Who wrote the Book of Hebrews? Christian Apologist Dr. James White " We DON'T KNOW !!? "

[imreadyyo26]

hold on......what makes you a sinner? does anyone know what makes a person a sinner? because according to the bible all that are born from the womb of a female is a sinner. and knowone knows the details of the life of jesus. and he was never considered without fault. he killed a tree,didnt he? wouldnt that make alot of people upset? isnt that a sin. small but still a sin. so what really makes you a sinner?

[andy08s]

Ending doesn't make sense, Christian writings were not written for profit, and they were not given attributes of divinity in order to maximize sales of scriptures. So the end excerpt from Quran does not fit in this argument.

[imreadyyo26]

@andy08s it wasnt talking about a money profit. if i invent a lie saying god is a man and he gave us all a free pass to heaven" my gain would be the billions of gullible followers. not money.

[followerofjesus1984]

we believe because we have proof .. atleast if we question our faith we get answers in Quran n ahadiths.. with u the only answer is OH IT ALL COMES DOWN TO FAITH!

nope it comes down to evidence as i have shown, u are not allowed to question ur faith, and we are told to question it, and that is what we do

the quran state it clearly those who question they faith lose their faith = islam

[followerofjesus1984]

baseless..blind faith .. really how can u say this when we have all these manuscripts, 6000 archological discovories, and much more .. and its not blind faith ... it historical faith and the truth

the crucifixion of jesus the most and best attested fact of history and on this one thing alone the quran is made false

U believe only because u want to believe wot ur ancestore have believed

none of my ansestors believe in God as far as i know --- so not true

[followerofjesus1984]

Can u prove any of that with bible--- the codexes sinaticus and vaticanus, from 300 -400 ad, chester beatty codexes from 200 ad, these have all the new testament books ... we have fragmantory scripte like john ryland on john and many other, the latin volgate from 4th - 5th century

and all together it is around 24,633 manuscripts of the new testament and 229,4600 of the old testament including nash papyrus manuscriots, dead sea scrolls septuigent, and many others

[tadpoleposition]

Thumbs up if your brain became pretzelized attempting to understand James' response.

[UrukEngineer]

Watching this debate and reading these posts I am saddened by the clear hostility between christians and muslims.

This is all utterly pointless. There is almost certainly no god. No please show some humanity to one another.

Peace.

[saaif55]

Prophet jesus(p.b.u.h) is a messenger of God(Allah).

[exposemyfoes]

What foolishness how can you believe something to be inspired by god when you dont know who wrote it for all you know the writer of the book could ve been any tom dick and harry

[exposemyfoes]

What foolishness how can you believe something to be inspired by god when you dont know who wrote it for all you know the writer of the book could ve been any tom dick and harry

[SelfToChrist]

@exposemyfoes The author of Hebrews isn't important. What is important is if it is consistent with the rest of scripture. Hebrews is very consistent and there are no contradictions found anywhere in the bible. So basing whether the bible is inspired or not from the fact that the author of Hebrews is unknown is just being ignorant to the reality that the bible is God breathed and has no contradictions, no flaws, and it's truly God's word.

[exposemyfoes]

@SelfToChrist my god,how can it not b important tat d author of hebrews is unknown,how blind r u,so any person could've been d author behind it n could've wrote it for any reason yet u believe he was inspired,and if u believe that the bible dont contain contradictions than i cant carry this conversation with u,because your fooling yourself, benjamins sons r mentioned 3 times in the old testament and each time they r given different names and the number of kids he had differs, how did judas die

[SelfToChrist]

@exposemyfoes Your logic is wrong. You are making the assumption that the author of Hebrews is more significant than what the book actually communicates. Hebrews is consistent with the rest of the NT. If Hebrews contained anything other than the truth it would make lies out of other truths throughout scripture. You are overlooking a vital fact. The focus of the question SHOULD be whether or not Hebrews is consistent with the rest of scripture. It is consistent so what's the problem?

[ThePtno1]

I think that was a great answer by J white. too bad muslims are so spiritually blind they cant see it

[jamesannaswamy]

If the book is anonymous that doesn't mean its credibility is lost. The writing skills of the Hebrews resembles very much with the style of Paul.

This letter was written to the Hebrews and perhaps the writer may had in his mind that the Jews too might read that to understand the things thats why he didn't revealed his identity.

