or play your xbox and stop trying to ruin peoples lives with your pathetic excuse for secular dogma.
scarylampman 1 year ago
lol
CleverDjembe 1 year ago
Comment removed
UsernameIsVeryLong 3 weeks ago
Why is this low-church preacher dressed like a man-child?
maxhork 2 years ago
I agree. He wears jeans and a shirt like the ones I wore when I was 16 - not very professional dress for someone preaching about maturity. I agree with most of what he says, but he is wrong to encourage people to break up. Breaking up is always sinful because it destroys the relationship that God has created. Also, badgering women who help their boyfriends is also wrong, because the Bible encourages us to help the poor and downtrotten.
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
breaking up is sin? whoever told you that should get a beating.
anonazero 1 year ago
Breaking up is definitely sinful because God has a hand in creating relationships and they exist for His glory rather than for our benefit. Therefore, to destroy what God has created is a sin. Jesus said that the only grounds for ending romantic relationship was infidelity. That doesn't just apply to married couples - It also applies to the premarital period. You don't date someone you intend to marry, and you cannot break up unless there is unfaithfulness. Encouraging break ups is a sinful
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice Matthew 19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.
he is clearly talking about marriage. reading the whole passage makes it even more clear. please do not twist scripture.
marriage is a covenant. you're a crazy person if you think you should marry the first person you take to ihop.
anonazero 1 year ago
There is no difference between a marital and a premarital relationship, except there is no public promise of faithfulness, and there is no sexual contact allowed. Breaking up is therefore no difference than divorce, and is a sin unless there is infidelity.
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice WHAT?! so basically you're saying that as soon as someone agrees to date you two of you should get married because having a divorce is the same thing as breaking up so you might as well get laid in the process.
really, whoever taught you that oughta get beat.
anonazero 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice and another thing THATS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS! you're ADDING TO scripture. stop it please. thats crazy.
anonazero 1 year ago
Just because something isn't the Bible, that does make it right. The Bible doesn't explicitly condemn abortion, but abortion is wrong because it violates clear Christian principles. Breaking up isn't explicitly condemned in the Bible, but it clearly violates Christian principles, and that is why it is wrong. I am not adding to the Bible - I am applying Biblical principles to a modern day culture.
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice ...you're a crazy person with some seriously jacked up theology. again, whoever is teaching stuff like that needs to read the bible.
anonazero 1 year ago
Within America and a few other Western nations it is normal to break up with someone. But in many parts of the world, perhaps most of the world, you are expected to marry your first love, and to break up is considered almost as wrong as divorce. It is only because of a sinful western culture that you have been de-sensitized to the sin of breaking up.
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice so in your mind courting is the same as marrying someone?
so in your mind courting, dating, and wooing don't exist. you should just go aroujnd asking girls that you like if they will marry you.
good luck with that.
anonazero 1 year ago
To me, you sound just like the religious leaders in the day of Jesus. They wanted to follow the law, but they only did the minimum and felt self righteous. Instead of sticking to the minimum standard, we need to do all we can to demonstrate our love for Jesus and our love for others. It isn't enough to just avoid divorce; we must love so intensely that breaking up is not an option.
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice actually christ made fun of the pharisees for taking smaller parts of the law to extremes, not doing the minimum, while neglecting weightier matters of the law like justice and mercy.
ya know, kind of like saying that breaking up with someone when it isn't working out is the same as divorce.
anonazero 1 year ago
If you love someone, you would never break up with someone (unless there was infidelity), and loving other people is a sign that the Holy Spirit is in your life. Therefore if you break up with someone, that is a sin. God doesn't abandon us so why should we abandon other people by breaking up with them. Is that love?
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice you obviously know nothing about love, relationships, and what it means to do right by someone that you care about.
you're of the ridiculous mindset that you should marry the first person that agrees to date you no matter how much you dont get along, mesh, or how awkward it is. that is insane, immature, and unbiblical to say the least.
anonazero 1 year ago
YOu are obviously too immature to understand what true love is.
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice funny, i was thinking the same about you.
experience and logic trump your horribly flawed argument. oh yeah, then there's scripture.
anonazero 1 year ago
In America, probably the most sinful country in the world, you have become desensitized to the wickedness of breaking up with someone. America is a throw away society - they throw away marriages, relationships, unborn children, and pretty much everything else. That is why you don't realize what a wicked sin it is to break up with someone. Throw away your American ideals and start actually living according to the Bible.
MYpineapplejuice 1 year ago
@MYpineapplejuice Preach
Mr4Jesus 1 year ago
Funny, but I don't remember Jesus calling anyone a "loser." I believe this sermon would have been better off spoken to a young men's group or in a men's conference. For Pastor Driscoll to extract this topic out of Luke 1:80 is a severe stretch.
