Just caught your video. As a trainer of hunting dogs nobody has been able to show me how to "clicker train" a dog that is off-leash and 30-50 yards ahead of you. Field Trial runners can even get as far as a 1/2 mile ahead of you. Was once told that I need to carry something on me that the dog finds desirable over everything else. I guess that means I should carry live quail in my purse and pockets? They do poop a lot and I really don't think it's sanitary.
But I don't see why this is necessary... I mean, why invest in a remote collar when there are so many other, better methods? Training is supposed to be a positive experience for the dog and the owner. If you are unable to train a dog without the use of a shock collar and get these kinds of results, then can you really call yourself a dog trainer? Anybody could do that.
who says what method is better? That is determined by the dog and the skill of the trainer. Did you even watch the video? The training looked like a fun experience for the dogs to me. You know what's positive? Showing a dog exactly what you want in a clear cut way, where they can be the most successful. Maybe you aren't smart enough to understand it, but that's ok because what is MOST important is that the dogs understand it, which is shown in this video.
@shatteringglass I don't think that last bit was completely necessary. ;P
I was wrong to state that as a fact, when really the statement was entirely opinionated. Yes, I watched the video. ^^ He is free to use whatever training methods he wants, as long as he's using the shock collars responsibly. I personally just feel that there are more efficient ways to train.
Also, none of that was directed at Mike Loesche specifically. c: I meant "you" in a context where it could refer to anybody.
@depantzed...In my experience, when a remote collar is used properly it IS a positive experience for both the dog and the owner. There are a lot of methods that work, but this is a great training tool. I would love to see some videos of your training methods. Please post some for me to watch!
@JacobsCrackers144 Pain? That's old school training. It's 2011 not the 1950's or 60's were they did use pain. How can you even compare a dog to a child? Would you let your kid walk barefooted in the snow like like dogs do? Have you ever seen dogs play? They use their mouths and i guaranty you that they cause more discomfort when they play with eath other then a e-collar does
This is not treating a dog with any respect, if you were to take a dog off this collar it could show them to turn against you. In this video the Man qoutes '' all dogs on romote collars do they look unhappy?? well no because they fear the shock of the collar also you can have a happy dog and train and teach it tricks and to be how you want it without the abuse. This is bloody disgracefull. Do not buy These collars!
This is not treating a dog with any respect, if you were to take a dog off this collar it could show them to turn against you. In this video the Man qoutes '' all dogs on romote collars do they look unhappy?? well no because they fear the shock of the collar also you can have a happy dog and train and teach it tricks and to be how you want it without the abuse. This is bloody disgracefull. Do not buy These collars!
@joshio2000 Turn against you? It's not a shock it's a stim and no they don't fear a stim. Does a really light tap on the shoulder hurt? Because that's how the stim feels. You're not suppose to go high on the e-collar. A dog will actually stress more when just using quitting signals then when using a e-collar. E-collars and e-collar training have come a long way. back in the day they only used very high levels of stim to train dogs. now they have better technology were they're able to use ---->
Shock collars sound like a good idea but in the long run it will promote anxiety and uncontrollable fear in a dog with prolonged psychological damage. It's a great money maker for you but causes more problems for responsible owners than solutions.
@andysepul1 I do actually, my father in law uses it on his pit bull doberman mix. To this day that dog is still afraid of him and everything around her. Before the collar was in use the dog was a happy and energetic dog that loves to greet people in her own special way.
@SagaraSouske Just because someone has used a e-collar before doesn't mean they know how to use it the right way. Anyone can go out and buy a e-collar. The reason your father in laws dog developed problems was because he most likely used very high levels of stim. E-collar training has come a long way and low level stims are used now. I've put it on myself and the level were i barely feel it is 10 levels higher then what i use on my dog.---------------------------------------------------------->
@SagaraSouske Your only suppose to go up to were the dog barely feels it. I've tried it on my 10 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew. It didn't hurt them one bit because i only go up to were they just notice it and that's the way you find a dogs working level. Look up the video from Robin Macfarlene it's called "How to use a remote collar for fearful dogs: Marley's story " You will see that in this case it actually helps a dog with fear issues---------------------------------->
@SagaraSouske I think the e-collar is one of the best training tools out there if used the right way. back in the 50's and 60's they use to used it with very high levels of stim but e-collars and e-collar training has come a long way. Didn't mean to sound like a jerk on my first post. Sorry
i am disgusted by shock collars. it is totally inhumane and wrong. the only reason these dogs are being obedient is because they are terrified that if it does something wrong then it will be hurt. That guy is a total dooshbag!!!!!!!!!11111
@MightyMonty99 You shouldn't talk about something you know nothing about.
the way he is useing the e-collar is not causing the dogs any pain. I've put it on myself and on my little niece. It's just a little tap to get the dogs attention. The level were i feel it is 10 levels higher then the level i use on my dog.
And shouldn't this video title be 'Electrocuting dogs is better than Victoria Stillwell's methods' as I think it would be a much more accurate description of what you're trying to get across, regardless of my own personal views. No point dressing things up with a generic title, if electrocution is your method say it in the title please.
Pain shouldn't be used on an innocent animal just to make it forcibly 'behave' for humans. If a person can't train a dog without using pain they shouldn't have a dog, end of story. Imagine if we electrocuted our children when they couldn't speak up and tell us how much pain they were in? I doubt it would be advertised and defended on YouTube, rather in a court of law.
@protheory This method is not causing the dog's any pain and it's not electrocuting the dog. Have you ever felt a TENS unit? people use those to relieve pain not cause pain. That's what a e-collar feels like. If the e-collar is being used to cause pain it's being used the wrong way.
@andysepul1 The wrong way is surely using an electric shock to train dogs to make quick money as the author of this video advocates. I'm sure that people making money from shocking dogs would insist it causes no pain but this isn't because of any humane reasoning it seems. In this case the collar is used to make quick money by a dog trainer, hardly a good or moral reason to promote its use. I could smack people I don't like round the head (for free) but what do you think would happen...
@protheory What would you say if i told you that using quitting signals as a correction causes stress in a dog?
I guess you would have to feel yfor yourself what a stim from a e-collar feels like to understand what im talking about. I've put the e-collar on myself and on my niece. The way you find the working level for a dog is to only turn it up to were the dog barely feels it. the level i found for myself is 10 levels higher then my dogs. My nieces level was 7 higher then my dog.
@andysepul1 I'd say I'm surprised about quitting signals being stressful but also to be fair I haven't experienced these collars myself and I guess I just assumed it was all bad. I'm still assuming now, only I've changed my view slightly as I've not felt it myself. You genuinely sound like you care about dogs, the only thing worrying me now is people who aren't as perceptive or patient as you seem to be using collars for the wrong reasons.
@protheory I had this foster that had a lot of drive. I trained him by using nothing but marker training. At first i didn't use any physical correction. I would give him a command and if he didn't do it i would say "NO" and i would withhold the reward. He would get very stressed and you could really tell with him. It looked like he would get so flustered.
@protheory Every person that i have ever shown how to find a dogs working level was very surprised at how painless the stim feels. After they felt the stim they really had no argument.
The majority of my training is motivational but i do believe that corrections are needed. Most of the correction I use are just quitting signals and withholding the reward. Although i do believe not all dogs are the same and some do need physical corrections. physical corrections don't have to be painfull
@andysepul1 What I meant there is it worries me that this method is available at all as obviously some people will/would use it for the wrong reasons, I'm referring to non-professional trainers and other folks here. An adjustable level seems like a recipe for disaster in the hands of unscrupulous people, again not necessarily in your hands. Thanks for clarifying here, I'll have to but a collar to try it (on myself not my dog lol).
@protheory there was a study done on the stress and learning effects of three different training methods in dogs. They used e-collars, prong collars and quitting signals. The e-collar trained the dog faster and the dogs cortisol levels were lower then when it was being trained with just quitting signals. Quitting signals were more stressfull then a e-collar and prong collar.
@protheory I agree, it also worries me that any idiot can just go out and buy this tool. I've even seen people that call themselves professional trainers abuse this tool. I also don't see the need for so many levels in the e-collar. I've heard of some people having to use up to level 54 on a dogtra collar and the dogtra usually goes up to 127 levels. I don't think all the other levels are needed.
Remote collars are not abusive its like a kid getting a spankin is that child abuse? no its not so to all u people out there trashin remote collars and spankin ur kids your all hypocrites and if u dont have punishment for something if it does bad it will do it again such as a dog peeing on the carpet oh look it just ruined my carpet oh well its okay doggy. it will just do it again
There are other ways to correct a dog or animal without using pain or intimidation. For most dogs, a simple "no" or touch gets their attention fine enough. I must admit I feel overwhelmed by all the different methods out there, but my goal is to get dogs to do as I like without force, to get them to obey because they trust and respect me. I want them to listen out of free will; a dog is supposed to be "mans' best friend, " not his servant!
lmao saying these collars are good to use fook let me put one round your neck and zapp ya while i walked around a room fook your treating them like its a circus why the fook would i want to train my dog to do that shit as long as my dog learns to come when i say or sit when i say to sit why on earth would i want to zapp him. loads of top trainers easily train dogs without these collars. you obviously need to shock them to do what alot better trainer's can do without using them.
@promarc01 I am sorry, but I could hardly read your comment. You seem to know nothing about spelling and grammar. Also; what about the dogs who don't respond to your R+ training? Going to put them down like Victoria Stilwell and other 'reputable' positive reinforcement trainers do? What about off-leash training? Your dog gets too close to a snake or some other deadly creature and you can't get to him in time. Do you toss him some food or give him an instant correction?
@NattieChristopher i was to pissed to properly grammar my post. or should i of put it in a better way simply fook off. it's a known fact they do harm etc etc etc. yes my dog responds perfectly to voice command's everytime, we dont have snake's or any deadly thing in the uk. as for any other animal, my dog will happily walk past sheep or deer without giving chase. so if i can do it as a first time dog keeper, im prity sure the lazy cruel fooks who have to use these collars can.
