I just got through reading his book Crazy For God. Sometimes I think he comes across as still very angry and a little over-the-top, but hey, he speaks the truth. Exteme right-wing fundamentalists have hi-jacked the true religion of God for way too long. They do more to keep non-christians away from God than they realize. I mean, if you thought their version of God was the real one would you want to follow him? I'm glad I now know the difference. Many don't and turn away completely. Very sad!
@auntstacey123 I didn't mean to imply that non-christians don't know God. Many know him way better than the majority of these right-wing, Republican crazies. Look at people like Ghandi.
you know what, you've convinced me. here i was a left wing liberal who wanted everybody to have equal rights but you've convinced me!
get me a burning cross! i'm gonna crucify a faggot nigger on it while i guzzle piss warm beer through my toothless gums right before i go home to beat my wife and fuck my daughter! YEEEEEE-HAAAAAAW! *goes out to buy every confederate flag and crucifix necklace in the store*
Frankie the fly........get off Palin you punk.....Frankie the fly.....you can foam at the mouth with Olberman when you lose the House you pseudo-intellectual
Frankie the fly........get off Palin you punk.....Frankie the fly.....you can foam at the mouth with Olberman when you lose the House you pseudo-intellectual
@BullrunTeamEvo Yes he does understand. The book Republican Gomorrah (by Max Blumenthal) talks further into detail on this "Escape from Freedom" Escape From Reason" BS you accept unconditionally. It's pretty sickening that you and you type of people are so ass-backwards and anti-intellectual. You revel in your ignorance as though it had substance. Also Read "Conservatives Without Conscience by John Dean.
Prescient... everyone should hear this and understand the implications of what Schaeffer is saying. Keywords: Right Wing Machine. Start by Googling Texas State Board of Education, or just Don McLeroy.
As an atheist and having a great 'distaste' for religion, I have nothing but the utmost respect for this man. It took a lot of courage for him to rethink his life and admit he was wrong.
Most people DON"T rethink their life when they grow up; they continue the conditioning and racism they grow up with, and become even more extreme as they get older. Frank Schaeffer is in the extreme minority in escaping this fundamentalist mindset.....
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Frank, I remember when you burst on the scene in the early 1980s and (almost personally) hijacked the evangelical movement for your (then) pet pro-life cause. You dragged them off message, and stirred up the loonies among them.
And now, judging by the responses to this video, you are whipping up the blood lust of the fringe types on the other side. In both cases, Frank, you seem satisfied only when you are stirring up hatred.
As far as Obama goes, there is simply no way you can read the memos he sends to staff, or watch what is happening on gov 2.0 sties like nextgov or govloop and not realize that we have a great man working to honestly revolutionize the accountability of our government. That is change I can believe in because I'm participating in it. One day soon you will be able to spend a monthly income of a currency that represents your political capital as a means to participate in government at all levels.
Obama is a bald faced liar. We dont need or want his revolutionized accountability because so far he has been unaccountable and therefore he has robbed us of over 1 Trillion. He has plans for more destruction within his health plan. Soon you wont be able to spend your money because he is printing enormous amounts thus making our dollors worthless. He has over 30 CZARS in charge in trillions of tax dollors with NO accountability. He is a huge piece of crap. Youve hired an Marxist turd. ThankYou
Yes, well your comment says little past your willingness to misrepresent reality to suit your perspective. Obama cannot make laws. Congress does that. He can make suggestions, and have the best of intentions, but ultimately the game played forces a great deal of bargaining and leaves us all exposed to special interests who deftly manipulate our system. The real fix is going to take a revolution in accountability made possible by a new transparency. You are looking backwards, and not ahead.
And those whom dont remember thier history are doomed to repeat it. Do you really think there wont be special interest in OBAMAs society. He is controled totaly by special interest right now. Climate Control idiots, Unions, Admitted Marxist, you really need to become better informed.
Since you are so smart mmac382, go gather up some of your white trash friends, buy some guns and start a revolution. I honestly look forward to putting you stupid people (who all think you are so TOUGH and SMART) to be put in your fucking place.
The part Schaefer left out was after college you start to grow up and realize that the right is right. Is is so far off with his imature assesments its sad. Like most racists liberals he makes the fact that the Pres is black and issue. He makes money on race merchandising. We dont want to see OBAMA fail. Its just plain obvious he will fail and we dontwant to be dragged down with his Dumb arse.
I sure am grateful that you show up to demonstrate the ignorance and stupidity of religious people so regularly. Obama has already done more for democracy than anyone since Lincoln. Government 2.0 is reinventing our nation (and entire world) more radically than even a bona fide revolution could. And the clueless racists, skinheads, and religious garbage hate him so much they aren't participating at all--so it's going rather well. We're actually likely to have a more open and honest government.
Schaefer is obviously another one of those people looking for an organization to nurse maid him through life. His parents obviously didnt keep score when he played soccer as a child and now he expects everything to be given to him. Of course God let him down at some point and so now he is agry because he didnt get what he wanted. Gods laughing at this guy saying ... "what? did this guy really expect me to take care of him all his life? What and idiot!"
There is nothing magical about the supernatural either--its just another name we use to describe emergent phenomenon when we don't have a precise understanding of the mechanisms that would make it seem mundane (emergent vs supernatural.) The history of our species is basically the story of how intuitive heuristics that evolved to empower minds discovered the utility of genuine understanding and developed the techniques necessary to harvest it and empower themselves in ways new to evolution.
There is nothing magical about non-physical things. Most the useful things we know of are metaphysical. The very language we're using for example. Your first premise is simply wrong. In an obvious way--math couldn't be better proof of how blatantly false it is too--Math is the only thing we can be utterly certain about--to know "for sure." Math would be what it is with or without a god, and there's nothing god can do to change that fact. Still, I am hoping you'll keep trying to explain.
I disagree. I don't see how much more morally bankrupt it's possible to become that evangelical Christian. It's so palpably absurd that it is a deep insult to anyone to even suggest it. All you're really saying is that you believe others are so fucking stupid that they might actually have something other than contempt for such a filthy perspective on reality.
"Would you mind if I come by and take a shit in your living room?"
That's a far less insulting question in my opinion.
I find it interesting that you can make the accusation that evangelical Christianity is 'morally bankrupt' - while using the vulgarity 'f---ing stupid' and offering to 'take a s--t in your living room' in the very next sentences.
Liberally minded people simply can't leave a comment on YouTube without being vulgar. They seem to go hand-in-hand...
It's simply the best way I can find to convey how utterly reprehensible I find fraud that your ilk perpetrates on young children. Most of the words we have that convey our most passionate disgust are for various forms of excrement or other bodily secretions that are prone to harbor pathogens. I find it to be the most appropriate association because the ideology you endorse is a form of pathogenic secretion from very sick people. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain it.
Sadly, I can only imagine the influence on 'young children' that your comments equating faith in God to human excrement might be to impressionable young minds...
I'm just hoping they can see how treacherous a betrayal it is (to your own self and all humanity) to worship a dictator of any kind. That they can come to realize that the best proof that you are all just cowardly ignorant frauds is your completely lack of the most basic notion of what truth even is! The very last thing a genuine god-of-truth would want is any degree or respect or worship. We come to know truth by doubting it--by trying hardest to disprove that dogma we hold most dear.
My friend, you routinely curse, you accuse all evangelical Christians of being 'cowardly ignorant frauds,' you make assertions of what a 'genuine god-of-truth' would want, you use human excrement as a tool for an analogy...if THIS is what a 'life without faith in God' is like, then please count me out...
Your comment is very telling and pretty much confirms what I've been saying about you. It suggests you aren't really interested in what might be true at all. As you say yourself--you have no interest in what a life without your faith might be like. There is no doubt that you can avoid dealing with any aspect of our world you don't wish to face. That's the primary means by which religion harms humanity and why decent people are so completely disgusted with what evangelicals have done to America.
I simply have no interest in pursuing a life that involves vulgar, callous comments that center on human excrement and the dehumanization of others...
The dehumanization of others is the very basis of religion. It's what leads men like Paul Hill, or the terrorists in the middle east to murder others on the basis of nothing but an idea in their heads. I'm just pointing out the true nature of the industry you promote, how easy it is to see why it's just a fraud, and how intellectually and morally bankrupt it's adherent are as people. You've enjoyed immunity for the longest time, mostly by just killing those who opposed you but the party is over.
No, dehumanization is when one compares another human being (whom he has never met in his life) to human excrement - and uses vulgarity in the process. No love, no warmth - just baseless attack.
I,of course, would agree with your assessment about murdering others for simply having an idea in their heads. That worldview typified the USSR, a 'paradise' free from religious influence which you so detest. That way of life only led to the death of millions at the hands of their own government.
More fraud from someone who is capable of little else. Cristopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris do a good job of debunking that popular bit of misinformation spewed by theists to indict atheism when there is no real connection at all. I'm just happy to see you regurgitate here--further proving you don't even research the false claims you make. We wouldn't be capable of having this discussion if it wasn't for the ancestors who risked death to look for real answers outside of dogma.
Christianity was suppressed in the communist countries; millions died at the hands of tyrants like Joseph Stalin in the USSR and Mao Tse-Tung in China. Irrefutable.
I find it interesting that people like Dawkins refuses to debate prominent theists on his suppositions. At least Hitchens and Harris will debate issues - but, like most atheists, they seem to be very angry people - and lob venomous statements to others...
It's easy to believe honesty and integrity are very alien to you. But the point is that just because Hitler happened to be a vegetarian doesn't say a thing about vegetarianism as a mechanism for inciting amoral behavior. Scripture is filled with directives to kill people in the most cruel and brutal ways for the most minor and trivial mistakes--gathering wood on the Sabbath, disrespecting your parents (who hasn't?) Keep it up. You're making my case for me and reinforcing every claim about you.
When a culture lacks freedom and religious liberty - rights that are, like the our founding documents state, 'endowed by our Creator,' then tyranny takes over - and never has that tyranny been more expressed in such a heinous way as in Communist Russia and China - where religious liberties were squashed and millions were murdered.
When religious liberties are strong, as in the United States, then people can act freely and live out their religious values, without governmental threat.
Ultimately you are advocating the "mind rape" of children. This is no less reprehensible in my opinion than the physical raping that the Catholic Church has gotten away with (and covered up) on a massive scale for many years. We regularly see frauds like Haggart emerge from the most successful Churches. We see men like Jeremy Wright use the pulpit to spew political propaganda. Just recently the Moron church was instrumental in reversing gay marriage rights. You encourage a lasting damage.
I teach my children to love God - who first loved us and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to pay a substitutionary death on our behalf.
I teach my children to love other people, to pray for others, to pray for our President and our other leaders in government, to be kind to people and to 'do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.'
If in your mind that's 'mind rape' - then so be it; it sure beats an ethic of spewing hatred and vulgarity on a public website...
You have a sinister message to sell so you can't do it directly. I don't have that problem. My message doesn't impose such a morally confusing notion, that someone has to die for others to be forgiven for the sins of distant ancestors. The only reason you don't see it as mind rape is because you believe it. To anyone with a genuine sense of morality it teaches only that god is one hell of an immoral bully if we're still responsible for Adam and Eve. Or should your kids pay for your crimes?
Jesus died for the sins that I, personally, have commited - and for all the sins that each individual has ever done.
My belief - and acceptance of His substitutionary death - offers me the freedom to not cast hateful rhetoric towards the actions of others - which is why when you choose to spew vial comments towards me, I don't take any of them to heart.
My 'old nature' would had gotten mad; my 'new' nature through Christ desires to love you anyway.
