John Adams- American History

[emtpilot132]

I watched this scene and then immediately watched the boston tea party scene. If I were Trumball I would have wanted to off myself for displeasing a man like John Adams.

[phreakinpher]

So, wait, is this scene what really happened? Or is modern history still false? This clip presents a paradox, insofar as the set of false modern American history includes itself.

[POTCMarc101]

WO! lol never see him talk like that about the American Revolution and the founding fathers before

[MECowhey]

When I first watched this scene on HBO I too was surprised by how Adams reacted. That's because I wasn't listening to what Adams was saying. The true history of our revolution will never be known. In the scene where Adams and Jefferson write letters back and forth Adams asks "who will write the history of our revolution?" Jefferson responds "You ask who will write the history of our revolution...nobody except merely it's external facts". So much truth is lost through revisionist history.

[98bigbutt]

@MECowhey,The problem was that in their time there was no recorded sounds and video camera to actually really know the real history of the American Revolution.

[Thoralmir]

Then again, is a young a country as ours, all we have is who we want to be.

[tylrjsph]

one of my fav parts in the movie

[anonymous1trgb]

I think this show is an overall success. It is very interesting, informative and therefore worthy of praise.

However, there are some problems. In the video, Adams says that he and Jefferson were the only ones left. But James Madison and John Jay were still alive. Furthermore, its a shame that the show failed, even its slightest, to mention other important figures such as Thomas Paine.

But then again I understand the difficulty of fitting such history in 7 episodes.

[folklore19]

@anonymous1trgb He said they were only 'Signers' left. Madison and Jay did not sign the Declaration of Independence.

[beatleboy9020001]

they portray trumball to be way too young in this. he would have 70 in 1826

[huskyjerk]

Where can I find a complete upload of this fine film?

[brok3ndarkness]

@huskyjerk please check your e-mail and get back to me i sent you some infomation

[MainiacBrainiac]

More sources:

Oh, and while Adams was a Christian, he has interesting ideas about where our values come from....

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac I would doubt the authenticity of this quote, where is a primary source citation for this?

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac "The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If "Thou shalt not covet," and "Thou shalt not steal," were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society, before it can be civilized or made free. "

[timcp1]

@timcp1 (Source: John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Charles C. Little and James Brown, 1851), Vol. VI, p. 9.)

[MainiacBrainiac]

More sources:

James Madison:

What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries."

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac James Madison was a Christian early on and changed later in life. But this quote is about theocracy not an individuals faith.

[MainiacBrainiac]

More sources:

Thomas Paine:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my church. "

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac This guy was not seen as anybody by the Founders John Adams wrote, “The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity, let the Blackguard Paine say what he will.”--John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Charles Little and James Brown, 1841), Vol. III, p. 421, diary entry for July 26, 1796.

[MainiacBrainiac]

More sources:

Benjamin Franklin.

". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a through Deist."

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac Sure he may have been a Deist, but he acknowledged Christianity is best, just read his Educational Plan for Pennsylvania.

[timcp1]

"t is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free constitution is pure virtue."

--John Adams to Zabdiel Adams on June 21, 1776.

[beatleboy9020001]

they make trumball look too young, in 1826 he was 70. he fought in the revolution too

[timcp1]

" The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity." John Adams to Thomas Jefferson on June 28,1813--John Adams, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States, Charles Francis Adams, editor (Boston: Little, Brown and Company, 1856), Vol. X, pp.45-46

[MainiacBrainiac]

@timcp1 " An amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. "

-Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac That was a bill for the state of Virginia. And it shows that the state didn't want a religious theocracy, but it doesn't show that the majority of the Founders themselves as individuals, did not hold the belief of Christianity.

[timcp1]

@timcp1 "The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity."--John Adams, Works, Vol. III, p. 421, diary entry for July 26, 1796.

[MainiacBrainiac]

@timcp1 "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

"It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac Re-read that letter to Dr. Cooper, "We have four sects, but without either church or meeting-house. The court-house is the common temple, one Sunday in the month to each. Here, Episcopalian and Presbyterian, Methodist and Baptist, meet together, join in hymning their Maker, listen with attention and devotion to each others' preachers, and all mix in society with perfect harmony." Where is there 'Separation of Church and State' in that?

[MainiacBrainiac]

@timcp1 BTW, I don't want to seem like I'm ragging on Christianity too much by including these quotes. But I just want to point out that "the founders" were a remarkably diverse group of people with divergent views, just like Americans today. And quite a few of them, like Jefferson, didn't Believe in the strictest sense of the word. Washington himself was a private Deist and refused on principle to take communion. Our American values come both from Christianity and from outside it.