Are you serious? Please show me 1 video I have that supports your claim of "abuse". I'm not asking you to mix business with pleasure. I'm asking you to put up a video of a dog that you have trained.
@MIKELOESCHE Is that what you are asking everyone? I have many, many videos of dogs being trained without ever having been shocked or corrected at any time. I can stop my german shepherd or boston terrier on a dime with a quiet shhhhhh cue. Taught with food, performed with none in sight. performed on television, radio, in crowds as a demo trick dog team and after training thousands of dogs on my TV show and training school, I have never even thought about using one. I dont need to.
Where is the training, in the push of a button. What if a nove got hold of one of these with no idea how or when to use it resulting in shocks at the wrong time inducing fear and resentment towards the user. AGRESSION IS MOTIVATED BY FEAR. collars can suppress warning signs of when a dog is going to flip out completely. It also suppressess the behaviour it doesnt completely get rid of it, Just suressing the behaviour can trigger other behaviour problems
You should learn to be a TRAINER........you are not training you are managing ......its cruel....how come you don't show us what happens when you shock the dog.....
You should learn to be a TRAINER........you are not training you are managing ......its cruel....how come you don't show us what happens when you shock the dog.....
Victoria trains dogs without shock collars and those dogs look happy too when she is done. Ceaser trains dogs without shock collars also. I guess it takes a better trainer to train a dog without pain! Shame on you!
@tmurrah If they "look happy too" whats the difference? Their happy when she trains them, their happy when I do. This video is not to bash Victoria, but to defend Remote Collars. PLEASE any of you trashing Remote Collars put up some videos so I can see what your doing.
@tmurrah Actually, Caesar does you "stim" collars. He also uses aversion/positive punishment. That is the term used typically when discussing prongs or slips. Having used most techniques at this point on both sides of the spectrum, i would be much more prone to use e-stim on a fearful dog than a slip or prong. The "shock" s the same technology used in TENS units for physical therapy....research
@tmurrah Do your research!! E-collars do NOT cause pain!! I saw one being demonstrated at a pet store and tried it on my skin. They do NOT hurt!! Have you ever tried one?
Im a trainer myself. Put it this way, domestic dogs in most house holds are treated like members of the family. You would not electricute your child therefore should not do it with a dog.
@emmarocks I market my business to "pet owners" not working dogs. All of my clients love the method and find it very non-confrontational. I checked out your channel and couldnt find any training videos. Please put some up so I can see what you do.
@MIKELOESCHE thats because my channel is a personal channel to stay in touch with friends and I dont mix business with pleasure. What kind of message are you sending out to a young kid who wants to train their pet, are you telling them they should do it with this form of abuse.
@emmarocks As for treating dogs like members of the family...I wouldnt be in business if people didn't do that. However, dogs are different from us. Example, I don't make my kids eat out of a bowl on the floor or make them go potty in the front yard. I wouldn't be okay if my kids humped the neighbors, yelled (barked) at people walking down the street, or sitting around licking themselves.
@MIKELOESCHE would you let your kid crap all over your carpet, no, but do you put a colar on them. People pay good money for a dog they shouldnt have to shock or hurt it.
@MIKELOESCHE Precisely! Dogs are NOT humans. It's about time most dog owners realised that. It is because of that way of thinking, that dogs get completely screwed-up. Then it takes someone like you clean up the mess.
@angelslouie 1. Fur baby? Dogs are NOT children. They are a completely different species than ours. That Victoria knows NOTHING about psychology. She has had at least one dog put down when her methods failed. Know how she attempts to get people to get a dog that has run off to come back to them? Makes them lie down and play dead in the hopes the dogs will come back to investigate!
@angelslouie 2. E-collars SAVE lives!! The e-collar (when used properly) makes it possible to deliver an instant correction to an off-leash dog. What would you much rather happen? A dog trained without a collar, running off and being killed by a car. Or a dog who knows boundaries and limitations thanks to an e-collar?
@NattieChristopher Are you sure you mean an "E-collar?" E-collars are those cones placed around dogs' heads after they had surgery or are given IVs. (sorry if this makes you angry)
@MsZoraZ I definitely mean e-collar. As in the 'e' standing for electronic. You are right about those neck cones also being called e-collars. They are known as Elizabethan collars too.
I'm also pretty sure that most criticizing this method have not spent time educating themselves on the method or details in the training. Yes, anyone can teach a fairly reliable recall. But most trainer's would agree, that even sometimes the most reliable trained recall still fails, and with that failure, doors of great risk open. If the remote collar is like my emergency back up plan in that situation, i can greatly reduce the risk and danger for the dog.
@falcorish Quite the contrary, those using these methods must not have educated themselves both on how to properly train a dog, the many scientific studies that prove the terrible damage to a dogs psyche from being shocked electronically OR knew that the collar was ILLEGAL in many countries. We also have every right to stand up and comment when we see a video of an animal being ABUSED. And that is what is happening to every dog wearing a shock collar. With humane alternatives-there is no excuse
@InDogsWeTrust11 I guess this me leads me to the next question. How does one properly train a dog? Look, i'm quite familiar with marking, luring, compulsion drive. I am familiar with Pryor, Dunbar, Wilkes, Skinner, Pavlov and more. I have also seen the studies. Most tests if you actually read how they were performed, were set up to show bias subjectivity. Now I would agree that anyone can train a dog without any device, treat, etc. The question comes to reliability, and the balance of the evils.
@falcorish Shock collar trainers always talk about 'what if your dog gets loose, this could save its life" Here is a Q. What if your dog isnt wearing the collar when it gets loose? Nothing in life is 100%. With my dog and training clients, we are hired to do trick shows off leash inside malls, parks or dog/horse festival in front of thousands of people. None of us have ever corrected our dog.
@InDogsWeTrust11 What does teaching tricks have to do with real life? Everything. We learn how to teach behaviour instead of suppress it with punishment. I can teach my dog to be calm in public, instead of correct him for showing excitement and breaking his spirit. Bottom line: If you cant train a dog without punishment after you have educated yourself-you are not doing it right.
Violence begins where knowledge ends-Abraham Lincoln
@InDogsWeTrust11 Look, I can understand where you're coming from. And in most cases I would agree that positive motivation techniques will produce better results. Unfortunately, I've seen the rejects of that training too.When we limit our resources to help a dog, we limit what dogs we can help. Honestly we could argue this for ages. What I know, is the failures of every methodology on its own supposedly working for EVERY dog out there, whether it was trained at 10 weeks or 3 years.
@InDogsWeTrust11 I also know that if done properly, the dogs responds without the collar. Its about consistency, repetition, etc...like in all dog training. That's like saying to a luring trainer "what if you don't have the treat" Its an obsolete argument in any form of training. Honestly I believe you use all the resources weighing the balance. Every dog is different. Look, many do their all positive training, and later add a tool like this where the other failed. This is what I prefer.
@falcorish Using treats and using shock collars in training are completely different environmental cues to your dog, the collar missing from the dogs neck is blatantly obvious to your dog. the treat however is a small object that can be hidden in the pocket to leave your dog wondering, and since you are educated-you know that the dopamine levels double when the animal wonders if there is a reward vs knows for sure. Irregardless.. I would never, ever electronically shock my dog.
@InDogsWeTrust11 the cue is conditioned. for example if we condition the dog to associate the collar. it is definitely a careful process.at the same point, having a lot of scent work, dogs with good noses know the presence of treats. it is interesting that you mentioned dopamine and not cortisol. the lack of (expected) reward produces a higher cortisol level in the majority of dogs than a shock or prong collar. Either way, thanks for reasonably debating with me. Not everyone is so civil.
@falcorish Cues are completely conditioned, therefore, my dog loves to recall to me. My german shepherd cries out in excitement, turns on the spot and runs as fast as possible. I use envrironmental rewards, (releasing him to resume whatever is exciting, chasing me when he gets to me, and conditioning to teach him that coming to me is incredibly fun. At whatever distance he may be, its hard to say whether or not they could tell if there was a treat. I often train with nothing in my hand and...
@InDogsWeTrust11 ...run back to the reward that is planted elsewhere. If there is a study that refers to cortisol levels being higher in dogs that aren't receiving treats than in dogs who are receiving shocks I would definitely want to see it. I find that pretty hard to believe and I will definitely need to read that study. I have never seen any stress in treat trained dogs, unless they are confused and again-that leads back to poor training. our debate is prettymuch done here..
@InDogsWeTrust11 once again, assuming the parties in this conversation are educated, yes, it is understood that a treat may not be present at the time of the marked behavior, and that reward types vary to every situation. I will try to find that study for you, but it will take me a little time. Stress is present in all learning. Negative reinforcement is using stress and frustration, to allow the dog to attempt other behaviors to find reward. No form of learning exists without stress. its fact.
@falcorish absolute fact that there is stress in learning for every individual, including the humans coming into class for the first time. But shortly after, once the dog 'learns to learn' the dog enjoys the process. Thats why it is completely inhumane to use correction during the learning phase-which i know many correction trainers dont. THe companies who teach using correction initially are just sadistic. Looking forward to the study. I give up, we could go one forever..hahahha
@InDogsWeTrust11 I also am aware of the collars being made illegal in several countries. Is it because the device, or the misuse of the device? Secondly, even the best trainers out there will admit, if honest, there is no 100 percent in dog training. When weighing the balance of certain dangers in off-leash scenarios vs a light stimulation on a collar, I think it is an easy choice. Dead dog or shocked dog? When you examine the studies on electronic stimulation, consider the timing of the stim...
@InDogsWeTrust11 If you look at how the study timed the stim, it was always at the moment of increased frustration, stress, aggression. The cross association was bound to have an effect. First, no foundation was set for the dog to understand the stimulus. Secondly, it was associated with frustration build up, and the other dog. When looked at in detail at the way these studies are conducted, one might find there is more to education than believing the conclusion...look at how it was conducted..
