a cell output is based on how fast you can rip hydrogen molecules from under water level i would think to make a verry large change will be hard to do with vacuum
but it can be done if you can see what i am saying but dont blowyour self up doing it
I think you are still right in your vacuum theory. I know you never miss anything, but there must have been something that diminished your results. your other efficiency reading was done on your vehicle after a long drive time.
Can I assume from this experiment that if a pressure valve was put on the chamber to prevent the gas from escaping until a set pressure was achieved that the production would be the same.
Would you still have the lag when you hit the gas as the pressured chamber would act as a staorage? The lag would be when first starting the chamber to biuld the pressure. Then maybe a bit to catch up after acceleration.
I suspect you would have no dissapointment if you'd have 2/3 less hose! you're losiing all your static pressure by despensing all your volume thru the hose. shorten it up & see how much better it does!
That's probably true. but when installed in a car, he will most likely have to use even more hose than now. So i assume that's why he does not worry about that while testing.
Aloha Zero,, I have come to the point of testing vacuum on my own HHO system and I have only one simple question. Why when hooking up the vacuum does the unit seem to produce 2 or 3 times as much gas? I watched your video three times over and I don't quite understand this phenonmenon. Thank You.. Noa
Very simple. A baloon filled with any gas will displace x amount of volume at atmospheric pressure. At two atmospheres (approx 33' under water) it will compress to displace 1/2x. Same number of gas molecules in the baloon.
The inverse is true under vacuum. At 1/2 atmosphere, the volume in the baloon will increase to 2x. Still the same number of molecules.
So, HHO produced under vacuum only looks like more but it really isn't.
The reason there is no production gain under vacuum is supported by the ideal gas law:
PV = nRT
Under vacuum bubbles are bigger in volume but still contain the same amount of HHO molecules. Your HHO yield and current dropped a bit under vacuum because the larger HHO bubbles decreased the surface area of the plates touching the liquid electrolyte. I highly commend and appreciated your objective testing.
You have to fool the O2 senser, or computer reads to lean,not enough fuel and dumps more in to the motor. you will still get improved mpg but much better with fooled O2 senser
I've been catching up on your vids. Too bad about the material integrity problem.
Regarding your fuel efficiency gain. That is a fairly new Toyota with top of the line computer system. Don't you think the computer system is defeating your efficiency by injecting extra (wasted) gasoline as the engine sensors gather data influenced by your HHO injection?
Probably. It also has variable valve timing and all sorts of other crap to keep us under thumb. I'll be anxious to get the EFIE installed and see if that helps.
Is more hydrogen being produced becos of the vacuum or is the hydrogen gas just expanding just as the balloon did (considering that no more gases filled the sealed balloon)?
Given that your amperage is a constant, say 1 amp ..... it can only split XYZ molecules. Why would that same 1 amp split more molecules under vacuum ? say XYZ plus 1000
Hi Zero. Great work. I tried to log in to your website and it didn't work. Therefore Id like to know what your final configuration is on the cell. From what i gathered your using one positive 5 Neutral and a ground 5 neutrals and a positive and there is .045 space between the plates? Is this correct? Did you find any increase with the venturi you put in the intake? Did PWM help and if so at what freq?
Correct on the config. My next build will be PnnnnnMnnnnnPnnnnnMnnnnnP. PWM is only good for throttling a cell.
I have a microprocessor design on the drawing board that that hunts for the natural resonant freq, locks on and tracks it in real time. 1st tests will be two plates only. Not sure how a series plate config will behave. I also have a hunch that parallel plates might resonate like a panpipe, each at it's own freq.
Seems like w just need more HHo at all times.You must currently be using car battery+alternator's full capacity?
How about:
-dual alternator + additional HHO generator?
-additional lithium-ion batteries with solar charging capabilities.Compact photovoltaics could be installed on the interior by the windows or even on the exterior.Would that provide sufficient power for extra gas production,especially for short trips?
I just think you have great potential and that you might save a lot of time by picking up the work where Meyer left it instead of starting from scratch.
I'm really looking forward to your tests with resonant frequencies.
First of all, keep up the good work. I've been following your progress with great interest and I know your going to get it right. But there is a few things I dont understand.
I know from watching your movies that you've done your research. Why dont you use the Meyer setup for your cell? I believe it's been proven that using pipes insted of plates is more efficient, and when taking a look at where Meyer's work stopped, he wasn't experimenting with vacuum.
The problem with Meyers design is it's pairs of parallel plates in solution. This means that either all tube capacitances must be precisely matched to each other at all times (virtually impossible) or that each tube must be pulsed independently of the others to remain perfectly resonant. A series cell overcomes this problem quite nicely but is more complex to build.
I have a design in the works with a multiprocessor controlled VCO that frequency modulates the center pulse freq slightly.
cont... Flat plates put much more surface area in solution and are easier to work with than tubes. The cells themselves are extremely dynamic. The capacitance (hence the tuned freq of the RLC) varies not only with temp & elyte concentration but also the amount of HHO that's stuck to the surface of the plates & between them. The moment you turn it on the center freq goes wacky. Pulse trains like the Lawton circuit try to catch the center freq as it flies by over and over. Good but not great.
The FM circuit I'm designing will follow the resonant freq in real time by comparing peak voltage to the freq. When modulated, if the cell center freq drifts upward, the cell voltage will rise on the high side of the FM sweep and the VCO will adjust upward to compensate. Opposite for the freq drifting lower. When resonant, the peak voltage will be equal at the high and low sides of the FM sweep. The sweep rate will probably be only somewhere around 10Hz with a modulation of 2-5%, variable.
For HHO, since pressure or vacuum has little effect on gas volume production, not really. But, I think it would be perfect to meter small amounts of distilled water mist into the intake for the flash steam it will produce in the cylinders during combustion and for high performance boosted engines.
You might want to have a look at some of the videos about Stanley Meyer. A lot of people all around the world are building electrolyzers which run on 12V batteries, input .5A (if I recall correctly) and, using resonant frequencies, are able to generate more power than they put in. I think Ravi's WFC runs at 300% of the Faraday limit.
I noticed in your videos that you used sodium bicarbonate in one test then switched to potassium hydroxide. what inconvenients did you find in using sodium bicarbonate? i know that potassium hydroxide is the best catalyst, but I find sodium bicarbonate much safer. So, what was the inconvenience?
Zero I do a test with an aluminum, flat stock rolled into a 1 inch tube, positioned over the bubbler,cell drawing 20-30 amps. nothing flamable ever makes it to the top 16". The hydrogen condenses very fast on the inside of the tube. Next test. pouring fog down the tube and lighting to see if the h makes it to the top. orrr collecting the condensation. Fun Hobby eh thanxs
did you take in acount that when water is under a low pressure it has vapor i ran the same test test on our cell and found we got more prodution however it was do to water vapor we got no more gas production from low cell pressure it just took more power keep up the good work cheers!
At the vacuum I was able to pull, for the time that it took to run this test, the amount of vapor released would be insignificant. If it were then the HHO production would actually be less than shown. Either way, not good.
Ill bet you, that most of your hydrogen espaces from you system. The molecule is so small and much much smaller than air that its get out everywhere in your connections. Your can just visually observe the chance in production.
i've seen in my own experements, that the Shape of the Plates makes a very large difference in hho production. i've also seen in my own experements that high voltage and low amperage seems to produce more hho as well. i've worked with 110v at 1 am using a varractor and a set of 4 diods to convert ac to dc, allowing the cell to act as the capacitor. much lower levels of electrolite though. thanks keep up the good work!
1200ml per minute comes to 0.042377 cubic feet per minute. If I had to guess, I'd say a typical engine takes in 200cfm of air when it's driven normally. It would be cool if anyone could show what ratio of HHO gas to ambiant air it would take to push a piston through a firing and exaust stroke.
Or possibly if you could gage the force put on a piston, then add HHO to the air that's being sucked into the combustion chamber to see how much HHO is required to get a noticable gain in power. How much HHO does it take to get 10% more push on the piston than with gasolene alone. I think that would give us a goal of HHO production. What do you think?
I think it has been shown that HHO will ignite at a ratio of over 100:1. There may not be much power at that mix but it will run very lean. The tests I ran on my Honda were inconclusive. The driving I ran it under was heavy stop and go with only a little hwy cruising. Others who have tested only hwy driving have reported better results than I.
Tnx for the compliment. More coming but donations have been pretty slow.