I don't need a lot of inane sophistry to treat others with respect. If you want to love people who rape children, abuse their tax exempt status to achieve political ends, twist the teaching of biology, interfere with a woman's right to stay in control of her own body, and all the other crap you criminals get away with then don't expect me to respect you for it. Respect, to me, means being honest, seeking real understanding, and trying to become as great an asset to our biome as time permits.
I think you need something to help you treat others with respect, my friend....you've treated me with as much disrespect as any human being can muster.
Now I guess I'm a 'criminal'....oh, well - I'll try harder to be a better person tomorrow (ha, ha!)....
Get real. If you proudly display the fact that you support NAMBLA then you've got to expect strangers to be simply disgusted with you. At first sight and from then on.
You don't know me, you've never met me, I haven't done anything to harm you - and yet, in your very first comment, equated me with human excrement and threw some vulgarities my way.
Is that your way of saying 'hello' to strangers?
If anything, you've strengthened the prevailing stereotype that atheists are extremely unhappy people - who have genuine hatred for others who don't share their worldview.
Because the industry you support and promote does so much real measurable damage to our world. The most heinous crime is actually rarely even mentioned--robbing humanity of the fresh perspective that each new person can potentially discover in creating their internal model of our world. By indoctrinating children before they're even cognizant of the true nature of the claims you folks predispose them to a particular perspective rather than allow the freedom to discover explanations of their own.
The only thing OBAMA has done is rob our country of trillions, foster an atmosphere of racism and hatred ( of course liberals are naturally hateful to begin with) and point our country to financial destruction. And thats all. Your just too stupid to know it. And you areafraid of religion. Now stop sobbing.
Sometimes I think the best thing about Obama is the way he's become such a huge annoyance to the most ignorant and hateful segments of our population. I think the more angry and bitter fox news can make you folks the better off we'll all be after the coming elections. I hope you'll support Palin in 2012. No one better represents today's republican party.
Every parent offers their children a worldview - that includes non-theists 'predisposing' them to a worldview that there is no God.
Every Christian I know is very tolerant, very loving, prays for others, etc.
The only real hatred I've seen lately, quite frankly, are YOUR comments impugning me and everybody else who holds to a different perspective. Equating them to human fecal material, calling them 'cowardly' and 'mind rapers'...
"..impugning me and everybody else who holds to a different perspective." A good example of the way you distort truth. I have indicted religion for the specific crimes it commits. That does not imply that I am equally intolerant of any view besides my own. It's the same way you misrepresent atheism as the motivation for the heinous crimes of psychotics. Your mission in life, past existing, is to infect as many others with the same toxic memes that control you. The fecal analogy is appropriate.
Atheism was not the motivation for the heinous crimes of communist regimes - however, by default, when tyrannical governments - without the checks and balances put forth through Judeo-Christian foundations - begin to see themselves as 'God, they rationalize all kinds of evil. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia/China, non-Judeo-Christian societies like most countries in the Middle East, all oppressed their citizenry - resulting in the deaths of millions upon millions - and that ties to unbelief.
Let me get this straight, despite all the crimes committed in the name of religion (and motivated directly it) and the fact that you do NOT consider atheism to play other than an enabling role in the crimes of tyrants you'll still use that as a reason to discredit atheism? And you wonder why I am so quick to accuse you of deliberate fraud? I can't believe you can't see how disingenuous that is. It isn't even relevant to the justification I gave for concluding that the god of Abraham is a fraud.
Religion is broad. It can mean anything from Islamofascists who fly airplanes into buildings to a 'Christian' wacko who murders an abortion doctor.
The truth is that communists - who had NO belief in a higher being - thus behaved as such - and rationalized every evil one could imagine. As a result, millions paid the price in countries that DELIBERATELY suppressed the learning of Christian ethics....so, yes, with a secular govenrment that outlawed Christianity, every action was permissible.
I have never advocated violence or any sort of force. Unlike you people, I wouldn't even vote to impair you freedoms in the slightest way. If I convince anyone of anything it's because I communicated a perspective that caused them to deliberately change their views. That is, in my opinion, the only legitimate win of any conflict.
You comments about communism are as ignorant and misrepresentative as most everything else you've said here. I honestly don't believe you are capable of reasoning.
You can attribute horrific crimes to many secular institutions as well. Your fear of religion causes you to choose it as your scape goat. Thats fine. In the grand sceme of things you time on this earth (and your opinion) is insignificant. Your assumption about Fox news is interesting however. Where do you get your current event information?
I have no fear of religion. Or god for that matter. I actually hope there is a god just so I can be a disappointment to it. In my reality, a dictator is simply evil. I don't care how well meaning, powerful, wise, or kind it might be. The fact that it isn't a dialog--that my will is irrelevant to it--makes gods will no less irrelevant to me.
God just doesn't live up to my standards. The very idea of original sin (that one could inherit responsibility for a crime) is a terribly immoral idea.
ananawhatever - News flash - God doesnt expect anything out of you so you wont be a disappointment. And you spend most your time living in your moms basement typing away at your computer with no relevant purpose other than to seerve your own self loathing. You were probably molested by a priest at some time in your life and found you really liked it. So now you profess disdain for religion as a way of avoiding your inner guilt for wanting to meet Father Fondler once again.
No It just means he understands there are those whom are usless and incapable of comprehension. Therefore you will be treated with a special little love and understanding. Yell upstairs and tell mom hi for me OK?
Believe it or not, but I mostly pity folks like you. It must suck to be in a nation based on personal liberty when you obviously hate many of those freedoms and think they reflect our intrinsic sinfulness. You can call me a bigot for being so vehemently against the mind rape of children, but I actually think that's something everyone should be bigoted about. I'm only trying to protect the most valuable resource we have--the fresh perspective each new person has the potential of discovering.
What must really suck is forgetting to take your meds and finding yourself in some delusional reality where a thing called mind rape of children exist. If your refering to the whole "mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussien Obama" song then I can almost see you point but other than your childhood and Father Fondler I dont see your analogy. Oh ... I dont really need your pity.. thanks... Unlike you I can fend for myself. Now Yell up and tell mom to bring down the meds
I think reasonable people are growing ever more skeptical of the utility of religion and believe that the coffin nail will come from a breakthrough in artificial intelligence and a deeper understanding of the means by which consciousness emerges from our minds. I'm mostly here to explain why thoughtful people find the religious industry so disdainful and destructive. I'm grateful that you're cooperating in that endeavor.
Im not sure what facts you use as a basis for you assumptions about reasonable people.Heck Im not sure you even associate or come in contact with such reasonable people." Do they show up in your basement at night? At any rate your whole AI thing has been a topic of discussion in the scientific community for decades. Many scientist profess religious beliefs. Those must be the stupid ones ...right? Anyway your a bit behind. You know Radon could explain your confusion. Do you have any detectors?
OK So whats all this giberish about? It means nothing. Let me guess ... your saying there is scientific proof of a non-existant God? It really doesnt matter. The real issue is the intollerance of people like you. Your fear of the unknown incarcerates you to a life of anger and hate. Instead of getting out and experiencing real life. You relagate your existance to pouring over science journals and relinquishing your happiness to your mis-construed interpretations.
You made a false statement; that most scientists are theists. I remembered seeing serious studies that showed a dramatic decline so I thought I'd set the record straight for readers.
While I agree I could make a case a lot more effectively if I don't loose sight of the fact that your are victims, not criminals. You intent is no less genuine than mine, and you should be respected for that. I think my anger gets the best of me because its become a way to avoid the sadness of the situation.
I know. I even checked before typing 'most' and noted that you said many. I thought I did type many. Weird. But it doesn't change your misrepresentation of the truth--it's few, 7%, and was never many-even 94 years ago it was only a bit over a quarter of them.
Id 7% can be represented as many. Now if I said a majority thenthat would be a misrepresentation. However the point you missed was that people of scienc can have religious beliefs. The number is irrelevant
Another misrepresentation of the whole point of that post which was to refute my claim that religion is in decline. The data shows the trend I claimed very clearly. An honest person would just acknowledge that and move on.
Maybethe post was based on your weak assumption but the comment was just a side note as an adjunct to conversation. It wasnt intended to refute anything. Trust me... anyhting you want to twist can beundone.
Oh by the way. Iprobably can assume Im right about your living in moms basement, and Radon, and your not taking your meds and stuff. Oh yeah and the molestation by Father Fondler. Its alright God understands.
If it's any consolation, I believe I assume people like you must be wicked because you seem too smart to believe what you claim, so I assume you're lying--because despite the fact that its false, it's the best thing we've got to encourage folks to be nice, so the lie is worth it.
But you really aren't lying. And you're just as passionate about becoming the best you can be as I am. It's a very hard thing for me to accept because it seems so fantastic. But I'll try to keep it in mind as I post.
Are you still blothiating your selfhating BS. I thought you might have gave up by now. You like this Schaeffer guy are afraid and dont understand religious faith. I thought I explained this to you already. Now go back to your bedroom and climb under the covers and cry out for your mommy. You just dont get it. You wouldnt know the truth if it kicked you in the vigina. You just like to hearyourself talk.. and talk , and talk...
I'm against it because it is antithetical to everything about truth. It harms a person's ability to be objective and impartial in forming an internal model to reflect the reality we believe is out there. This is the most precious gift we as individuals have to offer our world--the potential to discover a more empowering perspective usually via a better understanding of the mechanism actually responsible for the phenomenon around us. Religion destroys that most wonderful fruit of our species.
"Unless you can prove 100% that there is no God....you cant claim to know the truth." Nonsense. You can't prove there isn't a teapot in orbit around Venus either. It doesn't mean anyone should take the claim seriously. Religion is making an even more absurd claim and should be ridiculed for that alone. What I said about truth goes--we don't come by truth via evidence, but via our failed attempts to disprove what we surmise best explains something. Religion is just philosophical pornography.
You can call me wrong until the heat death of the universe and it won't rescue that garbage or your perspective.
What you can't do is make any kind of a case to support the endorsement or worship of dictators of any sort. And I'll continue to ridicule imbeciles like you too cowardly to have faith in their own ability to reason things out. Faith that our world is ruled by an entity is simply stupid no matter how you look at it. I think that might be the whole point of it: make work for morons.
you could at least reply to me directly if you are going to say shit like that so I can refute what you say.
You speak poorly of Religions without KNOWING one way or the other if there is a God and do so in a way as if you DO know the truth. It does not matter if no evidence points to it, does not matter if it sounds moronic. YOU DONT KNOW. No side has the high ground because no side KNOWS.
And that is why your pseudo-intellectualism is laughable.
"You speak poorly of Religions without KNOWING one way or the other."
But you are assuming that our positions are symmetric--that the odds are 50-50. It's not the case. You are asserting a very fantastic claim, and need proof that is proportionally substantial. I am making no such claim by pointing out how stupid your reasoning is. It's just a political technology for selling a bogus ideology to morally indolent garbage too cowardly to take responsibility for their own decisions.
The fact that you claim ANYTHING is substantial or not proves your limited intellect.
You simply CANNOT know the odds, you are making base judgements without knowing anything.
our knowledge of our own planet is extremely limited and our knowledge of the universe is even MORE limited so how can ANYONE on either side lay claim to having a better perspective of what is or is NOT true?
All you're doing is demonstrating poor reasoning skills. We know a lot of things about our world and have excellent reasons for believing that the scientific method is SUBSTANTIALLY better than the stupidity of scripture. Predicting things like superconductivity, or the bending of light by gravity, etc. proves the superiority of the approach for achieving a useful understanding of our world. The universe doesn't have room for god. Religion is just food for flies that like to suck on shit.
