@sqhschief~ I find it hard to believe that all those guys are wrong on the issue. Maybe its me and you that are missing something. Gasoline has more energy than Ethanol *PER VOLUME* (thats key). Like i said... i would be amazed that all these guys would be wrong on something as simple as this. I mean.... they developed a new product based on that notion (that ethanol burns hotter than gasoline).
The mis-statement was from a salesman who didn't know much about fires and fuels, but does love to talk. The main point is that ethanol is a bugger to extinguish (which I don't think we'll get too much argument there), and Cold Fire helps extinguish it faster.
@coldfireus~ and could u explain to me WHY Ethanol is harder to extinguish than a liquid Hydro-Carbon??
I thought burning alcohol was easier to extinguish than gasoline because it absorbs the water. Where as Gasoline, Diesel... etc is just simply moved around by the water. Even from my personal experience it was easier to extinguish a pool of alcohol than a pool of Gasoline. So as u can see, im a little confusion.
@marek0086 - Ethanol is harder to extinguish with standard foams because the alcohol eats the foam faster than the foam can create a seal to smother the fire. AR-AFFF has certain alcohol resistant polymers than counteract it, but Cold Fire make a good enough foam to seal, as well as cools the source below ignition point.
@sqhschief~ But im confused yet again, because in the champ-car (indy car) series they would have a lot of water on standby in case of a fuel fire. And the fuel was Methanol, which is alcohol just like Ethanol.... and alcohol absorbs water which means water DILUTES alcohol. And iv always been told water is the best thing to use for an alcohol fire. So im even more confused now.
@marek0086 That's definitely confusing, but I was going on ethanol burning temperature inside a combustion engine when compared to gasoline. In that case it's cooler, and I know that.
@marek0086 What I've found is that gasoline has 47 kilojoules per gram (heat) and ethanol has 29.7 kilojoules per gram (heat). That is the same thing as temperature so I think we are right. Everything I've read says ethanol is a cooler burning fuel. I suppose the easiest way is to get a high temp. thermometer and pour some gasoline and some 190 proof everclear liquor in two separate containers and light them and measure the temp.
@sqhschief~ haha.... well i dont have a high temp thermometer. Some guy said that theres more to cylinder pressure than just heat, when it comes to Ethanol. Like he was saying it has a different combustion process than a hydro-carbon fuel (eg. Gasoline). I always thought the *pressure* (the amount of force pushing down on the piston) was DIRECTLY linked to HEAT. Im only entertaining his notion because this guy was right about everything else he said. So i dont know.
@marek0086 1of2 Hmm, I would have thought that too. But I think in an internal combustion engine, like you were talking about, it would be all about what fuel has more energy (joules) per volume. Which, like you said, would be directly linked to heat. For example, gasoline has X amount of energy per volume, and diesel has Y of energy per volume (Y>X) because diesel has more energy per volume (HEAT). That is PART of the reason diesel engines get better mileage and are more efficient.
@marek0086 2of2 So, basically in a diesel engine it takes less volume of diesel for the engine to produce the same result as a gasoline engine. Now I know ethanol in an engine causes the engine to get worse MPG due to the fact that it has less energy per volume compared to gasoline, so basically it takes more of it to do the same job. Less energy per volume, less joules or btu per volume. Less heat is what that means. That's my understanding of it anyway. Very interesting to think about, haha.
I think the "Cold Fire would have prevented that" quote was in reference to the comment before that about the firefighters having to let the fire burn its self out
Granted. The statements didn't match the video. Cold FIre wouldn't have prevented anything at the Luther fire, but they would have been able to put the fire out much faster. But that's the chance you take when working with the media. You just hope they spell the name correctly.
Ethanol does not burn hotter than gasoline.
sqhschief 1 year ago
@sqhschief~ ye thats what i thought because Gasoline has MORE thermal energy (BTU's) per volume than Ethanol.
marek0086 8 months ago
@marek0086 Exactly, what a bunch of retards.
sqhschief 8 months ago
@sqhschief~ I find it hard to believe that all those guys are wrong on the issue. Maybe its me and you that are missing something. Gasoline has more energy than Ethanol *PER VOLUME* (thats key). Like i said... i would be amazed that all these guys would be wrong on something as simple as this. I mean.... they developed a new product based on that notion (that ethanol burns hotter than gasoline).
marek0086 8 months ago
The mis-statement was from a salesman who didn't know much about fires and fuels, but does love to talk. The main point is that ethanol is a bugger to extinguish (which I don't think we'll get too much argument there), and Cold Fire helps extinguish it faster.
coldfireus 8 months ago
@coldfireus~ So whats the truth?.... does Ethanol burn hotter or colder than Gasoline??
marek0086 8 months ago
@coldfireus~ and could u explain to me WHY Ethanol is harder to extinguish than a liquid Hydro-Carbon??
