The price of the Green Car is a SCAM!! They start at 26k to 31k. My 2009 Corolla cost 6k. Now if Gas cost $4-gal, in one year (at 12,000-miles per year) that would be $1,464. So it would take over 14 years i.e; 14 x $1,464 = $20,496,
(Plus the 6k I paid for my corolla). For a total of = $26,496. So an Electric car will TAKE 14 + Years (minis the cost of charging it) to match a Gas car like Corolla.
big oil owns the u.s. govt., so they make electrics too expensive for most people. if electrics take over, too many jobs will be lost. it will, but green jobs will replace them. why be afraid?
No worries, the U.S. is backing the warranty. Government efficiency and professionalism will ensure great customer service. I hear it comes with a deed to your own bridge :)
Target range 40 miles? Useless! Batteries are unreliable heavy and too expensive!!
The USN proved this in the seventies (at a fantastic research cost) when looking for motive power for their nuclear tipped torpedos........they eventually settled for a neat high performance i.c. engine......95HP from 12" x 9" swash plate central shaft engine. Batteries, fuel cells, compressed air all failed in comparison.
Taxpayer money is now financing GM gas-guzzlers for poor credit risks. GM is using part of the money for no-interest loans on foreign SAAB cars, and taking price reductions to finance purchasers of Big Iron that traps them into years of inefficient driving. The net result is to enrich Big Oil, and impoverish the rest of us.
A less oafish administration would have put conditions on the cash handed to GM: no bailout without plug-in cars, and no money to finance gas-guzzlers. After all, it's our money, and GM is in no condition to bargain.
The same folks who complain about "hidden taxes" that support Electric cars and hybrids have no qualms about our Treasury buying stock in GMAC, secured only by hordes of past bad loans on gas-guzzlers of declining value.
Where are the so-called "conservative principles" that refused to regulate GM when it was failing to keep up with the competition? Now that GM is on life-support due to malfeasance and incompetence, these same folks now want to use our money to buy the debt of a wrecked corporation.
Well, I would buy an electric car built by Toyota or Honda, but would pause when buying one from GM, Chrysler, or Ford. If the car makes the market the battery will be designed to give about 36,000 miles of service so it is covered under warranty. After that, the thing will begin to lose charge and the poor purchaser of the car will be driving a crappy gasoline-powered vehicle that costs so much they will have no choice but finish the remaining three years of payments.
So what do you know about EVs or the VOLT? Only what you've been told by your masters at GM, right? It's YOU who should STFU, since you don't know SQUAT.
GM has already stated that the VOLT won't be present in enough numbers to even be worth using for MPG calculations; and GM has stated that the VOLT will lose money for several years, even if it's ever issued. Would you like the references?? Why not study and learn before you say silly things??
If GM is truthful, American citizens ought insist that this model be the only car they make at all their plants for the next 15 years to pay us back for any bailout. There is no need to update models (cost of retooling, design, etc)...there is only a need to keep people employed and end use of foreign oil for personal as well as commercial (Natural gas source) road transport.
CNG is also a viable alternative to oil, and we have plenty of it here. Ironically, if you believe in fuel cells, why not also allow CNG? It's cheaper, operates at lower pressure, and existing tech.
It's a good thing you're in no position of power. I guess you want to kill off the Camaro, Corvette and other cars that are actually fun to drive, and you give the finger to babies, curbstomp puppies, and club baby seals to make your lunch...
We're no against OTHER PEOPLE using gas cars!! All we want is for them to let the free market decide, offer an EV for sale on the free market, give people the choice. So if an EV is not right for GM loyalists, don't stop others from buying one. But GM has been lobbying and suing California to deny us a choice.
If not, I can really recommend it, if you want to get some idea about how the bosses of these huge corporations really think, and how the interests of the customers and society ( low price, good performance, high efficiency, high reliablity, low polution ) are certainly NOT what they have in mind foremost - if at all.
do you get all your info from the movies? GM killed the ev1 because the battery technology at the time wasn't there. The real problem was the government getting involved in their business and forcing them to release technologies that didn't exist at the time. If you want to be upset with anybody, be upset with the gov't for not engaging in principles of free market capitalism.
LOL! We're still driving Toyota RAV4-EV, more than 6 years after last sold; it's funny to hear this same canard, that the "battery is not there"!! Nobody complained about the EV1 range, that's a GM lie.
In the USA, 66% of electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels, mostly coal. Another 19% is generated by nuclear reactors. If we want electric cars which do not depend on fossil fuels then we will need nuclear reactors in every State. How does that grab you?
It's easier to get a high fuel efficiency if you burn the fuel centrally and easier to clean the smoke/store CO2. And you can combine it with district heating ( tubes with hot water or steam for heating or warming
water) in areas where this is nesc.
The electic motor is far more efficient than an ICE (3-4 times !), and the electricity can be made in all sorts of other ways - solar, wind, waves, underground heat. Storing the electricity (charge) efficiently is the major problem left.
In a conventional car the energy from burning fuel is directly applied to pistons which turn a shaft. A power plant heats water, creates steam ,turns a turbine which generates electricity which is moved over wires and stored in a cars' batteries which then provide electricity to turn a shaft. In each of these many steps there is some inefficiency and the sum total is large. In fact, the more central the power plant is the more power is lost in transporting the electricity over the wires.