I am using poor reasoning by realizing that knowledge of the physical world does not translate into knowing about non-physical things?
***IF*** there is a God, it would have existed BEFORE material existance thus nothing we know can apply to it.
Yes, that is how small minded you are.
You keep using an apple to orange comparison, science and religion are not in the same field of study. One is a study of the material, the other of spiritual.
There are so many ways that religion harms humanity that you really have to be one hell of a selfish piece of shit to endorse it at all. From the real everyday trauma brought to gays, educators, and scientists, to the disgusting perspective it leaves people with (that we can't be sure about anything, that the world is a mysterious place, etc) to the needless divisions and conflicts that follow--it's way worse than second hand smoke. It's just a rank form of philosophical pornography. Yeeech!
And from that, a fanatic is born! Why do you fail to see your own hypocrisy? Religion is imperfect, but so is sugar to a diabetic. The search should be for a sweatner that doesn't spike your insulin levels making you ill. Philosophy and alternative searches are at least less fanatical. Why would you destroy the whole thing. I mean, the east at least offers a much more interesting point of view. And don't talk to a gay man about defending religion I'm well aware of what vile SOME of them spew.
I actually don't want to destroy it. That would create a lot of trauma needlessly. I'd rather see it fixed (wrote a blog essay explaining how--"Religion could be our best invention.") The point is that it does massive damage today and should not be tolerated in its present form. The goal is great---let's make it a genuine science--the search for that set of beliefs which most predisposes us to find meaningful, mutualistic, fulfilling lives. Knowledge of any kind just cannot be sacrosanct!
Thom mentions town hall meetings. Those outraged plebans those folks it was paid for by Freedomworks.You have probably heard of them non profit *rolls eyes* orgainization like Americans for Prosperity. Funded by oil tycoon Koch.But the viewer at home doesn't know.These fringe freaks make up a small percentage but the propoganda hate machine is trying to convince us they are normal everyday folk protesting.Alie. Deceitful bastards.Its ok it is time for another scandal.I love Frank Schaeffer lol
Poverty exists because the people who use more than their share of the pollution absorbing capacity of the earth need not pay those who must have used less for that taking of that property. The impact of resource use is shared by everyone, but the benefit goes mostly to the user. Without redressing that impact, we create a situation where the wealthier you get, the greater the subsidy you enjoy via this mechanism. This err is essentially enforcing a huge transfer of wealth form poor to rich.
By those pieces of shit I mean just about every other Republican &stupid person who doesn't read. He's not a facist. He doesn't agree with the Patriot wants our liberties back. Don't compare shits like Bush & Reagon to Dr. Ron Paul who is worthy of respect. My goal is to know the truth don't care if you think I'm a 9/11 truther you're just another tool who doesn't know shit about history. What do gov'ts do when they want to start a war or take your liberties away? Hitler did it. So did Bush.
Gore Vidal said he's talked to republican leaders and has been raised amongst the ruling class. He said the contempt the ruling class has for the people is total. And if anyone is on the side of the people they're a soft hearted liberal or they've been "taken in."
I am reading Ann Coulter's book "how to talk to liberal' and I just want to reach across and slap her. She is such a hateful c*nt. Everything she wrote about is biased lies. All you have to do is switch Republican w/ Democrat and you will get closer to the truth. It is a mental illness that can only be cured with a bullet. I don't know how Bill Mahr dated that idiot. LOL she thought Canada sent troups to Vietnam. Wow such dogma and hidden agenda's TOO CREEPY for Halloween. Ron Paul is pragmatist
Ron Paul is right about foreign policy, but tell me abby, how is it that you can believe in a completely failed conservative idea like "letting the corporations do it and get the government out of the whole business." Ron Pauls words not mine. We've seen the result of that when reagan and bush sr. deregulated everything. IT'S A FAILURE abby! IT DOESN"T WORK. It never really has. Oh, and stop playing both sides of the fence in the crazy department you're comming of as a 9/11 truther nutjob.
I don't agree with all he says obviously. I believe in Financial aide & more help from the governmen. He wants the states to handle fraud & wants corporations to be regulated. That would have been a good idea but it is too late now. He's radical in a way that makese sense. He doesn't like the Federal Reserve.I respect him yeah even if I don't agree with it all. Even if he doesn't realize everyone isn't born w/ same advatanges he's a better man than the other pieces of shit.He's not a hypocrite.
I'm with you on the federal reserve. I didn't even realize it was a private entity until about a year ago. Our debt is double because of them. Time to sy bye bye to that whole idea and start something that has the interests of the people at hand.
I'm not here to debate about anything or do to your homework for you. I am here to find truth for myself. Debate is futile some people are born stupid they don't read they don't care they are brainwashed. They fall for the propoganda that is their problem. I have a very low opinion of people as it is and don't believe that people will actually pick up a history book and read it to discover in time about what is really going on in this country. Hopless pathetic tools
I want to know how a rich guy like him doesn't can't have empathy for others even if there are Jesus posters all over his house. Must be a mental block?Insanity. It is also the idea of being Supreme because he is white. I know another rich conservative with Fibromyalgia in her 40's. Why care about healthcare her dad still pays for everything. She has no job but complains about 'Mexicans' and welfare recepients.They don't realize what a facist monster they have become. WWJD? Absolutely not this.
The two people you just addressed are prime examples of folks on "socially acceptable" forms of welfare. Both live off trust funds. My parents are exactly like them, but wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone else who needs it. This is a cultural phenomenon that this country has produced..human cancers who take and consume to the point that they think that's what life is about..and consider others as nothing more than competition for resource.
Those Republican dotheads make me sick. I can't even talk to them anymore. Talking about Mexicans and welfare and bitching about taxes. I hope they burn with their precious money miserable b*tch and bastard. They are both mentally ill LOL I changed my number so I wouldn't have to talk to such stupid pin heads who think Reagan was a great prez. *barf*
not that I am arguing for God in governance but...the dark ages was not due to religion it was due to barbarians coming to power after the fall of Rome.
They were the "dark" ages because the "light" of knowledge was lost in the world.
And no, I am not saying that religion did not help keep knowledge down, it did, in Europe...but it also flourished under Islam in the middle east during those same years Europe was in the dark ages.
Why would the god of truth wish to be respected? We discover truth by doubting it, the last thing we'd ever want truth to be considered it sacred--it might stop someone from questioning it in a way that disproved it. The most basic idea of religion--that an entity embodying all knowledge, truth, justice, etc. wants to be acknowledged and respected to so precisely backwards that it deserves our most ardent ridicule and disgust. We pay too dearly for truth to tolerate the pollution of it.
YUP.Jesus was plagarized from Egyptian mythology. In 2500BC Egyptians worshipped the Sun& their religion was based on astrological cycles of the cosmos.Horus, sun god has same exact story as Jesus born of virgin Dec 25, his death, resurrection,ascention. The 10 commandments are also found in Egyptian book of the dead. Christians just stole that idea. Noah's Ark was stolen from Epic of Gilgamesh written in 3600 BC.All true I'm afaid..
I know it's a crock. Complain to Frank. He thinks he is being wise by discrediting the fundamentalists while he himself endorses the religion! How stupid does that religion make people? Is Frank honestly too myopic to realize that it's the moderates like him grocery shopping the bible for what they want to believe that enable the pathological assholes to go so overboard with that dogma? The fundamentalists may be a nuisance, but they at least have the integrity to actually stick to the dogma.
Frank Schaefer is not a moderate. Frank Schaefer believes in God that's true. Who are you to say that the mystery doesn't go deeper than the dinosaurs or even beyond the Judeo Christian concept of deity? You're just another screwed up libertarian atheist who used to be a republican but now that, that word is worse than the word liberal you've decided to run away run away run away. Dude i've met so many people like you it's not funny.
I meant moderate Christian obviously. Who is to say the god of truth couldn't possibly want respect? Anyone with a brain. If you can't figure that out you might be as stupid as Frank.
Who am I running from exactly? How have you met me? Are you delusional?
You're assuming that Frank believes in the books that weren't excluded from the council of Niceum. Why do think the Catholic Church FEARS the Gnostic Gospels so much? Maybe the truth transcends all conceptual fabrications and invalidates any attempts at catagorization. That would challenge your ability to be so cocky and judgemental. In fact it neutralizes your ability to actually counter argue. You want to side with the cult of insanity? Go right ahead they'll tare you apart.
"Maybe the truth transcends all conceptual fabrications and invalidates any attempts at catagorization. "
Which implies we can never know anything for sure, which implies the statement is meaningless since we can't know if we can't know. And why that line of reasoning is so meaningless. Unless your'e just trying to be confusing because you really have no defense for your original point. The fact is that we come by truth by trying to disprove it and always failing. All "found" dogma is BS.
If you have no understanding of far eastern philosophy then all attempts to penetrate using classical logic will fail you. Do some studying. Read a book and get back to me. Start with Laotzu
No, what I'm saying is that one can gain insight into sartori through meditation, but finding ultimate truth is another thing. I didn't say I had found it I just don't buy the cynicism of logical slight of hand that tries to disprove it's existance or non-existance since (it) for a lack of a substantial definition is beyond dualistic thinking. Again, insight to these things have been gleamed through the centuries and aren't just mysticism and superstition.
Yes abby, Zeitgeist is EPIC FAIL and has been debunked. I wanted to believe it too but the research just isn't there. So, continue with your ignorance no ones going to stop you.
After all if it's only mysticism and superstition then explain modern sciences acceptance of chinese accupunture? Please don't try to get around that question if you do it only invalidates any other follow up from you and then you lose this game of chess.
It's only a game to a fraud like you. Now you have to resort to a discussion of acupuncture to disprove my claim that religion nothing but a political tool? You're kidding me, right? The bottom line on acupuncture is that our bodies are fantastically complex, and it's quite possible that there plenty of technologies outside of western medicine that may have therapeutic utility--but that has absolutely nothing to do with what we can deduce about any god that might exist.
Never said a God exists and Frank is allowed to believe what he will. He just saw the hatred and hypocrisy of the right wing CULT OF INSANITY that has plagued our nation for so long. You attempted to make these monsters into heroes by being as insane as they are. Talk about dogmatic your posts are the ultimate example of stale dogmatism and tedious socratic slight of hand. Have you nothing but Ad-hominem attacks and scorn for your fellow man? Sorry, the accupunture reply was lame.
Frank's a bigger hypocrite than the fundamentalists are. Christianity would be dead if it wasn't for the assholes like Frank that ignore the bits they don't like. No one would tolerate it if every Christian behaved as if they believed the bible was true. That's the problem--there is no religion in it at all. It's just a political tool--a means to deodorize a foul agenda by associating with this myth that religion makes people more morally astute. The opposite is the case. Bush made it too real.
You have NO idea what Frank Schaefer believes. He may have come to the same conclusions that Joseph Campbell came to when he said that God is only a word that expresses the highest thought that escapes catagorical thinking. I agree religion has been a tool used by some, but there are sincere people who believe and have faith and pray and toil and give to their fellow man till it hurts. Christianity in American has adopted this Gospel of Greed that is never mentioned by Christ.
He says he is a Christian, That's endorsing that industry. You can claim he has something else in mind, but then he shouldn't call it Christianity. If I say I'm all for molesting children, but by molesting I mean cooking them a healthy meal, then I'd better make that qualification with every single utterance or I risk being associated with the more common definition of the term. The bible seems to agree with the fundamentalists, not Frank. So he's the one that needs to use another word.
