Just keep learning :) Mat 18:1-4 ...Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Repent ye therefore, and be CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS MAYBE BLOTTED OUT... Act 3:19.
that's why I believe in purgatory to purge us into purity I know a guy who had an nde he described it as a planet,a waiting place john 3:16 shall not PERISH your soul is eternal maybe u just rerish with the words of Christ,he said"are my words not like fire"
My friend few in the world can fathom the extent of Gods Love, you are blessed. A book to read which will help clarify your faith in HIS ability to save all mankind , ( it can be read online.).. "The restitution of all things" by Andrew Jukes. Peace
Brother, if you combine, selfrightouse pride, blind ego, hate towards those who do not believe as you do with scripture, an ignorance to scripture and spark the engine with a religiouse spirit, you get a hellwisher.
A hellwisher is one who believes that God believes that the lost deserve hell. So they themselves must also believe the lost deserve hell as well, because if they dont, then they are saying that they are more compassionate than God.
Hell is more of a cause and effect. Its like if you are in a burning building, on the 23rd floor, and someone hands you a ladder and you reject it, you are going to perish with the building. Jesus is the ladder. He didnt come to condemn you but to save you, but if you reject him, you are rejecting your only hope.
Why would God create such a incredibly fucking horrible punishment to his "most beloved creation"? If God can see the future, can't he see who is going to hell and who is going to heaven even before they even exist? If so, then why the fuck would he create the people who are dammned from the beginning and will suffer for eternity in the first place?
It doesn't make any fucking sense, the idea of a God it's just fucking stupid.
@blizard0717 God created hell to show what would happen if you disobey him. He ran the experiment to give people the geniune experience. If he put the experience in your mind falsley that would be lying and god doesnt lie. Therefore people will have experience and when in heaven choose god because they see what would happen if they dont. So then he uses the people who are dammed and suffering (or should i say going to suffer) as an example. I am an 11 year old boy who is seeking God/Allah/Jah
@barrettsquad85 But I don't get the point, because those that go to heaven where meant to go to heaven before they even came into existance. And those who suffer in hell had no chance from the very beggining.
So God already has his chosen ones, and the rest he just fucking burns them for eternity, is that what you're fucking saying?
@blizard0717 Goodmorning, I think I posted on a different video but hell is not this place where you fucking roast its just death. Death is tormenting to me. Intsead of chosing God (life) you choose Satan (Death) when ur on ur death bed i just wanna hear your last words >:). Its hard to explain remember like when you sleep and ur not dreaming. You dont even feel anything can you relate to me on that one. You just lie there dont feel anything dont hear anything dont feel that your touching anythi
@barrettsquad85 That's the fucking point dumb fuck. That what we atheist want. When we die we just want to stop existing. We don't care about heaven or hell.
I hate the way every good question that is put forward to this Youtuber is not answered. Domzdream had some pretty good questions and his reply was "I hope GOD save everyone." It's pretty pathetic.
That's wonderful, and your interpretation... However, you have no clue if it's the correct one or that you even believe in the right religion and no matter how deeply you believe it it's still a load of bullshit unless you have any kind of proof which you don't, just a weak interpretation from a book that we don't even know who wrote. To be honest, it's pathetic.
God can save everybody? Uh, yeah, right. All except those poor bastards already frying in his torture chamber of fire, who are condemned to fry there forever.
That's mercy? Use your head, boy.
If you had a creation you loved so much, would you fashion a toture chamber full of whips, chains, iron maidens and spikes to punish this creation, which you apparently love? I hope not, unless you're a sadistic fuck!
Oh, but then you'd say, this isn't how god's mind works. Ok, so what-
Yeah, but his society is based on people's fear. Hell was created by the church to instill fear in the narrow-minded. Other than hell, most would be put to the sword, or die by burning on the stake.
You say the modern dictator like Hitler or Stalin is bad? Think again, who is the bad guy here? It's the religion. Let's count how many death did the religion slaughtered for their "God"? For the christian alone is a disturbing number
@lazysunside Hi, umm ive been reading your comments and I would just like to say im not into all the Death and Gore the catholic did but what they did was wrong. Christianity (in its full African form before the white man stole the religion) is not as cruel. and god is life so i gues the catholic put to death the non believers because of this. but god granted them life on earth and death in the after life. and the catholic interfred with that
@PeaceInChristAlone 1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Come on Brother! If the ungodly will not inherit the kingdom of God, what will become of the ungodly then??
@PeaceInChristAlone how can you be 100%. god cannot save all, what about the unpardonable sin agaisn't holy spirit? or if another one saying if god forgives why would he write your words to condem you. you do know he can erase names from book of life. thus is he truly loving? how about ex xian who blaspheme knowing already smh too late for them=no forgiveness thus i believe gods not merciful. maybe am wrong as am trying to further my knowledge in all aspects of life including atheism.
@ Hell was a word that comes from the pagan word "helan" -to cover.The pagans taught on hell.Then the church took the teaching of hell &replaced the original words of "the grave" "tartarus" "gehenna" with the word hell. so when you see hell in later translations, you immediately associate it with the hell you have learned.Jesus Christ died for our sins and He conquered the grave. Rom8:23 For the wages of SIN is DEATH.The church must fall on its knees and REPENT of the teaching of the PAGAN HELL.
Well, I can guarantee you I'll never unlearn what I've learned, which is the actual truth where christianity comes from. It's not just the rebellion against that which I consider evil (no offence), but it's through information that has steered me away from it. Which steers most who actually research their religion without bias.
I'd sooner become a Buddhist, but even that's silly to me. But it's been a fun lengthy chat.
@Domzdream Did you read it? Colossians chapter 1 verses 14-22. One day every single person will be part of His glorious Kingdom of peace with no end where there will be no more suffering pain death sorrow. That is the most amazing news in the whole universe... that you are treasured and loved and the Creator has a plan to bring you back to Him. Take care. :)
@Domzdream AAAh Yes, but have you ever read the bible with the Spirit of the Living God helping you? You should ask HIM to give you understanding to what you are reading. It is a spiritual book, you need the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. Enjoy.
Maybe you should read the bible with an open mind, without bias. Try reading it from an outside point of view and everything starts to fall apart. You end up seeing how many excuses you have made before, for this 'loving' god.
Like I said, I read it 3 times, and it really is insane to me how ANYONE would call themselves moral after reading it. It tells me that they havent read the bible.
@D In ur opinion the Holy Spirit doesn't exist.That doesn't make ur belief "truth". If the Holy Spirit is true, then u will find out the moment u try to genuinely&sincerely seek.Saying the Holy Spirit doesn't exist without seeking with all ur heart isn't exactly coming to the truth.Reading a bible 100 times without His Spirit is meaningless &the words are dead.He (Jesus) is the Spirit of all life.U need Him to show u HIS Word.Just ask Him from ur heart to show u.No strings attached :D
I used to be a heavy christian in my youth. And by the way, to all you dumb-ass christians out there (not you perse), catholics are also chrisitians, duh!
I probably was a bigger believer that even you were. Just saying. I was heavy into it.
I questioned why I never felt anything supernatural. Ever! I had a shit load of faith. Bigger than a mustard seed. I prayed and prayed. Nothing answered. No spirit. nor god or anything supernatural. I prayed harder, and longer. Nothing.
Because there's nothing there dude. Again, if you remove bias, if you consider logic. I know it's a stretch for you christians, but...try. Think about it. If you need faith in something to be real, why would it be true. If you had knowledge, then you wouldnt need faith, would you? ANy rational thinker KNOWS this.
You'd think that an almighty god would psychically project his word and his existence into every mind in the world, all at once, rmoving ANY kind-
@ If u truly want to know the Living God, then ask Him to show u your HEART the way He sees it.Then ask Him to heal u from the inside out. U cant "fool" God. U cant hoodwink Him by looking for "proof" by testing Him like the thief on the cross who said "if u really are who u say you are, then get off the cross and take me down too" (paraphrasing). It is a HEART issue not a "head" issue. Your heart must desperately want Him.If you're looking for a magician, then you're looking in the wrong place.
Now. You probably know where Im going with this....
If you have given birth to a child, (maybe you have a child already), if this child didnt love you, would you torture it until it said that it did love you? We're talking about putting it inside an oven for an hour or two, hearing it's screams and cries. Would you do this?!
@D :) I dont know how to tell u this,without doing a huge study with u about the truth of God's Word, but after the longest study I think I have ever done,I have found out, NOWHERE in the bible does God send people to a place called hell.Hell was a pagan belief that bled into the church when early translators REPLACED the words of GRAVE,GEHENNA,TARTARUS with this word "hell" which the majority of believers STILL BELIEVE.When you read the scriptures in their true translation,there is NO HELL.
Riiiiight. You obviously havent heard of google. I strongly suggest this. I found this in five seconds, so I'll spare you your I quote ' longest study you've ever done', right here. Let me shed some light upon you.
Peter 2:4-5 says, "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment."
Mark 9:46 describes hell as: "Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."
Matthew 8:12 says, "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Isaiah 66:24 reads: "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
Daniel 12:2 describes the duration of hell: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
Luke 12:5 says, "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."