Yes, I do realise that - sorry, if I wasn't clear about that. However you can reach rel. good effieciencies in most of those steps, epecially if you combine it with other
energy production, using the hot water to
heat houses and bath water (indirectly like we have it here). And I have read that some ICEs have effciencies as embarrassingly low as 15 %. (maybe we could come up with better designs for those ? )
And it depends on how much weight you put on minimizing polution.
Which is much easier and "cheaper" to do centrally - ir. cleaning any smoke and storing the CO" in the underground or in the sea.
If you combine electric power plants with district ( or remote heating ) via huge pipes
underground - instead of just throwing the hot cooling water away ;-) - as we have it here in Copenhagen (Denmark) you can reach very high degrees of efficiency - think they have the world record at present ( over 70 %, I seem to recall ).
and it's not quite clear what will produce the best end results - and will depend very much on how you weigh the pros and cons.
I would guess that el. power production itself is fairly efficient (50% or so), the transport is efficient (90+ %, I seem to recall - depending on distance and number of steps of course), but the charging is probably not very efficient at all ? (most batteries do tend to become rather warm when charging and more energy is lost in the charging devices ).
But if you "burn" the same fuel electrically instead in a modern fuel cell and then use the generated electric power in an electric motor you should be able to reach far higher degrees of fuel efficiency. Can't rem. how much right now, but think think it's in the order of 30-40 %, so roughly twice as good.
This could of course also be done in the power plant generators + maybe even using any generated steam from cooling water as well. And then it would be a whole new ball game.
Actually, battery EVs are so efficient, you can drive 1000 miles per month on the electric that it takes to run two refrigerators. The gas you don't buy pays for your solar system.
They should choke on these cars, they had the EV1 years ago, and big oil shot that down. Now they want the american people to cough up $40k for one of these! Screw them, and Big oil.
The tag price is under $40k. The battery is $10k. So the car is $30k. I do not understand why it would cost that much. It has no transmission, no internal combustion engine, no fuel injection.
It can switch between them as required - and recharge the battery while it's running on gas or even when its breaking. Of course the
gas consumption will be a lot higher when charging the batteries, but that will too a large extent be made up for the far higher efficiency of an eletric motor (90% or so) over an ICE (a mere 25 % on a good day ! ).
well you hit the golden nail on the head. It doesn't cost that much, they just want to charge that much to try to compensate for their parts and repair business losses, I've used electric motors in my business for 28 years and almost nothing goes wrong w/ them. That's why Big 3 doesn't want build them. People are starting to get informed thanks to forums like this. Our Government needs to get a grip. This kind of mafia type, Union, government corruption, is on the verge of creating an uprising.
Interesting - yes, have heard that they are very reliable, but not had any practical experience with them worth mentioning.
I see the problem for those companies - how are these poor people going to be able to make a decent living ? LOL
Well, this could be the start of a quantum leap with respect to transport and vehicles - they have better wake up now, if they want to be part of it. Win or disappear - as they have always preached to others ;-)
It's funny how these guys never seem to ask their customers what they want, isn't it ? Maybe they could learn a lot ?
They didn't really plan for very high oil prices with respect to improving fuel efficiency signific. Most Euro. and Jap. cars will have milages that are more than double those of most US cars (smaller enginges and smaller size, yes, but also far more efficient), since gas has been much more expensive (heavy taxed) here and there for decades (2-4 times !)
Listen, everybody has 2 cars in the drive. if one was a pure Ev 100 mile, that's good for 340 of the 365 days a year. Then gas would be so cheap you take fuel cars on trips. There is only one good reason for not building electric cars, that is that the Car companies REFUSE TO, because there's nothing on them that WE can't fix OURSELVES. Their combustion engine tech. is to complex, therefore we have to pay THEM for the repairs and labor, hence they keep on making money long after the sale
Precisely - well said. So now we know why they killed off the EV1 and bought a new promissing battery technology from a US company, never to be heard of again.
Hey I saw with my own eyes technology the far that was 50 in our present future in 1976, trust me, they are hiding everything they deem to be financially disadvantages. Phillips petroleum came to my school and demonstrated an anti gravity device. Funny how you never hear about that, or see the advances and advantages of that technology. How many of you ever saw that, not many I would wager as it seems that tech was berried along w/ many many others. I know I haven't seen it since then.
what they demonstrated was by use of remote control, a closed suite case was levitated off of a table flown around the room and returned to the table, I think it was a little more involved than maglev, they in fact told us that it was related to cyntrfegal force,dkh to spell tht. but it was radically advanced tech. when playing poker with the world and the pot consist of all the worlds power and control, you don't want people to know what your holding in your hand. super/hidden tech exist ;-)
I bet GM will try to make the Volt fail on purpose and then say "see, we told you so. We told you it isn't possible." I hope GM doesn't see the light of day in 2009. I say NO TO THE BAILOUT!!!
Ha, they did have a great electric car (the EV) that everyone loved, but was not allowed to buy, only to lease. Then they collected all of them from their unhappy clients for some strange reason - almost under threat -and scrapped them. How stupid is that ?
Going backwards into the future has always been the motto of GM ;-( How pathetic they are. Maybe it's not such a great loss after all, if /when they close down. There will be other car companies with fresh ideas and a will to move forward.
They will capter 11, and then they'll reorganize and be back. Those guys are so crying the blues, OH! were gonna die and so will the United States of America if you don't give us 25,000.000.000.00. They would say/lie absolutely anything to get their hands on/steal all that money from the tax payers. I'll say this for them, they recognize opportunity when they see it. Greed is soooooo good at that. Theres only so many cars to made and someone will make them here in the U.S., doesn't matter who.
