Air traffic control blunder - wellington (NZ) international airport - 04 Nov 2009

[AviationCEO]

You should rename this video clip. As you can see from the comments below from reputable aviation sources this video does not indicate an 'ATC blunder' but a day to day reality of 'pushing tin' at a busy airport. This clip could easily be named 'Air New Zealand blunder' but again for a very wrong reason.

As a businessman associated with a major airline, I would contest such slander on my profession intently.

Please correct this defamation being placed on professional, reputable ATC's.

[jastheace999]

Hey mate, how did all your ATC testing go? I am quite interested in becoming a controller. What tower do you work at?

[downundervids888]

@jastheace999 Hey thanks for your comment, didn't end up doing it in the end. Working in a similar industry just not ATC. Still love flying though!

[AviationCEO]

@downundervids888 What similar industry do you work in?

[milliondollervideos]

did the nz caa investagate this ? or this is this just another those shell be right kiwi things were no bugger takes resposability for a near disaster ? but still gets there big fat pay packet at the end of the week

[blackmamba2894]

the so called "ATR" is actually a dash 8 (748SE9RR) with a 30% reduction in tyre volume compared to the dash 8 (648SE9RT) please get facts right this is very irritating

[GrislyAndFriends]

waste of 3 minutes of my life.

[MrMonkeythegreat]

the 'atr' is a dash 8

[58biggles]

Please a 737 is NOT designated a HEAVY nor is the aircraft on the ground an ATR-72 but a Dash 8-Q300.

[snowkiwi9]

Heavy category is 136000 kg and above. 737 is definitely medium which is from 7t to 136t. This may have been a case of the dash being requested ready immediate and a rolling start aand then being unable to once lining up for some reason. Also may be a bad judgement call from tower. The latter I have doubts. Either way, this poster and some of the comments written by people who know a little or think they know a lot about this topic but clearly do not.

[ANZ787]

You're a dick.

[916dubs]

Do yourself a favour, remove this embarrassment from youtube. * rolls eyes * village idiot.

[BrickUnit]

that 737 should have gone around knowing there was traffic on the runway

[oktal3700]

@BrickUnit He was still a couple of miles from the runway by the time the traffic vacated. The distance where you decide whether to land or go around is more like half a mile.

[BrickUnit]

@oktal3700 ok thanks

[lilflyboy262]

Half a mile is a bit close when you are doing 2 to 2 and a half miles a minute don't you think?

[oktal3700]

@lilflyboy262 Dunno. ILS CAT I decision height can be 200ft, which you would pass at about 0.6 miles on a 3 degree glide path. There are plenty of videos of go-arounds from 50ft or less, due to windshear and so on. On the other hand, looking at the charts it turns out Wellington runway 16 missed approach point is 2 miles, so maybe BrickUnit was right all along, not sure. But it seems a bit overcautious when a go-around decision just means you press a button and start pulling back on the yoke.

[unsuspecting]

@lilflyboy262 Shit kiwi.

[lilflyboy262]

@unsuspecting Yay Alex. Whats your problem?

[carde028]

@BrickUnit er, no. Ground traffic must give way to landing traffic.

[GOapeshit14]

@BrickUnit about $2k for a 737 to go around mate!

[Salaison]

@Georgeosaurus seriously??? a dash 8 is an older version of the q200/300? I thought a dash 8 was a dash 8 whether Q200 100 300 Q 300 no matter who made them, you're getting confuse son, what you trying to say is dehavilland made the dash 8-100 series and Bombardier made the Q200 series...no matter who makes them the plane is a DASH 8, Now to the video the pilot could have gotten his clearance and still doing checks whiles taxing into position and ask to vacate the runway because he wasn't ready

[Georgeosaurus]

I'm 12 and think anyone who thinks they are dash 8s knows nothing. air newzealand has q300 and that's what they are. Q300s are alot different in size than dash 8s. Also why say it's a 737 heavy instead of 737 300.

[Andrensn]

@Georgeosaurus Dash-8 is an older version of the Q200 and the Q300.

There was no Q100 becuaese the Dash-8 200 came about before that and the Q400 was never in a Dash-8 model

[lilflyboy262]

@Andrensn Errr Kinda wrong mate. The Q400 is the latest model of the Dash 8.

Any Aircraft produced after 96 I think it was was appended Q as it was given noise suppresion.

There is models of the 200 and 300 with no Q designation.

Where as the Q400 was designed after 96 and all are produced with noise suppresion.

[lilflyboy262]

@Georgeosaurus From memory, Heavy is appended to traffic that fall into the heavy wake turbulence catergory.