Mark 9:47 says, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell."
Matthew 23:33 reads: "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"
I think you get my point after all that schooling. Read your bible!!!!
And by the way, you still havent answered my question I asked you to answer.
@ Those words "hell". Like I said, that word "hell" is NOT the original Greek. There is good teaching on this from a website called "Gods plan for All". So take a look and it goes into minute detail of the origin of the TEACHING of hell, the word hell, and the WORDS "hell" replaced - it goes into these scriptures too. I did answer your question,I told you Hell is NOT REAL.That is my answer.But YOU need to get to the bottom of this subject and find out once&for all for yourself, the truth.
I knew we'd side track along this pathway. Semantics.
You sound like a christian apologist at the moment. If you say the bible is left to interpretation, then pretty much most of can be subjectively interpreted. No, it's silly.
Think about it. Why would a creator of galaxies want to introduce the his word into a book (which even christians admit) was edited and re edited many many times over, to be introduced to illiterate goat herders who didnt even know what a -
-a metaphor was, in the middle of a little place called Israel. Ultimately, leaving this bible so complex (which is also by the way filled with contradictions), to be interpreted in many ways. Come on. It's dumb. Think about it! You'd think that this almighty creator would psychically project his true word into every single mind in the world, leaving no doubt that he's the one true god. But no.
@Domzdream Seek and ye shall find, Knock and the door will open. You just enjoy mocking and have no real genuine intentions. It will all change when the Lord begins to call your heart. Until then, all this, the bible, Spirit of God, Jesus, heaven, it will all be meaningless and a subject for you to ridicule. Take care, I said what was needed to be said. The rest is up to Yahweh. Bye. ;)
I'm not mocking you on purpose. Im not getting anything out of this obviously. But when you say stupid shit like this, imposing your retarded religion on me, it gets really irritating.
I know theists have little imagination at all. But try imagining this same scenario right back atcha.
(ahem...)
you will hopefully realize that all this brainwashed nonsense which is intelectually void of any logic or evidence, is just that- nonsense. And that hopefully someday you will live a -
-a better, more productive life, with better morals. And hopefully (actually) your reading the bible and not cherry picking the fuzzy wuzzy bits will make you realise that this book is twisted and evil and should be ONLY used as a black poster of what not to do and how to NOT treat others with utter rejection.
There.
Yea, take care, and I hope you find a way out of this evil cult. Bye.
Because there's nothing there. I mean, this is why atheists come across as intellectually arrgogant. But one cannot help but feel superior to a thinking of this kind. This childishness. Personally, I'm not that smart really. But even I know what's silly and what is not. And thanks to reading the bible, and researching where christianity came from, I left that evil and false crap behind.
Research your faith and you'll see. Open your eyes!
@D In ur opinion nothing is there, again, that's not exactly truth. U assume nothing is there without even asking to see? Have u ever asked out of your heart? Anyhow, you have the freedom to believe what you like, truth or not. And I do too. I will say that I have had a supernatural encounter with the Living God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and I have been supernaturally changed from the inside out. That alone is testament to a Living God - to ME because it's REAL evidence of Him to me PERSONALLY.
As I mentioned, I asked and asked, and prayed and prayed, and nothing in any way was there, other than personal fluffy emotions perhapse. But that's just self-hypnosis right there.
What supernatural actions have you witnessed outside of personal experience like happiness, or upliftment. Because those are just emotions which are triggered by chemicals to the brain. really simple stuff if yoiu read about it.
@D When Jesus Christ poured out His Spirit upon me, I was overcome with grief and I wept uncontrolably for hours. The only way I can describe it, is that He allowed me to "FEEL" my sins &rebellion and it was just awful BUT at the same time, His LOVE swallowed me up.His love was stronger for me than my pain that I was feeling for all the evil things I had thought, done, and spoken.The next day EVERYTHING changed.JOY was pouring out of me.His Spirit was in me.I was born again by His Spirit.
@Domzdream ::: If you want to get the real story on how hells work, download (free) the book "A Wanderer in the Spirit Lands". It will curdle your hair. No fire. Just darkness and misery.
If you're a christian, or any other kind of cult following, er...sorry...religion (slip of the tongue there),
you're to believe in Balrogs and demons of hell, buah-haha!
Oh. And cherrubs. It's in the bible.
LIke I asked theists in general before. Is there gravity in hell? Is there air? There MUST be air, otherwise fire wouldnt burn. These are typical elements of the REAL world. Real physics.
@Domzdream ::: It is irrational to believe the bible, a mishmash of ancient religious writings, is the 'word of God'. I only believe anything in the bible, if the truth of it is self-evident.
In the afterlife, gravity does not matter. Your travel is by direct thought, and that is what causes your stability, not gravity. You will find a different set of physics at work in the afterlife, so your questions are without merit. "Life in the World Unseen" (free download) would give you some insight.
sir, you are absolutely correct. hell is a sixth century roman catholic teaching used to milk the masses out of their possessions. why is it that the teaching of hell is not contained in the scriptures? answer: when the scriptures were written there was no catholic church. or ask yourself, can hell be cast into hell?
Get the book The Aqua Oracle by Ty Anderson, it is the best book on Universalism I have ever read. You can find it at amazon. Check out the chapter titles of this book, very intense.
Dude the wage of sin is death....what is death? Death is separation from God. We have mercy now every day you and I exist to spread the Gospel. Africa is being saved right now. My friend was called out of Atheism by God. No Gospel. God is calling people today all over. Jesus died for all the have the option to believe. To make a choice. For people to not worry about that choice is to say all the prophets of the Bible from Elijah to Paul died for nothing. Their message was to turn to God.
@phillip78 You error again. The earliest church father who was a universalist was Origen. Read the Ante-Nicene Fathers. I can give you countless quotes of them speaking of Hell, it's reality and it's eternal punishment of the wicked. Even Justin Martyr makes a comparison flatly rejecting aion as a Platonic "Long age (thousand years) punishment, but that it was eternal. You need to stop reading websites and anemic articles and do some scholarly work.
@ronathanedwards "You error again" and "and do scholarly work" - Let your persuasive points do the talking, these comments suggest to the reader you are not confident in your arguments.
@lightmane321 This bible teacher, Greg Boyd, is trying to reconcile the OT God of Violence with the revelation of Jesus and his teachings on Non-Violence. I find some of Greg's ideas helpful, this is one of his blog entries - w w w.gregboyd.org/blog/jesus-repudiation-of-old-testament-violence // let me know if you have some video links etc on this topic, am looking for more understanding on this seeming contradiction, appreciate any input on this, ta, j
LOL Greg Boyd.... There is NO DIFFERENCE between the O.T. God and the N.T. God.... He saved the same way, through faith and He HATES SIN and the SINNER unless by His grace He causes them to be born again...
@ronathanedwards There is No Difference. To me it reads as if there is a difference. The Voilent God (Jesus) of the OT seems not to be the dont-take-up-arms / go-to-the-cross God (Jesus) of the NT.
Psalm 137:9 = Child Abuse
So it must be my intrepretation that is incomplete... Am looking for more understand on this topic.
@ronathanedwards Hi, from reading the last 10 pages of posts between you and @Lightmane321 / @phillip78, I feel sad that you express a particularly low view of the goodness of people.
Is this theoritical, or do you distrust people's goodness?
Does this belief support you?
Ignore my questions if appropriate, but would be interested to hear, if you wanted to share, j
@tintinworld NO ONE is good but God... Jesus said that, take it up with him. No one seeks God, no not one. There is none righteous, not one. It isn't a low view of man, but a correct one. EVERYTHING done without faith (in Christ) IS SIN. That's the Biblical/explicit anthropology.
@ronathanedwards So, it's theorticial for you, as you have answered using concepts rather than first person experience. I was & am interested in hearing your heart.
@phillip78 Nope you didn't, the KJV translators unfortunately didn't have the best manuscripts for this verse. They used what they had (which is 99% VERY good) but they made a mistake here because in P40, Aleph, B,C it reads eis pantas (for all) but then, they had in the Vulgate epi pantas without the eis pantas..so they put BOTH in! It is a manuscript redundancy. Secondly it is a substantival, therefore eis pantas shouldn't have been added. The Alexandrian texts are correct. It's just "for all"
@ronathanedwards CORRECTION: "EPI pantas" shouldn't have been added. There is extremely strong evidence and Very strong grammatical evidence that it should properly be translated a substantival "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ [for all who believe].
You build your doctrines on bad exegesis and poor translation errors. Yet if you would study a little bit, you would have known about the textual variance in the verse before you start using it as a proof text....
...Do we really believe in "times eternal." What does "time," let along "timeS" have to do with "eternity?"And as Paul speaks of the "revelation" of this secret, how could it EVER be revealed if it was kept secret ‘ETERNALLY?’ Do you not see a problem—a CONTRADICTION in all of this?
@phillip78 You don't understand that aionios can be limited or "closed" depending on the word that is used with it, i.e. kronos. There is not contradiction, just understanding the Greek and how they used it, but if you don't know Greek, you are only listening and parroting others.