@InDogsWeTrust11 And once again, if you've read previous post of mine, you would notice that I do employ what use to be ALL POSITIVE trainers. They continue to primarily work using positive and negative reinforcement. But the reality is that most once educated on the way this method works, realize that they didn't fully understand how it worked, and that it helped them greatly where the other method wasn't producing in certain issues
use may not understand that they can be used more than just suppressing the real problem. Unfortunately all tools are misused by many. E-collars, clickers, slip chains, prongs, treats, etc. The application of a treat or correction incorrectly can and will likely lead to more problems, or masking of a problem. The arguments on either side being effective come from a lack of understanding their proper use, and when to use them. Timing is of the utmost importance
...with her dogs. I have a hard time believing that aversive communication have been proven ineffective. I understand someone sitting writing theory on behavior might say so, but seeing so many dogs effectively trained using a balance in training (including negative stimulation) i am curious how with so many case studies ending successfully how this can be so. Saying aversive training only suppresses is like saying treats only bribe. For someone who is not educated or experienced in their....
Its amazing that every time i come to this video how much trainer bashing continues. I thought it was interesting that i was reading about a trainer that does marker training and is very successful in training dog actors for shows, commercials, etc. Prior to actually learning this method she would have criticized it to no end. Now she praises it. It was also interesting that even an exceptional trainer such as herself has achieved more reliable results, and not recognized any neg. effects....
this clip from it's me or the dog is not a fair comparison to what you are doing. she was so mad because the "trainers" had the collar on the highest levels possible. theres a way to train everything you've shown in this video without a remote collar. what you are doing is negative reinforcement and you are trying to compare it to positive reinforcement. you don't need any sort of special device to have a well trained dog.
It's been proven that shocking only suppresses the behaviors and doesn't actually correct them. It's a cruel thing to do to any dog, puppy or not. Update your knowledge on training dogs and get with the times dude. You are way off the mark. You want to have the dog obey because he's scared to death of you shocking him again.. yeah that's not what *I* would do or trainers who are current on today's methods of training. But I guess you have no problem being cruel to dogs.
@theglidergoddess: I am not using the collar for a correction. I am using it at super low levels in order to get the dogs to perform their obedience commands. I would love to see your methods and results. Please post some videos so I can watch. Check out my video "Why a Remote Collar" (posted above) for more insight into how I use the remote collar
I didn't care if the electric shock a dog receive is minimum, is still an electric shock. An electric collaro o remote collar is for lazy people who dont want to work with their dog. If you receive an electric shock no matter how strong it is you are not wanna receive it again and act "happy!.
and at no time did i claim all positive training doesn't work...i obviously hired one...but like all methods, they have their boundaries and limitations
and in fact i employ marker trainers, that do compete in dog sports nationally. they changed their mind too when they learned before they opened their mouth. but if that makes me an idiot because i researched before i started pointing fingers, fine. i wont stoop so low as to result to name calling, but that's because i have done my research. research in person before you judge it. but make sure your source is accurate and uses this specific method
i'm also very familiar with skinner, but there is lot more studies on behavior that need to be considered. stopping at skinner is like stopping with addition and subtraction. and i guess until you step off the ego, open your mind and actually investigate instead of bringing politics in, you will never know. i'm just so sick of people arguing before doing they're research on the method. obviously you haven't.
yeah they're similar, but schutzhund alone doesn't cut it for civil protection in the real world. I've read gail fisher, to karen pryor to ian dunbar, and use a variety of techniques that they employ. I respect them all very highly
Trust me i've strapped myself up and am very aware, and i gladly let someone communicate with me in the manner it is being used. its in how you use it. I am also very familiar with free style performance training. But real life, and performance training in set venue, arenas, or on stage are two different things. ITs like comparing schutzhund to civil protection, ...
You are an idiot. Electric shocks are non-confrontational and non-emotional? Let's strap you up with one and see how non-confrontational and non-emotional you feel. You may see "results" but what you don't see is the damage that they cause suppressing non-target behavior and removing protracted warning signals. Everything you show in your video Karen Pryor or Ian Dunbar could train with nothing more than kibble. Shock collars are classified as inhumane and illegal in 6 countries because of it.
@operaman83 - If what you're saying is true, then every human who has had physical therapy with a TENS unit would consider that type of treatment "confrontational" and/or "emotional," correct? You can use all the fancy terms you want but it's plain to see that you know very little to nothing about the method utilized in this video.
I'm sure Pryor or Dunbar could eventually train a dog to a similar level. My question is how long would it take? Open your mind instead of bashing others.
@operaman83 - and BTW, here's a quote from Dr. Randall Lockwood (Vice President for Research and Educational Outreach The Humane Society of the United States) “We recognize that older products were often unreliable and difficult to use humanely. But we feel that new technology employed by responsible manufacturers has led to products that can be and are being used safely and effectively to preserve the safety and well-being of many dogs and strengthen the bond with their human companions.”
ive seen happy and unhappy dogs trained under just about every method. all methods can produce dangerous results with a lack of understanding on properly applying the method. while i remain a big fan of clicker training for foundation work, the most aggressive dogs i've had to deal with have come from this methodology and were trained with it at an early age. i dont see why one needs treats either, or any other tool. perhaps it lies in the reliability that we choose such crutches to get there
I really don't understand why you need to use a shock collar to train a dog! I can see that the dogs all look very happy on the video, you must be a master at using it. How many people use it that are not so tuned in to it. Thus using it wrongly. I personaly would never ever let anyone use a shock collar on my dogs.
for anyone who thinks they "know it all", maybe they should step off their ego and check it out before they cry wolf. So far in all my life, i never have seen a method so efficient. And you know what, the customers learned to use it properly. great care was spent on understanding the dangers of using it incorrectly. Reinforcing with treats incorrectly can lead to as many behavioral problems as any other method. check it out before pointing fingers. and some of you call yourselves pros. wow
so far, ive never met even one all positive trainer that could produce results like these, being someone who attended a workshop for trainers using these methods. Having been a trainer using plenty of different balanced methods, i found that this one was unique in its lack of confrontation, while maintaining accountability.
@falcorish You haven't met any decent trainers then. Search "France Canine Freestyle". You think a 30s behavior chain is impressive? try a 5 minute behavior chain. Freestyle is all positive. Still gonna claim that positive training doesn't work? Read one book by Skinner, just one, then come back to this argument. Don't even look to a book, read some articles from Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists (the most respected animal behaviorists in the world). Just do a little research, please.
It amazes me how quick the dog training community criticizes with a lack of knowledge. being a trainer with experience in on leash and offleash obedience, scent detection, tracking, personal protection, handicapped assistance, and gun dogs, i just went through a workshop with a trainer using methods similar to this. At fist i was skeptical, but i quickly found i had a lot to learn on using the e-collar much like a marker system.....
@GoneWithTheWindx3-I do not use the collar when a dog does something "bad". They are stimulated when I give a command and the stimulation stops when they obey the command. The dog is being "shocked" every time I give a command....Yet THEY ARE STILL HAPPY AND NOT HARMED! The stim and the praise work together....Check out my other videos for step by step on how I use the collar in a postive way, NOT as a correction!
@MIKELOESCHE "Using the collar in a positive way" is an oxymoron. Even at low levels, this is a correction. You are using negative reinforcement: "Do what I tell you to and the correction stops". It has been scientifically proven time and again that positively reinforcing and conditioning behavior TEACHES a dog and produces lasting results, while using pain/dominance/fear gives quick results that do NOT last and can cause aggression.
You are not a trainer - you're a man with a shock collar.
@xocupcake1 negative reinforcement is removing the reward. positive punishment is correction. negative punishment is removing the punishment. what he is using is positive reinforcement (rewarding), with negative reinforcement (not rewarding), positive punishment (adding a stim) and negative punishment (removing stim for commiting to the behavior.) There are four quadrants of learning theory
Yea, but in this video none of the dogs did anything bad, so they didnt get shocked. why dont you show what happens when they do somthing wrong, and lets see how happy they look then! Really now, do you think a dog responds better to being shocked when they do somthing wrong or being praised when they do somthing good?
@lizjoe217 The dog is being stimulated with the remote collar EVERY time I give a command. Watch my video "Why a Remote Collar" for more details but it is done at low levels that humans usually can't even feel! You are watching the dog respond in this video....You don't see any negative reaction, do you?
I don't agree with him ,What should I do hmmmmmmm yeap I know I'm gonna use a shock collar and then kick his ass. Of course I can talk with this "man" but please I can use some force and violence. This guy is so pathetic.
and btw I'm a profesional dog trainer and owner of 5 Caucasian Shepherd Dogs. I also work for army and police.
Do you have any idea what so ever? Have you ever used or seen this done in person. PLEASE come check it out before you talk your BS. He not only uses collar if you are watching, its things plus collar, get with the program!
@CrueLoaf - "Can you train a dog without equipment?"
Does that mean no leashes, flat collars, toys, treats, clickers, etc? Why do people use "equipment" to do any job? Efficiency, of course. When a contractor uses a power saw in lieu of a manual saw does that make him any less skilled? Do you have a car? Why do you use it if you can walk to your destination?
@leonardletoto If you can't train heelwork with a flat collar or no collar at all, then you are a poor trainer. To use escape avoidance to train a basic function is like trying to shell peas with a sledgehammer.
Lets bring pain to our buddies or lets encourage to do something they want to do?!
@CrueLoaf - This is not escape avoidance training; you obviously have no clue as to the methodology employed here. Get educated first, then talk. Or better yet, put up a video that illustrates your exceptional skills instead of just bashing a technique you know nothing about.
Using an e-collar doesn't make a trainer sub-standard. Being CLOSE MINDED does!