One can believe in the philosophy of Christ, nothing wrong with that is there. And by that one can qualify themselves as a Christian. After all who's making the rules here you? Me? Frank Schaefer? God? Logic? Daffy Duck? Benjamin Disraeli? Art Garfunkel? Hermione Gingold? A tree? Seltzer water? WHO IS IN CHARGE? No one. I'm not trying to mock you I'm just making a point that Frank is a repentant man who saw rampant abuse and is only human. He needs a God because he's flawed as are we all.
The speakers of the language have the last word. If using the word Christian becomes enough of a nuisance then perhaps the fake ones, like Frank, will use another. The bible is pretty clear and I don't see which tenets of Christ's philosophy that he's adopted. Have no thought for tomorrow (the main idea) doesn't seem to be part of Franks ideology. No vow of poverty there. Do we have to give Jesus or God credit for any good anyone might do for any reason? Make a case besides it's his right.
So the books of the bible chosen by the Catholic church is what your whole argument rests upon? You realize of course that the Gnostics have a totally different take on the resurrection right? I hate to say this, but who died and made the Catholic church God? You don't see the tenets he's adopted? Of course you don't neither do I, but how do know he doesn't give to the poor( a main tenet of christs) or have a bit of the baptist in him? Is he not calling out the pharisees of his age? I think so.
It has nothing to do with any of the scriptures. It's more fundamental. A god of truth wouldn't wish to be respected--it's no way to teach integrity, kindness, or even piety. If god had wanted us to have the philosophy of Christ the bible would teach us that our soul actually resides in everyone except us. The bible would teach us that the idea that might be close to sacrosanct is that no knowledge of any kind ever benefits from anything but our most sincere and ardent skepticism. God too.
Just got your message.. Ironically, we want exactly the same things obviously. Why, oh why, isn't the scientific method good enough for you? It's been such boon to conversation! Why not give up the single thing that makes religion such a nuisance--the idea that it might be true, and embrace the obvious intent of it directly? Is it not okay to make a science out of trying to understand how mythological ideas can better empower us to find wholesome lives for ourselves? I just don't see why not.
Religion has only resulted in terrible bloodshed, destruction. All in favor of respecting,the natural world common sense, taking care of the earth, using sound judgement say aye. Really after one gets older reads about the histery(hysteria) of human race &psychology you are more likely to be Wiccan Pagan anything else.We have poisoned our home! I know the Earth will take out her Vengance on us for defiling her so including the animals we tortured on assembly lines because we are cruel!No mercy!
If we fuck up the climate, we'll not doubt get some feedback confirming it. But I'm more optimistic than I've ever been. Gov 2.0 is real, and promises to dramatically improve our world. (Be a part of it at nextgov, or govloop, or some other site.) But once we have a meaningful role in government, we can better appreciate how the choices we make in life affect us, we really will elect better leaders and make wiser policy decisions.. And it will happen fast. The web is less than 20/yo.
Never heard of Gov 2.0. I will look it up : )Yes I love the web. For the first time I can actually get news hear about actual things that happened. I don't have a tv anymore because it is crap and they never report the truth anyway.
I don't care what Frank believes all I know is that he called you dumbsh*ts village idiots. You have absconded Christianity. Furthermore it doesn't matter because we now know that Christianity is a fabrication taken from the Egyptians who preceeded him. I found this out a few days ago. So nevermind all that you can go on being the village idiot. I am not here to debate. Challenge LOL. LOL the truth doesn't transcend itself you fool. Will they 'tear' me apart? Who? Take your meds lol.
abby, your narcisism is making you believe that these posts are to you. Calm down and stop watching Zeitgeist on youtube it's been refuted and demolished already by the best scholars.
No one post was to me and I replied to it. I commented to anan and I also posted something else about townhall meetings. I don't see why you are getting your panties in a bunch.
The mystery originated with the Egyptians so if we are to worship anything let us worship the Sun. Jesus is the SUN personified into a PERSON. 2500BC they PRE DATE him get it? I don't know what the truth is but there are alot of Messiahs with the same stories, Horus, Mithra,Attis, Krishna just about every culture has one way before Jesus. And none of those say we are the one and true religion. Only Christianity says that for political control of the masses at the time. Even now.
Frank probably believes in Jesus & all that but doesn't like the monster that religion has become. At least he told the truth that the right wing fox people are hatemongers and it wasn't meant to be about hating your country, gays, non whites and being callous rich and uncaring of the poor. But he can't go the extra step because he has faith from what I understand he didn't want his faith to be bastardized.
" Because he has faith from what I understand he didn't want his faith to be bastardized."
I don't buy it. People's behavior is an indicator of their beliefs, not what they say. How often have you seen someone behave as if they don't have faith in their money? It's totally faith based and we have no trouble sharing an almost perfect identical faith in it--a totally made up thing. Yet most of these phony Christians will tell you they have more faith in god. They don't think when they speak.
It is hard to say because they believe alot of crazy stuff. For example the bible makes you give up natural urges and way of life for spiritual and in so doing who knows what type of psychological demons come out or in what way the frustration of being unable to be 'human' manifests itself. Really it is a tough road for one who is serious and not in it for the money. But I don't doubt that alot of them are phony. Hypocricy is always abundant. Thinking isn't their forte blind faith is.
LOL Jesus isn't even real. The entire story was lifted right out of the Egyptian book of the dead. Furthermore there were other Messiahs prior to Jesus which Justin Martyr attributes to the deception of the Devil who is probably not real either. Although I need to do more research about him/her.
Yeah the Christian barbarians who if you didnt believe exactly as they did tore your skin off with oyster shells and visited all types of horrors on you.
It flourished in Islam because the Ottoman Empire did not persecute Christians.They gave everyone a change not just the Artistocracy anybody in the empire to come forth display their skill. Muslims were progressive then. They named the stars you know.I bet it was their religion taking it too literally that brought them down.
fringefries is just another cowardly Christian worm who's invested so much of his life in that trash giving it up is too scary, or would be politically too expensive. So he listens to sophists look for ways to spin that garbage into something he himself can belief. And the best guys like that can do is refer to books they can't explain and cower from any real challenge. He knows it's a crock. He's just too much of a phony to admit it.
That is why I said 'I bet' because I'm not done learning about the Ottoman empire. It is too bad Muslims/Arabs have become what they are today. They were magnificient. Now they are barbaric because of their culture but I suspect also influence of the Koran which they follow to the LETTER. Koran looks good on paper but in actuality it is never that way. Same as Christianity. Religion has caused horror & destruction to mankind because it ignores humanism. God said it so we must do it.
Abby, again. How could the Koran be responsible for their staying down seeing as how it was due to the Koran that they became so great? :)
It was politics that changed. just like how politics changed Christianity into the thing we have today. Rome took control of it, made Jesus the son of a God that was born from a virgin and rose from the dead. Proof that was added comes from books found from early christian sects that paint a different Jesus.
It is written 'Give to God what is God's and to Caesar what is Caesar's 'Matthew 22:21. This means if you are Christian you have no place in politics. So all these idiots who want to talk about 'Bury Obamacare with Kennedy' are disobeying God. They should be worshipping God and staying the H8ll out of the way of the government and mind their own d*mned business. Go to the hill and wait for Jesus to come back or go kill yourself but stop meddling you are destroying this country you freaks.
Yes abby, you've got it these people are lost, twisted freaks who shit on our flag and then dare to salute it in the name of their lost vision of the gospels. We are commanded to love one another not destroy out of wrath. Last time I checked vengeance belonged to God not man. Unfortunately, it's going to take an armed confrontation with these people to bring all Americans to the same conclusion about the religious right.However, we can't be the ones who instigate it we have to let them fire 1st.
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the koreans are using special lights to look thru the walls. check out my videos. its that green light they use on the motels
jdoinit 8 months ago
brilliant!
Trex100 1 year ago
I just got through reading his book Crazy For God. Sometimes I think he comes across as still very angry and a little over-the-top, but hey, he speaks the truth. Exteme right-wing fundamentalists have hi-jacked the true religion of God for way too long. They do more to keep non-christians away from God than they realize. I mean, if you thought their version of God was the real one would you want to follow him? I'm glad I now know the difference. Many don't and turn away completely. Very sad!
auntstacey123 1 year ago
@auntstacey123 I didn't mean to imply that non-christians don't know God. Many know him way better than the majority of these right-wing, Republican crazies. Look at people like Ghandi.
auntstacey123 1 year ago
Tea baggers confused? With the internet
& all the info at your fingertips how can
this be? Easy. Their boy George Bush, the freaking
president, was computer illiterate. John McCain?
same thing. Barack Obama is the 1st computer
literate President which automatically makes
him suspect... not one of them...THANK GOD!!!
I know about Schaeffer's father & I know
that Schaeffer Jr took the hard road out
of the morass that he helped shape & define.
danger0usknowledge 1 year ago 5
What a bunch of BS
immuntocrap2 1 year ago
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@immuntocrap2 "What a bunch of BS"
you know what, you've convinced me. here i was a left wing liberal who wanted everybody to have equal rights but you've convinced me!
get me a burning cross! i'm gonna crucify a faggot nigger on it while i guzzle piss warm beer through my toothless gums right before i go home to beat my wife and fuck my daughter! YEEEEEE-HAAAAAAW! *goes out to buy every confederate flag and crucifix necklace in the store*
idiot -_-
RabSimpsonDotCom 1 year ago
Listen to the jack booted comments!
mobilechief 1 year ago
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Frankie the fly........get off Palin you punk.....Frankie the fly.....you can foam at the mouth with Olberman when you lose the House you pseudo-intellectual
indkeith 1 year ago
Frankie the fly........get off Palin you punk.....Frankie the fly.....you can foam at the mouth with Olberman when you lose the House you pseudo-intellectual
indkeith 1 year ago
Frankie the fly.....you're wack dude...btw....you made a hell of a lot more sense in the 80's:)
indkeith 1 year ago
Hate filled homosexual activist. This guy is as fraudulent as Obama...This guy has no understanding of rightwing movements. Disgusting POS.
BullrunTeamEvo 1 year ago
@BullrunTeamEvo Yes he does understand. The book Republican Gomorrah (by Max Blumenthal) talks further into detail on this "Escape from Freedom" Escape From Reason" BS you accept unconditionally. It's pretty sickening that you and you type of people are so ass-backwards and anti-intellectual. You revel in your ignorance as though it had substance. Also Read "Conservatives Without Conscience by John Dean.
tomestubbs 1 year ago 3
Frank Schaeffer restored my faith in God
MrsPamela74 1 year ago
Prescient... everyone should hear this and understand the implications of what Schaeffer is saying. Keywords: Right Wing Machine. Start by Googling Texas State Board of Education, or just Don McLeroy.
julsHz 1 year ago
he is on the right track, hopefully he will continue this kind of thinking
MultiDoublehelix 1 year ago
As an atheist and having a great 'distaste' for religion, I have nothing but the utmost respect for this man. It took a lot of courage for him to rethink his life and admit he was wrong.
Hawkwind51 2 years ago 29
@Hawkwind51 yes he is
mobilechief 1 year ago
Most people DON"T rethink their life when they grow up; they continue the conditioning and racism they grow up with, and become even more extreme as they get older. Frank Schaeffer is in the extreme minority in escaping this fundamentalist mindset.....
JonDavidson 2 years ago 19
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Frank, I remember when you burst on the scene in the early 1980s and (almost personally) hijacked the evangelical movement for your (then) pet pro-life cause. You dragged them off message, and stirred up the loonies among them.