I'm also pretty sure the 737 falls in the medium catergory, not heavy.

Dash 8 is the model, and then the number after is the series number, kinda like 737-300 and say a 737-800

[pubuman]

Why would a 737 use the "heavy" appendage? :P

[Airbusvsboeing]

thats nothing. ive seen a dash 8 line up on rw34 with a qantas 737 landing doing the something but was way closer and had to make a moss approach, like less than 250m

[flyboydan]

They would've had permission. But, for one reason or another, the pilot may not have finished their checks or something similar

[flyboydan]

I'm a Wellington controller. The likely scenario is the Dash 8 (not an ATR) was not ready to depart in time so was told to vacate the runway and depart after the 737 lands!

[downundervids888]

@flyboydan hey, sorry about plane mix up...... why would the plane get on the runway without the controllers permission? isn't that like a BIG no no?

[FlyiingKiiwii]

@downundervids888 I would assume he was cleared onto the runway but his take off clearance delayed for some reason leading to the Dash 8 being asked to vacate the runway for the incoming 737, it is unlikely he lined up without clearance.

[kaiwhara]

@flyboydan Agreed, Flown planes before and work in the Train Control Office with Kiwirail. Your scenario seems the most logical, there was still plenty of seperation to my eyes so I wouldn't count this as an infringment, otherwise I would have expected a TAIC inquiry to have been opened. Also, the 737 was not heavy. Seems somebody was reading a lot more into this than what was actually happening.

[MrSlackbladderify]

@flyboydan Don't you mean trainee controller?

[MickeyET7]

Doesn't look that heavy too me. Nice vid btw.

[NZtegmen]

unlikely to be an atc stuff up as the 737 was miles out. Probably the Bombardier needed more time to check something out, so vacated the runway.

[LegendxHD]

lol 737 heavy

[btm247iskl]

lol fail and its a bombarfier not a ATR-27 (ATR-27 is bigger)

[pubuman]

@btm247iskl What exactly is this ATR 27 you speak of?

[ALAJOHNSTONE]

Ohhhh myyyyy god. That was so close!

[916dubs]

I hope you never get close to any role in ATC. WLG & heavys don't even go in the same sentence so there should have been no confusion, especially with a run of the mill 733. If you want heavy try CHC & AKL.

[feejan]

Dude, I don't know how you will ever get a job as an ATC if you over react to something the way you did in this video. As an flight attendant (on the Q300) I want to know that ATC are confident and competent enough to give my pilots the right information. I wouldn't trust an 'enthusiast' like you behind the radio.

[reaperrowledge]

nice vid, but calling a 737 'heavy' lol.....too funy! lmao!

[mattathm]

It's called "protection of the missed approach" if that dash had got airborne and for some reason the jet had to go around it would have caught up to the slow dash pretty quick and caused a nightmare for the controller. Looking at the dash taxing he had a line up clearance well before reaching the holding point as he didnt even slow down but by the time he was ready to go the gap was too small so was told to exit the runway immediately. No biggie.

[kiwipilot84]

interesting video, you dont see that often- But i think youll find it was no drama at all really, that Dash had plenty of time to get moving and out of the way, usually they will be told to line up and expedite (meaning as fast as safely possible) he would not have had a miss-clearance. Without hearing the ATC transcript its hard to tell, may have been a warning light came on in the dash or who knows. ATC at wellington are brilliant anyway, prob the best in NZ and pretty on there game

[kiwipilot84]

Interesting video, you dont see that often- But i think youll find it was no drama at all really, that Dash had plenty of time to get moving and out of the way, usually they will be told to line up and expedite (meaning as fast as safely possible) he would not have had a miss-clearance. Without hearing the ATC transcript its hard to tell, may have been a warning light came on in the dash or who knows. ATC at wellington are brilliant anyway, prob the best in NZ and pretty on there game

[kiwipilot84]

Interesting video, you dont see that often- But i think youll find it was no drama at all really, that Dash had plenty of time to get moving and out of the way, usually they will be told to line up and expedite (meaning as fast as safely possible) he would not have had a miss-clearance. Without hearing the ATC transcript its hard to tell, may have been a warning light came on in the dash or who knows. ATC at wellington are brilliant anyway, prob the best in NZ and pretty on there game

[kiwipilot84]

Interesting video, you dont see that often- But i think youll find it was no drama at all really, that Dash had plenty of time to get moving and out of the way, usually they will be told to line up and expedite (meaning as fast as safely possible) he would not have had a miss-clearance. Without hearing the ATC transcript its hard to tell, may have been a warning light came on in the dash or who knows. ATC at wellington are brilliant anyway, prob the best in NZ and pretty on there game

[feeditbeans]

so much kiwiness in one video

[scheisskopf123]

@absthewonderdog i wasn't putting him down i was owning him.

