Christopher Hitchens vs Scott Ritter Debate 12/20/2006

[pcdonahue]

When the Invasion of Iraq went down I was definitely thinking along the lines of Ritter but becoming a Hitchens fan in the past couple of years, he's argument is just too convincing and one you that's awfully hard to refute in any moral sense.

[darnmarr]

Thank you for this.

[Mrsiepel]

Didnt this Ritter guy get busted for jerking off to little girls?

[capomatrice]

@Mrsiepel holy @#$% you're right

[Faerlon123]

War is not something I want. War is not a good thing. But sometimes war is nessescary. Sometimes, war is how you fight for a better world. Sometimes war is not a good idea, because it costs so many lives and resources. Iraq was America's mess. Iraq was America's responsibility. America owed something to the people of Iraq. They put Saddam there, without knowing what would happen. Now there are other problems there. That also need fixing. But at least it's no longer a fascist dictatorship.

[LucaEnzo]

The left geer and boo and make animal noises at the Iraqis that have and run their own show.

Ritter is a bully.

[LueTm]

@hexag1 is the Q&A somewhere too? Usually was very interesting with Hitch.

[jrm21386]

Scott Ritter is pedophile. Look it up.

[LueTm]

@jrm21386 sadly doesn't change if he's right or wrong.

[MattSingh1]

@LueTm It certainly does if he (Ritter) rests his case on the intervention in Iraq being immoral and illegal...

[LueTm]

@MattSingh1 I disagree. His blatant hypocrisy doesn't change the weight of his arguments.

[MattSingh1]

@LueTm I suggest you re-read my response. Also, I think his (Ritter's) argument was faux, and in fact, total junk.

[LueTm]

@MattSingh1 That's not what I mean. He could be a total hypocrit, but he could still be right (for different reasons). When it comes to that topic, I am very torn between the Ron Paul view and the Hitchens view (too bad we'll never see that debate). It is especially problematic when the nation that wants to control nuclear weapons technology is the only one that has used in a war against the civil population of it's enemy.

[MattSingh1]

@LueTm On

On Ron Paul, I honestly cannot stand his policies, and his supporters seem to be nothing but sycophants. On your last point, I disagree with you notion that those at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were innocent civilians; the vast, vast majority of Japanese during the Second World War believed Emperor Hirohito to be semi-divine, at least, with the vast majority of the population pledging their life to him. I have no qualms about dropping any sort of bomb on that strain of totalitarianism.

[LueTm]

@MattSingh1 This is wrong on so many levels.I agree about RP, but nukeing innocent civilians is just wrong. Would it be OK to nuke North Korea too? Because lots of people supported Kim Jon Il. Maybe they do, but because they either can't speak out without being arrested or just don't know of anything else.

[MattSingh1]

@LueTm But sir, did I not explain that the vast majority, if not all, of Japanese civilians not only backed their Emperor, but actually pledged their lives to him via suicide if necessary. To compare and conflate Imperialist Japan and modern-day North Korea is considerably off-target; the people of North Korea are clearly slaves in their own land, whereas Japanese people during the rule of Hirohito were willing to give their lives for the bloated despot. The people of North Korea have no choice.

[LueTm]

@MattSingh1 You clearly do not understand Japanese culture during that time. Read the Wikipedia article about "Kamikaze" or/and "Shinto". But lets pretend it wasn't like that: Even if they supported their emperor doesn't mean that you can just mass-slaughter them, contaminate their land so that generations after children with deformed bodies and illnesses are born. In your world: US attacked Irak because you didn't agree with them, lots of americans supported that: nuke Detroit &NY!

[MattSingh1]

@LueTm "You clearly do not understand Japanese culture during that time." (1) I appear to have a far superior understanding of it than you sir, as you are actually debating whether or not most, if not all, Japanese pledged their lives to Hirohito. (2) From your 'mass-slaughter' notion, I see you're yet another body-bag peace-movement extreme leftist, who doesn't know an enemy when they see one. I indeed support the intervention in Iraq, because I believe in human solidarity... (cont)

[MattSingh1]

@LueTm (cont)...and supporting the struggle of people to have a secular, pluralist democracy. I have to say, I find it hard to muster any sympathy for an enemy that would kill us in a heartbeat just because we don’t think like they do, or want to live like they do. If you’re willing to second-guess fighting theocratic Fascism, you’re carrying their water for them. In regard to ‘deformed bodies’, that’s emotional piffle on the grandest scale.

[LueTm]

@MattSingh1 I don't debate they didn't. I debate that that make's them fair game for nukes. I'm not a left-winger, I'm a middle-right & I'm a humanist & I was in favour of regime-change in Iraq.

All that doesn't change that nuking civilians is mass-slaughtering and wrong. Because:

a) You slaughter innocent children

b) You cripple the next generations & causae miscarriages for years to come.

c) You contaminate the region for years.

Now stop ad hominem & empty assuptions about me.

[INRIsee]

No Hitchens comes off as a self agrandizing sociopath, and never really

says much, but acting like a comedian.

[mogem]

@INRIsee I think Hichens thought he was a comedian---

---he had to, right?