And now, judging by the responses to this video, you are whipping up the blood lust of the fringe types on the other side. In both cases, Frank, you seem satisfied only when you are stirring up hatred.
c42u 2 years ago
The way I see it, anyone who believes in the blind false christian religion, or, has blind faith in any politicians today is crazy! Believe Yourself!
chazisflying 2 years ago 3
As far as Obama goes, there is simply no way you can read the memos he sends to staff, or watch what is happening on gov 2.0 sties like nextgov or govloop and not realize that we have a great man working to honestly revolutionize the accountability of our government. That is change I can believe in because I'm participating in it. One day soon you will be able to spend a monthly income of a currency that represents your political capital as a means to participate in government at all levels.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Obama is a bald faced liar. We dont need or want his revolutionized accountability because so far he has been unaccountable and therefore he has robbed us of over 1 Trillion. He has plans for more destruction within his health plan. Soon you wont be able to spend your money because he is printing enormous amounts thus making our dollors worthless. He has over 30 CZARS in charge in trillions of tax dollors with NO accountability. He is a huge piece of crap. Youve hired an Marxist turd. ThankYou
mmac382 2 years ago
Yes, well your comment says little past your willingness to misrepresent reality to suit your perspective. Obama cannot make laws. Congress does that. He can make suggestions, and have the best of intentions, but ultimately the game played forces a great deal of bargaining and leaves us all exposed to special interests who deftly manipulate our system. The real fix is going to take a revolution in accountability made possible by a new transparency. You are looking backwards, and not ahead.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
And those whom dont remember thier history are doomed to repeat it. Do you really think there wont be special interest in OBAMAs society. He is controled totaly by special interest right now. Climate Control idiots, Unions, Admitted Marxist, you really need to become better informed.
mmac382 2 years ago
Since you are so smart mmac382, go gather up some of your white trash friends, buy some guns and start a revolution. I honestly look forward to putting you stupid people (who all think you are so TOUGH and SMART) to be put in your fucking place.
awgu 2 years ago 2
You are an idiot.
Please start a revolution or something so I can shoot you in the face.
Thanks.
awgu 2 years ago
The part Schaefer left out was after college you start to grow up and realize that the right is right. Is is so far off with his imature assesments its sad. Like most racists liberals he makes the fact that the Pres is black and issue. He makes money on race merchandising. We dont want to see OBAMA fail. Its just plain obvious he will fail and we dontwant to be dragged down with his Dumb arse.
mmac382 2 years ago
I sure am grateful that you show up to demonstrate the ignorance and stupidity of religious people so regularly. Obama has already done more for democracy than anyone since Lincoln. Government 2.0 is reinventing our nation (and entire world) more radically than even a bona fide revolution could. And the clueless racists, skinheads, and religious garbage hate him so much they aren't participating at all--so it's going rather well. We're actually likely to have a more open and honest government.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Schaefer is obviously another one of those people looking for an organization to nurse maid him through life. His parents obviously didnt keep score when he played soccer as a child and now he expects everything to be given to him. Of course God let him down at some point and so now he is agry because he didnt get what he wanted. Gods laughing at this guy saying ... "what? did this guy really expect me to take care of him all his life? What and idiot!"
mmac382 2 years ago
There is nothing magical about the supernatural either--its just another name we use to describe emergent phenomenon when we don't have a precise understanding of the mechanisms that would make it seem mundane (emergent vs supernatural.) The history of our species is basically the story of how intuitive heuristics that evolved to empower minds discovered the utility of genuine understanding and developed the techniques necessary to harvest it and empower themselves in ways new to evolution.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
There is nothing magical about non-physical things. Most the useful things we know of are metaphysical. The very language we're using for example. Your first premise is simply wrong. In an obvious way--math couldn't be better proof of how blatantly false it is too--Math is the only thing we can be utterly certain about--to know "for sure." Math would be what it is with or without a god, and there's nothing god can do to change that fact. Still, I am hoping you'll keep trying to explain.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Schaffer makes incredible sweeping generalizations of evangelical Christians that are absurdly untrue. He comes across as a pretty bitter individual.
johnlorican 2 years ago
I disagree. I don't see how much more morally bankrupt it's possible to become that evangelical Christian. It's so palpably absurd that it is a deep insult to anyone to even suggest it. All you're really saying is that you believe others are so fucking stupid that they might actually have something other than contempt for such a filthy perspective on reality.
"Would you mind if I come by and take a shit in your living room?"
That's a far less insulting question in my opinion.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
I find it interesting that you can make the accusation that evangelical Christianity is 'morally bankrupt' - while using the vulgarity 'f---ing stupid' and offering to 'take a s--t in your living room' in the very next sentences.
Liberally minded people simply can't leave a comment on YouTube without being vulgar. They seem to go hand-in-hand...
johnlorican 2 years ago
It's simply the best way I can find to convey how utterly reprehensible I find fraud that your ilk perpetrates on young children. Most of the words we have that convey our most passionate disgust are for various forms of excrement or other bodily secretions that are prone to harbor pathogens. I find it to be the most appropriate association because the ideology you endorse is a form of pathogenic secretion from very sick people. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to explain it.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
You're welcome for the opportunity.
Sadly, I can only imagine the influence on 'young children' that your comments equating faith in God to human excrement might be to impressionable young minds...
johnlorican 2 years ago
I'm just hoping they can see how treacherous a betrayal it is (to your own self and all humanity) to worship a dictator of any kind. That they can come to realize that the best proof that you are all just cowardly ignorant frauds is your completely lack of the most basic notion of what truth even is! The very last thing a genuine god-of-truth would want is any degree or respect or worship. We come to know truth by doubting it--by trying hardest to disprove that dogma we hold most dear.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
My friend, you routinely curse, you accuse all evangelical Christians of being 'cowardly ignorant frauds,' you make assertions of what a 'genuine god-of-truth' would want, you use human excrement as a tool for an analogy...if THIS is what a 'life without faith in God' is like, then please count me out...
johnlorican 2 years ago
Your comment is very telling and pretty much confirms what I've been saying about you. It suggests you aren't really interested in what might be true at all. As you say yourself--you have no interest in what a life without your faith might be like. There is no doubt that you can avoid dealing with any aspect of our world you don't wish to face. That's the primary means by which religion harms humanity and why decent people are so completely disgusted with what evangelicals have done to America.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
I'm always interested in 'what might be true.'
Always.
I simply have no interest in pursuing a life that involves vulgar, callous comments that center on human excrement and the dehumanization of others...
johnlorican 2 years ago
The dehumanization of others is the very basis of religion. It's what leads men like Paul Hill, or the terrorists in the middle east to murder others on the basis of nothing but an idea in their heads. I'm just pointing out the true nature of the industry you promote, how easy it is to see why it's just a fraud, and how intellectually and morally bankrupt it's adherent are as people. You've enjoyed immunity for the longest time, mostly by just killing those who opposed you but the party is over.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
No, dehumanization is when one compares another human being (whom he has never met in his life) to human excrement - and uses vulgarity in the process. No love, no warmth - just baseless attack.
I,of course, would agree with your assessment about murdering others for simply having an idea in their heads. That worldview typified the USSR, a 'paradise' free from religious influence which you so detest. That way of life only led to the death of millions at the hands of their own government.
johnlorican 2 years ago
More fraud from someone who is capable of little else. Cristopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, and Sam Harris do a good job of debunking that popular bit of misinformation spewed by theists to indict atheism when there is no real connection at all. I'm just happy to see you regurgitate here--further proving you don't even research the false claims you make. We wouldn't be capable of having this discussion if it wasn't for the ancestors who risked death to look for real answers outside of dogma.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Christianity was suppressed in the communist countries; millions died at the hands of tyrants like Joseph Stalin in the USSR and Mao Tse-Tung in China. Irrefutable.
I find it interesting that people like Dawkins refuses to debate prominent theists on his suppositions. At least Hitchens and Harris will debate issues - but, like most atheists, they seem to be very angry people - and lob venomous statements to others...
...come to think of it, much like yourself...
johnlorican 2 years ago
It's easy to believe honesty and integrity are very alien to you. But the point is that just because Hitler happened to be a vegetarian doesn't say a thing about vegetarianism as a mechanism for inciting amoral behavior. Scripture is filled with directives to kill people in the most cruel and brutal ways for the most minor and trivial mistakes--gathering wood on the Sabbath, disrespecting your parents (who hasn't?) Keep it up. You're making my case for me and reinforcing every claim about you.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
When a culture lacks freedom and religious liberty - rights that are, like the our founding documents state, 'endowed by our Creator,' then tyranny takes over - and never has that tyranny been more expressed in such a heinous way as in Communist Russia and China - where religious liberties were squashed and millions were murdered.
When religious liberties are strong, as in the United States, then people can act freely and live out their religious values, without governmental threat.
johnlorican 2 years ago
Ultimately you are advocating the "mind rape" of children. This is no less reprehensible in my opinion than the physical raping that the Catholic Church has gotten away with (and covered up) on a massive scale for many years. We regularly see frauds like Haggart emerge from the most successful Churches. We see men like Jeremy Wright use the pulpit to spew political propaganda. Just recently the Moron church was instrumental in reversing gay marriage rights. You encourage a lasting damage.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
I teach my children to love God - who first loved us and sent His Son, Jesus Christ to pay a substitutionary death on our behalf.
I teach my children to love other people, to pray for others, to pray for our President and our other leaders in government, to be kind to people and to 'do unto others as you would want them to do unto you.'
If in your mind that's 'mind rape' - then so be it; it sure beats an ethic of spewing hatred and vulgarity on a public website...
johnlorican 2 years ago
You have a sinister message to sell so you can't do it directly. I don't have that problem. My message doesn't impose such a morally confusing notion, that someone has to die for others to be forgiven for the sins of distant ancestors. The only reason you don't see it as mind rape is because you believe it. To anyone with a genuine sense of morality it teaches only that god is one hell of an immoral bully if we're still responsible for Adam and Eve. Or should your kids pay for your crimes?
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Nothing morally confusing about it.
Jesus died for the sins that I, personally, have commited - and for all the sins that each individual has ever done.
My belief - and acceptance of His substitutionary death - offers me the freedom to not cast hateful rhetoric towards the actions of others - which is why when you choose to spew vial comments towards me, I don't take any of them to heart.
My 'old nature' would had gotten mad; my 'new' nature through Christ desires to love you anyway.
johnlorican 2 years ago
I don't need a lot of inane sophistry to treat others with respect. If you want to love people who rape children, abuse their tax exempt status to achieve political ends, twist the teaching of biology, interfere with a woman's right to stay in control of her own body, and all the other crap you criminals get away with then don't expect me to respect you for it. Respect, to me, means being honest, seeking real understanding, and trying to become as great an asset to our biome as time permits.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
I think you need something to help you treat others with respect, my friend....you've treated me with as much disrespect as any human being can muster.
Now I guess I'm a 'criminal'....oh, well - I'll try harder to be a better person tomorrow (ha, ha!)....
Have a good evening.
johnlorican 2 years ago
Get real. If you proudly display the fact that you support NAMBLA then you've got to expect strangers to be simply disgusted with you. At first sight and from then on.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Why the bile - and the hatred?
You don't know me, you've never met me, I haven't done anything to harm you - and yet, in your very first comment, equated me with human excrement and threw some vulgarities my way.
Is that your way of saying 'hello' to strangers?