Let them die - them have killed off so many other companies, and bought up new technologies to prevent them from being used by others and to hide them away - eg. some new super batteries.
What is going on in their heads ? Not much, it would seem.
Hah, well, actually I am - an electrical engineer even. Sorry to dissapoint you.
If you dare do your own research on this, you will soon realise that it's all true. They had an electric car, a winner that everyone, who leased it, loved and wanted to buy - but wasn't allowed to ! (orig. it was only made because come Calif. law demanded it), but the oil companies and the old fashioned managers in Detroit didn't want to try new ideas and killed it off - they even ruined all but 1 or 2 of them !
GM lied about the EV1, also, claiming to have spent $1 billion on it; but in reality, much of the money was spent lobbying against regulation and MPG standards. Study and learn.
So they will just come up with some other type of battery - there is lot of potential, especially if the demand is there and the price is right, lots of research going on.
I think cars like this will be much more affordable if people obama becomes president, giving governmental help to these guys to help make the cars of the future...
These stupid people do not deserve to be saved - other /new car companies will take over this market before long. They had a winner that everyone loved (EV1), and they blew it - probably because the lobby of the oil companies wanted it.
The answer to why 40 miles and not 300 is the type, size and quality of the batteries. The telsa a $100,000 sports car 248Hp. 0-60 in 3.9 secs with a 244 mile range. The volt is $40,000 with an on board gas generator and will give 40 mile range. They have different equipment.
The phoneix motor car with the altair nano batt looks good its a 4 DOOR SUV PICK-UP that will do 250 mile range and can charge in 10 mins.
Part of the reason Tesla's are so incredibly expensive is they are stick built custom made per order basis. If they were producing 50,000 of them per year, I think the price would be within reach of the average guy.
There are many EV's on the market today. If the majority of people had a small EV for going to the store and other "close to home" drives, that would save them gas and drive gas prices down because of lowering demand. It's just around the corner and the sooner the better. I'm tired of oil companies and gas. They are the complete problem with the economy today.
I completely agree with it, if every one send a email to CEO of GM Ford Mitsubishi Toyota and tell them that we aren`t going to buy any of their petrol cars, and we need The Electric Vehicle we`d see EV 2009, that`d be very good to make public more aware to the environmental issues.
Please be active, respect for all who understand our world.
Check out the Mitsubishi i-MiEV, and hope the government will let it into North America. I heard the US was going to ban because it would not hold up to being sideswiped by a hummer.
All you people need to open your eyes & see what the goverments all around the world are doing,feeding you rubbish.They have had the ability to make electric cars,with better technology than the 1 above for years,but everyone seems so blind to what is happening.The Oil business is a Multi Trillion pound business,why would the Goverments put the selfs out of pocket.Everyone watch the following & you will understand some of what I am talking about. Who Killed the Electric Car? DVD ~ Martin Sheen
All you people need to open your eyes & see what the goverments all around the world are doing,feeding you rubbish.They have had the ability to make electric cars,with better technology than the 1 above for years,but everyone seems so blind to what is happening.The Oil business is a Multi Trillion pound business,why would the Goverments put the selfs out of pocket.Everyone watch the following & you will understand some of what I am talking about. Who Killed the Electric Car? DVD ~ Martin Sheen
The car was invented by a South African and the prices will be about R200000 around $20000 and will be as cheap less that 1 Cent per KM 10 times cheaper than fuel used today
It truly amazes me that we can't even make a fully electric car that functions just as well as any gasoline car. We have the technology to go to the moon and we are about to send a manned mission to mars, yet we can't make a fully electric vehicle to end dependence on gasoline. In my opinion, they are making so much money with gasoline that they are purposely holding back from making a fully electric car. It just makes no sense.
and they still haven't taken out the combustion engine. even if they don't sell 1 car they still make their money through the oil giants they're just too good to be actors
what a bunch of liars oh they love to lie all the time they get their share from the gas companies and they get paid huge not to mass produce this again like the ev1 yeah yeah keep on believing coz you'll never have these cars whatever design and technology they'll have. just convert your car into a regular electric vehicle..
That's without a recharge. It has a gas tank that recharges the battery during driving past 40 miles so it's real range is like a normal car 300 miles plus without a trip to the gas station. Electric is a little bit of an overstatement for the Volt, when it still has a gas tank and engine.
When you buy a computer, do you say, naw, I'll wait a few more years for a better one to come along? No, you buy it, and then you swap out old parts for newer and better ones. If the batteries don't last that long, by the time you need to replace it, a better one will be out on the market. By the time it dies, you will most likely be looking at a newer car anyway. It would help if they did not start with pure crap in the beginning. Take a lesson from the Japanese. Make it small, cheep and good.
If you haven't seen the documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car", do it. It will open your eyes. GM smashed a line of electric cars already. Will they smash these too? The government is not going to allow tax incentives. They want to keep the oil industry alive. :(
i hope they don't smash this. plus tesla and zenn are making cars available for average people. and nissan are comming out with an electric car early next decade
The reason they yanked the EV1 was the inability to retain a charge. The battery technology wasn't there yet, as they didn't even have lithium ion batteries back when they tried the EV1...
uhhh, no they didn't. After a couple hundred recharges, they began to lose the capacity to hold their charge, which translates into consumers spending tons of money on batteries, and no real way to safely dispose of the used batteries.
That, coupled with the lack of convenient plug outlets, crippled the EV1 quickly.
This is not an electric car, even though you can plug it in, there is a three cylinder engine in it to charge the batteries, and thus, it is a hybrid.