I think Pastor Driscoll means well, but getting up on his soapbox, talking down to, and berating men for 16 minutes straight probably won't inspire those men to do anything but punch him in the mouth.
Terrible sermon sample, awful humor, not cute...
cschott64 2 years ago
sounds like someone doesn't want to be told they are doing something wrong. My initial reaction to this was "wow, I need to push myself to become a man of God", it seems like your reaction is to nitpick at his language instead of the point: men are not taking responsibility for their own lives and working toward their mission for Christ. Take it for what it was meant and if you disagree, feel free not to listen. No need to bug others with your negativity.
blackhawk1491 2 years ago
Wow. I guess you showed me. Go back and read my comments again. Where did I write that I didn't agree with the premise of the sermon? I didn't like the delivery. Do you know how many young people leave the church because of this approach? Good for you that you felt inspired. But you're already saved. For those that are not saved, the goal is showing them the love of Jesus, not sarcastic condescension. Again, would Jesus be calling these guys "losers?" Next time, please think before you write.
cschott64 2 years ago
"Terrible sermon sample, awful humor, not cute..."
Might want to take your own advice (think before you write) there... either I misunderstood you or (and this seems more likely) you wrote poorly, if you indeed intended no disdain towards him or his sermon. You made one neutral point on his sermon and three distinctly negative points on it, with two that had some negativity and some neutrality in them. Sorry for taking that as generally negative...
blackhawk1491 2 years ago
I TALKED ABOUT HIS USE OF SARCASM AND CONDESCENSION AND IT'S POTENTIAL EFFECTS ON THE ROOT MESSAGE! But you've failed to pay attention once again because you're so bent on winning a YouTube argument. You'd rather split hairs and insist you're right than let me have my own opinion. One more time, in my opinion, Pastor Driscoll is being a TERRIBLE ambassador for Christ for the first 16 minutes of this video. My final word on this topic is aimed directly at you: Stop letting pride get in your way.
cschott64 2 years ago
Fallacy of argument 1: You are claiming knowledge of my intention rather than the raw evidence: what I wrote.
#2: I wrote "it seems like your reaction is to nitpick at his language instead of the point..." and now you are telling me "You'd rather split hairs and insist you're right than let me have my own opinion".
You are not only IGNORING what I said, but you are then taking one of the things I had a problem with and claiming I'm the one doing it. Opinion =/= complaint, I didn't say...
blackhawk1491 2 years ago
... that you weren't entitled to your own opinion, I said that your complaint just seemed to me to be nitpicking or "splitting hairs" rather than actually having a problem with the main message, which you've now said you don't disagree with. I could care less about an argument on Youtube, and as to pride... I have it. I am human and imperfect. But I would say to you sir, remove the plank from your eye before the splinter from mine.
blackhawk1491 2 years ago
@cschott64 you strain at a nat and swallow a camel.
anonazero 1 year ago
@cschott64 i suppose he should bribe them with treats. maybe a couple waterfalls and giant spinning globe would make them feel more comfortable.
there is a time to be harsh and a time to be gentle. little boys pretending to be men rarely (if ever) should get that courtesy IMO.
anonazero 1 year ago
@cschott64 ght, he just called them hypocrites, vipers, sons of the devil, the devil, and hurled a variety of other caustic dialogue to the wolves.
you dont feed wolves, you shoot em.
anonazero 1 year ago
It takes a man to preach like that.
JarlEadwulf 2 years ago
This is a fine example of a pastor putting something into the text of God's Word that clearly is not in the text he is supposed to be exegeting (sp?) It does not matter if what he says is true or you agree with it, the text says nothing (or even implies) anything about our cultural understanding of adolescence. Even good pastors can get off track if they let their personal experience get in the way of properly expounding on what the text at hand is teaching us.
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 2 years ago
@SPINEANDSPORTDOC
I do agree to some extent Pastor Mark exposited a passage that had nothing to do with the denotation of the word 'adolescence,' but I think he was talking more so the connotative meanings and their cultural reflections as many people see it.
Also, if Pastor Mark wasn't preaching exegetically, then by definition he would be preaching isogetically. I couldn't imagine, however, how anyone could come up with a case that Pastor Mark is corrupting the text through isogesis.
mwahaha91 2 years ago
First, thanks for the kind reply. A lot of people wouldn't have the grace that you did in your response, so thanks!
But I still have to disagree with you. My argument has nothing to do with the semantics of the text, but rather that there is no support from the text (denotative or connotatively) for his 20+ minute rant. So, if the shoe fits, in this case, he is doing an injustice to the text at hand (he even states that a lot of commentators don't say a lot about this verse.)