If anything, you've strengthened the prevailing stereotype that atheists are extremely unhappy people - who have genuine hatred for others who don't share their worldview.
johnlorican 2 years ago
Because the industry you support and promote does so much real measurable damage to our world. The most heinous crime is actually rarely even mentioned--robbing humanity of the fresh perspective that each new person can potentially discover in creating their internal model of our world. By indoctrinating children before they're even cognizant of the true nature of the claims you folks predispose them to a particular perspective rather than allow the freedom to discover explanations of their own.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
The only thing OBAMA has done is rob our country of trillions, foster an atmosphere of racism and hatred ( of course liberals are naturally hateful to begin with) and point our country to financial destruction. And thats all. Your just too stupid to know it. And you areafraid of religion. Now stop sobbing.
mmac382 2 years ago
Sometimes I think the best thing about Obama is the way he's become such a huge annoyance to the most ignorant and hateful segments of our population. I think the more angry and bitter fox news can make you folks the better off we'll all be after the coming elections. I hope you'll support Palin in 2012. No one better represents today's republican party.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Every parent offers their children a worldview - that includes non-theists 'predisposing' them to a worldview that there is no God.
Every Christian I know is very tolerant, very loving, prays for others, etc.
The only real hatred I've seen lately, quite frankly, are YOUR comments impugning me and everybody else who holds to a different perspective. Equating them to human fecal material, calling them 'cowardly' and 'mind rapers'...
...tell me, who is the hateful, intolerant one??
johnlorican 2 years ago
"..impugning me and everybody else who holds to a different perspective." A good example of the way you distort truth. I have indicted religion for the specific crimes it commits. That does not imply that I am equally intolerant of any view besides my own. It's the same way you misrepresent atheism as the motivation for the heinous crimes of psychotics. Your mission in life, past existing, is to infect as many others with the same toxic memes that control you. The fecal analogy is appropriate.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Atheism was not the motivation for the heinous crimes of communist regimes - however, by default, when tyrannical governments - without the checks and balances put forth through Judeo-Christian foundations - begin to see themselves as 'God, they rationalize all kinds of evil. Nazi Germany, Communist Russia/China, non-Judeo-Christian societies like most countries in the Middle East, all oppressed their citizenry - resulting in the deaths of millions upon millions - and that ties to unbelief.
johnlorican 2 years ago
Let me get this straight, despite all the crimes committed in the name of religion (and motivated directly it) and the fact that you do NOT consider atheism to play other than an enabling role in the crimes of tyrants you'll still use that as a reason to discredit atheism? And you wonder why I am so quick to accuse you of deliberate fraud? I can't believe you can't see how disingenuous that is. It isn't even relevant to the justification I gave for concluding that the god of Abraham is a fraud.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Religion is broad. It can mean anything from Islamofascists who fly airplanes into buildings to a 'Christian' wacko who murders an abortion doctor.
The truth is that communists - who had NO belief in a higher being - thus behaved as such - and rationalized every evil one could imagine. As a result, millions paid the price in countries that DELIBERATELY suppressed the learning of Christian ethics....so, yes, with a secular govenrment that outlawed Christianity, every action was permissible.
johnlorican 2 years ago
I have never advocated violence or any sort of force. Unlike you people, I wouldn't even vote to impair you freedoms in the slightest way. If I convince anyone of anything it's because I communicated a perspective that caused them to deliberately change their views. That is, in my opinion, the only legitimate win of any conflict.
You comments about communism are as ignorant and misrepresentative as most everything else you've said here. I honestly don't believe you are capable of reasoning.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
You can attribute horrific crimes to many secular institutions as well. Your fear of religion causes you to choose it as your scape goat. Thats fine. In the grand sceme of things you time on this earth (and your opinion) is insignificant. Your assumption about Fox news is interesting however. Where do you get your current event information?
mmac382 2 years ago
I have no fear of religion. Or god for that matter. I actually hope there is a god just so I can be a disappointment to it. In my reality, a dictator is simply evil. I don't care how well meaning, powerful, wise, or kind it might be. The fact that it isn't a dialog--that my will is irrelevant to it--makes gods will no less irrelevant to me.
God just doesn't live up to my standards. The very idea of original sin (that one could inherit responsibility for a crime) is a terribly immoral idea.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
ananawhatever - News flash - God doesnt expect anything out of you so you wont be a disappointment. And you spend most your time living in your moms basement typing away at your computer with no relevant purpose other than to seerve your own self loathing. You were probably molested by a priest at some time in your life and found you really liked it. So now you profess disdain for religion as a way of avoiding your inner guilt for wanting to meet Father Fondler once again.
mmac382 2 years ago
"God doesnt expect anything out of you so you wont be a disappointment."
Does this mean you agree the bible is full of shit? It makes a contrary claim.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
No It just means he understands there are those whom are usless and incapable of comprehension. Therefore you will be treated with a special little love and understanding. Yell upstairs and tell mom hi for me OK?
mmac382 2 years ago
Oh by the way. Am I to assume you are a member of the athiest religion?
mmac382 2 years ago
Believe it or not, but I mostly pity folks like you. It must suck to be in a nation based on personal liberty when you obviously hate many of those freedoms and think they reflect our intrinsic sinfulness. You can call me a bigot for being so vehemently against the mind rape of children, but I actually think that's something everyone should be bigoted about. I'm only trying to protect the most valuable resource we have--the fresh perspective each new person has the potential of discovering.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
What must really suck is forgetting to take your meds and finding yourself in some delusional reality where a thing called mind rape of children exist. If your refering to the whole "mmm mmm mmm Barack Hussien Obama" song then I can almost see you point but other than your childhood and Father Fondler I dont see your analogy. Oh ... I dont really need your pity.. thanks... Unlike you I can fend for myself. Now Yell up and tell mom to bring down the meds
mmac382 2 years ago
I think reasonable people are growing ever more skeptical of the utility of religion and believe that the coffin nail will come from a breakthrough in artificial intelligence and a deeper understanding of the means by which consciousness emerges from our minds. I'm mostly here to explain why thoughtful people find the religious industry so disdainful and destructive. I'm grateful that you're cooperating in that endeavor.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Im not sure what facts you use as a basis for you assumptions about reasonable people.Heck Im not sure you even associate or come in contact with such reasonable people." Do they show up in your basement at night? At any rate your whole AI thing has been a topic of discussion in the scientific community for decades. Many scientist profess religious beliefs. Those must be the stupid ones ...right? Anyway your a bit behind. You know Radon could explain your confusion. Do you have any detectors?
mmac382 2 years ago
As usual, you couldn't be more wrong:
BELIEF IN PERSONAL GOD (1914, 1933, 1998)
Personal belief 27.7, 15, 7.0
Personal disbelief 52.7, 68, 72.2
Doubt or agnosticism, 20.9, 17, 20.8
BELIEF IN IMMORTALITY
Personal belief 35.2, 18, 7.9
Personal disbelief 25.4, 53, 76.7
Doubt or agnosticism, 43.7, 29, 23.3
From a study in published in SCIENCE.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
OK So whats all this giberish about? It means nothing. Let me guess ... your saying there is scientific proof of a non-existant God? It really doesnt matter. The real issue is the intollerance of people like you. Your fear of the unknown incarcerates you to a life of anger and hate. Instead of getting out and experiencing real life. You relagate your existance to pouring over science journals and relinquishing your happiness to your mis-construed interpretations.
mmac382 2 years ago
You made a false statement; that most scientists are theists. I remembered seeing serious studies that showed a dramatic decline so I thought I'd set the record straight for readers.
While I agree I could make a case a lot more effectively if I don't loose sight of the fact that your are victims, not criminals. You intent is no less genuine than mine, and you should be respected for that. I think my anger gets the best of me because its become a way to avoid the sadness of the situation.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
I never said most scientist were atheist. I said there are some that have religious faith.
mmac382 2 years ago
I know. I even checked before typing 'most' and noted that you said many. I thought I did type many. Weird. But it doesn't change your misrepresentation of the truth--it's few, 7%, and was never many-even 94 years ago it was only a bit over a quarter of them.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Id 7% can be represented as many. Now if I said a majority thenthat would be a misrepresentation. However the point you missed was that people of scienc can have religious beliefs. The number is irrelevant
mmac382 2 years ago
Another misrepresentation of the whole point of that post which was to refute my claim that religion is in decline. The data shows the trend I claimed very clearly. An honest person would just acknowledge that and move on.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Maybethe post was based on your weak assumption but the comment was just a side note as an adjunct to conversation. It wasnt intended to refute anything. Trust me... anyhting you want to twist can beundone.
mmac382 2 years ago
You might want to read the WSJ 10/15/2009 page A16 - "Acorns Ally at the NLRB" - Its about another non-transparent OBAMA special interest pay off.
mmac382 2 years ago
Fact: Inverse relationship between IQ and religious belief.
The dumber you are the greater the chance you are religious.
Fact.
awgu 2 years ago
Are you smart enough to read history?
sconroy 2 years ago
Oh by the way. Iprobably can assume Im right about your living in moms basement, and Radon, and your not taking your meds and stuff. Oh yeah and the molestation by Father Fondler. Its alright God understands.
mmac382 2 years ago
If it's any consolation, I believe I assume people like you must be wicked because you seem too smart to believe what you claim, so I assume you're lying--because despite the fact that its false, it's the best thing we've got to encourage folks to be nice, so the lie is worth it.
But you really aren't lying. And you're just as passionate about becoming the best you can be as I am. It's a very hard thing for me to accept because it seems so fantastic. But I'll try to keep it in mind as I post.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Are you still blothiating your selfhating BS. I thought you might have gave up by now. You like this Schaeffer guy are afraid and dont understand religious faith. I thought I explained this to you already. Now go back to your bedroom and climb under the covers and cry out for your mommy. You just dont get it. You wouldnt know the truth if it kicked you in the vigina. You just like to hearyourself talk.. and talk , and talk...
mmac382 2 years ago
And to those saying that religion caused so much bloodshed and destruction in the world that it is crazy or stupid to support it.
That really is a weak argument and doesnt make you sound very intelligent.
Science has given us the ability to destroy all life on the planet 100x over. Known athiests like Mao,Pol Pot, Lenin, Stalin. Killed many millions.
Im sure as hell not going to give up on atheism because the human race is a flawed animal.
rdrakken 2 years ago
I'm against it because it is antithetical to everything about truth. It harms a person's ability to be objective and impartial in forming an internal model to reflect the reality we believe is out there. This is the most precious gift we as individuals have to offer our world--the potential to discover a more empowering perspective usually via a better understanding of the mechanism actually responsible for the phenomenon around us. Religion destroys that most wonderful fruit of our species.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
"everything about truth"
Unless you can prove 100% that there is no God....you cant claim to know the truth. Just like if you cant prove 100% that there IS a God...
So please, do NOT try to take the high road in terms of knowledge by saying things like that.
BTW, saying what you did is just as harmful to being objective and impartial...how can you claim to be that when you make such statements.
rdrakken 2 years ago
"Unless you can prove 100% that there is no God....you cant claim to know the truth." Nonsense. You can't prove there isn't a teapot in orbit around Venus either. It doesn't mean anyone should take the claim seriously. Religion is making an even more absurd claim and should be ridiculed for that alone. What I said about truth goes--we don't come by truth via evidence, but via our failed attempts to disprove what we surmise best explains something. Religion is just philosophical pornography.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Way to prove you are objective and impartial.
Pseudo-Intellectualism has turned atheism into a circus of fraudulent arguments made of strawmen.
The very reason why I will never call myself an Atheist even though I claim no religion. down right shameful as well as laughable.
rdrakken 2 years ago
You can call me wrong until the heat death of the universe and it won't rescue that garbage or your perspective.
What you can't do is make any kind of a case to support the endorsement or worship of dictators of any sort. And I'll continue to ridicule imbeciles like you too cowardly to have faith in their own ability to reason things out. Faith that our world is ruled by an entity is simply stupid no matter how you look at it. I think that might be the whole point of it: make work for morons.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
you could at least reply to me directly if you are going to say shit like that so I can refute what you say.
