WS Cox Plate - Where legends are made, the legend continues.

[pindawgy]

the phatom chance i remember that horse such a battler

[DjOky]

best race in the calendar

[bgardiner2000]

Quality stuff mate. How bout the last 10?

[zedara6481]

Great video. Thank you but it is "legend" not "ledgend" in the title ( a bit like judgment has no 'e" in it). Congratulations and looking forward to your future videos. S

[mattonker]

i love the holy grail and the rocky music for saintly and might and power but you should have played good sports songs for all the other ones as well...a bit of playing to win by johnny farnham ,eye of the tiger, all fired up, paper and fire etc etc would make this an absolutely killer vid then.

[schollinshead]

legend, not ledgend

[tigerrish]

@schollinshead

Who are you referring to mate?

The title is spelt correctly.

[melbguy34]

'92 was such a great field, has there been a better one? Imagine how good it would've been without the fall as well.. I'm biased I admit.. Sydeston has always been my favourite horse.. it's not based on pure stats.. he was never the all time best.. but he was a damn good horse.. 1990 won the caulfield cup.. then just 2nd in the Cox plate.. next year 3rd to Surfers.. 1992.. I always thought he was traveling pretty handy prior to the fall.. a real chance.. horses aren't as tough nowadays..

[tigerrish]

@melbguy34 Sydeston was as tough as they come, in this day he would gap them. He ran the Japan Cup winner to half a length and over the distance I reckon he would have given BLU a shake too. He was as solid as they come the Tassie champ, he had very few chinks in his amour. His win in the CC was almost as dominating as Northerly as far as high weights go.

[jcbruru]

@melbguy34 I agree, the 92 field was stellar.

[pnclick]

You can never get sick of watching this. Absolutely awesome. Loved the Rocky theme to Might and Power, very fitting. Attended all these Cox Plates, and the preview that Moonee Valley puts on before each years addition gives me Goose bumps.

[goodwinmum]

Wanted to mention Super in 92 he may have been lucky to win as Better Loosen Up was stopped in his tracks but what a field of great horses the best cox plate ever in my opinion and courage won the day. Super always put in 4 Randwick miles 2nd and 4th Melb cup 2nd in cox plate previous year. He desereved it.

[Telstramanager]

Definitely mate! What a marvelous horse old Super was. I backed him in 92, but just watching him come home like that was brilliant, wether I backed him or not.

Gives me goosebumps watching it back now

[DodgeeLBW]

@goodwinmum I totally agree, Super, super horse, better than Better Loosen Up, Supers record, though not as many 1sts as some, overall, what a competitor, well done Naomi with Surfers, agreed Tigerrish has some awesome posts.

[naomidarren]

One of my best ever punts was Surfer Paradise

when he won the cox plate...i actually picked him 6 months before after the Rosehill guineas win.

As usual...thanks for the memory's Tiger.

[travispoor]

I still choke up seeing how close Rough Habit got to pipping Solvit in 1994. He was my favourite horse growing up and can still remember vividly cheering on his 92 Stradbroke Hcp win. He would have won the Plate in 1992 but for the other falling in front of him. If he won it in 94 it would be remembered as fondly as Super's win in 92. Instead the 94 Cox Plate is all but forgotten.

[Auszilla]

simon marshall still swears better loosen up should have won in 92 and if u watch the replay he has a very very good point after the interference and chequered run he was flying late, while super impose had a trouble free run down the outside

[tigerrish]

Yeah, he was making ground a lil quicker than Super too. I recall Marshall saying he didnt want to come back to scale, he felt had he taken the horse to the outside of Lets Elope, he would have won. Its all in retrospect though, but BLU was finishing better....ah well, thats racing..lol!

[wmuwadda]

@Auszilla What about the run of Prince Salieri...also very unlucky inside the final 50m. But I still reckon if Let's Elope runs straight...she wins...even giving the others trouble-free runs. What a mighty mare.

[balthazarsmith]

how good was the field in 1992 sheesh

[rasscat]

Away from the winners...

I'd love to know what people thought of Northern Drake. I thought he was very talented and could have been great if it wasn't for all the injuries he had. Won a Yalumba (from memory) very well and ran a great race here in the Cox Plate to Might and Power...

[tigerrish]

I think he had huge potential, he ran second in the AJC Derby, but for whatever reason they trained him up for the Epsom instead of the Caulfield Cup in the spring, wrong option I think. You only have to look at his run in the Cox Plate when 2nd to M&P to see how much abilty he had.

[eretz333]

Is there any footage of Red Anchor and Strawberry Road's victories?