@ronathanedwards aion can mean limited but can also mean eternal? LOL So in your math class 2+2 can sometimes equal 4 but other times it can mean 5 or a billion? Us universalist translate aion consistantly, you like to pick and choose when it is a age, and when it doesn't just so long as it fits yur agenda. Lightmane exposes calvinisn for what it is - satanic. I get the feeling you think whoever responds last wins. GROW UP. IM DONE WITH YOU. You are a reprobate.
@phillip78 Are you "blind" to the fact words change depending on what other words go with them? - My last sentence is an example, it doesn't mean "you can't see" but you are unaware or uninformed or don't understand... ainios is also a completely different word than aion and is used differently. Lighmane doesn't expose nothing but strawmen. His ignorance doesn't produce anything academically challenging whatsoever.
I'm reprobate? So... I'll still get to heaven! Right? So, why does it matter?
@phillip78 Yeah, I'm going to go hang out with some of the great saints that will be there, you know.... Hitler, Stalin, Dahmer, Attilah the Hun and Judas... maybe even have some time to talk to Satan?
@phillip78 Actually he's "the shining/beautiful one" the master deceiver. He makes everybody think "it's all good" "do what thou wilt" is the Satanist's motto.... Funny, that's basically the idea of most cults... it's all going to be good, nobody's going to suffer, we are all going to be one happy family! ... Yeah... I know Satan when I here him, I wish you did.
@phillip78 Only Satan says "Did God REALLY Say"? Like "Did God REALLY Say there is going to be an eternal hell?... NO... of coarse there won't be... don't be afraid! It's going to turn out great for everyone!" ... Yeah... THAT doesn't sound like Satan at all... LOL
@ronathanedwards Did God say to Adam and Eve in tue garden that for eating of the fruit they shall surely suffer with life of eternal torment f Did God say they shall DIE? YOU are speaking the same lie the serpet told in the garden "you shall NOT surely die" You are a snake.
@phillip78 They spiritually died that day. Still can't get over the embarrassing position that you are in? You are on the side of ALL the cults and heretics? Who's the deceived one? Go ahead and side with the Mormons, JW's Atheists (for that matter) Baihi, Hindu, Buddhists.. oh yeah... you're in great company.... NOT...
@ronathanedwards Id rather die than to worship this thug of a low life god you worship. And it still doesn't negate the fact that God told them they shall DIE!!! God did not tell them they would suffer eternal torment. Not only THAT it is also plain in Ro 6:23. Sin brings death, not life. You are still speaking the same lie in the garden. You are a snake.
BTW: Id rather be a Muslim than a Calvinist. Calvinism is the top of the list when t comes to evil doctrines.
@phillip78 It says the DAY they sin they DIE. They died spiritually. No, the only snake here is the one trying to deceive people in thinking that there isn't a place that they will suffer, in order to get them there in reality.....
You really don't understand any doctrine do you? Take some theology classes... that is unless you are not out of High school yet... considering your tautological arguments, maybe you are a high schooler...
@ronathanedwards No interested in schools that give their man made theories, I'll stick with the facts. "It says the DAY they sin they DIE." It doesn't say that, and you just told me below that they die spiritually, now your telling me they die the same day? Physically? Well OBVIOUSLY NO. So it is spiritually. The correct translation is they will be DYING. Besides that, that has not a thing to do with the FACT that the wages of sin is DEATH, not life.
@ronathanedwards And what does your comment have anything to do with me telling you to go ask Michael Servetus? You are dodging my comments. Typical for smeone like you. Enjoy worshiping this thug of a god you server.
@phillip78 If you are going to put the blame of Servetus on Calvin, you've been reading BY FAR nothing but tabloid trash only written to make money off the ignorant. Really, can you actually do ANY scholarly work? Try reading Schaff's "History of the Church" ...It's the standard work...
@ronathanedwards History of the church? If Hell was real, why did the first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian doctrine ever given to the world by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, contain the tenet of universal salvation? If Hell was real, why did not a single Christian writer of the first 3 centuries declare universalism as a heresy? hummm. I got your history.
@ronathanedwards If Hell was real, how is it that the most prominent universalists of the early church were born into Christian families and were most highly revered by their peers while those who advocated Hell came from paganism and confessed they were among the vilest? Tertullian and Augustine.
@ronathanedwards If hell is real, why was it not until the 6th century when Justinian, a half-pagan emperor, tried to make universalism a heresy? Interestingly, most historians will acknowledge that Justinian's reign was among the MOST cruel and ruthless. humm I got your history. Only those who stoop down to insults like you just did with saying "unless you are not out of High school yet" are losing control of what they believe. I'm a LOT older than you think.
@phillip78 You are incorrect. It wasn't BECAUSE of Justinian, He only officially acknowledged the error of the Origen school based on the history of the Church's teaching from it's inception. Epiphanius, Jerome, Augustine all the way back to Tertullian,Justin Martyr and Irenaeus. Martyr and Irenaeus had psychological speculations, but there doctrinal references plainly speak of eternal punishment, LONG before Origen, and MUCH longer before Justinian.
@ronathanedwards I totally disagree. If Hell is real, why did the early church appoint an avowed universalist as the President of the second council of the church in Constantinople in the fourth century? (Gregory Nazianzen, 325-381) If hell is real, why did Church leaders as late as the fourth century AD acknowledge that the majority of Christians believed in the salvation of all mankind? These are facts, not speculation.
@phillip78 Yes, the Nestorians and Gregory were of the eastern (heavily Greek philosophically influenced) church and were of the school of.... ORIGEN... But the West heavily disregarded their view, mostly because it was NOT TAUGHT in the early church and it was not orthodox. You can use the same argument concerning Arianism also.... the East believed that Jesus wasn't always divine also? Does that prove your point?
@ronathanedwards If Hell is real and found in the original Greek manuscripts of the Bible, why is it that it was primarily those church leaders who either couldn't read Greek (Minucius Felix, Tertullian), or hated Greek as in the case of Augustine, that the doctrine of Hell was advocated? Those early church leaders familiar with the Greek and Hebrew (the original languages of the Bible) saw universal salvation in those texts................
@phillip78 Those who advocated Hell got it from the Latin, NOT from the original Greek and Hebrew. Who would more likely be correct--those who could read the original languages of the Bible or those who read a Latin translation made by one man (Jerome)?
... and it is coming unto all, as well as to all believers, because there is no difference" between the process of salvation which is coming to all sinners, as well as "all who believe". All will be judged, either now in this life, or else they will be judged in the lake of fire, called "the second death". "There is no difference, because there is but one event which destroys the old man in present believers
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL and upon all them that believe: FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. There it is. "There is no difference" between "all...and all them that believe". So much for the heresy of Calvin that "all" here means only "all kinds of men".
@phillip78 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction Ro 3:22.
You added: "unto all and". Don't you know it's dangerous to add to God's Word. There is no distinction between Jew or Greek (gentiles, the WORLD). Read the previous two chapters, it might help you out a little. Chapter One (meaning everyone) Chapter two concerns the Jews because they would think ch. 1 is just about the gentiles, chapter three raps up 1 and 2. You err.
@ronathanedwards no you add to the word saying "all kinds" don't even go there. You onow wh you ate and i knw who i am l. And lightmane summed up the calvinist doctrin with his last statement. . ABSURD.
@phillip78 I didn't "ADD" to the Scripture, I explained what the scripture said. YOU however ADDED actual words to the scripture when you quoted it... big difference... go to school.
@ronathanedwards OH YES YOU DID ADD TO THE WORD. You make 1 tim 2:4 say who will have all kinds of men to be saved. Therefore you added t the word. And I dont need a school that teaches a bun h of theories. You can keep your theories to yourself. I'm pnpy interested in facts. Now move along and go play your games of theories, fiction.
So with that you teach with this hell dogma, the fall of Adam will be more powerful than the work of the cross? Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation [That's is Adam's trangression]; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Your telling me that the fall of Adam will be more successful than what Jesus did on the cross?
@phillip78 It's not talking about "success" it is talking about effect. Jesus' atonement is effective for those whom He died for. Adam's sin 100% effected many, Jesus' atonement is 100% effective for the many. I would hope that if you enjoy theology, I would suggest that you take some classes, maybe even Greek.
@ronathanedwards So you're telling me that Adam's transgression REALLY brought down every single person, but the work of cross does not mean all in Ro 5;18???
@ronathanedwards AND the success, is the same thing as the effect. The "EFFECT" of the cross will bring salvation for everyone. You are fighting the scriptures to uphold eternal torment.
continuing... if not was born the man that ['THAT MAN' is Judas. "Good were it for Jesus if JUDAS had not been born," not "Good were it for JUDAS if Judas had not been born]" (Matt. 26:24).
@phillip78 Phillip do you know grammar? but woe to that man (εκεινος)[Judas] by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man (εκεινος) [Judas] if he [Judas] had not been born. First of all Matthew isn't going to refer to the Christ in a demonstrative fashion. Secondly "that" man refers to Judas in the first phrase and then the demonstrative is used again in the second phrase. It's a DIRECT link to Judas. Before you start making grammatical judgments, learn grammar.