While I'm not a big fan of Victoria, I agree with her in this situation. Sure, an e-collar can be a valid tool, but it should not be put in the hands of pet owners. Period. Use them for behavior modification. If you're a real dog trainer, you should know how to get a dog to sit, down, come, stay, heel, go out, leave it/take it/drop it WITHOUT use for an e-Collar. Just some food for thought for the new wave of button happy cell phone trainers coming into the field. Makes me laugh.
Yes, remote collars are great. But I hope people who first use them go through a good training program such as yours. That helps get the most positive results. We were fortunate to have "Sit Means Sit" teach us. Excellent teaching video and very entertaining.
What bullshit. I am a dog trainer for 30 years. Not 1 dog on that video received 1 correction on the entire video! Looks like positive reinforcement did the job, once again, & this idiot wants to credit the remote collar. Geez, he must think we are all idiots or we don't have eyes to see the treats! IF he is using treats AND the praise button ONLY (yes, the new collars are much better w/ a page & a praise button) he is CLICKER training & is too dumb or too stubborn to acknowledge it.
Sorry but your comment is ignorant. If you are using an eCollar, the average person should not be able to detect when the button is being pressed. Go view some of the videos where Mike has an audible indicator.
Balanced trainers use a combination of reward and corrections as Mike is doing. I hate all the people that claim they are scientific because they know words like Operant Conditioning. They just conveniently forget about the +P portion. I suppose your table has 2 legs instead of 4 also.
Mike, I am a remote collar trainer from Iowa ( a also went to TMD E-cademy). I've seen the episode of Victoria bashing the "shock collar" and it makes me so angry, so it's nice to see this video...made me lol! Nice work! I'm posting this vid to my FB page.
Nahkapaska Would you use electric shock to make kids well behaved? Why not, if it's so painless and has good results? Many kids who have violent parents behave well.
I don't use beating or kicking to train somebody, no matter what race it is.
A long time ago, horses were also trained like this, beating so hard they would become obedient. If these methods were used nowdays, horsetrainers would be prosecuted from torturing animals.
First, I think that you need to be educated in the difference between "race" and "species". Dogs are not a race, they fall under the animal species. Second, You couldn't have possibly have watched the same video as everyone else....show me where the beating and the violence you reference is???? This training is anything but violent or confrontational!
Third, any professional dog trainer will tell you that humanizing a dog is not the way to get positive results. Yes, my kids are well behaved and they love and respect me, but I have not accomplished this through violence.
No...I don't put a remote collar on my kids, but I don't make them eat out of a bowl on the floor or pee in the yard either. Finally, the I have always said that the reason that I don't train horses is that they don't make a pinch collar big enough.
Where did you see violence in the video? I'm really confused, you must be watching a different video than I am. ;) Because all I see are dogs working with wagging tails in this one....
Would you use electric shock to make your kids well behaved? Why not, if it's so painless and has good results? Many kids who have violent parents behave well.
I don't use beating or kicking to train somebody, no matter what race it is.
A long time ago, horses were also trained like this, beating so hard they would become obedient. If these methods were used nowdays, horsetrainers would be prosecuted from torturing animals. What amount violence is good for everybody and what amount is not?
If one is truly a student of K9 behavior than I challenge them to truthfully watch the dogs in this video and answer this question: are these dogs really being coerced? The truth is they are quite comfortable and happy. E-collar nay sayers have no real concept of the training method and tout it as evil while having no experience. Secondly, I would love to see them work with several of our high drive K9's that have no interest in tricks or treats. Something tells me that will never make the show
I don't care about being the "top" in agility or anything dog related. I want to have FUN with my dog. And I want my dog to also have fun. Oh and I happen to know some of the world team members and akc and usaa national winners who HATE the use of shock collars.
@AgilityLover94 Wow... 4 comments on something you know nothing about? Watch the video closely, does any dog look like it's in pain? They all look happy and tails waggin', yet EVERY dog in EVERY clip you see is getting "touched" by the ecollar. Maybe, just maybe, there's is something going on that You don't know.
@gettingfatsucks I do know about shock collars. I work with a trainer and we have seen many dogs that have had "training" with shock collars, chock chain, ect..Ive seen shock collars leave scars on dogs necks! Its so sad. I know all about shock collars. Ive read books, stuff online, and ive been to seminars about them. Believe me, i know.
@gettingfatsucks But like Victoria says' "The people who say, 'We're dog trainers, and the way we're going to train your dog, your puppy, is to put a shock collar on it." Im not calling myself a "pro" dog trainer, but i can train my dogs and other peoples dogs just fine w/o any use of negitive reinforcement.
I don't care about being the "top" in agility or anything dog related. I want to have FUN with my dog. And I want my dog to also have fun. Oh and I happen to know some of the world team members and akc and usaa national winners who HATE the use of shock collars.
i say great video. we have our first negative response and yes this is a free country. however, i would like to see the training toolbox of some of the TOP agility trainers, TOP akc obedience, TOP schutzhund, TOP french ring. i would venture to say the majority have them and use them. LOVE the vid.
I have my dogs think being with and coming to me is the best thing on earth. Not by making them think Oh god, if i dont stay right next to you or come the very sec. you call me im going to get hurt! Of couse dogs are going to obey you!! If your a "trainer" why do you need a shock collar to help you?? Why dont you yourself train the dog? NEVER will i EVER put a shock collar on any dog i own or work with.
Very sad..Its almost painful to watch this. Why do you feel the need to shock a dog to get it to obey?? Its not right. This video proves NOTHING. Thoese dogs are glued to your side because they know if they move they are going to get a shock! These dogs are doing their best to avoid pain. Both of my dogs were able to have a nice heel and be off leash in only 2-3 days of working w/ them and using POSITIVE training.
I can speak from personal experience that Mike (and other responsible trainers using remote collars forr that matter) cares very much about the proper and humane treatment of dogs. Victoria has incorrectly lumped all trainers into the misuse category. The collar I use (purchased from Mike) gives my dog a vibrating message that I am giving him a command. Victoria must also feel that guiding my dog with my hand or foot is akin to punching or slapping them!
Just caught your video. As a trainer of hunting dogs nobody has been able to show me how to "clicker train" a dog that is off-leash and 30-50 yards ahead of you. Field Trial runners can even get as far as a 1/2 mile ahead of you. Was once told that I need to carry something on me that the dog finds desirable over everything else. I guess that means I should carry live quail in my purse and pockets? They do poop a lot and I really don't think it's sanitary.
Oh well, have fun with your training!
madtabby66 1 week ago
Great video!!!
shatteringglass 2 months ago
But I don't see why this is necessary... I mean, why invest in a remote collar when there are so many other, better methods? Training is supposed to be a positive experience for the dog and the owner. If you are unable to train a dog without the use of a shock collar and get these kinds of results, then can you really call yourself a dog trainer? Anybody could do that.
depantzed 2 months ago
@depantzed
who says what method is better? That is determined by the dog and the skill of the trainer. Did you even watch the video? The training looked like a fun experience for the dogs to me. You know what's positive? Showing a dog exactly what you want in a clear cut way, where they can be the most successful. Maybe you aren't smart enough to understand it, but that's ok because what is MOST important is that the dogs understand it, which is shown in this video.
shatteringglass 2 months ago
@shatteringglass I don't think that last bit was completely necessary. ;P
I was wrong to state that as a fact, when really the statement was entirely opinionated. Yes, I watched the video. ^^ He is free to use whatever training methods he wants, as long as he's using the shock collars responsibly. I personally just feel that there are more efficient ways to train.
Also, none of that was directed at Mike Loesche specifically. c: I meant "you" in a context where it could refer to anybody.
depantzed 2 months ago
@depantzed...In my experience, when a remote collar is used properly it IS a positive experience for both the dog and the owner. There are a lot of methods that work, but this is a great training tool. I would love to see some videos of your training methods. Please post some for me to watch!
MIKELOESCHE 2 months ago
@MIKELOESCHE When I do, I'll message you. :3 As long as the dogs are okay with it, then great. c: This is really just my personal preference.
ysabeau2 2 months ago
@JacobsCrackers144 Pain? That's old school training. It's 2011 not the 1950's or 60's were they did use pain. How can you even compare a dog to a child? Would you let your kid walk barefooted in the snow like like dogs do? Have you ever seen dogs play? They use their mouths and i guaranty you that they cause more discomfort when they play with eath other then a e-collar does
andysepul1 6 months ago
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This is not treating a dog with any respect, if you were to take a dog off this collar it could show them to turn against you. In this video the Man qoutes '' all dogs on romote collars do they look unhappy?? well no because they fear the shock of the collar also you can have a happy dog and train and teach it tricks and to be how you want it without the abuse. This is bloody disgracefull. Do not buy These collars!
joshio2000 6 months ago
This is not treating a dog with any respect, if you were to take a dog off this collar it could show them to turn against you. In this video the Man qoutes '' all dogs on romote collars do they look unhappy?? well no because they fear the shock of the collar also you can have a happy dog and train and teach it tricks and to be how you want it without the abuse. This is bloody disgracefull. Do not buy These collars!
joshio2000 6 months ago
@joshio2000 Turn against you? It's not a shock it's a stim and no they don't fear a stim. Does a really light tap on the shoulder hurt? Because that's how the stim feels. You're not suppose to go high on the e-collar. A dog will actually stress more when just using quitting signals then when using a e-collar. E-collars and e-collar training have come a long way. back in the day they only used very high levels of stim to train dogs. now they have better technology were they're able to use ---->
andysepul1 6 months ago
@joshio2000 low levels of stim. You would be surprised how light it feels if the working level is correct.
andysepul1 6 months ago
Shock collars sound like a good idea but in the long run it will promote anxiety and uncontrollable fear in a dog with prolonged psychological damage. It's a great money maker for you but causes more problems for responsible owners than solutions.
SagaraSouske 7 months ago
@SagaraSouske You know nothing about the e-collar
andysepul1 7 months ago
@andysepul1 I do actually, my father in law uses it on his pit bull doberman mix. To this day that dog is still afraid of him and everything around her. Before the collar was in use the dog was a happy and energetic dog that loves to greet people in her own special way.