[tigerrish]

Red Anchor's is on the first vid of the Cox Plate I did. I'll upload something on Strawberry Road soon

[westdog54]

How Potent was the 1992 field:

Super, Lets Elope, Palace Reign, Naturalism, Mannerism, Better Loosen Up, Rough Habit

And in 95, Octagonal, Mahogony, Danewin, Jeune.

THE race to win.

[hydromett]

1992 cox plate must be the strongest field ever, featuring melbourne cup winner wnd runner up, multiple doncaster and epsom winner, cox plate winner, caulfield cup, stradbroke, japan cup and super got up as an eight year old.

[tigerrish]

Totally agree, also had a Golden Slipper, Caulfield Guineas, 3 individual Caul Cup winners. Collectively more Grp1 wins to race together in racing history. And the fav who fell, went on to run second in the Japan Cup a month later. The old warrior was the last man standing.

[hydromett]

i could watch this race again and again, thanks to you tube. never thought super impose could get up after having to come from near last and winding the field. was following super all the while but gave up on this race. bugger!!!!!

[spingo80]

hey champ making a little collection of your own tigerrish? it's looking preety good and is well needed.

[blackmourning11]

The main problem as I see it is that if you haven't got within striking distance BEFORE the turn you are gone.

Watch Kingston Town's third win and watch where he was before the turn, it just can't happen anymore.

Those "hold up" types that like to unleash one withering burst down the straight once balanced are forced to make early runs B4 a bend.

Flemington gives every horse a chance, from Might And Power to Doriemus.

[Krang65645]

First time in over a decade iv'e seen Rough Habits second to Solvit and even now it's so defalting to see him just fail by a head. A clear last at the 600m...... sigh

[hydromett]

where can i view some super impose race. just great watching him coming from tail and finishing them off with its big strides

[tigerrish]

I did spy a brief vid on Super Impose thats been posted recently. I have some old vcr footage, but its way too hard to convert it.

[spingo80]

if you want any proof on how this track affects certain horses and favours others then watch sunline's second win.

More to the point watch shogun lodge. every time this horse raced in sydney he went awesome. he ran 2nd in the victorian and ajc derbies and went within a nose of beating sunline in the doncaster hcp.

[tigerrish]

Shogun Lodge was a poor example, he was made to look better than he was by Dye.

Dont disagree with you about the fact the valley is a hoodoo for some horses, bit like Canterbury was too. But thats where a horse shows its versatility when it wins under all conditions. The King, he was ordinary at any other Vic track but put him at MV and he grew another leg....go figure!

[blackmourning11]

I wouldn't use Shogun Lodge because the day he raced there it was rain affected but to say he was made to look better than he was by Dye doesn't hold considering that Glen Boss rode him in many of his big runs.

Kingston Town raced at the Valley before it was changed from turf to strathayr.

[blackmourning11]

Just on Shogun Lodge I can't believe anyone would bag him. He had to be the most unluckiest and under-rated horse ever!

The horse ran 2nd in 12 G1 races and 3rd in two !!! Races like Doncaster, VRC + AJC Derbies, Golden Slipper etc.

The horses that denied him were Lonhro, Northerly, Sunline, Sky Heights, Fairway, Viscount and in his last G1 he dropped dead.

The winner that poor handicapper Titanic Jack.

[blackmourning11]

Shogun Lodge may not have been a "champion" but he was very smart and if he raced in the same era as Makybe Diva he would have been rated as good as her, surely turning at least half of his fourteen G1 placings into victories.

He won three G1's, six G2's and four other black type races.

He won a G1 race every season except at 2yrs where he placed in the Slipper and G1 Champagne Stakes. He won the G2 Pago Pago.

[tigerrish]

Sometimes diff tracks are blamed for horses poor performances, but I dont always think thats the case. Chief de Beers won 20 odd races in his career and they were all at Doomben, take him across the road to Eagle Farm and he won nothing. Those 2 tracks are very similar, go figure. Gallipoli Prince held the record for most wins at MV (16?)but struggled at every other course. I think riders have been responsible for alot of failures at MV more than anything. IMO :)

[blackmourning11]

The amazing thing with Chief De Beers was that he was trained out of Eagle Farm !!!

Doomben has always favoured on pace runners like Chief D.B. Look at the horses that will the Doomben 10,000 then look at those that win the Stradbroke two weeks later.

[tigerrish]

Rough Habit was the odd one out, he won at both tracks and came from some impossible positions too, over varied distances.

[blackmourning11]

My first ever trifecta had Rough Habit for first...

he won but the others let me down.