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac You say they were "diverse", but you only quote Jefferson? And then you assert Washington was a private deist without any primary source citation? What Deist recommends soldiers to have Christian character like Washington did at Valley Forge? Deist is non-Christian unbelief or fidelity as is defined in the American English Language Dictionary of 1828 by Noah Webster.

[MainiacBrainiac]

@timcp1 Yes, but that bill for Virginia, which was one of Jefferson's proudest accomplishments (one of only 3 achievements he wanted on his epitaph) has been widely seen as the precursor to the first amendment, which, like it or not, clearly separates church and state. Our American values come not from God, they come from Montenesqieu and Hobbes and Locke and all the other philosophers who spent time thinking about the best way to construct happiness and provide for the public good.

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac Charles Montesquieu and Hobbes didn't sign either the U.S. Constitution or the Declaration of Independence, the men who did were overwhelmingly Christian. There were 39 Men who signed the U.S. Constitution & 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence. Very few that is 3 recommended those Philosophers you mention.

[MainiacBrainiac]

@timcp1 Yet they were the ones who came up with the ideas of "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness", "government exists by consent of the governed" and "separation of powers". You cannot help but look at those documents and not see their impact.

[timcp1]

@MainiacBrainiac Who specifically is they? You've mentioned quite a few people. Do you have specific Founders in mind or are you referring to those Philosophers such as Hobbes?

[googlexxxxxxx]

I love how the likenesses on the painting have been changed to look like the actors.

[wvsoccermom34]

As the saying goes it is about who is telling the story and that my dear sirs is the most honest of truthfulness as to the matter of the American History. The truth will never be known only that which artists of the time wanted us to know about. Typical of true Media

[Suprkit]

Charles Carroll of Carrollton was the last signatory of the Declaration of Independence; passing away at the age of 95 in 1832.

[talbotfisher1984]

Gotta love John Quincy's reaction at 1:13! He knew the painter should not have asked that.

[ThomasAnime]

@talbotfisher1984 What do you mean by that?

[ThomasAnime]

@talbotfisher1984  What do you mean by that?

[RushLimborg]

@ThomasAnime

JQ clears his throat loudly, knowing full well that his father is NOT concerned in the least whether the picture "does him justice".  Adams is too focused on the insult to his memories of the darkness of those times....

[YesWeCantaloupe]

I'm studying hard to become a teacher. Gawd I can't wait to teach social studies. :-)

[biped19]

"I consider the true history of the American revolution is lost."

Superb scene. The typical artist, a whore for patrons and exposure.

This also shows well the birth of modern American myth/propaganda.

[TomPreston6]

This was a great mini-series and this scene in particular stood out to me. I'm amazed at how even in the span of only a few years history is altered and distorted to the point that no one remembers how it happened, and how people are unable or unwilling to allow themselves to be able to view those events with the same sort of mindset.

[Devsfan202]

Very sad-the story on this blog of the WWI soldier from last year-we are all headed in that direction-I am afraid. Living to near 100y/o doesn't appeal to me.

[jktthunt]

Not all dead...John Jay outlived Jefferson and Adams- Died in 1829

[Devsfan202]

J Jay did not sign the declaration on independence

[Melville10]

This was a great scene but very sad.

[leoricoftristram]

Is that John Quincy Adams with John Adams?

[ErictheHawksFan]

Yes.

[Melville10]

Yes it is.

[diavoloblanc]

Leaders like the Founding Fathers are difficult to find these days...

[NeoFederalrevolution]

leaders like the founders are always among us. Its just that few have the opportunity to display their talents. Revolutions after all, are quite rare and rarely end successfully.

[birdman9594]

We watched this entire series in school. i enjoyed learning about the american Revolution.

[TheJoester1992]

Thank God for John Adams.

[msotolopez]

Bull crap, This individual hope to take over Cuba to expand the already existing slavery in U.S which already had existed there. But not after extracting Cuba from Spain.

[TheJoester1992]

What are you talking about?

[snsliberty2]

We need to bring this history back alive. Or we will lose this nation. They haven't been taught true American history in the public schools for over 50 years, only pathetic watered down social studies. But then again, this is what the government wants, Right?

[wolf8503]

oh to be a fly on the wall back in these times.!!

[thomasw78]

Its a nice painting but it is indeed very bad history.

[wolf8503]

how true that the history of the Revolution is lost forever...sad very sad...

[beatleboy9020001]

this is true, to say every delegate signed the declaration on july 4 is rather nieve. however i doubt adams had to remind john trumball that the country was at war already being that trumball fought in the war. Its said adams commented by saying "when i nominated general washington to be commander and cheif he scurried out that door" . Despite its inacuraccy it is still one of my favorite paintings

[RachTrinity]

one of the greatest series EVER from our most underrated President. Without Adams our Constitutional form of gov't may have never been accepted..it was the first time it was tested and for now 44 Presidents it continues..thank you for this..