@ronathanedwards through whom the Son of the man is delivered up; good it was to Him [REMEMBER 'Him' is Jesus] if not was born the man that ['THAT MAN' is Judas. "Good were it for Jesus if JUDAS had not been born," not "Good were it for JUDAS if Judas had not been born]" (Matt. 26:24). Got that? Good!
@phillip78 Is what your writing directed towards me??? for if it is, I'll be glad to clear up your straw-manned arguments, with what I actually believe from Scripture.
@phillip78 God is "simple". He Loves ALL of His attributes and does not sacrifice any of them for the sake of any other. He uses ALL of His attributes in EVERY action. A simple "God is Love" isn't an answer and is an answer for everything because in that Love, it is also Just, Holy, and righteous. Those who justify the wicked are an abomination....
@ronathanedwards I am in no way justifying the wicked. The wicked will have their day in court, and be judged. However through this JUDGMENT they will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS Isa 26:9
@phillip78 Yes, they will learn of God's righteousness, that doesn't mean that they accept it, they will learn of His righteousness by His righteous judgement, which is eternal punishment. That is God honoring and loving His Holiness and Justice. You don't understand the verse, you are only implying your false presuppositions.
@ronathanedwards If God is "consistent" in ALL of His attributes, then He WILL save everyone. If He doesn't, then He won't be consistent in all of them. If He does, He will show mercy AND justice for all, but Mercy will "triumph" over justice, as the scriptures declare. Would you like to see all the verses in the OT which PROVE that God will save all people in all nations? It's very clear, once you see the plain scriptures, yet my calvinist & arminian friends simply can't see it. Weird.
@Lightmane321 Trying to get a Calvinist to see it is like trying to squeeze blood out of an onion. Even you don't know it but I have studied this for 10 years now. A lot of ppl think this is just something I have recently discovered. They are so wrong in thinking a few comments will change all that.
@phillip78 Yes, allot of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons have studied their "topics" for more than you have studied theirs, yet they only study what their itching ears want to hear. You, my friend need to go take some theology classes and stop studying internet theolofilth.
@ronathanedwards I need to take THEOLOGY classes? NO thank you. I don't need classes that teach THEORIES. I will settle for my teacher - The Holy Spirit. ;) And to "LEARN TO BE RIGHTEOUS" Is to BE righteous, and if you have studied Greek for ONLY 2 years, I have a lot more on you man. Do you fervently PRAY for the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:1) Do you pray in FAITH , nothing doubting? (James 1:6) Are you aware, "that whatsoever is not of faith is sin?" -- (Rom 14:23)
@phillip78 Can you not read properly? Greek for 2 years ADVANCED Greek for 2 years and NT Greek Survey for 3 years.... that equals SEVEN. I'm afraid your reading of my posts are the way you read Scripture... poorly. U have more than me? But U use interlinears? LOL
To learn the righteousness of God, is NOT the same as to learn TO BE righteous, another grammar error. Sorry, you're completely wrong. You don't need teachers, huh? God gave the church teachers, guess you didn't read that scripture.
@ronathanedwards Not so. If that were the case, the phrase "for there is no difference" would have no contrast at all. How would that then read? '... by faith of Jesus Christ unto all kinds of people, and upon all kinds of people, who believe, for there is no difference'?The words "kinds of people" are not in the Greek and are not the point being made.What is the point being made is that "The righteousness of God is by the faith of Jesus Christ,
@phillip78 I am fluent in Greek and have allot of study in the evolution of etymology of Greek. That is why I KNOW that Hell is eternal, and that is WHY you are misguided about the topic and of scripture and the character of God. It really is sad when people are to proud to go to school, yet they want to think they are authorities.
@ronathanedwards 2 Thes. 2:16"…and has given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace." "Console" is defined as, "To allay sorrow or grief of." "Hope" is defined as, "To wish for something with expectations of its fulfillment." Now then, according to this inane KJV translation of this verse, just how long are we going to have our "SORROW AND GRIEF ALLAYED?" How long must we "HOPE" before we have our hope fulfilled? For ALL ETERNITY? Nonsense.
@ronathanedwards Rom. 16:25"…according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world [Gk: aionios] began." Well check this bit of translating genius out. We have the ADJECTIVE word "aionios" and the KJV translators changed it to a NOUN, "world."Well guess what? The word "world" (kosmos) is not found in this verse, furthermore, neither is the word "began." The Greek reads:"…in times eonian." ...
God cannot save all men from hell because it does not exist. God saved us all from eternal sleep in the grave.
SwordofManticorE 2 weeks ago
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Just keep learning :) Mat 18:1-4 ...Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, EXCEPT YE BE CONVERTED, AND BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL NOT ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Repent ye therefore, and be CONVERTED, THAT YOUR SINS MAYBE BLOTTED OUT... Act 3:19.
eternityeverlasting1 1 day ago
that's why I believe in purgatory to purge us into purity I know a guy who had an nde he described it as a planet,a waiting place john 3:16 shall not PERISH your soul is eternal maybe u just rerish with the words of Christ,he said"are my words not like fire"
deanrps 2 months ago
Great video Brother.
Keep preaching the love of God..
HealthyCabbie 3 months ago
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They shall not inherit the kingdom of God...are you saying the kingdom of God is heaven?
ShirleyCoralineJones 3 months ago
My friend few in the world can fathom the extent of Gods Love, you are blessed. A book to read which will help clarify your faith in HIS ability to save all mankind , ( it can be read online.).. "The restitution of all things" by Andrew Jukes. Peace
jotogotube2 3 months ago
Brother, if you combine, selfrightouse pride, blind ego, hate towards those who do not believe as you do with scripture, an ignorance to scripture and spark the engine with a religiouse spirit, you get a hellwisher.
A hellwisher is one who believes that God believes that the lost deserve hell. So they themselves must also believe the lost deserve hell as well, because if they dont, then they are saying that they are more compassionate than God.
SwordofManticorE 4 months ago
Thumbs down! Lies always get a thumbs down!
N2truth7 5 months ago
@MrNickape
That's because I deal with reality, and evidence. It's around us at infinite amounts. Theists are EASY to refute.
Domzdream 5 months ago
If you notice his username, ppl like this are the type of people who would murder for god lol jus sayin this dude is ridiculous
ScorchArtist 6 months ago
Hell is more of a cause and effect. Its like if you are in a burning building, on the 23rd floor, and someone hands you a ladder and you reject it, you are going to perish with the building. Jesus is the ladder. He didnt come to condemn you but to save you, but if you reject him, you are rejecting your only hope.
richardcoleman82 6 months ago
The idea of hell doesn't make any fucking sense.
Why would God create such a incredibly fucking horrible punishment to his "most beloved creation"? If God can see the future, can't he see who is going to hell and who is going to heaven even before they even exist? If so, then why the fuck would he create the people who are dammned from the beginning and will suffer for eternity in the first place?
It doesn't make any fucking sense, the idea of a God it's just fucking stupid.
blizard0717 6 months ago
@blizard0717 God created hell to show what would happen if you disobey him. He ran the experiment to give people the geniune experience. If he put the experience in your mind falsley that would be lying and god doesnt lie. Therefore people will have experience and when in heaven choose god because they see what would happen if they dont. So then he uses the people who are dammed and suffering (or should i say going to suffer) as an example. I am an 11 year old boy who is seeking God/Allah/Jah
barrettsquad85 6 months ago
@barrettsquad85 But I don't get the point, because those that go to heaven where meant to go to heaven before they even came into existance. And those who suffer in hell had no chance from the very beggining.
So God already has his chosen ones, and the rest he just fucking burns them for eternity, is that what you're fucking saying?
blizard0717 6 months ago
@blizard0717 Goodmorning, I think I posted on a different video but hell is not this place where you fucking roast its just death. Death is tormenting to me. Intsead of chosing God (life) you choose Satan (Death) when ur on ur death bed i just wanna hear your last words >:). Its hard to explain remember like when you sleep and ur not dreaming. You dont even feel anything can you relate to me on that one. You just lie there dont feel anything dont hear anything dont feel that your touching anythi
barrettsquad85 6 months ago
@barrettsquad85 Not only you're not getting my point, but you're also replying the most stupid shit ever.
When I am in my death bed? Dude... The least that I will be thinking about at that point is senseless shit like a deity.
When you sleep and do not dream? Well that's the best feeling ever, because you don't feel anything. That's paradise to me.
blizard0717 6 months ago
@blizard0717 Ok so how would you like it one day you went to sleep and couldnt wake up and have no clue what waking up is mofo?
barrettsquad85 6 months ago
@barrettsquad85 How the hell would I know? I'm not thinking anything right? So how the fuck would I know I'm sleeping?