Hello Zero,and a warm hello to all your reader/ viewers. Thank you for sharing your work. I however are unable to do so due corporate reasons, i lead a team of researchers in to all type of alternative energy, conducting experiments from the very basic through to the full spec analysis of the product. I would like to say that if it was not for the free community(no commercial) people like your self! we would not see a practical, safe, and reliable product for many more years to come.
My team and i have pour more than a thousand combined hours reading everything we can off the web, some of it is very good then some is just rubbish. -- where do you think your ex friend max - Lol - got his knowledge from!Not everyone in the world has the ability to build there own system or would desire too. So there is a place for the commercial system as well. However, it should come with out the arrogance MaxxxLogan has shown within your responses section.
To the rest of the technically minded readers i would suggest you search for university thesis's......Any way Zero Good luck, great efforts -Ps ultra sound might be worth the look ***
I have seen the effects of ultrasound. It serves to combine small bubbles into large, dislodge from the plates and greatly reduces foaming at the surface. I don't think it has much of an impact on total production efficiency, though.
I seen someone take and put a vacume line on the bottom of the generator running it up past the top of the generator. Then without a bubbler and only a couple flashback valves, he started motor which sucked bubble up through and past the cells. He claimed produced more cause the water passing through was more vaporized with the bubbles. What you think? Keep up the good work! Mark
I have a salt water pool, he is spot on. The salt in the water when the DC current is applied produces chlorine. No salt you get hydrogen and oxygen. So what is so new here?
He won't give specifics, but it seems that it needs a closes loop self tuning resonant electronics circuit. Any electronics gurus out there????
Yes. Right here. The hints Maxxx has given are already known facts. There are points at which the cell will resonate electrically. These points drift, not only with temp, plate spacing and elyte concentration but also as soon as bubbles start to form. That's why everyone has so much trouble zeroing in on the resonant frequency! While tunable PWM's might be able to sweep through resonance, they can never lock on without closed loop circuitry. That's already where my experiments are headed.
So your conclusion about vacuum is? a no go or worth carrying forward with this line of experimentation. Four designs that I have watched being developed are all total saturation units, that don't use manifold vacuum. What about creating just a venturi effect to pull the gas out of the generator. Something along the lines of a perfume atomiser
You mean like this? watch?v=-vOir0iX8ag The only advantage of having negative pressure on the lines I think is if you have leaky lines. At least you won't lose HHO to the atmosphere. Other than that, even some backpressure wouldn't slow production.
Hello I love your videos and have Ben following them for a while have you tried adding a vibration to your cell plats in the sonic rang? Say like that of a sonic tooth brush, my thinking is that it will help keep the bubbles off the plats and allow more production.
Before it's to late, try to find the good in everything and spread some love around. I know plenty of starved people. It may be you are one of them. If you have something to share, I am sure ZeroFossilFuel will gladly accept you and respect what you have to say.
Have to disagree with you on this one too. There's nothing Maxxx has even hinted at that I don't already know. That blowhard can keep his "secrets" to himself. Where I am going with my experiments will dwarf anything he has done or will ever do.
Buckle your seatbelts. This is going to be one hell of a ride.
I can't believe you believe you will be able to bargain your knowledge of this subject (or anything else) to survive what is certainly coming. BTW - there is no other intelligent life out there, stop looking. Accept the fact that it's almost over for poor, poor planet Earth.
I disagree. This planet is just as much alive as a being as you and I. And just as you and I may get sick, break a bone, get a scrape or cut, it will heal itself, if we just give it half a chance. We have a stewardship assigned to us from God. I for one take that pretty seriously.
True we are passed the point of no return on a few fronts. To bad for planet Earth. Don't make it more miserable then it already is. It's only going to get worse. So much so that everyone who has a distaste to contribute or love their fellow man will be less then meaningless.
Excuse me MaxxxLogan: People like you running around the planet passing bad wind and being a complete ass is why we are in the shape we are in. Leave people alone that you don't agree with or you believe you need to hump to satisfy your ego.
ZeroFossilFuel thats great, I will be trampeled upon without mercy. LOL. Dude you are so funny. You are starting to get on my nerves, I know it's your vid and I'm just a visitor. You want the truth, here is the truth. Do you know what a SHED test is, with regard to vehicle emissions????? If not do some research. This whole water hydrogen is not the cheap solution it is claimed to be. Initial cost is very expensive. Why you ask???
You cant run on an unmodified engine with out great emissions problems, the oil used to lubricate the engine is also burnt and attaches it self to the water molecule and the steam that exists the engine is polluted. Once you have a setup working, condense the steam and have a uni lab test the water don't take my work for it.
The only sure way is coat every engine friction surface with a spray on teflon/ceramic coating. Use a bio oil and increase the oil pressure. Itcost me $2700, I did the work. First engine ceased. Total cost on the engine cost over $6000. Who is prepaired to do this so there is very little contamination of the water, I know the answer to this question. Screw the water supply then we are all in a world of shit.
If 50% of the worlds population vanished tomorrow, global warming would continue, at a slower rate but will be still rising. You cant reverse it. All we need to do is migrate, till the cycle ends, that is those that can. And if nothing happens I'll have something to sell or trade.
No, you will have nothing to sell or trade because those of us who do give a damn will beat you at your own game. In that day you will be trampled upon without mercy.
It's called risk management. As unfair as it seems, those that share will get nowhere in the end. The bottom line is that this planet can't support this much life, it takes one football field in land mass to feed one person per year. THINK ABOUT IT.... Also you can't reverse global warming, impossible!!!!
magnetizerenergizer budy i had a good read and watched a crap loads of videos from the site you recommended. One thing you need to understand is that the planet is overpopulated, and no matter what happens, in 15-20 years, there will not be enough food for 60% of the population. At the moment 25% people don't have access to regular food. So if there is a chance for me and my family and friends to be in the 40% of who has access to food and technology (something to trade), why should I share???
I'm sure you would all do the same if it come to protecting your family and friends first, if not there is something wrong with you.
I've PM'ed him he makes a lot of sense but no one is willing to listen it seems. There is some very interesting info he has. One funny one is that most of the people here are not doing anything new. Hmmmm, I asked what he means by it?????? Majority of these systems are the same as a commercial salt water chlorinator???
Would it not be a great thing if MaxxxLogan was telling the truth,& help pointing u in the right direction. To MaxxxLogan ZFF is not doing this for PROFIT its for the SURVIVAL OF THE PLANET & Generations to com.Check out this site aroadmap2extinction DOT COM. Any info, proof you have The PLANET would be GREATFULL.Hope u can do the right thing for our children & grand children.
Thanks for the kind words, but why should I share my designs with everyone. When 5 in 100 people will copy and sell the very same system. Guys Stan Mayer got it working did he not??
Hint: It needs to be a self tuning resonant circuit, and you will need to make some sensors and will need to use a microprocessor instead of the 555 timers alone. Quite complex electronics.
I know Maxxx. But the difference between you and I is when I finalize my design (and it will be soon), I will release it free of charge into the public domain, without any claim whatsoever. Anyone that wants to build it for personal use or profit, all the power to them. If your design really does work, why you would want to keep it a secret is beyond selfish. All you have done is delay the proliferation by a very small degree.
I think he's trying to make a space craft/teraformer or self sustaining robot. Just curious what is the precipitate you get when you run the watter through a filter? Um don't you get noxious gases when you burn metal (1 car x 1Billion people). Not a critic I'd like to know. And the residue on the core?
I know this is leading to the best solutions but. Coal+heat+iron(hopefully recycled)-->steel+h20+(recycled electricty)-->car energy+burned metal+possible precipitate+core residue
There is a reason the crust separates water from the earth's core. I think it is sulfuric acid and ammonia pretty much where Venus is now. Venus must have been run by power hungry lizards or dinosaurs . I hope we figure out plants are the return cycle soon..........
My car runs just like Stand Meyers car does, just water, no additives. Don't ask me to post my experiments, as I have no intention too ever.
Zero, think outside the square. Its a molecular issue you need to overcome. A hint, you need the cell to run at 15+ psi. Safety first, run many pressure relief devices as a failsafe. And for gods sake people buy real hydrogen flash arrestors, they are only $180.
Yes. I suspect if he runs his car on anything other than gasoline it's that very same hot air. Seems to have an abundance of that free energy to spare.
Yes, they say they want to save humanity so will not post anything, they say many will copy. .. What a load of crap! If they are interested in humanity they will post it. It will be dated etc etc; that is, if they have anything at all to post that is worthwhile. At present, they appear to be charletons.