[eysblog1fan]

this scene made me cry once!! :( "there all dead" :(

[smoky90210]

"All dead"

Ah line that choked me up when my grandfather went to his last World War 1 82nd Infantry "A"Company reunion in 1995 he was the only man left out of 123 men.He gave a speech in which he broke down to the audience of his commerades families,after sayingbeing given a portrait photograph from Armistice day in 1917 of his entire company.He said "Im the only boy left!"and began to cry.He later told me at age 101 whoever dies first is the luckiest,this series helped me understand.

[franniepan]

Can anyone help me out with the name of the actor that plays John Trumbull in this scene?

You may also be interested in a thread in 'The New Republic' about writing this scene. Search under "Ellis on the final hour of 'John Adams'" (youtube won't let me post the link)

[abnoceans12]

a great movie! before i saw this movie i knew very little of john adams and afterwards found out what an interesting and amazing man he was. he was right in scenes of the movie though he seemed very hard on himself about not being remembered for his accomplishments. But after all hes done for our country and got the shaft almost everytime. if only we had a little of john adams in all our politicians

[TheJoker7682]

YOU, still have the power to change that sentiment, but only if YOU are so courageous as to follow through on that sentiment. Our current situation is precisely that moment when the forces of liberty will act upon history to record the true nature of what our original revolution represents. RestoretheRepublic(dot)net

Liberty WILL Reign in America, but only if you stand up and make it so. For yourselves and your posterity, make it happen, or forever be forgotten by the heavens and the Earth.

[JoKeR2280]

I wonder what Adams would think about our current situations in the world and with this particular administration. Very powerful movie

[cmn1108]

I noticed something three times throughout the series, one of which occurs here around 4:08... historical paintings were slightly altered to resemble the actors more than their actual counterparts do. At 4:08 here, Adams' face has been changed to something closer to Giamatti's, Jefferson's to Dillane's, Franklin's to Wilkinson's, etc.

[cmn1108]

1:10, sorry.

[KurtangleTN]

Yeah I noticed that as well on the Washington picture, and the Adams picture as well.

[EVENFLOWTHOUGHTS]

He called it a "shin (i.e. legs and ankles)" piece, not a "shitty" piece.

[hanno21664]

ah ok yes a "shin" piece but regardless still a very powerful scene.

[hanno21664]

YES ADAMS!I love how Adams tells this painter the truth and how he hates the painting. "A shitty Piece!"and i love it when he said,"It is very bad history!"I LOVE IT!It seemed even them people were trying to rewrite history revisionist history, and Adams called him on it! I love it! As a history teacher, I deal with his day in and day out. Adams, was right then, the true history of the Am.Rev. as lost. A damn crime I say, we are loosing hisotry so fast and the truth as well.

Blessed Be.

[Manny535]

Regarding this film, which also has inaccuracies in it, what should we then consider? Not everything depicted was accurate. For instance, in reality when Adams saw the painting, his only comment was to point to a door in the background of the painting and state, "When I nominated George Washington of Virginia for Commander-in-Chief of the Continental Army, he took his hat and rushed out that door." The film seems to contradict itself here in this scene. I still liked the miniseries though.

[hanno21664]

hello enjoyed your post,yes what a great questions what should we consider?I DONT KNOW

I worked to the history department at ASU one prof.I contacted said he loved that part and chastized the painting,another prof. said he Adams loved it.yet a third prof. said Adams didnt even look at it.MY own research had lead me to believe that Adams hated it making multiple comments,one of which you stated,up until the day he died.what should we consider is best answered over dinner and sharing ideas.

[smoky90210]

The history of our time in these troubles of 2008 I can and cant see being lost to our inheriters of this nation of the United States.Inaccuracies are what turn history ,into legend,into myth.

[smoky90210]

Shin piece he said.

[hanno21664]

thank you my friend,

someone else had told me that, so I watched the DVD series, and I stand corrected. A shin piece, but it sure sounds like he said shitty doesnt it. I love that comment, I will say this, it is very bad history!" so true, I do like to wonder what would Adams say now about the country and politics. always wondered what his first thoughts are.

thank you

take care,

Blessed Be

[inkstersco]

@hanno21664

I thought he said "shin-piece", referring to the outdated legwear.

[mev186]

@inkstersco He did

[hanno21664]

@inkstersco hello friend yes he did after i posted this comment nearly 2 years ago i bought the 3 dvd box set, showed it to my high school students and everyone loved it.

if i may say i bet anything that if all the founding father were alive today they would be angry to no end of what is going on.

my grandfather told me once bfore he passed away, expressed that in this time during the founding father this was when people were represented and had a voice unlike now.

take care my friend