You right we can go on with this paul thing forever and a day. Paul was an issue as soon as he came on the scene and he will allways be an issue that wont be resolved just because you and I are disscussing it.
@livingtorah I approved your video response. For the record I disagree with it. This is not a salvation issue it is a understanding one that I have been through many times with other. I hope we can still be friends and that we can midrash together even with these disagreements.
@paulgem123 Amein brother Messiah called us to be brothers and friends. I have no ill feelings towards you or anyone that agree with the Pualine letters.
What happens is that we try to explain things away with words that are not in the TORAH when you say Paul quoted Jer 31:31-34 that's not intirely true because he quoted some of it then began to add his own understanding that stuff about the old vanishing and all of that is not said in the TORAH.Quote= to speak or write (a passage) from another usually with credit acknowledgment. paul did not speak or write what was said in Jermiah verbatim. He added to it.
@paulgem123 that is the problem with rabbinic and pastoral offices that messiah says not to seek after but that paul establishes. They begin to speak all these commentaries and create new ideas that become doctrine and gospel with no authority from messiah or the TORAH that is Messiah.commentaries are just that commentaries not TORAH.If paul was a commmentator then let him be that but his words are not gospel they are comments on the TORAH with no authority other then that that comes frm gamiel.
@livingtorah Back to Torah, Paul did not establish offices. That was done in Torah when YHWH told him that if he could not handle all the complaints of the people then appoint judges over the people. It is not only Torah, but logical according to our court systems of today. Let's get off the Paul thing and on with the purpose of this video.
@paulgem123 This is messiah reluctant to give anybody position and this is paul saying Messiah gave positions.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
@paulgem123 I believe Apollos was the author and that is why the letter is anonymous because the hebrew people would be reluctant to accept a letter expounding on torah from a person that carries the name of a pagan diety.But regardless of the authur all those men you listed as possible authors are of the same tree, Paul and so their characters and speach sound alike.
Never had a problem with Hebrews, in fact what you say about the new covenant, Jesus Christ, Yahshua said Himself about the old and the new wineskins.
Both wineskins are preserved but only one leads to salvation which is the new covenant, new wineskin.
@infamos So if what you said is true...Were Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses saved in the old wine skin? I think it is more accurate to address it as the Renewed Covenant as it is ANEW by Y'shua but still points back to the same set of standards which was broken then and now.
@paulgem123 yes Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses were saved, you can add David, Jeremiah, Elijah, prophets etc. The account of the prophets rising from the grave after Yahshua did is in the 'new testament', I believe the 24 elders of Revelation are representative symbolically of those who met salvation via the old covenant.
There was a way of salvation before the "renewed" covenant as you call it. Both were initiated and sanctified by the Father
Romans 16:21, Phillipians 1:1, 1 Thess 3:2, 1 Tim 1:18, 2 tim 1:2, Philemon 1:10. The Marganitha, an ancient Aramaic source, states that there are "fourteen epistles of the Great Apostle Paul..." which include Hebrews.
According to aent Rav Shaul wrote Hebrews, however the church founder Origen once expressed that " only God knows who wrote this", but in the Middle East their are no doubts. Clement, Eusebius and Jerome state that Hebrews was originally writen in Hebrew. All the earliest Aramaic end with "written from Italy ...sent by the hands of Timothy". Timothy was imprisoned along side of Paul and released beforehand to deliver Paul's letters.
You right we can go on with this paul thing forever and a day. Paul was an issue as soon as he came on the scene and he will allways be an issue that wont be resolved just because you and I are disscussing it.
livingtorah 1 year ago
Hebrews 8:8-13 is not a direct quote of Jeremiah 31:31-34. At least not the Hebrew.
