@MichaelFordish Engineers are not forced, they are under heavy influence (see "Manufacturing Consent" from N.Chomsky) or bribed. In both case, they need to hear from us a different voice. They must not be able to say one day "I didn't know what I was doing to others people".
There are laws in the US that limit or prohibit technology leaving the country whether it's in the form of hardware, software or me, a US citizen, physically living and working in a foreign country. Technology that has even the remotest possibility of giving a foreign government an advantage or could prevent US surveillance of a foreign government is considered a threat to US security. Not so for selling a foreign government similar technology for the purpose of oppression.
@workingclasssociety Haha.. I was just about to post that... Yes people in the government admit the USA records everything internet and phone and say the only reason they don't know everything is they lack the computing power.
I don't know much about programming, but these guys rock. Thank you. I download tor after this video. This type of threat will come to the USA eventually.
Very helpful and appreciated. I would point out that while your moral objections are valid your moral landscape is simplistic. It is not a cliche, and it is true, that methods such as lawful intercept have valid functions protecting against very real enemies. We both agree bad people exist. The problem is not the existence of lawful intercept. The problem is a misuse of law.
Hi guys. Great speaking skills. Great content. I strongly suggest you drop the really annoying hat, throw a bit of neat clothes on and watch the acceptance of your work soar. I had to put something in front of my screen to treat you seriously. Thankfully, I did because I like the project.
@wayneoutthere I disagree.I appreciate the casual (non-corporate suited) image, because it projects a feeling that they're about meaningful substance and not superficial appearances. I know you have a point that it could make a difference since many people do make those judgement calls, but I think it's quite sad if your appearance distracts from your message. The mindset of onlookers needs to change, not, those who have unusual appearances.
Try to be a drug dealer in the western world and you'll run into same kind of surveillance "problem" as people in Iran, China etc. Western world is not any better with regards to surveillance, it's just portrayed as such.
"Intel manages the surveillance and censorship for the Tunisian government and doesn't even know it!" Dose yourself on some the fucked up stuff that happens with internet censorship.
Phenomenal presentation. Super important work that has to be continued if we are to have a free and open internet. Surveillance has no place on the Internet.
I haven't watched this, and am not going to. However, the word 'tried' sits a little poorly with me as something that should be used in the title, considering that, as I had AdvOR running for a few minutes earlier, I realized that the advertizement on my page was location targeted.
it shocked me that people get killed, chopped up, and put in boxes that are sent to their family members just because they write something on the internet.
@kurtilein3 I am in Syria ,actually using tor right now , and they do much worse stuff like kidnap your sister and put a word that if you don't give yourself up they will rape her , but usually when you turned yourself they will kill you both anyway,
Thats terrible. I hope Assad will soon be out of power, and be replaced with a lesser evil. Today i heared that another high-ranking military official in Syria defected, and took many soldiers with him, they now want to fight to defend opposition protesters.
I'm in the "regular internet person" camp, but found this lecture fascinating despite unfamiliarity with the technical jargon. These guys really know their stuff, and it shows in their precise explanation. This profound talk is really pushing the envelope.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Websense does NOT support censorship. Websense has a strong position and history of action of not selling to governments that censor or would use our technology for repression. Public statements and blog posts are on our website or email me at phogan@websense.com. Websense also recently joined the Global Network Initiative, and has received considerable support from the anti-censorship community for our stance, actions, and leadership position in this area.
If you develop that kind of technology, DICTATORS WILL GET IT! They will get it, even if you dont sell it to them directly. If you make updates on this technology for the customers you accept, the bad guys will get these updates as well.
There is only one way to prevent it: Stop developing this shit. Otherwise, you will have blood on your hands and will never be able to get your hands cleaned. Updates you publish to your accepted customers kill people.
I'm definitely enjoying this talk and I can totally get behind the stuff these researchers are doing but what is Jacob Appelbaum wearing on his head? It is really distracting.
This was the most intense techspeech I have ever watched. Was at edge of my seat the whole time. On a lighter note, It really shouldn't be very hard to find bugs from Nokia software....
The point at the end on the role and responsibility of engineers in our world is critical. We must boycott and act against firms selling DPI hardware, but we also need to engage with each of theses engineers, as human beings, to help them to understand what they are doing. Because after hearing us, they will not be considered as part of responsible but also as accomplice. Dictators are not and will never be engineers to be able to do the work by themselves. Same for directors of DPI firms.
@1ConscienceSociale I think some of them (at least those who have ethics) are thinking "Well if I don't work on it, someone else will, and besides I have a family to feed...". The problem is that, especially in hard economic times, a well paying job is enough for people to do things that will contribute to great evils somewhere far off.