Great experiments, no beef there. But why don't you guys try using some of Nikola Tesla's fundamental laws and apply them, you would be amazed. You may ask what those laws are, well you have the knowledge base at your fingertips. Google it. Sorry to be an ass but it took me just over two years to figure it out.
And who says we're NOT involved with testing Tesla inspired devices? I'm just one guy. I can pursue only just so many research tracks without proper funding or staffing.
Why would you want to run the cell in vacuum, that is supper dangerous, don't mix explosive gases and vacuum?? Positive pressure is much, much safer when implemented correctly. Making these cells with lexen and glass jars and the like is suicidal, even little blow ups can cause serious injury. Just so you can see the reaction?!?!?! This is my first beef with all this stuff. More to come... : )
Hey Z Found a site that may be usefull to produce electricity with thermoelectric modules.They have many applications, one of them illiminating altenators on big riggs,which use 72 Hi-Z 14 modules on exhaust,gives them over 1 KLW,inturn saving 3 to 5 hpw at the drive shaft, saving them fuel.May be worth a look instead of adding extra alt. Hi-Z Technologies Dot COM.Keep Up The GREAT WORK.
Great work Zero. I was hoping for vacume to be the holy grail too.A question to anyone who knows. The difference bettween 304 and 316 Stainless steel??Is hydrogen production the same? Only more maintenance? At my supplier the higher quality steel, costs over a third more.
Zero - A car engine displacing 1.5 liters turning 2000 rpm will inhale roughly 1500 liters of air/fuel mix per minute. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but I wonder if we're not thinking backwards on the deal. If you ignite HHO in a closed container, it implodes. Sholud we think about making a positive displacement engine that runs on vacuum?
It IMplodes only of it's a perfect ratio mix of 33.33%/66.67%. Anything off this perfect mix ratio EXplodes. Filling a water bottle and letting a bit of air in demonstrates this easily. Hydrogen will also burn extremely lean, over 100:1. So now what do your numbers look like?
Lessee... 1500 liters of air/fuel and 1/100 has to be H, air is (about) 80% nitrogen + 20% oxygen, does that mean you'd need 46 volumes of air for 1 volume of HHO? If so, does that mean you'd need 32 liters of HHO per min to supply a 1.5 liter motor turning @ 2000 RPM? Can you make a brief chemistry vid for those of us a little behind the 8-ball? Thanks!
so - with the current efficiency of 4.56 ml/min/watt, that gives us 219.298 watts per liter, and if we need 32 liters per minute, we'd need 7017 watts (about 7KW) to produce the gas. With one horseposer = 746 watts (a rough figure is 1 horse per 1KW generator size), you'd need only 7 of the engine's available horsepower to make the gas. An car's AC pump draws more power than that! Please don't give up!
Have you considered using peltier thermoelectrics, you could easily position them onto the exhaust to use the waste heat to create enough current to run another hho generator and a brushless vacuum pump this could improve the engines efficiency remove the extra load placed on the alternator to give an increased mpg.... out of interest have you noticed an mpg increase since fitting you hho system?
thermoelectrics work effeciently to heat and cool when powered but not so much to create electricity from a heat source.
And no, my MPG has not increased, even at 1.5 LPM. There's still more alternator load on the engine from the amps being drawn than is being returned by the HHO created.
It is my opinion so far that brute force cells are of little benefit unless being powered exclusively from recovered waste energy.
you seem to be the master at making the gens and doing the experiments but i was wondering does light effect the rate of production because the power tube was in complete dark and i made a similar one but with a clear jar and mine did not produce not even half of the gas also i made one out of razor blades and it seems to work but not as good as expected any advice?
Razor blades, eh? I have seen others try to produce more gas from plates with sharp edges because they observed more gas at the edges. While this may be true, it appears to be at the expense of gas being produced across the plate surfaces. I've been buffing my plates edges round ever since.
I think it's an illusion, just like vacuum was an illusion for me. But that didn't stop me from testing it to be sure. Now I'm sure. If you believe you can make a cell produce more with sharp edges you should pursue it to the fullest.
I was wondering , when hydrogen is used as a fuel does it burn hotter than gasoline? If it does then will it damage the pistons, valves or other internal parts?
It does burn hotter, but it also burns much faster meaning the heat does not have time to transfer to the cylinder walls. Engines running pore HHO actually run cooler than gasoline.
Depends on the overall surface area of the plates in solution. On my cell (312 sq-in total) I shoot for 10 amps cold, 20 amps hot. More gas requires more cells, same target amps per cell. Therefore 5 cells should draw 50 amps cold 100 amps hot. Way beyond the capacity of a standard alternator. Here you'll need a 2nd alternator or extra heavy duty replacement for your existing one.
Zero, how do you calculate total sq-in area? Is it by each plate area, or cell area? Then is it by total area or by what part is in solution? I hope I did not miss this in one of your earlier videos. Thanks and keep up the good work.
It's total ACTIVE surface area in solution, that surface ares which creates the gaps in between the plates.
Example: 5 plates measuring 2" x 2" each configured +n-n+. Each plate exposes both sides to another plate (8") except the 2 outside +plates which expose ony one side to another plate. Total area = 32sq-in, not 40.
What kind of Adhesive did you use against the plates and the lexan? I tried Super Glue Marine Epoxy and in one week my 13 plate cell fell apart when I cranked it up to 25 to 30 amps. Is the Marine Tex mentioned on the other video comments best or you recommenend a better one.
I used 3M White Eurathane Marine adhesive. Found it at Home Depot. Goop brand marine adhesive is also good. Be sure to let it cure thoroughly, 3 or more days, before placing in service.
C'mon Mr ZERO. I have been waiting anxiously for a week now for #60. We have all been waiting for a week for #60. We all want #60 NOW.! It is all just getting real interesting.
Holy cow; 6*F is about -14.4*C. That is Polar Bears Paradise! I am in Melbourne (Australia), in the grips of summer heat. Today we are going to get about 37*C, or about 99*F in your language. Have a look on youtube at the Honda FCX & see what you can glean. An article in the local paper today states Honda are keen to sell the car here, within 2 years if poss. I think Volkswagon have a couple of cars in devlopment, one called the Samba. All fuel cell tech.
Now you know why I'd like to convert my insulated shed to a heated lab. But first I need a NEW shed to store my things, then materials to complete and outfit the lab, not to mention the time, and of course the money.
I want to start making some HHO in my spare time in Iowa. Cold here. I burn wood in the shop. I'm going to wait till I don't have to burn next to my work. Is that ignorant of me to think that I would be in danger? Big two car garage. I should add that I will be the first to make tons of the stuff! But seriously?
Unless you plan to produce hundreds of cubic feet of HHO per minute and vent it into the garage, or your wood burning stove is an open pit with sparks flying directly beside your work area, I don't see a problem with that at all. H2 disperses to noncompustable proportions VERY quickly. The real danger is sparks inside your cells from poor electrical connections.
Actually, GM Sequal looks ok, but it's U.K. counterpart, the HY-Wire, built by Vauxhall, looks better. Daimler Chrysler effort looks good too, but they seem to be attempting to "add too much value", in an attempt to justify high pricing when in fact, they should be able to substantially reduce prices of such cars.
Anything brought to you by the automotive industry is bound to be nothing more than the illusion of conservation, and make you pay more for the product, AND not before their oil barron friends can double the price of crude.
Or they want to bring you Hydrogen in such a way that they can make you pay for them to convert it from water using free solar power.