SagaraSouske 7 months ago
@SagaraSouske Just because someone has used a e-collar before doesn't mean they know how to use it the right way. Anyone can go out and buy a e-collar. The reason your father in laws dog developed problems was because he most likely used very high levels of stim. E-collar training has come a long way and low level stims are used now. I've put it on myself and the level were i barely feel it is 10 levels higher then what i use on my dog.---------------------------------------------------------->
andysepul1 7 months ago
@SagaraSouske Your only suppose to go up to were the dog barely feels it. I've tried it on my 10 year old niece and my 5 year old nephew. It didn't hurt them one bit because i only go up to were they just notice it and that's the way you find a dogs working level. Look up the video from Robin Macfarlene it's called "How to use a remote collar for fearful dogs: Marley's story " You will see that in this case it actually helps a dog with fear issues---------------------------------->
andysepul1 7 months ago
@SagaraSouske I think the e-collar is one of the best training tools out there if used the right way. back in the 50's and 60's they use to used it with very high levels of stim but e-collars and e-collar training has come a long way. Didn't mean to sound like a jerk on my first post. Sorry
andysepul1 7 months ago
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not necesary at all
nicotesta91 7 months ago
Shame on you! Why a shock collar? How would you feel if you had a shock collar on you and someone pushed the button!? I AM PISSED OFF!!!
JesusLovesUuuu 7 months ago
i am disgusted by shock collars. it is totally inhumane and wrong. the only reason these dogs are being obedient is because they are terrified that if it does something wrong then it will be hurt. That guy is a total dooshbag!!!!!!!!!11111
MightyMonty99 7 months ago
@MightyMonty99 You shouldn't talk about something you know nothing about.
the way he is useing the e-collar is not causing the dogs any pain. I've put it on myself and on my little niece. It's just a little tap to get the dogs attention. The level were i feel it is 10 levels higher then the level i use on my dog.
andysepul1 7 months ago
And shouldn't this video title be 'Electrocuting dogs is better than Victoria Stillwell's methods' as I think it would be a much more accurate description of what you're trying to get across, regardless of my own personal views. No point dressing things up with a generic title, if electrocution is your method say it in the title please.
protheory 7 months ago
Pain shouldn't be used on an innocent animal just to make it forcibly 'behave' for humans. If a person can't train a dog without using pain they shouldn't have a dog, end of story. Imagine if we electrocuted our children when they couldn't speak up and tell us how much pain they were in? I doubt it would be advertised and defended on YouTube, rather in a court of law.
protheory 7 months ago
@protheory This method is not causing the dog's any pain and it's not electrocuting the dog. Have you ever felt a TENS unit? people use those to relieve pain not cause pain. That's what a e-collar feels like. If the e-collar is being used to cause pain it's being used the wrong way.
andysepul1 7 months ago
@andysepul1 The wrong way is surely using an electric shock to train dogs to make quick money as the author of this video advocates. I'm sure that people making money from shocking dogs would insist it causes no pain but this isn't because of any humane reasoning it seems. In this case the collar is used to make quick money by a dog trainer, hardly a good or moral reason to promote its use. I could smack people I don't like round the head (for free) but what do you think would happen...
protheory 7 months ago
@protheory What would you say if i told you that using quitting signals as a correction causes stress in a dog?
I guess you would have to feel yfor yourself what a stim from a e-collar feels like to understand what im talking about. I've put the e-collar on myself and on my niece. The way you find the working level for a dog is to only turn it up to were the dog barely feels it. the level i found for myself is 10 levels higher then my dogs. My nieces level was 7 higher then my dog.
andysepul1 7 months ago
@andysepul1 I'd say I'm surprised about quitting signals being stressful but also to be fair I haven't experienced these collars myself and I guess I just assumed it was all bad. I'm still assuming now, only I've changed my view slightly as I've not felt it myself. You genuinely sound like you care about dogs, the only thing worrying me now is people who aren't as perceptive or patient as you seem to be using collars for the wrong reasons.
protheory 7 months ago
@protheory I had this foster that had a lot of drive. I trained him by using nothing but marker training. At first i didn't use any physical correction. I would give him a command and if he didn't do it i would say "NO" and i would withhold the reward. He would get very stressed and you could really tell with him. It looked like he would get so flustered.
andysepul1 7 months ago
@protheory Every person that i have ever shown how to find a dogs working level was very surprised at how painless the stim feels. After they felt the stim they really had no argument.
The majority of my training is motivational but i do believe that corrections are needed. Most of the correction I use are just quitting signals and withholding the reward. Although i do believe not all dogs are the same and some do need physical corrections. physical corrections don't have to be painfull
andysepul1 7 months ago
@andysepul1 What I meant there is it worries me that this method is available at all as obviously some people will/would use it for the wrong reasons, I'm referring to non-professional trainers and other folks here. An adjustable level seems like a recipe for disaster in the hands of unscrupulous people, again not necessarily in your hands. Thanks for clarifying here, I'll have to but a collar to try it (on myself not my dog lol).
protheory 7 months ago
@protheory *buy* even
protheory 7 months ago
@protheory there was a study done on the stress and learning effects of three different training methods in dogs. They used e-collars, prong collars and quitting signals. The e-collar trained the dog faster and the dogs cortisol levels were lower then when it was being trained with just quitting signals. Quitting signals were more stressfull then a e-collar and prong collar.
andysepul1 7 months ago
@protheory I agree, it also worries me that any idiot can just go out and buy this tool. I've even seen people that call themselves professional trainers abuse this tool. I also don't see the need for so many levels in the e-collar. I've heard of some people having to use up to level 54 on a dogtra collar and the dogtra usually goes up to 127 levels. I don't think all the other levels are needed.
andysepul1 7 months ago
great job Mike..!!
Victoria is cuckoo
IntoEwe 8 months ago
Remote collars are not abusive its like a kid getting a spankin is that child abuse? no its not so to all u people out there trashin remote collars and spankin ur kids your all hypocrites and if u dont have punishment for something if it does bad it will do it again such as a dog peeing on the carpet oh look it just ruined my carpet oh well its okay doggy. it will just do it again
PacoTaco129 9 months ago
There are other ways to correct a dog or animal without using pain or intimidation. For most dogs, a simple "no" or touch gets their attention fine enough. I must admit I feel overwhelmed by all the different methods out there, but my goal is to get dogs to do as I like without force, to get them to obey because they trust and respect me. I want them to listen out of free will; a dog is supposed to be "mans' best friend, " not his servant!
MsZoraZ 1 year ago
lmao saying these collars are good to use fook let me put one round your neck and zapp ya while i walked around a room fook your treating them like its a circus why the fook would i want to train my dog to do that shit as long as my dog learns to come when i say or sit when i say to sit why on earth would i want to zapp him. loads of top trainers easily train dogs without these collars. you obviously need to shock them to do what alot better trainer's can do without using them.
promarc01 1 year ago
@promarc01 I am sorry, but I could hardly read your comment. You seem to know nothing about spelling and grammar. Also; what about the dogs who don't respond to your R+ training? Going to put them down like Victoria Stilwell and other 'reputable' positive reinforcement trainers do? What about off-leash training? Your dog gets too close to a snake or some other deadly creature and you can't get to him in time. Do you toss him some food or give him an instant correction?
NattieChristopher 1 year ago
@NattieChristopher i was to pissed to properly grammar my post. or should i of put it in a better way simply fook off. it's a known fact they do harm etc etc etc. yes my dog responds perfectly to voice command's everytime, we dont have snake's or any deadly thing in the uk. as for any other animal, my dog will happily walk past sheep or deer without giving chase. so if i can do it as a first time dog keeper, im prity sure the lazy cruel fooks who have to use these collars can.
promarc01 1 year ago
Are you serious? Please show me 1 video I have that supports your claim of "abuse". I'm not asking you to mix business with pleasure. I'm asking you to put up a video of a dog that you have trained.
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
@MIKELOESCHE Is that what you are asking everyone? I have many, many videos of dogs being trained without ever having been shocked or corrected at any time. I can stop my german shepherd or boston terrier on a dime with a quiet shhhhhh cue. Taught with food, performed with none in sight. performed on television, radio, in crowds as a demo trick dog team and after training thousands of dogs on my TV show and training school, I have never even thought about using one. I dont need to.
InDogsWeTrust11 1 week ago
Where is the training, in the push of a button. What if a nove got hold of one of these with no idea how or when to use it resulting in shocks at the wrong time inducing fear and resentment towards the user. AGRESSION IS MOTIVATED BY FEAR. collars can suppress warning signs of when a dog is going to flip out completely. It also suppressess the behaviour it doesnt completely get rid of it, Just suressing the behaviour can trigger other behaviour problems
emmarocks 1 year ago
You should learn to be a TRAINER........you are not training you are managing ......its cruel....how come you don't show us what happens when you shock the dog.....
ccharc 1 year ago
@ccharc it is showing the dog getting shocked...research it, see it in person
falcorish 1 year ago
You should learn to be a TRAINER........you are not training you are managing ......its cruel....how come you don't show us what happens when you shock the dog.....
ccharc 1 year ago
Great work Mike & very educational vids, keep 'em coming..
einfo1 1 year ago
i can handle both. i think u r sick. poor babies have no chance w/u
angelslouie 1 year ago
Victoria trains dogs without shock collars and those dogs look happy too when she is done. Ceaser trains dogs without shock collars also. I guess it takes a better trainer to train a dog without pain! Shame on you!
tmurrah 1 year ago 2
@tmurrah If they "look happy too" whats the difference? Their happy when she trains them, their happy when I do. This video is not to bash Victoria, but to defend Remote Collars. PLEASE any of you trashing Remote Collars put up some videos so I can see what your doing.