I'm afraid that the power density (ampere hours/square foot) of available solar panel area isn't sufficient enough to provide long range power for an automobile at highway speeds.
My apologies, I meant the roof on your house. You sell the power during the day to the grid, and then charge your car at off peak rates at night, or have a battery pack at home to charge off of.
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The price of the Green Car is a SCAM!! They start at 26k to 31k. My 2009 Corolla cost 6k. Now if Gas cost $4-gal, in one year (at 12,000-miles per year) that would be $1,464. So it would take over 14 years i.e; 14 x $1,464 = $20,496,
(Plus the 6k I paid for my corolla). For a total of = $26,496. So an Electric car will TAKE 14 + Years (minis the cost of charging it) to match a Gas car like Corolla.
KEEP YOUR small GAS CAR!
robertquentincobb 8 months ago
how stupid you all sound after all this time is passed volt is selling like crazy and all the other makers are trying to catch up
jesse1779 1 year ago
40 miles - sorry but it's gotta be a joke. Thumbs down. I would never buy this car.
alfiskoxp 2 years ago
big oil is buying the next big oil the lithium and nickel mines
so they control the market on "all" electric Cars
emforty2 2 years ago
big oil owns the u.s. govt., so they make electrics too expensive for most people. if electrics take over, too many jobs will be lost. it will, but green jobs will replace them. why be afraid?
tenrazo215 2 years ago
No worries, the U.S. is backing the warranty. Government efficiency and professionalism will ensure great customer service. I hear it comes with a deed to your own bridge :)
vk2r1 2 years ago
they not done yet they spent the first bailout money and now asking for more. more and more and more.
emforty2 2 years ago
G.M. is finished! If they actually thought the Volt was the answer to their problems, they would have made it a priority over the New Camaro!
Instead the tax payer is now being told to finance more V8 gas guzzlers. Way to go Bobby Lutz!
f1nuts 2 years ago
who can afford a $45K chevy volt ?? the rich that doesnt care about $5 gallon gas ?
emforty2 3 years ago
theyd be better off renting out runners for rickshaws than trying to sell that over priced crap
WhoRonPaul 3 years ago
Buy an American car?
You've got to be kidding?
Hard times for the American car makers, but they've done it to themselves.
GMs SUCK DONKEY DICKS!!
urbanagain 3 years ago
no u
musashi1865 2 years ago
Target range 40 miles? Useless! Batteries are unreliable heavy and too expensive!!
The USN proved this in the seventies (at a fantastic research cost) when looking for motive power for their nuclear tipped torpedos........they eventually settled for a neat high performance i.c. engine......95HP from 12" x 9" swash plate central shaft engine. Batteries, fuel cells, compressed air all failed in comparison.
SCOTSDOC 3 years ago
Absolutely useless. Total waste of money. Might as well ride a god damn bicycle.
skate831 3 years ago
check "who killed the elecrtic car" and others ull find they r faster than gas guzzlers and better in other ways too. gm had an electric car,EV1
markjv 2 years ago
Taxpayer money is now financing GM gas-guzzlers for poor credit risks. GM is using part of the money for no-interest loans on foreign SAAB cars, and taking price reductions to finance purchasers of Big Iron that traps them into years of inefficient driving. The net result is to enrich Big Oil, and impoverish the rest of us.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
A less oafish administration would have put conditions on the cash handed to GM: no bailout without plug-in cars, and no money to finance gas-guzzlers. After all, it's our money, and GM is in no condition to bargain.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
The same folks who complain about "hidden taxes" that support Electric cars and hybrids have no qualms about our Treasury buying stock in GMAC, secured only by hordes of past bad loans on gas-guzzlers of declining value.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
Where are the so-called "conservative principles" that refused to regulate GM when it was failing to keep up with the competition? Now that GM is on life-support due to malfeasance and incompetence, these same folks now want to use our money to buy the debt of a wrecked corporation.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
Well, I would buy an electric car built by Toyota or Honda, but would pause when buying one from GM, Chrysler, or Ford. If the car makes the market the battery will be designed to give about 36,000 miles of service so it is covered under warranty. After that, the thing will begin to lose charge and the poor purchaser of the car will be driving a crappy gasoline-powered vehicle that costs so much they will have no choice but finish the remaining three years of payments.
Brettcomedyzone 3 years ago 2
Rick wagoner looks like the beggar he is, begging for dollars from the taxpayer.
liveoilfree 3 years ago 2
So what do you know about EVs or the VOLT? Only what you've been told by your masters at GM, right? It's YOU who should STFU, since you don't know SQUAT.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
Wow, did I touch a nerve? Time to break out the stress balls, dude.
Also, if the Volt does become the success that keeps GM from bankruptcy, much less shows up on time as promised, don't expect any sympathy from me...
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
GM has already stated that the VOLT won't be present in enough numbers to even be worth using for MPG calculations; and GM has stated that the VOLT will lose money for several years, even if it's ever issued. Would you like the references?? Why not study and learn before you say silly things??
liveoilfree 3 years ago
In case you haven't noticed, the plan calls for 10,000 units the first year, then a ramp up to 60,000 after that, and spread the tech to other cars.
Did GM kill your dog? No? Well, killing the EV1 may have been a bad business decision, but they don't need to be crucified over this.