Paul can be the most probable writer as He was later hated by the Jews for his conversion to Christ.

[followerofjesus1984]

i wish muslim would stop these baseless claims of corruption .... not knowing the writer of a certian work does not make it untrustworhty

lets spin this around, you all say as muslims that ur prophet was illiterate, meaning he not read or write, so who wrote the quran, as u can not directly attrabute it the prophet

if ur claim are logical and consistant then in doing ur little sharade u have disproven the quran, so why trust it

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 U see that is exactly y Mohammad pbuh was illetrate..coz if he were well educated ppl wud have claimed that this man has so much knowledge of science,medicine,history,astno­my, and all other studies dat he came up wid Quran ... U r jus ppl who don't want to believe. Mohammad learned Quran... Muslims today do it still..they learn Quran by heart ,it's called Tahfeez-e-Quran. Mohammad was taught Quran by angel Gabriel,then Quran was compiled by one of his companions

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 We do have atleast two strong bases to believe that Quran is the divine Book ..

1) It was compiled in the lifetime of Mohammad... There were atleast 100 winesses who gave their word that it was exactly the way Mohammad pbuh has recited to them .

2) Quran has never been revised since... u can compare copies of Quran from the 18th century,12th century or even with the copy that belonged to the prophet himself.

Bible has no base... So the logic rests with us not wid u...thanx!

[followerofjesus1984]

@Seemiization interesting ... to point 1 .... u must be the only one to think the quran was compiled in the life time of muhammad .. evidence show a very differen thing .. there are 2 or 3 codexes which date anywhere between 150 -200 after muhammads time on eath

and even if we go by what the hadith tell us it was compiled by uthman as the standised text we have today as least 20 years later in 650-655

personal i go with the first one as the evidence is more accepted by historians

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 No m not the only one .... u don't even know the history of it then dear ... Which historians? was any MUSLIM historian one of them?? Quran was Completed and multiple compiled were available at the time of Prophet pbuh... that is the major difference between bible n Quran , U can oh i dun believe that but that is the FACT... u need to get ur facts straight friend.. this is not a war of religions... not m tryin to convert u but here is a clarification of ur misconception.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984  Part 1

: The Qur'an was revealed to Prophet Muhammad piecemeal at different times and on different occasions according to events, incidents and in answer to questions. As soon as he received one, he used to communicate it to his disciples and ask them not only to learn it by heart, but also to write it down and to multiply the copies.Diverse materials were used for inscription: parchment, leather, wooden tablets, camels' scapula, soft stone, etc.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:2

On each occasion, Prophet Muhammad indicated the precise place of new revelation in text of till-then-revealed Qur'an. Wheneva a passage of Qur'an was revealed to him, he not only dictated it to one of his amanuenses, but also ordered him at end to read out wot he had taken down, in order to b able to correct if a mistake was committed by scribe. During da last yrs of his life, the Prophet used to employ several amanuensis 4 takin dictation of newly received revelation

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 Part 3 :

Among em one can mention: Ibn Mas'ud, Ubaiy ibn Ka'b, and Ali ibn Talib. Chief of those amanuenses was Zaid ibn Thabit, an early Muslim and one of the Prophet's close Companions.

Prophet Muhammad recommended dat the faithful learn Qur'an by heart. Thus, durin the Prophet's lifetime, dere were large numbers of "Hafizoon" who knew the whole of Qur'an by heart.This practice of memorizing the Qur'an continues to this day!

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P4

It is very common now a days to find hundreds of thousands of Muslims, some of them as young as 12 years old, who are memorizing the whole of Qur'an by heart. Special schools now exist that train their students on how to memorize the Qur'an and properly recite the verses. Local and international competitions are also held in many Muslim countries between those "Hafizoon".

