FreedomFest 2007 - Ron Paul & Doug Casey Vs Neocons (Part 4/7)

[TWSceptic]

@Re5Publica Anyone who shows disrespect to Doug Casey the way you do only proves to the world how ignorant they are. If I thought you would be worth my time, I would have given you my arguments and explained why you're wrong. But I decided it's not worth it and thought it would be better to leave you in your blissful ignorance.

[kanthopoulos]

Doug Casey:

Honest, wise and decent.

[fkdiesel1]

i heard was arrested on child molestation charges back in 89

[anyfekinnamewilldo]

Much as I like Doug Casey, I don't think he understands the motivations of the Islamists. These people don't want to attack America because of its foreign policy. Just listen to the language of Salafi Jihadists; they see the US within the historic context of Muhammed attacking the Byzantines (to West of Arabia) and Russia as the Persians (East) and it is their intention to overthrow 20+ Arab states & replace it with an Islamic super state. Lunatic theocrats with apocalyptic weaponry..not good!

[Re5Publica]

Who's this guy? It's like they found him in some internet chat room and decided he was qualified.

The attacks on 9\11 were an act of war, Al-Qaeda issued a fatwah declaring war against the U.S. in '98.

They attack us because we attack them? They attack us because we interfere with their plans, and so we should. Their grievances aren't rational. Bin Laden said U.S. bases in Arabia were there to "attack Muslims", but we know they were there to liberate Muslims in Kuwait from Saddam's armies.

[MengersDisciple]

Re5Publica -

Yes, they have no qualms about the puppet regimes the US props up in the Middle East to oppress the people there. Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Turkey...

We would probably also welcome Chinese and Russian army bases in the US to liberate us from the tyrannical regime in DC? And greet them as liberators? And ask them to remain forever on US soil?

Oh, how nice of us to be liberating them from evil!

Looks like you are the one from the Internet chat room.

[Re5Publica]

If you're seriously making the argument that al-Qaeda are against tyranny itself, and not secular tyranny, and liberal democracy, than you don't know what they believe.

We can't conceivably alienate all undemocratic countries, France was America's ally when it was an absolute monarchy.

I don't think you know what propping up puppet regimes means, because it doesn't apply to any of the countries you mentioned.

Comparing the government in D.C., to Saddam's is blatant intellectual dishonesty.

[MengersDisciple]

I challenge you to walk the streets of Baghdad and declare:

1. That the US brought freedom to Iraqis

2. That they are better off today than they were under Saddam

3. That they should feel proud they have a say in their current regime.

And try the same in those other countries.

To know what they believe and use to recruit, just watch the reasoning bin Laden put out on tape and start to think for yourself rather than chug down pre-digested garbage spewed out by people frothing at the mouth.

[Re5Publica]

Al-Qaeda wants to overthrow secular Arab regimes, to create a theocratic empire. He supported Egyptian Islamic Jihad when they assassinated Anwar Sadat, who was considered too secular, and loathed for making peace with Israel (for which he won the Nobel peace prize). Osama considers Arabia too secular.... Have YOU read his fatwahs? He laments U.S. policy reversal on East Timor, from supporting a brutal Muslim occupation to independence for its Christian majority (guess which policy he disliked)

[MengersDisciple]

May be the incentive to attack the US has something to do with the empire we have around the world. Why not secular Switzerland?

I could try and explain to you how coercion (forcing "our" way - the better way - onto others) is a sick and twisted tendency in human beings, but that realization has to come from within oneself.

What "they" want in their lands is for them to determine.

Also you should look up "blowback" and read Michael Shauer's writings. He was the chief of CIA bin Laden unit.

[Re5Publica]

The claim that we imposed government-by-consent in Iraq is a contradiction in terms. Saddam's regime was sustained by fear and coercion, all tyranny is. The government that now exist in Iraq was chosen by the people of Iraq.

"They" are not the majority of Iraqis. To say such a thing, when "they" threatened to kill Iraqis who dared go and vote in the elections is pretty shameful. What you're saying is, you want the most brutal and totalitarian people to determine how others should live.

[MengersDisciple]

Sorry, I meant to hit reply to your later comment and hit remove instead...

[Re5Publica]

Yeah, thanks a lot :P

[jofoatminn]

@Re5Publica So if the latin kings or the bloods blew up some building in China, then China would be justified in invading the US and Canada? You are truly pitiful.

[Re5Publica]

@jofoatminn al-Qaeda's a street gang now? They're an international terrorist group with a global political objective, and were harboured by the Afghan taliban government. No thinking person is going to buy your analogy.

[kessass83]

@Re5Publica Rockefeller, who runs Council on Foreign Relations and forms foreign policy for US, stated himself in private conversation to one Jewish film producer, who before his death opened up and made interview in which stated: There is no real Terrorist. We created it and we can fight it to infinity because there is no real enemy.

[Re5Publica]

@kessass83 So, it's your view that the thousand or so terrorist attacks within Iraq, Afghanistan, and around the globe never happened, or were committed by phantoms, and you're convinced of this because you allegedly heard or read somewhere that a guy named Rockefeller told some dead jewish film producer (his name would've been more relevant than his religious or ethnic affiliation) that terrorism doesn't exist?

Do you honestly expect intelligent people to take what you said seriously?

[TWSceptic]

@Re5Publica Wow you're so incredibly ignorant it's hard to even grasp it.

[Re5Publica]

@TWSceptic You're incredibly ignorant too... hell, that's so easy to say, now I understand why you didn't bother making an argument.

[asdf52535]

This guy was terrible....not in the same league as the other 3 speakers. It's really too bad because the debate was great up until this point.