You speak poorly of Religions without KNOWING one way or the other if there is a God and do so in a way as if you DO know the truth. It does not matter if no evidence points to it, does not matter if it sounds moronic. YOU DONT KNOW. No side has the high ground because no side KNOWS.
And that is why your pseudo-intellectualism is laughable.
rdrakken 2 years ago
"You speak poorly of Religions without KNOWING one way or the other."
But you are assuming that our positions are symmetric--that the odds are 50-50. It's not the case. You are asserting a very fantastic claim, and need proof that is proportionally substantial. I am making no such claim by pointing out how stupid your reasoning is. It's just a political technology for selling a bogus ideology to morally indolent garbage too cowardly to take responsibility for their own decisions.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
The fact that you claim ANYTHING is substantial or not proves your limited intellect.
You simply CANNOT know the odds, you are making base judgements without knowing anything.
our knowledge of our own planet is extremely limited and our knowledge of the universe is even MORE limited so how can ANYONE on either side lay claim to having a better perspective of what is or is NOT true?
Your claims are as outrageous as theirs.
rdrakken 2 years ago
All you're doing is demonstrating poor reasoning skills. We know a lot of things about our world and have excellent reasons for believing that the scientific method is SUBSTANTIALLY better than the stupidity of scripture. Predicting things like superconductivity, or the bending of light by gravity, etc. proves the superiority of the approach for achieving a useful understanding of our world. The universe doesn't have room for god. Religion is just food for flies that like to suck on shit.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
I am using poor reasoning by realizing that knowledge of the physical world does not translate into knowing about non-physical things?
***IF*** there is a God, it would have existed BEFORE material existance thus nothing we know can apply to it.
Yes, that is how small minded you are.
You keep using an apple to orange comparison, science and religion are not in the same field of study. One is a study of the material, the other of spiritual.
More proof you are like what you hate.
rdrakken 2 years ago
There are so many ways that religion harms humanity that you really have to be one hell of a selfish piece of shit to endorse it at all. From the real everyday trauma brought to gays, educators, and scientists, to the disgusting perspective it leaves people with (that we can't be sure about anything, that the world is a mysterious place, etc) to the needless divisions and conflicts that follow--it's way worse than second hand smoke. It's just a rank form of philosophical pornography. Yeeech!
ananiasacts 2 years ago
And from that, a fanatic is born! Why do you fail to see your own hypocrisy? Religion is imperfect, but so is sugar to a diabetic. The search should be for a sweatner that doesn't spike your insulin levels making you ill. Philosophy and alternative searches are at least less fanatical. Why would you destroy the whole thing. I mean, the east at least offers a much more interesting point of view. And don't talk to a gay man about defending religion I'm well aware of what vile SOME of them spew.
fringefries 2 years ago
I actually don't want to destroy it. That would create a lot of trauma needlessly. I'd rather see it fixed (wrote a blog essay explaining how--"Religion could be our best invention.") The point is that it does massive damage today and should not be tolerated in its present form. The goal is great---let's make it a genuine science--the search for that set of beliefs which most predisposes us to find meaningful, mutualistic, fulfilling lives. Knowledge of any kind just cannot be sacrosanct!
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Next time you hit reply make sure it isn't to a comment I made. Click on 'Post a text comment' duh
abby495 2 years ago
Thom mentions town hall meetings. Those outraged plebans those folks it was paid for by Freedomworks.You have probably heard of them non profit *rolls eyes* orgainization like Americans for Prosperity. Funded by oil tycoon Koch.But the viewer at home doesn't know.These fringe freaks make up a small percentage but the propoganda hate machine is trying to convince us they are normal everyday folk protesting.Alie. Deceitful bastards.Its ok it is time for another scandal.I love Frank Schaeffer lol
abby495 2 years ago
Poverty exists because the people who use more than their share of the pollution absorbing capacity of the earth need not pay those who must have used less for that taking of that property. The impact of resource use is shared by everyone, but the benefit goes mostly to the user. Without redressing that impact, we create a situation where the wealthier you get, the greater the subsidy you enjoy via this mechanism. This err is essentially enforcing a huge transfer of wealth form poor to rich.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
By those pieces of shit I mean just about every other Republican &stupid person who doesn't read. He's not a facist. He doesn't agree with the Patriot wants our liberties back. Don't compare shits like Bush & Reagon to Dr. Ron Paul who is worthy of respect. My goal is to know the truth don't care if you think I'm a 9/11 truther you're just another tool who doesn't know shit about history. What do gov'ts do when they want to start a war or take your liberties away? Hitler did it. So did Bush.
abby495 2 years ago
Gore Vidal said he's talked to republican leaders and has been raised amongst the ruling class. He said the contempt the ruling class has for the people is total. And if anyone is on the side of the people they're a soft hearted liberal or they've been "taken in."
DaHonestAbe 2 years ago
Not really. I just want to know the truth
abby495 2 years ago
I am reading Ann Coulter's book "how to talk to liberal' and I just want to reach across and slap her. She is such a hateful c*nt. Everything she wrote about is biased lies. All you have to do is switch Republican w/ Democrat and you will get closer to the truth. It is a mental illness that can only be cured with a bullet. I don't know how Bill Mahr dated that idiot. LOL she thought Canada sent troups to Vietnam. Wow such dogma and hidden agenda's TOO CREEPY for Halloween. Ron Paul is pragmatist
abby495 2 years ago
Youre surprised by this?
DaHonestAbe 2 years ago
Ron Paul is right about foreign policy, but tell me abby, how is it that you can believe in a completely failed conservative idea like "letting the corporations do it and get the government out of the whole business." Ron Pauls words not mine. We've seen the result of that when reagan and bush sr. deregulated everything. IT'S A FAILURE abby! IT DOESN"T WORK. It never really has. Oh, and stop playing both sides of the fence in the crazy department you're comming of as a 9/11 truther nutjob.
fringefries 2 years ago
I don't agree with all he says obviously. I believe in Financial aide & more help from the governmen. He wants the states to handle fraud & wants corporations to be regulated. That would have been a good idea but it is too late now. He's radical in a way that makese sense. He doesn't like the Federal Reserve.I respect him yeah even if I don't agree with it all. Even if he doesn't realize everyone isn't born w/ same advatanges he's a better man than the other pieces of shit.He's not a hypocrite.
abby495 2 years ago
I'm with you on the federal reserve. I didn't even realize it was a private entity until about a year ago. Our debt is double because of them. Time to sy bye bye to that whole idea and start something that has the interests of the people at hand.
fringefries 2 years ago
I'm not here to debate about anything or do to your homework for you. I am here to find truth for myself. Debate is futile some people are born stupid they don't read they don't care they are brainwashed. They fall for the propoganda that is their problem. I have a very low opinion of people as it is and don't believe that people will actually pick up a history book and read it to discover in time about what is really going on in this country. Hopless pathetic tools
abby495 2 years ago
I want to know how a rich guy like him doesn't can't have empathy for others even if there are Jesus posters all over his house. Must be a mental block?Insanity. It is also the idea of being Supreme because he is white. I know another rich conservative with Fibromyalgia in her 40's. Why care about healthcare her dad still pays for everything. She has no job but complains about 'Mexicans' and welfare recepients.They don't realize what a facist monster they have become. WWJD? Absolutely not this.
abby495 2 years ago
The two people you just addressed are prime examples of folks on "socially acceptable" forms of welfare. Both live off trust funds. My parents are exactly like them, but wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone else who needs it. This is a cultural phenomenon that this country has produced..human cancers who take and consume to the point that they think that's what life is about..and consider others as nothing more than competition for resource.
p717 2 years ago
Those Republican dotheads make me sick. I can't even talk to them anymore. Talking about Mexicans and welfare and bitching about taxes. I hope they burn with their precious money miserable b*tch and bastard. They are both mentally ill LOL I changed my number so I wouldn't have to talk to such stupid pin heads who think Reagan was a great prez. *barf*
abby495 2 years ago
Keep your God and his rules out of governance. Was the dark ages not enough?
NUMAIroom 2 years ago 9
not that I am arguing for God in governance but...the dark ages was not due to religion it was due to barbarians coming to power after the fall of Rome.
They were the "dark" ages because the "light" of knowledge was lost in the world.
And no, I am not saying that religion did not help keep knowledge down, it did, in Europe...but it also flourished under Islam in the middle east during those same years Europe was in the dark ages.
rdrakken 2 years ago
Why would the god of truth wish to be respected? We discover truth by doubting it, the last thing we'd ever want truth to be considered it sacred--it might stop someone from questioning it in a way that disproved it. The most basic idea of religion--that an entity embodying all knowledge, truth, justice, etc. wants to be acknowledged and respected to so precisely backwards that it deserves our most ardent ridicule and disgust. We pay too dearly for truth to tolerate the pollution of it.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
you do know you didnt say an actual thing related to what I said...in all that...wtf.
rdrakken 2 years ago
Actually I did. I explained why it's so easy to conclude that the god of Abraham is a crock of shit.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
YUP.Jesus was plagarized from Egyptian mythology. In 2500BC Egyptians worshipped the Sun& their religion was based on astrological cycles of the cosmos.Horus, sun god has same exact story as Jesus born of virgin Dec 25, his death, resurrection,ascention. The 10 commandments are also found in Egyptian book of the dead. Christians just stole that idea. Noah's Ark was stolen from Epic of Gilgamesh written in 3600 BC.All true I'm afaid..
abby495 2 years ago
I know it's a crock. Complain to Frank. He thinks he is being wise by discrediting the fundamentalists while he himself endorses the religion! How stupid does that religion make people? Is Frank honestly too myopic to realize that it's the moderates like him grocery shopping the bible for what they want to believe that enable the pathological assholes to go so overboard with that dogma? The fundamentalists may be a nuisance, but they at least have the integrity to actually stick to the dogma.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Frank Schaefer is not a moderate. Frank Schaefer believes in God that's true. Who are you to say that the mystery doesn't go deeper than the dinosaurs or even beyond the Judeo Christian concept of deity? You're just another screwed up libertarian atheist who used to be a republican but now that, that word is worse than the word liberal you've decided to run away run away run away. Dude i've met so many people like you it's not funny.
fringefries 2 years ago
I meant moderate Christian obviously. Who is to say the god of truth couldn't possibly want respect? Anyone with a brain. If you can't figure that out you might be as stupid as Frank.
Who am I running from exactly? How have you met me? Are you delusional?
ananiasacts 2 years ago
You're assuming that Frank believes in the books that weren't excluded from the council of Niceum. Why do think the Catholic Church FEARS the Gnostic Gospels so much? Maybe the truth transcends all conceptual fabrications and invalidates any attempts at catagorization. That would challenge your ability to be so cocky and judgemental. In fact it neutralizes your ability to actually counter argue. You want to side with the cult of insanity? Go right ahead they'll tare you apart.
fringefries 2 years ago
"Maybe the truth transcends all conceptual fabrications and invalidates any attempts at catagorization. "
Which implies we can never know anything for sure, which implies the statement is meaningless since we can't know if we can't know. And why that line of reasoning is so meaningless. Unless your'e just trying to be confusing because you really have no defense for your original point. The fact is that we come by truth by trying to disprove it and always failing. All "found" dogma is BS.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
If you have no understanding of far eastern philosophy then all attempts to penetrate using classical logic will fail you. Do some studying. Read a book and get back to me. Start with Laotzu
fringefries 2 years ago
Ah yes, the "I'm too intelligent to speak with you" cop out.
If you understand something, you can explain it.
