13H Refutes CCHR: Industry of Death (Behavioral Science)

[AppetiteForRoses]

Get a life babe xx

[TMOvids]

Thanks for the help with the playlist. This part is quite good. I didn't like the emphasis on Pavlov winning a nobel prize. Luc Montagnier won a nobel prize and is now going about supporting AIDS denialists, who can point to his nobel prize like it means everything he says is awesome.

I also feel very bad about the implication that electrically shocking children could be justified on the grounds of misbehaviour.

[13Heathens]

@TMOvids "I also feel very bad about the implication that electrically shocking children could be justified on the grounds of misbehaviour"

One of the many facilities I went to had some child sex offenders within the community. Part of the special program which they were a part of required them to wear an elastic around their wrist. Whenever they had an inappropriate impulse they were expected to snap the elastic (causing pain).. we can discuss this more in private if you'd like.

[TheDragonCult]

essentially Scientology IS what it pretends to be against.

[Diazt3r]

you don't have to listen to Scientology propaganda to see that psychiatry is a pseudo science. your videos are just completely subjective nonsense. on par with this scientology nonsense

/facepalm

[canary11141]

There is a connection between Wundt & Niesztske. L Ron Hubbard found Psychs to be way out of touch with reality.

[elwyns80]

Zyprexa, sold as an anxiety drug to elderly and children, This Psychitric drug was sold for 7 years and made 38 Billion Dollars in that time. But was only approved to be prescribe for severe cases of schitzophrenia. They were just sued by 30 000 americans for 1.4 Billion Dollars for side effects caused including Diabetes in your people and heart attacks in elderly and some cases of death. All from a drug pushed by the Drug companies and psychiatrists,

[lostinthelandoflies]

Shocks? Also commonly used in the USSR and Maoist China to convert dissidents and political opponents. Despite having no scientific grounding apart from 'we don't know how but it seems to work' it is still used in the hospital near me to cure depression and other problems of life.

[mdsatan]

@lostinthelandoflies also used to ''cure homosexuality'', by religious cults

[lostinthelandoflies]

Skinner's shocks were mainly used against homosexuals actually. Not criminals. He was awarded 1990 - Citation for Outstanding Lifetime Contribution to Psychology.

[lostinthelandoflies]

His best known critic, Noam Chomsky claimed that Skinner was not a scientist because he rejected the hypothetico-deductive model of theory testing, that Skinner had no science of behavior, and that Skinner's works were highly conducive to justifying or advancing totalitarianism. From Wiki.

[13Heathens]

Chomsky's 1959 review has drawn fire from a number of critics, the most famous criticism being that of Kenneth MacCorquodale's 1970 paper On Chomskys Review of Skinners Verbal Behavior (Journal of the Experimental Analysis of Behavior, volume 13, pages 8399).

[13Heathens]

This and similar critiques have raised certain points not generally acknowledged outside of behavioral psychology, such as the claim that Chomsky did not possess an adequate understanding of either behavioral psychology in general, or the differences between Skinner's behaviorism and other varieties; consequently, it is argued that he made several serious errors.

[13Heathens]

I'd like to see some certification of that. I've come across no records of human testing.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Google electric shocks homosexuals

[Cyntari]

Electro shock therepy is designed to aid in electricly stimulating the brain. In the brain there r "synapses" which fire an electric pulse into "neuron receptors." This is the basis for all thought to occur. If a synapse is misfiring out side the rythm that it is set to or not firing at all then there is a problem. Much like a piston in a car, if it's misfiring or not firing at all then the engine is running sufficently. 1 or 2 or 12 synapses doing this is no big deal: "continue on next section"

[Cyntari]

but if hundreds or thousands are doing so there is a serious problem. Even though the firing is not functioning as it should the brain still must interpret the confusing info or no info at all. It has to throw out something so it may make a person halucinate or hear voices or make them depressed or a great number of other ailments. When using electro shock you are forcing all the synapses to fire in unison in hopes that it will start the synapses firing in rythm or to start: "continue on next."

[Cyntari]

firing again for those that have stopped. Kind of like jumping a car or hitting reset on a video game console. (If those analgies offend anyone I'm sorry it is definetly not intended that way I'm just trying to make it easier to understand.) Now this is a extreme measure to take but it can be effective however I will state that 1 treatment may not do much 2 hopefully will improve and 3 IS THE ABSOLUTE MAX! Anymore than that is rediculous. This is coming from my brother with a "continued on next"

[Cyntari]

Master's degree in psychology that if 3 doesn't do it then it never will. It does suck how this is done but it is a sound practice. A better way of doing it is to map out a persons brain and determine which synapses are defective and use nanotech to go in to those synapses and regulate the electrical discharges but unfortunately as you already know we neither have the technology for the maping or for the nanomachines. So for now, it's all we've got. (And yes I know my spelling is terrible.)

