DP, if u haven't studied the Ugaritic Texts, please do. Judaism, in it's earliest years, was definitely polytheistic. They later covertly attempted to make the transition to Monotheism. The verses u read r just a few clues to their polytheism.
There's not enough space to cover this decently, but I'll just say that we have the Ugaritic Texts which is like an ancient Enigma machine that unlocks many secrets of early Judaism.
In short: you are right to call the Bible a henotheistic work, because it is. It puts forth (ultimately) that YHWH (Ineffable Being) is more worthy of worship than the other gods (Physical beings). And it is correct to do so.
The god of the Bible is an unlimited spirit, and has no complete physical representation. "The gods" (the Elohim, Angels, the gods of all ancient polytheistic pantheons) are/were limited, "created" beings, just like you and me (we were made in their image). Confusion arises from the idea that some of these physical gods understand, and perfectly reflect, the will of the The Most High (called YHWH in the Bible) and so in a sense, become indistinguishable from/ fully one with The Most High.
Excuse me but YHWH was "not" the most high god! He was one of 70 sons of god, the most high being "El." (for Elohim and/or Eloha). The early Jews also called him El Elyon, and later El Shaddai.
What many Xians don't know is that the earliest Jews lived among, and as, Canaanites. When they departed to form their own, they adopted the only Pantheon they knew, the Canaanite Pantheon.
Remember the phrase "these are my chosen ones?" We now know what it means, thanks to the Ugaritic Texts
@johnpecquex We Orthodox Christians (300 million Eastern Orthodox Church, 85 million Oriental Orthodox Church) don't ignore 1 Cor 8.5-6. We teach Theosis; "The Son of God became man, that we might become god" - St. Athanasius of Alexandria. We believe the Trinity is the supreme God & that, as the Bible indicates, the Saints (the dead in Christ) have achieved Theosis. We pray to the Saints & ask them to pray for us, and we venerate their images/icons. Our icons are awesome. :-)
In a way, the Orthodox Church (e.g., 300 million Eastern Orthodox, 85 million Oriental Orthodox) is henotheistic. "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'?" (John 10.34). We Orthodox Christians teach Theosis/Deification; "The Son of God became man, that we might become god" - St. Athanasius of Alexandria. We believe Saints (angels & humans), whom we pray to, have achieved Theosis, but that the Trinity is eternally superior. We freak out the Protestants :-)
@Tov0voT I stressed "in a way ... is henotheistic". We don't view henotheism as Mormons do & it's easy to see how Protestants misunderstand us. I hear fellow Orthodox Christians use the term "worship" in regard to our praying to the Saints & venerating their icons, but we don't mean "worship" in the sense that Protestants probably think we do. Of course, anti-Trinitarians copy & paste the definition for Tritheism over the one for Trinitarianism. Terminology is tricky.
@Tov0voT Actually, I prefer term Monolatrism over Henotheism. Latter emplies possible existance of many gods equally worthy of worship. Former indicates belief that the God you worship is mightier than the other gods. According to Bible, it appears Angels existed before creation of material universe. Did the cu attempt by Lucifer & 1/3 of the Angels result in a re-order of the Super Beings into one Super God (Yahweh/Trinity) & His Angels (lesser good gods) aligned against Demons (bad gods)?
@Tov0voT Saint Archangel Michael belongs to the 7th lower caste of the 9 Choirs of Angels. Yet, because of his astonishing victory against Lucifer during the war in Heaven, Michael became Archistrategos, commander over ALL Angels! Lucifer used to be a member of the highest Choir in the highest of the three Hierachies (3 Choirs in each Hierachy), but his rebellion demoted him to Satan, leader of the Demons. Jesus even called us humans "gods", so, yes, I am a Monolatristic Christian Trinitarian.
Of course the ancient Isrealities weren't always monotheistic. They worshipped Canaanite gods, hence why Moses apparently got pissed and broke the first set of ten commandments. Some scholars even speculate that the Israelites were actually Canaanites, who broke off and went in a more monotheistic direction.
Regarding your last point about Genesis ch1. Some apologists claim that god was using the 'royal we' as in Queen Vic's - "We are not amused." when talking in the first person singular. My problem with this is that god doesn't keep this pretension up throughout the bible.