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
@tmurrah How happy does this dog look after Victoria "trained" it? youtube.com/watch?v=TCBpNlhdxWw
tamiturner 1 year ago
@tmurrah Actually, Caesar does you "stim" collars. He also uses aversion/positive punishment. That is the term used typically when discussing prongs or slips. Having used most techniques at this point on both sides of the spectrum, i would be much more prone to use e-stim on a fearful dog than a slip or prong. The "shock" s the same technology used in TENS units for physical therapy....research
falcorish 1 year ago
@tmurrah actually in some of the newer episodes cesar uses e-collars.
omg9918 1 year ago
@tmurrah Do your research!! E-collars do NOT cause pain!! I saw one being demonstrated at a pet store and tried it on my skin. They do NOT hurt!! Have you ever tried one?
NattieChristopher 1 year ago
Im a trainer myself. Put it this way, domestic dogs in most house holds are treated like members of the family. You would not electricute your child therefore should not do it with a dog.
emmarocks 1 year ago
@emmarocks I market my business to "pet owners" not working dogs. All of my clients love the method and find it very non-confrontational. I checked out your channel and couldnt find any training videos. Please put some up so I can see what you do.
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
@MIKELOESCHE thats because my channel is a personal channel to stay in touch with friends and I dont mix business with pleasure. What kind of message are you sending out to a young kid who wants to train their pet, are you telling them they should do it with this form of abuse.
emmarocks 1 year ago
@emmarocks As for treating dogs like members of the family...I wouldnt be in business if people didn't do that. However, dogs are different from us. Example, I don't make my kids eat out of a bowl on the floor or make them go potty in the front yard. I wouldn't be okay if my kids humped the neighbors, yelled (barked) at people walking down the street, or sitting around licking themselves.
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago 6
@MIKELOESCHE would you let your kid crap all over your carpet, no, but do you put a colar on them. People pay good money for a dog they shouldnt have to shock or hurt it.
emmarocks 1 year ago
@MIKELOESCHE Precisely! Dogs are NOT humans. It's about time most dog owners realised that. It is because of that way of thinking, that dogs get completely screwed-up. Then it takes someone like you clean up the mess.
NattieChristopher 1 year ago
@emmarocks
I ABSOLUTELY HATE WHAT U R DOING TO THESE POOR 'FUR BABIES'. I AM W/VICTORIA. -- WHY DON'T YOU WEAR ONE, -- I WILL NEVER DO THIS TO MY 'FUR BABIES'!!
angelslouie 1 year ago
@angelslouie I just checked out your channel. Why don't you stick with music and let us dog trainers intelligently discuss this. Thanks
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago 2
@angelslouie 1. Fur baby? Dogs are NOT children. They are a completely different species than ours. That Victoria knows NOTHING about psychology. She has had at least one dog put down when her methods failed. Know how she attempts to get people to get a dog that has run off to come back to them? Makes them lie down and play dead in the hopes the dogs will come back to investigate!
NattieChristopher 1 year ago
@angelslouie 2. E-collars SAVE lives!! The e-collar (when used properly) makes it possible to deliver an instant correction to an off-leash dog. What would you much rather happen? A dog trained without a collar, running off and being killed by a car. Or a dog who knows boundaries and limitations thanks to an e-collar?
NattieChristopher 1 year ago
@NattieChristopher Are you sure you mean an "E-collar?" E-collars are those cones placed around dogs' heads after they had surgery or are given IVs. (sorry if this makes you angry)
MsZoraZ 1 year ago
@MsZoraZ I definitely mean e-collar. As in the 'e' standing for electronic. You are right about those neck cones also being called e-collars. They are known as Elizabethan collars too.
NattieChristopher 1 year ago
@emmarocks I HATE THIS! ! -- I AM W/VICTORIA, -- THIS IS CRUEL.. WHY DON'T U WEAR ONE!!
angelslouie 1 year ago
I'm also pretty sure that most criticizing this method have not spent time educating themselves on the method or details in the training. Yes, anyone can teach a fairly reliable recall. But most trainer's would agree, that even sometimes the most reliable trained recall still fails, and with that failure, doors of great risk open. If the remote collar is like my emergency back up plan in that situation, i can greatly reduce the risk and danger for the dog.
falcorish 1 year ago
@falcorish Quite the contrary, those using these methods must not have educated themselves both on how to properly train a dog, the many scientific studies that prove the terrible damage to a dogs psyche from being shocked electronically OR knew that the collar was ILLEGAL in many countries. We also have every right to stand up and comment when we see a video of an animal being ABUSED. And that is what is happening to every dog wearing a shock collar. With humane alternatives-there is no excuse
InDogsWeTrust11 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 I guess this me leads me to the next question. How does one properly train a dog? Look, i'm quite familiar with marking, luring, compulsion drive. I am familiar with Pryor, Dunbar, Wilkes, Skinner, Pavlov and more. I have also seen the studies. Most tests if you actually read how they were performed, were set up to show bias subjectivity. Now I would agree that anyone can train a dog without any device, treat, etc. The question comes to reliability, and the balance of the evils.
falcorish 1 year ago
@falcorish Shock collar trainers always talk about 'what if your dog gets loose, this could save its life" Here is a Q. What if your dog isnt wearing the collar when it gets loose? Nothing in life is 100%. With my dog and training clients, we are hired to do trick shows off leash inside malls, parks or dog/horse festival in front of thousands of people. None of us have ever corrected our dog.
InDogsWeTrust11 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 What does teaching tricks have to do with real life? Everything. We learn how to teach behaviour instead of suppress it with punishment. I can teach my dog to be calm in public, instead of correct him for showing excitement and breaking his spirit. Bottom line: If you cant train a dog without punishment after you have educated yourself-you are not doing it right.
Violence begins where knowledge ends-Abraham Lincoln
(favourite quote amongst positive dog trainers)
InDogsWeTrust11 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 Look, I can understand where you're coming from. And in most cases I would agree that positive motivation techniques will produce better results. Unfortunately, I've seen the rejects of that training too.When we limit our resources to help a dog, we limit what dogs we can help. Honestly we could argue this for ages. What I know, is the failures of every methodology on its own supposedly working for EVERY dog out there, whether it was trained at 10 weeks or 3 years.
falcorish 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 I also know that if done properly, the dogs responds without the collar. Its about consistency, repetition, etc...like in all dog training. That's like saying to a luring trainer "what if you don't have the treat" Its an obsolete argument in any form of training. Honestly I believe you use all the resources weighing the balance. Every dog is different. Look, many do their all positive training, and later add a tool like this where the other failed. This is what I prefer.
falcorish 1 year ago
@falcorish Using treats and using shock collars in training are completely different environmental cues to your dog, the collar missing from the dogs neck is blatantly obvious to your dog. the treat however is a small object that can be hidden in the pocket to leave your dog wondering, and since you are educated-you know that the dopamine levels double when the animal wonders if there is a reward vs knows for sure. Irregardless.. I would never, ever electronically shock my dog.
InDogsWeTrust11 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 the cue is conditioned. for example if we condition the dog to associate the collar. it is definitely a careful process.at the same point, having a lot of scent work, dogs with good noses know the presence of treats. it is interesting that you mentioned dopamine and not cortisol. the lack of (expected) reward produces a higher cortisol level in the majority of dogs than a shock or prong collar. Either way, thanks for reasonably debating with me. Not everyone is so civil.
falcorish 1 year ago
@falcorish Cues are completely conditioned, therefore, my dog loves to recall to me. My german shepherd cries out in excitement, turns on the spot and runs as fast as possible. I use envrironmental rewards, (releasing him to resume whatever is exciting, chasing me when he gets to me, and conditioning to teach him that coming to me is incredibly fun. At whatever distance he may be, its hard to say whether or not they could tell if there was a treat. I often train with nothing in my hand and...
InDogsWeTrust11 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 ...run back to the reward that is planted elsewhere. If there is a study that refers to cortisol levels being higher in dogs that aren't receiving treats than in dogs who are receiving shocks I would definitely want to see it. I find that pretty hard to believe and I will definitely need to read that study. I have never seen any stress in treat trained dogs, unless they are confused and again-that leads back to poor training. our debate is prettymuch done here..
InDogsWeTrust11 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 once again, assuming the parties in this conversation are educated, yes, it is understood that a treat may not be present at the time of the marked behavior, and that reward types vary to every situation. I will try to find that study for you, but it will take me a little time. Stress is present in all learning. Negative reinforcement is using stress and frustration, to allow the dog to attempt other behaviors to find reward. No form of learning exists without stress. its fact.
falcorish 1 year ago
@falcorish absolute fact that there is stress in learning for every individual, including the humans coming into class for the first time. But shortly after, once the dog 'learns to learn' the dog enjoys the process. Thats why it is completely inhumane to use correction during the learning phase-which i know many correction trainers dont. THe companies who teach using correction initially are just sadistic. Looking forward to the study. I give up, we could go one forever..hahahha
InDogsWeTrust11 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 I also am aware of the collars being made illegal in several countries. Is it because the device, or the misuse of the device? Secondly, even the best trainers out there will admit, if honest, there is no 100 percent in dog training. When weighing the balance of certain dangers in off-leash scenarios vs a light stimulation on a collar, I think it is an easy choice. Dead dog or shocked dog? When you examine the studies on electronic stimulation, consider the timing of the stim...
falcorish 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 If you look at how the study timed the stim, it was always at the moment of increased frustration, stress, aggression. The cross association was bound to have an effect. First, no foundation was set for the dog to understand the stimulus. Secondly, it was associated with frustration build up, and the other dog. When looked at in detail at the way these studies are conducted, one might find there is more to education than believing the conclusion...look at how it was conducted..