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:5

The nature of the revelation necessitated dat the Prophet should recite the verses of the Qur'an constantly to his Companions and check continually dat the sequence and the contents of the fragments were correct. It is authoritatively known that the Prophet recited every year in the month of Ramadan, in presence of the Archangel Gabriel, the portion of the Qur'an till then revealed, and that in the last year of his life, Gabriel asked him to recite the whole of it twice.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 p:6

The Prophet concluded thereupon that he was soon going to depart his life. The Prophet's Companions used to attend these public recitations (called ardan) and corrected their private copies of the Qur'an. The chief amanuenses, Zaid ibn Thabit, was present at this final bringing-together of the texts. It is also known dat the Prophet was in the habit of celebrating an additional service of worship during the fasting month.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:7

In the Taraweeh prayers the whole of Qur'an was recited from the beginning to end in the course of the month. This service continues to be observed with great devotion to this our day.The Caliph Abu-Bakr felt the urgency of codifying the Qur'an, and acting on a suggestion from Omar (the future second Caliph), Abu-Bakr asked Zaid ibn Thabit to prepare a fair copy ( from the already present compilation)of the entire text of the Qur'an in the form of a book.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 p:8

The Caliph instructed Zaid to consult all the information he could assemble at Medina: the witness of the "Hafizoon", and the copies of the Qur'an written on various materials belonging to private individuals, all with the object of avoiding possible errors in transcription.The fair copy of the Qur'an thus prepared was called the Mus'haf (literally bound leaves).

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P : 9

As Islam was spreading rapidly into different parts of the world, the second Caliph, Omar, felt the need of sending authentic copies of the text of Qur'an to the provincial centers, to avoid deviations. Omar died before he could start this task, and it was left to the third Caliph, Uthman, to accomplish it.Uthman caused immediately the Mus'haf prepared for Abu-Bakr to be entrusted to a commission, presided over by Zaid ibn Thabit, for preparing 7 copies of Mus'haf

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 p:10

Uthman authorized them to revise the old spelling if necessary(ONLY THE SPELLINGS NOT THE TEXT) When the task was completed, the Caliph ordered a public hearing of the new edition before the experts present in Medina, from the Companions of the Prophet, and then sent these copies of the Mus'haf to the different centers of the vast Islamic world. These original copies of the Mus'haf are known as the "Uthmani Mus'hafs."

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:11

The Caliph Uthman gave an order to destroy all versions or copies of the Qur'an in circulation that deviate in any way from the text thus officially established.( TO GET MUSLIMS ON THE SAME ORIGINAL MUS'HAF)

It is known now that two copies of the original Mus'hafs sent by Uthman to the provincial centers of the Muslim world are still in EXISTENCE; one of them in the Topkapi Museum of Istanbul, and another in Tashkent.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:11

In addition to these copies there exist many manuscripts of the Qur'an, both complete and fragmentary, dating from the first century of the Hijrah onwards. The millions copies of Qur'an in circulation amongst the Muslims these days are exact copies of the original Uthmani Mus'haf. The only differences are in the spelling of some words and the way they are written ( Arabic is a language which has various dialects), which in NO WAY change the meanings of the verses.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 p:13 (THE LAST ONE WAS NUMBER 12,SORRY)

This stands as a CLEAR ATESTATION to the AUTHENCITY of Qur'an & its preservation for more than 1400 years since its revelation to Prophet. Qur'an is the only Holy Script that survived without changes, additions, or deletions. There are many circumstances and factors Dat collaborated in preserving the original text of Qur'an which were not enjoyed by other Holy Scripts (the Old Testament or the New Testament).

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 p: 14

These factors are summarized in the following:

1)- The Qur'an was preserved in a written form during the life of the Prophet. Although Prophet Muhammad did NOT know how to read or write, however, he had several amanuensis who were entrusted with the inscription of the revelations

2)- The whole text of Qur'an was memorized by heart by many of the Companions of the Prophet. This formed an additional means to guarantee the correctness of the written text of the Qur'an.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 p:15

3)Prophet Muhammad used to review the till-then-revealed verses of Qur'an with Archangel Gabriel every year in a process called "ardan". In the last year of his life, the Prophet reviewed the whole text of the Qur'an twice. The Companions of the Prophets also reviewed the Qur'an they were memorizing and what they have in written form with the Prophet.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:16

4) The Qur'an was compiled in a single book (Mus'haf) a few months after the death of the Prophet. The correctness of the text of this Mus'haf was reviewed and attested by the "Hafizoon" from the Companions of the Prophet.

5) Qur'an was revealed in Arabic and in the dialect of Kuraish, the tribe dat was living in Mecca; this dialect was most widely used among Arabs. (conts. on 17)

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:17

5 contd) Arabic is a highly stable language that, for the last 1400 years, has not suffered any changes in vocabulary, grammar, spelling, or pronunciation. The stability of the Arabic language The stability of the Arabic language is definitely an important factor in preserving the teachings of Islam. It is fair to say here that the Qur'an and the Arabic language have positive mutual effects on each other.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:18

The fact that the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic made Arabic the language of Islam that all Muslim ought to learn and use in reciting Qur'an and studying the different sciences related to the religion of Islam.