..Moses made the plea to Pharoh that there was only one true God but Pharoh would not believe which ended in the death of his son. Likewise when Jesus came here he said..." No one comes unto the father except by me" stating that He and the father are one. This is unique to Christianity, along with imparting immortality to the believer when Jesus returns.
However, I think a better choice would be Monolatrism. Since my understanding of Henotheism implies that a person would switch between gods as the need arose.
Ok, there is one creator god, Yahweh. there are other 'gods' but they are not to be worshipped as gods. People were worshipping angels and heavenly council as gods. Yahweh has no equal, every being is under him.
Elohim comes from the word El, which means god and was also the name of the Caanite chief deity (kinda like Zeus is essentially Deus - god). It is not the plural form of El, which is Elim, but is the plural form of Eloha, which is a variant of El. The verse makes it sound very, very likely that it hails from a polytheistic time, where Elohim meant "the gods".
To me, it seems like the modern Christian ideas of God are based on Zeus. Let's run down the list: Bearded old-yet-youthful guy, fools around with virgin women having demigod offspring with them, zaps sinners with thunderbolts (Yahweh NEVER did that even once in the Bible), rules from a mountain, has a temper (well, so does Yahweh) and is opposed by an underworld deity.
"it seems like the modern Christian ideas of God are based on Zeus"
As the modern Christian ideas were born under the influence of the Greco-Roman empire, rather than under the influence of Levantine empires.
And all it required was adjusting the character traits of El and the Elohim.
The part I find interesting is how the contractor of creation got written out of religious history and the mere carpenter got elevated to the supreme level.
Christians will tell you that the references to other gods in the OT should be interpreted as "false gods" which I can accept, I sometimes say things like "God is an ass" which should not imply that I believe in the Judeo-Christian god, just the concept. I'm more convinced by the language in Genesis implying that God is actually a pantheon, probably borrowed from or related to the Levantine Elohim.
Gads. Who knew all this was in there? I spent decades attending *bible studies*, and at no time was there a discussion of anything of this sort. Bible studies weren't a search for the truth, they were an exercise in brainwashing. Come to think of it, over all those years there were few verses studied in depth. Also: how many *miracles* are done by jesus in the bible? Not many, really. How many times can you rehash the few miracles without getting bored and jaded? But that is what they did.
Thousands and thousands of people who actually studied the Bible.
As you have come to realize yourself your "Bible studies" weren't studies of the Bible, they were brainwashing and studies of apologetics whose main aim was to PREVENT you from studying the Bible.
Damn that translating the Bible into the vulgar and allowing just anybody to possess a copy.
Read Asimov on The Bible to get a start on Bible study. A bit dated but still excellent.
@IsaacBickerstaffEsq: You are right, of course. I console myself that, though I am old, at least I didn't die believing in all the foul lies. And I owe my clarity to youtube atheists...I'll be forever grateful. It has been such a gift to me to discard the confusion that I lived with as a believer..I was always able to handle the truth; I just didn't know where to look.
i like to relate this to how we as humans have our team mentality, mascots and Nationalism. People formed their tribes and made their identities as people "Israelites", "Babylonians" etc.. and they needed to make their gods to compete for war moral and to justify their conquests as a group.
God is Wheat / Jesus is bread.(it was all just a dream)
TheIAMINU 2 days ago
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Cootabux 7 months ago
Comment removed
Cootabux 7 months ago
thank for all these eye opener
k9dog1000 10 months ago
It means no other god as great as him.
DP, if u haven't studied the Ugaritic Texts, please do. Judaism, in it's earliest years, was definitely polytheistic. They later covertly attempted to make the transition to Monotheism. The verses u read r just a few clues to their polytheism.
There's not enough space to cover this decently, but I'll just say that we have the Ugaritic Texts which is like an ancient Enigma machine that unlocks many secrets of early Judaism.
The implications are devastating!
Cootabux 11 months ago
judaism is worship of YHWY but also many minor Gods. One of them is the Nahsha (snake) you never see it always behind a curtain. It represent Satan.
glower125 1 year ago
judaism is henotheistic not monotheistic.
glower125 1 year ago
In short: you are right to call the Bible a henotheistic work, because it is. It puts forth (ultimately) that YHWH (Ineffable Being) is more worthy of worship than the other gods (Physical beings). And it is correct to do so.