falcorish 1 year ago
@InDogsWeTrust11 And once again, if you've read previous post of mine, you would notice that I do employ what use to be ALL POSITIVE trainers. They continue to primarily work using positive and negative reinforcement. But the reality is that most once educated on the way this method works, realize that they didn't fully understand how it worked, and that it helped them greatly where the other method wasn't producing in certain issues
falcorish 1 year ago
use may not understand that they can be used more than just suppressing the real problem. Unfortunately all tools are misused by many. E-collars, clickers, slip chains, prongs, treats, etc. The application of a treat or correction incorrectly can and will likely lead to more problems, or masking of a problem. The arguments on either side being effective come from a lack of understanding their proper use, and when to use them. Timing is of the utmost importance
falcorish 1 year ago
...with her dogs. I have a hard time believing that aversive communication have been proven ineffective. I understand someone sitting writing theory on behavior might say so, but seeing so many dogs effectively trained using a balance in training (including negative stimulation) i am curious how with so many case studies ending successfully how this can be so. Saying aversive training only suppresses is like saying treats only bribe. For someone who is not educated or experienced in their....
falcorish 1 year ago
Its amazing that every time i come to this video how much trainer bashing continues. I thought it was interesting that i was reading about a trainer that does marker training and is very successful in training dog actors for shows, commercials, etc. Prior to actually learning this method she would have criticized it to no end. Now she praises it. It was also interesting that even an exceptional trainer such as herself has achieved more reliable results, and not recognized any neg. effects....
falcorish 1 year ago
this clip from it's me or the dog is not a fair comparison to what you are doing. she was so mad because the "trainers" had the collar on the highest levels possible. theres a way to train everything you've shown in this video without a remote collar. what you are doing is negative reinforcement and you are trying to compare it to positive reinforcement. you don't need any sort of special device to have a well trained dog.
dontpugme 1 year ago
@dontpugme
What dog do you train...please put a video up!!!! I would love to compare your dog vs mine!!! Let's do it!
zlewis58 1 year ago
It's been proven that shocking only suppresses the behaviors and doesn't actually correct them. It's a cruel thing to do to any dog, puppy or not. Update your knowledge on training dogs and get with the times dude. You are way off the mark. You want to have the dog obey because he's scared to death of you shocking him again.. yeah that's not what *I* would do or trainers who are current on today's methods of training. But I guess you have no problem being cruel to dogs.
theglidergoddess 1 year ago 3
@theglidergoddess: I am not using the collar for a correction. I am using it at super low levels in order to get the dogs to perform their obedience commands. I would love to see your methods and results. Please post some videos so I can watch. Check out my video "Why a Remote Collar" (posted above) for more insight into how I use the remote collar
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
I didn't care if the electric shock a dog receive is minimum, is still an electric shock. An electric collaro o remote collar is for lazy people who dont want to work with their dog. If you receive an electric shock no matter how strong it is you are not wanna receive it again and act "happy!.
dakotamx 1 year ago 3
@dakotamx - In that case, you shouldn't use a leash, either. A leash would be for people too lazy to run after their dogs, right?
leonardletoto 1 year ago
and at no time did i claim all positive training doesn't work...i obviously hired one...but like all methods, they have their boundaries and limitations
falcorish 1 year ago
and in fact i employ marker trainers, that do compete in dog sports nationally. they changed their mind too when they learned before they opened their mouth. but if that makes me an idiot because i researched before i started pointing fingers, fine. i wont stoop so low as to result to name calling, but that's because i have done my research. research in person before you judge it. but make sure your source is accurate and uses this specific method
falcorish 1 year ago
i'm also very familiar with skinner, but there is lot more studies on behavior that need to be considered. stopping at skinner is like stopping with addition and subtraction. and i guess until you step off the ego, open your mind and actually investigate instead of bringing politics in, you will never know. i'm just so sick of people arguing before doing they're research on the method. obviously you haven't.
falcorish 1 year ago
yeah they're similar, but schutzhund alone doesn't cut it for civil protection in the real world. I've read gail fisher, to karen pryor to ian dunbar, and use a variety of techniques that they employ. I respect them all very highly
falcorish 1 year ago
Trust me i've strapped myself up and am very aware, and i gladly let someone communicate with me in the manner it is being used. its in how you use it. I am also very familiar with free style performance training. But real life, and performance training in set venue, arenas, or on stage are two different things. ITs like comparing schutzhund to civil protection, ...
falcorish 1 year ago
You are an idiot. Electric shocks are non-confrontational and non-emotional? Let's strap you up with one and see how non-confrontational and non-emotional you feel. You may see "results" but what you don't see is the damage that they cause suppressing non-target behavior and removing protracted warning signals. Everything you show in your video Karen Pryor or Ian Dunbar could train with nothing more than kibble. Shock collars are classified as inhumane and illegal in 6 countries because of it.
operaman83 1 year ago
@operaman83 - If what you're saying is true, then every human who has had physical therapy with a TENS unit would consider that type of treatment "confrontational" and/or "emotional," correct? You can use all the fancy terms you want but it's plain to see that you know very little to nothing about the method utilized in this video.
I'm sure Pryor or Dunbar could eventually train a dog to a similar level. My question is how long would it take? Open your mind instead of bashing others.
leonardletoto 1 year ago
@operaman83 - and BTW, here's a quote from Dr. Randall Lockwood (Vice President for Research and Educational Outreach The Humane Society of the United States) “We recognize that older products were often unreliable and difficult to use humanely. But we feel that new technology employed by responsible manufacturers has led to products that can be and are being used safely and effectively to preserve the safety and well-being of many dogs and strengthen the bond with their human companions.”
–
leonardletoto 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Victoria Stillwell thinks that dogs are slot machines of food.... I wanna see this woman with CUJO...... yeahhhhhhhhhhhh
uvutur 1 year ago
ive seen happy and unhappy dogs trained under just about every method. all methods can produce dangerous results with a lack of understanding on properly applying the method. while i remain a big fan of clicker training for foundation work, the most aggressive dogs i've had to deal with have come from this methodology and were trained with it at an early age. i dont see why one needs treats either, or any other tool. perhaps it lies in the reliability that we choose such crutches to get there
falcorish 1 year ago
I really don't understand why you need to use a shock collar to train a dog! I can see that the dogs all look very happy on the video, you must be a master at using it. How many people use it that are not so tuned in to it. Thus using it wrongly. I personaly would never ever let anyone use a shock collar on my dogs.
t6eatowel 1 year ago
for anyone who thinks they "know it all", maybe they should step off their ego and check it out before they cry wolf. So far in all my life, i never have seen a method so efficient. And you know what, the customers learned to use it properly. great care was spent on understanding the dangers of using it incorrectly. Reinforcing with treats incorrectly can lead to as many behavioral problems as any other method. check it out before pointing fingers. and some of you call yourselves pros. wow
falcorish 1 year ago
so far, ive never met even one all positive trainer that could produce results like these, being someone who attended a workshop for trainers using these methods. Having been a trainer using plenty of different balanced methods, i found that this one was unique in its lack of confrontation, while maintaining accountability.
falcorish 1 year ago
@falcorish You haven't met any decent trainers then. Search "France Canine Freestyle". You think a 30s behavior chain is impressive? try a 5 minute behavior chain. Freestyle is all positive. Still gonna claim that positive training doesn't work? Read one book by Skinner, just one, then come back to this argument. Don't even look to a book, read some articles from Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists (the most respected animal behaviorists in the world). Just do a little research, please.
operaman83 1 year ago
It amazes me how quick the dog training community criticizes with a lack of knowledge. being a trainer with experience in on leash and offleash obedience, scent detection, tracking, personal protection, handicapped assistance, and gun dogs, i just went through a workshop with a trainer using methods similar to this. At fist i was skeptical, but i quickly found i had a lot to learn on using the e-collar much like a marker system.....
falcorish 1 year ago
i don't believe in shock collars
battousaiblade 1 year ago
@GoneWithTheWindx3-I do not use the collar when a dog does something "bad". They are stimulated when I give a command and the stimulation stops when they obey the command. The dog is being "shocked" every time I give a command....Yet THEY ARE STILL HAPPY AND NOT HARMED! The stim and the praise work together....Check out my other videos for step by step on how I use the collar in a postive way, NOT as a correction!
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
@MIKELOESCHE "Using the collar in a positive way" is an oxymoron. Even at low levels, this is a correction. You are using negative reinforcement: "Do what I tell you to and the correction stops". It has been scientifically proven time and again that positively reinforcing and conditioning behavior TEACHES a dog and produces lasting results, while using pain/dominance/fear gives quick results that do NOT last and can cause aggression.
You are not a trainer - you're a man with a shock collar.
xocupcake1 1 year ago 2
@xocupcake1 negative reinforcement is removing the reward. positive punishment is correction. negative punishment is removing the punishment. what he is using is positive reinforcement (rewarding), with negative reinforcement (not rewarding), positive punishment (adding a stim) and negative punishment (removing stim for commiting to the behavior.) There are four quadrants of learning theory
falcorish 1 year ago
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falcorish 1 year ago
Yea, but in this video none of the dogs did anything bad, so they didnt get shocked. why dont you show what happens when they do somthing wrong, and lets see how happy they look then! Really now, do you think a dog responds better to being shocked when they do somthing wrong or being praised when they do somthing good?
GoneWithTheWindx3 1 year ago
Can you show what happens when you use the remote collar on the dogs. How do they respond? What kind of voltage is running through those things?
lizjoe217 1 year ago
@lizjoe217 The dog is being stimulated with the remote collar EVERY time I give a command. Watch my video "Why a Remote Collar" for more details but it is done at low levels that humans usually can't even feel! You are watching the dog respond in this video....You don't see any negative reaction, do you?
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
Aside from it shocking your poor dog, I just don't understand why its necessary, if you can get the same results from positive reinforcement.
cvalley2 1 year ago
I don't agree with him ,What should I do hmmmmmmm yeap I know I'm gonna use a shock collar and then kick his ass. Of course I can talk with this "man" but please I can use some force and violence. This guy is so pathetic.
and btw I'm a profesional dog trainer and owner of 5 Caucasian Shepherd Dogs. I also work for army and police.