If you're full of shit. You do stuff like you're doing here.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
No, what I'm saying is that one can gain insight into sartori through meditation, but finding ultimate truth is another thing. I didn't say I had found it I just don't buy the cynicism of logical slight of hand that tries to disprove it's existance or non-existance since (it) for a lack of a substantial definition is beyond dualistic thinking. Again, insight to these things have been gleamed through the centuries and aren't just mysticism and superstition.
fringefries 2 years ago
Nice demonstration of what I was claiming about you as you were writing it!! Perfectly predictable pinhead.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
EPIC FAIL
abby495 2 years ago
Yes abby, Zeitgeist is EPIC FAIL and has been debunked. I wanted to believe it too but the research just isn't there. So, continue with your ignorance no ones going to stop you.
fringefries 2 years ago
After all if it's only mysticism and superstition then explain modern sciences acceptance of chinese accupunture? Please don't try to get around that question if you do it only invalidates any other follow up from you and then you lose this game of chess.
fringefries 2 years ago
It's only a game to a fraud like you. Now you have to resort to a discussion of acupuncture to disprove my claim that religion nothing but a political tool? You're kidding me, right? The bottom line on acupuncture is that our bodies are fantastically complex, and it's quite possible that there plenty of technologies outside of western medicine that may have therapeutic utility--but that has absolutely nothing to do with what we can deduce about any god that might exist.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Never said a God exists and Frank is allowed to believe what he will. He just saw the hatred and hypocrisy of the right wing CULT OF INSANITY that has plagued our nation for so long. You attempted to make these monsters into heroes by being as insane as they are. Talk about dogmatic your posts are the ultimate example of stale dogmatism and tedious socratic slight of hand. Have you nothing but Ad-hominem attacks and scorn for your fellow man? Sorry, the accupunture reply was lame.
fringefries 2 years ago
Frank's a bigger hypocrite than the fundamentalists are. Christianity would be dead if it wasn't for the assholes like Frank that ignore the bits they don't like. No one would tolerate it if every Christian behaved as if they believed the bible was true. That's the problem--there is no religion in it at all. It's just a political tool--a means to deodorize a foul agenda by associating with this myth that religion makes people more morally astute. The opposite is the case. Bush made it too real.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
You have NO idea what Frank Schaefer believes. He may have come to the same conclusions that Joseph Campbell came to when he said that God is only a word that expresses the highest thought that escapes catagorical thinking. I agree religion has been a tool used by some, but there are sincere people who believe and have faith and pray and toil and give to their fellow man till it hurts. Christianity in American has adopted this Gospel of Greed that is never mentioned by Christ.
fringefries 2 years ago
He says he is a Christian, That's endorsing that industry. You can claim he has something else in mind, but then he shouldn't call it Christianity. If I say I'm all for molesting children, but by molesting I mean cooking them a healthy meal, then I'd better make that qualification with every single utterance or I risk being associated with the more common definition of the term. The bible seems to agree with the fundamentalists, not Frank. So he's the one that needs to use another word.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
One can believe in the philosophy of Christ, nothing wrong with that is there. And by that one can qualify themselves as a Christian. After all who's making the rules here you? Me? Frank Schaefer? God? Logic? Daffy Duck? Benjamin Disraeli? Art Garfunkel? Hermione Gingold? A tree? Seltzer water? WHO IS IN CHARGE? No one. I'm not trying to mock you I'm just making a point that Frank is a repentant man who saw rampant abuse and is only human. He needs a God because he's flawed as are we all.
fringefries 2 years ago
The speakers of the language have the last word. If using the word Christian becomes enough of a nuisance then perhaps the fake ones, like Frank, will use another. The bible is pretty clear and I don't see which tenets of Christ's philosophy that he's adopted. Have no thought for tomorrow (the main idea) doesn't seem to be part of Franks ideology. No vow of poverty there. Do we have to give Jesus or God credit for any good anyone might do for any reason? Make a case besides it's his right.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
So the books of the bible chosen by the Catholic church is what your whole argument rests upon? You realize of course that the Gnostics have a totally different take on the resurrection right? I hate to say this, but who died and made the Catholic church God? You don't see the tenets he's adopted? Of course you don't neither do I, but how do know he doesn't give to the poor( a main tenet of christs) or have a bit of the baptist in him? Is he not calling out the pharisees of his age? I think so.
fringefries 2 years ago
It has nothing to do with any of the scriptures. It's more fundamental. A god of truth wouldn't wish to be respected--it's no way to teach integrity, kindness, or even piety. If god had wanted us to have the philosophy of Christ the bible would teach us that our soul actually resides in everyone except us. The bible would teach us that the idea that might be close to sacrosanct is that no knowledge of any kind ever benefits from anything but our most sincere and ardent skepticism. God too.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Just got your message.. Ironically, we want exactly the same things obviously. Why, oh why, isn't the scientific method good enough for you? It's been such boon to conversation! Why not give up the single thing that makes religion such a nuisance--the idea that it might be true, and embrace the obvious intent of it directly? Is it not okay to make a science out of trying to understand how mythological ideas can better empower us to find wholesome lives for ourselves? I just don't see why not.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Religion has only resulted in terrible bloodshed, destruction. All in favor of respecting,the natural world common sense, taking care of the earth, using sound judgement say aye. Really after one gets older reads about the histery(hysteria) of human race &psychology you are more likely to be Wiccan Pagan anything else.We have poisoned our home! I know the Earth will take out her Vengance on us for defiling her so including the animals we tortured on assembly lines because we are cruel!No mercy!
abby495 2 years ago
If we fuck up the climate, we'll not doubt get some feedback confirming it. But I'm more optimistic than I've ever been. Gov 2.0 is real, and promises to dramatically improve our world. (Be a part of it at nextgov, or govloop, or some other site.) But once we have a meaningful role in government, we can better appreciate how the choices we make in life affect us, we really will elect better leaders and make wiser policy decisions.. And it will happen fast. The web is less than 20/yo.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Never heard of Gov 2.0. I will look it up : )Yes I love the web. For the first time I can actually get news hear about actual things that happened. I don't have a tv anymore because it is crap and they never report the truth anyway.
abby495 2 years ago
I like docuticker com for news.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
I'll take a look hadn't heard of that one. BBC, rachel maddow, pbs, air america is great, associated press, reuters, youtube lol
abby495 2 years ago
I don't care what Frank believes all I know is that he called you dumbsh*ts village idiots. You have absconded Christianity. Furthermore it doesn't matter because we now know that Christianity is a fabrication taken from the Egyptians who preceeded him. I found this out a few days ago. So nevermind all that you can go on being the village idiot. I am not here to debate. Challenge LOL. LOL the truth doesn't transcend itself you fool. Will they 'tear' me apart? Who? Take your meds lol.
abby495 2 years ago
abby, your narcisism is making you believe that these posts are to you. Calm down and stop watching Zeitgeist on youtube it's been refuted and demolished already by the best scholars.
fringefries 2 years ago
No one post was to me and I replied to it. I commented to anan and I also posted something else about townhall meetings. I don't see why you are getting your panties in a bunch.
abby495 2 years ago
The mystery originated with the Egyptians so if we are to worship anything let us worship the Sun. Jesus is the SUN personified into a PERSON. 2500BC they PRE DATE him get it? I don't know what the truth is but there are alot of Messiahs with the same stories, Horus, Mithra,Attis, Krishna just about every culture has one way before Jesus. And none of those say we are the one and true religion. Only Christianity says that for political control of the masses at the time. Even now.
abby495 2 years ago
Frank probably believes in Jesus & all that but doesn't like the monster that religion has become. At least he told the truth that the right wing fox people are hatemongers and it wasn't meant to be about hating your country, gays, non whites and being callous rich and uncaring of the poor. But he can't go the extra step because he has faith from what I understand he didn't want his faith to be bastardized.
abby495 2 years ago
" Because he has faith from what I understand he didn't want his faith to be bastardized."
I don't buy it. People's behavior is an indicator of their beliefs, not what they say. How often have you seen someone behave as if they don't have faith in their money? It's totally faith based and we have no trouble sharing an almost perfect identical faith in it--a totally made up thing. Yet most of these phony Christians will tell you they have more faith in god. They don't think when they speak.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
It is hard to say because they believe alot of crazy stuff. For example the bible makes you give up natural urges and way of life for spiritual and in so doing who knows what type of psychological demons come out or in what way the frustration of being unable to be 'human' manifests itself. Really it is a tough road for one who is serious and not in it for the money. But I don't doubt that alot of them are phony. Hypocricy is always abundant. Thinking isn't their forte blind faith is.
abby495 2 years ago
Thank you for saying that. Esp the last sentence you are a ROCK STAR!!!
abby495 2 years ago
LOL Jesus isn't even real. The entire story was lifted right out of the Egyptian book of the dead. Furthermore there were other Messiahs prior to Jesus which Justin Martyr attributes to the deception of the Devil who is probably not real either. Although I need to do more research about him/her.
abby495 2 years ago
Yeah the Christian barbarians who if you didnt believe exactly as they did tore your skin off with oyster shells and visited all types of horrors on you.
It flourished in Islam because the Ottoman Empire did not persecute Christians.They gave everyone a change not just the Artistocracy anybody in the empire to come forth display their skill. Muslims were progressive then. They named the stars you know.I bet it was their religion taking it too literally that brought them down.
abby495 2 years ago
fringefries is just another cowardly Christian worm who's invested so much of his life in that trash giving it up is too scary, or would be politically too expensive. So he listens to sophists look for ways to spin that garbage into something he himself can belief. And the best guys like that can do is refer to books they can't explain and cower from any real challenge. He knows it's a crock. He's just too much of a phony to admit it.
ananiasacts 2 years ago
Actually, the Mongols brought them down.
After the destruction of Baghdad they never recovered. It went from the center of learning in the world almost to the stone age.
rdrakken 2 years ago
That is why I said 'I bet' because I'm not done learning about the Ottoman empire. It is too bad Muslims/Arabs have become what they are today. They were magnificient. Now they are barbaric because of their culture but I suspect also influence of the Koran which they follow to the LETTER. Koran looks good on paper but in actuality it is never that way. Same as Christianity. Religion has caused horror & destruction to mankind because it ignores humanism. God said it so we must do it.
abby495 2 years ago
Abby, again. How could the Koran be responsible for their staying down seeing as how it was due to the Koran that they became so great? :)
It was politics that changed. just like how politics changed Christianity into the thing we have today. Rome took control of it, made Jesus the son of a God that was born from a virgin and rose from the dead. Proof that was added comes from books found from early christian sects that paint a different Jesus.
Also, religion isnt the cause, its the excuse
rdrakken 2 years ago
I'm with Patrick Henry GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH
abby495 2 years ago
It is written 'Give to God what is God's and to Caesar what is Caesar's 'Matthew 22:21. This means if you are Christian you have no place in politics. So all these idiots who want to talk about 'Bury Obamacare with Kennedy' are disobeying God. They should be worshipping God and staying the H8ll out of the way of the government and mind their own d*mned business. Go to the hill and wait for Jesus to come back or go kill yourself but stop meddling you are destroying this country you freaks.
abby495 2 years ago 2
Yes abby, you've got it these people are lost, twisted freaks who shit on our flag and then dare to salute it in the name of their lost vision of the gospels. We are commanded to love one another not destroy out of wrath. Last time I checked vengeance belonged to God not man. Unfortunately, it's going to take an armed confrontation with these people to bring all Americans to the same conclusion about the religious right.However, we can't be the ones who instigate it we have to let them fire 1st.
fringefries 2 years ago
I'll be right ready waiting ready to bring about the bi