7greenjeans7 1 year ago
The god of the Bible is an unlimited spirit, and has no complete physical representation. "The gods" (the Elohim, Angels, the gods of all ancient polytheistic pantheons) are/were limited, "created" beings, just like you and me (we were made in their image). Confusion arises from the idea that some of these physical gods understand, and perfectly reflect, the will of the The Most High (called YHWH in the Bible) and so in a sense, become indistinguishable from/ fully one with The Most High.
7greenjeans7 1 year ago
7greenjeans7
Excuse me but YHWH was "not" the most high god! He was one of 70 sons of god, the most high being "El." (for Elohim and/or Eloha). The early Jews also called him El Elyon, and later El Shaddai.
What many Xians don't know is that the earliest Jews lived among, and as, Canaanites. When they departed to form their own, they adopted the only Pantheon they knew, the Canaanite Pantheon.
Remember the phrase "these are my chosen ones?" We now know what it means, thanks to the Ugaritic Texts
Cootabux 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@johnpecquex We Orthodox Christians (300 million Eastern Orthodox Church, 85 million Oriental Orthodox Church) don't ignore 1 Cor 8.5-6. We teach Theosis; "The Son of God became man, that we might become god" - St. Athanasius of Alexandria. We believe the Trinity is the supreme God & that, as the Bible indicates, the Saints (the dead in Christ) have achieved Theosis. We pray to the Saints & ask them to pray for us, and we venerate their images/icons. Our icons are awesome. :-)
Tov0voT 1 year ago
In a way, the Orthodox Church (e.g., 300 million Eastern Orthodox, 85 million Oriental Orthodox) is henotheistic. "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, "You are gods"'?" (John 10.34). We Orthodox Christians teach Theosis/Deification; "The Son of God became man, that we might become god" - St. Athanasius of Alexandria. We believe Saints (angels & humans), whom we pray to, have achieved Theosis, but that the Trinity is eternally superior. We freak out the Protestants :-)
Tov0voT 1 year ago
@Tov0voT I stressed "in a way ... is henotheistic". We don't view henotheism as Mormons do & it's easy to see how Protestants misunderstand us. I hear fellow Orthodox Christians use the term "worship" in regard to our praying to the Saints & venerating their icons, but we don't mean "worship" in the sense that Protestants probably think we do. Of course, anti-Trinitarians copy & paste the definition for Tritheism over the one for Trinitarianism. Terminology is tricky.
Tov0voT 1 year ago
@Tov0voT Actually, I prefer term Monolatrism over Henotheism. Latter emplies possible existance of many gods equally worthy of worship. Former indicates belief that the God you worship is mightier than the other gods. According to Bible, it appears Angels existed before creation of material universe. Did the cu attempt by Lucifer & 1/3 of the Angels result in a re-order of the Super Beings into one Super God (Yahweh/Trinity) & His Angels (lesser good gods) aligned against Demons (bad gods)?
Tov0voT 1 year ago
@Tov0voT Saint Archangel Michael belongs to the 7th lower caste of the 9 Choirs of Angels. Yet, because of his astonishing victory against Lucifer during the war in Heaven, Michael became Archistrategos, commander over ALL Angels! Lucifer used to be a member of the highest Choir in the highest of the three Hierachies (3 Choirs in each Hierachy), but his rebellion demoted him to Satan, leader of the Demons. Jesus even called us humans "gods", so, yes, I am a Monolatristic Christian Trinitarian.
Tov0voT 1 year ago
Comment removed
Tov0voT 1 year ago
Of course the ancient Isrealities weren't always monotheistic. They worshipped Canaanite gods, hence why Moses apparently got pissed and broke the first set of ten commandments. Some scholars even speculate that the Israelites were actually Canaanites, who broke off and went in a more monotheistic direction.
SkepticsUniverse2 1 year ago
You are a false prophet!!!! haha j/k good video
chris7777777777777 1 year ago
Im curious, did you grow up in church?
chris7777777777777 1 year ago
Regarding your last point about Genesis ch1. Some apologists claim that god was using the 'royal we' as in Queen Vic's - "We are not amused." when talking in the first person singular. My problem with this is that god doesn't keep this pretension up throughout the bible.
braeduin 1 year ago
..Moses made the plea to Pharoh that there was only one true God but Pharoh would not believe which ended in the death of his son. Likewise when Jesus came here he said..." No one comes unto the father except by me" stating that He and the father are one. This is unique to Christianity, along with imparting immortality to the believer when Jesus returns.
vachief 1 year ago
man's wisdom is foolishness to GOD,jah rastafari!!!!!!!!!!!
rastamusicman 2 years ago
Good stuff!