Valtameri 1 year ago
@Valtameri
Do you have any idea what so ever? Have you ever used or seen this done in person. PLEASE come check it out before you talk your BS. He not only uses collar if you are watching, its things plus collar, get with the program!
zlewis58 1 year ago
Why you feel the need to boast about using electric equipment to train a dog is beyond me!
Sure they work but why do you have to use them. Can you train a dog without equipment.
As a last resort perhaps a shock collar can be used but for heelwork?!
CrueLoaf 1 year ago
@CrueLoaf - "Can you train a dog without equipment?"
Does that mean no leashes, flat collars, toys, treats, clickers, etc? Why do people use "equipment" to do any job? Efficiency, of course. When a contractor uses a power saw in lieu of a manual saw does that make him any less skilled? Do you have a car? Why do you use it if you can walk to your destination?
Get the point?
leonardletoto 1 year ago
@leonardletoto If you can't train heelwork with a flat collar or no collar at all, then you are a poor trainer. To use escape avoidance to train a basic function is like trying to shell peas with a sledgehammer.
Lets bring pain to our buddies or lets encourage to do something they want to do?!
CrueLoaf 1 year ago
@CrueLoaf - This is not escape avoidance training; you obviously have no clue as to the methodology employed here. Get educated first, then talk. Or better yet, put up a video that illustrates your exceptional skills instead of just bashing a technique you know nothing about.
Using an e-collar doesn't make a trainer sub-standard. Being CLOSE MINDED does!
leonardletoto 1 year ago
While I'm not a big fan of Victoria, I agree with her in this situation. Sure, an e-collar can be a valid tool, but it should not be put in the hands of pet owners. Period. Use them for behavior modification. If you're a real dog trainer, you should know how to get a dog to sit, down, come, stay, heel, go out, leave it/take it/drop it WITHOUT use for an e-Collar. Just some food for thought for the new wave of button happy cell phone trainers coming into the field. Makes me laugh.
talistur 1 year ago
Rock on Mike, Great Stuff!
SMSBrisbane 1 year ago
I simply love this!
10-0 for you here lol
patryric 1 year ago
Shock Collars! Shame on you, sir!
Gorilla196094 1 year ago
Yes, remote collars are great. But I hope people who first use them go through a good training program such as yours. That helps get the most positive results. We were fortunate to have "Sit Means Sit" teach us. Excellent teaching video and very entertaining.
doghaven1 1 year ago
What bullshit. I am a dog trainer for 30 years. Not 1 dog on that video received 1 correction on the entire video! Looks like positive reinforcement did the job, once again, & this idiot wants to credit the remote collar. Geez, he must think we are all idiots or we don't have eyes to see the treats! IF he is using treats AND the praise button ONLY (yes, the new collars are much better w/ a page & a praise button) he is CLICKER training & is too dumb or too stubborn to acknowledge it.
nanci00 1 year ago
Sorry but your comment is ignorant. If you are using an eCollar, the average person should not be able to detect when the button is being pressed. Go view some of the videos where Mike has an audible indicator.
Balanced trainers use a combination of reward and corrections as Mike is doing. I hate all the people that claim they are scientific because they know words like Operant Conditioning. They just conveniently forget about the +P portion. I suppose your table has 2 legs instead of 4 also.
daudet1 1 year ago
Rock on, dude! This video is awesome, and reminds that I need to get a video of my dog working with her collar on.
Stillwell is an idiot.
hilgy1188 1 year ago
Mike, I am a remote collar trainer from Iowa ( a also went to TMD E-cademy). I've seen the episode of Victoria bashing the "shock collar" and it makes me so angry, so it's nice to see this video...made me lol! Nice work! I'm posting this vid to my FB page.
Goetzy80 1 year ago 2
Nahkapaska Would you use electric shock to make kids well behaved? Why not, if it's so painless and has good results? Many kids who have violent parents behave well.
I don't use beating or kicking to train somebody, no matter what race it is.
A long time ago, horses were also trained like this, beating so hard they would become obedient. If these methods were used nowdays, horsetrainers would be prosecuted from torturing animals.
Nahkapaska 1 year ago
@Nahkapaska
First, I think that you need to be educated in the difference between "race" and "species". Dogs are not a race, they fall under the animal species. Second, You couldn't have possibly have watched the same video as everyone else....show me where the beating and the violence you reference is???? This training is anything but violent or confrontational!
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago 2
@Nahkapaska
Third, any professional dog trainer will tell you that humanizing a dog is not the way to get positive results. Yes, my kids are well behaved and they love and respect me, but I have not accomplished this through violence.
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
@Nahkapaska
No...I don't put a remote collar on my kids, but I don't make them eat out of a bowl on the floor or pee in the yard either. Finally, the I have always said that the reason that I don't train horses is that they don't make a pinch collar big enough.
MIKELOESCHE 1 year ago
@Nahkapaska
Where did you see violence in the video? I'm really confused, you must be watching a different video than I am. ;) Because all I see are dogs working with wagging tails in this one....
hilgy1188 1 year ago 2
Would you use electric shock to make your kids well behaved? Why not, if it's so painless and has good results? Many kids who have violent parents behave well.
I don't use beating or kicking to train somebody, no matter what race it is.
A long time ago, horses were also trained like this, beating so hard they would become obedient. If these methods were used nowdays, horsetrainers would be prosecuted from torturing animals. What amount violence is good for everybody and what amount is not?
Nahkapaska 1 year ago
If one is truly a student of K9 behavior than I challenge them to truthfully watch the dogs in this video and answer this question: are these dogs really being coerced? The truth is they are quite comfortable and happy. E-collar nay sayers have no real concept of the training method and tout it as evil while having no experience. Secondly, I would love to see them work with several of our high drive K9's that have no interest in tricks or treats. Something tells me that will never make the show
GeorgiaK9NTC 1 year ago
Hi Mike check out my new video titled ''Shock Collars'' you get a mention at the end ; ]
panzertoo 1 year ago
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springborodogpack 1 year ago
I don't care about being the "top" in agility or anything dog related. I want to have FUN with my dog. And I want my dog to also have fun. Oh and I happen to know some of the world team members and akc and usaa national winners who HATE the use of shock collars.
AgilityLover94 1 year ago
@AgilityLover94 Wow... 4 comments on something you know nothing about? Watch the video closely, does any dog look like it's in pain? They all look happy and tails waggin', yet EVERY dog in EVERY clip you see is getting "touched" by the ecollar. Maybe, just maybe, there's is something going on that You don't know.
gettingfatsucks 1 year ago
@gettingfatsucks I do know about shock collars. I work with a trainer and we have seen many dogs that have had "training" with shock collars, chock chain, ect..Ive seen shock collars leave scars on dogs necks! Its so sad. I know all about shock collars. Ive read books, stuff online, and ive been to seminars about them. Believe me, i know.
AgilityLover94 1 year ago
@gettingfatsucks But like Victoria says' "The people who say, 'We're dog trainers, and the way we're going to train your dog, your puppy, is to put a shock collar on it." Im not calling myself a "pro" dog trainer, but i can train my dogs and other peoples dogs just fine w/o any use of negitive reinforcement.
AgilityLover94 1 year ago
I don't care about being the "top" in agility or anything dog related. I want to have FUN with my dog. And I want my dog to also have fun. Oh and I happen to know some of the world team members and akc and usaa national winners who HATE the use of shock collars.
AgilityLover94 1 year ago
i say great video. we have our first negative response and yes this is a free country. however, i would like to see the training toolbox of some of the TOP agility trainers, TOP akc obedience, TOP schutzhund, TOP french ring. i would venture to say the majority have them and use them. LOVE the vid.
springborodogpack 1 year ago
I have my dogs think being with and coming to me is the best thing on earth. Not by making them think Oh god, if i dont stay right next to you or come the very sec. you call me im going to get hurt! Of couse dogs are going to obey you!! If your a "trainer" why do you need a shock collar to help you?? Why dont you yourself train the dog? NEVER will i EVER put a shock collar on any dog i own or work with.
AgilityLover94 1 year ago
Very sad..Its almost painful to watch this. Why do you feel the need to shock a dog to get it to obey?? Its not right. This video proves NOTHING. Thoese dogs are glued to your side because they know if they move they are going to get a shock! These dogs are doing their best to avoid pain. Both of my dogs were able to have a nice heel and be off leash in only 2-3 days of working w/ them and using POSITIVE training.
AgilityLover94 1 year ago
Hi Mike do not let that woman bother you ,you know the Brits know nothing about remote collars, ; ] xxoo
panzertoo 1 year ago
Mike, You got some great moves! Way to show how they work- not talking about how they don't work!
smsboston 1 year ago
Excellent Work Mike.
dogsquadaz 1 year ago
it is true the greatest ignorance is denouncing something you know nothing about. thanks for the video. now how do we get it on tv????
kathysK9training 1 year ago
Best video I have seen in a while. The end is classic.
AlexTutterrow 1 year ago
Great job, Mike, awesome video!
leonardletoto 1 year ago
Perfectly done Mike- kudos to you!!
smskzimmerman 1 year ago
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AlexTutterrow 1 year ago
Nice job Mike!!!
chrislaseterSMS 1 year ago
Great Video Mike!!!!!!!!!! One of my favorites
DarinShepherd 1 year ago
THANK YOU!!
CathyPote 1 year ago
Grrrreat video! I love the ending! Way to go : )
LianneHassen 1 year ago
Good job MIke!
alfredoorivera 1 year ago
I can speak from personal experience that Mike (and other responsible trainers using remote collars forr that matter) cares very much about the proper and humane treatment of dogs. Victoria has incorrectly lumped all trainers into the misuse category. The collar I use (purchased from Mike) gives my dog a vibrating message that I am giving him a command. Victoria must also feel that guiding my dog with my hand or foot is akin to punching or slapping them!
rdenfam4 1 year ago