Needed help!!! Kelvin's water drop generator doesn't work!!!

[MilanKarakas]

Geometry is all what is wrong (aside using wood as an insulator).

As stream of water tend to spread when 'electrified', middle (open) cans, and especially bottom two cans should be much bigger than one starting from the top.

Imagine positive droplet trying to get into already positive charged bottom container, it tend to flay away - mostly into direction of already negative charged container. So, make bottom really big, and top as narrow as possible.

Note vertical (droplet) axis well aligned.

[MilanKarakas]

@MilanKarakas Oh, it is really hard to describe in only 500 character...

[OrbitalOutpost]

The design looks all wrong to me. Basically you have to have one can on top. The drops must come out separated. The idea is that each individual drop has a + or - electron. Then you need to have 2 plates one on each side of the falling path that are wired to the opposite collecting cans below. An electrostatitc field is built up between the plates causing the drops to sort out and fall into their appropriate can. One can is + the other -.

[Longuncattr]

The biggest problem is the wood frame. Wood is very porous and can absorb water that can then form a conduction path. When dealing with high voltages, wood should be treated the same as any metal; it only insulates at low voltages.

[josephdupont]

I thought you needed drops so that the current cant follow up the stream.

and a n aluminum capacitor might help too..

[jeancolmor]

is everybody sliping the cans are scrued togather with wood witch is very similar to skin

[hintzofcolorconcepts]

You should try what God did in the thunder clouds and break the water up into droplets as they fall so the stream does not short out the charge generated.

Two separate buckets at the bottom could also collect the water and maintain the charge rather than letting them share a common basin.

[jerryberry121]

thrs wood, u cant hv any wood, it stops the electricty to flow properly for some reason!!

[soundiris]

it doesn't work because yo connected the inductor and collector cans with a wood board. yo cannot connect them like that. with any media i recommend. and specially with wood because wood is usually is a conductor for charge. and in a damp environment it really is a conductor. so leave them separately and mount them on vertical plastic or pvc tubes or rods.

[RyanAlexander87]

I doesn't work because you are pumping the water from the bottom basin to the top. This creates no potential difference and therefore no spark. If you would instead stop the bottom buckets from dripping into the basin, it would work since it allows potential difference to build.

[FCKEVRY1]

I'm no expert, but i think having the water run along PVC piping before it falls would help. I would also try reducing the stream so that it breaks up a little even before it reaches the high set of cans.

[urbannika]

I have a question. Is it ok if there are holes in the lower cans? Ow yeah, I`ve read that if the upper cans are lower, more voltage they will pruduce. And you can all so use some alumenum (I know it`s not spelled this way) pipe or something. That`s what I used!

[kubawlo]

@urbannika I think that the holes in the lower cans are interrupting the charge to collect. I also think that wood is too conductive and the negative and positive charge neutralize each other, so that there is no potentials difference. Read comments.

[rumidom]

is the top bucket grounded?

[KevinByrne2]

1. The upper cans must be placed at the point where the water streams break into drops. 2. You MUST NOT let the water flow out of the bottom cans. As the water flows out of those cans, it carries the electric charge with it. 3. You probably also should use better insulation (styrofoam or other plastic instead of wood).

[buttnakedscuba]

I would do away with the electric water pump for a gravity feed. check your resistants from coil to catch bucket then to spark gap. replace the cans and wires. that would cover it. I know you are not doing this but this comment is just for everyone to read. Dont run your kelvin battery on a concrete pad. I could not get mine to work for weeks then it dawned on me, you never charge a battery while it is on concrete.... Never. I moved mine to the yard and it worked like a champ

[vardarac]

You need to have water DROPLETS.

A stream of water works like a conducting circuit.

[nanotuber]

@vardarac Yep, I agree. With no droplets the whole water stream is earthed through the inlet pipe and any induced charge will be lost through this water "wire".

[paulo2357]

dont know if you quit on this experiment, but i think when the water goes from the little can into the reservoir also the charge goes with it, so never accumulates enough charge. also you need to precharge one of the cans. Sorry for my Engrish

[fatMusso]

Please read the my bottom post first...

I have built one of these and successfully run it over many months. Mine had a wax impregnated wooden frame, syringes for the nozzles, copper pipe for the cylinders, well insulated wires with alligator clips and used mains pressure tap water.

Hope this helps.

[fatMusso]

The reservoir or the pump at the bottom shouldn't be a problem so long as the stream falling into it from your collectors brakes into droplets as it falls, and your pump is not shorting onto any of the charged components. Ordinary tap water should work also.

[fatMusso]

Once the water is sufficiently charged it will begin to repel itself as it falls and the stream will break up into a very fine shower, becoming almost silent. You will then be able to get a spark to jump a cm or more as the charge shorts out across a gap. At that point the fine shower will become a stream again until the charge has built up afresh.

[fatMusso]

The water needs to break into droplets as it falls, the thinner you can make the stream the better it will work. Syringes for nozzles to get a very fine stream. The charge is collected in the cans and conducted to the cylinders above. It is this field which builds up in these cylinders that sorts the ions in the water into either the left or right path, determined by the charge in the cylinders. The cylinders need to be close to the nozzles so they are within the field of the cylinder below it.