Yes, but it seems Volkswagen are keen to reclaim the position once held as "the peoples' car"and they seem keen to do this with cars from their "UP" series. Thinking is that if they can make them truly cheap to run, and green, they will reclaim this crown. Samba is supposed to have 12 Li Ion batteries (packs?) and Electric motor and HHO generation. We will see.@#$%-----
Hi Zero! Great job, I hav been thinking, what if you let the pump run, while cell is running. Please try to disconnect the power and se if it still produces, og if it just goes dead....
great job. Vacuum only changes the boiling point of water. for every lb of pressure the boiling point is incressed 2deg C . At 24 inches of vac you are boiling the water (cold). Maybe a storeage tank with a spring loaded bladder is the answer. While the vac is high, it pulls the bladder back and when you step on it you lose vac causeing the bladder to push hho into the intake. You would need a pod the size of a brake booster. Use a brake booster .
another question i had was that of safety. now then, if there was a way to have a catalytic converter of sorts to absorb the oxygen and instead intake more oxygen througn the air intake. the only problem with this is the fact that we would be using oxygen from the atmosphere. this been said, it would solve the problem of having a potential bomb under your car and possibly remove the need for a bubbler or a flashback arrestor.
also, i was thinking that this reaction may not occur if the electricity was constant and not pulsed. the reaction may not have a chance. i am currently planing on using lithium rather than sodium, but the effect should be the same.
no, all im saying is that after you add electrolyte, will you ever need to add more, in a perfect system that is. i would think not because the KOH for example would split into K and OH then the K would steal an OH from an H2O creating H and KOH starting the process all over again
Theoretically, the bubbler is supposed to condense any KOH that escapes the cell to be recycled. The electrolyte itself is not consumed by the process of electrolysis.
ok, so then your bubbler and your reaction chamber would have to be linked so that your electrolyte would, for sure, winde back up in the reaction chamber
with your experiments, do you ever have to add more electrolyte? or does the sodium, after split, react with the water and turn back into sodium hydroxide. this reaction also produces hydrogen aswell, so i fone could keep this circle going then you would have the bonus of not having to add electrolyte and added hydrogen.
first off, i would like to thank you for what a wonderful thing you are doing. i have done some of my own experiments and research, mainly research though. one thing that i noticed is that the most commonly used electrolyte besides salt is sodium, potassium, and lithium hydroxide.
Those "500 ml" water bottles are actually 530 ml. I measured one myself with a measuring cup and a funnel as well as a pharmacy's measuring spoon. You are actually getting better results than you think! Very cool huh? Keep up the great work. I've learned so much from your work and look forward to seeing many more of your videos in the future. Thank you.
Actually, the ones I use are 520. When I push the bottom out to make it convex it goes to 530. But, my water line mark is at precisely 500ml leaving 30ml trapped air at the top for the tube in the center so it doesn't take in any water.
One of Stan Meyers patents uses injection of cooled exhuast gases into the HHO for stabilization, you could possibly run a line from the exhuast manifold and cool it with a heat exchanger in front of the radiator to your cell to gain the required pressure.
Correct. I could also just pull it from further back in the exhaust with the cell under vacuum with a 3/8" solid fuel line. By the time it gets to the front it would be cool enough to draw into the cell. All refinements for later.
During the winter months I think it might be cool enough. The exhuast temp on your honda will be near 1100F at the manifold at highway speeds. You will have to probably need to tap the exhuast system behind the muffler then it will most likely be over 300F.
With the cell under pressure you would actually be able to introduce the needed HHO during acceleration by using the gas that is under pressure in the cell by releasing the pressure and feeding it to the motor. As the cell would need to charge up again you may be able to have a second cell until the first cell pressurizes again. Can you comment?
Yes, I understand your concern and think that it's valid. I was also thinking that myself. As it stands, what you have now is a safe setup. Thanks for your answer. Keep it up. The things I learn from following your progress will help me when financially, I am ready to go forward with my own HHO cell. ZFF AKA "Pioneer ala opensource"
have you ever tried other kinds of electrolytes like a oxidizer to see what would happen like potassium permaganet or use a flyback transformer from a tv to get the voltage to 20k volts if i had not almost cut off my thumb on a another project i would be doing it myself
Hello, Keep up the good work. Originally your concern was to supply the motor with more HHO when vacuum dropped. With no change in gas production under vacuum as you have proved, you say that the same would be true with the cell under pressure.
Yes. The difference would be that bubbles within the cell would be smaller under pressure instead of bigger under vacuum as they were in this experiment. This may actually help keep plates in greater contact with the water to produce more HHO once it's allowed to expand at atmospheric pressure. Too bad my test container won't hold back some pressure or I'd test that theory right now!
By applying a vaccum on your HHO cell, you'll only pump out the air that's in the cell at the time. Once it's gone,no matter how long the vaccum pump runs, you won't get any more out. May I suggest that you install a one way valve on top of your cell, there by permitting air into the cell under a vaccum which in turn would permit the vaccum to draw more HHO into the intake of your car. Keep up the great work that your doing.
Maybe I am not missing something here but it looks to me that you are not going to fill the hhometer any faster than the pump can pump it into the hhometer. So how are you going to get an accurate measurement? Correct me if I am wrong.
a cell output is based on how fast you can rip hydrogen molecules from under water level i would think to make a verry large change will be hard to do with vacuum
but it can be done if you can see what i am saying but dont blowyour self up doing it
jcb570 1 year ago
you should invent space age bongs
jjdiggincrates 1 year ago
You are saying that water boils cold.
So... That was what S. Meyer did on his cells and worked 4 him.
He boiled water cold at the same time he pulsed it with Tesla impulse technology.
Bang.
I saw you applying a vacuum pump after the cell and after the bubbler and i can't understand how will that increase hho output rate.
Inside a "ballon" you must consider that water doesn't always boil at 100º C.
Correct me if i'm wrong.
Tk u.
altinojpn 2 years ago
I think you are still right in your vacuum theory. I know you never miss anything, but there must have been something that diminished your results. your other efficiency reading was done on your vehicle after a long drive time.
sodapop503 2 years ago
its danger but does was something failed explosion or sumthing?
NewElita6 2 years ago
Coherent English please?
ZeroFossilFuel 2 years ago 2
huh?
sodapop503 2 years ago
Can I assume from this experiment that if a pressure valve was put on the chamber to prevent the gas from escaping until a set pressure was achieved that the production would be the same.
Would you still have the lag when you hit the gas as the pressured chamber would act as a staorage? The lag would be when first starting the chamber to biuld the pressure. Then maybe a bit to catch up after acceleration.
Stormrunner0002 3 years ago
Correct on all points.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
I suspect you would have no dissapointment if you'd have 2/3 less hose! you're losiing all your static pressure by despensing all your volume thru the hose. shorten it up & see how much better it does!
audiegates 3 years ago
That's probably true. but when installed in a car, he will most likely have to use even more hose than now. So i assume that's why he does not worry about that while testing.
sodapop503 2 years ago
Aloha Zero,, I have come to the point of testing vacuum on my own HHO system and I have only one simple question. Why when hooking up the vacuum does the unit seem to produce 2 or 3 times as much gas? I watched your video three times over and I don't quite understand this phenonmenon. Thank You.. Noa
noaliddle 3 years ago
Very simple. A baloon filled with any gas will displace x amount of volume at atmospheric pressure. At two atmospheres (approx 33' under water) it will compress to displace 1/2x. Same number of gas molecules in the baloon.
The inverse is true under vacuum. At 1/2 atmosphere, the volume in the baloon will increase to 2x. Still the same number of molecules.
So, HHO produced under vacuum only looks like more but it really isn't.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
The reason there is no production gain under vacuum is supported by the ideal gas law:
PV = nRT
Under vacuum bubbles are bigger in volume but still contain the same amount of HHO molecules. Your HHO yield and current dropped a bit under vacuum because the larger HHO bubbles decreased the surface area of the plates touching the liquid electrolyte. I highly commend and appreciated your objective testing.
vison2create 3 years ago
Absolutely correct. But people needed to see it to believe it. Even I.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
You have to fool the O2 senser, or computer reads to lean,not enough fuel and dumps more in to the motor. you will still get improved mpg but much better with fooled O2 senser
mrcarrsz 3 years ago
Hey Zero,
I've been catching up on your vids. Too bad about the material integrity problem.
Regarding your fuel efficiency gain. That is a fairly new Toyota with top of the line computer system. Don't you think the computer system is defeating your efficiency by injecting extra (wasted) gasoline as the engine sensors gather data influenced by your HHO injection?
k3nd00d 3 years ago
Probably. It also has variable valve timing and all sorts of other crap to keep us under thumb. I'll be anxious to get the EFIE installed and see if that helps.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
why was that disapointing?
420bmxer 3 years ago
any chance we can replicate stan meyers cell? to power a car>?
whoasurf 3 years ago
cont :
Is more hydrogen being produced becos of the vacuum or is the hydrogen gas just expanding just as the balloon did (considering that no more gases filled the sealed balloon)?
Given that your amperage is a constant, say 1 amp ..... it can only split XYZ molecules. Why would that same 1 amp split more molecules under vacuum ? say XYZ plus 1000
amen2233 3 years ago
Hasn't electrolysis been around since the 1800's?
particle409 3 years ago
Hi Zero. Great work. I tried to log in to your website and it didn't work. Therefore Id like to know what your final configuration is on the cell. From what i gathered your using one positive 5 Neutral and a ground 5 neutrals and a positive and there is .045 space between the plates? Is this correct? Did you find any increase with the venturi you put in the intake? Did PWM help and if so at what freq?