[Airbusvsboeing]

wellington ATC always do shit like this. i see it like 3 times a week

[grant199]

Simon

Is this your video?

[downundervids888]

yep

[grant199]

Awesome. You must know heaps about aircraft!!!

[downundervids888]

well I thought I did but as you can see from below I have been crucified by others for my mis identification of the planes! Yeah - just a passionate person when it comes to aircraft, but not so good with the names...... (kind of like with people, I am a shocker with names)!

[downundervids888]

@grant199 eh? not simon mate

[radarnz69]

yeah happens a lot, not really a blunder by ATC mate. The Dash would have been given the opportunity to line up with an instruction that they may have to vacate the runway if gap is lost.

[Aspekitteh]

This happened to me on Pacific Blue, we were ready to take-off to CHC when the plane suddenly had to get off because the ANZ 737-300 was too close, Ive also seen another blunder with Sounds Air aborting landing because the ANZ beech was on the runway!

[s340q300]

Often this may happen due to a departure gap being lost or a need to protect the missed approach path. the aircraft will be told to "line up but may have to get you off the runway ". I very much doubt that the Q300 and not the ATR 72 jumped the que not the ATR 72

[MKDMakedonija]

1:34 aborted take off aborted take off bro

[glennav8r]

You are making assmptions due to your lack of understanding on what you are seeing. In order to facilitate a large number of arrivals and departures some times aircraft are cleared to lineup but in the event radar clearance doesn't come through in time, or any other reason the aircraft is not ready, they are asked to vacate the runway

[glennav8r]

Your assumptions that either an ATC blunder or pilot error caused this situation are typical of ill informed people passing comment on subjects they know nothing about, which results in others not only believing what you are saying, but brings the professional aviation community into disrepute.

[glennav8r]

People like you making uninformed statements do nothing but cause anguish amongst others. You should get a job in the media.

[nz787]

Not sure you would call the 737 a 'heavy'. This may have nothing to do with the following 737 traffic at all. There was nothing at all dangerous about that separation.

[downundervids888]

the "heavy" part was sort of said in humour (did you hear my laugh after I said it?)

[downundervids888]

Aircraft call signs will use the suffix "heavy" for large aircraft, to indicate an aircraft that is going to cause significant wake turbulence, e.g. United Two-Five Heavy; All aircraft capable of operating with a gross take-off weight of more than 255,000 lbs. must use this suffix whether or not they are operating at this weight during a particular phase of flight.

[nz787]

That FAA law. This is not the case under CAA regulations in New Zealand, heavy is not used. Nor would a 737 have a MTOW anywhere near 255,000lbs.

As previous comments have mentioned, you have made an assumption based on no actual fact. I apologize if you do indeed have information regarding the event and any possible safety concerns.

[downundervids888]

hi there, no I have a passion for aviation, have family ex air nz (pilot), my wife struggles to drag me away from my FSX at night, and also have been through some exams with airways nz for ATC, the clip was just more of a random thing to capture whilst at the lookout overlooking wellington.

Knew in my mind that the priority is to incoming traffic and had never seen in my life a plane pull off the runway - so gathered it was due to 737.

[glennav8r]

It is actually more commom than what you realise. Maybe you should change the title of the clip, especially as you obviously have or have had intentions of becoming an AIr Traffic Controller. Anyhow, have a great Christmas and thanks for posting the clip.

[scheisskopf123]

umm a passion for aviation? you don't know your planes well. that is not an ATR 72 thats a DH-8 or nowadays called Q300's after the canadian division of de havilland got owned by bombardier. we have heaps in Europe.

[keagang10]

Ive got a feeling that no pilots were at fault and that the Wellington Radar controller was not able to accept a departure as perhaps already co-ordinated with WN tower. Various reasons for this, but certainly not an aborted takeoff or any queue jumping.

[n3odude]

Typical pilots. I can imagine exactly how that conversation went...

"Will you be ready for an immediate?"

"affirm"

"line up"

"line up"

"Ahhh, we need another 2 minutes"

"Get the flock off my runway!!!"

lol

[Lukemister7]

Haha, great timing on being there:P, but that was a bombardier q300 not a ATR. lol, that 737 took its time landing

[downundervids888]

hi thanks for that, have amended the description - always get the two confuses, cheers Dan