I thought burning alcohol was easier to extinguish than gasoline because it absorbs the water. Where as Gasoline, Diesel... etc is just simply moved around by the water. Even from my personal experience it was easier to extinguish a pool of alcohol than a pool of Gasoline. So as u can see, im a little confusion.
marek0086 8 months ago
@marek0086 - Ethanol is harder to extinguish with standard foams because the alcohol eats the foam faster than the foam can create a seal to smother the fire. AR-AFFF has certain alcohol resistant polymers than counteract it, but Cold Fire make a good enough foam to seal, as well as cools the source below ignition point.
rdrtech3 8 months ago
@sqhschief~ But im confused yet again, because in the champ-car (indy car) series they would have a lot of water on standby in case of a fuel fire. And the fuel was Methanol, which is alcohol just like Ethanol.... and alcohol absorbs water which means water DILUTES alcohol. And iv always been told water is the best thing to use for an alcohol fire. So im even more confused now.
marek0086 8 months ago
@marek0086 Haha, I don't know, but I do know that ethanol burns cooler than gasoline definitely.
sqhschief 8 months ago
@sqhschief~ Well i just read that Ethanol burns hotter.
marek0086 8 months ago
@sqhschief~ i was wrong.... Ethanol has more BTU's but less Joules per volume compared to Gasoline.
Which sounds totally contradictory!.... not as simple as i thought.
marek0086 8 months ago
@marek0086 That's definitely confusing, but I was going on ethanol burning temperature inside a combustion engine when compared to gasoline. In that case it's cooler, and I know that.
sqhschief 8 months ago
@sqhschief~ so in an internal combustion engine the flame is cooler.... but in open atmosphere the flame is hotter??
marek0086 8 months ago
@marek0086 What I've found is that gasoline has 47 kilojoules per gram (heat) and ethanol has 29.7 kilojoules per gram (heat). That is the same thing as temperature so I think we are right. Everything I've read says ethanol is a cooler burning fuel. I suppose the easiest way is to get a high temp. thermometer and pour some gasoline and some 190 proof everclear liquor in two separate containers and light them and measure the temp.
sqhschief 8 months ago
@sqhschief~ haha.... well i dont have a high temp thermometer. Some guy said that theres more to cylinder pressure than just heat, when it comes to Ethanol. Like he was saying it has a different combustion process than a hydro-carbon fuel (eg. Gasoline). I always thought the *pressure* (the amount of force pushing down on the piston) was DIRECTLY linked to HEAT. Im only entertaining his notion because this guy was right about everything else he said. So i dont know.
marek0086 8 months ago
@marek0086 1of2 Hmm, I would have thought that too. But I think in an internal combustion engine, like you were talking about, it would be all about what fuel has more energy (joules) per volume. Which, like you said, would be directly linked to heat. For example, gasoline has X amount of energy per volume, and diesel has Y of energy per volume (Y>X) because diesel has more energy per volume (HEAT). That is PART of the reason diesel engines get better mileage and are more efficient.
sqhschief 8 months ago
@marek0086 2of2 So, basically in a diesel engine it takes less volume of diesel for the engine to produce the same result as a gasoline engine. Now I know ethanol in an engine causes the engine to get worse MPG due to the fact that it has less energy per volume compared to gasoline, so basically it takes more of it to do the same job. Less energy per volume, less joules or btu per volume. Less heat is what that means. That's my understanding of it anyway. Very interesting to think about, haha.
sqhschief 8 months ago
I think the "Cold Fire would have prevented that" quote was in reference to the comment before that about the firefighters having to let the fire burn its self out
CoolDre80 1 year ago
I have never seen so many miss statements in my life. Cold fire would not have "prevented" anything on the ethanol fire in Oklahoma.
notafraidoffuture 3 years ago
Granted. The statements didn't match the video. Cold FIre wouldn't have prevented anything at the Luther fire, but they would have been able to put the fire out much faster. But that's the chance you take when working with the media. You just hope they spell the name correctly.
coldfireus 3 years ago
@coldfireus~ ye, excuse me, but do u guys even know what you're talking about??
Ethanol has LESS thermal energy than Gasoline. Which means Ethanol burns COOLER.... doesnt it?
marek0086 8 months ago