Thanks
Stan
stanmcdonald 3 years ago
Correct on the config. My next build will be PnnnnnMnnnnnPnnnnnMnnnnnP. PWM is only good for throttling a cell.
I have a microprocessor design on the drawing board that that hunts for the natural resonant freq, locks on and tracks it in real time. 1st tests will be two plates only. Not sure how a series plate config will behave. I also have a hunch that parallel plates might resonate like a panpipe, each at it's own freq.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
Seems like w just need more HHo at all times.You must currently be using car battery+alternator's full capacity?
How about:
-dual alternator + additional HHO generator?
-additional lithium-ion batteries with solar charging capabilities.Compact photovoltaics could be installed on the interior by the windows or even on the exterior.Would that provide sufficient power for extra gas production,especially for short trips?
tgamirov 3 years ago
All very good ideas.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
I just think you have great potential and that you might save a lot of time by picking up the work where Meyer left it instead of starting from scratch.
I'm really looking forward to your tests with resonant frequencies.
Thank you for your efforts.
reneheb 3 years ago
Hi zff.
First of all, keep up the good work. I've been following your progress with great interest and I know your going to get it right. But there is a few things I dont understand.
I know from watching your movies that you've done your research. Why dont you use the Meyer setup for your cell? I believe it's been proven that using pipes insted of plates is more efficient, and when taking a look at where Meyer's work stopped, he wasn't experimenting with vacuum.
reneheb 3 years ago
The problem with Meyers design is it's pairs of parallel plates in solution. This means that either all tube capacitances must be precisely matched to each other at all times (virtually impossible) or that each tube must be pulsed independently of the others to remain perfectly resonant. A series cell overcomes this problem quite nicely but is more complex to build.
I have a design in the works with a multiprocessor controlled VCO that frequency modulates the center pulse freq slightly.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
cont... Flat plates put much more surface area in solution and are easier to work with than tubes. The cells themselves are extremely dynamic. The capacitance (hence the tuned freq of the RLC) varies not only with temp & elyte concentration but also the amount of HHO that's stuck to the surface of the plates & between them. The moment you turn it on the center freq goes wacky. Pulse trains like the Lawton circuit try to catch the center freq as it flies by over and over. Good but not great.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
The FM circuit I'm designing will follow the resonant freq in real time by comparing peak voltage to the freq. When modulated, if the cell center freq drifts upward, the cell voltage will rise on the high side of the FM sweep and the VCO will adjust upward to compensate. Opposite for the freq drifting lower. When resonant, the peak voltage will be equal at the high and low sides of the FM sweep. The sweep rate will probably be only somewhere around 10Hz with a modulation of 2-5%, variable.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
Any progress with this FM circuit? Im really interested to see if you can get this working. It would be an amazing tool to have.
CyrussTheVirus 3 years ago
I know you're all anxious. I am too but I'm still gathering parts. One step at a time.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
in your calculation, why is it that you are subracting the leak from your totals, instead of adding it?
jesslessthemess 3 years ago
Have you found the venturi you built to be helpful? I never did see anything else about it in your videos.
EasyTBear 3 years ago
For HHO, since pressure or vacuum has little effect on gas volume production, not really. But, I think it would be perfect to meter small amounts of distilled water mist into the intake for the flash steam it will produce in the cylinders during combustion and for high performance boosted engines.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
You might want to have a look at some of the videos about Stanley Meyer. A lot of people all around the world are building electrolyzers which run on 12V batteries, input .5A (if I recall correctly) and, using resonant frequencies, are able to generate more power than they put in. I think Ravi's WFC runs at 300% of the Faraday limit.
renderrob 3 years ago
I noticed in your videos that you used sodium bicarbonate in one test then switched to potassium hydroxide. what inconvenients did you find in using sodium bicarbonate? i know that potassium hydroxide is the best catalyst, but I find sodium bicarbonate much safer. So, what was the inconvenience?
fernandomsil 3 years ago
Carbon Monoxide is a prevalent byproduct when using sodium bicarb.
ZeroFossilFuel 3 years ago
Zero I do a test with an aluminum, flat stock rolled into a 1 inch tube, positioned over the bubbler,cell drawing 20-30 amps. nothing flamable ever makes it to the top 16". The hydrogen condenses very fast on the inside of the tube. Next test. pouring fog down the tube and lighting to see if the h makes it to the top. orrr collecting the condensation. Fun Hobby eh thanxs
glen196969 4 years ago
did you take in acount that when water is under a low pressure it has vapor i ran the same test test on our cell and found we got more prodution however it was do to water vapor we got no more gas production from low cell pressure it just took more power keep up the good work cheers!
aflacduky 4 years ago
At the vacuum I was able to pull, for the time that it took to run this test, the amount of vapor released would be insignificant. If it were then the HHO production would actually be less than shown. Either way, not good.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
we found one good thing about running in the low pressure on our cells it helped keep the cell cool but we didnt do any more study on it
aflacduky 4 years ago
vacuum does work....
im running much lower...
Ill bet you, that most of your hydrogen espaces from you system. The molecule is so small and much much smaller than air that its get out everywhere in your connections. Your can just visually observe the chance in production.
christiandusk 4 years ago
i've seen in my own experements, that the Shape of the Plates makes a very large difference in hho production. i've also seen in my own experements that high voltage and low amperage seems to produce more hho as well. i've worked with 110v at 1 am using a varractor and a set of 4 diods to convert ac to dc, allowing the cell to act as the capacitor. much lower levels of electrolite though. thanks keep up the good work!
danratsnapnames 4 years ago
1200ml per minute comes to 0.042377 cubic feet per minute. If I had to guess, I'd say a typical engine takes in 200cfm of air when it's driven normally. It would be cool if anyone could show what ratio of HHO gas to ambiant air it would take to push a piston through a firing and exaust stroke.
jboritzki 4 years ago
your close but my work truck takes 665cfm of air to run at 50% load
aflacduky 4 years ago
Or possibly if you could gage the force put on a piston, then add HHO to the air that's being sucked into the combustion chamber to see how much HHO is required to get a noticable gain in power. How much HHO does it take to get 10% more push on the piston than with gasolene alone. I think that would give us a goal of HHO production. What do you think?
jboritzki 4 years ago
By the way....I love your videos.
jboritzki 4 years ago
I think it has been shown that HHO will ignite at a ratio of over 100:1. There may not be much power at that mix but it will run very lean. The tests I ran on my Honda were inconclusive. The driving I ran it under was heavy stop and go with only a little hwy cruising. Others who have tested only hwy driving have reported better results than I.
Tnx for the compliment. More coming but donations have been pretty slow.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Hello Zero,and a warm hello to all your reader/ viewers. Thank you for sharing your work. I however are unable to do so due corporate reasons, i lead a team of researchers in to all type of alternative energy, conducting experiments from the very basic through to the full spec analysis of the product. I would like to say that if it was not for the free community(no commercial) people like your self! we would not see a practical, safe, and reliable product for many more years to come.
outonthefringe 4 years ago
My team and i have pour more than a thousand combined hours reading everything we can off the web, some of it is very good then some is just rubbish. -- where do you think your ex friend max - Lol - got his knowledge from!Not everyone in the world has the ability to build there own system or would desire too. So there is a place for the commercial system as well. However, it should come with out the arrogance MaxxxLogan has shown within your responses section.
outonthefringe 4 years ago
To the rest of the technically minded readers i would suggest you search for university thesis's......Any way Zero Good luck, great efforts -Ps ultra sound might be worth the look ***
outonthefringe 4 years ago
I have seen the effects of ultrasound. It serves to combine small bubbles into large, dislodge from the plates and greatly reduces foaming at the surface. I don't think it has much of an impact on total production efficiency, though.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
I seen someone take and put a vacume line on the bottom of the generator running it up past the top of the generator. Then without a bubbler and only a couple flashback valves, he started motor which sucked bubble up through and past the cells. He claimed produced more cause the water passing through was more vaporized with the bubbles. What you think? Keep up the good work! Mark
2drunksracing 4 years ago
have you had this device working on the car? and what kind of fuel milage increases have you seen??? Thanks and love the videos.
jojogreenair 4 years ago
I have a salt water pool, he is spot on. The salt in the water when the DC current is applied produces chlorine. No salt you get hydrogen and oxygen. So what is so new here?
He won't give specifics, but it seems that it needs a closes loop self tuning resonant electronics circuit. Any electronics gurus out there????