[atlascott]

The Marine is right.

[MattSingh1]

@atlascott No he's not. He was wrong at the time, and is actually even more wrong now, amazingly.

[dmowings]

Ritter is emotional and sincere. But he keeps making Hitchens's point, and just seems to like hearing himself talk.

[battleax86]

@dmowings That's my problem with Ritter. He's way too emotional. Hitchens comes across as level-headed and thoughtful. Ritter comes across as a petulant bully.

[AeolisticFury]

They never got to do audience questions!

[Mishkafofer]

what about a big thanks for Israel for bombing Iraqi Nuclear reactor in 1982? Israel had a rain of shit after that but in 1991 everybody were easy about confronting Iraq when its nuclear program was not so advanced.

[rysw19]

51:58 it should have been an iraqi flag

[MrSquareroots]

@rysw19 quite right

[richter75]

Great debate, and i agree with hexag1.. Maybe one of the best debates about the Iraq war ever.

Hitchens wins, Ritter makes some strange mistakes and says things we know he dont even means ..

[macgeek2004]

@ifenunited

And not the only one. There's another, newer, even larger elephant in the room, which I'd really like to see him address: Libya.

Colonel Gathafi (that's the official Romanized spelling used by Gathafi himself, look it up) was EVERYTHING Sadaam was and even more, ONLY WORSE. And look how the conflict in Libya went down! Kinda refutes the whole Iraq thing, doesn't it? Lol

[MrJs1G]

@macgeek2004

"was EVERYTHING Sadaam was and even more, ONLY WORSE"

-- What makes you believe that?

[ifemunited]

Hitchens just restlessly and unsuccessfully tries to escape the major question Ritter puts forth: What was the initial excuse of the Iraqi occupation ?! Was is authentic or just a felony ??!!

Since he knows the answer to that question will be his dead end, he just jumps left and right to avoid answering it and to divert the debate to peripherial subjects.

[paulandlesson]

@ifemunited

Well said.

[richter75]

@ifemunited You can still say the initial excuse of the Iraqi war was wrong and still support it.. The reasons for removing Saddam is infinite..

[JoeJones3001]

@ifemunited Well no he does address this. Ritter says that the president should've have said liberation if it was about liberation but he only claimed WMDs. Hitchens says is not bound by the president, Htchens' argument centres around the need for removal of a theocrat. He doesn't care why they said they were going in, he understands that having any theocrat is, loosely put, bad. He doesn't need to answer it as his case is independent of Bush's

[MrSquareroots]

they never got to ask their questions

[princemuqrin]

@MegaLotusEater Thank you Noam Chomksy wannbe.

[MegaLotusEater]

@princemuqrin No worries Hitler wannabe

[princemuqrin]

@MegaLotusEater crackpot conspiracy theorist. Stick to your Roswell UFO and Moonlandings websites.

[MegaLotusEater]

@princemuqrin And you can stick to your false Nazi like justifications for your sick wars

[richter75]

@nappyweed111 They flagged u as spam, i pressed unspam.. ppl are misusing this feature.

[princemuqrin]

Scott Ritter was recently convicted of 'exchanging explicit messages in a [video] chat room with an undercover police officer posing as a 15-year-old girl, and then performing a sex act on himself'.

[preemptivestrike20]

@princemuqrin So much for Scot Ritter screaming for obedience to the rule of law. Another creepy anti-war pedo bites the dust.

[MegaLotusEater]

@princemuqrin Isn't it strange how people who challenge the USA sometimes find themselves charged with sex crimes (Assange another case in point).

[Saywhatyoumust]

@MegaLotusEater-These people charged with sex crimes etc., is often nothing but a set up by the CIA, the Gvt and any other such entities - just like Dom Strauss Kahn was. DSK is a threat to Sarkozy and was looking to not only win as Pres in the next French election, but to also take the Euro in another direction away out from under the US's thumb in all this mess. The US would lose a puppet if DSK wins the next election as he is not so much a cocksucker as Sarkozy.

Just using DSK as an example

[MegaLotusEater]

@Saywhatyoumust Interesting. Thanks for that.

[Jmsadv]

@Saywhatyoumust Dom admitted to having sex with that maid so your conspiracy theory blows as hard as that maid did to Strauss. Get Real!

[Saywhatyoumust]

@Jmsadv-There are people set up by the Gvt and Elites and it is a fact that DSK is/was a threat to Sarkozy taking over the French Presidency in the next election with Sarkozy being more of a cock sucker to the US than DSK.. DSK also mentioned taking the Euro in another direction which the US did not like to hear. DSK might have played his hand at the maid, this would not surprsie me either really, but there is more to this than meets the eye I think.

[richter75]

@MegaLotusEater Well some get the nobel price..

[xxdiogenescynicxx]

@princemuqrin Yeah it is called a set up because he was exposing Israel's influence on United State's foreign policy. Research A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (commonly known as the "Clean Break" report) is a policy document that was prepared in 1996 by a study group led by Richard Perle for Benjamin Netanyahu, the then Prime Minister of Israel.