That question is extremely stupid
blizard0717 6 months ago
@blizard0717 You wont know anything dickhead you wont even fucking exist so how you feel bout dat
barrettsquad85 6 months ago
@barrettsquad85 That's the fucking point dumb fuck. That what we atheist want. When we die we just want to stop existing. We don't care about heaven or hell.
blizard0717 6 months ago
I hate the way every good question that is put forward to this Youtuber is not answered. Domzdream had some pretty good questions and his reply was "I hope GOD save everyone." It's pretty pathetic.
ashmanaman13 6 months ago
That's wonderful, and your interpretation... However, you have no clue if it's the correct one or that you even believe in the right religion and no matter how deeply you believe it it's still a load of bullshit unless you have any kind of proof which you don't, just a weak interpretation from a book that we don't even know who wrote. To be honest, it's pathetic.
XChillX42 6 months ago
-what you're saying is you're more moral than your god. Essentially that is it.
Come on!
Use your head.
What you believe in ya poor dope, is evil and twisted. Pull your head out of your arse and think!
Domzdream 6 months ago
Oh, bullshit!
God can save everybody? Uh, yeah, right. All except those poor bastards already frying in his torture chamber of fire, who are condemned to fry there forever.
That's mercy? Use your head, boy.
If you had a creation you loved so much, would you fashion a toture chamber full of whips, chains, iron maidens and spikes to punish this creation, which you apparently love? I hope not, unless you're a sadistic fuck!
Oh, but then you'd say, this isn't how god's mind works. Ok, so what-
Domzdream 6 months ago
@Domzdream GOD is the most Gracious and the most Merciful. God is love.
PeaceInChristAlone 6 months ago
@PeaceInChristAlone
Why do you worship god?
The most popular answer would be my mother forced me to go to church as a child who is unable to choose.
Why do she worship god?
Because her family forced her to go to church as a child who is unable to choose.
Who worship God in the first place?
Some guy who made a holy order to control people.
Then explain why a mass majority of the people leaves their pagan faith and worship God?
They have to worship God otherwise they'll be killed.
lazysunside 6 months ago
@PeaceInChristAlone Part 2:
God is all loving and forgiving.
Yeah, but his society is based on people's fear. Hell was created by the church to instill fear in the narrow-minded. Other than hell, most would be put to the sword, or die by burning on the stake.
You say the modern dictator like Hitler or Stalin is bad? Think again, who is the bad guy here? It's the religion. Let's count how many death did the religion slaughtered for their "God"? For the christian alone is a disturbing number
lazysunside 6 months ago
@PeaceInChristAlone Part 3:
How many pagan people have to die when christianity was found?
How many philosopher, woman activist, alchemist, heretics, innocent people who have to die in the inquisition?
How many innocent people have to die in the Crusade?
How many native American have to die to be converted?
How many soldiers have to die for the religious war? (Catholic vs Protestant)
Now let's count the other religion. You do me the honor, youtubers.
lazysunside 6 months ago
@lazysunside Hi, umm ive been reading your comments and I would just like to say im not into all the Death and Gore the catholic did but what they did was wrong. Christianity (in its full African form before the white man stole the religion) is not as cruel. and god is life so i gues the catholic put to death the non believers because of this. but god granted them life on earth and death in the after life. and the catholic interfred with that
barrettsquad85 6 months ago
@PeaceInChristAlone
Did you even read what I wrote about jesus...er....god? Read it again. Then get back to me.
And form a proper argument in response to what I wrote because all you'll get in return so far is 'naa-ah. no he isn't'.
Domzdream 6 months ago
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@PeaceInChristAlone 1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Come on Brother! If the ungodly will not inherit the kingdom of God, what will become of the ungodly then??
TheFurthertruth 3 months ago
@PeaceInChristAlone how can you be 100%. god cannot save all, what about the unpardonable sin agaisn't holy spirit? or if another one saying if god forgives why would he write your words to condem you. you do know he can erase names from book of life. thus is he truly loving? how about ex xian who blaspheme knowing already smh too late for them=no forgiveness thus i believe gods not merciful. maybe am wrong as am trying to further my knowledge in all aspects of life including atheism.
MegaGangstaparadise 3 months ago
@ Hell was a word that comes from the pagan word "helan" -to cover.The pagans taught on hell.Then the church took the teaching of hell &replaced the original words of "the grave" "tartarus" "gehenna" with the word hell. so when you see hell in later translations, you immediately associate it with the hell you have learned.Jesus Christ died for our sins and He conquered the grave. Rom8:23 For the wages of SIN is DEATH.The church must fall on its knees and REPENT of the teaching of the PAGAN HELL.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Hell yeah!
Domzdream 4 months ago
@Domzdream One day it will matter to you. take care.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Well, I can guarantee you I'll never unlearn what I've learned, which is the actual truth where christianity comes from. It's not just the rebellion against that which I consider evil (no offence), but it's through information that has steered me away from it. Which steers most who actually research their religion without bias.
I'd sooner become a Buddhist, but even that's silly to me. But it's been a fun lengthy chat.
You take care also.
See ya.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@Domzdream Col 1 14-22 is for you :)
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
hmm?
I dont get it.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@Domzdream Did you read it? Colossians chapter 1 verses 14-22. One day every single person will be part of His glorious Kingdom of peace with no end where there will be no more suffering pain death sorrow. That is the most amazing news in the whole universe... that you are treasured and loved and the Creator has a plan to bring you back to Him. Take care. :)
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
I read the bible 3 times.
I'm an atheist thanks to it. Actually, I'm an anti-theist, but still.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@Domzdream AAAh Yes, but have you ever read the bible with the Spirit of the Living God helping you? You should ask HIM to give you understanding to what you are reading. It is a spiritual book, you need the Holy Spirit to give you understanding. Enjoy.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
I can't because it doesnt exist.
Maybe you should read the bible with an open mind, without bias. Try reading it from an outside point of view and everything starts to fall apart. You end up seeing how many excuses you have made before, for this 'loving' god.
Like I said, I read it 3 times, and it really is insane to me how ANYONE would call themselves moral after reading it. It tells me that they havent read the bible.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@D In ur opinion the Holy Spirit doesn't exist.That doesn't make ur belief "truth". If the Holy Spirit is true, then u will find out the moment u try to genuinely&sincerely seek.Saying the Holy Spirit doesn't exist without seeking with all ur heart isn't exactly coming to the truth.Reading a bible 100 times without His Spirit is meaningless &the words are dead.He (Jesus) is the Spirit of all life.U need Him to show u HIS Word.Just ask Him from ur heart to show u.No strings attached :D
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
I used to be a heavy christian in my youth. And by the way, to all you dumb-ass christians out there (not you perse), catholics are also chrisitians, duh!
I probably was a bigger believer that even you were. Just saying. I was heavy into it.
I questioned why I never felt anything supernatural. Ever! I had a shit load of faith. Bigger than a mustard seed. I prayed and prayed. Nothing answered. No spirit. nor god or anything supernatural. I prayed harder, and longer. Nothing.
And-
Domzdream 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
-and you know why?
Because there's nothing there dude. Again, if you remove bias, if you consider logic. I know it's a stretch for you christians, but...try. Think about it. If you need faith in something to be real, why would it be true. If you had knowledge, then you wouldnt need faith, would you? ANy rational thinker KNOWS this.
You'd think that an almighty god would psychically project his word and his existence into every mind in the world, all at once, rmoving ANY kind-
Domzdream 4 months ago
@ If u truly want to know the Living God, then ask Him to show u your HEART the way He sees it.Then ask Him to heal u from the inside out. U cant "fool" God. U cant hoodwink Him by looking for "proof" by testing Him like the thief on the cross who said "if u really are who u say you are, then get off the cross and take me down too" (paraphrasing). It is a HEART issue not a "head" issue. Your heart must desperately want Him.If you're looking for a magician, then you're looking in the wrong place.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
listen, my heart of hearts does the pumping of blood to my body.
That's it. The rest
Question: do you find torture appealing?
Domzdream 4 months ago
@Domzdream "Do you find torture appealing?" No, I don't. Are you being tortured?
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Good. We have that under the rug.
Now. You probably know where Im going with this....
If you have given birth to a child, (maybe you have a child already), if this child didnt love you, would you torture it until it said that it did love you? We're talking about putting it inside an oven for an hour or two, hearing it's screams and cries. Would you do this?!
Please answer.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@D :) I dont know how to tell u this,without doing a huge study with u about the truth of God's Word, but after the longest study I think I have ever done,I have found out, NOWHERE in the bible does God send people to a place called hell.Hell was a pagan belief that bled into the church when early translators REPLACED the words of GRAVE,GEHENNA,TARTARUS with this word "hell" which the majority of believers STILL BELIEVE.When you read the scriptures in their true translation,there is NO HELL.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Riiiiight. You obviously havent heard of google. I strongly suggest this. I found this in five seconds, so I'll spare you your I quote ' longest study you've ever done', right here. Let me shed some light upon you.
Peter 2:4-5 says, "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment."
Mark 9:46 describes hell as: "Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched."
Domzdream 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Wait....
More? Okay....more.
Matthew 8:12 says, "But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
Isaiah 66:24 reads: "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."
(more coming)
Domzdream 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Daniel 12:2 describes the duration of hell: "Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt."