[fatMusso]

Its hard to tell where your problem lies without a clear photo to examine. However, there are some things which you should bare in mind:

Both sides of the apparatus (positive and negative) need to be insulated from each other, including the frame, which should be made of an insulating and nonporous material or wax impregnated wood. If your frame is wet the charge wont build up because it is shorted out. Even a well insulated frame will collect water droplets and short out in 5 mins or so.

[deanofo]

how about you insulate the wood because it collects and absorbs water

use plastic foil

YOU ARE SHORT CIRCUITING IT AT THE BOTTOM

[daenumen]

1, the rings are possibly too large, 2. the cans may be coated, 3 YOU IDIOT!!! YOU ARE SHORT CIRCUITING IT AT THE BOTTOM!!!!

[jexphe2k10]

put the spark gap in the top can, and make sure it is clean, no oxidation build up :D

[joelp63]

Hi Kubawio,

A little comment from someone who has done a lot of electrostatic experiments...wood conducts electricity at high voltages. Try to use plastic next time for your frame.

[cochedeagua]

the cans are coated.

[jpsousa4]

IT won't work because you have a collector on the bottom which collects water from both buckets. This will equalize the charge on each of the buckets.

to make a kelvin water dropper, you need to have a reservoir on top with no pump, two spouts and large collectors which don't spill out their water.

[zakplus]

Try to reduce the diameter of the flow, it has to be like a thin wire.

[jacosci]

i just built one and it doesn't work. How can you tell if the can as a clear coating on it. Also if you used allumnium would that affect it. PLEASE RESPOND

[jacosci]

I think it has to drip fast not pour and i think your main problem is that your cars at the bottom open up. I think they don't have enough tim to charge. Seal the bottom cans

[xEternals]

I think your mistake is that you are using a pump to push the water up. The pump forcefully pushes water to each side and makes the charge be distributed randomly. What is supposed to happen is that the top cans are supposed to attract either positive or negative charged water to a certain side, but your pump will not let this happen (it will randomly push water to a side). Try putting a single container of water with two holes dripping through; that way the cans can attract the correct charge.

[zker666]

try to have a smaller can at the top.

[Nomels]

Wrong set up. The cans with the small hole need to be at the top. The ones with no bottom in two separate water containers.

[kristiankroflin]

Are the lower cans coated with some kind of plastic inside (can be translucent or white)? Did you measure the resistance between the upper left and the lower right can and betwen the upper right and the lower left one?

[kubawlo]

I don't think, that the cans are coated. I have to check resistance, but it is rather low.

[islandfireballkill]

no it is my book that the wires have to be pretty close togther

[TUUBproductions]

well u probably made it ti complicated, but yeah, try to make these corrections, that they told ya. xD

[97654821]

its your wood and you need water drop lets. put your top container ware your water droplets start

[TyKBlaze]

Spherical spark gaps should be used because they can hold more charge than wires which is essential. I think if you just change that it should work even in not ideal conditions.

[FCKEVRY1]

Your tubes should be PVC. The ones you're using are rubber and not very effective when you're trying to generate static. The bottom cans need to catch the water. Slow don't the stream.

[BEA5T4GE]

it has to drip fast, not pour.

[BuchaBe]

1. water must be dripping in the buckets.

2. The upper cans should be higher!

3. water must NOT be dripping from those two buckets (there must be no perforation etc). You cannot make this thing "closed-cycle" using that pump.

4. All paths between the two conducting systems must be completely dry (or must be air). Wood is not a good idea.

5. Spark gap should be less than 5 mm.

6. It is good idea to make spark electrodes spherical (use some kind of metal balls).

[Andery603]

Try to use deionized water.

How does the water go from bottom cans to the container with the pump, is it just holes? Charge might "escape" together with water, so try without water going back to container with the pump, you will have enough space in the bottom metal containers, to generate spark.

[numbuh468]

I think it is because you are using wood, and wood can be slightly conductive, which will short out the high voltage.

[monkenround94]

one reason it might not be working is that it can't be one long stream, it has to be separate water droplets. this prevents the charge from moving up the stream.

[kubawlo]

Well, if only I will find some spare time to buy PVC pipes and mount everything on plastic frame, I let you know what happens :)

[venomheirr]

I have built various forms of this apparatus

remember charge seperation is gradual, make these corrections and you should be good:

1.inducers(top rings) should not be mounted on wood try plastic.

2.water flow into inducers should be steady and start to break when entering inducers.

3.spark gaps should be mounted stationary and gap 1/16 1/8 apart.

4.HUMIDITY must be at 50 and under use digital to confirm

llet us know what happens :}

[kubawlo]

The water flow must break in the center of the upper cans, because there can't be any connection between upper and lower cans in one line.

[AAFREAK]

shouldn't it be dripping? I've never seen examples that say it needs a constant flow, just only drops of water, and potentially one side dripping faster than the other.

[djnoreg]

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