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
What they do need to do is resume production of an Electric car. But they won't, and now, they don't have to.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
IF GM were truthful; but GM has still not come clean about the EV1, still lies about it.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
If GM is truthful, American citizens ought insist that this model be the only car they make at all their plants for the next 15 years to pay us back for any bailout. There is no need to update models (cost of retooling, design, etc)...there is only a need to keep people employed and end use of foreign oil for personal as well as commercial (Natural gas source) road transport.
appletonp 3 years ago
CNG is also a viable alternative to oil, and we have plenty of it here. Ironically, if you believe in fuel cells, why not also allow CNG? It's cheaper, operates at lower pressure, and existing tech.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
It's a good thing you're in no position of power. I guess you want to kill off the Camaro, Corvette and other cars that are actually fun to drive, and you give the finger to babies, curbstomp puppies, and club baby seals to make your lunch...
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
We're no against OTHER PEOPLE using gas cars!! All we want is for them to let the free market decide, offer an EV for sale on the free market, give people the choice. So if an EV is not right for GM loyalists, don't stop others from buying one. But GM has been lobbying and suing California to deny us a choice.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
Yeah, whatever, when the Camaro comes out, I'm getting one before the feds kill anything resembling fun from GM...
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
Did you people watch the documentary
"How they killed the electric car ?"
If not, I can really recommend it, if you want to get some idea about how the bosses of these huge corporations really think, and how the interests of the customers and society ( low price, good performance, high efficiency, high reliablity, low polution ) are certainly NOT what they have in mind foremost - if at all.
ElvenDane 3 years ago 3
do you get all your info from the movies? GM killed the ev1 because the battery technology at the time wasn't there. The real problem was the government getting involved in their business and forcing them to release technologies that didn't exist at the time. If you want to be upset with anybody, be upset with the gov't for not engaging in principles of free market capitalism.
lsvette 3 years ago
LOL! We're still driving Toyota RAV4-EV, more than 6 years after last sold; it's funny to hear this same canard, that the "battery is not there"!! Nobody complained about the EV1 range, that's a GM lie.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
We need hydrogen cars.
Ispintechno1 3 years ago
In the USA, 66% of electricity is generated by burning fossil fuels, mostly coal. Another 19% is generated by nuclear reactors. If we want electric cars which do not depend on fossil fuels then we will need nuclear reactors in every State. How does that grab you?
numbnuts234567 3 years ago
It's easier to get a high fuel efficiency if you burn the fuel centrally and easier to clean the smoke/store CO2. And you can combine it with district heating ( tubes with hot water or steam for heating or warming
water) in areas where this is nesc.
The electic motor is far more efficient than an ICE (3-4 times !), and the electricity can be made in all sorts of other ways - solar, wind, waves, underground heat. Storing the electricity (charge) efficiently is the major problem left.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
In a conventional car the energy from burning fuel is directly applied to pistons which turn a shaft. A power plant heats water, creates steam ,turns a turbine which generates electricity which is moved over wires and stored in a cars' batteries which then provide electricity to turn a shaft. In each of these many steps there is some inefficiency and the sum total is large. In fact, the more central the power plant is the more power is lost in transporting the electricity over the wires.
numbnuts234567 3 years ago
Yes, I do realise that - sorry, if I wasn't clear about that. However you can reach rel. good effieciencies in most of those steps, epecially if you combine it with other
energy production, using the hot water to
heat houses and bath water (indirectly like we have it here). And I have read that some ICEs have effciencies as embarrassingly low as 15 %. (maybe we could come up with better designs for those ? )
And it depends on how much weight you put on minimizing polution.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
Which is much easier and "cheaper" to do centrally - ir. cleaning any smoke and storing the CO" in the underground or in the sea.
If you combine electric power plants with district ( or remote heating ) via huge pipes
underground - instead of just throwing the hot cooling water away ;-) - as we have it here in Copenhagen (Denmark) you can reach very high degrees of efficiency - think they have the world record at present ( over 70 %, I seem to recall ).
These are big calculations ..
ElvenDane 3 years ago
and it's not quite clear what will produce the best end results - and will depend very much on how you weigh the pros and cons.
I would guess that el. power production itself is fairly efficient (50% or so), the transport is efficient (90+ %, I seem to recall - depending on distance and number of steps of course), but the charging is probably not very efficient at all ? (most batteries do tend to become rather warm when charging and more energy is lost in the charging devices ).
ElvenDane 3 years ago
But if you "burn" the same fuel electrically instead in a modern fuel cell and then use the generated electric power in an electric motor you should be able to reach far higher degrees of fuel efficiency. Can't rem. how much right now, but think think it's in the order of 30-40 %, so roughly twice as good.
This could of course also be done in the power plant generators + maybe even using any generated steam from cooling water as well. And then it would be a whole new ball game.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
Actually, battery EVs are so efficient, you can drive 1000 miles per month on the electric that it takes to run two refrigerators. The gas you don't buy pays for your solar system.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
They should choke on these cars, they had the EV1 years ago, and big oil shot that down. Now they want the american people to cough up $40k for one of these! Screw them, and Big oil.
34racer 3 years ago
GM will never release these cars, its all bullcrap... GM needs new CEO's and needs new management..
CressidaPush 3 years ago
The tag price is under $40k. The battery is $10k. So the car is $30k. I do not understand why it would cost that much. It has no transmission, no internal combustion engine, no fuel injection.
alienpatentoffice 3 years ago
it has an IC engine; its not just a 40 mile electric vehicle. The engine will recharge the batteries after 40 miles.
lsvette 3 years ago
It can switch between them as required - and recharge the battery while it's running on gas or even when its breaking. Of course the
gas consumption will be a lot higher when charging the batteries, but that will too a large extent be made up for the far higher efficiency of an eletric motor (90% or so) over an ICE (a mere 25 % on a good day ! ).