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 2 years ago
Also, because I see a few people don't like what I have stated, to support my case, I'll go to one of the big guns: D.A. Carson-one of mark's guys. In Exegetical Fallacies, Dr. Don notes the logical fallacie of Unwarrented associative jumps on page 115 (2nd ed.), "...(this) occurs when a word or PHRASE triggers off an associated idea, concept, or experience THAT BEARS NO CLOSE RELATION TO THE TEXT AT HAND, yet is used to interpret the text." (emphasis mine)
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 2 years ago
Cont..."this error is shockingly easy to commit in textual preaching, overlooking the old adage that a text without a context becomes a pretext for a prooftext."
To be sure, a lot of mark's preaching/teaching is great (esp. the rebel's guide to joy and pray like Jesus!) But he needs to stop doing this (and he falls prey to it at times.)
Lastly, i didn't post the Carson quote as a lame appeal to authority. Mark respects him tremendously (as he should) and he has taught at MHC a few times.
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 2 years ago
in preaching, there is exegesis of the text AND exegesis of the culture. without the latter, application and life change for the hearer cannot take place.
mwheeland87 2 years ago
Pastor mark is not above criticism, and I would challenge you to find me one example (Biblical) where life change (sanctification or new birth) comes from cultural exegesis. Again, I turn to D.A. Carson: there are six reasons not to abandon expository preaching...
It is the method least likely to stray from Scripture.
It teaches people how to read their Bibles.
It gives confidence to the preacher and authorizes the sermon.
SPINEANDSPORTDOC 1 year ago
by studying culture a preacher informs a person of how to correctly apply Scripture to their life. for example, without studying culture, you would not understand how to dress with purity under the principle of modesty. So, a girl learns not to wear super high skirts by the pastor telling her the bible teaches modesty. in other words, without cultural study, all you give in preaching is principles without specific application.
ps: you only named 3.
mwheeland87 1 year ago
While I agree, and think people need to stop reading into text, I think here he's saying "look how insignificant it was that he just became a man... in that day it was expected" and building his sermon from that. In other words, I don't think he's trying to claim the Bible says all that about adolescence, but rather that a biblical man of valor (and he implies ALL or most are the same) simply did not consider anything BUT taking their lives and being responsible with them.
blackhawk1491 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
RobertBaral365 2 years ago
Ha. He loves men.
matthewkeri12345 2 years ago
"You Have No Game At All"
Ahh what a glorious message.
BlueLeaderSRT 2 years ago
"...how much meat you can push through your colon.."
awesome.
BlueLeaderSRT 2 years ago
"I Have a bible, I have a job... Interested? No. Next!" "Mark makes fun of you because you're a joke!"
"It's not a sin! Neither is eating your lawn mower! It's just dumb!"
Hilarious =D
SirGollahon 2 years ago 24
I love how this guy talks about avoiding adolescence in his faded jeans and graphic shirt.
ransom1011 2 years ago
i am not in support of this guy, but this is still a fairly petty grasp for irony. the guy equated adolescence to things like living with your parents at age 20 and needing a girlfriend to drive you to work. It has nothing to do with wearing blue jeans and graphic shirts. Under that logic, there's some guys out there in their 50's, with wife/kids/home, who are still "adolescents".
truthemulator 2 years ago
Hey, I saw a toddler in a suit, does that mean he should run a business? Dress has NOTHING to do with maturity. Clothes don't make the man, they just cover them up so nobody has to see what's underneath.
bassplayern8 2 years ago
What does that have to do with adolescence? You're a joke.
RAIDERJO76 2 years ago
Don't bash what you don't understand. Mark Driscoll is here to teach and grow MEN in the church, not a bunch of wussies. If you can't take his boldness, the internet comes with a little red bock in the upper right hand corner, not sure if you were aware but you don't have to watch this!
ah1608 2 years ago
And you're a SPAMMMMMMMER!
EPTechCompany 2 years ago
So true.
"Girls want a man with a well-employed mother. That's her hope. Her aspiration!"
and
"Turn in a circle, at any point stop, and there's one."
and
"It's not a sin, it's just dumb! It's just dumb."
Love it.
TheGidgetMidget 2 years ago
Alguém poderia colocar uma legenda em Portugues nesse vídeo, por favor?!
Obrigada...
"Someone could put a caption in Portuguese in this video, please?!
Thank ..."
jolierod 2 years ago
Comment removed
VirtueandTruth 2 years ago
Yeah, adolescence is bullshit.
adambomb312 2 years ago 2
I agree with the being bold part but....
Acts talks about the church starting out in a setting not to much different from the 25 kids sharing a studio apartment and food who he makes fun of. How can you make fun of other people for being "consumers" when your wearing a 90 dollar Roar shirt.
SmallSpark27 2 years ago
well why did he buy the roar shirt, because he wants to "be a man" or just to buy a cool shirt?
vaultaddict205 2 years ago
Just because you feel passionately about God wanting the suburb dad lifestyle for you doesn't mean that he might have a plan contradicting yours for someone else. This sermon is a good example of why christianity feels so unloving, and propositional to so many guys.
