Doctor Who Panel Q&A @ Comic Con 2009 (pt 3 of 4)

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

The Doctor refers to the Tartis as she. And my discussion is if the Doctor's treatment of Martha was fair or ethical. On what planet is fictional canon a valid responsrbto a question of ethics?

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

History when discussing a program setbin the past is not valid? Cornell adapted his novel for screen and presented Martha'sbaccording to his limited knowledge of the livs of people of color. It may be DW canon that no other position was available, but canon as flawed as this merits criticism. Believe Cornell can handle it,

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GrilVash Nov. 10, 1913 Battersea's black mayor congratulates the people of the town for overcoming racial prejudice. That event is also a very large part of The Times. There were activist of all complexions fighting for equality for women and minorities. For the DW producers to dimiss their writing as showing "the Times" is a disservice to those Brits. Lets leave it at: They wanted to show Martha's devotion to the Doctor, even in the face of his abandonment of her.

[GirlVash]

I love these people! haha.

[Bullock1992]

Thank you so much for putting these on! I'd love to go to one but they're so darn expensive these days! I laughed so hard when David got all green eyed at the fact that Billie beat him on Top Gear! :P Go Team Piper and Tennant! Woo! :D

[DEVILDAY666]

i heard that at 4:41 russal said dont say anythink!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kewlkat8208]

I love David Tennant's smile. He is so gorgeous!

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@kewlkat8208 You should go to BBC America and put in a vote for his new series to come to the US.

[saphiros8]

john barrowman is scottish >:(

idiot

John Scot Barrowman was born in Mount Vernon, GLASGOW (wikipedia)

[PrimusPrimal1995]

i know he is scottish. apparently, he knew my mum (APPARENTLY! cus my grandfather has said he worked with john barrowman's dad)

[saphiros8]

lol kl, my friends dad used to be best friends with david tennant, not sure if i belive him though :S

[PrimusPrimal1995]

lol

[sycoraxrock]

Yeah, but he and his family moved to Maryland when he was very young. He normally speaks with an American accent, although I think he has a British passport in addition to an American one (?)

But, please, keep calling people idiots. Especially over pedantic things like this.

[saphiros8]

yeah whatever

[1p3jn6cda]

If i was born in MT. vernon i'd want to move as well

:p

[GirlVash]

@saphiros8 hey no need for rudness. He was born in Scottland, however at a very young age his family moved to Chicago. (and he studied in California) So I think it would be fair to say he's multicultural at this point.

Either way we love him.

[GirlVash]

@GirlVash I mean John Barrowman, by the way (in case anyone's confused)

[stardetective29]

im so happy that they came to california!

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

So who saw the trailer! I heard that phrase that sent shivers of delight down my spine; Would love to see Captain Jack show up and say: "Well, he's blond...."

[Emgee78]

Love River Song! I'm glad she's returning.

[elsywelsy]

who did he say the voice in the trailer was at 5:51??

[TheOrangeDream]

No, don't bring back Rver Song. I hated her. :(

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Too bad, she's in the teaser for the 11th Doctor. And I love River Song, and River is Moffat ideal companion for the Doctor and Moffat is writing Doctor Who now. I kind of like the look of Amy Pond.. she could anybody from a Ten/Rose's daughter, to River's descentdant or Donna's descendant.....

[TheOrangeDream]

Oh, no is she? I just thought she was really irritating and was teasing the Doctor all the time. And that she knew his real name and everything... it just bothered me. I really like the look of Amy to! I think she and 11 will make a good team. :) Ten/Rose's daughter... now that's an interesting thought!

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

Hmm-- Donna always hit him and put him down. I liked Donna. I liked River. She was mature and independent. She reminded me a little bit, just a little bit of Romana. I try--and fail- not to compare companions; it's kind of mysoginist. No one compares Jack to Mickey at least I don't think anyone has a who was better Jack or Mickey kind of thing going.... Thee poor ladies get picked on according to how the Doctor treats them or feels about them.

[TheOrangeDream]

Yeah, your right about the comparing companions thing. Poor girls. ;P I really liked Donna though, she and Ten had a great chemistry together wich I think Martha did't have at all.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

I thought Martha and Ten had amazing chemistry until the Human Nature episode and she went from his Companion to his servant-- (That was 1913, she's bringing him tea, emptying his chamber pot- it wasn't a pleasant place to take that particular relationship and Neither of them, Martha or Ten, recovered from that experience, and I think it left a bad taste for the relationship for many fans.

[GirlVash]

@Bobsyermomsuncle I never really focused on that aspect. Yes she had to take alot of flack that she normaly wouldn't, but what I noticed more was that it was really an exageration of the relationship they already had: she had feelings for him, but she couldn't express them, and he didn't see her for who she was (because he was preocupied thinking about another woman). And at the end of Family of Blood they had a very sweet moment where he does adknowlage her being there for him.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash I guess everyone is different. (smile). I thought the very idea that he compelled her to become his servant was a betrayal, because her servitude was not necessary to their safety. It is not the same as Rose And Ten both pretending to be servants. As to his thank you: because that came After he begged Joan to come with him and Joan refused, I just saw the hug as a continuation of his manipulation of Martha's tender feelings for him.