@Patman128 What you describe is indeed those who *don't* have ethics, or at least not enough. Specifically n hard times, you really have to think about what is your real friend, your real foes, and if you really want to serve a master who will crush you and your familly in a few years. And if you don't do it, you will be part of the problem, not part of the solution. One determined person can only change things a little, but 2 determined persons together can change the world. Don't stay alone!
@MichaelFordish Engineers are not forced, they are under heavy influence (see "Manufacturing Consent" from N.Chomsky) or bribed. In both case, they need to hear from us a different voice. They must not be able to say one day "I didn't know what I was doing to others people".
1ConscienceSociale 1 week ago
I love you guys. You released new version for Iranian. That very good news.
aliov85 3 weeks ago
The Mossad watching you, like Big Brother.
Tetsuoha 3 weeks ago
The fuck is on his head?
ironclaw92 1 month ago 9
There are laws in the US that limit or prohibit technology leaving the country whether it's in the form of hardware, software or me, a US citizen, physically living and working in a foreign country. Technology that has even the remotest possibility of giving a foreign government an advantage or could prevent US surveillance of a foreign government is considered a threat to US security. Not so for selling a foreign government similar technology for the purpose of oppression.
CanadaIndieFilm 1 month ago
This video should be on the wiki page on the SOPA blackout day
xander7b 1 month ago 2
i learned so much from this speech
workingclasssociety 1 month ago 3
Don't you think the USA records every piece of data? 41:00 mark
workingclasssociety 1 month ago
@workingclasssociety Haha.. I was just about to post that... Yes people in the government admit the USA records everything internet and phone and say the only reason they don't know everything is they lack the computing power.
abram730 1 month ago
I don't know much about programming, but these guys rock. Thank you. I download tor after this video. This type of threat will come to the USA eventually.
Keep up the good work
workingclasssociety 1 month ago
Everyone in the world should watch this video.
pspunlee 1 month ago
Very helpful and appreciated. I would point out that while your moral objections are valid your moral landscape is simplistic. It is not a cliche, and it is true, that methods such as lawful intercept have valid functions protecting against very real enemies. We both agree bad people exist. The problem is not the existence of lawful intercept. The problem is a misuse of law.
OrdinaryClay 1 month ago
Hi guys. Great speaking skills. Great content. I strongly suggest you drop the really annoying hat, throw a bit of neat clothes on and watch the acceptance of your work soar. I had to put something in front of my screen to treat you seriously. Thankfully, I did because I like the project.
wayneoutthere 1 month ago
@wayneoutthere I disagree.I appreciate the casual (non-corporate suited) image, because it projects a feeling that they're about meaningful substance and not superficial appearances. I know you have a point that it could make a difference since many people do make those judgement calls, but I think it's quite sad if your appearance distracts from your message. The mindset of onlookers needs to change, not, those who have unusual appearances.
I like the hat too, btw! :)
SikoSoft 1 month ago
@wayneoutthere black hat... is a hacker....
workingclasssociety 1 month ago
Try to be a drug dealer in the western world and you'll run into same kind of surveillance "problem" as people in Iran, China etc. Western world is not any better with regards to surveillance, it's just portrayed as such.
TheBaja2 1 month ago 2
It's like watching the Lone Gunmen from the X-Files, but considerably less goofy. Cool stuff :D
Miletos2 2 months ago
But I LOVE The Old Republic!!!
DDP117 2 months ago
I know who I'm gonna help after college...
BludnmunyProductions 2 months ago
Fuck Intel, fuck Nokia fuck Cisco!
KiloSierraAlpha 2 months ago 3
"Intel manages the surveillance and censorship for the Tunisian government and doesn't even know it!" Dose yourself on some the fucked up stuff that happens with internet censorship.
joshuaklind 2 months ago
Phenomenal presentation. Super important work that has to be continued if we are to have a free and open internet. Surveillance has no place on the Internet.
youtubasoarus 2 months ago 7
I haven't watched this, and am not going to. However, the word 'tried' sits a little poorly with me as something that should be used in the title, considering that, as I had AdvOR running for a few minutes earlier, I realized that the advertizement on my page was location targeted.
Tried, eh?
LightontheTruth 2 months ago
@LightontheTruth AdvOR is not supported by not suggested for use by The Tor Project - try again with the Tor Browser Bundle.
rorreoi 2 months ago
@rorreoi I'm PMing you.
LightontheTruth 2 months ago
This ain't a scene... it's a goddamn arms race.