[Cyntari]

Wow my comments really got whacked out of shape. Try this for the comments correct order.

1. Electro shock therapy is

2. but if hundreds of

3. firing again for those

4. Master's degree in

[elwyns80]

This has to be the most inventive reply to how shock therapy is meant to help, but of course as usual there is absolute NO scientific evidence to back up your creative idea. But please feel free to send through actual scientific proof of people impoving after electro shock , other than becoming docile. and easier to control.

[Cyntari]

That's the working theory. The problem with proving it is that first you would have to take apart a person's brain and put it under a microscope to determine which synapses are broken, then reconstruct it, shock the patient, then dismantle it again to see how well it works which would obviously kill the patient before he got anywhere near the electro shock part of the process. That's the huge problem with psychiatry as a medical profession, u would have to kill the patient to check your results.

[TroubleMaker12321]

I never thought I would like death metal.

[NaturalSelection2]

Personally I've felt a lot better after discontinuing medication, and think that it's a field that's been seriously abused (drapetomania etc.). That abuse is particularly dangerous as it deals with one of the most complex structures--the human mind.

I have a philosophy of not meddling with what is not often understood. Consequences could be horrifying.

Most of my friends and I have found other solutions to our problems.

This "documentary" is exaggerated, but the premise is a legitimate concern.

[NaturalSelection2]

That and yes, sexual deviants must be treated, but it's only been a few decades since homosexuality has been removed from the DSM.

[NaturalSelection2]

Also, as a situationist, I believe that shock treatment isn't the only or even the best approach.

But that's more than I could fit into YouTube comments, and I don't want to get into an argument but rather to simply express my two cents based on personal experiences.

So I'll stop there now.

[MsKittieReed]

The "Skinner Box" they're referencing is NOT the box his daughter was placed in. She was placed in the "Air Crib" he created. It's a playpen sized crib that controls air temperature and humidity, and is much easier to clean. It was a child-rearing aid he created for his wife, because his daugher had colic. It actually kept her very happy and healthy (as you mentioned - the picture of her in it speaks for itself). So that's complete bullshit, nice try culties.

[RyuDarragh]

The "Skinner Box" his daughter played in was not, as they imply, created as part of his experimental work, but was made as "informed" childhood playset. Think "PlaySchool" toys came out of nowhere ? And, where the hell do they get "270 volt batteries" ? I'm puzzled about that.. oh, they're scientifically illiterate, too. Forgot.

[darthspeaks]

When ever a man makes a stand on an important issue, there invariably is another with a stick trying to make him kneel. Ignore the spam and insults.

[M1thotyn]

I want you to bust apart Robert Whitakers and Elliot Valensteins works.

Do that. Don't cherry pick the bullshit you use to make your "for lulz" argument, take this fucking seriously because this isn't a fucking game and you're *NOT* anonymous !

[anonyk23]

I just watched THEIR thing that this section debunks and would like it known that pretty much everyone hates the Rotenberg center that they showed except for Matthew Israel, who owns it, and the parents who send their kids there. Even Autism Society of America kicked them out of their exhibit hall, and ASA refuses to take a stand on ANYTHING.

[TheAutobot]

OMFG. " The sinister Skinner Box" Oh noes. Good God why can't these people just leave this brilliant men out of this slander.

[NiDeCo]

Wow, you rock!

You are one of the best analysers I've seen that systematically and logically breaks down the video's of the Church of Scientology ('cause yeah, CCHR = Scientology)

Keep 'm coming, man ;)

[AnonOutreach]

13heathens:

It's not just a pruning operation for dissidents--it's insuring that those who struggle aren't forced by law to comply with psychiatric care of any kind.

In most places now, unless one is a "clear and present danger to oneself or others" [which Lisa McPherson obviously WAS]you can't be held against your will. There's also usually an assessment period and after that the hospital MUST let you go, if you don't want to stay.

CCHR hindered those who won those laws.

[Cyntari]

72 hours is all they can hold a person.

[Cyntari]

I know because a friends crazy wife during their breakdown to divorce told him to take his guns out of her house and take them to sell at a pawn shop then told the cops he had a lot of guns and where he was heading and that he was considering commiting suicide. So he went to the psych ward for 72 hours before they determined his wife should be the one in there.