TESLAZPF 4 years ago
Yes. Right here. The hints Maxxx has given are already known facts. There are points at which the cell will resonate electrically. These points drift, not only with temp, plate spacing and elyte concentration but also as soon as bubbles start to form. That's why everyone has so much trouble zeroing in on the resonant frequency! While tunable PWM's might be able to sweep through resonance, they can never lock on without closed loop circuitry. That's already where my experiments are headed.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
So your conclusion about vacuum is? a no go or worth carrying forward with this line of experimentation. Four designs that I have watched being developed are all total saturation units, that don't use manifold vacuum. What about creating just a venturi effect to pull the gas out of the generator. Something along the lines of a perfume atomiser
hydrogenassist 4 years ago
You mean like this? watch?v=-vOir0iX8ag The only advantage of having negative pressure on the lines I think is if you have leaky lines. At least you won't lose HHO to the atmosphere. Other than that, even some backpressure wouldn't slow production.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Hello I love your videos and have Ben following them for a while have you tried adding a vibration to your cell plats in the sonic rang? Say like that of a sonic tooth brush, my thinking is that it will help keep the bubbles off the plats and allow more production.
NaturalyUnatural 4 years ago
That's on the list. :-)
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Before it's to late, try to find the good in everything and spread some love around. I know plenty of starved people. It may be you are one of them. If you have something to share, I am sure ZeroFossilFuel will gladly accept you and respect what you have to say.
HHOHippy 4 years ago
Have to disagree with you on this one too. There's nothing Maxxx has even hinted at that I don't already know. That blowhard can keep his "secrets" to himself. Where I am going with my experiments will dwarf anything he has done or will ever do.
Buckle your seatbelts. This is going to be one hell of a ride.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
i think you r missing plenty. there is some merit to his post.
convert you production to mass per unit time, more use full data.
9-12amps is a lot of current, need to get to under 1amp. Are you using DC square wave circuit or a signal generator like the Stan Meyers setup?
TESLAZPF 4 years ago
I can't believe you believe you will be able to bargain your knowledge of this subject (or anything else) to survive what is certainly coming. BTW - there is no other intelligent life out there, stop looking. Accept the fact that it's almost over for poor, poor planet Earth.
HHOHippy 4 years ago
I disagree. This planet is just as much alive as a being as you and I. And just as you and I may get sick, break a bone, get a scrape or cut, it will heal itself, if we just give it half a chance. We have a stewardship assigned to us from God. I for one take that pretty seriously.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
True we are passed the point of no return on a few fronts. To bad for planet Earth. Don't make it more miserable then it already is. It's only going to get worse. So much so that everyone who has a distaste to contribute or love their fellow man will be less then meaningless.
HHOHippy 4 years ago
Excuse me MaxxxLogan: People like you running around the planet passing bad wind and being a complete ass is why we are in the shape we are in. Leave people alone that you don't agree with or you believe you need to hump to satisfy your ego.
HHOHippy 4 years ago
The water gets recycled into the atmosphere as vapor it does not screw the water supply.
magnetizerenergizer 4 years ago
ZeroFossilFuel thats great, I will be trampeled upon without mercy. LOL. Dude you are so funny. You are starting to get on my nerves, I know it's your vid and I'm just a visitor. You want the truth, here is the truth. Do you know what a SHED test is, with regard to vehicle emissions????? If not do some research. This whole water hydrogen is not the cheap solution it is claimed to be. Initial cost is very expensive. Why you ask???
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
You cant run on an unmodified engine with out great emissions problems, the oil used to lubricate the engine is also burnt and attaches it self to the water molecule and the steam that exists the engine is polluted. Once you have a setup working, condense the steam and have a uni lab test the water don't take my work for it.
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
The only sure way is coat every engine friction surface with a spray on teflon/ceramic coating. Use a bio oil and increase the oil pressure. Itcost me $2700, I did the work. First engine ceased. Total cost on the engine cost over $6000. Who is prepaired to do this so there is very little contamination of the water, I know the answer to this question. Screw the water supply then we are all in a world of shit.
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
You know what Maxxx? You're done. Post somewhere else.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
pity i enjoyed the Dr Jackal and Mr Hyde side of things. Ohh well.
TESLAZPF 4 years ago
If 50% of the worlds population vanished tomorrow, global warming would continue, at a slower rate but will be still rising. You cant reverse it. All we need to do is migrate, till the cycle ends, that is those that can. And if nothing happens I'll have something to sell or trade.
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
No, you will have nothing to sell or trade because those of us who do give a damn will beat you at your own game. In that day you will be trampled upon without mercy.
Have a nice day! :-D
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
It's called risk management. As unfair as it seems, those that share will get nowhere in the end. The bottom line is that this planet can't support this much life, it takes one football field in land mass to feed one person per year. THINK ABOUT IT.... Also you can't reverse global warming, impossible!!!!
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
magnetizerenergizer budy i had a good read and watched a crap loads of videos from the site you recommended. One thing you need to understand is that the planet is overpopulated, and no matter what happens, in 15-20 years, there will not be enough food for 60% of the population. At the moment 25% people don't have access to regular food. So if there is a chance for me and my family and friends to be in the 40% of who has access to food and technology (something to trade), why should I share???
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
What makes your family and friends any better than anyone else's?
Absolutely nothing. You, your family, your friends, and everyone else alive in the world will eventually expire.
The difference is some people make the world a better place for the duration, and some make it worse. You fall into the latter group.
knoxjeff 4 years ago
Poor Maxxx is getting a real beating. LOL
I'm sure you would all do the same if it come to protecting your family and friends first, if not there is something wrong with you.
I've PM'ed him he makes a lot of sense but no one is willing to listen it seems. There is some very interesting info he has. One funny one is that most of the people here are not doing anything new. Hmmmm, I asked what he means by it?????? Majority of these systems are the same as a commercial salt water chlorinator???
TESLAZPF 4 years ago
it's pretty simple Max. Those who don't do unto others as they would have done unto them go straight ot fiery hell.
jesslessthemess 3 years ago
Would it not be a great thing if MaxxxLogan was telling the truth,& help pointing u in the right direction. To MaxxxLogan ZFF is not doing this for PROFIT its for the SURVIVAL OF THE PLANET & Generations to com.Check out this site aroadmap2extinction DOT COM. Any info, proof you have The PLANET would be GREATFULL.Hope u can do the right thing for our children & grand children.
magnetizerenergizer 4 years ago
Thanks for the kind words, but why should I share my designs with everyone. When 5 in 100 people will copy and sell the very same system. Guys Stan Mayer got it working did he not??
Hint: It needs to be a self tuning resonant circuit, and you will need to make some sensors and will need to use a microprocessor instead of the 555 timers alone. Quite complex electronics.
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
I know Maxxx. But the difference between you and I is when I finalize my design (and it will be soon), I will release it free of charge into the public domain, without any claim whatsoever. Anyone that wants to build it for personal use or profit, all the power to them. If your design really does work, why you would want to keep it a secret is beyond selfish. All you have done is delay the proliferation by a very small degree.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
I think he's trying to make a space craft/teraformer or self sustaining robot. Just curious what is the precipitate you get when you run the watter through a filter? Um don't you get noxious gases when you burn metal (1 car x 1Billion people). Not a critic I'd like to know. And the residue on the core?
cartmanborg 4 years ago
I know this is leading to the best solutions but. Coal+heat+iron(hopefully recycled)-->steel+h20+(recycled electricty)-->car energy+burned metal+possible precipitate+core residue
There is a reason the crust separates water from the earth's core. I think it is sulfuric acid and ammonia pretty much where Venus is now. Venus must have been run by power hungry lizards or dinosaurs . I hope we figure out plants are the return cycle soon..........
cartmanborg 4 years ago
My car runs just like Stand Meyers car does, just water, no additives. Don't ask me to post my experiments, as I have no intention too ever.
Zero, think outside the square. Its a molecular issue you need to overcome. A hint, you need the cell to run at 15+ psi. Safety first, run many pressure relief devices as a failsafe. And for gods sake people buy real hydrogen flash arrestors, they are only $180.
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
That's a lot of hot air from a guy who refuses to provide any evidence.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
i agree fully
yieldtracker 4 years ago
Yes. I suspect if he runs his car on anything other than gasoline it's that very same hot air. Seems to have an abundance of that free energy to spare.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Yes, they say they want to save humanity so will not post anything, they say many will copy. .. What a load of crap! If they are interested in humanity they will post it. It will be dated etc etc; that is, if they have anything at all to post that is worthwhile. At present, they appear to be charletons.
viking1au 4 years ago
Great experiments, no beef there. But why don't you guys try using some of Nikola Tesla's fundamental laws and apply them, you would be amazed. You may ask what those laws are, well you have the knowledge base at your fingertips. Google it. Sorry to be an ass but it took me just over two years to figure it out.