Luke 12:5 says, "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."
(more, oh yes)
Domzdream 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Mark 9:47 says, "And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell."
Matthew 23:33 reads: "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"
I think you get my point after all that schooling. Read your bible!!!!
And by the way, you still havent answered my question I asked you to answer.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@ Those words "hell". Like I said, that word "hell" is NOT the original Greek. There is good teaching on this from a website called "Gods plan for All". So take a look and it goes into minute detail of the origin of the TEACHING of hell, the word hell, and the WORDS "hell" replaced - it goes into these scriptures too. I did answer your question,I told you Hell is NOT REAL.That is my answer.But YOU need to get to the bottom of this subject and find out once&for all for yourself, the truth.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
Ahhh.
I knew we'd side track along this pathway. Semantics.
You sound like a christian apologist at the moment. If you say the bible is left to interpretation, then pretty much most of can be subjectively interpreted. No, it's silly.
Think about it. Why would a creator of galaxies want to introduce the his word into a book (which even christians admit) was edited and re edited many many times over, to be introduced to illiterate goat herders who didnt even know what a -
Domzdream 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
-a metaphor was, in the middle of a little place called Israel. Ultimately, leaving this bible so complex (which is also by the way filled with contradictions), to be interpreted in many ways. Come on. It's dumb. Think about it! You'd think that this almighty creator would psychically project his true word into every single mind in the world, leaving no doubt that he's the one true god. But no.
He writes a badly written book.
facepalmSLAP!
Domzdream 4 months ago
@Domzdream Seek and ye shall find, Knock and the door will open. You just enjoy mocking and have no real genuine intentions. It will all change when the Lord begins to call your heart. Until then, all this, the bible, Spirit of God, Jesus, heaven, it will all be meaningless and a subject for you to ridicule. Take care, I said what was needed to be said. The rest is up to Yahweh. Bye. ;)
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
I'm not mocking you on purpose. Im not getting anything out of this obviously. But when you say stupid shit like this, imposing your retarded religion on me, it gets really irritating.
I know theists have little imagination at all. But try imagining this same scenario right back atcha.
(ahem...)
you will hopefully realize that all this brainwashed nonsense which is intelectually void of any logic or evidence, is just that- nonsense. And that hopefully someday you will live a -
Domzdream 3 months ago
@jvsm1971
-a better, more productive life, with better morals. And hopefully (actually) your reading the bible and not cherry picking the fuzzy wuzzy bits will make you realise that this book is twisted and evil and should be ONLY used as a black poster of what not to do and how to NOT treat others with utter rejection.
There.
Yea, take care, and I hope you find a way out of this evil cult. Bye.
Domzdream 3 months ago
@jvsm1971
-kind of doubt. But he doesnt. And why?
Because there's nothing there. I mean, this is why atheists come across as intellectually arrgogant. But one cannot help but feel superior to a thinking of this kind. This childishness. Personally, I'm not that smart really. But even I know what's silly and what is not. And thanks to reading the bible, and researching where christianity came from, I left that evil and false crap behind.
Research your faith and you'll see. Open your eyes!
Domzdream 4 months ago
@D In ur opinion nothing is there, again, that's not exactly truth. U assume nothing is there without even asking to see? Have u ever asked out of your heart? Anyhow, you have the freedom to believe what you like, truth or not. And I do too. I will say that I have had a supernatural encounter with the Living God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and I have been supernaturally changed from the inside out. That alone is testament to a Living God - to ME because it's REAL evidence of Him to me PERSONALLY.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
As I mentioned, I asked and asked, and prayed and prayed, and nothing in any way was there, other than personal fluffy emotions perhapse. But that's just self-hypnosis right there.
What supernatural actions have you witnessed outside of personal experience like happiness, or upliftment. Because those are just emotions which are triggered by chemicals to the brain. really simple stuff if yoiu read about it.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@D When Jesus Christ poured out His Spirit upon me, I was overcome with grief and I wept uncontrolably for hours. The only way I can describe it, is that He allowed me to "FEEL" my sins &rebellion and it was just awful BUT at the same time, His LOVE swallowed me up.His love was stronger for me than my pain that I was feeling for all the evil things I had thought, done, and spoken.The next day EVERYTHING changed.JOY was pouring out of me.His Spirit was in me.I was born again by His Spirit.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
wow. hehe. Ok, ok. Cool. Whatever works for you in the end I suppose.
Domzdream 4 months ago
@Domzdream You will know what Im talking about one day. Everyone will go through this at some point. It's called, "repentance". Take care.
jvsm1971 4 months ago
@jvsm1971
pffff....hahaha
bullshit.
Domzdream 4 months ago
Why is this South African lad trying to sound American? Bru, be true to form. You've been watching too many eminem videos on Mnet.
Domzdream 6 months ago
@Domzdream Because I live in the US.
PeaceInChristAlone 6 months ago
Comment removed
TheFurthertruth 3 months ago
To all christians:
Um...is there gravity in hell? Is there air? Fire needs oxygen to thrive, sorry to be er...technical, and right.
If there's gravity, then is hell a big planet? A big burnign planet, like Mercury. Is hell on Mercury?
See, these are the technical BASIC questions which eludes theists. Whoosh, right over your heads.
Domzdream 6 months ago
@Domzdream I hope GOD save everyone.
PeaceInChristAlone 6 months ago
@PeaceInChristAlone
(facepalmSLAP!)
Domzdream 6 months ago
@Domzdream ::: If you want to get the real story on how hells work, download (free) the book "A Wanderer in the Spirit Lands". It will curdle your hair. No fire. Just darkness and misery.
k0smon 5 months ago
@k0smon
No thanks. It's OBVIOUSLY made up crap.
Domzdream 5 months ago
@Domzdream ::: Obvious to who? Not me.
k0smon 5 months ago
@k0smon
Yes. But you're not rational.
If you're a christian, or any other kind of cult following, er...sorry...religion (slip of the tongue there),
you're to believe in Balrogs and demons of hell, buah-haha!
Oh. And cherrubs. It's in the bible.
LIke I asked theists in general before. Is there gravity in hell? Is there air? There MUST be air, otherwise fire wouldnt burn. These are typical elements of the REAL world. Real physics.
R-E-A-L-I-T-Y.
SO.
Is there gravity?
Domzdream 5 months ago
@Domzdream ::: It is irrational to believe the bible, a mishmash of ancient religious writings, is the 'word of God'. I only believe anything in the bible, if the truth of it is self-evident.
In the afterlife, gravity does not matter. Your travel is by direct thought, and that is what causes your stability, not gravity. You will find a different set of physics at work in the afterlife, so your questions are without merit. "Life in the World Unseen" (free download) would give you some insight.
k0smon 5 months ago
@k0smon
How do you know this? About the physics?
Domzdream 5 months ago
@Domzdream : I read a lot about the afterlife. "The Unobstructed Universe" by Stewart Edward White is one.
k0smon 5 months ago
@k0smon
Um...
has this man any evidence to state his claim? Other than what he 'saw' or experienced.
It's easy to claim to see fairies, and Elvis, and gods of all kinds. But it's another to be able to back up these claims with ANY evidence.
WHy's this man any less credible than let's say a shaman that claims to see spirits of animals, and him taking the form of a hawk, or an eagle.
Domzdream 5 months ago
sir, you are absolutely correct. hell is a sixth century roman catholic teaching used to milk the masses out of their possessions. why is it that the teaching of hell is not contained in the scriptures? answer: when the scriptures were written there was no catholic church. or ask yourself, can hell be cast into hell?
babeCZar 7 months ago
Get the book The Aqua Oracle by Ty Anderson, it is the best book on Universalism I have ever read. You can find it at amazon. Check out the chapter titles of this book, very intense.
This book INCINERATES THE DAMNATIONISTS.
MichaelBoryAlis 7 months ago
Dude the wage of sin is death....what is death? Death is separation from God. We have mercy now every day you and I exist to spread the Gospel. Africa is being saved right now. My friend was called out of Atheism by God. No Gospel. God is calling people today all over. Jesus died for all the have the option to believe. To make a choice. For people to not worry about that choice is to say all the prophets of the Bible from Elijah to Paul died for nothing. Their message was to turn to God.
USMCdrummer06 7 months ago
I was thinking I'm the only one who finds the modern Christian scenario has too many holes. Thanks.
legalizeshemp 7 months ago
I'm not going to tell you just what my age is cause that is none of your business, but I'll tell you I have 2 son's out of college. Go figure.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 You error again. The earliest church father who was a universalist was Origen. Read the Ante-Nicene Fathers. I can give you countless quotes of them speaking of Hell, it's reality and it's eternal punishment of the wicked. Even Justin Martyr makes a comparison flatly rejecting aion as a Platonic "Long age (thousand years) punishment, but that it was eternal. You need to stop reading websites and anemic articles and do some scholarly work.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards "You error again" and "and do scholarly work" - Let your persuasive points do the talking, these comments suggest to the reader you are not confident in your arguments.
tintinworld 8 months ago
@lightmane321 This bible teacher, Greg Boyd, is trying to reconcile the OT God of Violence with the revelation of Jesus and his teachings on Non-Violence. I find some of Greg's ideas helpful, this is one of his blog entries - w w w.gregboyd.org/blog/jesus-repudiation-of-old-testament-violence // let me know if you have some video links etc on this topic, am looking for more understanding on this seeming contradiction, appreciate any input on this, ta, j
tintinworld 8 months ago
LOL Greg Boyd.... There is NO DIFFERENCE between the O.T. God and the N.T. God.... He saved the same way, through faith and He HATES SIN and the SINNER unless by His grace He causes them to be born again...