Hebrews 8:9 says "I turned away from them", while
Jeremiah 31:32 says "I was a husband unto them".
preachinshawn 1 year ago
Interested in what you have to say so will continue to watch the vid in full. Shalom bro
livingtorah 1 year ago
@livingtorah I approved your video response. For the record I disagree with it. This is not a salvation issue it is a understanding one that I have been through many times with other. I hope we can still be friends and that we can midrash together even with these disagreements.
paulgem123 1 year ago
@paulgem123 Amein brother Messiah called us to be brothers and friends. I have no ill feelings towards you or anyone that agree with the Pualine letters.
livingtorah 1 year ago
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
Jer 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith YHWH, [then] the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
this is what happens if anything vanishes,fades or decays.
livingtorah 1 year ago
What happens is that we try to explain things away with words that are not in the TORAH when you say Paul quoted Jer 31:31-34 that's not intirely true because he quoted some of it then began to add his own understanding that stuff about the old vanishing and all of that is not said in the TORAH.Quote= to speak or write (a passage) from another usually with credit acknowledgment. paul did not speak or write what was said in Jermiah verbatim. He added to it.
livingtorah 1 year ago
@livingtorah Correct, and neither did all the mountains of rabbinic commentary. Did Rambam, Rashi and others speak verbatim???
paulgem123 1 year ago
@paulgem123 that is the problem with rabbinic and pastoral offices that messiah says not to seek after but that paul establishes. They begin to speak all these commentaries and create new ideas that become doctrine and gospel with no authority from messiah or the TORAH that is Messiah.commentaries are just that commentaries not TORAH.If paul was a commmentator then let him be that but his words are not gospel they are comments on the TORAH with no authority other then that that comes frm gamiel.
livingtorah 1 year ago
@livingtorah Back to Torah, Paul did not establish offices. That was done in Torah when YHWH told him that if he could not handle all the complaints of the people then appoint judges over the people. It is not only Torah, but logical according to our court systems of today. Let's get off the Paul thing and on with the purpose of this video.
paulgem123 1 year ago
@paulgem123 This is messiah reluctant to give anybody position and this is paul saying Messiah gave positions.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.
livingtorah 1 year ago
@livingtorah Even Y'shua did not speak verbatim at all times. These are teaching styles.
paulgem123 1 year ago
@livingtorah Keep in mind that Paul was not the issue in this video, I only pointed him out as the author. Most would disagree as I also pointed out.
paulgem123 1 year ago
@paulgem123 I believe Apollos was the author and that is why the letter is anonymous because the hebrew people would be reluctant to accept a letter expounding on torah from a person that carries the name of a pagan diety.But regardless of the authur all those men you listed as possible authors are of the same tree, Paul and so their characters and speach sound alike.
livingtorah 1 year ago
Yes , G-d has magnified the Torah ( Word ) as the Word became a flesh .
Thank you Paul :-))
26mel1 1 year ago
Never had a problem with Hebrews, in fact what you say about the new covenant, Jesus Christ, Yahshua said Himself about the old and the new wineskins.
Both wineskins are preserved but only one leads to salvation which is the new covenant, new wineskin.
infamos 1 year ago
@infamos So if what you said is true...Were Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses saved in the old wine skin? I think it is more accurate to address it as the Renewed Covenant as it is ANEW by Y'shua but still points back to the same set of standards which was broken then and now.
paulgem123 1 year ago
@paulgem123 yes Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Moses were saved, you can add David, Jeremiah, Elijah, prophets etc. The account of the prophets rising from the grave after Yahshua did is in the 'new testament', I believe the 24 elders of Revelation are representative symbolically of those who met salvation via the old covenant.
There was a way of salvation before the "renewed" covenant as you call it. Both were initiated and sanctified by the Father
infamos 1 year ago
@infamos What Messiah is atlking about there has nthing to do with new covenant or old covenant
livingtorah 1 year ago
Romans 16:21, Phillipians 1:1, 1 Thess 3:2, 1 Tim 1:18, 2 tim 1:2, Philemon 1:10. The Marganitha, an ancient Aramaic source, states that there are "fourteen epistles of the Great Apostle Paul..." which include Hebrews.
paulgem123 1 year ago
According to aent Rav Shaul wrote Hebrews, however the church founder Origen once expressed that " only God knows who wrote this", but in the Middle East their are no doubts. Clement, Eusebius and Jerome state that Hebrews was originally writen in Hebrew. All the earliest Aramaic end with "written from Italy ...sent by the hands of Timothy". Timothy was imprisoned along side of Paul and released beforehand to deliver Paul's letters.
paulgem123 1 year ago