When Prophet Muhammad died he left behind a strong Islamic State in Arabia with thousands of devout companions and followers. Unlike Jesus pbuh ... who was REJECTED by his people ..his language is not used anymore ... We still read Quran in the same language.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 P:19

The devout Muslim companions and followers of Muhammad pbuh are the ones who carried Islam to different parts of the world, and in less than ten years from the death of the Prophet were able to conquer both the Roman and Persian Empires. Devout followers usually preserve the teachings of their leader after his death, and protect it from any changes or corruption.

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 Can u prove any of that with bible??? Enlighten me with the history of bible please...Names... A state , an original copy? U can't ur faith is baseless..blind faith ..U believe only because u want to believe wot ur ancestore have believed.. thats all.. we believe because we have proof .. atleast if we question our faith we get answers in Quran n ahadiths.. with u the only answer is OH IT ALL COMES DOWN TO FAITH!

[followerofjesus1984]

@Seemiization to ur second point --- the quran has never been revised ..... well if ur hadiths are anything to go by in the years proceeding the death of muhammad there were a number of qurans which read differently with different number of surah some 111, 1114, 116 ... till uthman revised it in one codex and burnt the rest to hisde the proof of not having one standard form

[followerofjesus1984]

the message of the gospel has never changed, dispite a few contested passages, which are known about ... and language update which helps us

every work of history , when it comes to have a number of copies has varients ... but the quan is not historical but still has varients

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 Quran is the only Holy book with a HISTORY... Mohammad left behind Arabia, THe Arabic is still used as the language of Quran ... How can u say Quran is widout history? Varients? I aswered to all ur misconceptions.. THe message that says Jesus is son of God has not changed .. But so much has been added.. we have one Quran n nothing has been added to it...U have wot 28 in the series? Bible has no history because for history u need date, witnesses, names ..

[followerofjesus1984]

@Seemiization no, u didnt answer nothing ... the history u gave came from the souces outside the quran, right the tasirs , history s and biographies, and the hadiths which all were compiled and written some two humndred years after the prophet died ... not very reliable for historians

the quran being the only holy book ... not ture, if we count the fact that it contain many distorted story which already existed before the prophets time on earth -- from the bible, talmud, gnostics gospels

[Seemiization]

@followerofjesus1984 Jews have PAlestine/ISrael, Hindus got India , Muslims have Arabia ( as a base ,a place a history to religion).. wot do christians have? wot history u got? Jews have Hebrew , Muslims Arabic, Hindus Sansikrit .. Christians?? We all hang on to our language of Holy book... We still have Holy places of worship... Wot do christians have? Just a blind faith my friend ... Who wrote bible? Who was appointed by Jesus in a clear cut statement as his apostle?Whom did he name? no one!!!

[followerofjesus1984]

@Seemiization interesting summerisation .. all u have proven is that islam is of an earthly origin, prehaps a human desire ---- but for us christian we strive that which is not of the world .. meaning we dont base our hopes in this world .. rather we base our hopes in something far greater than the world .. in eternal life

and another point if isreal is the jews why does islam want it so bad ... possibly a jealousy issue ... cos they Gods chosen people and u have nothing but hatred for them

[followerofjesus1984]

@Seemiization what history do christians have .. a very strong one ... which is the jewish history and christian history .... u on the other hand u have nothing but conjecture

what language ... every language which christian speak is the language of the christian... but we do not have one particular one cause we not of this world

[followerofjesus1984]

@Seemiization we have jewish christian and arabic christians .. but u have an incomprehenible language which an estimated 5 % read, write and fully understand ... so do u fall intothat 5 %

or are u a mindless parrot

we worship in spirit and truth .. we dont need a place ... for the body of christ is that is the place of worship

[followerofjesus1984]

whom did jesus appoint as his apostles ... matthew 10 : 1 - 4 and actszcts 1 : 12 -14 .. matthew, john, thomas, peter , andrew, james, phillip, andrew, bartholomew, james, simon and judus

and the new addition to replace judus --- matthias

[milkydud]

To my Muslim friends and readers of my question...