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
And who says we're NOT involved with testing Tesla inspired devices? I'm just one guy. I can pursue only just so many research tracks without proper funding or staffing.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Why would you want to run the cell in vacuum, that is supper dangerous, don't mix explosive gases and vacuum?? Positive pressure is much, much safer when implemented correctly. Making these cells with lexen and glass jars and the like is suicidal, even little blow ups can cause serious injury. Just so you can see the reaction?!?!?! This is my first beef with all this stuff. More to come... : )
MaxxxLogan 4 years ago
Hey Z Found a site that may be usefull to produce electricity with thermoelectric modules.They have many applications, one of them illiminating altenators on big riggs,which use 72 Hi-Z 14 modules on exhaust,gives them over 1 KLW,inturn saving 3 to 5 hpw at the drive shaft, saving them fuel.May be worth a look instead of adding extra alt. Hi-Z Technologies Dot COM.Keep Up The GREAT WORK.
magnetizerenergizer 4 years ago
Great work Zero. I was hoping for vacume to be the holy grail too.A question to anyone who knows. The difference bettween 304 and 316 Stainless steel??Is hydrogen production the same? Only more maintenance? At my supplier the higher quality steel, costs over a third more.
glen196969 4 years ago
Production is VERY close but maintenance is night and day. Spend the 1/3 more. Trust me. Even if it takes longer to save a few more dollars.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Hi ZZF,
why don´t you use the vaccuum pump
directly at the cell.
Putting a bubbler between it in my
opinion will not work to generate
a right vaccuum inside the HHO generator...
Regards, Stefan.
overunitydotcom 4 years ago
The vacuum is the same on both sides of the bubbler, Stefan.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
I really don´t believe this.
How is your bubbler built ?
You just suck in the air from the upper output of the bubbler, but you won´t raise the water much,
because the water can not be compressed much.
So there will not much real vaccuum ontop ofthe electrolyte surface... So please try again with the vaccuum directly over the electrolyzer.
Many thanks.
overunitydotcom 4 years ago
ok i tryied the propain deal didnt work :(
mykels5 4 years ago
zero thanks for all your help. im sorry i dont have any videos to show you i was just excited to see another.i think you did really good.
mykels5 4 years ago
WHERE IS #60 ?
mykels5 4 years ago
Here's an even better question. Where's YOUR video #1?
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Also, I'm still curious about the OSPMM. Maybe just a teaser vid to let us in the loop :)
itwasthedog 4 years ago
Check out my latest favorite vid of the OC-MPMM. I was in the ballpark with right angle fields. Time to dust off the ole magnetic rotor.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Woo-Hoo!
itwasthedog 4 years ago
Zero - A car engine displacing 1.5 liters turning 2000 rpm will inhale roughly 1500 liters of air/fuel mix per minute. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, but I wonder if we're not thinking backwards on the deal. If you ignite HHO in a closed container, it implodes. Sholud we think about making a positive displacement engine that runs on vacuum?
itwasthedog 4 years ago
It IMplodes only of it's a perfect ratio mix of 33.33%/66.67%. Anything off this perfect mix ratio EXplodes. Filling a water bottle and letting a bit of air in demonstrates this easily. Hydrogen will also burn extremely lean, over 100:1. So now what do your numbers look like?
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Lessee... 1500 liters of air/fuel and 1/100 has to be H, air is (about) 80% nitrogen + 20% oxygen, does that mean you'd need 46 volumes of air for 1 volume of HHO? If so, does that mean you'd need 32 liters of HHO per min to supply a 1.5 liter motor turning @ 2000 RPM? Can you make a brief chemistry vid for those of us a little behind the 8-ball? Thanks!
itwasthedog 4 years ago
That is right in the ballpark. Suddenly it doesn't seem so far out of reach. Now does it? ;-)
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
so - with the current efficiency of 4.56 ml/min/watt, that gives us 219.298 watts per liter, and if we need 32 liters per minute, we'd need 7017 watts (about 7KW) to produce the gas. With one horseposer = 746 watts (a rough figure is 1 horse per 1KW generator size), you'd need only 7 of the engine's available horsepower to make the gas. An car's AC pump draws more power than that! Please don't give up!
itwasthedog 4 years ago
Have you considered using peltier thermoelectrics, you could easily position them onto the exhaust to use the waste heat to create enough current to run another hho generator and a brushless vacuum pump this could improve the engines efficiency remove the extra load placed on the alternator to give an increased mpg.... out of interest have you noticed an mpg increase since fitting you hho system?
hanebrink 4 years ago
thermoelectrics work effeciently to heat and cool when powered but not so much to create electricity from a heat source.
And no, my MPG has not increased, even at 1.5 LPM. There's still more alternator load on the engine from the amps being drawn than is being returned by the HHO created.
It is my opinion so far that brute force cells are of little benefit unless being powered exclusively from recovered waste energy.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
i ran a test on puting my plates closer togather and deeper in water 3-4 inches under and made more gas,8 plats.
mykels5 4 years ago
Zero maby you need to make your cell bigger to get the right preshure, so for the engin.
mykels5 4 years ago
you seem to be the master at making the gens and doing the experiments but i was wondering does light effect the rate of production because the power tube was in complete dark and i made a similar one but with a clear jar and mine did not produce not even half of the gas also i made one out of razor blades and it seems to work but not as good as expected any advice?
neodj33 4 years ago
Razor blades, eh? I have seen others try to produce more gas from plates with sharp edges because they observed more gas at the edges. While this may be true, it appears to be at the expense of gas being produced across the plate surfaces. I've been buffing my plates edges round ever since.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
I think it's an illusion, just like vacuum was an illusion for me. But that didn't stop me from testing it to be sure. Now I'm sure. If you believe you can make a cell produce more with sharp edges you should pursue it to the fullest.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
thanks for the advice
neodj33 4 years ago
I was wondering , when hydrogen is used as a fuel does it burn hotter than gasoline? If it does then will it damage the pistons, valves or other internal parts?
ocneb 4 years ago
It does burn hotter, but it also burns much faster meaning the heat does not have time to transfer to the cylinder walls. Engines running pore HHO actually run cooler than gasoline.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Hi ZFF been working on my cell Ur a grate help Thanks ? for u how much amp draw would u recommend when setting up cell on my truck
lakeratlarry2 4 years ago
Depends on the overall surface area of the plates in solution. On my cell (312 sq-in total) I shoot for 10 amps cold, 20 amps hot. More gas requires more cells, same target amps per cell. Therefore 5 cells should draw 50 amps cold 100 amps hot. Way beyond the capacity of a standard alternator. Here you'll need a 2nd alternator or extra heavy duty replacement for your existing one.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Zero, how do you calculate total sq-in area? Is it by each plate area, or cell area? Then is it by total area or by what part is in solution? I hope I did not miss this in one of your earlier videos. Thanks and keep up the good work.
83Marine 4 years ago
It's total ACTIVE surface area in solution, that surface ares which creates the gaps in between the plates.
Example: 5 plates measuring 2" x 2" each configured +n-n+. Each plate exposes both sides to another plate (8") except the 2 outside +plates which expose ony one side to another plate. Total area = 32sq-in, not 40.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
What kind of Adhesive did you use against the plates and the lexan? I tried Super Glue Marine Epoxy and in one week my 13 plate cell fell apart when I cranked it up to 25 to 30 amps. Is the Marine Tex mentioned on the other video comments best or you recommenend a better one.