ElvenDane 3 years ago
well you hit the golden nail on the head. It doesn't cost that much, they just want to charge that much to try to compensate for their parts and repair business losses, I've used electric motors in my business for 28 years and almost nothing goes wrong w/ them. That's why Big 3 doesn't want build them. People are starting to get informed thanks to forums like this. Our Government needs to get a grip. This kind of mafia type, Union, government corruption, is on the verge of creating an uprising.
jvmalum 3 years ago
Interesting - yes, have heard that they are very reliable, but not had any practical experience with them worth mentioning.
I see the problem for those companies - how are these poor people going to be able to make a decent living ? LOL
Well, this could be the start of a quantum leap with respect to transport and vehicles - they have better wake up now, if they want to be part of it. Win or disappear - as they have always preached to others ;-)
ElvenDane 3 years ago
It's funny how these guys never seem to ask their customers what they want, isn't it ? Maybe they could learn a lot ?
They didn't really plan for very high oil prices with respect to improving fuel efficiency signific. Most Euro. and Jap. cars will have milages that are more than double those of most US cars (smaller enginges and smaller size, yes, but also far more efficient), since gas has been much more expensive (heavy taxed) here and there for decades (2-4 times !)
ElvenDane 3 years ago
Listen, everybody has 2 cars in the drive. if one was a pure Ev 100 mile, that's good for 340 of the 365 days a year. Then gas would be so cheap you take fuel cars on trips. There is only one good reason for not building electric cars, that is that the Car companies REFUSE TO, because there's nothing on them that WE can't fix OURSELVES. Their combustion engine tech. is to complex, therefore we have to pay THEM for the repairs and labor, hence they keep on making money long after the sale
jvmalum 3 years ago
Precisely - well said. So now we know why they killed off the EV1 and bought a new promissing battery technology from a US company, never to be heard of again.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
Hey I saw with my own eyes technology the far that was 50 in our present future in 1976, trust me, they are hiding everything they deem to be financially disadvantages. Phillips petroleum came to my school and demonstrated an anti gravity device. Funny how you never hear about that, or see the advances and advantages of that technology. How many of you ever saw that, not many I would wager as it seems that tech was berried along w/ many many others. I know I haven't seen it since then.
jvmalum 3 years ago
Ha, I wouldn't be surprised at all, if they do that - keep things out of the market that might be bad for or even ruin their main businesses.
Anti gravity device ? hmmmmmm
Maybe you are thiking about something like magnets hovering over superconductors ?
They are using a system like that for the latest very fast maglev trains ( one line opened in China recently ).
ElvenDane 3 years ago
what they demonstrated was by use of remote control, a closed suite case was levitated off of a table flown around the room and returned to the table, I think it was a little more involved than maglev, they in fact told us that it was related to cyntrfegal force,dkh to spell tht. but it was radically advanced tech. when playing poker with the world and the pot consist of all the worlds power and control, you don't want people to know what your holding in your hand. super/hidden tech exist ;-)
jvmalum 3 years ago
I bet GM will try to make the Volt fail on purpose and then say "see, we told you so. We told you it isn't possible." I hope GM doesn't see the light of day in 2009. I say NO TO THE BAILOUT!!!
whiskers78753 3 years ago
Ha, they did have a great electric car (the EV) that everyone loved, but was not allowed to buy, only to lease. Then they collected all of them from their unhappy clients for some strange reason - almost under threat -and scrapped them. How stupid is that ?
Going backwards into the future has always been the motto of GM ;-( How pathetic they are. Maybe it's not such a great loss after all, if /when they close down. There will be other car companies with fresh ideas and a will to move forward.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
NO BAILOUT for GM until is SELLS THE EV1 all-electric 140-mile-range EV.
Or revives the 1998 Precept, which was better than the volt.
STOP STALLING, STOP LYING!!
liveoilfree 3 years ago 4
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ed11561 3 years ago
They will capter 11, and then they'll reorganize and be back. Those guys are so crying the blues, OH! were gonna die and so will the United States of America if you don't give us 25,000.000.000.00. They would say/lie absolutely anything to get their hands on/steal all that money from the tax payers. I'll say this for them, they recognize opportunity when they see it. Greed is soooooo good at that. Theres only so many cars to made and someone will make them here in the U.S., doesn't matter who.
jvmalum 3 years ago
Exactly ;-)
Let them die - them have killed off so many other companies, and bought up new technologies to prevent them from being used by others and to hide them away - eg. some new super batteries.
What is going on in their heads ? Not much, it would seem.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
keep playing the conspericy BS. its not true, you're not an engineer
lsvette 3 years ago
Hah, well, actually I am - an electrical engineer even. Sorry to dissapoint you.
If you dare do your own research on this, you will soon realise that it's all true. They had an electric car, a winner that everyone, who leased it, loved and wanted to buy - but wasn't allowed to ! (orig. it was only made because come Calif. law demanded it), but the oil companies and the old fashioned managers in Detroit didn't want to try new ideas and killed it off - they even ruined all but 1 or 2 of them !
ElvenDane 3 years ago
If it's a hoax, then why is GM spending $750 million on a hoax?
Think before you troll.
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
GM lied about the EV1, also, claiming to have spent $1 billion on it; but in reality, much of the money was spent lobbying against regulation and MPG standards. Study and learn.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
You're lecturing me? Hilarious. Keep trolling every Volt related video, jackass, and keep turning off people like me from your cause.