PassDaMethod 2 months ago
it shocked me that people get killed, chopped up, and put in boxes that are sent to their family members just because they write something on the internet.
kurtilein3 2 months ago 5
@kurtilein3 I am in Syria ,actually using tor right now , and they do much worse stuff like kidnap your sister and put a word that if you don't give yourself up they will rape her , but usually when you turned yourself they will kill you both anyway,
2011not1984 1 month ago
@2011not1984
Thats terrible. I hope Assad will soon be out of power, and be replaced with a lesser evil. Today i heared that another high-ranking military official in Syria defected, and took many soldiers with him, they now want to fight to defend opposition protesters.
kurtilein3 1 month ago
@kurtilein3 What is really chocking is than they are able to track down the guy using technology from Nokia, Cisco and others...
TheGagarine 1 month ago
Keep up the great work guys..
flyyspit 2 months ago
Keep up the great work guys..
flyyspit 2 months ago
I'm in the "regular internet person" camp, but found this lecture fascinating despite unfamiliarity with the technical jargon. These guys really know their stuff, and it shows in their precise explanation. This profound talk is really pushing the envelope.
Timmyvirus111 2 months ago 7
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Websense does NOT support censorship. Websense has a strong position and history of action of not selling to governments that censor or would use our technology for repression. Public statements and blog posts are on our website or email me at phogan@websense.com. Websense also recently joined the Global Network Initiative, and has received considerable support from the anti-censorship community for our stance, actions, and leadership position in this area.
MsPHogan 2 months ago
@MsPHogan
If you develop that kind of technology, DICTATORS WILL GET IT! They will get it, even if you dont sell it to them directly. If you make updates on this technology for the customers you accept, the bad guys will get these updates as well.
There is only one way to prevent it: Stop developing this shit. Otherwise, you will have blood on your hands and will never be able to get your hands cleaned. Updates you publish to your accepted customers kill people.
kurtilein3 2 months ago 3
Websense is a censorship product even if @MsPHogan disputes such a statement. Read more about it on the peacefire site.
Who cares if GNI allowed Websense into their group? Websense is a surveillance and censorship system.
rorreoi 2 months ago 3
Respect
silversobe 2 months ago
Jolly good show! Awesomsauce!
TerraPosse 2 months ago
awesome! btw, is the recording Jacob Appelbaum talks about at 37:20 online somewhere?
honkybong 2 months ago
Excellent and thought provoking talk, excellent stuff.
koopification 2 months ago
I'm definitely enjoying this talk and I can totally get behind the stuff these researchers are doing but what is Jacob Appelbaum wearing on his head? It is really distracting.
bullfightonmars 2 months ago
@bullfightonmars It's a bunny balaclava. What are we fighting for if not also the right to wear silly hats?
rorreoi 2 months ago 2
Appelbaum calls out assassination of US citizen at ~1:04:15!
RidinOnPegasus 2 months ago 2
Die Vorratsdatenspeicherung gefährdet. Sonst nichts! #28c3 #piraten
Boomel 2 months ago
great stuff. i didn't think i'd view all the way through...i did.
i run a bridge relay in the cloud and a relay from my adsl line.
this really helps spread the word.
frdyness 2 months ago 2
This was the most intense techspeech I have ever watched. Was at edge of my seat the whole time. On a lighter note, It really shouldn't be very hard to find bugs from Nokia software....
T4gProd 2 months ago 40
The point at the end on the role and responsibility of engineers in our world is critical. We must boycott and act against firms selling DPI hardware, but we also need to engage with each of theses engineers, as human beings, to help them to understand what they are doing. Because after hearing us, they will not be considered as part of responsible but also as accomplice. Dictators are not and will never be engineers to be able to do the work by themselves. Same for directors of DPI firms.
1ConscienceSociale 2 months ago 44
@1ConscienceSociale I think some of them (at least those who have ethics) are thinking "Well if I don't work on it, someone else will, and besides I have a family to feed...". The problem is that, especially in hard economic times, a well paying job is enough for people to do things that will contribute to great evils somewhere far off.
Patman128 2 months ago
@Patman128 What you describe is indeed those who *don't* have ethics, or at least not enough. Specifically n hard times, you really have to think about what is your real friend, your real foes, and if you really want to serve a master who will crush you and your familly in a few years. And if you don't do it, you will be part of the problem, not part of the solution. One determined person can only change things a little, but 2 determined persons together can change the world. Don't stay alone!
1ConscienceSociale 2 months ago
@1ConscienceSociale of course not, sometimes I think the world is a giant highscool were jocks force intelligent to work for them.
MichaelFordish 1 week ago
Its funny to me .TOR is also the name of a new kind of technology my firm is working on..
JaxxBat 2 months ago
@JaxxBat
If you want people to find it easily on google, wikipedia and elsewhere, choose a different names.
kurtilein3 2 months ago
Comment removed
VainGame 2 months ago
From 01:18:02 on it was like magic in this room. AWESOME TALK
G0l3m33 2 months ago 4