[tigerrish]

Shogun Lodge was giving Sunline 8 lengths start at the 600 and you think the track was to blame? How many horses do you know that gave her that big of a start and ran her down? Not even Lohnro would have ran her down from that far back and he was the only one capable of beating her with a start. The pace was on and they all had trouble keeping up, it had nothing to do with the track. And yes my assessment of Shogun Lodge was a lil over the top, he was a very classy horse on his day

[blackmourning11]

True.

The only way Lonhro could beat Sunline over 2000m was if he was riden handy as we saw with the Caulfield Stakes.

In fact I believe that Lonhro was always much better on pace over 2000m because the extra distance dulled his sprint.

Also, Lonhro was only ever passed once. Every other loss he failed to run them down.

[tigerrish]

Totally agree with that one, he was ridden perfectly in Caulf Stk to gun her down. Northerly did it in both those Cox Plate defeats too.

[tigerrish]

As much as Id rather not believe it :)

I doubt that she would have won by 7 lengths in her 2nd had Lohnro been there and ridden like that Caulf Stks. Think we would have seen '86 all over again, just as we saw in their only epic.

[blackmourning11]

Hmmm.

It's funny how some let Lonhro off the hook for his 2002 loss because of Beadman's ride yet crucify him for his 2003 loss when he was just as far off the pace.

Fact is that in 2003 nothing went right. Beadman has always been a tactical rider and stayed with Defier and the well backed Clangalang. FOO was an outsider and was overlooked.

Still looked the winner coming into the turn. Couldn't pass Defier, looked more like Fine Cotton.

[tigerrish]

And the track played no part in any of Sunline's wins. Look at the head on shot here at about 8.15, every horse was off the bit trying to keep up, childs hadnt even moved on her and he even took a peek over to see if anyone was there. She didnt sneak away from any of them, they couldnt keep up.

It could have been run anywhere that day and none of them would have still not got any closer than they did here

[blackmourning11]

Since 1995 when the Valley was significantly changed we've seen Savabeel, Sunline, Fields Of Omagh, Northerly, Might And Power all win up on the pace.

While you can't question all those winners you can start wondering why drop out horses also perform so poorly in quality fields at this track.

The track is tailor made for front runners as many backers find once they've balanced up the leaders have gone. The old track allowed backmarkers more chance.

[blackmourning11]

Seriously, how insane is it to have a track where

a) horses make their run on a heavily cambered turn that dips as it straightens

b) has a surface that is akin to racing on a soft track. The track is never firm as it contains a type of mesh between grass and sand, a bit like racing on a sponge.

[tigerrish]

Its the same surface that has now been laid at Flemington. And the days of racing on a fast track are gone and it always creates some type of bias on race days now. A fast track was even right across the track.

[blackmourning11]

Who told you that?

The new Flemington track is turf which is completely different to the all weather strathayr track.

A firm turf track allows horses to accelerate quickly, think of wet sand compared to dry.

The firmer the faster.

[tigerrish]

Only going on what was said on a segment on the spring carnival on 4TAB.

[blackmourning11]

There's no way in hell that they'd ever throw strathayr down at Flemington.

BTW, which Cox Plate do you rate higher, Dulcify's or Sunline's?

[tigerrish]

Thats a toughy that one.

Id lean toward Dulcify only because he was on a stayers prep and he made a continuous run from about 800-900 out. So the fact that he could sustain such a high speed for so long was amazing and he was more known for his brilliant exceleration. But having said that, they were very similar runs from the 600 onward, hard to split. Good qst!

And you?

[blackmourning11]

Dulcify for the reasons you pointed out.

He had to go around the field at pace then just kept going.

Take out the runner up and how far does he win by?

[tigerrish]

Caulfield and Sandown arent exactly racetrack heaven either.

[hydromett]

best stayer  might and power

biggest fluke dane ripper

best mare sunline

oldest winner super impose

youngest winner Octagonal

[spingo80]

you left out most unlukiest horse...filante followed by naturalism, danewin and rough habit.

[hydromett]

oh yes, naturalism lost its rider, and filante got pipped by the ripper, but can't remember how danewin and roughie miss out

[tigerrish]

Filante was a victim of bad riding instructions, Dittman openly said he wanted to let the horse go 800 out but Jack told him to hold him up as long as he could. Was a lil odd considering he won the Epsom Hcp earlier by running along at pace and increasing that from about the 700 and he bolted in.

[rangitamoe]

I would not call Dane Ripper a fluke at all. Thanks to the lunacy by the jockey on Schubert they all took of for home far too early and Dane Ripper just waited patiently for the run to materialize and took advantage. Just a great ride.

Ahhhh Solvit....I was on course that day and won a 4 figure sum when that little beauty held on :)