[GirlVash]

@Bobsyermomsuncle I never saw him as manipulating her. ever. Of course he asked Joan to come with him. Probably part because he rememberd the feelings John Smith had for her, and part because he felt guilty that he'd inadvertantly hurt her. As for forcing Martha to serve him while he got to be a respected teacher, I really dont' think that's the case. It was the time period that forced her to do that (because she was black, and a woman) and he had no choice in the life the TARDIS wrote for him.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash We have to agree to disagree. If Joan had come there would have been no hug or thanks for Martha, just back to her flat. Time period is no excuse. In the novel, the companion pretends to be the Doctor's niece, and white men had dark skinned nieces then as they do now. Martha became a servant because the writers did not want to spoil the Doctor's love story by having HIM confront the racism of the time.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash I expect Sci-fi to show the "exception" in Nov of 1913 Battersea elected a black mayor; In 1599 we are told "race" doesn't matter. The Doctor exploits Martha-- hiding behind "the Times" and puts his companion in a vulnerable position, not to protect her, but himself or in this case the writers-- protect Doctor from confronting racism. Freema was brilliant showing Martha having to work from a dissadvantage, but I personally was done with Ten after that.

[GirlVash]

@Bobsyermomsuncle It really wasn't his doing though. As stated in the begining of the EPISODE (which, as good as the novel may be, it isn't what we are discusing) the Tardis wrote a life and backstory for The Doctor, as John Smith, but Martha was on her own as far as fiting into the time period. He had no control over how she chose to do that. And she was (as we see in The Shakespeare Code) very aware of the way she might be looked upon in the past. It was her choice to hide as a servant.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash I read the back story the writer provided for converting this story and the official blog. It wasn't Martha's choice; the Doctor specifically asked her and according to the official blog Martha response was "Was it anyone else she would told him to take a leap" but she felt putting up with three months of crap was nothing compared to what he went through. They made Martha a total enabler in this case, because she allows him the rope to neglect her safety and well being.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash And think about it, how classically mysogisnitic and "blame the victim" is that as an official statement -- Blaming the Female Tardis and Martha for the Doctor placing his companion in a vulnerable position. It is his choice to become human rather than confront the Family because he feared he might have to kill them. They planned the story before they landed on Earth, he had plenty to decide, No, you'll be too vulnerable and as Peri says: Why should Martha have to suffer?

[GirlVash]

@Bobsyermomsuncle first of all you keep referencing things that aren't cannon. So therefore, interesting, but not a valid argument. Second, she's trying to become a doctor. You don't think she's had to deal with less than plesant aspects of the human body? And who said the tardis has a gender? It is alive, but it's grown from a seed. and while plants technicaly do have males and females to say, "oh well it's because it's a girl plant" is not really what comes to mind.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash Are so you saying Martha is a Doctor and a Black woman, she has no cause or right to feel abused or abandoned by the situation the Doctor and the TARTIS forced her into? It is Canon she felt both. In 1913 white and black Britions recognized prejudice and as individuals stood against it. So the statement that Martha Had to become a servant and endure racism alone in 1913 because of The Times is erroneous. As an Individual the Doctor had the means to make her time bearable.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash And what things that are not canon. The story takes place in 1913, and is adopted from a novel, where the Doctor's has his companion masquerade as his niece. Therefore any events and social conditions of 1913 are perfectly valid. And it is perfectly valid to question and challenge Cornell's choice to change the role the companion chooses from niece to Maid. He choose niece for Bernice to protect her; choosing maidservant doesn't protect Martha, it makes her more vulnerable.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash Cornell who wrote both the novel and teleplay changes the Doctor's motivation, he becomes human to better understand Bernice's heartbreak; Bernice becomes his niece, so she can contact him but she is protected from negative post Edwardian morals. The DOCTOR would never leave his companion in a vulnerable position, but he does with Martha, tells her outright the TARDIS, therefore HE cannot help or protect her. She's on her own.

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

@GirlVash In the Human Nature novel John Smith realizes that he and Tim think differently. Obviously John Smith couldn't change things, but in 1913 if there was a Black mayor of Battersea, someone in England was standing up to class and race prejudice. Why not show the Doctor transforming into the kind of human who has that kind of ethical courage? The writers dropped the ball, but the actors were still brilliant with Smith as racist as Joan, and Martha "rising above it all".

[Bobsyermomsuncle]

David said it best; The Doctor was unforgiving (Because she wasn't Rose) towards Martha and insensitive towards her, and made her feel undesirable- witnessing Ten's treatment of Martha you either grow to dislike Ten -- I did-- or dislike Martha for exposing this unattractive feature of the Doctor-- which is what it seems more of the fans did.

[Sindre1]

WIKIPEDIA SPOILERS!

In late July 2009, British media published images of Alex Kingston filming an episode of Series 5 alongside new Doctor Matt Smith. On the same shooting location, a beach, wreckage of a spaceship was visible, which bears the marking Byzantium. This is an obvious reference to the crash of the Byzantium, and implies that this is indeed River Song.

[misscynthia17]

Is ut me or someone is screaming "bring back Ianto!!!!" at 1.00 or so ?

[SuddenlyIseepickmeup]

One person yells out "We want Ianto!" at 0:50

[kikibirdball]

its not you, i heard it aswell

[Rominiwi]

I love DT so much!

I know I'll cry badly on the End of time.

[imaof4]

I'm diggin' on the California accent :)!

[Merrythemad]

thanks again for taking the time to upload these

[AAARRRGGGHHHHHH]

"Euros you've worked with two of us. Who was better?

"You David." LOL

[AngelTheLonely]

Yay 1st comment,thank you so much for uploading this by the way do you have the end of time trailer???

[ifibreak]

no she doesn't. she's stated that in the previous parts.

[AngelTheLonely]

ok,sorry