Did Jesus and the prophets of Bible celebrate "Jamarat"?

If no, would this not make them Muslim?

[TheDaiz999]

This is nothing new we don't know who wrote gospel according to mark gospel according to matthew gospel according to luke gospel according to john We don't know who is the author of revelation we don't know who wrote 1 timothy 2 timothy titus

[Seemiization]

@TheDaiz999 Exactly our point .. u dont know :) ... Then how can u call it the word of Jesus when it was written like a story after Jesus pbuh was gone ? He dint even get to have a say on all ur versions .. Ur Prophet never said that yes this is the book givben to me by God and yes This is all true word to word... it;s the prophet u believe in right? oh or maybe u believe i anyone who wrote that... oh I see..now i get it...Jesus' own clear cut statement dont matter to u...

[followerofjesus1984]

@Seemiization im not certian what this is all about ... but to clear one thing up ... Jesus is not just a prophet ... he is Gods son ... and he is our creator

[sulmanjohnk]

I didn't find a single word where Dr. James White admits that Bible is corrupt!

[muslim9x9x]

Christianity has literalized or misconstrued the Old Testament teachings on SIN. GOD forgives all sins (Prov. 16:6), the concept of Human sacrifice (Jesus) is PAGAN and unknown to the Jews. Genesis never says Adam committed a SIN. The word "sin" first appears in Gen. 4:8 in association with CAIN. So the first "sin" was done by CAIN, not Adam. They only made a MISTAKE and were forgiven (Quran). The Quran says they became WRONG DOERS not sinners. Gen says GOD cursed the GROUND, not Adam (Gen 3:17)

[muslim9x9x]

There was no "Original Sin" (but Original Forgiveness) because he was pardoned. He was sent to Earth as a TEST. Augustine taught that Adam's sin inherited by man, forcing GOD to commit suicide! He sent the Law IN VAIN only to abrogate it 1,500 years later! How could Jesus' sacrifice be eternal when he only suffered for 3 hours? It wasn't everlasting. Yet, GOD punishes the sinners in Hell (purgatory) for MANY YEARS based on amount of sins. He may choose to forgive (Prov. 16:6) or punish.

[pigsfood27]

@muslim9x9x Jesus is the King of the Jews. During His life, thousands of Jews followed Him and believed in Him. The thing about Jews today is that back in the time of Jesus, the High Jewish Priests were offended by Jesus because He openly pointed out their hypocrisies and selfish ways in front of everyone numerous times. They got pissed and taught everyone in their churches not to believe in Him. The poorer, less church-based Jews that believed in Christ left Israel and started Christianity.

[ResurrectedThinker]

I really could be missing something, so if I am please let me know, but what is the point of this video? What does the fact that we don't know for certain who wrote Hebrews have to do with anything?

[MCDebate]

@ResurrectedThinker well if you don't know for certain who wrote the book of hebrews then you should STOP saying that the bible is a word of God or the bible is AUTHENTIC because its NOT

[ResurrectedThinker]

@MCDebate I still don't get it.

Premise 1. We don't know who wrote the book of Hebrews.

Conclusion: Therefore, the Bible isn't authentic or the Word of God...

Huh?? I don't understand your logic.

[sulmanjohnk]

@ResurrectedThinker Well ask them do they know how Quran was compiled??? who write which surah in WRITTEN form???? whose recitation have they used as a base????? can u show the top 4 reciters whom ur prophet nominated AGREED upon the quran u have in ur hands today????

[ResurrectedThinker]

@sulmanjohnk I still do not understand. Why does the fact that we don't know who wrote Hebrews mean that Hebrews is unreliable? You're the one making the objection, so you're the one who needs to demonstrate that there is some sort of inconsistency between believing that the Bible is trustworthy and not knowing who wrote it. Until you can do that I have no reason to take these objections seriously.

[zieraq]

they have to 'deal with it' so they can continue preaching the religion. after all Christianity is a spin off from roman empire pagan religion.

[escobar18769]

@sightupon light well said!

[sightuponlight]

The bullsh!t doesn't stop flowing from this christian mouth !

[5graffitiartist5]

@sightuponlight come on bro

lets not use such bad words like bs

May Allah forgive us.

Let us be try to be mercyful and kind like the prophet even though we blow it sometimes but we can try.