SmallSpark27 2 years ago
We are supposed to reflect the image of God. God never had a wife or a stable job. He never made fun of someone who "road in on a bike". The bible says he had no place to rest his head, which is LESS than the 25 guys sharing a studio apartment and pizza that he makes fun of.
SmallSpark27 2 years ago
Actually, the very beginning of Genesis says "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." His main call to mankind was to be fruitful and multiply. The Godhead is a relational being...I would encourage you that imaging God as His image bearers is most effectively done in a man-woman relationship through the covenant of Marriage and bearing children. What men are doing is postponing God's call on them to accurately reflect this.
wrtobias 2 years ago
Granted, there are some men who are probably called to singleness...and I would want to celebrate that too. BUT, it does seem that many of men who are single are not in this category and I think you should really think about this.Submitting to God's calling in your life produces the greatest joys you could ever imagine. I used to think that when I got married that I'd lose my life. I've actually found it. And we have 4 kids! God has been so good to reveal His ways to me.
wrtobias 2 years ago
This is a horribly weak argument. You are claiming that our main call into life is to create progeny. Using this as a normative claim of our purpose in life reduces the efficacy of the work of Jesus. If you use this statement as the hermeneutic lens upon which you view the purpose of mankind, you neglect the importance of a life in relationship to God. As Christians, who believe in the importance of the Jesus, we need to apply a new lens upon the Old Testament scripture.
haitsjesse 2 years ago
wrtobias, instead we need to apply the concept of Christian freedom in this case. We are free to take a wife or husband and procreate. The bible even justifies celibacy. Furthermore, a careful exegesis of "Be fruitful and multiply," shows that we need to first be fruitful, then multiply. And so on...
haitsjesse 2 years ago
ok, so what are you doing to be fruitful? I don't deny the main calling we have in having a relationship with God. You are right to point that out...but I do have to say that when reviewing a lot of what Mark is saying that most of our culture has such an individualistic view of life that the Bible knows nothing of...christian freedom is normally spoken of as being careful to not cause someone else to stumble because they are weak in their faith. Hmm...it doesn't mean to 'lighten' God's call.
wrtobias 2 years ago
We are free to obey the law, free in adiaphora, free to offer up our gifts to God. This falls under the umbrella of adiaphora. It means we are free to do or not do "indifferent things." Claiming that "be fruitful and mulitply" is a normative commandment for Christian faith is quite faulty. Taking poetry and portraying it as authoritative prose is a grave error. Instead we are free to have children and enjoy a familial life.
haitsjesse 2 years ago
Fruitful implies that you need to work on your character, the fruit of the spirit. Multiply, taken in a Christological viewpoint, also means to multiply faith, to go and spread the gospel. When we take the old testament as is and don't use the spectacles of scripture, as John Calvin would put it, we fail to be Christian. There would be no demarcation from rabbinic tradition and teachings.
haitsjesse 2 years ago
When Pastor Mark refers to the 25 guys living in an apartment, he's talking about the attitude - and in that illustration the attitude is one of shirking responsibility rather than being a good steward.
VirtueandTruth 2 years ago
11:37 is hilarious.
GaaraBabyEater 2 years ago
Very powerful word... and it that hurts
viuksmp 2 years ago
i don't want to belabor my point, but look at this guy, with his head set mic and incomprehensible cursive liberally unbuttoned shirt, he's certainly a "mans man" fucking hypocrite, i'll pay attention when he posts his internet blogs in papyrus dressed in organic cotton robes
punchachristian1 2 years ago
Maybe you get upset because he is talking about you...look the way you are writing, with the f word and everything....he is definitely talking about a little kid like you....show more respect please.
lvillalobos 2 years ago 8
this is crap, I have to have an education and a carreer and a wife and children to be a man????? which one of those did jesus had? he had an education for sure, but not what is defined as "education in our society, and he was not married, and even though he was a carpenter, that is not what mattered, what mattered was his ministry... this is crap, this just sounds like someone trying to compensate
SwordValiant 2 years ago
you don't understand his point. watch more of his video and you'll see
thnguyen24 2 years ago 2
no that's not what he's saying. He's trying to point out the people who blindly go with no direction in their life. How many people do you know that work at sportchek and go to the bar at night with no real purpose?
What this guy is saying is you need to have a goal for your life. I am in thousands of dollars of debt, just out of high school, with no wife or anything, living at home, but I have a goal and a dream and I intend to follow through. That's what he's talking about.
EveningsGlory 2 years ago
i dont think he was saying a guy had to become a husband and or father to be one. He was saying to be a cultivator and a builder of the kingdom of God in whatever form...so, no u dont get to cop out.
aburningpromise 2 years ago