However, I think a better choice would be Monolatrism. Since my understanding of Henotheism implies that a person would switch between gods as the need arose.
I am planning a similar video. I enjoyed yours.
Intrepidman 2 years ago
Ok, there is one creator god, Yahweh. there are other 'gods' but they are not to be worshipped as gods. People were worshipping angels and heavenly council as gods. Yahweh has no equal, every being is under him.
AndrewKH85 2 years ago
Elohim comes from the word El, which means god and was also the name of the Caanite chief deity (kinda like Zeus is essentially Deus - god). It is not the plural form of El, which is Elim, but is the plural form of Eloha, which is a variant of El. The verse makes it sound very, very likely that it hails from a polytheistic time, where Elohim meant "the gods".
secularisrael 2 years ago
WOOT! a Bart Ehrman quote! I took a New Testament class under him last semester, he is amazing.
gmastalank 2 years ago
interesting video... the tossing of the book at the end was a bit much though.
revgothlove 2 years ago
The jews were polytheistic... I thought that was common knowledge? lmao
revgothlove 2 years ago
To me, it seems like the modern Christian ideas of God are based on Zeus. Let's run down the list: Bearded old-yet-youthful guy, fools around with virgin women having demigod offspring with them, zaps sinners with thunderbolts (Yahweh NEVER did that even once in the Bible), rules from a mountain, has a temper (well, so does Yahweh) and is opposed by an underworld deity.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
"it seems like the modern Christian ideas of God are based on Zeus"
As the modern Christian ideas were born under the influence of the Greco-Roman empire, rather than under the influence of Levantine empires.
And all it required was adjusting the character traits of El and the Elohim.
The part I find interesting is how the contractor of creation got written out of religious history and the mere carpenter got elevated to the supreme level.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 2 years ago
They were probably just referring to false Gods in the Bible.
Moussyed 2 years ago
Christians will tell you that the references to other gods in the OT should be interpreted as "false gods" which I can accept, I sometimes say things like "God is an ass" which should not imply that I believe in the Judeo-Christian god, just the concept. I'm more convinced by the language in Genesis implying that God is actually a pantheon, probably borrowed from or related to the Levantine Elohim.
AbbeyNormal 2 years ago
excellent video
Nowitzki25 2 years ago
about the question of deutoraonamy
It sounded more like, when he said beside me, he was meaning equal to me, on my level.
waltermh111 2 years ago
The Trinity came as an edict from Roman emperors. In order to solve some doctrine debates.
TheAtheistPaladin 2 years ago
Thanks for sharing.
Sounds like the kid saying - my dad is bigger then your dad and he'll kick your dad's butt.
Hmmm - maybe that's where we got that saying - from our ancestors. :)
atomarane 2 years ago
Gads. Who knew all this was in there? I spent decades attending *bible studies*, and at no time was there a discussion of anything of this sort. Bible studies weren't a search for the truth, they were an exercise in brainwashing. Come to think of it, over all those years there were few verses studied in depth. Also: how many *miracles* are done by jesus in the bible? Not many, really. How many times can you rehash the few miracles without getting bored and jaded? But that is what they did.
8journey8 2 years ago 9
"Who knew all this was in there?"
Thousands and thousands of people who actually studied the Bible.
As you have come to realize yourself your "Bible studies" weren't studies of the Bible, they were brainwashing and studies of apologetics whose main aim was to PREVENT you from studying the Bible.
Damn that translating the Bible into the vulgar and allowing just anybody to possess a copy.
Read Asimov on The Bible to get a start on Bible study. A bit dated but still excellent.
IsaacBickerstaffEsq 2 years ago
@IsaacBickerstaffEsq: You are right, of course. I console myself that, though I am old, at least I didn't die believing in all the foul lies. And I owe my clarity to youtube atheists...I'll be forever grateful. It has been such a gift to me to discard the confusion that I lived with as a believer..I was always able to handle the truth; I just didn't know where to look.
8journey8 2 years ago
i like to relate this to how we as humans have our team mentality, mascots and Nationalism. People formed their tribes and made their identities as people "Israelites", "Babylonians" etc.. and they needed to make their gods to compete for war moral and to justify their conquests as a group.
ericpao81 2 years ago