Salaam.

[sightuponlight]

@5graffitiartist5 WalikumAslaam Bro, I understand what you are trying to say, I respect that. However, did you see that I mispelt the word by purposely using an ''!'' instead of an ''I'' ?? If I have offeneded you please forgive me.

Peace.

[AadamInsaan]

-believing in a trinity ....not even explicit mentioned by Jesus.....

-bellieving in Jesus being a god ....when he never said it by his own words......

-beliving in The Original Sin ....never mentioned by Jesus himself in his own words

-believing in a Book , where the origin is not clearified .....(not all of it)

-this must be classified as a "belief"

what is it ?? Please see , open Your eyes.

Christians come back to worshipping THE ONE UNIQUE CREATOR....

come back join us.

[Tchado1000]

Holy crap ! Did Dr.White just base a whole argument and went left and right , and claimed it was a response to Islam from a book he admits to be unknown ??? I'll never understand how christians do it.

[jamesannaswamy]

@Tchado1000 Even the muslims aren't aware of who wrote the Qur'an? Qur'an has been revised twice atleast. Firstly by Abu Baqr and then by Uthman.

So how come you can be 100% sure that your Qur'an doesn't lack any thing which was originally revealed to your prophet?

[Tchado1000]

@jamesannaswamy

LOL ! Muslims know exactly who wrote the Quran , GOD ! and the quran was not "revised" , it was COMPILED ! As in 'made into one book' , the bible is what gets revised over and over again , not the Quran.

How are we sure we have the quran 100% ?? NARRATION CHAINS ! we have over 10 narration chains of the quran that can be traced all the way back to prohet muhammad (pbuh) , why dont you use that ? Oh wait ! it refutes you thats why !

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 No he didn't do that. What he did say was that the book of Hebrews was written to those bringing similar arguments to the table; they included mainly Jews (Hebrews who didn't believe in the deity of Jesus). His comment was that he faces similar argument today from Islamic based argument. We do not know who penned the book of Hebrews but we know who wrote it. The fingerprint is undeniable

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

wth are you talking about ? PLEASE READ YOUR COMMENT AGAIN and realize the gibberish you wrote man !

Ok from what I understood from your comment , the book of hebrews was written to argue against the jews , and you say you know who wrote the book of hebrews....ummm name and history of that person please ?

wth does "we dont know who penned X , but we know who wrote it" mean anyway ??

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 What I mean is in 2 Peter 1:21

"For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.". Therefore, regardless of who penned the writing its author was the Holy Spirit. Why does it matter who actually wrote it - it would not change the message.

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

PART 1

First of all you just admit that you cant give me a name or a history , interesting

OMG ! are you serious man ? basically you are saying its ok not to know who wrote scripture as long as it doesn't change the message ? so let me get this straight , lets say YOU write a letter than agrees with the bible message , you are saying it's ok to add it to the bible ? anything you write , can we add dr.james white's books the bible too ? can we ?

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 The point I am trying to make here is that the Holy Spirit inspired these writings. This is the author.I

As for the next point, about me writing a letter, whats up with that - My advice is to read what you write before you hit the send button - typos everywhere

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

ANY PERSON can make the claim that they were inspired by the holy spirit , in fact during the first few centuries of Christianity many did , but their writings are not in the current bible , in fact any person can claim they are inspired by God , saying that their writings is inspired alone is not good enough , we must examine the person himself and any origins of his writings.

That is why we must know the author .

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 Can you see that you are so wrapped up in self confidence - how do YOU know these things, YOU were not there! Someone told YOU - why did YOU believe them?

[Seemiization]

@alanmrogers71 I can answer that question :) ... Y do we believe?ohammad has been prophecized in Bible.. by Moses.. in Hindu Scripture etc... The first one to say that Mohammed is a prophet of God was a jew Rabbi...now y we believe in Quran..

1) Revelation of quran was completed in lifetime of Mohammad pbuh..

2)Mohammad pbuh preached about Quran (the whole book was compiled)

3) No changes have been made to Quran as we do ahve the copy that belnged to Prophet himself.

4)It has neva been revised

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

PART 2

The reason why it's important to know who the author is ,to confirm the message , we dont know most of the authors of the NT or the OT , we dont if they were witnesses , trust worthy , or if they are lairs , so on what basis can even confirm what the original message was ? 2 Peter 1:21 ?? ha ! even that letter is of doubtful origins !