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards There is No Difference. To me it reads as if there is a difference. The Voilent God (Jesus) of the OT seems not to be the dont-take-up-arms / go-to-the-cross God (Jesus) of the NT.
Psalm 137:9 = Child Abuse
So it must be my intrepretation that is incomplete... Am looking for more understand on this topic.
tintinworld 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards Have you listened to any of Greg's ideas, or read much of his work?
tintinworld 8 months ago
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tintinworld 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards Hi, from reading the last 10 pages of posts between you and @Lightmane321 / @phillip78, I feel sad that you express a particularly low view of the goodness of people.
Is this theoritical, or do you distrust people's goodness?
Does this belief support you?
Ignore my questions if appropriate, but would be interested to hear, if you wanted to share, j
tintinworld 8 months ago
@tintinworld NO ONE is good but God... Jesus said that, take it up with him. No one seeks God, no not one. There is none righteous, not one. It isn't a low view of man, but a correct one. EVERYTHING done without faith (in Christ) IS SIN. That's the Biblical/explicit anthropology.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards So, it's theorticial for you, as you have answered using concepts rather than first person experience. I was & am interested in hearing your heart.
tintinworld 8 months ago
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL AND upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
NO I DID NOT ADD TO THE WORD. Ro 3:22 is DIRECTLY from the KJV.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 Nope you didn't, the KJV translators unfortunately didn't have the best manuscripts for this verse. They used what they had (which is 99% VERY good) but they made a mistake here because in P40, Aleph, B,C it reads eis pantas (for all) but then, they had in the Vulgate epi pantas without the eis pantas..so they put BOTH in! It is a manuscript redundancy. Secondly it is a substantival, therefore eis pantas shouldn't have been added. The Alexandrian texts are correct. It's just "for all"
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards CORRECTION: "EPI pantas" shouldn't have been added. There is extremely strong evidence and Very strong grammatical evidence that it should properly be translated a substantival "the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ [for all who believe].
You build your doctrines on bad exegesis and poor translation errors. Yet if you would study a little bit, you would have known about the textual variance in the verse before you start using it as a proof text....
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
...Do we really believe in "times eternal." What does "time," let along "timeS" have to do with "eternity?"And as Paul speaks of the "revelation" of this secret, how could it EVER be revealed if it was kept secret ‘ETERNALLY?’ Do you not see a problem—a CONTRADICTION in all of this?
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 You don't understand that aionios can be limited or "closed" depending on the word that is used with it, i.e. kronos. There is not contradiction, just understanding the Greek and how they used it, but if you don't know Greek, you are only listening and parroting others.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards aion can mean limited but can also mean eternal? LOL So in your math class 2+2 can sometimes equal 4 but other times it can mean 5 or a billion? Us universalist translate aion consistantly, you like to pick and choose when it is a age, and when it doesn't just so long as it fits yur agenda. Lightmane exposes calvinisn for what it is - satanic. I get the feeling you think whoever responds last wins. GROW UP. IM DONE WITH YOU. You are a reprobate.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 Are you "blind" to the fact words change depending on what other words go with them? - My last sentence is an example, it doesn't mean "you can't see" but you are unaware or uninformed or don't understand... ainios is also a completely different word than aion and is used differently. Lighmane doesn't expose nothing but strawmen. His ignorance doesn't produce anything academically challenging whatsoever.
I'm reprobate? So... I'll still get to heaven! Right? So, why does it matter?
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards Yes, you will go to heaven. See ya there.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 Yeah, I'm going to go hang out with some of the great saints that will be there, you know.... Hitler, Stalin, Dahmer, Attilah the Hun and Judas... maybe even have some time to talk to Satan?
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards You wouldn't recognize Satan if you were having lunch with Satan.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 pffff... I'm glad about that! How do you know, anyways? Guess you know him, huh? No wonder your thinking is so messed up!
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards I knew you wouldn't recgnze him. You think Satan is some kind of cadavar with horns and a pitch fork. You have lots to learn.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 Actually he's "the shining/beautiful one" the master deceiver. He makes everybody think "it's all good" "do what thou wilt" is the Satanist's motto.... Funny, that's basically the idea of most cults... it's all going to be good, nobody's going to suffer, we are all going to be one happy family! ... Yeah... I know Satan when I here him, I wish you did.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards Only Satan calls good evil and evil good. You wouldn't recognize Satan if you were shaking hands with Satan.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 Only Satan says "Did God REALLY Say"? Like "Did God REALLY Say there is going to be an eternal hell?... NO... of coarse there won't be... don't be afraid! It's going to turn out great for everyone!" ... Yeah... THAT doesn't sound like Satan at all... LOL
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards Did God say to Adam and Eve in tue garden that for eating of the fruit they shall surely suffer with life of eternal torment f Did God say they shall DIE? YOU are speaking the same lie the serpet told in the garden "you shall NOT surely die" You are a snake.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 They spiritually died that day. Still can't get over the embarrassing position that you are in? You are on the side of ALL the cults and heretics? Who's the deceived one? Go ahead and side with the Mormons, JW's Atheists (for that matter) Baihi, Hindu, Buddhists.. oh yeah... you're in great company.... NOT...
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards Id rather die than to worship this thug of a low life god you worship. And it still doesn't negate the fact that God told them they shall DIE!!! God did not tell them they would suffer eternal torment. Not only THAT it is also plain in Ro 6:23. Sin brings death, not life. You are still speaking the same lie in the garden. You are a snake.
BTW: Id rather be a Muslim than a Calvinist. Calvinism is the top of the list when t comes to evil doctrines.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 It says the DAY they sin they DIE. They died spiritually. No, the only snake here is the one trying to deceive people in thinking that there isn't a place that they will suffer, in order to get them there in reality.....
You really don't understand any doctrine do you? Take some theology classes... that is unless you are not out of High school yet... considering your tautological arguments, maybe you are a high schooler...
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards No interested in schools that give their man made theories, I'll stick with the facts. "It says the DAY they sin they DIE." It doesn't say that, and you just told me below that they die spiritually, now your telling me they die the same day? Physically? Well OBVIOUSLY NO. So it is spiritually. The correct translation is they will be DYING. Besides that, that has not a thing to do with the FACT that the wages of sin is DEATH, not life.
phillip78 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards And what does your comment have anything to do with me telling you to go ask Michael Servetus? You are dodging my comments. Typical for smeone like you. Enjoy worshiping this thug of a god you server.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 If you are going to put the blame of Servetus on Calvin, you've been reading BY FAR nothing but tabloid trash only written to make money off the ignorant. Really, can you actually do ANY scholarly work? Try reading Schaff's "History of the Church" ...It's the standard work...
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards History of the church? If Hell was real, why did the first comparatively complete systematic statement of Christian doctrine ever given to the world by Clement of Alexandria, A.D. 180, contain the tenet of universal salvation? If Hell was real, why did not a single Christian writer of the first 3 centuries declare universalism as a heresy? hummm. I got your history.
phillip78 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards If Hell was real, how is it that the most prominent universalists of the early church were born into Christian families and were most highly revered by their peers while those who advocated Hell came from paganism and confessed they were among the vilest? Tertullian and Augustine.
phillip78 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards If hell is real, why was it not until the 6th century when Justinian, a half-pagan emperor, tried to make universalism a heresy? Interestingly, most historians will acknowledge that Justinian's reign was among the MOST cruel and ruthless. humm I got your history. Only those who stoop down to insults like you just did with saying "unless you are not out of High school yet" are losing control of what they believe. I'm a LOT older than you think.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 You are incorrect. It wasn't BECAUSE of Justinian, He only officially acknowledged the error of the Origen school based on the history of the Church's teaching from it's inception. Epiphanius, Jerome, Augustine all the way back to Tertullian,Justin Martyr and Irenaeus. Martyr and Irenaeus had psychological speculations, but there doctrinal references plainly speak of eternal punishment, LONG before Origen, and MUCH longer before Justinian.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards I totally disagree. If Hell is real, why did the early church appoint an avowed universalist as the President of the second council of the church in Constantinople in the fourth century? (Gregory Nazianzen, 325-381) If hell is real, why did Church leaders as late as the fourth century AD acknowledge that the majority of Christians believed in the salvation of all mankind? These are facts, not speculation.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 Yes, the Nestorians and Gregory were of the eastern (heavily Greek philosophically influenced) church and were of the school of.... ORIGEN... But the West heavily disregarded their view, mostly because it was NOT TAUGHT in the early church and it was not orthodox. You can use the same argument concerning Arianism also.... the East believed that Jesus wasn't always divine also? Does that prove your point?