[runningwild234444]

Deborah by the way is married to Barry Buzan, brother of mathematician and mnemonics expert Tony Buzan. She is a successful artist happily living with her husband in London.

She continues to insist that rumors of her death my suicide are greatly exaggerated.

[runningwild234444]

Deborah Skinner Buzan affirmed that these legends were nothing more than outrageous rumors:

[T]here's the story that after my father "let me out", I became psychotic. Well, I didn't. That I sued him in a court of law is also untrue. And, contrary to hearsay, I didn't shoot myself in a bowling alley in Billings, Montana. I have never even been to Billings, Montana.

[AnonOutreach]

Pavlov punched holes in kid's cheeks? Where the fluck did they come up with that idiot notion?

Then the Skinner box urban legend, again *rolls eyes*

CoS extensively uses behavioural conditioning--talk about hypocrisy.

Gee, I wonder how much money CoS has suckered out of its followers to be behaviourally conditioned?

Half of this is utter unproven bullshit.

There's dissidence to be had about psych professions however CoS are so stupid they don't know the legitimate arguments.

[JohnnyAnonic]

Actually, the Hollywood exhibit does include film footage of children wearing saliva collectors. Obviously these were not from Pavlov's experiments, but he might or might not have done the same thing. Science depends on measurement.

The exhibit also displays a non-invasive device for measuring erections, as if there's something wrong with measuring that. The first three sections of the exhibit are full of that "look at the scary machine" nonsense.

[AnonOutreach]

JohnnyAnonic:

The problem with CoS is context as well as logic.

Where did the "saliva collectors" come from? What country? Who was the psychologist? Are they painful? What was the purpose?

As you've stated science depends on measurement.

And "erection measurer" [snicker] well, I think Masters and Johnson finding out we all aren't as strange as we thought was rather comforting.

The volunteers didn't complain so why should CoS?

CoS medical/scientific ignorance never fails to astound me!

[Cyntari]

I'm sorry but a lot of what I saw on that video I believe was very shady especially the kid with the saliva duct in his jaw. I don't believe that for a moment. I've studied Pavlov in college my brother has a masters degree in psychology and I call bulshit on that one. You'll also notice that the footage of things that supposedly happened in the distant past has a little bit to high definition for film of that time. Remember, the cult has a movie making lot with a special effects division.

[BlueAsbestosCosBlues]

$cientology control methods Exposed again! Shame on you CO$!

[truvelocity]

those so called "chemicals" are hormones. Peptides! SSRI's are Seratonin (a pleasure hormone we release in the brain) re uptake inhibitors. There is documentation that SSRI's do cause brain damage over long term use. Learned this from a pharmaceutical company that manufactures enzymes (Foods to feed the "chemicals" of the brain) with non toxic results.

[Ironhead097]

slappin mah ironbrainz with logic and great critical thinking!

[dutchfagadam]

Great stuff once again 13Heathens love your work on these series !!

I've seen the CCHR video and had similar thoughts, just can't word them like you do :D

[icyadore]

I'm sure their scary voice over and imagery isn't meant to condition anything.... ;)

[laladiel]

sounds to me like the person who wrote the script for scientology is losing it and should see a shrink quickly.

[JohnnyAnonic]

You can hear him narrating another tape in v=nqMeMOUzdZs. What a ham.

The most recent version of that tape has a different narrator.

[laladiel]

he seemed angry on the casset tape, like someone kept poking him while he was trying to record it.

[tenshirei]

Yeah, Skinner's daughter has been pissed about that myth for years.

[JohnnyAnonic]

She really ought to send a cease & desist letter to CCHR, followed by legal action if necessary.

[laladiel]

that would be fun to see. cos getting one of those insted of sending.

[Truth1367]

Good job once again 13H.

[trwvd7]

Info and a pic of what the Skinner box was can be found on the Urban Legend site: Snopes

[caekisalie]

I am looking foreard to your next video :-) as I have quite some knowledge about the Nazi Psychiatry system,(not because I am german, more because of my historical interest) and I am getting constatly harrassed by those cchr people, telling me i am a nzi because i criticise them

[AnonOutreach]

caek:

The Scilons IGNORANCE of what real problems need to be addressed about the psych systems make them more a hindrance than a help to the anti-psych/pro-decision faction.

I wish CoS would just STFU because they make all the intelligent dissidents look stupid.