Tell me where the next protest is so I can come crash it in a 2010 Mustang and smoke the tires for ya...
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
We bring light to the ignorant. The next protest is at Toyota HQ, at 190th and Grammercy Torrance, CA 90501 562-430-2495
liveoilfree 3 years ago
Jan. 5, 2009 at 11:45AM
liveoilfree 3 years ago
Who the hell keeps downvoting me? Eco-fascists are funny and sad at the same time.
It's a good thing I live in Florida, then...
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
Maybe because you're a spammer and don't say anything new or interesting.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
... so you're calling me a spammer, while trolling every single Volt-related video with inane ranting? And this makes sense how?
ferrarimanf355 3 years ago
SPAM = unwanted communication with no informational or value-added content.
What have you offered? You clearly know little or nothing about GM, EVs or the VOLT.
liveoilfree 3 years ago
Looks Like GM will be bankrupt in the next few months.. Guess it won't matter that this car is about to come out.
RLWSNOOK410 3 years ago
there is not enough lithium manufacturing capacity anywhere in the world to supply the demands.
even toyota using nimhs are having the same supply problem
we really need to build a bigger car !
a RAIL CAR ! [eletric train]
emforty2 3 years ago
So they will just come up with some other type of battery - there is lot of potential, especially if the demand is there and the price is right, lots of research going on.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
A Black woman doesn't have the brains to get the battery done. Have a German, Jew, or Italian do it!
antifatbastard 3 years ago
Neither do you you piece of shit.
Anothercoilgun 3 years ago
BS !
ElvenDane 3 years ago
I think cars like this will be much more affordable if people obama becomes president, giving governmental help to these guys to help make the cars of the future...
ogophanie 3 years ago
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ed11561 3 years ago
Why the EV1 in 1995 had 120 miles range but now Volt has only 40 miles in 2010???
Why GM is ling again,STOP THE LOBBY FOR THE PETROL !!!
GM had crushed the EV1 because their batery's wore two good!
kostea13 3 years ago 3
Didn't GM have the EV1 in the 90's which worked... and had waiting lists? why did they take it away and crush every single one???
RLWSNOOK410 3 years ago 3
You're right, you can search for "who killed the electric car" in youtube for the full story.
granec 3 years ago 3
Yes, incredible story !
These stupid people do not deserve to be saved - other /new car companies will take over this market before long. They had a winner that everyone loved (EV1), and they blew it - probably because the lobby of the oil companies wanted it.
ElvenDane 3 years ago
i was just goin to say that, GM is so corrupt its not even funny
kremerica15 3 years ago 4
The answer to why 40 miles and not 300 is the type, size and quality of the batteries. The telsa a $100,000 sports car 248Hp. 0-60 in 3.9 secs with a 244 mile range. The volt is $40,000 with an on board gas generator and will give 40 mile range. They have different equipment.
The phoneix motor car with the altair nano batt looks good its a 4 DOOR SUV PICK-UP that will do 250 mile range and can charge in 10 mins.
Anyway its all moving in the right direction.
Learn more on my channel.
Enviroman101 3 years ago
Part of the reason Tesla's are so incredibly expensive is they are stick built custom made per order basis. If they were producing 50,000 of them per year, I think the price would be within reach of the average guy.
jvmalum 3 years ago
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ed11561 3 years ago
There are many EV's on the market today. If the majority of people had a small EV for going to the store and other "close to home" drives, that would save them gas and drive gas prices down because of lowering demand. It's just around the corner and the sooner the better. I'm tired of oil companies and gas. They are the complete problem with the economy today.
ProbableHypothesis 3 years ago
I completely agree with it, if every one send a email to CEO of GM Ford Mitsubishi Toyota and tell them that we aren`t going to buy any of their petrol cars, and we need The Electric Vehicle we`d see EV 2009, that`d be very good to make public more aware to the environmental issues.
Please be active, respect for all who understand our world.
chris19770602 3 years ago
Check out the Mitsubishi i-MiEV, and hope the government will let it into North America. I heard the US was going to ban because it would not hold up to being sideswiped by a hummer.
r4nd0mn4me 3 years ago
So a sports car can go 200 miles on one charge but a sedan cant?
Inmate527 3 years ago 2
All you people need to open your eyes & see what the goverments all around the world are doing,feeding you rubbish.They have had the ability to make electric cars,with better technology than the 1 above for years,but everyone seems so blind to what is happening.The Oil business is a Multi Trillion pound business,why would the Goverments put the selfs out of pocket.Everyone watch the following & you will understand some of what I am talking about. Who Killed the Electric Car? DVD ~ Martin Sheen
ptrot88 3 years ago 2
All you people need to open your eyes & see what the goverments all around the world are doing,feeding you rubbish.They have had the ability to make electric cars,with better technology than the 1 above for years,but everyone seems so blind to what is happening.The Oil business is a Multi Trillion pound business,why would the Goverments put the selfs out of pocket.Everyone watch the following & you will understand some of what I am talking about. Who Killed the Electric Car? DVD ~ Martin Sheen
ptrot88 3 years ago 3
why does this one only move for 40miles but other varients go for 300miles on one charge
evoarts26 3 years ago 2
The car was invented by a South African and the prices will be about R200000 around $20000 and will be as cheap less that 1 Cent per KM 10 times cheaper than fuel used today
Pissinmyass777 3 years ago
It truly amazes me that we can't even make a fully electric car that functions just as well as any gasoline car. We have the technology to go to the moon and we are about to send a manned mission to mars, yet we can't make a fully electric vehicle to end dependence on gasoline. In my opinion, they are making so much money with gasoline that they are purposely holding back from making a fully electric car. It just makes no sense.
alwebste 3 years ago 4
What haven't the european car companies released this yet? Why does America always blame itself?
sanmarino11 3 years ago
oh cool it looks like a civic, so what happen to the nice concept that i was looking forward to buying that looked like camaro compact
CourteousCreep 3 years ago
and they still haven't taken out the combustion engine. even if they don't sell 1 car they still make their money through the oil giants they're just too good to be actors
gerryduka 3 years ago 2
American auto execs... PLEASE MARTHA!