How do you confirm the message if you dont know who was inspired to write ?

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 Your logic seems reasonable, unfortunately the premise is questionable: If you received a letter from the Bank with an official embossment and a signature of the General Manager would you accept that as authentic?

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

Of course I would accept it as authentic because it has the signature and official info that can be tracked back , do you know this wrecks your case ? the author of hebrews didnt leave a single thing to identify himself , unlike bank statements :P

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 Have a close look at one of those letters from the Bank next time. Its a copy, do you really think the Bank Manager signs and writes each one! I bet you think he licks the stamps as well. Legal (implying authentic) documents cannot be photocopies and therefore you seem to believe upon anything that fits YOUR ideals. Good thing It is the message and NOT the author that needs the vote. I might at this point adopt your logic and choose to disagree with you because I dont know you.

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

PART 3

Basically what I'm saying is , the bible gives us a certain message , most of the bible authors are unknown , so how do I know this message is true and not fabricated by a bunch of loons ? if you can give me 100% proof that the disciples of Jesus or Jesus himself wrote the NT and they were 100% inspired by God to write this , this would've been a different situation for you right now , really.

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 Basically what you are saying has changed. You are now just plain argumentative. Do you need 100% guarantee to believe? What in this world gives 100% and what is being guaranteed? Please don't be glib in your response, answer honestly.

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

Yes I demand 100% to believe , this is my destiny here , my after life , not some argument about what to have for breakfast.

the Quran gives 100% proof its the word of God , Islam gives 100% proof its the religion of God , prophet Muhammad (pbuh) gave 100% proof he is a true prophet and messenger of God ..... and what is guaranteed ? Salvation !

I am answering honestly here.

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 There you go again "I demand". Newsflash princess, no-one gets 100%. That is why it is called FAITH - belief without evidence. Sure, you may have 95% proof and 5% Faith, but no-one gets 100% proof. That would imply that YOU were God. And of course we all know that you're not, although we're not 100% sure, but I would need a lot of FAITH to believe that YOU were. This point is not even about which God, its about the fact that you cant get that 100%. Don't even bother.

[moeazysgc]

@alanmrogers71 Islam provides Proof n Faith! However Christianity is based on Blind Faith without any Assurance n No evidence that of which it Claims(trinity)! Christians follow blindly Paul the false apostle n Council of Nicca who inserted Pagan beliefs n rituals into Christianity many of the scriber's r unknown to this have added n changed many of isa(as) teaching n message from God Almighty! The devil Satan has penetrated n Corrupted this religion n is misleads Christians,God was not a Man!

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

PART 4

Here is an example , I claim the Quran the inspired by God just like you claim for your bible , but I know exactly who the Quran was inspired to , it was to prophet Muhammad (pbuh) , so now I can check history to see if this person was a true prophet , practiced what he preached , spoke the truth or not , examine his revelations , test his message...etc now with the book of hebrews , I cant do any of this , so there is no good reason to believe a word in it.

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 Were you there when it was written? Where is your 100%. Nevertheless, the funny thing about YOUR religious belief is that (not the religion, but yours) is that it has to suit YOU. Effectively your demands for authenticity and validity only can suggest that YOU are the god of your religion, effectively making you an Atheist.

[Tchado1000]

@alanmrogers71

I have no idea what this comment means man , scramble something better than that , how did I become an atheist again ?

no I wasn't there , but the prophet himself was and I know who he is (unlike the author of hebrews and most of the bible) so I can examine the claims made and after I examine the claims made by the Quran and prophet muhammad , I deduced they are 100% true.

Simple isn't it ?

[alanmrogers71]

@Tchado1000 YOU demand authenticity like it is all about YOU being convinced before YOU put your mark of approval on it and believe. It must meet YOUR standard and therefore you are the god of your religion. This is not a dig at Islam, by no means, this whole argument has become about YOUR belief when all i stated was a defense for some other guy in a video. In your defense you have only quoted yourself, never the Quran. That is what Atheists do! And that is how you became an Atheist

[izBaku]

@Tchado1000

He is just a scholar not of your caliber . Give him a break. I'm sure you challenged him for a debate but he is avoiding you. I'm sure you would be able to point out to him and the world his inconsistencies and "left and right" stuff but .... Oh, well......