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards If Hell is real and found in the original Greek manuscripts of the Bible, why is it that it was primarily those church leaders who either couldn't read Greek (Minucius Felix, Tertullian), or hated Greek as in the case of Augustine, that the doctrine of Hell was advocated? Those early church leaders familiar with the Greek and Hebrew (the original languages of the Bible) saw universal salvation in those texts................
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 Those who advocated Hell got it from the Latin, NOT from the original Greek and Hebrew. Who would more likely be correct--those who could read the original languages of the Bible or those who read a Latin translation made by one man (Jerome)?
phillip78 8 months ago
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@ronathanedwards Calvinism is a demonic teaching that makes people blind and evil. Ask Michael Servetus.
phillip78 8 months ago
... and it is coming unto all, as well as to all believers, because there is no difference" between the process of salvation which is coming to all sinners, as well as "all who believe". All will be judged, either now in this life, or else they will be judged in the lake of fire, called "the second death". "There is no difference, because there is but one event which destroys the old man in present believers
phillip78 9 months ago
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@phillip78 There is no difference between Jew or Greek BELIEVERS. Everyone will be judged, the sheep to heaven and the goats to hell.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL and upon all them that believe: FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. There it is. "There is no difference" between "all...and all them that believe". So much for the heresy of Calvin that "all" here means only "all kinds of men".
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction Ro 3:22.
You added: "unto all and". Don't you know it's dangerous to add to God's Word. There is no distinction between Jew or Greek (gentiles, the WORLD). Read the previous two chapters, it might help you out a little. Chapter One (meaning everyone) Chapter two concerns the Jews because they would think ch. 1 is just about the gentiles, chapter three raps up 1 and 2. You err.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards no you add to the word saying "all kinds" don't even go there. You onow wh you ate and i knw who i am l. And lightmane summed up the calvinist doctrin with his last statement. . ABSURD.
phillip78 8 months ago
@phillip78 I didn't "ADD" to the Scripture, I explained what the scripture said. YOU however ADDED actual words to the scripture when you quoted it... big difference... go to school.
ronathanedwards 8 months ago
@ronathanedwards OH YES YOU DID ADD TO THE WORD. You make 1 tim 2:4 say who will have all kinds of men to be saved. Therefore you added t the word. And I dont need a school that teaches a bun h of theories. You can keep your theories to yourself. I'm pnpy interested in facts. Now move along and go play your games of theories, fiction.
phillip78 8 months ago
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calvinist is another word for "ppl who were drop as a baby" so yea thats why they translate the bible like that.
phillip78 9 months ago
So with that you teach with this hell dogma, the fall of Adam will be more powerful than the work of the cross? Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation [That's is Adam's trangression]; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Your telling me that the fall of Adam will be more successful than what Jesus did on the cross?
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 It's not talking about "success" it is talking about effect. Jesus' atonement is effective for those whom He died for. Adam's sin 100% effected many, Jesus' atonement is 100% effective for the many. I would hope that if you enjoy theology, I would suggest that you take some classes, maybe even Greek.
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards So you're telling me that Adam's transgression REALLY brought down every single person, but the work of cross does not mean all in Ro 5;18???
phillip78 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards AND the success, is the same thing as the effect. The "EFFECT" of the cross will bring salvation for everyone. You are fighting the scriptures to uphold eternal torment.
phillip78 9 months ago
continuing... if not was born the man that ['THAT MAN' is Judas. "Good were it for Jesus if JUDAS had not been born," not "Good were it for JUDAS if Judas had not been born]" (Matt. 26:24).
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 Doesn't answer my question, I was paraphrasing. Why did Jesus make this statement concerning Judas?
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards I answer you perfectly. You just don't like the answer. I'm sorry you don't agree with the bible.
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 Phillip do you know grammar? but woe to that man (εκεινος)[Judas] by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man (εκεινος) [Judas] if he [Judas] had not been born. First of all Matthew isn't going to refer to the Christ in a demonstrative fashion. Secondly "that" man refers to Judas in the first phrase and then the demonstrative is used again in the second phrase. It's a DIRECT link to Judas. Before you start making grammatical judgments, learn grammar.
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
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@ronathanedwards through whom the Son of the man is delivered up; good it was to Him [REMEMBER 'Him' is Jesus] if not was born the man that ['THAT MAN' is Judas. "Good were it for Jesus if JUDAS had not been born," not "Good were it for JUDAS if Judas had not been born]" (Matt. 26:24). Got that? Good!
phillip78 9 months ago
And yes God does have vengeance. I SAID God LOVE is never vengeful.
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 Is what your writing directed towards me??? for if it is, I'll be glad to clear up your straw-manned arguments, with what I actually believe from Scripture.
xWhiteLightning 9 months ago
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@xWhiteLightning I will assure you. You will not be able to teach me anything, I promise.
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 God is "simple". He Loves ALL of His attributes and does not sacrifice any of them for the sake of any other. He uses ALL of His attributes in EVERY action. A simple "God is Love" isn't an answer and is an answer for everything because in that Love, it is also Just, Holy, and righteous. Those who justify the wicked are an abomination....
He will not be an idolater for mankind.
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards I am in no way justifying the wicked. The wicked will have their day in court, and be judged. However through this JUDGMENT they will LEARN RIGHTEOUSNESS Isa 26:9
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 Yes, they will learn of God's righteousness, that doesn't mean that they accept it, they will learn of His righteousness by His righteous judgement, which is eternal punishment. That is God honoring and loving His Holiness and Justice. You don't understand the verse, you are only implying your false presuppositions.
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards If God is "consistent" in ALL of His attributes, then He WILL save everyone. If He doesn't, then He won't be consistent in all of them. If He does, He will show mercy AND justice for all, but Mercy will "triumph" over justice, as the scriptures declare. Would you like to see all the verses in the OT which PROVE that God will save all people in all nations? It's very clear, once you see the plain scriptures, yet my calvinist & arminian friends simply can't see it. Weird.
Lightmane321 9 months ago
@Lightmane321 Trying to get a Calvinist to see it is like trying to squeeze blood out of an onion. Even you don't know it but I have studied this for 10 years now. A lot of ppl think this is just something I have recently discovered. They are so wrong in thinking a few comments will change all that.
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 Yes, allot of Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons have studied their "topics" for more than you have studied theirs, yet they only study what their itching ears want to hear. You, my friend need to go take some theology classes and stop studying internet theolofilth.
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards I need to take THEOLOGY classes? NO thank you. I don't need classes that teach THEORIES. I will settle for my teacher - The Holy Spirit. ;) And to "LEARN TO BE RIGHTEOUS" Is to BE righteous, and if you have studied Greek for ONLY 2 years, I have a lot more on you man. Do you fervently PRAY for the salvation of all men? (1 Tim. 2:1) Do you pray in FAITH , nothing doubting? (James 1:6) Are you aware, "that whatsoever is not of faith is sin?" -- (Rom 14:23)
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 Can you not read properly? Greek for 2 years ADVANCED Greek for 2 years and NT Greek Survey for 3 years.... that equals SEVEN. I'm afraid your reading of my posts are the way you read Scripture... poorly. U have more than me? But U use interlinears? LOL
To learn the righteousness of God, is NOT the same as to learn TO BE righteous, another grammar error. Sorry, you're completely wrong. You don't need teachers, huh? God gave the church teachers, guess you didn't read that scripture.
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards Not so. If that were the case, the phrase "for there is no difference" would have no contrast at all. How would that then read? '... by faith of Jesus Christ unto all kinds of people, and upon all kinds of people, who believe, for there is no difference'?The words "kinds of people" are not in the Greek and are not the point being made.What is the point being made is that "The righteousness of God is by the faith of Jesus Christ,
phillip78 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards And you are FLUENT in Greek when in fact that aion means an AGE?? And you think it's eternal?
phillip78 9 months ago
@phillip78 I am fluent in Greek and have allot of study in the evolution of etymology of Greek. That is why I KNOW that Hell is eternal, and that is WHY you are misguided about the topic and of scripture and the character of God. It really is sad when people are to proud to go to school, yet they want to think they are authorities.
ronathanedwards 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards 2 Thes. 2:16"…and has given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace." "Console" is defined as, "To allay sorrow or grief of." "Hope" is defined as, "To wish for something with expectations of its fulfillment." Now then, according to this inane KJV translation of this verse, just how long are we going to have our "SORROW AND GRIEF ALLAYED?" How long must we "HOPE" before we have our hope fulfilled? For ALL ETERNITY? Nonsense.
phillip78 9 months ago
@ronathanedwards Rom. 16:25"…according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world [Gk: aionios] began." Well check this bit of translating genius out. We have the ADJECTIVE word "aionios" and the KJV translators changed it to a NOUN, "world."Well guess what? The word "world" (kosmos) is not found in this verse, furthermore, neither is the word "began." The Greek reads:"…in times eonian." ...
phillip78 9 months ago