Beadbud5000 3 years ago
what a bunch of liars oh they love to lie all the time they get their share from the gas companies and they get paid huge not to mass produce this again like the ev1 yeah yeah keep on believing coz you'll never have these cars whatever design and technology they'll have. just convert your car into a regular electric vehicle..
gerryduka 3 years ago 3
and the price is insane!!! you can get a tesla roadster that has better range for tens of thousands dollars less.
rtsoccerplayer 3 years ago 2
WTF?!?! AMBITIOUS TARGET OF 40 MILES ON A LITHIUM ION BATTERY?!?! how many batteries did they put in there? 1?
there are electric cars with only lead acid batteries with more range. they're just pretending that this is so hard to do...
rtsoccerplayer 3 years ago 3
That's without a recharge. It has a gas tank that recharges the battery during driving past 40 miles so it's real range is like a normal car 300 miles plus without a trip to the gas station. Electric is a little bit of an overstatement for the Volt, when it still has a gas tank and engine.
toolshed333 3 years ago
When you buy a computer, do you say, naw, I'll wait a few more years for a better one to come along? No, you buy it, and then you swap out old parts for newer and better ones. If the batteries don't last that long, by the time you need to replace it, a better one will be out on the market. By the time it dies, you will most likely be looking at a newer car anyway. It would help if they did not start with pure crap in the beginning. Take a lesson from the Japanese. Make it small, cheep and good.
r4nd0mn4me 3 years ago 2
If you haven't seen the documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car", do it. It will open your eyes. GM smashed a line of electric cars already. Will they smash these too? The government is not going to allow tax incentives. They want to keep the oil industry alive. :(
crazycootch 3 years ago 2
i hope they don't smash this. plus tesla and zenn are making cars available for average people. and nissan are comming out with an electric car early next decade
rtsoccerplayer 3 years ago 2
yeah ur right just convert ur car into an ev its cheaper
gerryduka 3 years ago
I admit it is looking better, but this company has yet to redeem itself for the EV1.
r4nd0mn4me 3 years ago 3
The reason they yanked the EV1 was the inability to retain a charge. The battery technology wasn't there yet, as they didn't even have lithium ion batteries back when they tried the EV1...
LordBLB 3 years ago
uhhh, yea they did, if you watch the movie "who killed the electric car", you'll find out that GM didn't even use the best batteries available.
you can watch the movie for free on youtube
rtsoccerplayer 3 years ago
"uhhh, yea they did"
uhhh, no they didn't. After a couple hundred recharges, they began to lose the capacity to hold their charge, which translates into consumers spending tons of money on batteries, and no real way to safely dispose of the used batteries.
That, coupled with the lack of convenient plug outlets, crippled the EV1 quickly.
LordBLB 3 years ago 2
gm and all car companies are all a big lie
gerryduka 3 years ago 4
The Volt is a joke, just like all other hybrids.
MaximumCat 3 years ago
This is not an electric car, even though you can plug it in, there is a three cylinder engine in it to charge the batteries, and thus, it is a hybrid.
poopcap99 3 years ago
This should have started during the Nixon years. Too bad. Technology should be centered on batteries improvement.
WinterHaven 3 years ago
this just sounds like a repeat ow of when they came out with the ev1. let see if this car actually will stay around.
penuttybutty1 3 years ago
Bah. This is crap. You want to see a real electric car? Two Words: Tesla Roadster. 8-)
MultimediaJay 3 years ago
8 characters...$100,000
AmericanImmaturity 3 years ago
Toronto, Canada based car company Zenn has an electric car that sells for about $14,000
Peacenik 3 years ago 2
Now all we need is to start building some nuclear power plants to provide enough clean electricity to charge these things.
TECHKLEC 3 years ago
Put some solar panels on your roof and you won't have to. search for liveoilfree here on YouTube.
r4nd0mn4me 3 years ago
I'm afraid that the power density (ampere hours/square foot) of available solar panel area isn't sufficient enough to provide long range power for an automobile at highway speeds.
TECHKLEC 3 years ago
My apologies, I meant the roof on your house. You sell the power during the day to the grid, and then charge your car at off peak rates at night, or have a battery pack at home to charge off of.
r4nd0mn4me 3 years ago
10/4.
TECHKLEC 3 years ago
All we need is alternative source of energy like wind, solar, thermal or hydrogen energy.
They`re a lot better than nuclear power plants and much more safe. Don`t forget that nuclear power plants are used to build nuclear weapon.
I could write and write... but that won`t do any good 4 us.
chris19770602 3 years ago
Only "breeder" reactors produce nuclear weapons fuel and they aren't the type used in today's modern plants.
TECHKLEC 3 years ago 2
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ed11561 3 years ago