Thanks..
notz72 4 years ago
I used 3M White Eurathane Marine adhesive. Found it at Home Depot. Goop brand marine adhesive is also good. Be sure to let it cure thoroughly, 3 or more days, before placing in service.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
C'mon Mr ZERO. I have been waiting anxiously for a week now for #60. We have all been waiting for a week for #60. We all want #60 NOW.! It is all just getting real interesting.
viking1au 4 years ago
I'll tell you what. You come here and work in my unheated garage at 6*F.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Holy cow; 6*F is about -14.4*C. That is Polar Bears Paradise! I am in Melbourne (Australia), in the grips of summer heat. Today we are going to get about 37*C, or about 99*F in your language. Have a look on youtube at the Honda FCX & see what you can glean. An article in the local paper today states Honda are keen to sell the car here, within 2 years if poss. I think Volkswagon have a couple of cars in devlopment, one called the Samba. All fuel cell tech.
viking1au 4 years ago
Now you know why I'd like to convert my insulated shed to a heated lab. But first I need a NEW shed to store my things, then materials to complete and outfit the lab, not to mention the time, and of course the money.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
I want to start making some HHO in my spare time in Iowa. Cold here. I burn wood in the shop. I'm going to wait till I don't have to burn next to my work. Is that ignorant of me to think that I would be in danger? Big two car garage. I should add that I will be the first to make tons of the stuff! But seriously?
atcaleb 4 years ago
Unless you plan to produce hundreds of cubic feet of HHO per minute and vent it into the garage, or your wood burning stove is an open pit with sparks flying directly beside your work area, I don't see a problem with that at all. H2 disperses to noncompustable proportions VERY quickly. The real danger is sparks inside your cells from poor electrical connections.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Actually, GM Sequal looks ok, but it's U.K. counterpart, the HY-Wire, built by Vauxhall, looks better. Daimler Chrysler effort looks good too, but they seem to be attempting to "add too much value", in an attempt to justify high pricing when in fact, they should be able to substantially reduce prices of such cars.
viking1au 4 years ago
Anything brought to you by the automotive industry is bound to be nothing more than the illusion of conservation, and make you pay more for the product, AND not before their oil barron friends can double the price of crude.
Or they want to bring you Hydrogen in such a way that they can make you pay for them to convert it from water using free solar power.
SOCH AH DEEEEELL! RIGHT?!?!
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Yes, but it seems Volkswagen are keen to reclaim the position once held as "the peoples' car"and they seem keen to do this with cars from their "UP" series. Thinking is that if they can make them truly cheap to run, and green, they will reclaim this crown. Samba is supposed to have 12 Li Ion batteries (packs?) and Electric motor and HHO generation. We will see.@#$%-----
viking1au 4 years ago
Hi Zero! Great job, I hav been thinking, what if you let the pump run, while cell is running. Please try to disconnect the power and se if it still produces, og if it just goes dead....
Snopy2005 4 years ago
It just goes dead.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
To bad....
Snopy2005 4 years ago
You must have watched a lot of Mr.Wizard when you were younger. Keep up the great work! :)
redviper101 4 years ago
YOU BET! I was very sad when he passed away recently. May he rest in peace.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
great job. Vacuum only changes the boiling point of water. for every lb of pressure the boiling point is incressed 2deg C . At 24 inches of vac you are boiling the water (cold). Maybe a storeage tank with a spring loaded bladder is the answer. While the vac is high, it pulls the bladder back and when you step on it you lose vac causeing the bladder to push hho into the intake. You would need a pod the size of a brake booster. Use a brake booster .
damell2 4 years ago
another question i had was that of safety. now then, if there was a way to have a catalytic converter of sorts to absorb the oxygen and instead intake more oxygen througn the air intake. the only problem with this is the fact that we would be using oxygen from the atmosphere. this been said, it would solve the problem of having a potential bomb under your car and possibly remove the need for a bubbler or a flashback arrestor.
deathparade32 4 years ago
also, i was thinking that this reaction may not occur if the electricity was constant and not pulsed. the reaction may not have a chance. i am currently planing on using lithium rather than sodium, but the effect should be the same.
deathparade32 4 years ago
Actually the reaction DOES have a chanceand the cell acts as a capacitor holding the charge between pulses.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
so you do NOT have to add electrolyte?
deathparade32 4 years ago
Of course you need electrolyte. I'm using 0.66N KOH.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
no, all im saying is that after you add electrolyte, will you ever need to add more, in a perfect system that is. i would think not because the KOH for example would split into K and OH then the K would steal an OH from an H2O creating H and KOH starting the process all over again
deathparade32 4 years ago
Theoretically, the bubbler is supposed to condense any KOH that escapes the cell to be recycled. The electrolyte itself is not consumed by the process of electrolysis.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
ok, so then your bubbler and your reaction chamber would have to be linked so that your electrolyte would, for sure, winde back up in the reaction chamber
deathparade32 4 years ago
Correct. One closed loop system. Entirely feasable
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
with your experiments, do you ever have to add more electrolyte? or does the sodium, after split, react with the water and turn back into sodium hydroxide. this reaction also produces hydrogen aswell, so i fone could keep this circle going then you would have the bonus of not having to add electrolyte and added hydrogen.
deathparade32 4 years ago
first off, i would like to thank you for what a wonderful thing you are doing. i have done some of my own experiments and research, mainly research though. one thing that i noticed is that the most commonly used electrolyte besides salt is sodium, potassium, and lithium hydroxide.
deathparade32 4 years ago
What is the white "goop" on the zero cell? and also what is your electrolyte, and what is the concentration? Thank you.
flipster12000 4 years ago
White goop is 3M marine adhesive.
E-lite is KOH, concentration 0.67N.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Those "500 ml" water bottles are actually 530 ml. I measured one myself with a measuring cup and a funnel as well as a pharmacy's measuring spoon. You are actually getting better results than you think! Very cool huh? Keep up the great work. I've learned so much from your work and look forward to seeing many more of your videos in the future. Thank you.
flipster12000 4 years ago
Actually, the ones I use are 520. When I push the bottom out to make it convex it goes to 530. But, my water line mark is at precisely 500ml leaving 30ml trapped air at the top for the tube in the center so it doesn't take in any water.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
One of Stan Meyers patents uses injection of cooled exhuast gases into the HHO for stabilization, you could possibly run a line from the exhuast manifold and cool it with a heat exchanger in front of the radiator to your cell to gain the required pressure.
DAB
dryadiabatic 4 years ago
Correct. I could also just pull it from further back in the exhaust with the cell under vacuum with a 3/8" solid fuel line. By the time it gets to the front it would be cool enough to draw into the cell. All refinements for later.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
During the winter months I think it might be cool enough. The exhuast temp on your honda will be near 1100F at the manifold at highway speeds. You will have to probably need to tap the exhuast system behind the muffler then it will most likely be over 300F.
dryadiabatic 4 years ago
With the cell under pressure you would actually be able to introduce the needed HHO during acceleration by using the gas that is under pressure in the cell by releasing the pressure and feeding it to the motor. As the cell would need to charge up again you may be able to have a second cell until the first cell pressurizes again. Can you comment?
joemumu 4 years ago
True. I'm just leary of collecting too much HHO under pressure. It's mighty potent stuff even when it's not concentrated by pressure.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Yes, I understand your concern and think that it's valid. I was also thinking that myself. As it stands, what you have now is a safe setup. Thanks for your answer. Keep it up. The things I learn from following your progress will help me when financially, I am ready to go forward with my own HHO cell. ZFF AKA "Pioneer ala opensource"
joemumu 4 years ago
have you ever tried other kinds of electrolytes like a oxidizer to see what would happen like potassium permaganet or use a flyback transformer from a tv to get the voltage to 20k volts if i had not almost cut off my thumb on a another project i would be doing it myself
tankmdg 4 years ago
maybe it would be best to let the pros handle it... :)
flahr1 4 years ago
Come on now. Be nice. :-)
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Hello, Keep up the good work. Originally your concern was to supply the motor with more HHO when vacuum dropped. With no change in gas production under vacuum as you have proved, you say that the same would be true with the cell under pressure.
joemumu 4 years ago
Yes. The difference would be that bubbles within the cell would be smaller under pressure instead of bigger under vacuum as they were in this experiment. This may actually help keep plates in greater contact with the water to produce more HHO once it's allowed to expand at atmospheric pressure. Too bad my test container won't hold back some pressure or I'd test that theory right now!
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
By applying a vaccum on your HHO cell, you'll only pump out the air that's in the cell at the time. Once it's gone,no matter how long the vaccum pump runs, you won't get any more out. May I suggest that you install a one way valve on top of your cell, there by permitting air into the cell under a vaccum which in turn would permit the vaccum to draw more HHO into the intake of your car. Keep up the great work that your doing.
Birdman12035 4 years ago
You can do it Zero! Never give up.
truefictions 4 years ago 4
Maybe I am not missing something here but it looks to me that you are not going to fill the hhometer any faster than the pump can pump it into the hhometer. So how are you going to get an accurate measurement? Correct me if I am wrong.
cousinles80 4 years ago
The pump displacement and speed is capable of 20-30 times free flow volume than the cell can produce now.
ZeroFossilFuel 4 years ago
Have you tried LYE as a catalyst?
jcndizo 4 years ago